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Lip Man 1
07-31-2005, 09:09 PM
If Frank is concerned about his future Hall of Fame chances should he have to retire, he need not be worried. Here is an amazing list, with some of the greatest players of all time on it.

PLAYERS WITH 400+ HOME RUNS AND A BATTING CHAMPIONSHIP

Gary Sheffield
Billy Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
Stan Musial
Lou Gehrig
Ted Williams
Jimmy Foxx
Mickey Mantle
Frank Robinson
Willie Mays
Barry Bonds
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
FRANK THOMAS

The only players NOT in the Hall of Fame off this list is Sheffield and Bonds and Thomas because all were still playing this season.

Power and the ability to hit for high average, an amazing combination...and a rare one.

Lip

cbone
07-31-2005, 09:17 PM
Thanks for the perspective. I worry that, heaven forbid, Frank's injuries keep him from playing for the Sox again, he would finish his career somewhere else or retire. Those names show the kind of company Frank keeps stat wise.

Nellie_Fox
08-01-2005, 01:54 AM
Thanks Lip. Really good perspective on Big Frank. I know that he's done things few have done, but it's good to have specifics for the arguments.

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2005, 09:01 AM
If Frank is concerned about his future Hall of Fame chances should he have to retire, he need not be worried. Here is an amazing list, with some of the greatest players of all time on it.

PLAYERS WITH 400+ HOME RUNS AND A BATTING CHAMPIONSHIP

Gary Sheffield
Billy Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
Stan Musial
Lou Gehrig
Ted Williams
Jimmy Foxx
Mickey Mantle
Frank Robinson
Willie Mays
Barry Bonds
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
FRANK THOMAS

The only players NOT in the Hall of Fame off this list is Sheffield and Bonds and Thomas because all were still playing this season.

Power and the ability to hit for high average, an amazing combination...and a rare one.

LipTo me, the more impressive statistic is the number of seasons hitting over .300 with at least 20 HR, 100 RBI and 100 runs scored. Frank stands alone with 9.

ChicagoHoosier
08-01-2005, 09:20 AM
I wonder how much the writers, etc. look at these types of stats. Over the past few days, as all the papers have been reflecting on Frank's career, it seems there are lots of "combo stats" that make it a no-brainer that Frank makes the HOF. Yet, I still have this sinking feeling that if Frank were to retire after this season because of his ankle, he'd have a struggle to get in.

Any idea how much weight people put on the groups that Frank belongs to such as group in this thread?

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2005, 09:49 AM
I wonder how much the writers, etc. look at these types of stats. Over the past few days, as all the papers have been reflecting on Frank's career, it seems there are lots of "combo stats" that make it a no-brainer that Frank makes the HOF. Yet, I still have this sinking feeling that if Frank were to retire after this season because of his ankle, he'd have a struggle to get in.

Any idea how much weight people put on the groups that Frank belongs to such as group in this thread?I think they put a lot of weight on it. IMO, you compare a HOF candidate to other HOF players. One-dimensional players (e.g. players that just hit a lot of HR) generally have a harder time. Multidimensional players like Frank, who hit for average and power and who dominate for a significant period of time generally are looked on more favorably.

greasywheels121
08-01-2005, 10:45 AM
To me, the more impressive statistic is the number of seasons hitting over .300 with at least 20 HR, 100 RBI and 100 runs scored. Frank stands alone with 9.

100 BB's too.

Frank's the only one to do it 7 straight years too.

miker
08-01-2005, 11:37 AM
I wonder how much the writers, etc. look at these types of stats. Over the past few days, as all the papers have been reflecting on Frank's career, it seems there are lots of "combo stats" that make it a no-brainer that Frank makes the HOF. Yet, I still have this sinking feeling that if Frank were to retire after this season because of his ankle, he'd have a struggle to get in.

Any idea how much weight people put on the groups that Frank belongs to such as group in this thread?
:boston
"Frank who? If he didn't play for the Red Sox or Yankees, there's no way he's joining me in Cooperstown"

DaleJRFan
08-01-2005, 12:31 PM
To me, the more impressive statistic is the number of seasons hitting over .300 with at least 20 HR, 100 RBI and 100 runs scored. Frank stands alone with 9.

Geez. That is impressive. Not even Mantle can say that...

There are some really fun combos you can come up with as well as some single season stuff, too...

Plus, Frank is the only player with 9 seasons of 20 HR, 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs scored... Frank has 8 seasons of 20 HR 100 RBI and 300+ BA. Yikes. Greatest hitter of the 90s? It's not even a question.

10 seasons of 100+ walks.
8 seasons of 35+ homeruns.
11 seasons of 24+ homeruns.
10 seasons of 100+ RBI.
7 seasons of 300+ total bases.
10 seasons of 250+ total bases.
10 seasons of .400+ OBP.
10 seasons of .500+ SLG.
6 seasons of .600+ SLG.
12 seasons of 25+ doubles.
9 seasons of 30+ doubles.
12 seasons of 150+ hits.

I could go on... his numbers are ridiculous. Hopefully with Palmiero getting busted today, his light will shine even brighter for the HoF voters...

#5 all time in OBP.
#17 all time in walks.
#29 all time in homeruns.
#73 all time in total bases.
#77 all time in doubles.
#84 all time in batting average.
#98 all time in runs scored.

the gooch
08-01-2005, 03:47 PM
Hopefully with Palmiero getting busted today, his light will shine even brighter for the HoF voters...
i disagree, palmeiro has been praised for being perceived as 'clean' by many. i think this raises doubts on those who are/were commonly thought to be sure-fire drug-free guys. this hurts the entire generation of baseball players trying to get in, even if it is obvious that guys like frank never took anything bad.

in my opinion, he probably bought the wrong supplement at GNC. anybody who has accomplished what he has would never chance it at this stage of his career.

NardiWasHere
08-02-2005, 09:05 AM
in my opinion, he probably bought the wrong supplement at GNC. anybody who has accomplished what he has would never chance it at this stage of his career.


You've got to be kidding me.

Vernam
08-02-2005, 09:45 AM
If Frank is concerned about his future Hall of Fame chances should he have to retire, he need not be worried. Lip, thanks for the info, and congrats on getting quoted by Ron Rappoport in today's Sun-Times. See http://tinyurl.com/d4rly.

If any of the obvious steroid abusers get voted in before Frank, I will be majorly p*ssed.

VC

Ol' No. 2
08-02-2005, 09:49 AM
i disagree, palmeiro has been praised for being perceived as 'clean' by many. i think this raises doubts on those who are/were commonly thought to be sure-fire drug-free guys. this hurts the entire generation of baseball players trying to get in, even if it is obvious that guys like frank never took anything bad.

in my opinion, he probably bought the wrong supplement at GNC. anybody who has accomplished what he has would never chance it at this stage of his career.Do you understand what's on the banned substances list? They're from the Code of Federal Regulations' Schedule of Controlled Substances (Schedules II and III). They're ILLEGAL to sell within the United States without a prescription.

duke of dorwood
08-02-2005, 10:24 AM
I just worry about writers with an axe to grind against the DH role-ALL the right numbers are there, including MVP's-he should be a cinch.

gobears1987
08-02-2005, 11:21 AM
His greatest stat, and it tells something about the era, is the number os steroids taken. ZERO

hawkjt
08-02-2005, 12:02 PM
My # 1 stat for frank? According to MLB.com stats he is the #1 right-handed hitter in on base % of all time!!! 5th overall with Babe,Gerhig,Teddy ballgame,and Barry Bonds ahead of him. What is the object of the hitter when he goes to the plate? To get on base!!! Frank is the best right-handed hitter among tens of thousands of hitters in over 100 years. Thats good.

gaelhound
08-02-2005, 10:50 PM
i disagree, palmeiro has been praised for being perceived as 'clean' by many. i think this raises doubts on those who are/were commonly thought to be sure-fire drug-free guys. this hurts the entire generation of baseball players trying to get in, even if it is obvious that guys like frank never took anything bad.

in my opinion, he probably bought the wrong supplement at GNC. anybody who has accomplished what he has would never chance it at this stage of his career.
Once a cub, always a loser!:mad:

ode to veeck
08-03-2005, 11:07 AM
Checking on Frank's position on all time OBP, I note again the discrepancies between mlb.com and baseball-reference.com, the later showing Frank as overall #14 and #2 for for a righthanded batter (behind Rogers Hornsby) whereas mlb.com shows him #5 overall and ahead of "Rajah". It can't be just that ref.com hasn't updated for 2005 yet, as Hornsby is .434 on ref.com and .424 on mlb.com.

Can someone remind me the source for discrepancies between these two references?

here's the links:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/OBP_career.shtml

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/leaders.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&statType=1&sortByStat=OBP&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame2=0

Also note Frank is just ahead of Jimmie Foxx, another righty on both lists, but also former Sox greats, Eddie Collins and Joe Jackson (both batted left). Frank, Eddie, and Joe have some remarkable combined BA, OBP, and power numbers that help them stand out against all hitters of all time, not just the best historical Sox.

Though Joe and Eddie's HR numbers are low by today's standards, they were among league leaders in the years before 1920, when HRs were much rarer. On the other hand, I don't know but would wager Eddie and Joe didn't totally crush some balls the way we've seen Frank do it over the years, like the one he pounded into the Oakland upper deck during the recent fourth of July weekend.

PaulDrake
08-03-2005, 11:12 AM
i disagree, palmeiro has been praised for being perceived as 'clean' by many. i think this raises doubts on those who are/were commonly thought to be sure-fire drug-free guys. this hurts the entire generation of baseball players trying to get in, even if it is obvious that guys like frank never took anything bad.

in my opinion, he probably bought the wrong supplement at GNC. anybody who has accomplished what he has would never chance it at this stage of his career. I've always liked Palmeiro and would like to believe what you say is true, but initial reports if confirmed would indicate that is was a lot more than just the "wrong supplement" purchased at GNC.

hawkjt
08-03-2005, 03:25 PM
Ode to veeck; the differance is that mlb.com can not verify the accuracy of oba for players prior to 1890 or 1900 (can't remember which) . But bottom line is that the records were a little spotty in the early days. I am going with mlb on franks standing . He is awesome.