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Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 10:34 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050727soxbits,1,524601.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

Brian26
07-27-2005, 10:36 PM
Cross your fingers that everything is ok and Frank can come back this year and help us win this thing. It would only be right.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 10:42 PM
Brian:

Just a gut feeling but I think this is more serious then first believed. To me it appears to be more then just 'normal' swelling.

Lip

samram
07-27-2005, 10:47 PM
Brian:

Just a gut feeling but I think this is more serious then first believed. To me it appears to be more then just 'normal' swelling.

Lip

I agree Lip. I hate to have pessimistic thoughts, especially about Frank, but it's a lot to expect of the ankle to support a 275 pound guy when it's already not fully-healed from surgery, and it's clearly not healing well.

JB98
07-27-2005, 10:53 PM
I agree Lip. I hate to have pessimistic thoughts, especially about Frank, but it's a lot to expect of the ankle to support a 275 pound guy when it's already not fully-healed from surgery, and it's clearly not healing well.

The good news is it looks like we'll know the prognosis tomorrow. If we get bad news, KW still has a few days before the non-waiver deadline to get us another bat. We'll need one if Frank is done.

Optipessimism
07-28-2005, 12:08 AM
If Franks turns out to be done, then I think we may have seen the last of him in a Sox uniform. :(:

If this is the case I would think we would get a hitter who's either signed for a couple of more years or doesn't have much experience in the majors and is arbitration eligible. The names Overbay, Huff, and Griffey all seem to fit here.

I hope Frank comes back though, but as others have been saying, I'm not very optimistic about the situation. I haven't been since he started taking all those terrible swings shortly after returning to Chicago.

Flight #24
07-28-2005, 07:55 AM
If Franks turns out to be done, then I think we may have seen the last of him in a Sox uniform. :(:

If this is the case I would think we would get a hitter who's either signed for a couple of more years or doesn't have much experience in the majors and is arbitration eligible. The names Overbay, Huff, and Griffey all seem to fit here.

I hope Frank comes back though, but as others have been saying, I'm not very optimistic about the situation. I haven't been since he started taking all those terrible swings shortly after returning to Chicago.

The question is: if Frank's done for the year, what are his options? IMO, he'll get only a contingent, small offer (say $5mil. Something I think the Sox could easily afford to match. I remain hopeful that they'll keep him.

Iguana775
07-28-2005, 08:10 AM
I hope KW goes out and gets another bat. I'm not sure if we can count on Frank being 100% healthy.

cheeses_h_rice
07-28-2005, 09:14 AM
The question is: if Frank's done for the year, what are his options? IMO, he'll get only a contingent, small offer (say $5mil. Something I think the Sox could easily afford to match. I remain hopeful that they'll keep him.

Everything I've heard and read seems to indicate that the White Sox are prepared to exercise their $3.5 million buyout, rather than renegotiate or pay Frank the $10 million he'd be owed for 2006.

Which sucks, of course. IF Frank can heal up over the offseason, I really wish KW and JR would work with Frank to ensure he retires and goes into the HoF a White Sox.

voodoochile
07-28-2005, 09:20 AM
Everything I've heard and read seems to indicate that the White Sox are prepared to exercise their $3.5 million buyout, rather than renegotiate or pay Frank the $10 million he'd be owed for 2006.

Which sucks, of course. IF Frank can heal up over the offseason, I really wish KW and JR would work with Frank to ensure he retires and goes into the HoF a White Sox.

MLB now makes those decisions, so no matter what, Frank will go in as a Sox player.

Hope Frank comes back healthy for the playoffs and helps the team bring home a trophy.

cheeses_h_rice
07-28-2005, 09:33 AM
MLB now makes those decisions, so no matter what, Frank will go in as a Sox player.

Hope Frank comes back healthy for the playoffs and helps the team bring home a trophy.

What I meant was that I hope Frank's last uniform before heading into the HoF would be a White Sox uni.

After all he's done with this team, there's no way he would NOT wear black & white on induction day, but I would not want his service sullied by a token few years on some other team.

jshanahanjr
07-28-2005, 09:48 AM
Get well Big Man! Your team needs you.

Can the Sox get Shingo back and option Vizcaino back to the Brewers?

Flight #24
07-28-2005, 10:10 AM
Everything I've heard and read seems to indicate that the White Sox are prepared to exercise their $3.5 million buyout, rather than renegotiate or pay Frank the $10 million he'd be owed for 2006.

Which sucks, of course. IF Frank can heal up over the offseason, I really wish KW and JR would work with Frank to ensure he retires and goes into the HoF a White Sox.

Well, KW was already quoted about a month back as saying they were open to renegotiating Frank's deal. I don't know why they wouldn't. If they can get him at a net cost of about $2-3mil (on top of the buyout), with future year salaries contingent on health, why wouldn't they want to keep a guy who if healthy is a dominant offensive player, and a franchise icon, hall of famer, chasing 500HR guy to boot?

I don't see them getting into any bidding war for Frank, but I also don't see any other team ponying up big $$$ for Frank. The DH market isn't great, with teams that might use a new one mostly being non-contenders. And Frank doesn't have the national name that would get someone to overpay for an attendance bump. He might get slightly more somewhere else, but I'd bet he'd rather return to the Sox for slightly less, contend, and stay with 1 team than jump around late in his career.

EDIT: Unless of course, he signs with Boras and refuses to let Sox docs look at his ankle....... (but Frank's way too classy for that!)

ChiSoxPatF
07-28-2005, 10:15 AM
If Franks turns out to be done, then I think we may have seen the last of him in a Sox uniform. :(:

If this is the case I would think we would get a hitter who's either signed for a couple of more years or doesn't have much experience in the majors and is arbitration eligible. The names Overbay, Huff, and Griffey all seem to fit here.

I hope Frank comes back though, but as others have been saying, I'm not very optimistic about the situation. I haven't been since he started taking all those terrible swings shortly after returning to Chicago.

I don't want to turn this into a rumor thread but just commenting on those three names: Melvin said Overbay is off the market. We're looking at Baez and Huff. And I don't think anything serious has been discussed about Griffey.

I agree with Lip and SamRam though. Something just doesn't feel right about this and its kind of worrying me. Lets hope this is all just our innate Sox-fan paranoia.

Vernam
07-28-2005, 11:04 AM
Lets hope this is all just our innate Sox-fan paranoia."Innate" or "inane?" :D:

I'll be shocked if they don't add a hitter before Aug 1, and I'll be dumbfounded if they don't do so before the waiver deadline. Sure, adding someone like Huff would cause a logjam when Frank comes back, but that's way preferable to finding out too late that Frank ain't coming back in 2005. They need to pull the trigger now, because only the dregs will be available after Aug 1.

VC, both innately and inanely paranoid

Ol' No. 2
07-28-2005, 11:09 AM
"Innate" or "inane?" :D:

I'll be shocked if they don't add a hitter before Aug 1, and I'll be dumbfounded if they don't do so before the waiver deadline. Sure, adding someone like Huff would cause a logjam when Frank comes back, but that's way preferable to finding out too late that Frank ain't coming back in 2005. They need to pull the trigger now, because only the dregs will be available after Aug 1.

VC, both innately and inanely paranoidNot necessarily. Someone with a big contract will usually pass through waivers. Larry Walker was traded after the deadline last year. It becomes harder with someone like Griffey, who is in the other league and thus has to be bypassed by all the other teams in both leagues. But it's not impossible.

Frankly Missing
07-28-2005, 11:33 AM
As an RN, I worry incessantly about Franks foot. If an infection enters the bone it generally takes months of treatment.

kojak
07-28-2005, 12:05 PM
What I meant was that I hope Frank's last uniform before heading into the HoF would be a White Sox uni.

After all he's done with this team, there's no way he would NOT wear black & white on induction day, but I would not want her service sullied by a token few years on some other team.

I heard that! No one could tarnish the career of Michael Jordan. Until a certain number 23 decided to don the Wizards jersey. How many athletes get to have their last play of their career decide a championship? (Elway maybe) That was MJ's legacy until he decided to go and blow it because of his own ego.

I cluck my tongue in disdain...

JB98
07-28-2005, 01:04 PM
Everything I've heard and read seems to indicate that the White Sox are prepared to exercise their $3.5 million buyout, rather than renegotiate or pay Frank the $10 million he'd be owed for 2006.

Which sucks, of course. IF Frank can heal up over the offseason, I really wish KW and JR would work with Frank to ensure he retires and goes into the HoF a White Sox.

I'm sure KW and JR will work with Frank to keep him in Chicago. From a business perspective, though, they have to buy out Frank's contract and try to keep him at a reduced rate. At this stage of his career, Frank just isn't going to command $10 million on the open market. The Sox would be fools to pay him that because we can no longer count on Frank to be healthy for 140-150 games. And considering that the Sox are not the Yankees and money is an object, some of that $$$$ would be better spent to shore up other areas.

I'm confident Frank will finish his career in a White Sox uniform. I believe he wants to be remembered as a player who played his entire career with one team, and I believe management will show some loyalty to Frank as well. However, I am concerned that Frank's career might be coming to a premature end. This ankle situation has me very worried. :(:

Beauty35thStreet
07-28-2005, 01:43 PM
I agree wholeheartedly, what makes this inflammation worse than his previous inflammation. :whiner: However, assumming Frank is a healthy guy, I think it'd be pretty hard for him to get osteo :D:

As an RN, I worry incessantly about Franks foot. If an infection enters the bone it generally takes months of treatment.

Frank, Kenny, and Jerry all know that the 3.5 million buyout will occur, but the good news is that Kenny wants Frank (at least one month ago), Frank wants to be back, the fans want Frank back, and I think Jerry wants Frank back. They all want him to finish his career here, so they might be willing on a 2-3 year contract, hopefully three.

Thank goodness the hard-headed Sox fans, not die-hard Sox fans, but the hard-headed ones are finally showing up to games to give the team some revenue so they can add some beef to player's contracts.:cool:

nodiggity59
07-28-2005, 01:48 PM
No offense to Frank, but is anyone here excited to be paying Frank less than $8mil next year?

Vernam
07-28-2005, 01:53 PM
Not necessarily. Someone with a big contract will usually pass through waivers. Larry Walker was traded after the deadline last year. It becomes harder with someone like Griffey, who is in the other league and thus has to be bypassed by all the other teams in both leagues. But it's not impossible.You're right re: big contracts, though I don't think Cincy would wait 'til then if they're planning to deal Griffey. They're not one of the teams hovering near the Wild Card race. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, so long as it doesn't cost us Rowand (who was mentioned in the earlier Griffey speculation). Picking him up via waivers would hopefully be cheaper than Rowand and a prospect or two.

EDIT: And so long as we don't eat his whole contract!

VC

RKMeibalane
07-28-2005, 02:04 PM
No offense to Frank, but is anyone here excited to be paying Frank less than $8mil next year?

Absolutely. He's not worth that much money, and the Sox have other holes they still need to fill. Of course, he's not the only overpaid player on this team.

:walnuts

*gulp*

Ol' No. 2
07-28-2005, 03:24 PM
You're right re: big contracts, though I don't think Cincy would wait 'til then if they're planning to deal Griffey. They're not one of the teams hovering near the Wild Card race. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, so long as it doesn't cost us Rowand (who was mentioned in the earlier Griffey speculation). Picking him up via waivers would hopefully be cheaper than Rowand and a prospect or two.

EDIT: And so long as we don't eat his whole contract!

VCYou're not going to get Griffey off waivers. But after the deadline, he'd have to clear waivers to complete a trade. Remember, it's revocable waivers after Sunday.

Flight #24
07-28-2005, 03:29 PM
You're not going to get Griffey off waivers. But after the deadline, he'd have to clear waivers to complete a trade. Remember, it's revocable waivers after Sunday.

The real problem with a post-deadline Griffey trade is that if the Spankees can't get themselves a halfway decent SP, they may well say "Heck - we'll just take all the offensive upgrades we can get", claim Griff, and if Cinci lets him go just pay his salary. The good of that is that I'm not sure that that'll really help them make the playoffs and it's one more potential addition that doesn't go to a team we'd face in the postseason. The bad is obviously - we wouldn't get him either.

Ol' No. 2
07-28-2005, 05:01 PM
The real problem with a post-deadline Griffey trade is that if the Spankees can't get themselves a halfway decent SP, they may well say "Heck - we'll just take all the offensive upgrades we can get", claim Griff, and if Cinci lets him go just pay his salary. The good of that is that I'm not sure that that'll really help them make the playoffs and it's one more potential addition that doesn't go to a team we'd face in the postseason. The bad is obviously - we wouldn't get him either.What would the Yankees do with ANOTHER CF? They've already got Bernie Williams and Bubba Crosby.:redneck

TheOldRoman
07-28-2005, 05:34 PM
The real problem with a post-deadline Griffey trade is that if the Spankees can't get themselves a halfway decent SP, they may well say "Heck - we'll just take all the offensive upgrades we can get", claim Griff, and if Cinci lets him go just pay his salary. The good of that is that I'm not sure that that'll really help them make the playoffs and it's one more potential addition that doesn't go to a team we'd face in the postseason. The bad is obviously - we wouldn't get him either.
I believe the waivers process goes by teams' won loss records for the previous years. The worst team in the NL last year (Arizona) would get the first chance at Griffey, and so on. The worst AL team last year would then get the option, and it would go on until the White Sox turn. If nobody claimed him by the time he got to us, he would be ours. The Yankees had a better record than us last year, so Griffey wouldn't have to pass by them to clear waivers.

Flight #24
07-28-2005, 05:42 PM
I believe the waivers process goes by teams' won loss records for the previous years. The worst team in the NL last year (Arizona) would get the first chance at Griffey, and so on. The worst AL team last year would then get the option, and it would go on until the White Sox turn. If nobody claimed him by the time he got to us, he would be ours. The Yankees had a better record than us last year, so Griffey wouldn't have to pass by them to clear waivers.

Really? That's interesting. However, I don't think it really matters since I don't see the Sox puttnig in a claim and possibly ending up with that deal on their books. The Yanks, however, might.

However, if the Sox were willing to claim him, of the contending teams this year, the only one that was worse than us last year was Baltimore. I suppose they could want Griffey, but it's a lot less likely than the Spankees.

beckett21
07-28-2005, 06:08 PM
Brian:

Just a gut feeling but I think this is more serious then first believed. To me it appears to be more then just 'normal' swelling.

Lip

Couple quick points. I'm on vacation, so my access is somewhat limited--at risk to my own health. :redneck

Basically, it is no surprise to me that Frank continues to suffer from pain and swelling. Pain and swelling following foot surgery can continue anywhere from 3-6 months to 18-24 months or more, depending on the individual and the type of surgery. While it may not be considered *normal*, it is by no means unusual to experience prolonged swelling and/or pain. Foot injuries can be tricky, especially in a 275-lb professional athlete.

All that can be done now obviously is to wait for the test results and go from there. He won't feel 100% at any point this season--that's not going to happen. The doctors just need to be sure that he is not causing any further damage in there by playing. Assuming that is the case, hopefully he will be able to rejoin the team in a couple weeks. Depends on how he feels, and how much pain he is able to tolerate.

I'm strictly speculating because I haven't seen too much information on the subject other than the link provided in this thread. I'll try to check in when I can and lend my opinion FWIW. Just doesn't seem like a lot of information to go on right at the moment.

TheOldRoman
07-28-2005, 06:41 PM
Am I the only one scared that we haven't yet heard the test results?
I get the feeling that the results were bad, and KW told them not to make them public until he can acquire another hitter, so it doesn't drive up his price.

I hope I'm wrong.

Ol' No. 2
07-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Really? That's interesting. However, I don't think it really matters since I don't see the Sox puttnig in a claim and possibly ending up with that deal on their books. The Yanks, however, might.

However, if the Sox were willing to claim him, of the contending teams this year, the only one that was worse than us last year was Baltimore. I suppose they could want Griffey, but it's a lot less likely than the Spankees.I thought it was this year's record, but I'm not certain. Anyway, I do know for sure that all the teams in the same league as the player get first crack before any team in the other league can claim him.

Daver
07-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Couple quick points. I'm on vacation, so my access is somewhat limited--at risk to my own health.

What the hell are you doing posting when you're on vacation?

I guarantee nobody is going to replace you as the Official Physician.





:bandance:

PaleHoseGeorge
07-28-2005, 07:03 PM
Couple quick points. I'm on vacation, so my access is somewhat limited--at risk to my own health. :redneck

Basically, it is no surprise to me that Frank continues to suffer from pain and swelling. Pain and swelling following foot surgery can continue anywhere from 3-6 months to 18-24 months or more, depending on the individual and the type of surgery. While it may not be considered *normal*, it is by no means unusual to experience prolonged swelling and/or pain. Foot injuries can be tricky, especially in a 275-lb professional athlete.

All that can be done now obviously is to wait for the test results and go from there. He won't feel 100% at any point this season--that's not going to happen. The doctors just need to be sure that he is not causing any further damage in there by playing. Assuming that is the case, hopefully he will be able to rejoin the team in a couple weeks. Depends on how he feels, and how much pain he is able to tolerate.

I'm strictly speculating because I haven't seen too much information on the subject other than the link provided in this thread. I'll try to check in when I can and lend my opinion FWIW. Just doesn't seem like a lot of information to go on right at the moment.

Hey, not even Dan McGrath, George Knue, and the rest of the unbiased crew at Cubune Sports keeps a podiatrist on staff to discuss the condition of Frank's foot like we have here at WSI!

Good stuff... and enjoy your vacation!
:cool:

TheOldRoman
07-28-2005, 07:45 PM
Good stuff... and enjoy your vacation!
:cool:
Thats the first time I have seen PHG say that without first sending the person to the Roadhouse.:D:

Lip Man 1
07-28-2005, 08:15 PM
Unless they have changed things waiver claims are done in reverse order. In other words the worst team in the league has first crack at all waiver players and so on up the line. The Sox would pick last by virture of the fact that they have the best record.

Lip

TheOldRoman
07-28-2005, 08:21 PM
Unless they have changed things waiver claims are done in reverse order. In other words the worst team in the league has first crack at all waiver players and so on up the line. The Sox would pick last by virture of the fact that they have the best record.

Lip
IIRC, it goes off of last year's record, not this year's.

Brian26
07-28-2005, 09:07 PM
Thats the first time I have seen PHG say that without first sending the person to the Roadhouse.:D:

LOL!!! Post of the week!

mjmcend
07-28-2005, 09:11 PM
"If a player doesn't clear waivers -- in other words, if he's claimed by another team or teams -- the club requesting waivers may withdraw the waiver request.

If the club doesn't withdraw the waiver request, the player's contract is assigned in the following manner:





(A) If only one claim is entered, the player's contract is assigned to that claiming club. (B) If more than one club in the same league makes claims, the club currently lower in the standings gets the player.

(C) If clubs in both leagues claim the player, preference shall always go to the club in the same league as the club requesting waivers.


There are other, more esoteric rules involved here. For example, during the first 30 days of the season, the previous season's final standings are used to determine claim order, rather than the current standings."


http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html


So we have the lowest priority in waiver transactions. So that pretty much means any remotley meaningful trade will have to be done before sunday since I doubt another contender will let the white sox better themselves if they can stop it.

Soxzilla
07-28-2005, 09:17 PM
So we have the lowest priority in waiver transactions. So that pretty much means any remotley meaningful trade will have to be done before sunday since I doubt another contender will let the white sox better themselves if they can stop it.



Yeah. But isn't there some sort of etiquette that teams' general managers follow when dealing with waivers?


Like, if the White Sox and the Blue Jays have a deal where they send players through waivers, and it's basically a DONE deal, but, say, the Angels sneak in and grab the player. It ruins the Angels credibility and people don't deal with them?


That's what I heard, but it could have just been b.s. ... and I heard it a LONG time ago.

TheOldRoman
07-28-2005, 09:22 PM
"If a player doesn't clear waivers -- in other words, if he's claimed by another team or teams -- the club requesting waivers may withdraw the waiver request.


So we have the lowest priority in waiver transactions. So that pretty much means any remotley meaningful trade will have to be done before sunday since I doubt another contender will let the white sox better themselves if they can stop it.
Damn, I guess that means Kenny will have to put together a package for Griffey within the next 48 hours. The Yankees would claim him off of waivers.

owensmouth
07-29-2005, 01:27 AM
Damn, I guess that means Kenny will have to put together a package for Griffey within the next 48 hours. The Yankees would claim him off of waivers.
If they are gonna spend the type of money to get Griffey, they would have spent that money on Beltran. Remember, for them, everything is roughly 35% more because of their already bloated payroll. The Yankees won't take Griffey.

Flight #24
07-29-2005, 08:02 AM
If they are gonna spend the type of money to get Griffey, they would have spent that money on Beltran. Remember, for them, everything is roughly 35% more because of their already bloated payroll. The Yankees won't take Griffey.

Don't bet against George making what moves he can make to try and make the playoffs. If he can't get piching, he might just go for O & D.

mjmcend
07-29-2005, 09:36 AM
If they are gonna spend the type of money to get Griffey, they would have spent that money on Beltran. Remember, for them, everything is roughly 35% more because of their already bloated payroll. The Yankees won't take Griffey.

But their luxury tax is going away since the money they are spending on their 1 trillion dollar stadium can be used as a write-off of sorts, so assuming their spending limit is 200 mil + 35% luxury tax, the money they were spending on the tax will be available for payroll in the coming years.

Dan H
07-29-2005, 11:30 AM
I think the Sox are going to start thinking of a future without Frank. The serious injuries have been piling up over the years and he has lost some major playing time. I don't think we can ever expect the see the old Frank. Meanwhile, the Sox will need someone to pick up the slack.