PDA

View Full Version : Stark: Sox now, after ramirez deal dead, aggressively pursuing both Huff and Baez


soxfan123
07-30-2005, 07:10 PM
Per ESPNEWS. Me likey.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 07:12 PM
Per ESPNEWS. Me likey.

What color of Sox are they talking about?

soxfan123
07-30-2005, 07:12 PM
The White kind. My apologies.

SABRSox
07-30-2005, 07:13 PM
Per ESPNEWS. Me likey.

Can this get done without giving up McCarthy? I know LaMarr has said he will require a team's best prospect any trade, but is TB at the point now where they may take what they can get? I don't know, just throwing that out there for discussion.

soxfan123
07-30-2005, 07:14 PM
Can this get done without giving up McCarthy? I know LaMarr has said he will require a team's best prospect any trade, but is TB at the point now where they may take what they can get? I don't know, just throwing that out there for discussion.

Stark said that it most certainly includes BMAC. i would take it. Remember: 1917.

Unregistered
07-30-2005, 07:15 PM
Stark said that it most certainly includes BMAC. i would take it. Remember: 1917.Something else to remember: Scott Ruffcorn.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 07:17 PM
Stark said that it most certainly includes BMAC. i would take it. Remember: 1917.

So would I. As long as we still end up with five starters after the trade, I'm all for it. Then, having our entire rotation signed through 2006, it makes it easier to pursue upgrades to the rotation over the offseason when we may not have to give anyone up at all.

MRKARNO
07-30-2005, 07:17 PM
Something else to remember: Scott Ruffcorn.

Another thing: flyball pitchers don't tend to do well at US Cellular Field.

SABRSox
07-30-2005, 07:18 PM
Stark said that it most certainly includes BMAC. i would take it. Remember: 1917.

I'm all for giving up BMac if it improves our chances at winning a WS, don't get me wrong. But if TB is backed against a wall, and I'm thinking that they may need to unload Huff and Baez more than we need to acquire them, we should use that sort of leverage.

samram
07-30-2005, 07:19 PM
Stark said that it most certainly includes BMAC. i would take it. Remember: 1917.

Hell, they can have the whole damn Charlotte roster, except for Anderson, and if they make Crawford part of the deal, well, they can have him too.:cool:

Iguana775
07-30-2005, 07:26 PM
Another thing: flyball pitchers don't tend to do well at US Cellular Field.

Isnt Garcia a fly ball pitcher? I though I read that when we first got him last year.

Jjav829
07-30-2005, 07:26 PM
I'm all for giving up BMac if it improves our chances at winning a WS, don't get me wrong. But if TB is backed against a wall, and I'm thinking that they may need to unload Huff and Baez more than we need to acquire them, we should use that sort of leverage.

Keep in mind we're not bidding against ourselves here. Boston is still believed to have interest in Huff, regardless of whether they trade Manny or not. The Cardinals want Huff. The Astros want Huff. The Twins have interest in him. There are a few other teams that could have interest. It's not like the Sox can just make an offer and force the Devil Rays to take it or keep Huff. If the Rays don't like the offer, there are at least several other teams that they can talk to about Huff.

munchman33
07-30-2005, 07:27 PM
I'm all for giving up BMac if it improves our chances at winning a WS, don't get me wrong. But if TB is backed against a wall, and I'm thinking that they may need to unload Huff and Baez more than we need to acquire them, we should use that sort of leverage.

Tampa is under no pressure to unload these guys. Neither is a free agent next year. Yes, Tampa will be under new ownership next year, so getting young talent is a must. But they still can wait until the offseason to do so.

SABRSox
07-30-2005, 07:29 PM
Keep in mind we're not bidding against ourselves here. Boston is still believed to have interest in Huff, regardless of whether they trade Manny or not. The Cardinals want Huff. The Astros want Huff. The Twins have interest in him. There are a few other teams that could have interest. It's not like the Sox can just make an offer and force the Devil Rays to take it or keep Huff. If they don't like the offer, there are at least several other teams that can talk to about Huff.

That's a good point. It seems right now that, like Burnett on the pitching side, Huff is the first domino that needs to fall in order for the rest of the trades to happen.

A_ROW33
07-30-2005, 07:34 PM
Isnt Garcia a fly ball pitcher? I though I read that when we first got him last year.

And all but one of his loses have been at US cellular field.

samram
07-30-2005, 07:34 PM
That's a good point. It seems right now that, like Burnett on the pitching side, Huff is the first domino that needs to fall in order for the rest of the trades to happen.

That could be true, but I think Burnett's not going anywhere. Willis actually showed he could get someone out in the second half the other night and Beckett looked good in his fist outing off the DL. They may as well see what happens this year, as much as I would like to see AJ on the south side.

SoxyStu
07-30-2005, 07:35 PM
Isnt Garcia a fly ball pitcher? I though I read that when we first got him last year.

I think Freddy does better on the road. Only 2 of his 10 wins are at home? 3 of his 4 losses are at the Cell? Is that correct?

Edit: A-Row beat me to it! :D

Erik The Red
07-30-2005, 07:37 PM
That could be true, but I think Burnett's not going anywhere. Willis actually showed he could get someone out in the second half the other night and Beckett looked good in his fist outing off the DL. They may as well see what happens this year, as much as I would like to see AJ on the south side.
I'd rather see Burnett stay on the Fish than end up in Boston.

MRKARNO
07-30-2005, 07:38 PM
Isnt Garcia a fly ball pitcher? I though I read that when we first got him last year.

1. Garcia is a flyball pitcher, but not as much as he used to be. Since he put on a White Sox uniform, his G/F ratio has gone from about 1 to about 1.4.

2. His road ERA is nearly two runs better than his home ERA.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 07:41 PM
That's a good point. It seems right now that, like Burnett on the pitching side, Huff is the first domino that needs to fall in order for the rest of the trades to happen.

You may be right, but the bad thing is that if Tampa keeps holding out, perhaps for an alteration of the Ramirez deal which they may feel benefits them the best, a deal isn't going to be done until the last minute. If that's the case, this doesn't work out for us as I think we need to make two or maybe even three moves to accomplish what I feel we need to accomplish.

SABRSox
07-30-2005, 07:50 PM
You may be right, but the bad thing is that if Tampa keeps holding out, perhaps for an alteration of the Ramirez deal which they may feel benefits them the best, a deal isn't going to be done until the last minute. If that's the case, this doesn't work out for us as I think we need to make two or maybe even three moves to accomplish what I feel we need to accomplish.

I don't know if that's going to happen. There is just so little impact talent this year that's available, and teams want top dollar for anything, that the deadline itsself is the only thing that will make trades happen. I get the feeling that come this time tomorrow, we're talking about a team that needed to make a trade but ended up running out of time and got nothing. Hopefully that's not the case with the Sox.

I think we could use Huff. Baez, meh... he wouldn't hurt, but it would be nice if we could flip him to another team for another piece.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 07:57 PM
I get the feeling that come this time tomorrow, we're talking about a team that needed to make a trade but ended up running out of time and got nothing. Hopefully that's not the case with the Sox.

I think we could use Huff. Baez, meh... he wouldn't hurt, but it would be nice if we could flip him to another team for another piece.

I hope not.

I'd like to see a deal for a big bat, preferrably LH, another guy in the pen, and a utility player. I think those three moves dramatically improve our club, even if we pick up say Huff, one of Baez/Eyre, and one of Cintron/Mackowiak/Feliz. We wouldn't be gaining a superstar player so to speak, but we would be eliminating some of our few weaknesses for better players. It makes us more of a complete team.

EDIT: Baez/Eyre removes Vizcaino, Huff removes Gload or Timo, and Cintron/Mackoviak/Feliz removes Willie.

CYGarland20
07-30-2005, 08:13 PM
That could be true, but I think Burnett's not going anywhere. Willis actually showed he could get someone out in the second half the other night and Beckett looked good in his fist outing off the DL. They may as well see what happens this year, as much as I would like to see AJ on the south side.The fact that Willis and Beckett both looked good might actually be a good thing for us, If the Marlins think they can count on those 2 down the stretch, and if they are able to acquire Redman from Pittsburgh, I think they very well may still deal Burnett. JC-Marte-Borchard 4 Burnett??

Tragg
07-30-2005, 08:20 PM
Baez and Eyre only marginally help this team (Viz's NL stats were better than Eyre's) - both are middle relief quality pitchers, as is Viz, who, since we know him so intimately, we think he's worse than he is; more often than not, Viz pitches well for us - that's about the most you can expect from the bottom of the bullpen. Baez has SEVEN blown saves, a high number, which indicates he routinely has poor games. Eyre's states are NL inflated and he is carefully used in SF. Certainly shouldn't give much up for either of those guys. Only a marginal upgrad with those 2 pitchers.

All of the "ESPN experts" say that TB's GM has a ridiculously inflated idea of what his players are worth. If he was really holding out for 4 top prospects for BAez and Huff, then ESPN would be right.

I'd like to get Huff if the price is right, but TB, like every other bad team, is bad for a reason - no pitching. They'd probably demand our one and only pitching prospect.

I want Mags back
07-30-2005, 08:37 PM
What color of Sox are they talking about?

Do we really need to explain which Sox we are talking about on our own site. If we wanted to talk and the RED sox we'd say Red Sox, or BoSox, or Carmines, or ****Heads, but we don't put just Sox

shoota
07-30-2005, 08:44 PM
Why don't the Sox trade for Brian Giles. IIRC, KW was interested in trading for him a couple of years ago. Once a player gets on KW's radar, he stays there for years.

Giles is a left-handed bat that would slide nicely into the Sox's DH position.

If we're going to give up top-shelf prospects, might as well be for a player who can be a difference maker.

EDIT: Just realized that Giles isn't playing for Pittsburgh anymore, and is not going to be traded from a legitimate playoff contender.

munchman33
07-30-2005, 08:44 PM
Do we really need to explain which Sox we are talking about on our own site. If we wanted to talk and the RED sox we'd say Red Sox, or BoSox, or Carmines, or ****Heads, but we don't put just Sox

I suggest we simply from now on refer to them as the Red Cubs. That way, any form of "Sox" from now on will suggest our beloved pale hose.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 09:02 PM
Do we really need to explain which Sox we are talking about on our own site. If we wanted to talk and the RED sox we'd say Red Sox, or BoSox, or Carmines, or ****Heads, but we don't put just Sox

The title was this: Stark: Sox now, after ramirez deal dead, aggressively pursuing both Huff and Baez

This is coming from an ESPN guy, who refers to the 'Sox' as the Red Sox, and us as the White Sox. The Red Sox were (obviously) in the Ramirez talks, meaning it could very well have been to point out that now that the deal is dead, the Red Sox were looking to acquire Huff and Baez in a seperate deal. A thread like this would be posted in this section since a Huff/Baez to Red Sox deal would take away potential targets from us.

Clarification is necessary when talking about two different types of Sox.

BTW, Maggs isn't coming back either.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2005, 09:10 PM
As the Mets and Red Sox talked with each other, the Devil Rays turned their attention to other deals. According to executives of two teams that spoke with the Devil Rays and White Sox, those two teams were talking about a major deal that would send both Danys Baez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6395) and Aubrey Huff (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6545) to Chicago in exchange for a package of three or four top prospects.
SOURCE
(http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374)


Uh oh. Now Kenny, don't go giving away the farm or anything. I'm fine with giving away McCarthy, and he'll be a good one, but Anderson/Sweeney/Young? Ehhh, not for Huff and Baez. Huff is worth McCarthy and maybe somebody else, but not two top prospects. And no way are both worth four top prospects. No thanks.

MRKARNO
07-30-2005, 09:12 PM
SOURCE
(http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374)


Uh oh. Now Kenny, don't go giving away the farm or anything. I'm fine with giving away McCarthy, and he'll be a good one, but Anderson/Sweeney/Young? Ehhh, not for Huff and Baez. Huff is worth McCarthy and maybe somebody else, but not two top prospects. And no way are both worth four top prospects. No thanks.

Does Borchard count as a top prospect?

Chisox003
07-30-2005, 09:15 PM
Does Borchard count as a top prospect?

Deep Pink/Teal?

No way does Borchard count....Especially in this trade

Tampa has a ridiculous young core of Outfielders: Crawford, Baldelli, Gomes, Gathright, and Delmon Young.....

Wow...Add Anderson/Sweeney to that, it looks even better

Should be interesting

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2005, 09:15 PM
Does Borchard count as a top prospect?

:LTP:

"Yeah man! I've still got it!"


He'd be a throw-in type guy, unfortunately, even though he's turning his season around.

Jjav829
07-30-2005, 09:15 PM
SOURCE
(http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2120374)


Uh oh. Now Kenny, don't go giving away the farm or anything. I'm fine with giving away McCarthy, and he'll be a good one, but Anderson/Sweeney/Young? Ehhh, not for Huff and Baez. Huff is worth McCarthy and maybe somebody else, but not two top prospects. And no way are both worth four top prospects. No thanks.

Well, hopefully they are both concentrating on that deal. Maybe they'll get something done tonight. I'm waiting for Stark's phone to ring again. :smile:

rowand33
07-30-2005, 09:22 PM
I would give BMac, Sweeney/Anderson, and a throw in for Huff alone. Baez is just a bonus.

We're gonna get Huff and I'll tell you why:

because I've loved this guy since he came up. I've been a big Huff fan and I draft him every year on my fantasy team.

I've also loved Jose Contreras ever since he entered the league. Who came over last deadline?

Me and KW scout a like :D:

Tragg
07-30-2005, 09:29 PM
I would give BMac, Sweeney/Anderson, and a throw in for Huff alone. Baez is just a bonus.



We may do it, but that's a real high price for what is an above average hitter. That's essentially the Wagner price. Should be one major prospect (one of whom is not McCarthy) and a couple of lesser prospects.
Huff is a good player but not an impact player - don't give up 2 toppers much less some throw ins for a player of that caliber.

That's what you give up for Manny Ramirez (and pay only 1/2 the contract; if you pay the whole thing, you get him for free).

Chisox003
07-30-2005, 09:31 PM
I would give BMac, Sweeney/Anderson, and a throw in for Huff alone. Baez is just a bonus.

We're gonna get Huff and I'll tell you why:

because I've loved this guy since he came up. I've been a big Huff fan and I draft him every year on my fantasy team.

I've also loved Jose Contreras ever since he entered the league. Who came over last deadline?

Me and KW scout a like :D:

Im the same way with Huff....

I posted in the other thread that I was like this with AJ Pierzynski and David Eckstein too (I took Pierzynski in the 7th round of my draft in 2003 :o: )

The possibility of Huff and AJ playing on the Sox has me pretty excited....Makes me think that this has to be the year if moves like this have been made

:gulp:

rowand33
07-30-2005, 09:43 PM
We may do it, but that's a real high price for what is an above average hitter. That's essentially the Wagner price. Should be one major prospect (one of whom is not McCarthy) and a couple of lesser prospects.
Huff is a good player but not an impact player - don't give up 2 toppers much less some throw ins for a player of that caliber.

That's what you give up for Manny Ramirez (and pay only 1/2 the contract; if you pay the whole thing, you get him for free).

I think Huff is the sort of guy that is sort of obscure down in Tampa Bay. Put him on a team like the BoSox or Yankees and the baseball tonight would be all over him every night.

30 HR, 100 RBI guy.

This guy is a big bat, IMO.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 09:52 PM
I think Huff is the sort of guy that is sort of obscure down in Tampa Bay. Put him on a team like the BoSox or Yankees and the baseball tonight would be all over him every night.

30 HR, 100 RBI guy.

This guy is a big bat, IMO.

No 'IMO' necessary. It's a fact.

Keny's going to get this done, and is going to ship Baez to the Phils for Wagner. I kind of find it strange that we would deal top 4 prospects for Huff and Baez, but if say 3 were going to Tampa and one was going to the Phils along with Baez for Wagner, Kenny will have done a nice job.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2005, 09:53 PM
I think Huff is the sort of guy that is sort of obscure down in Tampa Bay. Put him on a team like the BoSox or Yankees and the baseball tonight would be all over him every night.

30 HR, 100 RBI guy.

This guy is a big bat, IMO.
He is a good hitter, but Im not sold on him being great. Look at his OBP. Its .329 this year and .345 for his career. His OBP this year is much lower than Konerko's (.360), and his career one is right where Paulie's is. His average is higher than Konerko's, but he doesn't take walks.

samram
07-30-2005, 09:54 PM
No 'IMO' necessary. It's a fact.

Keny's going to get this done, and is going to ship Baez to the Phils for Wagner. I kind of find it strange that we would deal top 4 prospects for Huff and Baez, but if say 3 were going to Tampa and one was going to the Phils along with Baez for Wagner, Kenny will have done a nice job.

Yeah, if it takes four prospects to get Huff and Wagner, that's a teriffic job. Two pitching prospects, one being McCarthy, and two position players, one of which would be one of the AA outfielders, would probably be the price, and that's fine by me.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2005, 09:55 PM
No 'IMO' necessary. It's a fact.

Keny's going to get this done, and is going to ship Baez to the Phils for Wagner. I kind of find it strange that we would deal top 4 prospects for Huff and Baez, but if say 3 were going to Tampa and one was going to the Phils along with Baez for Wagner, Kenny will have done a nice job.
If we aquired Huff and Wagner, I would be THRILLED. About the thing that could make it better is if we got Robby Mac and sent Willie to Charlotte or Siberia.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 09:55 PM
Kenny's going to make a big deal and then we're going to stroll into Boston on the 12th and kick their asses with all the players we took away from them.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 09:57 PM
If we aquired Huff and Wagner, I would be THRILLED. About the thing that could make it better is if we got Robby Mac and sent Willie to Charlotte or Siberia.

Obviously Charlotte hasn't helped him.

Maybe he can learn how to bunt in Siberia?

samram
07-30-2005, 09:57 PM
He is a good hitter, but Im not sold on him being great. Look at his OBP. Its .329 this year and .345 for his career. His OBP this year is much lower than Konerko's (.360), and his career one is right where Paulie's is. His average is higher than Konerko's, but he doesn't take walks.

Well, the thing about adding Huff would be that he would add a lot of flexibility for Ozzie. Against a tough righty, Gload, Everett, and Huff could all play and give PK, Dye and Rowand a break without Timo being in the lineup. Damn, that alone makes it worth it.:smile:

rowand33
07-30-2005, 10:00 PM
He is a good hitter, but Im not sold on him being great. Look at his OBP. Its .329 this year and .345 for his career. His OBP this year is much lower than Konerko's (.360), and his career one is right where Paulie's is. His average is higher than Konerko's, but he doesn't take walks.

he's having a subpar year by his standards, but let's be serious now... his OBP the from 2002-2004 was .364, .367, and .360 respectively.

let's not insult Aubrey Huff, here :smile: .

the career OBP is only brought down because of 2001.

his OBP is .397 since the break.

if you want to look at career stats, here are some interesting ones:

career pre all star break:
.271 avg, .332 OBP, .439 SLG
career post break:
.313 avg .360 OBP .531 SLG

2003 post break:
.320 AVG .374 OBP .576 SLG

last year post break:
.331 AVG .386 OBP .579 SLG

this year post break:
.352 AVG .397 OBP .722 SLG

Huff is a total second half player.

what half is it? :smile:

I'd kill to have this guy. He'd be huge for us.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2005, 10:01 PM
Well, the thing about adding Huff would be that he would add a lot of flexibility for Ozzie. Against a tough righty, Gload, Everett, and Huff could all play and give PK, Dye and Rowand a break without Timo being in the lineup. Damn, that alone makes it worth it.:smile:
Ok, you got my hopes up now. I want Huff. If KW doesn't get him, I am gonna smash things.

nedlug
07-30-2005, 10:04 PM
Obviously Charlotte hasn't helped him.

Maybe he can learn how to bunt in Siberia?

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6798.jpg

"No way, man... too damn cold in Siberia! We're gonna get someone though, I just know we're gonna get someone..."

nedlug
07-30-2005, 10:06 PM
\I'd kill to have this guy. He'd be huge for us.

If you killed Timo, KW would almost HAVE to make the trade...

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-30-2005, 10:06 PM
This is one rumor that really gets me excited. :wired: I don't know if I'll be able to sleep tonight with all the suspense of the deadline coming up tomorrow. Usually the Sox make their big moves well before the deadline, with the exception of the Contreras deal last year. This is the first time in a while where I'm expecting a big trade for the Sox before the deadline. Go get 'em, KW!

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 10:12 PM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6798.jpg

"No way, man... too damn cold in Siberia! We're gonna get someone though, I just know we're gonna get someone..."

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6798.jpg
"...someone who can bunt runners over, hit to the right side of the field, take walks, hit a sac fly, steal bases, someone who knows when to call off the right fielder and when not too... Oh, sup Rock? You still thinkin' about making me the new 1st base coach?"

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/pressbox/photos/headshots_players_coaches/120891_90x135.jpg
"Shut yo' mouff Willie."

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6798.jpg
"Yo, Joey! I was thinkin' about..."

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/pressbox/photos/headshots_players_coaches/112664_90x135.jpg "No hablo ingles."

fquaye149
07-30-2005, 11:43 PM
I think Freddy does better on the road. Only 2 of his 10 wins are at home? 3 of his 4 losses are at the Cell? Is that correct?

Edit: A-Row beat me to it! :D

Freddy is also an established major league talent...not a minor leaguer whom we are evaluating and making predictions how he might fare against big league pitching.

We knew Freddy was a flyball pitcher who also had a good out pitch repertoire. It has yet to be established that BMAC can get major leaguers out without the flyball. (that is, over a season, not 3 or 4 spot starts)

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 11:53 PM
Freddy is also an established major league talent...not a minor leaguer whom we are evaluating and making predictions how he might fare against big league pitching.

We knew Freddy was a flyball pitcher who also had a good out pitch repertoire. It has yet to be established that BMAC can get major leaguers out without the flyball. (that is, over a season, not 3 or 4 spot starts)

Yep.

I'd love to have McCarthy around, but the realization is this:

The White Sox, through 2006-07, are already structed to be a veteran team meant to go to the playoffs. It's not impossible, but it is unlikely, that McCarthy would be able to step up say next year and get ML hitters out right away. He's 22 IIRC, so he'll probably need more time to develop. However, as we have already seen with Willie Harris, this organization is not about to develop significant pieces at the ML level. We've only seen that in the bullpen this year with Cotts and Jenks. If one of them or both had failed we would have picked someone else up already as it is a lot easier to pick up a decent bullpen guy than a decent starter.

Tragg
07-31-2005, 12:05 AM
30 HR, 100 RBI guy.

This guy is a big bat, IMO.

30/100 is not that uncommon for a clean-up hitter. Konerko, Carlos Lee, Jermaine Dye (were he batting 4th this year; he'll get the 30 part of it).
Would you trade two top prospects for Paul Konerko or Jermaine Dye?

Huff is having a down year and isn't very good in the field. I hope we get him, but not for the price yall are willing to pay: two top prospects plus more.

DaleJRFan
07-31-2005, 12:11 AM
30 HR, 100 RBI guy.

This guy is a big bat, IMO.

Huff is a star down there. He COULD BE a bigger one here. Put him in the #5 or #6 spot in the lineup, and at the Cell, and we'll see those #s. Plus, Sox could let Pauly go to FA next year and spend that $$ on Jon Garland.

Huff is a GREAT player playing on a bad team with no one in the lineup to give him a lot of RBI chances, or to protect him in the lineup...He goes to the Sox, he'll be a big bright spot on the south side...

YEEESS.

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 12:12 AM
30/100 is not that uncommon for a clean-up hitter. Konerko, Carlos Lee, Jermaine Dye (were he batting 4th this year; he'll get the 30 part of it).
Would you trade two top prospects for Paul Konerko or Jermaine Dye?

Huff is having a down year and isn't very good in the field. I hope we get him, but not for the price yall are willing to pay: two top prospects plus more.

Ehhh.... Paulie if we had Timo starting at 1B. I'd take that upgrade for a postseason run.

For Dye? Hell yeah. He's cheap, can play defense, produces, and has a great arm. In fact, if I were a team looking for a RF I would give up more for Dye than Huff.

Huff is worth the prospects because he is what we need.

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 12:12 AM
30/100 is not that uncommon for a clean-up hitter. Konerko, Carlos Lee, Jermaine Dye (were he batting 4th this year; he'll get the 30 part of it).
Would you trade two top prospects for Paul Konerko or Jermaine Dye?

Huff is having a down year and isn't very good in the field. I hope we get him, but not for the price yall are willing to pay: two top prospects plus more.

THANK YOU! I was going to post the same thing: would you trade Brandon McCarthy and Ryan Sweeney for PK or Dye? Hanley Ramirez and Shoppach for Dye/PK? Nope, not unless the market is horribly skewed in favor of the seller. I think KW will make a snap move tomorrow and lock up Huff/Baez for far less than four top prospects. That is absolutely absurd. Of course, this is the year KW is going to try for it all, but you still don't give away top minor league talent for a good bat and an overrated "closer."

EDIT: KW likes to fly under the radar; have we heard anything about Griffey lately? *Hint hint perhaps?

Tragg
07-31-2005, 12:13 AM
Yep.

I'd love to have McCarthy around, but the realization is this:

The White Sox, through 2006-07, are already structed to be a veteran team meant to go to the playoffs. It's not impossible, but it is unlikely, that McCarthy would be able to step up say next year and get ML hitters out right away. He's 22 IIRC, so he'll probably need more time to develop. However, as we have already seen with Willie Harris, this organization is not about to develop significant pieces at the ML level. We've only seen that in the bullpen this year with Cotts and Jenks. If one of them or both had failed we would have picked someone else up already as it is a lot easier to pick up a decent bullpen guy than a decent starter.
McCarthy would be a fine 5th starter for next year, and more. Out of 5 starts this year, I think 2 were quality. Hell, if we got that 40% ratio last year, we probably would have made the playoffs. He's done damn well for a young guy.
Plus, we're set up for longer than 2 years. Key players (although they are due raises) are in the prime of their careers: MB, JG, FG, Iguchi, Pods. The Cubans roll off after another year. If we can avoid paying $4 mill plus for a 5th starter, we're that much ahead of the game. Dye.rolls off in 2 years. Konerko rolls off this year We have 3 stud outfield prospects, one of whom ought to be able to play soon.
McCarthy and one of these outfielders are absolutely key to all of this. It will give us cash and trade bait to upgrade several other positions, like SS, 1B, DH and soon we'll have to decide whether Crede is in the long-0erm plans.
We're going to have a good team for a long time. Development of the youngsters are absolutely key.

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 12:14 AM
Development of the youngsters are absolutely key.

Unless you want to end up like the 2005 NYY :smile:

Chisox003
07-31-2005, 12:16 AM
THANK YOU! I was going to post the same thing: would you trade Brandon McCarthy and Ryan Sweeney for PK or Dye? Hanley Ramirez and Shoppach for Dye/PK? Nope, not unless the market is horribly skewed in favor of the seller. I think KW will make a snap move tomorrow and lock up Huff/Baez for far less than four top prospects. That is absolutely absurd. Of course, this is the year KW is going to try for it all, but you still don't give away top minor league talent for a good bat and an overrated "closer."

Baez wouldnt close for us, but he'd be another reliable setup man...

Huff is a .300 hitter, unlike Dye/Konerko (Yes, I know he's hitting .270 right now, but check back in September)

I agree, I dont think they are worth 4 top prospects, but theyre worth a whole lot, especially since we need a big bat, and from the lefthand side

Plus Huff could (not that you'd want him to...) play 3rd and the OF, but I'd expect him to DH and stick to 1B

This move would be huge....IF it happens

Tragg
07-31-2005, 12:16 AM
THANK YOU! I was going to post the same thing: would you trade Brandon McCarthy and Ryan Sweeney for PK or Dye? Hanley Ramirez and Shoppach for Dye/PK? Nope, not unless the market is horribly skewed in favor of the seller. I think KW will make a snap move tomorrow and lock up Huff/Baez for far less than four top prospects.

EDIT: KW likes to fly under the radar; have we heard anything about Griffey lately? *Hint hint perhaps?
Well I would hope so, because Baez is worth, at most a middle and low prospect.
So "far less" doesn't provide me much comfort. ONE top prospect and a couple of mid prospects and a low prospect should get that (huff and baez) done.

I'm not sure why we want Baez anyway. 7 blown saves suggests he isn't overly reliable.

And Huff is NOT a .300 hitter THIS YEAR. He's batting .267 . He's a career .290 hitter with a .345 OBP. Konerko is a career .279 hitter with an OBP of .346. Not a lot of difference.

We need a LH stick, but the estimates of his value is yet another case of "the player is always better in the other uniform."

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 12:17 AM
Well I would hope so, because Baez is worth, at most a middle and low prospect.
So "far less" doesn't provide me much comfort. ONE top prospect and a couple of mid prospects and a low prospect should get that done.

I'm not sure why we want Baez anyway.

I agree completely, I was just providing the rumor that LaMar was looking for 3-4 top CWS prospects for Huff and Baez.

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 12:18 AM
THANK YOU! I was going to post the same thing: would you trade Brandon McCarthy and Ryan Sweeney for PK or Dye? Hanley Ramirez and Shoppach for Dye/PK? Nope, not unless the market is horribly skewed in favor of the seller. I think KW will make a snap move tomorrow and lock up Huff/Baez for far less than four top prospects. That is absolutely absurd. Of course, this is the year KW is going to try for it all, but you still don't give away top minor league talent for a good bat and an overrated "closer."

Okay, so you probably want the Sox to go deep into the playoffs, right?

And you probably want the Sox to go deep into the playoffs next year, right?

Well, that means that you will have to put major-league players out there. You're not going to get major league players for garbage, so you have to give up something good. There's no point in holding on to a prospect if you know you're not going to need him for a couple years.

I'm going to highlight the next sentence because I think it is very important:

People seem to forget that we will have a draft next year and we will have another 1st round pick to go nuts over.

SomebodyToldMe
07-31-2005, 12:20 AM
EDIT: KW likes to fly under the radar; have we heard anything about Griffey lately? *Hint hint perhaps?

Seriously, if that were to happen, I really wouldn't be surprised.

gr8mexico
07-31-2005, 12:20 AM
Well I would hope so, because Baez is worth, at most a middle and low prospect.
So "far less" doesn't provide me much comfort. ONE top prospect and a couple of mid prospects and a low prospect should get that done.

I'm not sure why we want Baez anyway. I think the Phillies might be interested in Baez and the Sox really want Wagner.The Sox might be able to ship Viscaino and Baez to Phillie for Wagner and the Sox would keep Huff. I think Huff is very under rated and if the Sox get it would be a steal. Huff would put up huge Numbers and would be very happy playing for a team that has a chance to win and have fun.

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 12:22 AM
People seem to forget that we will have a draft next year and we will have another 1st round pick to go nuts over.

That pick, like Lance Broadway, will not be ready for 2-3 years. Brian Anderson is major-league ready and could start in the OF next year, Ryan Sweeney is 2007-ready and has all-star potential, and Chris Young is a toolsy outfielder with huge power. Of course I'd like to get far in the playoffs, and of course a world series>everything else. But you NEVER want to overpay, and if, god forbid, the white sox do not win the world series this year (or even if they do), people will look towards next year. Unless the Sox are to turn into the Spankyees, they need to keep the Brian Andersons and Gio Gonzalezes around for a little while to take over in a couple of years.

Chisox003
07-31-2005, 12:27 AM
That pick, like Lance Broadway, will not be ready for 2-3 years. Brian Anderson is major-league ready and could start in the OF next year, Ryan Sweeney is 2007-ready and has all-star potential, and Chris Young is a toolsy outfielder with huge power. Of course I'd like to get far in the playoffs, and of course a world series>everything else. But you NEVER want to overpay, and if, god forbid, the white sox do not win the world series this year (or even if they do), people will look towards next year. Unless the Sox are to turn into the Spankyees, they need to keep the Brian Andersons and Gio Gonzalezes around for a little while to take over in a couple of years.

I see where youre coming from, but at this point, all these guys have is potential....

Prospects are prospects, and guys like Huff have been good for years at the highest level there is

Plus, it isnt every year youre 67-35 at the trade deadline....I think we need to be careful not to sell the farm, yes, but if KW feels like Huff or someone like him will put us over the top, lets do it

Tragg
07-31-2005, 12:29 AM
I think the Phillies might be interested in Baez and the Sox really want Wagner.The Sox might be able to ship Viscaino and Baez to Phillie for Wagner and the Sox would keep Huff. I think Huff is very under rated and if the Sox get it would be a steal. Huff would put up huge Numbers and would be very happy playing for a team that has a chance to win and have fun.

Well if the Phillies aer willing to give us Wagner for Baez and Viz, then by all means, trade for Baez.
I look at Huff's numbers, and I see Konerko's numbers. I want to get him, but hopefully for an outfield prospect and some other players in the low minors.

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 12:29 AM
I see where youre coming from, but at this point, all these guys have is potential....

Prospects are prospects, and guys like Huff have been good for years at the highest level there is

Plus, it isnt every year youre 67-35 at the trade deadline....I think we need to be careful not to sell the farm, yes, but if KW feels like Huff or someone like him will put us over the top, lets do it

Yes, I agree that Huff would be a great help to this ballclub, and KW should pounce on an upgrade trade. KW has done pretty well in terms of not overpaying in the past, and hopefully he won't do the same here. I hope he lands a bat like Huff's, but the rumors of paying so much simply scare me a bit. Ahhhh, I just need some sleep. The trade deadline sucks :smile:.


EDIT: No way does Philly take Baez and Viz for Wagner. There should be a new shade of pink for that.

balke
07-31-2005, 12:34 AM
What do we even do with a Huff? Platoon? I don't understand the value of him overall. I'd like the insurance on the bench, but if he's just a bat...


Anyone think Ross Gload might be leaving in such a trade? I wouldn't cry over a move that loses Gload if its an upgrade. I think he's a great player, but I guess Huff is more proven. I'm hoping we don't give up on Mccarthy based on 4-5 outings this season, he may be one offseason away from being our 5th starter.

Baez is pretty blah. He'd contribute to the pen for sure, but I'd much rather redeal him for Wagner if possible. I can't wait til tomorrow, move or not. The rumors keep me interested, but give me a headache.

ndu3t4
07-31-2005, 12:34 AM
I think Aubry would be a great adition to this team, but as everyone has said for the RIGHT PRICE. The one guy I think is absolutly untouchable is Brian Anderson. This guy is gonna be a stud in the coming years. The other guys I think are expendable, some more than others. Baez would be nice just because then we wouldn't have to watch Vizcaino out of the pen. Baez is a former starter and can pitch 5 innings if needed. But once again, if its gonna cost too much, than it's not worth it.

Tragg
07-31-2005, 12:35 AM
Yes, I agree that Huff would be a great help to this ballclub, and KW should pounce on an upgrade trade. KW has done pretty well in terms of not overpaying in the past, and hopefully he won't do the same here. I hope he lands a bat like Huff's, but the rumors of paying so much simply scare me a bit. Ahhhh, I just need some sleep. The trade deadline sucks :smile:.


EDIT: No way does Philly take Baez and Viz for Wagner. There should be a new shade of pink for that. He overpaid in his first effort (our top pitching prospect and one of our top 4 pitching prospects and 2 other players for Ritchie), but he seems to have learned his lesson (the lesson was not that Ritchie was terrible, but that that was too high a price even if Ritchie was as advertised).
For Garcia, he traded from strength: he traded a top outfield prospect, but we had 4 of them and he was #3 or #4; the infielder was considered by some to be top, but I think we thought he was counterfeit.

Hopefully, he trades from strength again: gives an outfield prospect.

Tragg
07-31-2005, 12:39 AM
I think Aubry would be a great adition to this team, but as everyone has said for the RIGHT PRICE. The one guy I think is absolutly untouchable is Brian Anderson. This guy is gonna be a stud in the coming years. The other guys I think are expendable, some more than others. Baez would be nice just because then we wouldn't have to watch Vizcaino out of the pen. Baez is a former starter and can pitch 5 innings if needed. But once again, if its gonna cost too much, than it's not worth it.

McCarthy, to me, is the least expendable because we have 3 outfield prospects and only one of him. Plus, I think he's going to be a hell of a pitcher, from seeing him pitch.

A lot of our minor league gurus on this site say that while Anderson is the most major league ready, that Sweeney and Young may be better than him in another year. I wouldn't know - I've never seen any of them play.

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 12:43 AM
That pick, like Lance Broadway, will not be ready for 2-3 years. Brian Anderson is major-league ready and could start in the OF next year, Ryan Sweeney is 2007-ready and has all-star potential, and Chris Young is a toolsy outfielder with huge power. Of course I'd like to get far in the playoffs, and of course a world series>everything else. But you NEVER want to overpay, and if, god forbid, the white sox do not win the world series this year (or even if they do), people will look towards next year. Unless the Sox are to turn into the Spankyees, they need to keep the Brian Andersons and Gio Gonzalezes around for a little while to take over in a couple of years.

Sometimes you are forced to overpay. I guess we're of different opinons, but here's my line of thinking:

If KW goes out and makes the deals that put us over the top, we can win the whole darn thing. Attendance is rising, and with a trip deep into the playoffs, will continue to do so. More fans = higher payroll.

If we go deep into the playoffs we will be able to spend more money on major league players as opposed to hoping prospects pan out. This, obviously, means our chances increase. Plus, as history as shown, and as much as everyone loves to call JR cheap, he has shown with the Bulls dynasties that if you have a great team he will spend the money to allow the team to continue.

None of these guys may pan out at all. If KW doesn't make a trade to sacrifice the future for the present, this whole thing could blow up in our faces. If fans do not get the impression that ownership wants to do whatever it can, a sub-par 2006 season could easily turn the Sox into sellers as they hope to get younger. Now, all of the sudden here we are bitching and moaning about how ownership should have cared and made a deal so that we could have won the thing in 2005. And, here we all are complaining about these young studs, all these Jeff Abbotts and Julio Ramirez's of the world, that never panned out.

I'm sorry, but trade 'em all. We all laugh at the Yankmees now, but we weren't laughing when they were winning championship after championship were we? How about follow suit with them. Put together a good team and make as many runs deep into the playoffs as you can, and never rebuild until you absolutely have to. Bringing all these prospects up in 2006 or 2007 or whenever you think they will be ready to fulfill their destinies as all-stars is rebuilding, I don't care what anyone says. You don't start a bunch of rookies if you are serious about contending right now.

rowand33
07-31-2005, 12:45 AM
McCarthy would be a fine 5th starter for next year, and more. Out of 5 starts this year, I think 2 were quality. Hell, if we got that 40% ratio last year, we probably would have made the playoffs. He's done damn well for a young guy.


McCarthy would be a fine 5th starter? Bull****.

McCarthy had one good start, and one ok one. (good=Cubs, ok=Detroit (not to sound like Shoota on Crede, but BMac would've been ****ed if that wasn't in Comerica. the kid isn't ready, and we don't know when he will be ready).

And as far as all of the prospects are concerned...
spiffie made a real good point on the Guardado thread:
.305, 27 doubles, nine HR, 49 RBI, 54 SB

that's Willie Harris in AA.

who knows what you'll get from the prospects? (and where the hell is Anderson gonna play anyways? Rowand-Pods-Dye will be around next year for sure, and the kid's ready.) I'll gladly trade away the future for the present. I don't want to be the Yankees, but we really don't know what we're getting with them and we have a team taht can win the world series this year! I want to win the world series! hell, there's no guarantee the team we're putting out this year will even be good again next year. Guys could get injured. Guys could pull a Mike Lowell. who knows? but we know they're good this year. we know Aubrey Huff is good.

Tragg, you're just wrong on Huff. If you look at his numbers at all. If you examine them, not just glance at them... you'll see how good he is.

saying he's a career .290 hitter is skewing statistics. do you really think that the 2001 season that brings down those numbers (his rookie year) is at all indicitive of what we'd get from him? cause his career average is well over .300 without that year.

.360+ OBP each year from 2002-2004.

and let's not forget, like I said before, he's a second half player.
.331/.386/.579 in 04 post break
.320/.374/.576 in 03
.329/.376/.546 in 02
.352/.397/.722 so far this year.

this guy is out of his slump and killing the ball.

he would be awesome for us, and he's a top tier offensive player.

you gotta give a lot to get a lot.

and (while not great at em) this guy could play LF, RF, 3B, 1B, and DH.

you rest Pods, Rowand, Everett, Paulie, Dye, and Crede each once a week and sub Huff in their place (with Pods in center when Rowand plays).

We rest all those guys at least once a week anyways. Except now Timo or Willie play. I'd certainly rather see Huff in the lineup over any sub we have now.

I want a ring. Frank is gone, we need a bat. The kids can't help us right now. Huff can.

Chisox003
07-31-2005, 12:50 AM
McCarthy would be a fine 5th starter? Bull****.

McCarthy had one good start, and one ok one. (good=Cubs, ok=Detroit (not to sound like Shoota on Crede, but BMac would've been ****ed if that wasn't in Comerica. the kid isn't ready, and we don't know when he will be ready).

And as far as all of the prospects are concerned...
spiffie made a real good point on the Guardado thread:
.305, 27 doubles, nine HR, 49 RBI, 54 SB

that's Willie Harris in AA.

who knows what you'll get from the prospects? (and where the hell is Anderson gonna play anyways? Rowand-Pods-Dye will be around next year for sure, and the kid's ready.) I'll gladly trade away the future for the present. I don't want to be the Yankees, but we really don't know what we're getting with them and we have a team taht can win the world series this year! I want to win the world series! hell, there's no guarantee the team we're putting out this year will even be good again next year. Guys could get injured. Guys could pull a Mike Lowell. who knows? but we know they're good this year. we know Aubrey Huff is good.

Tragg, you're just wrong on Huff. If you look at his numbers at all. If you examine them, not just glance at them... you'll see how good he is.

saying he's a career .290 hitter is skewing statistics. do you really think that the 2001 season that brings down those numbers (his rookie year) is at all indicitive of what we'd get from him? cause his career average is well over .300 without that year.

.360+ OBP each year from 2002-2004.

and let's not forget, like I said before, he's a second half player.
.331/.386/.579 in 04 post break
.320/.374/.576 in 03
.329/.376/.546 in 02
.352/.397/.722 so far this year.

this guy is out of his slump and killing the ball.

he would be awesome for us, and he's a top tier offensive player.

you gotta give a lot to get a lot.

and (while not great at em) this guy could play LF, RF, 3B, 1B, and DH.

you rest Pods, Rowand, Everett, Paulie, Dye, and Crede each once a week and sub Huff in their place (with Pods in center when Rowand plays).

We rest all those guys at least once a week anyways. Except now Timo or Willie play. I'd certainly rather see Huff in the lineup over any sub we have now.

I want a ring. Frank is gone, we need a bat. The kids can't help us right now. Huff can.

What he said

Go get em Kenny!

DrGiggles
07-31-2005, 12:51 AM
Visit my thread and read the article, this deal just heated up, DRays want to add another player in a 3 player deal.

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 12:53 AM
Visit my thread and read the article, this deal just heated up, DRays want to add another player in a 3 player deal.

Lugo was already talked about before but the Red Sox nixed it. It's looking like the Red Sox are going to deal directly with the Mets if they deal Manny, because then they could keep the prospects they want.

rowand33
07-31-2005, 12:53 AM
http://www.topix.net/mlb/chicago-white-sox

3rd one down as of when I posted this

I'm giddy (and extremely pissed I'll be at the Brewers-Giants game tomorrow instead of online with ESPN on)

DaleJRFan
07-31-2005, 12:54 AM
Anyone think Ross Gload might be leaving in such a trade? I wouldn't cry over a move that loses Gload if its an upgrade.

I'm the biggest Gload fan here... and I wouldn't shed a tear if moving him to TB brought Huff to the southside.

DrGiggles
07-31-2005, 12:58 AM
Thanks Rowand33, the actual link is http://www.620wdae.com/localsportsstory.html?ID=20050731014928

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 12:58 AM
http://www.topix.net/mlb/chicago-white-sox

3rd one down as of when I posted this

I'm giddy (and extremely pissed I'll be at the Brewers-Giants game tomorrow instead of online with ESPN on)

Really? I have tix for that game but I won't be able to go.

WhiteSox16K
07-31-2005, 12:59 AM
Opti, I was going to say the same thing (EDIT: As your post at 12:43 - I guess that's what I get for taking a break and talking to my brother about trade possibilities), but I'll just pile on yours now. Nicely put though. :D:

I hate people who feel that we need to keep every prospect or draft pick ever put into out minor league system because there's a chance. Yes, there's a chance, but there is also a [good] chance that KW makes a trade, gives up a few minor league prospects, and the players he gets help win a championship. The people who are now complaining will be the same people that are applauding KW for his "risk-taking" back in July. For all of you who are on the fence, pick a side and stay on it. Most of you are Chicago White Sox fans, not Charlotte Knights fans, so let's worry about the Sox before we worry about every prospect sitting in Charlotte, or Birminghan, or Kannapolis, or Winston-Salem. Their called prospects for a reason and there is no way in telling whether they'll be - for example - a Mark Buehrle, or a no-name coulda-shoulda-woulda been.

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 01:03 AM
Opti, I was going to say the same thing, but I'll just pile on yours now. Nicely put though. :D:

I hate people who feel that we need to keep every prospect or draft pick ever put into out minor league system because there's a chance. Yes, there's a chance, but there is also a [good] chance that KW makes a trade, gives up a few minor league prospects, and the players he gets help win a championship. The people who are now complaining will be the same people that are applauding KW for his "risk-taking" back in July. For all of you who are on the fence, pick a side and stay on it. Most of you are Chicago White Sox fans, not Charlotte Knights fans, so let's worry about the Sox before we worry about every prospect sitting in Charlotte, or Birminghan, or Kannapolis, or Winston-Salem. Their called prospects for a reason and there is no way in telling whether they'll be - for example - a Mark Buehrle, or a no-name coulda-shoulda-woulda been.

I agree. I think the people that fall in love with our prospects are setting themselves up for disaster. Take the Garcia trade last year. Seattle got Reed, who has been awesome in the field, but if Reed were here he'd just be a defensive replacement with little trade value. Kenny sold high, and I hope he does it again, again, and again.

I've stated before that if we're going to trade prospects who develop into good players somewhere else, that's great. We don't need to put up with the mistakes they make developing here and we can just trade more of our high-ceilinged little saviors to get them later.

rowand33
07-31-2005, 01:04 AM
Really? I have tix for that game but I won't be able to go.

yeah, I'm gonna be right up front, right field side in my podsednik all star shirt. my dad got the tickets in like April so we could see Bonds.

now there's no Bonds and I'm missing hot stove action.

I'll be juicing my cingular bill checking ESPN all game on my phone.

DrGiggles
07-31-2005, 01:06 AM
Rowand33 email me webmaster@xawear.com and give me your cell phone number and I'll text you with any trades, save you some money. :D: We're here for ya poor guy.

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 01:06 AM
I'm sorry, but trade 'em all...

I understand your line of thinking, and I understand the need to win. But you have to find a balance here. If the 1989 White Sox traded away their top prospect, where would Frank Thomas be?

etc. etc...Where would Carlos Lee/Maggs/Garland/Buehrle/Rowand be?
Where will McCarthy, Young et al be?

I'm not overvaluing the importance of a prospect here; I'm simply stating that a contending team can start rookies and use them effectively, and a balance between solid, proven veterans and a couple of young rookies are important to a team that is not in the top 10 payrolls in the league, as Jenks (and Cotts, although he is not a rookie, this is his first big year and he is making the minimum) are showing us this year. If anyone is truly expendable, it's Brian Anderson, because Rowand/Pods/Dye are probably all going to be around next year. Sweeney and Young are important in later years, and supposedly have more potential, and McCarthy could possibly be the #5 starter next year as he still has a lot of upside.

I agree that this season is amazing and a trade would help this ballclub, but balancing the importance between veterans and younger guys is extremely important. A trade would be nice, but like I've said before, hopefully KW won't completely mortgage the future. I also don't see JR raising the payroll $10/$20mil next year, even if the Sox win it all.

rowand33
07-31-2005, 01:09 AM
Rowand33 email me webmaster@xawear.com and give me your cell phone number and I'll text you with any trades, save you some money. :D: We're here for ya poor guy.

done and done. thanks man.

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 01:09 AM
yeah, I'm gonna be right up front, right field side in my podsednik all star shirt. my dad got the tickets in like April so we could see Bonds.

now there's no Bonds and I'm missing hot stove action.

I'll be juicing my cingular bill checking ESPN all game on my phone.

Yeah, I wanted to see Bonds too. A friend of mine and I were planning on sneaking some steroids into his duffel bag and then running off to tell the umps. But then we figured he'd already have more steroids in there than what we would be putting in. Either way, it's a shame to not be able to boo the guy out of the building.

rowand33
07-31-2005, 01:15 AM
Yeah, I wanted to see Bonds too. A friend of mine and I were planning on sneaking some steroids into his duffel bag and then running off to tell the umps. But then we figured he'd already have more steroids in there than what we would be putting in. Either way, it's a shame to not be able to boo the guy out of the building.

Bonds is just on my list of guys that I want to see so when I'm 80 I can tell the grand kids: "Yeah I saw ____ play"

Guys like Ichiro, Vlad, Manny, etc.

But all's not lost, I can brag aobut when I saw the great pitching duel between Lowry and Capuano and see standout offensive players like the great Geoff Jenkis

gr8mexico
07-31-2005, 01:18 AM
Aubrey Huff is only 28 years old and he is a left handed bat that the Sox can use. Huff has a .291 life time batting AVG and gives you 100 RBIs a year with a crappy Tampa lineup. Huff will guarantee you good numbers because he has proving it before. You cant say that about any other prospect just look at Reed .252 AVG 4 SB and just 2 HR. Everyone was crying when he got trade it and now one seems to care about him. The Sox need to win NOW!! and if they do win it all the Sox would have the $$ to sign most of the guys. I wouldn't care if Brian Anderson or Sweeney became the next Pujols,Manny etc etc.... I'm so tired can you hurry up and make a freakin trade already:mad:

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 01:19 AM
If anyone is truly expendable, it's Brian Anderson, because Rowand/Pods/Dye are probably all going to be around next year. Sweeney and Young are important in later years, and supposedly have more potential, and McCarthy could possibly be the #5 starter next year as he still has a lot of upside.

Actually, I'd rather keep Anderson and trade the other guys since I think Rowand would make for some good trade bait. McCarthy makes sense I guess but not if Kenny plans on adding another top starter. After his pursuit of Burnett so far, and his pursuit of Zito, I'm thinking he wants another big name to plant into that rotation. I recall, I think it was Hawk who might have said this, but I recall someone from the Sox organization saying that they were trying to model the Atlanta Braves. How else can you do that without having one of the best, if not the best, rotations in the game? I still think he makes another play at Zito over the offseason which could make McCarthy expendable.

A trade would be nice, but like I've said before, hopefully KW won't completely mortgage the future. I also don't see JR raising the payroll $10/$20mil next year, even if the Sox win it all.

There's no way he completely mortgages our future. I would imagine that he's going to at least get Pods, Tadahito, AJ, and maybe Crede signed to a decent long term deals. He already has Rowand, Dye and Uribe under manageable contracts. These guys, for the exception of maybe Rowand who I think is gone at the end of the season (just a hunch), are the future. And, they have a lot brighter future on the South Side right now than guys like Sweeney do.

DaleJRFan
07-31-2005, 01:29 AM
If the Sox deal for Huff, Baez (and/or Wagner and Lugo) what roster moves are made to accomodate them??

Starters & Platoon Roles:
Konerko/Huff/Gload (1B)
Iguchi/Lugo (2B)
Uribe/Lugo (SS)
Crede/Uribe (3B)
Podsednik/Everett (LF)
Rowand/Podsednik (CF)
Dye/Huff/Everett (RF)
Huff/Everett/Gload (DH)

Bench Guys:
Timo (OF)
Lugo (IF)
Ozuna (IF)
Harris (odd man out)
Gload (odd man out)

We'd have a bullpen of:
Cotts
Politte
Jenks (back to AA???)
Vizcaino (odd man out?)
Marte
Baez
Hermanson

I am assuming the odd-men-out would be Gload, Harris and Vizcaino... or am I missing something? DO any of these active roster guys get moved???

Mr. White Sox
07-31-2005, 01:38 AM
These guys, for the exception of maybe Rowand who I think is gone at the end of the season (just a hunch), are the future.

That's pretty funny, because I think that Rowand could be traded in the offseason as well. The only reason why this may not happen is that Brian Anderson is the most major-league ready of all of the outfield prospects in the Sox system, and thus, he is the biggest trade bait. That's also why McCarthy is the best pitching trade bait in the system.

KW will try to keep McCarthy if he can because he is important as a starter in the Sox future. If KW wants to keep Garland and Buehrle, he's not going to have a ton of pitching money available, so McCarthy would be a great guy to have around at the minimum.

I don't know which Braves staff you're talking about, but the early 90's Braves staff (Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, etc.) were basically young, cheap, stud pitchers. The current Braves staff (which I'm assuming you're referring to) has a couple of expensive, stud veterans and a couple of younger, cheaper, really good pitchers. Either way, a mixture is needed (as Buehrle and Garland aren't going to come cheap) and McCarthy would fit the rotation nicely as a back-end guy. Assuming Dye stays healthy and Pods continues to produce, they'll be locked up for a while. KW will make the decision tomorrow whether he plans to trade Rowand in the offseason or trade Anderson now and keep Rowand for another year or two to prepare for Young/Sweeney.


Alright, sleepy time. Let's see what happens! :o:

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 01:58 AM
That's pretty funny, because I think that Rowand could be traded in the offseason as well. The only reason why this may not happen is that Brian Anderson is the most major-league ready of all of the outfield prospects in the Sox system, and thus, he is the biggest trade bait. That's also why McCarthy is the best pitching trade bait in the system.

KW will try to keep McCarthy if he can because he is important as a starter in the Sox future. If KW wants to keep Garland and Buehrle, he's not going to have a ton of pitching money available, so McCarthy would be a great guy to have around at the minimum.

I don't know which Braves staff you're talking about, but the early 90's Braves staff (Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, etc.) were basically young, cheap, stud pitchers. The current Braves staff (which I'm assuming you're referring to) has a couple of expensive, stud veterans and a couple of younger, cheaper, really good pitchers. Either way, a mixture is needed (as Buehrle and Garland aren't going to come cheap) and McCarthy would fit the rotation nicely as a back-end guy. Assuming Dye stays healthy and Pods continues to produce, they'll be locked up for a while. KW will make the decision tomorrow whether he plans to trade Rowand in the offseason or trade Anderson now and keep Rowand for another year or two to prepare for Young/Sweeney.


Alright, sleepy time. Let's see what happens! :o:

By the Braves staff, I meant the 90's ones but wasn't looking at the contract part. I think he just wants a super-solid pitching staff in their primes and JR may finally be ready to pay for it.

I can hope anyway. Normally I mix in a healthy dose of pessimism, but I can't this year since we're doing so well.

rowand33
07-31-2005, 02:04 AM
I think we'd lose timo and willie before we lost Viz.

especially with how well he's pitched recently.

well, time for bed.

I'm so excited for tomorrow. It's like Christmas!!!!

unfortunately, it looks like Uncle Kenny's first gift is clothes... Geoff Blum...

Optipessimism
07-31-2005, 02:19 AM
I think we'd lose timo and willie before we lost Viz.

especially with how well he's pitched recently.

well, time for bed.

I'm so excited for tomorrow. It's like Christmas!!!!

unfortunately, it looks like Uncle Kenny's first gift is clothes... Geoff Blum...

Haha, yeah a pair of funky looking socks that we only accept because Pablo Ozuno makes our feet cold when he plays third.

...that makes no sense.

Chisox003
07-31-2005, 02:24 AM
I think we'd lose timo and willie before we lost Viz.

especially with how well he's pitched recently.

well, time for bed.

I'm so excited for tomorrow. It's like Christmas!!!!

unfortunately, it looks like Uncle Kenny's first gift is clothes... Geoff Blum...

Great analogy....

Geoff Blum:Clothes::Huff/Baez:Big, heavy box wrapped with a big red bow (When unwrapped, leading to a Southside title....)

Get it done KW....

TimChamp
07-31-2005, 02:40 AM
Hey guys, just out of curiousity, does anybody know the contract situation of Huff? I know he's making almost $5 million this year and Kenny usually makes trades for players that he wants here for more than one year...I can actually see him as our 1B guy next year...


--Champ out

Jjav829
07-31-2005, 02:42 AM
Hey guys, just out of curiousity, does anybody know the contract situation of Huff? I know he's making almost $5 million this year and Kenny usually makes trades for players that he wants here for more than one year...I can actually see him as our 1B guy next year...


--Champ out

He has one more year left at $6.75 million.

Foulke You
07-31-2005, 02:48 AM
What do we even do with a Huff? Platoon? I don't understand the value of him overall. I'd like the insurance on the bench, but if he's just a bat...

I just read through this entire monster thread and balke is the only one who had the same thought as I have. Where exactly do we play Huff??:?: He is an outfielder right? Bench Rowand? Bench Dye? Bench Everett? None of these seem like attractive options to me. Huff is a fine player but something isn't jiving with this deal. You don't bring in a player of Huff's caliber to be the new Timo Perez off the bench. There has to be something more to this trade than meets the eye.

Jjav829
07-31-2005, 02:51 AM
I just read through this entire monster thread and balke is the only one who had the same thought as I have. Where exactly do we play Huff??:?: He is an outfielder right? Bench Rowand? Bench Dye? Bench Everett? None of these seem like attractive options to me. Huff is a fine player but something isn't jiving with this deal. You don't bring in a player of Huff's caliber to be the new Timo Perez off the bench. There has to be something more to this trade than meets the eye.

He would be the everyday DH with Everett going back to the role he was in when Frank was playing. Huff could also spell Konerko at 1B, and Dye in RF (and possibly even Crede at 3B if the Blum deal doesn't happen). There's nothing more to it. Huff would be our everyday DH. He's a better hitter than Everett. It also keeps our bench strong with Everett going back to that role.

Foulke You
07-31-2005, 03:17 AM
He would be the everyday DH with Everett going back to the role he was in when Frank was playing. Huff could also spell Konerko at 1B, and Dye in RF (and possibly even Crede at 3B if the Blum deal doesn't happen). There's nothing more to it. Huff would be our everyday DH. He's a better hitter than Everett. It also keeps our bench strong with Everett going back to that role.
Ok, that makes a bit more sense than replacing one of our outfielders. Still, I do like Everett a lot and he comes up with some very big hits for our team. I guess I'm aprehensive because I haven't seen Huff play too much except when we've played the Rays so I don't exactly know 100% what we are getting with him.

DaleJRFan
07-31-2005, 04:11 AM
Ok, that makes a bit more sense than replacing one of our outfielders. Still, I do like Everett a lot and he comes up with some very big hits for our team. I guess I'm aprehensive because I haven't seen Huff play too much except when we've played the Rays so I don't exactly know 100% what we are getting with him.

Imagine Ross Gload's numbers from 2004 spread across a full season (+ power). That's what you'll get... a good contact hitter with lotsa pop in the bat.

ndgt10
07-31-2005, 07:39 AM
I don't know if this was posted yet, as I don't feel like sifting through 7 pages of posts, but when I was listening to the score or AM1000 last night, somebody commented that 95% of prospects dealt at the trading deadline don't even make it to the major leagues. I thought that was quite interesting.

gosox41
07-31-2005, 07:45 AM
I don't know if this was posted yet, as I don't feel like sifting through 7 pages of posts, but when I was listening to the score or AM1000 last night, somebody commented that 95% of prospects dealt at the trading deadline don't even make it to the major leagues. I thought that was quite interesting.


I don't know if that's true or not, but there have been some prospects traded that have turned into good/great major leaguers. Smoltz and Bagwell come to mind immediately. It certainly shouldn't deter a team like the Sox from making a trade but it may make a team think about overpaying.


Bob

BeviBall!
07-31-2005, 08:14 AM
From Baseball Prospectus this morning:

The Red Sox are making sure Plan B doesn't head west instead of north. Aubrey Huff is the current "it boy" on the whisper wire with the Sox (Red and White) checking on his availability. The Red Sox are showcasing Jon Papelbon with a start tomorrow, while the White Sox are sticking with their initial offer of Brandon McCarthy and Damaso Marte. A source that has spoken to both sides tonight says that the Devil Rays like Boston's offer better, but are not convinced they will make any move. The Red Sox also appear to know what Matt Lawton will cost.

ndgt10
07-31-2005, 09:26 AM
FWIW...Offman on the score just said that we are the frontrunners for Huff and Baez.

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2005, 12:21 PM
Stark said that it most certainly includes BMAC. i would take it. Remember: 1917.These guys are no guarantees. Remember: 2000.

samram
07-31-2005, 12:26 PM
These guys are no guarantees. Remember: 2000.

Yeah, I remember hearing that if the team waited another year, well, then we would really see the maturation of the system and a ten year run was ahead. Oops. I'm sick of waiting for a WS three years from the current season.

SOXSINCE'70
07-31-2005, 01:44 PM
These guys are no guarantees. Remember: 2000.

Don't forget 1959,1983,1993 and 1994.:(:

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2005, 01:48 PM
Don't forget 1959,1983,1993 and 1994.:(:You obviously get the idea. The fact is, once you get to the playoffs, it's pretty much a crapshoot who wins. No matter who you get in trade, at best he marginally improves your odds. Your chances are much better building a good team that makes it to the playoffs year after year than "going for it" and taking one shot. Trading prospects are a part of the game, but ultimately, you have to get decent value in return.

Cowhead418
07-31-2005, 01:49 PM
Aubrey Huff and Danny freakin Baez aren't going to guarantee us a pennant. In fact no one on the market will. There simply is no guarantee. I think we'd have a much better shot fielding contending teams over the next decade then going for it all in one year. Just my opinion.

balke
07-31-2005, 01:53 PM
You obviously get the idea. The fact is, once you get to the playoffs, it's pretty much a crapshoot who wins. No matter who you get in trade, at best he marginally improves your odds. Your chances are much better building a good team that makes it to the playoffs year after year than "going for it" and taking one shot. Trading prospects are a part of the game, but ultimately, you have to get decent value in return.


I'm with this thinking. I hope we don't do something "stupid" for one "big" push like Huff and Baez. I don't wanna blow the guy's value out of proportion, but when they signed Anderson, they were talking about the next CLee, A-Row, Magglio type outfielder. When you see Mccarthy pitch, its obvious he has more talent than a lot of the past "great" pitching prospects the Sox have. They don't toss around the word Mcdowell on just anyone. These are both super young prospects who have a lot of talent. You can't just throw them away on a deal that you should be able to make for less.

Cowhead418
07-31-2005, 01:56 PM
I'm with this thinking. I hope we don't do something "stupid" for one "big" push like Huff and Baez. I don't wanna blow the guy's value out of proportion, but when they signed Anderson, they were talking about the next CLee, A-Row, Magglio type outfielder. When you see Mccarthy pitch, its obvious he has more talent than a lot of the past "great" pitching prospects the Sox have. They don't toss around the word Mcdowell on just anyone. These are both super young prospects who have a lot of talent. You can't just throw them away on a deal that you should be able to make for less.
I couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly the way I have felt the whole time. There is no one on the market this year worth giving up Anderson or McCarthy this year. Those guys I'd only give up for an absolute stud. Huff and Baez aren't going to push us over the top.