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View Full Version : Does Tadahito have ROY sewn up?


Bisco Stu
07-30-2005, 03:33 PM
Man, if he can play like this in the postseason, we're going places.

He's a zone right now, reminding me of Roberto Alomar (uh, the one that beat us in 93, not the lousy one KW kept trading for).

But the question remains: Is Tadahito the ROY?

A special award in that you can only win it once in your career, obviously.

Bisco Stu
07-30-2005, 03:37 PM
From Saturday's game:

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/BAB105073015_lower.jpg

Unregistered
07-30-2005, 03:43 PM
Robinson Cano is having a pretty good year - and Chris Young is doing well, too.

Much too soon to call Iguchi a lock, IMO. He is the starting second baseman on the team with the best record in baseball, though - that should count for something...

TimoPerez
07-30-2005, 03:45 PM
Robinson Cano is having a pretty good year - and Chris Young is doing well, too.

Much too soon to call Iguchi a lock, IMO. He is the starting second baseman on the team with the best record in baseball, though - that should count for something...

Joe Mauer too.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2005, 03:45 PM
you guys are forgetting Nick Swisher too

Chips
07-30-2005, 03:47 PM
I give the award to Tadahito. Obviously I am biased, but the guy is having one hell of a year on a team that is kicking ass.

ChiSoxRowand
07-30-2005, 03:49 PM
I doubt Iguchi will win ROY. Matsui put up good numbers a couple years ago and he didn't win, and he is a Yankee. I think Cano will win, he has an advantage in that he's a Yankee. Huston Street is also putting up good numbers.

skobabe8
07-30-2005, 04:04 PM
The media has orgasms over Swisher and Houston Street. Tad deserves it, but it will be tough.

jeremydavid
07-30-2005, 04:15 PM
I think Gustavo Chacin has a real good chance if he keeps up his 3.45 ERA. He's 10-5 on a very average Blue Jays team.

munchman33
07-30-2005, 04:21 PM
The New York media won't let anyone but Cano win the award. No matter how good any of the other candadites are.

Palehose13
07-30-2005, 04:23 PM
IMO, Tadahito would be AL ROY hands down if he was playing the way he played in Japan (more power). However, because he is hitting in the 2 hole and "giving himself up" often for the sake of the team his numbrs are down from where they can be. Don't get me wrong...I don't think this is a bad thing (quite the opposite!), but I am not so sure the people who vote will see how selfless he has been this year.

mjharrison72
07-30-2005, 04:39 PM
IMO, Tadahito would be AL ROY hands down if he was playing the way he played in Japan (more power). However, because he is hitting in the 2 hole and "giving himself up" often for the sake of the team his numbrs are down from where they can be. Don't get me wrong...I don't think this is a bad thing (quite the opposite!), but I am not so sure the people who vote will see how selfless he has been this year.
Don't forget, also, that there is an inherent bias against players who played in Japan for several years and then being classified as "rookies" in the U.S. major league. Don't get me wrong... if he's the best rookie, he deserves it, but there are others who would think that compared to a younger kid who just came up from the minors this year, the younger kid should deserve it.
-M

Palehose13
07-30-2005, 04:42 PM
Don't forget, also, that there is an inherent bias against players who played in Japan for several years and then being classified as "rookies" in the U.S. major league. Don't get me wrong... if he's the best rookie, he deserves it, but there are others who would think that compared to a younger kid who just came up from the minors this year, the younger kid should deserve it.
-M

I understand that, but Ichiro got it and what is the difference for someone like Podsednik who spent a looooooong time in the minors (2nd in ROY voting) and Tadahito? His time in Japan could be looked at as his time in the minors.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 05:09 PM
Although my vote would go to Iguchi because I know how valuable he is to this team, there is no way he gets it. Two reasons:

1. The rest of the world ignores the fact that he is one of the top No. 2 hitters in baseball. They will look at his batting average in comparison to Cano and say that Cano is a better second baseman.

2. Iguchi is from Japan and is already a professional. Although this excuse hasn't stopped Japanese players before, it does when they play for the White Sox.

Cano, Street, and Swisher are the top three IMO. Iguchi comes in fourth. Cano will probably get it because the Yanks will either make the playoffs or be closest to it at the end of the season. However, if some way Oakland finds their way into the Wild Card, Street wins it hands down.

Heffalump
07-30-2005, 05:19 PM
I think that Tadahito should be ROY. However, I would put money on him NOT winning it for the following reasons:

1. While his stats are good, there are many rookies out there with comparable numbers. The voters do not see or take into account all the little things Tadahito does for the Sox from the 2 spot.

2. As a player coming over from Japan, there is bias against him not being a true rookie. While I think this is BS, it does exist.

3. Like somebody else said, the media is gonna push for somebody like Cano from NY.

All I care about is that he keeps playing like he has been for us deep into October. I'm sure that Tadahito would gladly give up the ROY award to some sap on Oakland or New York for a World Series ring.

JB98
07-30-2005, 05:25 PM
Gooch is the most deserving of the award, but he won't win because the writers seem to frown on having experience in the Japanese Leagues (see Matsui, Shingo). You have to be spectacular to overcome this bias (like Ichiro). Iguchi has been consistent and solid, but not spectacular.

shes
07-30-2005, 08:02 PM
Cano will probably get it because the Yanks will either make the playoffs or be closest to it at the end of the season. However, if some way Oakland finds their way into the Wild Card, Street wins it hands down.

Oakland has a better record than the Yankees right now and considering how they historically play in August and September, they'll take the Wild Card, if not win the West. Personally, I don't think the Yankees are going to the playoffs this year--they just aren't as good as Boston, Anaheim or Oakland.

Street's your 2005 ROY. Iguchi will be second.

elrod
07-30-2005, 08:21 PM
Aaron Hill on the Blue Jays is a good candidate. There are lots of solid rookies this year in the AL.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2005, 08:34 PM
Everybody already mentioned deserves the AL ROY over Cano. Think about the lineup he's in! Pitchers need to throw to him + he's a rookie = He'll get good pitches to hit.

The AL ROY will be Gustavo Chacin, if he can keep up this production. It's a shame, too, because Iguchi really deserves it.
#2: Huston Street
#3: Robinson Cano
#4: Nick Swisher
#5: Tadahito Iguchi
#6: Aaron Hill
#7: (is there even a #7? :O) Chris Young

Arkham
07-30-2005, 09:28 PM
A look at the likely ROY candidates. First, the position players:

Gooch: .277, 49 R, 40 RBI, 8 HR, 12 SB. Not happening. Not that I don't like his production, I think he's been great for the Sox, but even taking his sacrifices into account, he's still hitting just .277. Last year Crosby's was even worse, but he hit for power, and there really weren't any great challengers. This year there are a lot of top-notch rookies in contention, both in the field and on the mound.

Joe Mauer: .308, 37 R, 37 RBI, 8 HR, 8 SB. I think he qualifies still, right? The steals and the average, both pretty darn high for a catcher, will make Mauer's a strong candidacy.

Robinson Cano: .309, 46 R, 39 RBI, 8 HR, 0 SB. If he wins, it's because in a crowded field, homers in the NY media voted for their boy.

Nick Swisher: .249, 41 R, 50 RBI, 14 HR, 0 SB. Leads rookies in both homers and RBIs. Not too dissimilar to what Crosby put up last year. Won't get nominated this year though, as I don't think he's the best or even the second-best rookie on his team.

Dan Johnson: .321, 27 R, 25 RBI, 6 HR, 0 SB. That's in just 162 AB. Johnson who was called up in may when Durazo went on the DL. He stumbled a bit early on, but has been getting a lot better. In May he hit .176. In June he hit .303. In July he's hit .377. If he falls back to earth, the six weeks or so he wasn't in the majors will probably doom him, but if he keeps looking like pre-shaven Giambi out there, he might just wrap himself up a ROY.

Now, the pitchers:

Gustavo Chacin: 122 2/3 IP, 10-5, 3.45 ERA, 70 K, 10 HR. Has probably been the best rookie starting pitcher so far this year. Playing in Canada on a team that seems like a good bet to fade away could hurt him.

Huston Street: 51 IP, 4-1, 9 SV, 1.41 ERA, 46 K, 1 HR. A very deserving candidate who is probably going to be overlooked when it comes to voting because of his low number of saves. Given that he wasn't the closer when the season started, that's not really a knock against him, but it does make voters look elsewhere. I think what might be most impressive about this kid is that in 51 innings, he's only given up one jack despite having a fastball that tops out in the mid-90's. That says that the guy is just not making many mistakes.

Chris Young: 115 IP, 8-6, 4.54 ERA, 100 K, 15 HR. The ERA's a bit ugly, and likely to get uglier as the season wears on. As the Rangers begin to suck more and more (an annual occurrence), that record should end up below .500 as well. Not a likely candidate.

Chien-Ming Wang: 83 1/3 IP, 6-3, 3.89 ERA, 31 K, 7 HR. Had a shot if he had stayed healthy. Now probably not.

Here's who I see as the likely contenders for ROY, not in any particular order: Mauer, Cano, Johnson, Chacin. Basically it'll come down to the ones who don't fall off the pace they've set thus far. If Gooch starts hitting some homers or knocking some runs in, or if Street's save totals end up around 30 or more, they might have outside chances.

Bisco Stu
07-30-2005, 09:59 PM
You guys are right. I'm dumb, I forgot about Cano. Tadahito's pro experience and Cano in NY will give it to him.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2005, 09:59 PM
Here's who I see as the likely contenders for ROY, not in any particular order: Mauer, Cano, Johnson, Chacin. Basically it'll come down to the ones who don't fall off the pace they've set thus far. If Gooch starts hitting some homers or knocking some runs in, or if Street's save totals end up around 30 or more, they might have outside chances.

I agree; I completely forgot about Mauer being eligible. If Swisher can get his average up, his power numbers could look very appealing.

FYI, Iguchi is now hitting .283 with 42RBI; he also scored 2 more runs and hit a triple today. Still, if he can't get his numbers up, he probably won't get national recognition. For shame.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 10:21 PM
Would Chris Shelton of DET qualify? He only had 46 AB's last year. If he does qualify, he gets my vote even over Iguchi (because he's not really a rookie IMO). The guy is just a stud.

Arkham
07-30-2005, 10:36 PM
I agree; I completely forgot about Mauer being eligible.

I wasn't sure either until I checked. I wonder if some voters will have also forgotten?

If Swisher can get his average up, his power numbers could look very appealing.

Here's how he's hit by month:

April: .218
May: .196
June: .266
July: .275

It's up, but it's not way up. With Mauer and Johnson and Cano all over .300, bringing his average up to .260-270 which is what he's on pace to do if his numbers keep inching up isn't going to do it. Johnson's got him by 70 points on average and has decent power as well, Cano and Mauer both have decent power as well, have Swisher's average beat, and play defensively critical positions, while Swisher switches between RF and 1B. Unless he gets up to about 30 HR, I don't see him winning.

FYI, Iguchi is now hitting .283 with 42RBI; he also scored 2 more runs and hit a triple today.

I'm lazy. I got the stats from Yahoo, which only updates once a day.

Still, if he can't get his numbers up, he probably won't get national recognition. For shame.

Eh. He'll be somewhere around 10th in voting, and not too many people ahead of him will be undeserving. Besides, ROY awards are so the Miss Congeniality of baseball. Look at the last 4 winners:

2004: Crosby won it by being playing every day, being good defensively and hitting enough homers to not make his low average and huge strikeout totals stand out too much. He's having a much better year this year.

2003: Angel Berroa on it over a superior choice (Matsui) in a close vote where he was helped by backlash against Japanese "rookies" in their thirties. What's he done since?

2002: Eric Hinske. What's he done since?

2001: Which award do you think is on Ichrio's mantle and which is in a drawer somewhere, his ROY or his MVP?

Arkham
07-30-2005, 10:41 PM
Would Chris Shelton of DET qualify? He only had 46 AB's last year. If he does qualify, he gets my vote even over Iguchi (because he's not really a rookie IMO). The guy is just a stud.

He's had a hell of a year so far, but he does not qualify as a rookie. He didn't get a ton of ABs last year, but he was on the 25-man roster for too long.

Palehose13
07-30-2005, 11:48 PM
Besides, ROY awards are so the Miss Congeniality of baseball.


http://img.tfd.com/wiki/a/a2/001-MLB-VE-Ozzie_Guillen.jpg

"Miss Congeniality?!?!?! No one has ever called me that before..."

johnnyg83
07-31-2005, 12:08 AM
Remember that Matsui lost to Berroa of KC. The NYC thing didn;t work that time.