PDA

View Full Version : Disappointment level if no improvements to Sox roster


ChiSoxlukes
07-29-2005, 05:45 PM
With all of the trade rumors surrounding the Sox, how disappointed would you be if we didn't make any type of move? I think that I would be more surprised than disappointed although I am hoping for a major move. Also, would we have what it takes to win the world series without any improvements? I think that this team DOES have what it takes even though they are slumping as of late and Thomas is gone. Just wondering what you guys think.

BeviBall!
07-29-2005, 05:47 PM
No moves = extremely disappointed as I don't think this team can go far in the playoffs as is. I'd look at it as us failing to capitalize on our best chance in haf a century. Worst part is, we only need 2 pieces.

Dick Allen
07-29-2005, 05:49 PM
Now that Frank is out, I would be very disappointed. Also, we need some bullpen help pretty badly.

Pasqua's Posers
07-29-2005, 05:50 PM
No moves = extremely disappointed as I don't think this team can go far in the playoffs as is. I'd look at it as us failing to capitalize on our best chance in haf a century. Worst part is, we only need 2 pieces.

what two pieces you talkin about? I say grab Baez and Huff from Tampa Bay if that's the best we can do. If not, grab Wagner and some type of power hitter. We do not need Aj Burnett...

rowand33
07-29-2005, 05:55 PM
I want Eyre, Huff, and Baez.

I'll take Eyre and Griffey.

something needs to happen now that Frank is down for good.

GAsoxfan
07-29-2005, 05:56 PM
If the Sox made no moves I would be very disappointed (even more so if Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels made a move). This is the best chance the Sox have had in a long time, and they need to go for it. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels all have weaknesses and the only NL team to worry about is the Cardinals. With a chance to become the clear cut favorite for the WS the Sox need to do what's necessary.

GAsoxfan
07-29-2005, 05:58 PM
I want Eyre, Schmidt, Vizquel, Griffey, Huff, Guardado, Baez, and Wagner.

Maybe throw in Manny too.

Rocklive99
07-29-2005, 06:01 PM
No dissappointment, the funny thing is, even if any of these proposed trades would happen, the same people would cry about the players given up, especially if the players they want don't produce or the players you do give up do produce.

BigEdWalsh
07-29-2005, 06:02 PM
If the Sox made no moves I would be very disappointed (even more so if Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels made a move). This is the best chance the Sox have had in a long time, and they need to go for it. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels all have weaknesses and the only NL team to worry about is the Cardinals. With a chance to become the clear cut favorite for the WS the Sox need to do what's necessary.

Exactly the way I feel. I don't want to not make a move or two and sit around watching the Yankees, Red Sox and anybody else doing things to improve themselves. We're SO close!
I won't go so far as to say going to the World Series is impossible if we do nothing. I just like our chances better if we do.

HawkDJ
07-29-2005, 06:04 PM
Look KW wants desperately to improve this team and win the World Series, even if that means giving up valuable parts of the future. He's done it plenty in the past and shown he's one of the most aggresive GM's in the big leagues. With that said, if what other teams are asking for is too much for even KW, then I won't be disappointed.

BeviBall!
07-29-2005, 06:04 PM
what two pieces you talkin about? I say grab Baez and Huff from Tampa Bay if that's the best we can do. If not, grab Wagner and some type of power hitter. We do not need Aj Burnett...

One stick (Huff) one stud reliever (Wagner/Guardado). I really thought we needed another starter, but with Frank out, we need offense first and foremost.

Rocklive99
07-29-2005, 06:07 PM
Exactly the way I feel. I don't want to not make a move or two and sit around watching the Yankees, Red Sox and anybody else doing things to improve themselves. We're SO close!
I won't go so far as to say going to the World Series is impossible if we do nothing. I just like our chances better if we do.

Moves don't = improvement. I can't stand trades for the sake of trades, similar to the Flubs offseason. I trust KW after moves he's made in the past, he won't do something stupid unless it'll help the team

MarySwiss
07-29-2005, 06:19 PM
Look KW wants desperately to improve this team and win the World Series, even if that means giving up valuable parts of the future. He's done it plenty in the past and shown he's one of the most aggresive GM's in the big leagues. With that said, if what other teams are asking for are too much for even KW, then I won't be disappointed.

Excellent point. And it's not like there's any "sure fire, can't miss" upgrade out there. If Kenny can do a deal without giving away too much, gotta believe he will. And if he can't--well, after all, he's the guy who built this team, so I think we need to trust him.

DickAllen72
07-29-2005, 06:43 PM
I want Eyre, Huff, and Baez.

I'll take Eyre and Griffey.

something needs to happen now that Frank is down for good.

Since a scout from the Giants has been following the Sox recently and KW and Sox scouts were at Wrigley for the Giants game the other day, it seems a possibility that SF will be a likely trading partner.

If so, I propose McCarthy, Marte, Vizcaino and Harris for Schmidt, Vizquel and Eyre.

Or, leave McCarthy and Schmidt out of the deal, for all I care.

MIgrenade
07-29-2005, 06:45 PM
Now that Frank is out, I would be very disappointed. Also, we need some bullpen help pretty badly.\

I agree with you. I didn't care before now, but the Sox have to do something.

joltnjoe
07-29-2005, 06:58 PM
If no trade is made I will be really disappointed. An opportunity like this doesn't come along often, and if KW stands pat and doesn't do anything, that will just show me he doesn't care about winning. I don't want to hear about saving prospects, or mortgaging the farm. You do what you have to, to bring a world series to the southside. A prospect is just that, a prospect. Burnett would be great for this team. Power pithchers own the playoffs. I'm sick of people saying they don't like the trade that is out there with Florida. I personally love it. Lowell is starting to hit, and will feast at The Cell. Burnett will be lights out. Mcarthy will be a number 3 starter at best. Pickup the remaining money on Lowells contract. JR said money isn't a problem. Unless he is full of S***

anewman35
07-29-2005, 07:02 PM
If no trade is made I will be really disappointed. An opportunity like this doesn't come along often, and if KW stands pat and doesn't do anything, that will just show me he doesn't care about winning.

Couldn't it just mean that there are no trades out there to make?

joltnjoe
07-29-2005, 07:05 PM
Couldn't it just mean that there are no trades out there to make?


Don't give me that. There are trades out there to be made. It's just KW seems to worried about giving up prospects that will probably never amount to nothing anyway. Give me a break. I want guys who are established.

HawkDJ
07-29-2005, 07:17 PM
When has KW ever been afraid to trade prospects?

joltnjoe
07-29-2005, 07:23 PM
When has KW ever been afraid to trade prospects?


I would say right now. DUHHH

Daver
07-29-2005, 07:33 PM
I would say right now. DUHHH

With an attitude like that I'm taking bets you won't last a week.

Chips
07-29-2005, 07:33 PM
I would say right now. DUHHH

Seems we forgot about Jeremy Reed, Michael Morse, Gary Majewski.

joltnjoe
07-29-2005, 07:35 PM
Seems we forgot about Jeremy Reed, Michael Morse, Gary Majewski.

That was last year buddy I guess you just don't get it, probably never will

joltnjoe
07-29-2005, 07:36 PM
With an attitude like that I'm taking bets you won't last a week.

Truth hurts don't it.

doublem23
07-29-2005, 07:39 PM
Dissapointment level = none. Still baseball's best team.

Vernam
07-29-2005, 07:39 PM
With an attitude like that I'm taking bets you won't last a week. Make that week-end? :redneck

VC

Daver
07-29-2005, 07:40 PM
Truth hurts don't it.

Not really.

Chips
07-29-2005, 07:40 PM
Truth hurts don't it.

Im with Daver, you're awfully arrogant and ignorant for a first time poster.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2005, 11:45 PM
I certainly would be disappointed. I mean in truth the Sox could use upgrades in some areas, another bat, the bullpen, a middle infielder but again it takes TWO or THREE to make a deal. Williams can't trade with himself.

Now however is the time to be creative.

Lip

Tragg
07-30-2005, 12:01 AM
3 weeks ago I would have answered very disappointed.

But since that time, we seem to be concentrating on what I think are over-priced pitchers, so I won't be disappointed if those trades don't go through.

I'm disappointed if we can't get another hitter on this team, perhaps another middle infielder and someone for the bullpen; but it's been pretty obvious for the last 10 days that those aren't priority issues with the Sox, so my disappointment has passed.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2005, 01:15 AM
Tragg:

Not necessarily. If Levine is correct Williams made getting another infielder a priority of the first order since apparently he thought he had deals for Graffinino and (or) Randa.

Lip

Tragg
07-30-2005, 01:25 AM
Tragg:

Not necessarily. If Levine is correct Williams made getting another infielder a priority of the first order since apparently he thought he had deals for Graffinino and (or) Randa.

Lip
Well maybe so; I am really just looking for a utility middlle infielder who's better than harris. I sure didn't want to give a top prospect for Randa, like Diego did.
Anyway, as I'm in the obviously minority position of believing that KW has us set up to contend for a number of years (with the contracts of the vets, the near-ready status of outfielders in the minors and mccarthy), I'm thus conservative in trades, and I'm just as likely to be disappointed with a trade than without one.

BTW Lip, I just discovered Sox audio history on this site...I think that was your work, correct? Absolutely outstanding. It's been 35 years since I heard the voices of Red Rush and Bob Elson. Amazing deja vu.

SOX ADDICT '73
07-30-2005, 02:26 AM
When it comes to the trade market, there seem to be two big problems this year: the Wild Card has too many teams in the "buying" mode, and those who are "selling" have grossly overvalued their talent. I wouldn't be surprised to see no "blockbuster" deals at all this year, by anyone (unless, of course, you count the Twins' major acquisition of Bret Boone).

Lip Man 1
07-30-2005, 02:56 AM
Tragg:

Yes that was I. More to come in the future.

Lip

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 03:28 AM
I'd be disappointed if at the very least the Sox didn't pick up Griffey. Yeah, it's a big risk and a bad contract, but we wouldn't have to give up much. If nothing out there looks like a good enough deal for KW to pull the trigger on, then I'd like to see JR let us pick up Griffey's contract for the sole purpose of letting the fans know he is serious.

eastchicagosoxfan
07-30-2005, 06:32 AM
I will not be disappointed if the Sox stand pat. This group of guys have been good enough to go 31 games over, and beat all comers with the exception of Oakland. If the deadline passes without a move, I'm not grinding my teeth. Obviously, no one wants to be traded, but I also wonder if the guys on the team want to see anyone get moved. I don't think they want anyone moved. Buerhle is a leader on this team, and he comes across as a guy with a lot of loyalty, and I think it's rubbed off. This team has characteristics that we Sox fans point to that separate us from Cubs' fans. They play smart baseball. They do the little things, and don't have a lot of flash. They win. They don't care what anyone else thinks of them. They aren't media darlings.
I don't think the players want to see anyone moved off this magic carpet ride.

Dan H
07-30-2005, 09:01 AM
I would be very disappointed. I would like to see something very dramatic, but I would like to at least the Sox pick up a hitter. Getting an impact pitcher may be unrealistic right now. But I don't want something done just for the sake of doing it.

Ol' No. 2
07-30-2005, 09:14 AM
Whenever I hear someone say "I don't care if we give up McCarthy and other top prospects, if we win the WS it will be worth it", my standard reply is "If we give up all those guys, McCarthy turns into the next Dontrelle Willis, and we don't even MAKE IT to the WS, will it still be worth it? Because that's a lot more likely."

I'm beginning to get sick of all this. Screw it. Keep McCarthy. Get Scott Eyre to bolster the bullpen - he'll be relatively cheap. I have no problem going into the post-season with the current starting rotation. If they can land a big bat without giving up too much - do it. But the offense is good enough for 5th in the AL as it is. You don't need better than that in the playoffs.

Podzilla_40
07-30-2005, 09:44 AM
I'd do everything possible to keep BMac. A deal for Vizquel and Eyre may be done without him, but I doubt it. The only untouchable prospects are, hopefully, Sweeney and Anderson. Let Sweeney develop a little more before we just sell him off. I don't know if we need a big bat, like Huff, because his value is soaring (The Red Sox were giving up one of the best hitters in the game, and 2 solid prospects and ONLY getting Huff and Cameron back). Vizquel and Eyre would be fine by me. I say we dangle Harris, Marte, and a mid level prospect like Fields. Obviously they'll say no, but when it comes to the deadline I doubt SF will want to keep Vizquel around. If it takes getting rid of Uribe, I say do it. He's young, but his only redeeming value is his arm. He has way too many errors and is way too inconsistent at the dish. But I doubt we will have to, because I think SF will get desperate and accept Marte and prospects for the two.

Podsednik
Vizquel
Tad (or Aaron)
Konerko
Aaron
Everett
Dye
AJP
Crede

Eyre can be a lefty specialist and I think everything would work out for us. I think the pitching could hold up, and if El Duque goes down I think McCarthy may come through this time. The lineup looks a lot better just because the lack of dead weight at the bottom of it, no auto out in Uribe. Plus Everett would be better in the 6 spot, he's not the 3 hitter that Frank is.

SOXSINCE'70
07-30-2005, 09:57 AM
I want A-Rod for Crede and a bag of old baseballs.:D: :D:

I want Pedro Martinez and Tom Glavine for Vizcaino
and a bag of older baseballs.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I want Griffey,Burnett,Schmidt and Barry Zito for 2 kosher hot dogs,
2 sportschip Oatmeal Raisin cookies (a delicacy found only at Sox Park)
and a chocolate/vanilla swirl waffle cone.:D: :D:


C'mon Kenny!! Be a man!! Get it done!!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :rolling: :rolling:

downstairs
07-30-2005, 10:07 AM
Whenever I hear someone say "I don't care if we give up McCarthy and other top prospects, if we win the WS it will be worth it", my standard reply is "If we give up all those guys, McCarthy turns into the next Dontrelle Willis, and we don't even MAKE IT to the WS, will it still be worth it? Because that's a lot more likely."

I agree with the fact that saying "if we win the WS it will be worth it" is somewhat silly. But I disagree with you on giving up prospects.

Prospects are prospects. Unproven. We can always pick up free agents or players through trade in future years when we need to- players with as much *potential* as any prospect.

I just happen to love a GM who knows how to sell the "dream" of a prospect.

McCarthy could be the next Dontrelle. But then again what's the difference between keeping him or picking up a Jon Garland like guy down the road, letting him have a few sub-par years, and allowing him to bloom?

Prospects come and go. I'd rather give a lot of that up for a ton of insurance and improvement for 2005. Then, lets worry about 2006 after the WS parade, when free agent signings begin.

harwar
07-30-2005, 10:35 AM
Its a weird year with everyone,it seems, in the playoff hunt.
I think there will be a flurry of activity at the last minute.
However;I would be surprised if anyone like wagner or burnett go in the next couple of days.
The phillies will be trying desperately to trade him a month from now,so they can get a bidding war going.
Also,nice shot Daver.

Jjav829
07-30-2005, 11:39 AM
I'll be very disappointed. And quite frankly, I'm starting to worry that this deadline will come and go without the Sox making a move. Where is the trade the Sox are gonna make? Burnett is basically off the market. Unless the Sox have a sudden change of heart with Frank being injured, and they decide to take on Lowell's contract, we can forget about the Burnett deal. Schmidt doesn't look to be going anywhere. Ditto for Vizquel. Eyre could be had, but why bother? Acquiring Eyre only makes sense if we trade Marte in another deal. The Devil Rays are asking for a load for Huff and Baez, and already almost traded them to other teams. Unless the price drops fast, I don't know that either of them will be coming here.

The Reds bats (Dunn, Griffey, Pena, Kearns) are not available. The same can likely be said for Overbay. Guardado seems to be more available, though if I'm not mistaken Olney said something at the beginning of the 10:00 a.m. SportsCenter about Guardado being traded to the Red Sox, depending on whether he will waive his no-trade clause to go there. And lastly, Billy Wagner likely can't be had unless the Sox can come up with a starting pitcher to give the Phillies. So where is the trade to be made? Unless KW is quietly working on a trade for someone who hasn't been rumored to be available, it's looking like we're going to be left out of this.

mdep524
07-30-2005, 12:40 PM
If no other AL team makes a significant move, I would not be too disappointed if the Sox stand pat at the deadline. Think about it guys, MLB sets up this Armageddon July 31 trading deadline and its like if you don't make a move you're DOOMED!!! It's as almost as artificial as Sweetest Day, a "holiday" Hallmark invented to boost sales, then people begin to believe it is "real" (though obvious there's not the same profit incentive for MLB as there is for Hallmark).

The Sox have cruised to the best record in baseball. There are only four teams in the whole AL to even worry about- Oakland, Anaheim, Boston and New York. Nobody else is going to compete with us as is, regular season or playoffs. If those teams don't improve at the deadline, we are still the best team in baseball, period.

So let's not treat this trade deadline as anything more significant than it is.

Ol' No. 2
07-30-2005, 12:52 PM
I agree with the fact that saying "if we win the WS it will be worth it" is somewhat silly. But I disagree with you on giving up prospects.

Prospects are prospects. Unproven. We can always pick up free agents or players through trade in future years when we need to- players with as much *potential* as any prospect.

I just happen to love a GM who knows how to sell the "dream" of a prospect.

McCarthy could be the next Dontrelle. But then again what's the difference between keeping him or picking up a Jon Garland like guy down the road, letting him have a few sub-par years, and allowing him to bloom?

Prospects come and go. I'd rather give a lot of that up for a ton of insurance and improvement for 2005. Then, lets worry about 2006 after the WS parade, when free agent signings begin.I didn't mean that you never trade a prospect - only that you can't be reckless about it. The idea of "who cares who we give up, we have to go for it" is one I hear all the time. And the difference between developing your own player and picking up a free agent is not just the obvious one - cost - but the fact that he's your property for at least 6 years.

Among the prospects, I would consider two to be nearly untouchable: McCarthy and Anderson. That means I'd have to be getting something back with serious value. A rental doesn't qualify. I think you also have to look at what you have. The Sox are stacked with OF prospects, and they're not going to be able to open roster spots for all these guys. In this situation, you try to deal some of these guys to fill holes. Deal what you have too much of for what you need. The Sox have several good pitching prospects other than McCarthy, but none are close to being ready. McCarthy is so close to being ready he's almost not a prospect anymore. It's not for nothing that every other team wants him as the centerpiece of a deal.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2005, 01:12 PM
The Sox don't automatically need an impact player....another good arm for the bullpen, a decent back up middle infielder which pushes Willie Harris off the roster and your team overall is stronger top to bottom.

That's all the Sox really NEED.

Lip

mdep524
07-30-2005, 04:19 PM
I'll be very disappointed. And quite frankly, I'm starting to worry that this deadline will come and go without the Sox making a move. Where is the trade the Sox are gonna make? Burnett is basically off the market. Unless the Sox have a sudden change of heart with Frank being injured, and they decide to take on Lowell's contract, we can forget about the Burnett deal. Schmidt doesn't look to be going anywhere. Ditto for Vizquel. Eyre could be had, but why bother? Acquiring Eyre only makes sense if we trade Marte in another deal. The Devil Rays are asking for a load for Huff and Baez, and already almost traded them to other teams. Unless the price drops fast, I don't know that either of them will be coming here.

The Reds bats (Dunn, Griffey, Pena, Kearns) are not available. The same can likely be said for Overbay. Guardado seems to be more available, though if I'm not mistaken Olney said something at the beginning of the 10:00 a.m. SportsCenter about Guardado being traded to the Red Sox, depending on whether he will waive his no-trade clause to go there. And lastly, Billy Wagner likely can't be had unless the Sox can come up with a starting pitcher to give the Phillies. So where is the trade to be made? Unless KW is quietly working on a trade for someone who hasn't been rumored to be available, it's looking like we're going to be left out of this. The one thing I am disappointed, or at least frustrated, with is lesser teams' insistence that they are still in the race and refusal to trade- there is no question that non-waiver deadline should be moved back a week or two into August when things become clearer. SF (planning for '06) and Philadelphia would make ideal trading partners with the Sox- Schmidt, Vizquel and Wagner should be realistic targets.

If any team should be ready to get younger it should be the Giants, who should welcome young guns like McCarthy, Sweeney, etc. to rebuild an old, mediocre roster. And the Phillies starting pitching won't get them anywhere this year, so what good is holding onto Wagner? I know both of those teams have fans to appease but it'd be nice if they helped us out. :smile:

Jjav829
07-30-2005, 04:29 PM
If no other AL team makes a significant move, I would not be too disappointed if the Sox stand pat at the deadline. Think about it guys, MLB sets up this Armageddon July 31 trading deadline and its like if you don't make a move you're DOOMED!!! It's as almost as artificial as Sweetest Day, a "holiday" Hallmark invented to boost sales, then people begin to believe it is "real" (though obvious there's not the same profit incentive for MLB as there is for Hallmark).

The Sox have cruised to the best record in baseball. There are only four teams in the whole AL to even worry about- Oakland, Anaheim, Boston and New York. Nobody else is going to compete with us as is, regular season or playoffs. If those teams don't improve at the deadline, we are still the best team in baseball, period.

So let's not treat this trade deadline as anything more significant than it is.

Do you honestly believe this time is such a clear cut favorite that they shouldn't be improved somewhat? I don't. I would like to see a move or two made to improve this team. IMO, there is no team that is so good that they shouldn't make a move and the Sox are no exception. I don't care about having the best record in baseball. That's a nice accomplishment but it means absolutely nothing come playoff time. All you have to do is look at the last three World Series winners for proof of that. They were all wild card teams. They didn't have the best record in baseball. They didn't even win their division. But they each had teams that were set up the best for postseason play and they all played great at the right time.

I just don't see how you can say we're the best team in baseball, period. In fact, I've been preaching for a while now that in my opinion, the most dangerous team in baseball come the playoffs is the Houston Astros. I would hate to have to face them in the playoffs. I just don't see how you can say that nobody is going to compete with us come playoff time. That baffles me.

Domeshot17
07-30-2005, 04:36 PM
I Completely Agree with J-Jav. I think we have as good of a chance as any AL team, but I do not think it is automatic. I think the biggest thing we need is a consistent bat. I don't know if it is Aubrey Huff, but I think he could really go on a tear here. Who is not going to be stoaked from going from baseballs worse team to the leagues best. I honestly believe the reason why the last 3 world series have been by wild cards is because wild card teams generally make a few trades to fine tune and improve the team and enter the post season hot and streaking, making them harder to cool down.

Jjav829
07-30-2005, 04:50 PM
The one thing I am disappointed, or at least frustrated, with is lesser teams' insistence that they are still in the race and refusal to trade- there is no question that non-waiver deadline should be moved back a week or two into August when things become clearer. SF (planning for '06) and Philadelphia would make ideal trading partners with the Sox- Schmidt, Vizquel and Wagner should be realistic targets.

If any team should be ready to get younger it should be the Giants, who should welcome young guns like McCarthy, Sweeney, etc. to rebuild an old, mediocre roster. And the Phillies starting pitching won't get them anywhere this year, so what good is holding onto Wagner? I know both of those teams have fans to appease but it'd be nice if they helped us out. :smile:

I agree with that. There comes a time where you have to realize that despite how close you are to the Wild Card, you're not going to win the World Series. The Phillies are a perfect example. They could trade Wagner and get a few nice players for the future. Yet because they are close to the Wild Card, they won't sell off. Even if the Phillies somehow make it, they're going nowhere. They are simply not good enough. The problem there is that Ed Wade's job is on the line and selling off for the future could cost him his job. The Phillies would have been smart to fire Wade a month ago, named a new GM, and then told the new GM to do whatever he thinks is best even if that means selling off. The funny thing is that if you read what the Phillies fans say, they all want Wagner traded. They're looking to get some young players for Wagner because they don't think their team has a chance this year. Try reading this forum and threads like this one. (http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=26989) It's actually a funny forum. They absolutely hate Ed Wade and tear into him almost non-stop. You can't really blame them though.

Really, I have news for all these NL wild card contenders. The Houston Astros are winning this thing. There's no question in my mind. Marlins, Phillies, Mets, Nationals...you better hope the Braves slip and you overtake them because the Astros are winning the Wild Card. And if the Astros can add a bat like Huff, Lawton, etc. in the next 24 hours, they'll be even more likely to run away with the Wild Card.

Madvora
07-30-2005, 05:13 PM
My God, they're really going down to the wire with this one.
KW got Freddy Garcia on June 27th last year. This year, there aren't so many teams that want to help us out.

mdep524
07-30-2005, 05:15 PM
Do you honestly believe this time is such a clear cut favorite that they shouldn't be improved somewhat? I don't. I would like to see a move or two made to improve this team. IMO, there is no team that is so good that they shouldn't make a move and the Sox are no exception. I don't care about having the best record in baseball. That's a nice accomplishment but it means absolutely nothing come playoff time. All you have to do is look at the last three World Series winners for proof of that. They were all wild card teams. They didn't have the best record in baseball. They didn't even win their division. But they each had teams that were set up the best for postseason play and they all played great at the right time.

I just don't see how you can say we're the best team in baseball, period. In fact, I've been preaching for a while now that in my opinion, the most dangerous team in baseball come the playoffs is the Houston Astros. I would hate to have to face them in the playoffs. I just don't see how you can say that nobody is going to compete with us come playoff time. That baffles me. I definitely think the Sox should make a deal, if possible. Aubrey Huff, Billy Wagner, Omar Vizquel, Jason Schmidt, Ken Griffey Jr., Lyle Overbay and Eddie Guardado are all players I think the Sox should pursue aggressively. And I certainly do think there will be competition with us playoff time, I might have misstated that in my first post.

My only point is that is there are no deals to be made, and no other team in the AL improves either, the Sox are not at a comparative disadvantage for not making a deal. As of today, we have as good a chance to win this as anyone.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 05:15 PM
I just don't see how you can say we're the best team in baseball, period. In fact, I've been preaching for a while now that in my opinion, the most dangerous team in baseball come the playoffs is the Houston Astros. I would hate to have to face them in the playoffs. I just don't see how you can say that nobody is going to compete with us come playoff time. That baffles me.

I agree. You can certainly make the case that the Sox are the best team in baseball off record only, but a team like Houston matches up to us very well. The top of their rotation is filthy, and all they would need to do is win four simple games of a seven game series. That equates to two brilliant outings by Clemens and Oswalt being put away by Lidge. And that's it, we all go home.

Being in the place that the Sox are in, IMO it makes more sense to make a move than say a team who is still battling in their division or trying to sneak into the WildCard. Like the Cards, and unlike the other 28 teams in baseball, the Sox are pretty much a lock for the playoffs so they can afford to take a few big risks in terms of trading away the future for the present. No one but us and the Cards have that luxury because a lot of teams are still here on July 30th not knowing if they are buyers or sellers. The Sox need to take full advantage of this opportunity because we may never be a lock for the playoffs this early in the season again.

Go get Griffey, make a play fgor Huff, make a play for Guardado, Wagner, Baez, anyone. Throw all the eggs in one basket. If Sweeney & co. turn out to be great players on other teams, even better. We can sign them as FA's some years down the road. For now, lets get an offense and a bullpen that gives us a real chance to blow everyone else out of the water.

mdep524
07-30-2005, 05:18 PM
I agree with that. There comes a time where you have to realize that despite how close you are to the Wild Card, you're not going to win the World Series. The Phillies are a perfect example. They could trade Wagner and get a few nice players for the future. Yet because they are close to the Wild Card, they won't sell off. Even if the Phillies somehow make it, they're going nowhere. They are simply not good enough. The problem there is that Ed Wade's job is on the line and selling off for the future could cost him his job. The Phillies would have been smart to fire Wade a month ago, named a new GM, and then told the new GM to do whatever he thinks is best even if that means selling off. The funny thing is that if you read what the Phillies fans say, they all want Wagner traded. They're looking to get some young players for Wagner because they don't think their team has a chance this year. Try reading this forum and threads like this one. (http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=26989) It's actually a funny forum. They absolutely hate Ed Wade and tear into him almost non-stop. You can't really blame them though.

Really, I have news for all these NL wild card contenders. The Houston Astros are winning this thing. There's no question in my mind. Marlins, Phillies, Mets, Nationals...you better hope the Braves slip and you overtake them because the Astros are winning the Wild Card. And if the Astros can add a bat like Huff, Lawton, etc. in the next 24 hours, they'll be even more likely to run away with the Wild Card. Agreed there- the Phils are phony and the Astros will have a strangehold on the NL WC. I have friends in Philly, and they all DESPISE Ed Wade passionately and want to run him out of town. The fact that he still has his job is baffling.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 05:26 PM
My only point is that is there are no deals to be made, and no other team in the AL improves either, the Sox are not at a comparative disadvantage for not making a deal. As of today, we have as good a chance to win this as anyone.

Yes, we may have as good of a chance as anyone else, but it would be stupid not to increase that chance. When your owner and GM know that you are a pretty much a lock for the postseason a month before the deadline, you have a distinct advantage. Nothing was done early, so something has to be done now.

For all I know we could win the whole damn thing with the roster we have. Bobby Jenks may save ten games in the playoffs with a 0.00 ERA and 35 K's, but I'm willing to bet he doesn't. Aaron Rowand may hit three game-winning HR's in the World Series, but I'm guessing he'll probably keep swinging at the first pitch when there's a runner on first and hitting into double plays.

Anything CAN happen, but I'd be a lot more comfortable taking some better players into the postseason. Anything that takes this team from a 'chance' to a 'favorite' is what I'd like to see right now.

SoxyStu
07-30-2005, 05:31 PM
I seriously won't be throwing my head into a sink full of ice water. We've done exceptional with what we have.

Although more difficult, moves can still be made later.

Daver
07-30-2005, 05:32 PM
The Sox better go out and get a bat before October, they need that much more than anything else.

Optipessimism
07-30-2005, 05:43 PM
The Sox better go out and get a bat before October, they need that much more than anything else.

I agree, and it has to be a big bat.

We've been under the radar long enough. It's time to reveal ourself to the rest of the world and show everyone, on the biggest stage of them all, just how good we are.

balke
07-30-2005, 05:53 PM
I'll be disappointed if we do something stupid. I think one of the Sox' best moves is no move at the moment. We have every position filled by a productive player. Upgrading at one position in a lot of these trades means downgrading another position. We've seen our bench, Those players are not welcome to the roster full-time (Besides possibly Gload, and NOT in RF). Sox need a minor-league cost upgrade IMO. Even then, they shouldn't sell themselves short for a player that's not going to be stand-out if they are giving up Mccarthy/Anderson. I believe in this team. I don't think 1 or 2 moves can make us clear cut champions over the Cardinals. But, I'd welcome the match-up right now of Cards v. Sox. I'd welcome anyone to play this team, even Oakland.

downstairs
07-30-2005, 06:06 PM
The Sox better go out and get a bat before October, they need that much more than anything else.

Unfortunately October is 3pm tomorrow for all intents and purposes.

No one is claiming anyone off waivers. 80% of the MLB thinks they're "in it."

I'd love to see a big-time bat and a bunch of pitchers. Starters or relievers are fine with me, because if we pick up anyone better than El Duque and/or Jose, one or both of them will be in the pen come playoff time.

Lets just finish this thing off like we haven't been able to do since opening day 1918.

downstairs
07-30-2005, 06:07 PM
I'd welcome anyone to play this team, even Oakland.

Well that's partially the point. Take Oakland. For some reason we don't match up well against them. Throw a bat and a major upgrade in pitching in there, maybe now we own them?

balke
07-30-2005, 06:11 PM
Well that's partially the point. Take Oakland. For some reason we don't match up well against them. Throw a bat and a major upgrade in pitching in there, maybe now we own them?


There's no pitching upgrade available over Buehrle/Garland or possibly Garcia. Schmidt is the only one possibly better than Garcia, and I don't see him going anywhere. I'd like to see Schmidt, just won't happen. I think we can beat Oakland. I think oakland is due for a cooling down period too, where they may lose a lot of wild card ground. We'll see what happens, less than 24 hours left.

As far as a big bat goes, the best shot at that will probably be via the waiver.