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View Full Version : *Official* July 27 at KC "It ain't over yet!" Postgame Thread


soltrain21
07-27-2005, 05:38 PM
Sox play the game under protest with good reason.


This one ain't over yet, folks.

gobears1987
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
yeah I don't count this as a loss yet. We will win the protest. ****ing Royals.

samram
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
Have at it if you must.:D:

kittle42
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
Nice defense.

PAPChiSox729
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
I just got home. What is being protested?

Nard
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
Just got home from work to see this. Can someone explain what happened?

Joosh
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
If I remember correctly, other than Line-up players, they do not have to list other players. It's only a courtesey.

Mr. White Sox
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
Having Crazy in the late innings would've been nice.
Lame game, thanks for the off-day scheduling gods.

downstairs
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
What was the protest about?

I didn't hear it on the radio...

soltrain21
07-27-2005, 05:40 PM
Royals used a player that wasn't on the official lineup card.

Malgar 12
07-27-2005, 05:40 PM
They deserve to lose this game... pathetic defense...pathetic baserunning... and pathetic vizcaino. (trade for a bullpen arm pronto!):angry:

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 05:40 PM
Has a protest ever been upheld? It's over and we move onto Baltimore and the next Sox killer, Eric Bedard.

No matter what, Ozzie has to answer to pulling Garland on 88 pitches. Gload's error was the icing on the cake, but it shouldn't have come to that had JG still been in there.

Hendu
07-27-2005, 05:40 PM
What happened? I had to watch the game on cbssportsline's gamecast b/c I was at work. Obviously, they don't give much detail. But from what I could see this was just a horrible game with bad fielding, bad baserunning, no timely hitting, etc.

eurotrash35
07-27-2005, 05:41 PM
Not much to say about this one besides :chunks

downstairs
07-27-2005, 05:41 PM
Royals used a player that wasn't on the official lineup card.

***? And the Umps did nothing about it?

More details... I didn't see/hear... going totally Internet today...

pczarapa
07-27-2005, 05:42 PM
He doesn't have to be on the scorecard, I wouldn't want to win like that anyway. We look to be in a real slump here. We've won one series, split one, and now lost two. Something needs to be kick started here. An oh yeah, nice job by Politte and Viscaino - NOT.

Mr. White Sox
07-27-2005, 05:42 PM
Has a protest ever been upheld? It's over and we move onto Baltimore and the next Sox killer, Eric Bedard.

No matter what, Ozzie has to answer to pulling Garland on 88 pitches. Gload's error was the icing on the cake, but it shouldn't have come to that had JG still been in there.

Nah, Cotts did his job. If Cotts looks bad out there, then you can question Ozzie, but he got the job done. Timely errors are what cost the team this game, last game, and against the Faux Sox.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 05:42 PM
They deserve to lose this game... pathetic defense...pathetic baserunning... and pathetic vizcaino. (trade for a bullpen arm pronto!):angry:

Viz was tired from pitching in the past 2 games and shouldn't have even been available... but thanks to Ozzie and his merry-go-round of relievers, he had to come in.

soltrain21
07-27-2005, 05:42 PM
***? And the Umps did nothing about it?

More details... I didn't see/hear... going totally Internet today...


The Royals brought in a pitcher who was not listed on the lineup card. Ozzie came out to argue it and viola...game is under protest!

SoxSpeed22
07-27-2005, 05:43 PM
The only consolation for this one is hell of a job by Bobby Jenks and Dustin.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 05:44 PM
Nah, Cotts did his job. If Cotts looks bad out there, then you can question Ozzie, but he got the job done. Timely errors are what cost the team this game, last game, and against the Faux Sox.

Ozzie said that JG had to go deep as the pen is strapped. He was cruising... only 88 pitches. Neal did do his job, but Politte had nothing. Just an awful, awful game. Bad managing, defense, situational hitting, baserunning... you name it.

MarySwiss
07-27-2005, 05:44 PM
I believe it arises from the fact that KC put in a relief pitcher who was not on the line-up card. IIRC, as long as a player is on the roster, that's all that matters; the line-up card is a courtesy thing.

And who blew the 5-0 lead? They won. We lost. Painful, but it's not like we dropped out of first place. Let's just deal with it and move on.

SoxFan78
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
WHY THE F IS VISCAINO ON OUR F'N TEAM? HE SUCKED AGAINST BOSTON, AND HE SUCKED TODAY!!!!

4 f'n singles, one pathetic strike out. You get paid to get people out, not walk people and let up 4 singles to the worst team in the AL.

Lets trade him for a bag of balls, HE F'N SUCKS!!!!

The only thing I protest is that he got in the god damn game.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

downstairs
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
The Royals brought in a pitcher who was not listed on the lineup card. Ozzie came out to argue it and viola...game is under protest!

Oh well, I could care less... just interested. Thanks.

Umps don't lose games. Giving up a 5 run lead does.

samram
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
Viz was tired from pitching in the past 2 games and shouldn't have even been available... but thanks to Ozzie and his merry-go-round of relievers, he had to come in.

Yeah. I didn't get to see much of the game due to work, but Ozzie has to let Garland pitch over one baserunner with a three run lead. I remember Ozzie being a gut-feeling type manager, but he's become very LaRussa like lately, which isn't always a bad thing, but when it leads to a premature hook like it did today, it's a bad thing.

DaleJRFan
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
The only consolation for this one is hell of a job by Bobby Jenks.

Agreed. Jenks looked outstanding pitching out of the bases-loaded jam. Dye hit a big homer and Garland was killer. The Sox seem to be making LOTS of mental mistakes. Pick-offs, caught-stealing, errors galour... Something's gotta give...

HITMEN OF 77
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
The only bright side of today's game, was it ruined ESPN's timing and schedule.

JB98
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
I'm tired of Ozzie trotting out the 'B' lineup. This isn't spring training. These games count.

Juice16
07-27-2005, 05:46 PM
What in the world is going on? Defense, baserunning, bullpen and two consecutive no shows by the offense. Yes they scored 5 runs today but nothing from the 6th-13th. This is clearly not the team from the first half. I'm starting to get flash backs of 2000.

Jurr
07-27-2005, 05:46 PM
There's going to be some butt chewing. Everybody's head is messed up with all of the trade rumors...nobody knows who may stay or who may go...who's being "upgraded"....it's affecting the team's play.

I can't wait until August 1.

samram
07-27-2005, 05:46 PM
Oh well, I could care less... just interested. Thanks.

Umps don't lose games. Giving up a 5 run lead does.

True, but this isn't about a judgment call by an umpire, which can't be protested. This is a rules violation. Now, I think the Sox should score on a guy who can't even made KC's lineup card, but that doesn't mean KC didn't cheat.

JB98
07-27-2005, 05:47 PM
WHY THE F IS VISCAINO ON OUR F'N TEAM? HE SUCKED AGAINST BOSTON, AND HE SUCKED TODAY!!!!

4 f'n singles, one pathetic strike out. You get paid to get people out, not walk people and let up 4 singles to the worst team in the AL.

Lets trade him for a bag of balls, HE F'N SUCKS!!!!

The only thing I protest is that he got in the god damn game.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

He got in the game because Guillen pulled Garland for no good reason and wasted Cotts for only one batter. We didn't have anybody left.

MadCitySoxFan
07-27-2005, 05:47 PM
I started drinking after Gload's error and by the time it was over, I was sauced. Vizcaino looked alright, actually. Jenks did well in the long relief position. We just couldn't get anything going against all the lousy Royals relievers. Having Pods miss on the hit and run and then get picked off didn't exactly help matters. Nunez and Camp both have ERAs above 7 and they finished the game for the Royals. Their relievers shut us out for 7 innings. So, I don't blame our pitching. The errors and the Royals relievers decided this game.

samram
07-27-2005, 05:47 PM
There's going to be some butt chewing. Everybody's head is messed up with all of the trade rumors...nobody knows who may stay or who may go...who's being "upgraded"....it's affecting the team's play.

I can't wait until August 1.

I think the exact same thing, Jurr, about their heads being a little screwed up with the trade rumors. I'll bet they come out smoking after this weekend or after any deal is announced.

DickAllen72
07-27-2005, 05:48 PM
WHY THE F IS VISCAINO ON OUR F'N TEAM? HE SUCKED AGAINST BOSTON, AND HE SUCKED TODAY!!!!

4 f'n singles, one pathetic strike out. You get paid to get people out, not walk people and let up 4 singles to the worst team in the AL.

Lets trade him for a bag of balls, HE F'N SUCKS!!!!

The only thing I protest is that he got in the god damn game.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Shingo, Shingo, oh where is Shingo???

BigHurt9394
07-27-2005, 05:48 PM
We need a bat and need it quick. We are playing just like we have the past two years except we are winning more games because our staff is sick, but once we get to the playoffs our staff wont be able to pick up the slack against other sick pitchers. WE NEED A BAT...a bullpen arm wouldnt hurt either.

SoxFan78
07-27-2005, 05:50 PM
He got in the game because Guillen pulled Garland for no good reason and wasted Cotts for only one batter. We didn't have anybody left.

He's a major leaguer, i would understand if he pitched 8 innings last night and then had to come in.

Hes a set up man, GET SOMEBODY OUT.

itsnotrequired
07-27-2005, 05:50 PM
I started drinking after Gload's error and by the time it was over, I was sauced.

I wish I had been drinking...

kittle42
07-27-2005, 05:50 PM
I'd like to hear some more about how Ross Gload should start more games.

Dick Allen
07-27-2005, 05:51 PM
Don't anybody dare give me all "the sky is falling" crap. This is a game that has to be won, and I don't give a damn how many games over .500 we are, we haven't played like it lately. Ozzie has thrown away too many games that happen to be the last game of a series, what with his weird lineups and use of pitchers. This game was absolute bull, and it's not going to get any easier in Baltimore. The Sox should never have been in a position where they had to use that worthless sack of garbage Vizcaino.

whitesoxfan
07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
Slip, slide into the Central Division Championship and make a hiccup in the playoffs. It is deja vu. I know no one is worried about the recent play (8-6) since the break, but 8-9 in the last 5 series against 1 playoff team (Boston) and 1 boarderline team (Oakland). We are not getting consistent hitting, bullpen, or defense. Or if anything the last few games- Consistently bad.

I hope they don't have the same "Whatever" attitude that they did after losing 2/3 to Detroit. I remember Guillen, Rowand, and Widger saying Boston was not "Must win" and "It will be a challenge playing the WS champions".

Someone needs to fire this team up.:angry:

anyone that calls Oakland a "borderline" team hasn't been paying attention the last month or so.

HITMEN OF 77
07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
I'd like to hear some more about how Ross Gload should start more games.

LOL, at least this will be 1 thread no one will be ripping Paulie.

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
Don't anybody dare give me all "the sky is falling" crap. This is a game that has to be won, and I don't give a damn how many games over .500 we are, we haven't played like it lately. Ozzie has thrown away too many games that happen to be the last game of a series, what with his weird lineups and use of pitchers. This game was absolute bull, and it's not going to get any easier in Baltimore. The Sox should never have been in a position where they had to use that worthless sack of garbage Vizcaino.

:prozac

downstairs
07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
I think the exact same thing, Jurr, about their heads being a little screwed up with the trade rumors. I'll bet they come out smoking after this weekend or after any deal is announced.

God, I hope the Sox are not that weak and psycologically messed up of a team. Come on!

We're not the Cubs. I really hope that is not an explaination for even a small part of what is going on.

If so, I would imagine playoff pressure would ensure a 3-game sweep loss?

I don't believe any of it.

Now... the one thing I will believe is maybe they're slacking with such a large lead.

Its Ozzie's time to shine now. Shake the team up. Call them all on the carpet.

Maybe leave to Baltimore without Viz, Willie and some others... let them find their own plane with their own money!

BigHurt9394
07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
ross gload should start more games. konerko sucks this year...he is good for a nice solo homerun on a fastball, but as long as he is hitting behind in the count(as he usually is) he is only good for a K or a nice little DP. Ross needs the ABs

soltrain21
07-27-2005, 05:52 PM
How many damn posts are you going to make about this?

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-27-2005, 05:53 PM
How many damn posts are you going to make about this?
Good question. I swear I just read the same exact post in What's the Score from this guy.

BainesHOF
07-27-2005, 05:53 PM
This team needs to get its act together. It's been reading too much of its non-Cubune press. We're not manufacturing nearly as many runs as we used to. Part of that is because of Guillen's weird lineups in the second half. He needs to go back to playing his "A" lineup most of the time. The important part of that is Podsednik and Iguchi need to be our 1-2 punch daily. Our success starts there.

As of now, the team is playing like Guillen has been managing - like these games don't mean much because we have a big cushion. I think the results speak for themselves. We need to start playing hungry again, and it starts with the manager. Lately, Guillen is managing far too much like Manuel.

Hendu
07-27-2005, 05:53 PM
Could someone describe what happened on the Gload error? I know there was a runner on 1st...was it a potential double-play ball? Was it a tough play or did he totally boot it? Thanks.

SoxSpeed22
07-27-2005, 05:54 PM
The Sox should never have been in a position where they had to use that worthless sack of garbage Vizcaino.Does anybody want to argue with this? NO!!!

TomParrish79
07-27-2005, 05:54 PM
we got way too many extremist on this board.


Ozzie will get on these guys asses if he thinks they arent putting out their best effort.

Enjoy the season dude damn.

HITMEN OF 77
07-27-2005, 05:55 PM
Your crazy....Boston and Oakland are both top 5 in AL teams IMO and we played 7 games against them.

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 05:55 PM
I do not mind watching the Sox play a few games here with some indifference. Better now than later. Keep guys fresh and get through the long upcoming August healthy and ready for September.

The team is still settling in after the loss of Frank again and still waiting for that shoe to truly hit the floor.

KW will probably make a move and the Sox will be fine, but let's not start panicing because the Sox are coasting a bit with a 12 game lead in late July.

DickAllen72
07-27-2005, 05:55 PM
I'd like to hear some more about how Ross Gload should start more games.

Cut Ross some slack. It's hard to stay real sharp when you hardly get a chance to play. Ross is an excellent defensive first baseman. So he made a bad error.

Iguchi made an error last night. Uribe made a couple last night. Even top defensive players make some errors.

mjmcend
07-27-2005, 05:56 PM
Viz was tired from pitching in the past 2 games and shouldn't have even been available... but thanks to Ozzie and his merry-go-round of relievers, he had to come in.

Last 3 games, plus he pitched two innings yesterday. Don't blame him at all. He was unfairly hung with the loss due to our inability to score a single run off the royal bullpen.

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 05:56 PM
This team needs to get its act together. It's been reading too much of its non-Cubune press. We're not manufacturing nearly as many runs as we used to. Part of that is because of Guillen's weird lineups in the second half. He needs to go back to playing his "A" lineup most of the time. The important part of that is Podsednik and Iguchi need to be our 1-2 punch daily. Our success starts there.

As of now, the team is playing like Guillen has been managing - like these games don't mean much because we have a big cushion. I think the results speak for themselves. We need to start playing hungry again, and it starts with the manager. Lately, Guillen is managing far too much like Manuel.

They don't mean much. We're not going to get caught by the Twins.

It's the dog days of summer. There are going to be some mental lapses. I'm not worried. We need to get everyone in games.

BigHurt9394
07-27-2005, 05:57 PM
The sox are not built for the playoffs right now...We still rely on the long ball too much, and as we all saw in 2000-2004 that may get you to the playoffs(2000) but easily lends itself to a nice 3 game sweep.

Dick Allen
07-27-2005, 05:57 PM
:prozacI've been waiting for the Sox to make it to a World Series a helluva lot longer than you, so ditch your pills.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 05:57 PM
I'd like to hear some more about how Ross Gload should start more games.

Me too! Me too! Where's this golden glove of lore? That was such a routine play, even Harris cringed.

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 05:58 PM
The sox are not built for the playoffs right now...We still rely on the long ball too much, and as we all saw in 2000-2004 that may get you to the playoffs(2000) but easily lends itself to a nice 3 game sweep.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

you were being funny right?

I'm out of this thread, don't know why I posted in it in the first place...:rolleyes:

downstairs
07-27-2005, 05:59 PM
The sox are not built for the playoffs right now...We still rely on the long ball too much, and as we all saw in 2000-2004 that may get you to the playoffs(2000) but easily lends itself to a nice 3 game sweep.

This is my fear. Prepare to be flamed to no end for saying it, but I fear it too.

I wish Kenny would just bet the farm on 2005. I don't care about 2006. I would have no problem with a .500 2006 if we were the World Champs for once.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 05:59 PM
Without question the worst effort of the season by far. To lose a series to the barnacles of the American League.....words can't describe it.

This should have been a nice comfortable win. It turned into a disaster because once again, the defense sucked and the offense decided to go to sleep for the last seven innings against a minor league pitching staff.

I hope Ozzie 'reminds' these guys that they haven't won crap yet, stop acting like it.

Oh as far as the protest, slim and none the chances of that being overturned. Baseball simply doesn't do that. It should never have gotten to that stage in the first place.

These guys have had their heads in their asses for the past eight days.

Lip

anewman35
07-27-2005, 06:00 PM
This is my fear. Prepare to be flamed to no end for saying it, but I fear it too.

I wish Kenny would just bet the farm on 2005. I don't care about 2006. I would have no problem with a .500 2006 if we were the World Champs for once.

What, exactly, is Kenny supposed to do to "bet the farm"? Keep in mind that other GMs have to WANT to make trades, Kenny can't just dictate them.

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 06:00 PM
I've been waiting for the Sox to make it to a World Series a helluva lot longer than you, so ditch your pills.


LOL. So that makes you entitled to irrationally bitch and moan?

shoota
07-27-2005, 06:00 PM
I like my baseball team to work like a smooth machine. I like to play air-tight defense and solid fundamental baseball, while letting the opposing team make mistakes under pressure. I like my team to have great pitching and a bullpen that doesn't walk batters, but goes right at them.

This is how the Sox played for much of the first half, and isn't how they're playing now.

Lay down the law Ozzie. Make them play smartball again.

MarySwiss
07-27-2005, 06:01 PM
Does anybody know what the actual RULE is about people being on lineup cards vs. rosters? That might--oh, I don't know--shed some light on whether the protest was legit.

BigHurt9394
07-27-2005, 06:01 PM
All im saying is that we finally have the staff to compete, but we still dont have the consistency in the hitting department. Am i wrong?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 06:02 PM
The sox are not built for the playoffs right now...We still rely on the long ball too much, and as we all saw in 2000-2004 that may get you to the playoffs(2000) but easily lends itself to a nice 3 game sweep.

That's funny. We lost because Kansas City got five of their runs off dingers and the Sox only got four off ours. But I guess Sweeney was really losing the game for KC when he hit that 3-run jack in the eighth.
:kukoo:

The stupidity of some Sox Fans on the importance of home runs never ceases to amaze me.
:o:

Dick Allen
07-27-2005, 06:02 PM
LOL. So that makes you entitled to irrationally bitch and moan?Irrational? Tell your story walking, pal.

downstairs
07-27-2005, 06:02 PM
I hope Ozzie 'reminds' these guys that they haven't won crap yet, stop acting like it.

Yep.

Now is the time for Ozzie to practice pushing the team in the right direction, and fast.

Of course, if we go .400 the rest of the season, I'll bet we still make the playoffs... so who cares, right?

Wrong. If we're down 1-3 in a playoff series, hopefully its not *then* that Ozzie begins learning how to get a team winning immediately and endlessly.

BigEdWalsh
07-27-2005, 06:03 PM
They deserve to lose this game... pathetic defense...pathetic baserunning... and pathetic vizcaino. (trade for a bullpen arm pronto!):angry:

I didn't even watch the last 1/2 inning. I knew that Vizciano was coming in and therefore the Sox were gonna lose. What does it take to pitch yourself off this team? Last year the Sox kept Mike Jackson around seemingly forever (not to mention using Koch as closer a little too long). Now this year, Viz. Enough of this BUM. Get rid of him!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

BigHurt9394
07-27-2005, 06:03 PM
:troll
"See you in the funny papers!"

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 06:04 PM
Irrational? Tell your story walking, pal.

Does somebody want to translate this for me? I have endured enough losses to understand what "tell your story walking" means.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:04 PM
What they need to do is go into Baltimore, a team on the ropes, and take 3 of 4. Start it off right by getting to their ace, Bedard. And start the usual suspects.

No more days off until the next true day off. Give Harris, Widger and Ozuna $50 each so they can explore downtown Baltimore and have enough money for lunch and a CD.

soltrain21
07-27-2005, 06:04 PM
Enjoy being banned.


Jeez people....everyone needs to settle down.

Region Sox
07-27-2005, 06:04 PM
Those Baseball Tonight Jackasses laugh and scoff win the Sox win and people like me get mad Sox get no love... well they just knew deep down this would happen. We get on national TV and blow one to the bottom feeders of baseball. I can't believe this is all going to happen again.

balke
07-27-2005, 06:05 PM
Trade everyone, this team sucks. We can't even take 2 of 3 from KC, ***, I'm jumping off a building. Curses, Curses, Curses. Make the move Kenny.


Jermaine is a breath of fresh air. Good thing there's a day off coming, time to regroup, come out and rattle some wins off consecutively. Jenks just got on my good list. I hope Frank comes back for the playoffs.

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 06:05 PM
Bye bye. :redneck

santo=dorf
07-27-2005, 06:05 PM
..
:DJ
"UT OH!"

:threadsucks

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 06:06 PM
Yep.

Now is the time for Ozzie to practice pushing the team in the right direction, and fast.

Of course, if we go .400 the rest of the season, I'll bet we still make the playoffs... so who cares, right?

Wrong. If we're down 1-3 in a playoff series, hopefully its not *then* that Ozzie begins learning how to get a team winning immediately and endlessly.

I say we ride 'em hard from April 1st right through September 30. 162 wins or bust! If we haven't won Game 7 of the World Series by August 1st then something is definitely wrong with this team!!!!

:roflmao:

Here, downstairs. Tell us all your troubles...

:therapy:

Region Sox
07-27-2005, 06:06 PM
Trade everyone, this team sucks. We can't even take 2 of 3 from KC, ***, I'm jumping off a building. Curses, Curses, Curses. Make the move Kenny.


Jermaine is a breath of fresh air. Good thing there's a day off coming, time to regroup, come out and rattle some wins off consecutively. Jenks just got on my good list. I hope Frank comes back for the playoffs.

I agree with Jenks, but Frank and his .200 are fine on the DL right now. The poor SOB can't even run so if he hits it and it doesn't go out of the park it is a problem.

anewman35
07-27-2005, 06:07 PM
I didn't even watch the last 1/2 inning. I knew that Vizciano was coming in and therefore the Sox were gonna lose. What does it take to pitch yourself off this team? Last year the Sox kept Mike Jackson around seemingly forever (not to mention using Koch as closer a little too long). Now this year, Viz. Enough of this BUM. Get rid of him!!!:angry: :angry: :angry:

Nobody is going to claim Vizciano is great, but his ERA was (at least before today) under 4. He's not near as bad as you seem to think. He's basically the last pitcher out of the pen, and I doubt many teams have pitchers much better in that spot.

MarySwiss
07-27-2005, 06:07 PM
Trade everyone, this team sucks. We can't even take 2 of 3 from KC, ***, I'm jumping off a building. Curses, Curses, Curses. Make the move Kenny.


Jermaine is a breath of fresh air. Good thing there's a day off coming, time to regroup, come out and rattle some wins off consecutively. Jenks just got on my good list. I hope Frank comes back for the playoffs.

THANK YOU!!!!! Perspective is a GOOD thing!

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:07 PM
Those Baseball Tonight Jackasses laugh and scoff win the Sox win and people like me get mad Sox get no love... well they just knew deep down this would happen. We get on national TV and blow one to the bottom feeders of baseball. I can't believe this is all going to happen again.

I have read some stupid ridiculous posts in my time, but this one is right at the top of the list...:rolleyes:

We should move this whole thread to the dark cloud one in WTS...

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:07 PM
I agree with Jenks, but Frank and his .200 are fine on the DL right now. The poor SOB can't even run so if he hits it and it doesn't go out of the park it is a problem.

Remeber when Cora sent him from second? I wonder how much that played into his "re-aggrevation"?

halfpricemonday
07-27-2005, 06:08 PM
I'm out of this thread, don't know why I posted in it in the first place...:rolleyes:

Great advice. Until I hear from MLB that this one loss disqualifies us from the 2005 postseason, I'm going to find something else to do during the off-day rather than relive this game over and over.

Maybe I'll take the rare opportunity to root for the Yanks. Worst case scenario today...an 11 game lead after 100 games.

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 06:09 PM
Remeber when Cora sent him from second? I wonder how much that played into his "re-aggrevation"?

Yes. It was obviously that lone play that led to his "re-aggrevation."

Sometimes, I don't mind losing because the post game threads are so damn funny.

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:10 PM
I agree with Jenks, but Frank and his .200 are fine on the DL right now. The poor SOB can't even run so if he hits it and it doesn't go out of the park it is a problem.

Yeah, **** Frank, you and your team leading OPS aren't good enough for Sox fans like region sox. You and your walks and your crappy .600+ slg% suck!

Did that really need to be in teal?

Jerko
07-27-2005, 06:10 PM
He got in the game because Guillen pulled Garland for no good reason and wasted Cotts for only one batter. We didn't have anybody left.

I missed the game myself, but I am growing tired of these "one and done" relief appearances. Cotts can get both lefties and righties out, don't waste him on one batter. Didn't the Giants do that the other night? Used 5 pitchers to get 6 outs? IIRC it didn't work out too well for them either.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:11 PM
Sometimes, I don't mind losing because the post game threads are so damn funny.
[/color][/color]

Just trying to think about something else besides this game. But when you know it all already, I guess it's amusing to you.

GoGoOzzie
07-27-2005, 06:11 PM
Remeber when Cora sent him from second? I wonder how much that played into his "re-aggrevation"?

Man..you are really searching for people to blame for everything, aren't you?


It was a bad loss. The fact of the matter is that all teams eventually have really crappy times-even with great teams against poor teams. Hopefully they will all regroup in the off day and comeback strong against the O's. Life goes on.

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:12 PM
I missed the game myself, but I am growing tired of these "one and done" relief appearances. Cotts can get both lefties and righties out, don't waste him on one batter. Didn't the Giants do that the other night? Used 5 pitchers to get 6 outs? IIRC it didn't work out too well for them either.

might have worked out if Politte had hit his spots, but he got one rising fastball (they don't really rise) down at the letters and the batter tomahawked it into the seats. **** happens...

Hendu
07-27-2005, 06:12 PM
We have to look on the bright side. Maybe we needed a couple games like this to remind our players that they're not a dominating team and they have to play good, solid fundamental baseball to win. We can't play like the Yankees or BoSox where we just coast through a game and win it 10-9.

It's especially embarrassing having these types of games against the Royals, but maybe that's what we need. No matter who our opponents are we can't just expect to win the game by showing up.

I'd rather see their ego taken down a couple notches now than in October.

infohawk
07-27-2005, 06:12 PM
He doesn't have to be on the scorecard, I wouldn't want to win like that anyway. We look to be in a real slump here. We've won one series, split one, and now lost two. Something needs to be kick started here. An oh yeah, nice job by Politte and Viscaino - NOT.

First of all, the Sox didn't lose to the Kansas City Royals today. They lost to Mike Sweeney.

We were bound to put a few bad games together eventually. Not that I like it, but it happens to every team. At least this team hasn't gone on any extended losing streaks.

A lot of things went wrong today. Gload made a big error, the usually reliable Cotts and Politte failed to come through. Everett got tossed out early. It was "pick your poison." Did the Sox lose because of errors by Gload or Iguchi, Cliff's inability to keep Sweeney in the yard or the loss of potential offensive production from Everett? Probably a little of everything.

I wouldn't blame Ozzie for pulling Garland. I would expect that Cotts and Politte would get the ball to Hermy without any problems. They have all season. I remember thinking that the game was over once we went to our end of game guys.

I am wondering if the bullpen if feeling a little taxed, partly because of covering for Hermy's back problems and more "limited" availability. Another poster indicated in another thread that Politte may be most effective when used more sparingly. A move for another bulllpen arm who can close games might be just what the doctor ordered.

I will say that the Sox have gone 8-6 since the All-Star Break. Not great, but certainly not awful. If your going to slump, that's the way to do it. They will get rolling once again.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:13 PM
Man..you are really searching for people to blame for everything, aren't you.

Yes... my witch hunt is in full force. I have 3 paragraphs on Doug Rader coming next.

shoota
07-27-2005, 06:14 PM
He's basically the last pitcher out of the pen, and I doubt many teams have pitchers much better in that spot.

That's a losing attitude. Only one team wins the World Series. Set the pace by improving our final bullpen option, not by keeping pace with teams that won't make the playoffs.

This is why the Wild Card sucks. Too many teams are in the playoff race because of the WC. Without the WC, Houston can give us Clemens and Ensberg.

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:14 PM
Just trying to think about something else besides this game. But when you know it all already, I guess it's amusing to you.

the loss isn't funny, but you've got people saying ESPN was right because the Sox booted a couple of balls, hung a couple of pitches and ended up losing a 13 inning affair.

Come on people... get a freaking clue...

downstairs
07-27-2005, 06:15 PM
I say we ride 'em hard from April 1st right through September 30. 162 wins or bust! If we haven't won Game 7 of the World Series by August 1st then something is definitely wrong with this team!!!!

:roflmao:

Here, downstairs. Tell us all your troubles...

:therapy:


You know some people actually watch these games to try to get some feeling for how we'll do in the playoffs (those that do not have ESP, like myself).

The other alternative is to just watch passively, knowing that we need to lose 11 and MIN needs to win 11 for anything to be of concern.

Maybe you believe that things that happen in the regular season don't give an indication of how good of a playoff team you are (note I did not say "affect the playoffs").

I watch a lot of baseball. There are a select few real races out there. Beyond that, I like to watch and learn a little about how teams may handle playoff situations/matchups/psycology.

I don't think there is anything irrational about that.

It just happens that I am commenting on something negative, right?

If we won, and Garland threw a 2-hit shutout, and I said "wow, we have the most solid playoff-ready pitching staff"... I assume you would still call me irrational?

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:15 PM
First of all, the Sox didn't lose to the Kansas City Royals today. They lost to Mike Sweeney.

We were bound to put a few bad games together eventually. Not that I like it, but it happens to every team. At least this team hasn't gone on any extended losing streaks.

A lot of things went wrong today. Gload made a big error, the usually reliable Cotts and Politte failed to come through. Everett got tossed out early. It was "pick your poison." Did the Sox lose because of errors by Gload or Iguchi, Cliff's inability to keep Sweeney in the yard or the loss of potential offensive production from Everett? Probably a little of everything.

I wouldn't blame Ozzie for pulling Garland. I would expect that Cotts and Politte would get the ball to Hermy without any problems. They have all season. I remember thinking that the game was over once we went to our end of game guys.

I am wondering if the bullpen if feeling a little taxed, partly because of covering for Hermy's back problems and more "limited" availability. Another poster indicated in another thread that Politte may be most effective when used more sparingly. A move for another bulllpen arm who can close games might be just what the doctor ordered.

It has all started with defense in the second half. The pitching has been good to good enough. The fileding has taken a big hit as Harold Reynolds told us all!

veeter
07-27-2005, 06:16 PM
Every time this team has us all upset, they've bounced back. Let's see how they respond in Baltimore then evaluate. I also agree with the deadline ending being a good thing. Marte knows he's on the block that has to effect him. August 1st, I believe will be a new beginning.

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 06:16 PM
the loss isn't funny, but you've got people saying ESPN was right because the Sox booted a couple of balls, hung a couple of pitches and ended up losing a 13 inning affair.

Come on people... get a freaking clue...

The loss isn't funny but, the post game thread can be. :redneck

Region Sox
07-27-2005, 06:17 PM
Yeah, **** Frank, you and your team leading OPS aren't good enough for Sox fans like region sox. You and your walks and your crappy .600+ slg% suck!

Did that really need to be in teal?

And what good can it do when he can hardly jog down to first after a base on balls? I love Frank Thomas but when he is not hitting a HR (THIS SEASON) he is creating a traffic jam on the bases. I would walk him too because he can't advance. If he can get healthy enough to run at a Konerko pace I am all for it. Or at least to use as a PH in the playoffs then if he does walk you can pinch run.

balke
07-27-2005, 06:18 PM
That's a losing attitude. Only one team wins the World Series. Set the pace by improving our final bullpen option, not by keeping pace with teams that won't make the playoffs.

This is why the Wild Card sucks. Too many teams are in the playoff race because of the WC. Without the WC, Houston can give us Clemens and Ensberg.


OR they can give the Yankees Berkman and Clemens, and the Red Sox Oswalt. The Wild Card is good for baseball. You wouldn't be complaining if we were in the Twins position.

Vernam
07-27-2005, 06:20 PM
In a hurry w/ no time to read the whole thread 'til late tonight, so I apologize if this duplicates any other posts. But I want to say:

1. Do not pitch to Sweeney. Ever. Treat him like Manny Ramirez with Willie Harris on-deck.

2. This loss could be the biggest blessing in disguise if it convinces KW to pull the trigger on a deal to bring us a World Series.

3. Anyone who thinks adding a starting pitcher is our biggest priority is quite mistaken, IMO.

4. Again IMO, priority is a stud reliever (I know, Wagner may not be available), which would solve the Vizcaino problem. Jenks could yet be the stud, but no way to know before the deadline whether his walks are a fatal flaw.

5. In light of the difficulty/unlikelihood of landing a stud reliever, I'd be thrilled if they got Aubrey Huff or another lefty hitter with some pop.

Latest deadline rumors posted 24 mins ago at CNN/SI: http://tinyurl.com/bkhg2. Note the attempt to downgrade McCarthy's trade value.

VC

JB98
07-27-2005, 06:20 PM
Could someone describe what happened on the Gload error? I know there was a runner on 1st...was it a potential double-play ball? Was it a tough play or did he totally boot it? Thanks.

It was an easy play. The ball was hit right to him. He was holding the runner on. All he had to do was catch the ball and step on first. Easy double play. The runner on first was hung out to dry. Instead, the ball hit his glove, deflected through his legs and into right field. All of a sudden, it was first and third for Sweeney, and the rest is history. The Gload error was the key play in the game. Ozzie should have left Cotts in to face Sweeney. Neal is murder on righties. He can get Sweeney out.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 06:20 PM
If we won, and Garland threw a 2-hit shutout, and I said "wow, we have the most solid playoff-ready pitching staff"... I assume you would still call me irrational?

No. I would call you irrational if Garland threw a 2-hit shutout today and you said "wow this makes even one iota difference in how the Sox will play next October."

Furthermore, I would be right to call you irrational. This isn't October. Quit behaving as though it were.

:cool:

downstairs
07-27-2005, 06:21 PM
OR they can give the Yankees Berkman and Clemens, and the Red Sox Oswalt. The Wild Card is good for baseball. You wouldn't be complaining if we were in the Twins position.

I can't speak for him, and I do essentially like the Wild Card. But the *big* drawback is that any .500 team- which really should just be done and over with- is a contender.

You have teams battling to stay slightly over .500 that also have World Series dreams.

balke
07-27-2005, 06:21 PM
And what good can it do when he can hardly jog down to first after a base on balls? I love Frank Thomas but when he is not hitting a HR (THIS SEASON) he is creating a traffic jam on the bases. I would walk him too because he can't advance. If he can get healthy enough to run at a Konerko pace I am all for it. Or at least to use as a PH in the playoffs then if he does walk you can pinch run.


Frank can outrun Paulie in a footrace. Frank hit 3-4 doubles in his short stint with the Sox. Frank doesn't have to run around the bases on a homerun. This is exactly the kind of game Frank wins for the Sox. If Frank is back to medium health, he'll help the Sox in the playoffs. What's he have like 25 RBI's in under 100 At-bats? More homeruns than half the team?

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:21 PM
the loss isn't funny, but you've got people saying ESPN was right because the Sox booted a couple of balls, hung a couple of pitches and ended up losing a 13 inning affair.

Come on people... get a freaking clue...

Sure that's amusing... but what's not is 21 of the last 22 innings against the worst team in baseball. There's some cause for concern here, since the Sox have been slump-free until this past week... everything seems to be magnified.

MarySwiss
07-27-2005, 06:22 PM
(Not sure if this post belongs here, but it's related and I didn't think it could sustain its own thread)

Much as the fact that this game sucked bigtime has deservedly gotten the majority of our attention, I can't believe that no one has as yet commented on the amazingly inept job the ESPN crew did...even for them. From the first inning on! Were those guys drunk? On acid? Or what? I mean, not bad enough to have to sit through the latter part of that game, but to have to do it while those clowns were giggling like 6th grade girls at a pajama party...cripes! I mean, who gives a rat's a** what color shirt one of them is wearing?

And of course, the fact that we lost made it suck even more.

MRKARNO
07-27-2005, 06:22 PM
You can complain about this pitcher or that pitcher all you want, but the fact is that the White Sox cannot play this kind of poor defense and win. Period. As the defense goes, this team goes. We are not the Boston Red Sox, who had something like 8 errors in their 4 game sweep of St. Louis. This team must play well defensively (and by well, I mean one of the best 3 in baseball) on a day to day basis. The margin of error is usually such that one or two extra baserunners has a decent chance of tipping the scales for the opponents. That's what happened today. A large portion of our losses lately can be chalked up to poor defense.

The bright side is that defense doesnt go on slumps like hitting does, but you cannot back down. The Sox have been doing just that lately and nearly everyone is complicit. All it takes is one misplay to change the course of a game in the type of baseball that we're playing.

Garland should have stayed out there. I know what Ozzie was getting at, but I think he needed to follow his own advice and show confidence in Garland. Pulling him because of a leadoff single after only 88 pitches was unfair. He may have been able to go the distance. We'll never know, but right now he's been our best pitcher and we need to get as many innings out of him as we can without putting his health at risk. This is the only thing I really fault Guillen for in this game, but it did end up being big (though how was he to know that the number one reliever was going to give it up like Politte did).

All in all, I hope the White Sox take this series loss to the Royals due to poor defense and the "Manny" game last week as a BIG wake up call that their defensive play has not matched up to what it was in the beginning of the season and that they will not win without excellent defense.

maurice
07-27-2005, 06:23 PM
Wow, lots of crazy posts in this thread. As mentioned:
- Frank Thomas is still very good; he's just injured.
- The bullpen situation is Ozzie's fault, not Vizcaino's.

Before Ozzie's boneheaded pitching moves forced him into the game, despite tossing 3 full innings in the past 2 days, Vizcaino had given up exactly 1 ER in his previous 14 appearances / 18.2 IP, lowering his previously inflated ERA to 3.86 (about the same as last season's 3.75 ERA). In fact, Vizcaino had pitched progressively better every month since sucking up the month of April:
May - 5.23 ERA
June - 2.25 ERA
July - 0.68 ERA
This, in a nutshell, is why Vizcaino remains on the team while Takatsu was DFAed in favor of Jenks.

I'd also like to add that the loss might have something to do with the fact that the defense sucked and the offense failed to score in any of the last 7 innings, despite facing 2 pitchers with an ERA > 7.

Dick Allen
07-27-2005, 06:23 PM
Does somebody want to translate this for me? I have endured enough losses to understand what "tell your story walking" means.:?:

SoxSpeed22
07-27-2005, 06:23 PM
Meanwhile at Bears camp...:rolleyes:

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:24 PM
(Not sure if this post belongs here, but it's related and I didn't think it could sustain its own thread)

Much as the fact that this game sucked bigtime has deservedly gotten the majority of our attention, I can't believe that no one has as yet commented on the amazingly inept job the ESPN crew did...even for them. From the first inning on! Were those guys drunk? On acid? Or what? I mean, not bad enough to have to sit through the latter part of that game, but to have to do it while those clowns were giggling like 6th grade girls at a pajama party...cripes! I mean, who gives a rat's a** what color shirt one of them is wearing?

And of course, the fact that we lost made it suck even more.

ESPN was blacked out locally... instead we had to hear DJ's worst call of the season. The gapper no one would get to, but amazingly Pods did. Was that a low point for him.

tsamdog
07-27-2005, 06:24 PM
Poor fielding...poor baserunning...poor situational hitting.........Hell, I watched this game under protest.

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 06:25 PM
Don't panic guys. We've seen this before. When the Sox lose 2, they come back to win at least 2, or 3. Even more. Maybe a couple trades by Kenny can do the trick. Just don't hang your heads guys. If you think about it. we almost have 70 wins. We can easily get 20 more, and that makes 90. We'll be in the playoffs with that. Anyways, if somehow we don't win the division, which is very, very, very unlikely. We always have the wildcard. Oakland wouldn't beat us out for that. It would be too late. We would already have like 85 wins, and that should secure a wildcard birth.

downstairs
07-27-2005, 06:25 PM
No. I would call you irrational if Garland threw a 2-hit shutout today and you said "wow this makes even one iota difference in how the Sox will play next October."

Furthermore, I would be right to call you irrational. This isn't October. Quit behaving as though it were.

:cool:

But that is what I said. I made a distinction between saying "makes one iota of difference (i.e. effects)" and "gives insight into how the team may play".

The latter is true, the former I never said.

So I think its fair to say even though it IS irrelevant if we do or don't win the next, say, 5 games... its a good time for Ozzie to kick everyone in the seat and say "start playing like a World Series team, or start playing in Charlotte."

Again. I am not saying that any of the next X number of games have any EFFECT over October games.

But that doesn't contradict ANALYZING games to see how good of a playoff team (manager included) the Sox may be.

CYGarland20
07-27-2005, 06:25 PM
Nobody is going to claim Vizciano is great, but his ERA was (at least before today) under 4. He's not near as bad as you seem to think. He's basically the last pitcher out of the pen, and I doubt many teams have pitchers much better in that spot.The thing that pisses me off about Viz, as well as other Sox fans, is that we acquired him for Carlos Lee(along w/ Pods of course) and he was suppose to be an intrical part of our BP. He has been somewhat of a bust so far. Yes his era is only around 4, but it's alot higher than that when he is used in close games. I don't mind keeping Viz for the backend of the Bp, but i don't want to see him pitching in crucial situations anymore, except for today where we had no choice, due to the fact our offense couldn't get any clutch hits. :(:

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:27 PM
Sure that's amusing... but what's not is 21 of the last 22 innings against the worst team in baseball. There's some cause for concern here, since the Sox have been slump-free until this past week... everything seems to be magnified.

yes and the key word in that sentence would be "seems" - meaning it isn't really magnified, it's just a couple of rough losses.

If this is the playoffs, no way is Gload starting.

If this is the playoffs, no way does viz come in but the unused starter does - Contreras right now.

If this is the playoffs, maybe the Sox don't bobble two easy plays (again, one of them is PK who probably makes that play or at least keeps it in front of him and gets the man at first).

If this is the playoffs, Carl probably doesn't get tossed in the first.

Finally, if this is the playoffs, hopefully Frank is back and that changes the offense dramatically...

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:28 PM
The thing that pisses me off about Viz, as well as other Sox fans, is that we acquired him for Carlos Lee, and he was suppose to be an intrical part of our BP. He has been somewhat of a bust so far. Yes his era is only around 4, but it's alot higher than that when he is used in close games. I don't mind keeping Viz for the backend of the Bp, but i don't want to see him pitching in crucial situations anymore, except for today where we had no choice, due to the fact our offense couldn't get any clutch hits. :(:

yeah, pods was just a throw in on that deal...:rolleyes:

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 06:28 PM
Nice HR Joe!!! I love Joe Crede!!!

:redneck

JB98
07-27-2005, 06:31 PM
Frank can outrun Paulie in a footrace. Frank hit 3-4 doubles in his short stint with the Sox. Frank doesn't have to run around the bases on a homerun. This is exactly the kind of game Frank wins for the Sox. If Frank is back to medium health, he'll help the Sox in the playoffs. What's he have like 25 RBI's in under 100 At-bats? More homeruns than half the team?

By no means am I defending Konerko's speed, but Frank cannot beat him in a footrace. Not anymore. If you've been out to the park this year on a day where Frank hit a double or had to run the bases, you would know this. It's painful to watch Frank run. Let's just hope he's well enough to be the DH in October.

CYGarland20
07-27-2005, 06:31 PM
yeah, pods was just a throw in on that deal...:rolleyes: you know what i mean. Right?

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 06:31 PM
It would still behoove Kenny to pick up another bullpen arm...doesn't have to be a 'closer' per se, just another reliable pitcher.Lip

maurice
07-27-2005, 06:31 PM
If this is the playoffs, Garland gets the CG victory.

And Thomas absolutely beats Konerko in a footrace.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:31 PM
yes and the key word in that sentence would be "seems" - meaning it isn't really magnified, it's just a couple of rough losses.

If this is the playoffs, no way is Gload starting.

If this is the playoffs, no way does viz come in but the unused starter does - Contreras right now.

If this is the playoffs, maybe the Sox don't bobble two easy plays (again, one of them is PK who probably makes that play or at least keeps it in front of him and gets the man at first).

If this is the playoffs, Carl probably doesn't get tossed in the first.

Finally, if this is the playoffs, hopefully Frank is back and that changes the offense dramatically...

You're right on all counts. I'm willing to chalk this up to "these stretches happen in a 162-game season." Still, it also serves as a reminder that we need another reliever and bat. How nice would Huff have been today?

MikeLove
07-27-2005, 06:32 PM
todays game was ugly. The only problem i have with ozzie is that he routinely uses marte and cotts just against lefties, when they are good against righties (or even better) too. How many of you honestly felt like we were going to lose when Ozzie pulled Garland? I sure wasnt so i see where he is coming from, he probably used a lot of pitchers cause he figured we would be able to score against whoever KC was going to use.

I did say "wow" outloud when they said Garland only threw 88 but, it seemed like he threw more so i was surprised. The errors killed us!

voodoochile
07-27-2005, 06:33 PM
You're right on all counts. I'm willing to chalk this up to "these stretches happen in a 162-game season." Still, it also serves as a reminder that we need another reliever and bat. How nice would Huff have been today?

Want to hear the evaluation of Frank's ankle first. I would prefer to have another arm to be safe if Frank is coming back...

SluggersAway
07-27-2005, 06:33 PM
If this is the playoffs...we aren't playing Kansas City...

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:34 PM
How many of you honestly felt like we were going to lose when Ozzie pulled Garland?

Not me... I lasted until Sweeney walked up to the plate with 2 on. I had that Manny feeling. Hell, we all did. Sometimes All-Stars play like All-Stars. He does every time against us.

MarySwiss
07-27-2005, 06:34 PM
ESPN was blacked out locally... instead we had to hear DJ's worst call of the season. The gapper no one would get to, but amazingly Pods did. Was that a low point for him.

You guys have NO IDEA how lucky you are that ESPN was blacked out locally! For some reason, they had three guys in the booth. One was that guy Gary something who used to do the Sox--for like a season or two--and always tells that stupid, boring story about how he first called the Cubs the "Cubbies" and soon found out that was a no-no. (Like Sox fans give a s** what people call the Cubs.) Another was some blond guy with a moustache named Steve something, and the third was Steve Stone, who I used to kind of respect. That's over.

They also had some other knucklehead who kept breaking in with inane sidebars. Ocassionally, they'd show the game. It took tremendous self-control on my part to keep from drinking the first beer until the 8th inning. (Remember, we're two hours behind you guys.)

I have had several beers since. I'm amazed I can see to type this!

balke
07-27-2005, 06:34 PM
By no means am I defending Konerko's speed, but Frank cannot beat him in a footrace. Not anymore. If you've been out to the park this year on a day where Frank hit a double or had to run the bases, you would know this. It's painful to watch Frank run. Let's just hope he's well enough to be the DH in October.


Yeah, I saw about 6 or 7 of Frank's games at the ballpark this year. He beats paulie and probably Pierzynski. He does have a limp though, which makes it that much sadder for Paulie.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:35 PM
Want to hear the evaluation of Frank's ankle first. I would prefer to have another arm to be safe if Frank is coming back...

Second opinions are rarely a good sign... and KW is up against a tight deadline.

DumpJerry
07-27-2005, 06:37 PM
Ok, let me pass out paper bags so everyone can stop hyperventilating.

Feel better?

Good.

All good teams have a dive at some point in the season. Ever since the Sox took off in April and we realized that this was becoming a special season, we knew there would be a rough patch were we would lose more games than we want to. Keep in mind some powerful facts:

1. We have never, ever lost more than three in a row this season. That pretty much sums it up.

2. All season the Sox have played to the level of the other team. Baltimore is still much better than the Royals. We will take it up a notch for them. Tomorrow's day off will help.

3. We will be in first place on August 1st no matter what happens between now and then. We will most likely be in 1st on August 15th.

Everyone smiling again?

Good.:D:

RallyBowl
07-27-2005, 06:37 PM
He doesn't have to be on the scorecard, I wouldn't want to win like that anyway. We look to be in a real slump here. We've won one series, split one, and now lost two. Something needs to be kick started here. An oh yeah, nice job by Politte and Viscaino - NOT.
Not to pick on you and only you, but this post sums up most of this thread, for me anyways. "...a real slump"? You have got to be f'n kidding me. we are 8 and 6 in this so called "slump" you seemed to have dreamt up. You were pretty mild mannered in your "dark cloud dismay", but the rest of you a- holes should get a life. Dark clouds make me sick. we are not going to play every game perfect, or the way you like your baseball played. No one in the history of the sport has. Get over it. We lost to the Royals. Big deal. It is one loss the last time I checked, not 21. So doesn't that still make us the best team in baseball? Yes, a few things could have been done differently. anyone can second guess, say what should have been done, and piss and moan/ predict the end after every loss. In fact, some make a pretty good living doing that everyday, writing for our local newspapers. maybe a new nickname for the dark clouds should be the Mariotti's. End rant.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:37 PM
Yeah, I saw about 6 or 7 of Frank's games at the ballpark this year. He beats paulie and probably Pierzynski. He does have a limp though, which makes it that much sadder for Paulie.

I dunno man... Frank doesn't look like he could outrun Jack McKeon right now.

tsamdog
07-27-2005, 06:37 PM
It would still behoove Kenny to pick up another bullpen arm...doesn't have to be a 'closer' per se, just another reliable pitcher.Lip

I agree Lip...I see Jenks, as of now, as no more than a one-inning pitcher.
that velocity drop in his second frame of relief was a bit of a concern. Viz was supposed to be our 'long' man.....It isn't there. If KW does bring in another starter (which I don't think that we need), Contreras is the likely candidate to head to the BP. I still think we need a big bat, in the case that Frank does not return.

That being said....it was an ugly JULY game to watch. Personally, I can't stand the mental errors we made today, but it's one game, in JULY.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 06:39 PM
But that is what I said. I made a distinction between saying "makes one iota of difference (i.e. effects)" and "gives insight into how the team may play".
....

Try and follow along with me.

Today is July 27. The Sox record is 65-35.

On October 3 the Sox record will be 0-0. This is not debatable. Stop trying to debate it.

Nothing-- N-O-T-H-I-N-G -- between now and October 3 has any bearing on how the Sox will play next October. Understand?

The sheer number of things that will change between July 27 and October 3 cannot even be quantified -- starting with the weather itself and the umpire chosen to call balls and strikes behind homeplate. All we know now is that the Sox need a better record than any team in the A.L. Central to punch their ticket.

Okay... now go find something else to fret about. You should have a nervous breakdown if you keep this up.

:therapy:

soxwon
07-27-2005, 06:44 PM
Houston we have a problem.

What is wrong with us?

balke
07-27-2005, 06:45 PM
I dunno man... Frank doesn't look like he could outrun Jack McKeon right now.


Definitely not right now. But when he came off the DL he could. Sox are going to need Frank in the Playoffs. They won without him, sure. His bat would make a big difference to this squad nonetheless.


Sox are still slightly above .500 in July. They are still about 11 games ahead of the division. They should be resting players like they have been for now. What would truly be decimating to this team would be Iguchi breaking a wrist, Pods pulling a hammy, or Paulie turning an ankle. 9 out of 11 ain't bad.

lostletters
07-27-2005, 06:46 PM
I don't think this has ANY bearing on the playoffs.

Lets face it. This team has not had a real day off since the all-star break.

Additionally, a slump was bound to happen sooner or later.

This is the point in getting so far ahead in the first half of the season, when there is a slump, it does not sting as bad on the standings, where it actually matters.

Also our slump is the team playing 12-11 in July. Not exactly what I call a sustained slump.

It DOES suck they lost today.

Also it was bound to happen that KC would win a couple of games in a row against the white sox.

Also note to Ozzy: ALWAYS WALK SWEENY with men on base or the game on the line.

SluggersAway
07-27-2005, 06:47 PM
Houston, we have no problem.

Go back to bed. Better yet, find the medicine cabinet.

Find some perspective people! The Sox are looking incredible. Enjoy the ride!

SOXfnNlansing
07-27-2005, 06:47 PM
They deserve to lose this game... pathetic defense...pathetic baserunning... and pathetic vizcaino. (trade for a bullpen arm pronto!):angry: All teams lick their chops when they see vizz the fizz jog in from the bullpen

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 06:49 PM
Sox are going to need Frank in the Playoffs. They won without him, sure. His bat would make a big difference to this squad nonetheless.

Absolutely, but we can't count on him coming back until we know more. Unfortunately KW doesn't have a lot of time to figure it all out.

mjmcend
07-27-2005, 06:50 PM
No more days off until the next true day off. Give Harris, Widger and Ozuna $50 each so they can explore downtown Baltimore and have enough money for lunch and a CD.\

I don't agree with that idea (except for Harris because Iguchi has stated he would like play more) but it sure is a funny way to put it.

SOXfnNlansing
07-27-2005, 06:50 PM
There's going to be some butt chewing. Everybody's head is messed up with all of the trade rumors...nobody knows who may stay or who may go...who's being "upgraded"....it's affecting the team's play.

I can't wait until August 1. I think you nailed it on the head

JB98
07-27-2005, 06:54 PM
Yeah, I saw about 6 or 7 of Frank's games at the ballpark this year. He beats paulie and probably Pierzynski. He does have a limp though, which makes it that much sadder for Paulie.

I just disagree with you. There's no way we can solve this argument because we'd need Frank, Paulie and AJ to line up for us, and that isn't going to happen.

Frank is still a dangerous hitter, but the truth of the matter is he's running with a noticeable limp, and he can't cut the bases the way a healthy runner can. I believe he's moving slower than both Paulie and AJ. Maybe Frank could win the race running in a straight line, but not on the basepaths.

I'm worried for Frank. He can't play 1B anymore, and apparently his ankle can't take the pounding of running around the bases. I'd hate to see his career end because of this, and I'd hate to see him not be able to be a part of this season due to injury. Hopefully, he'll be around for the stretch drive and the playoffs.

Mercy!
07-27-2005, 06:56 PM
"May I have your attention please. Todayís game is being played under protest by the Chicago White Sox."

LOL. Who can blame the KC fans (the few, the proud, still hanging around) for laughing and clapping at that announcement?

Anyway, I didnít watch much of yesterdayís game because of my maxim (no, not THAT one) that the game directly after a Sox win-by-blowout is often an excruciating loss. And the "B" lineup clinched my decision. Today, my TIVO recording went awry, so I caught only the last few innings in real time.

So I guess all I really need to know is:

Where do I sign up for the Bobby Jenks Fan Club? Itís time.

shoota
07-27-2005, 07:11 PM
:redneck

Okay, that was pretty funny, but please delete it because others who don't know you're joking might actually think I said such oral diarrhea.

And anytime you want to fix your signature to the exact quote I said would be fine with me.

balke
07-27-2005, 07:14 PM
And anytime you want to fix your signature to the exact quote I said would be fine with me.


I'm pretty sure he copy and pasted it from one of the threads. You actually did say that. Pretty dumb wasn't it?

ode to veeck
07-27-2005, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by shoota

And anytime you want to fix your signature to the exact quote I said would be fine with me.

Just as soon as you stop defending your absurd position(s) on Crede

shoota
07-27-2005, 07:21 PM
I'm pretty sure he copy and pasted it from one of the threads. You actually did say that. Pretty dumb wasn't it?

Speaking of dumb, your assumption is incorrect.

I said something very similar in a postgame thread, but you're wrong in assuming TaylorStSox copied and pasted. There are a couple grammatical issues that Taylor changed and refused to fix after I asked him to in a private message, and a couple days later publicly.

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 07:24 PM
Why is everyone panicking? There's no need for this. The Sox are up 11.5 games on the Twins. Maybe even 12 if they lose tonight. Do some of you really think were going to flop, and lose the division? I know crazier things have happened, but cmon be realistic. Some of you have to come back down to earth. Drink a couple of beers, and get wasted. Don't take it the wrong way. I'm just making a point.

~Malone

:gulp:

JB98
07-27-2005, 07:28 PM
Why is everyone panicking. There's no need for this. The Sox are up 11.5 games on the Twins. Maybe even 12 if they lose tonight. Do some of you really think were going to flop, and lose the division? I know crazier things have happened, but cmon be realistic. Some of you have to come back down to earth. Drink a couple of beers, and get wasted. Don't take it the wrong way. I'm just making a point.

~Malone

:gulp:

People hate losing. No, we don't think we are going to lose the division. We just hate seeing our Sox play bad baseball. That's all.

cburns
07-27-2005, 07:31 PM
We've just had some mental mistakes that are uncharacteristic of the team, along with way too many errors. The way our offense is now (especially with Frank gone), we can't be giving too many outs away. I'm getting a little concerned with Iguchi, his avg has been steadily decreasing as of late, and his play has looked sloppy in the field. Maybe he is getting burnt out a little bit and still getting used to all the traveling. Other than that, there is really nothing to be worried about. I'll take them playing like this right now rather than Sept. 20th.

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 07:34 PM
I hate it when the Sox lose too, but I don't go on the message boards, and start panicking about it. I don't make remarks that make it seem like I'm worried. I know we have to make some moves to improve the team, but that's what GM's are for, not us. We just sit around, relax, go have a couple cold brewsky's with our buddies and watch the Sox play good baseball, except for these past couple of weeks. Oh well, **** happen. Go get Baltimore. :gulp:

JB98
07-27-2005, 07:35 PM
We've just had some mental mistakes that are uncharacteristic of the team, along with way too many errors. The way our offense is now (especially with Frank gone), we can't be giving too many outs away. I'm getting a little concerned with Iguchi, his avg has been steadily decreasing as of late, and his play has looked sloppy in the field. Maybe he is getting burnt out a little bit and still getting used to all the traveling. Other than that, there is really nothing to be worried about. I'll take them playing like this right now rather than Sept. 20th.

Iguchi was a monster on Sunday. I thought he had broken out of his slump, and then what happens? Ozzie sits him for two days. That's no way to stay in a groove.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 07:38 PM
Iguchi was a monster on Sunday. I thought he had broken out of his slump, and then what happens? Ozzie sits him for two days. That's no way to stay in a groove.

I can only think KW gave Ozzie orders to showcase Wee-Willie for another team's GM considering a trade with the Sox. The only question is who would be stupid enough to trade major league talent for Willie Harris?
:o:

Maybe it was a minor league deal. That would make sense.
:cool:

Or maybe it was a bag of balls and broken fungo bat deal. That makes the most sense of all.
:wink:

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 07:42 PM
Iguchi was a monster on Sunday. I thought he had broken out of his slump, and then what happens? Ozzie sits him for two days. That's no way to stay in a groove.

I disagree, we need Iguchi to stay fresh for the stretch run and for the playoffs. Sorry he's a critical part of this team.

Vernam
07-27-2005, 07:45 PM
Oh well, **** happen. Go get Baltimore. :gulp:Omigod, we have to play Baltimore next?! Now I really am worried.

VC

downstairs
07-27-2005, 07:47 PM
Try and follow along with me.

Today is July 27. The Sox record is 65-35.

On October 3 the Sox record will be 0-0. This is not debatable. Stop trying to debate it.

Nothing-- N-O-T-H-I-N-G -- between now and October 3 has any bearing on how the Sox will play next October. Understand?

The sheer number of things that will change between July 27 and October 3 cannot even be quantified -- starting with the weather itself and the umpire chosen to call balls and strikes behind homeplate. All we know now is that the Sox need a better record than any team in the A.L. Central to punch their ticket.

Okay... now go find something else to fret about. You should have a nervous breakdown if you keep this up.



You're not getting my point.

I am not saying games today have a BEARING.

I am saying its fair to ANALYZE a team relative to the playoffs.

Heck, its fair to analyze any team relative to the 2006, 2007, 2008 playoffs to a minor extent. In July 2005 its COMPLETELY fair to ANALYZE a team in terms of how they'll play in the playoffs.

Unless you assume that every single game is a new game, and nothing that came before it is fair to analyze relative to that new game?

I am not fretting or freaking out on a single game.

I do look at things like reliance on home-run-ball vs. smartball. Ability to play under pressure (13th inning, bases loaded). Etc, etc.

I don't understand why you find that so crazy?

I have no problem with you having a problem with someone who says "we lost to KC, now the Twins will take us over and its no playoffs for us!". Or even, "now that we lost a series to KC, we cannot possibly beat the Yanks in a series, can we?"

There is a difference between forward thinking analysis and thinking that events today have an effect on events down the line.

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 07:48 PM
Omigod, we have to play Baltimore next?! Now I really am worried.

VC

Oh my God!!! Baltimore. I'm scared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so freaked out. Jk. Baltimore is on the ropes. We'll be ok. :gulp:

South Side
07-27-2005, 07:52 PM
Those Baseball Tonight Jackasses laugh and scoff win the Sox win and people like me get mad Sox get no love... well they just knew deep down this would happen. We get on national TV and blow one to the bottom feeders of baseball. I can't believe this is all going to happen again.

Wow... just wow. Maybe you need to take a week away from the Sox, yes?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 07:52 PM
You're not getting my point.

I am not saying games today have a BEARING.

I am saying its fair to ANALYZE a team relative to the playoffs.....

This is getting silly.

Let me ask you a question. For the purpose of illustration, assume this is 2000. Using your "analysis" theory of how the '00 Sox looked in July, August, and September, tell us -- go ahead, TELL US -- how you "analyzed" the '00 Sox would play in October.

Go ahead, downstairs. Make an ass of yourself.
:o:

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 07:55 PM
This board needs to chill out. There's better things in life to worry about.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 07:55 PM
Regarding Iguchi it seems to me he was saying in the newspapers today he wanted to play more not less.

Lip

whitesoxfan
07-27-2005, 07:56 PM
boy when i left this thread, it was actually alright. I come back, there's 6 pages left of people, pretty much to sum it up, saying our team has problems.

So what? we lost 2 of 3 to KC. We also lost 2 of 3 to Tampa earlier this year. What did we do right after that series? Started winning games again. Whenever we lose 2 or 3 in a row, there's idiots complaining how the team needs to be adjusted blah blah blah but they keep proving to everyone that they are the best team in baseball.

like someone on one of the threads said, if one loss pisses you off, why the hell are you a baseball fan? Go be a fan of USC Football, UNC Basketball or a Patriot fan if losing pisses you off so much.

were still the best damn team in baseball and just because we've lost 2 in a row to the Royals doesn't mean we still can't be the best team in baseball for the rest of the year.

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 07:56 PM
Regarding Iguchi it seems to me he was saying in the newspapers today he wanted to play more not less.

Lip

Source?

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 08:01 PM
boy when i left this thread, it was actually alright. I come back, there's 6 pages left of people, pretty much to sum it up, saying our team has problems.

So what? we lost 2 of 3 to KC. We also lost 2 of 3 to Tampa earlier this year. What did we do right after that series? Started winning games again. Whenever we lose 2 or 3 in a row, there's idiots complaining how the team needs to be adjusted blah blah blah but they keep proving to everyone that they are the best team in baseball.

like someone on one of the threads said, if one loss pisses you off, why the hell are you a baseball fan? Go be a fan of USC Football, UNC Basketball or a Patriot fan if losing pisses you off so much.

were still the best damn team in baseball and just because we've lost 2 in a row to the Royals doesn't mean we still can't be the best team in baseball for the rest of the year.

I agree, we still have the best record in baseball. We'll have to beat the Royals in our own place next time. That's all. :gulp:

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 08:08 PM
Read any of today's newspapers regarding Ozzie resting Iguchi.

WhiteSoxFan, I can speak for anybody else but what bothers me is the WAY they lost the past 24 hours not the fact that they did lose.

Three times since last Thursday they have performed like they couldn't care less or already have the division locked up, that's unacceptable. I'm referring to the Thursday Boston game and the two losses to the barnacles of the American League.

Lip

zach23
07-27-2005, 08:10 PM
Source?

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/271sd5.htm

JB98
07-27-2005, 08:16 PM
Regarding Iguchi it seems to me he was saying in the newspapers today he wanted to play more not less.

Lip

With tomorrow's day off, Iguchi will have had three out of four days off. That's a little excessive, don't you think? I understand resting him one game in Kansas City, but not two. He's too good of a player to be sitting on the bench.

The point PHG brought up must be correct: They wanted to showcase Harris. The only other explanation is complete stupidity by Ozzie. And if it was an attempt to showcase Harris, it backfired miserably.

Chips
07-27-2005, 08:20 PM
boy when i left this thread, it was actually alright. I come back, there's 6 pages left of people, pretty much to sum it up, saying our team has problems.

So what? we lost 2 of 3 to KC. We also lost 2 of 3 to Tampa earlier this year. What did we do right after that series? Started winning games again. Whenever we lose 2 or 3 in a row, there's idiots complaining how the team needs to be adjusted blah blah blah but they keep proving to everyone that they are the best team in baseball.

like someone on one of the threads said, if one loss pisses you off, why the hell are you a baseball fan? Go be a fan of USC Football, UNC Basketball or a Patriot fan if losing pisses you off so much.

were still the best damn team in baseball and just because we've lost 2 in a row to the Royals doesn't mean we still can't be the best team in baseball for the rest of the year.

Very true, and after we got swept by the A's at the break, we came back and won five straight. We'll do just fine. Couple of bad games.

Madvora
07-27-2005, 08:21 PM
With tomorrow's day off, Iguchi will have had three out of four days off. That's a little excessive, don't you think? I understand resting him one game in Kansas City, but not two. He's too good of a player to be sitting on the bench.

The point PHG brought up must be correct: They wanted to showcase Harris. The only other explanation is complete stupidity by Ozzie. And if it was an attempt to showcase Harris, it backfired miserably.
You're right. With two starts in a row, they were definitely tryng to showcase Harris. That has to be the reason for these really bad lineups this week. They're probably showcasing everybody. Might as well, I guess. The division lead is safe and the deadline is Sunday. Try what you can to get rid of your trash, make improvements and then get back on track and start playing real ball again.

JB98
07-27-2005, 08:25 PM
Read any of today's newspapers regarding Ozzie resting Iguchi.

WhiteSoxFan, I can speak for anybody else but what bothers me is the WAY they lost the past 24 hours not the fact that they did lose.

Three times since last Thursday they have performed like they couldn't care less or already have the division locked up, that's unacceptable. I'm referring to the Thursday Boston game and the two losses to the barnacles of the American League.

Lip

The lack of focus is the concern at this stage. The biggest challenge for the Sox the rest of the season is to keep the edge mentally, and they certainly haven't had it the last two days. I think it's just a passing phase, perhaps caused by the trade deadline and all the rumors swirling around the team. Or perhaps we're just in a slump. If this is still going on a month from now, I'll be pissed. Even though we have a big lead, you don't want to take your foot off the gas.

I don't necessarily expect us to play .650 ball the rest of the year. When the other team beats us, so be it. I just get perturbed after games like today and that first loss against Boston where we beat ourselves.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 08:28 PM
This board needs to chill out. There's better things in life to worry about.

Not on this message board there's not. And Johan Santana is shutting out the Yanks... he's baaaaack.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 08:29 PM
You're right. With two starts in a row, they were definitely tryng to showcase Harris. That has to be the reason for these really bad lineups this week. They're probably showcasing everybody. Might as well, I guess. The division lead is safe and the deadline is Sunday. Try what you can to get rid of your trash, make improvements and then get back on track and start playing real ball again.

I will gladly trade two losses to lose Harris. Biggest steal this side of Rudy Law.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2005, 08:35 PM
I will glady trade two losses to lose Harris. Biggest steal this side of Rudy Law.

It would truly be regrettable that KW would allow this Sox team to lose two games just to maximize his chances of getting anything more than a bag of balls in trade for Willie Harris.
:?:

Harris is on borrowed time and he knows it. Let's not forget he packed his spikes up in a box before the all-star break. Only Joe Crede's sore back saved his ass from a demotion when Gload came off the DL. Now with Frank on the DL he is getting yet another reprieve? And we're losing games while showcasing him, too?
:o:

Give me a break... this guy shouldn't have even made the team leaving Tucson.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 08:41 PM
Agreed

Lip

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 08:46 PM
Not on this message board there's not. And Johan Santana is shutting out the Yanks... he's baaaaack.

Ok dude. I hope that was a joke because there are better things in life to worry about than wasting your time on a message board to post remarks about why your panicking over a 2 game losing streak when we have the best record in baseball, and we are on the verge of getting into the playoffs which hardly ever happens.

PaulDrake
07-27-2005, 08:54 PM
I've been waiting for the Sox to make it to a World Series a helluva lot longer than you, so ditch your pills. You're a lot nicer than I would have been. I'd have suggested that they be placed elsewhere and not just ditched.

soxjim
07-27-2005, 09:01 PM
The SOX lost this one because they went to sleep after the 6th inning. I thought last night was a lack luster effort. At least Jenks did well with the game on the line. Lets move on to Baltimore. Lets also stick to a regular line up.

sox1malone84
07-27-2005, 09:04 PM
The SOX lost this one because they went to sleep after the 6th inning. I thought last night was a lack luster effort. At least Jenks did well with the game on the line. Lets move on to Baltimore. Lets also stick to a regular line up.

I agree. Let's forget about this series and move on to Baltimore. :gulp:

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 09:10 PM
Okay, that was pretty funny, but please delete it because others who don't know you're joking might actually think I said such oral diarrhea.

And anytime you want to fix your signature to the exact quote I said would be fine with me.

I'm just waiting for the next stupid thing you say to change my sig. Don't worry. This one shouldn't last more than a few more days. Isn't it scary to think that the 8th and 9th hitters that you loathe so much are among the top 5 most productive hitters in our order?

balke
07-27-2005, 09:16 PM
If it makes anyone feel better, The Angels are 12-11 in July, same as the White Sox. They've just lost 2 in a row to the Blue Jays.

Mercy!
07-27-2005, 09:17 PM
One thing Iím beginning to enjoy is the intensity with which many of the other teams are battling the Sox now. Those who play with pride get up for games with the first place White Sox.

And more power to the AL doormats for taking two of three from the Sox. Although Iím sure we all know that, in truth, those wins were gift wrapped and handed to them. Still, this sure was a different KC team under their new manager. What a difference a couple of months can make.

starboy0
07-27-2005, 09:28 PM
We're not manufacturing nearly as many runs as we used to. Part of that is because of Guillen's weird lineups in the second half. He needs to go back to playing his "A" lineup most of the time. The important part of that is Podsednik and Iguchi need to be our 1-2 punch daily. Our success starts there. As of now, the team is playing like Guillen has been managing - like these games don't mean much because we have a big cushion. I think the results speak for themselves. We need to start playing hungry again, and it starts with the manager. Lately, Guillen is managing far too much like Manuel.

I agree 100% with this. They simply looked complacent in KC. This thing is FAR from over. Up 5-0 with Garland - this should be a win. Way too many errors this series.

pczarapa
07-27-2005, 09:35 PM
WHY THE F IS VISCAINO ON OUR F'N TEAM? HE SUCKED AGAINST BOSTON, AND HE SUCKED TODAY!!!!

4 f'n singles, one pathetic strike out. You get paid to get people out, not walk people and let up 4 singles to the worst team in the AL.

Lets trade him for a bag of balls, HE F'N SUCKS!!!!

The only thing I protest is that he got in the god damn game.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:


I wholeheartedly agree, I sweat when he comes in like I did last year when Cotts did

pczarapa
07-27-2005, 09:36 PM
Agreed. Jenks looked outstanding pitching out of the bases-loaded jam. Dye hit a big homer and Garland was killer. The Sox seem to be making LOTS of mental mistakes. Pick-offs, caught-stealing, errors galour... Something's gotta give...

The kid's damn good and he will throw that slider at any pitch count. If he can throw strikes he's going to be devastating to the opposition. Unfortunately for us, Viscaino is devastating to the Sox.

balke
07-27-2005, 09:37 PM
The only thing I don't like to see, that I saw tonight is when Pablo or Timo or Willie take big hacks when trailing late in the game. I think everyone else pretty much as good judgement, but today Pablo got into a pitch and tried to put the Sox ahead with 1 out. He would've been much more useful on the basepaths.

I think we didn't manufacture well because Pods got picked off that one at-bat, and really wasn't on at all otherwise. Dye tried moving a run over late, unsuccessfully. The execution just wasn't there, but for the most part they tried scoring as best they could.

pczarapa
07-27-2005, 09:37 PM
I'd like to hear some more about how Ross Gload should start more games.

Yeah, didn't look very crisp in the field for sure.

shoota
07-27-2005, 09:48 PM
I'm just waiting for the next stupid thing you say to change my sig. Don't worry. This one shouldn't last more than a few more days. Isn't it scary to think that the 8th and 9th hitters that you loathe so much are among the top 5 most productive hitters in our order?

You again misinterpret, or in this case, blatantly create opinions I've never said. I do not loathe both the 8th and 9th hitters on this team. I only loathe one.

balke
07-27-2005, 09:50 PM
Ross should start more games. Get rid of the jitters, get in a groove. Give Konerko a break, add a lefty bat to the lineup, and hopefully add better defense. He was better than Paulie at the corner last season (limited action).

TaylorStSox
07-27-2005, 09:56 PM
You again misinterpret, or in this case, blatantly create opinions I've never said. I do not loathe both the 8th and 9th hitters on this team. I only loathe one.


I could have sworn you hated Uribe too. Why hate one and not the other? They're pretty much the same player. They're both free swingers with decent power that are gold glove calibre IF'ers.

JB98
07-27-2005, 10:06 PM
Ross should start more games. Get rid of the jitters, get in a groove. Give Konerko a break, add a lefty bat to the lineup, and hopefully add better defense. He was better than Paulie at the corner last season (limited action).

Defensively, Ross is better, despite the ridiculous gaffe today. I think you'll see him at 1B once a week, maybe twice. Konerko will get some time at DH with Frank being out.

ktsmith
07-27-2005, 10:06 PM
So far, since the all-star break we've made the move of shipping away Shingo.
Sure his numbers weren't great, but what psychological effect has it had on the team? Iguchi doesn't seem to be the same player eitcher. So I did a little research and here's what I found.

Since the all star break:

With Shingo; Record: 4-0
Without Shingo; Record: 4-6

With Shingo; Errors by Iguchi: 5 errors, 90 games into the season
Without Shingo; Errors by Iguchi: 3 errors in 10 games

Surprisingly, however, the bullpen's ERA has been 2.64. The Bullpen has been used an average of 3 innings per game in the last nine games. They haven't really been picking up the starters though, so they don't get the bad mark on their ERA stats. It does look like the starters are not playing as well as they were.

JB98
07-27-2005, 10:08 PM
So far, since the all-star break we've made the move of shipping away Shingo.
Sure his numbers weren't great, but what psychological effect has it had on the team? Iguchi doesn't seem to be the same player eitcher. So I did a little research and here's what I found.

Since the all star break:

With Shingo; Record: 4-0
Without Shingo; Record: 4-6

With Shingo; Errors by Iguchi: 5 errors, 90 games into the season
Without Shingo; Errors by Iguchi: 3 errors in 10 games

Surprisingly, however, the bullpen's ERA has been 2.64. The Bullpen has been used an average of 3 innings per game in the last nine games. They haven't really been picking up the starters though, so they don't get the bad mark on their ERA stats. It does look like the starters are not playing as well as they were.

Buerhle and Garcia are not throwing the ball as well as they did in June. Contreras has actually been better as of late, and Garland has continued to pitch extremely well. It's a mixed bag for the starters.

BeviBall!
07-27-2005, 10:13 PM
Ok dude. I hope that was a joke because there are better things in life to worry about than wasting your time on a message board to post remarks about why your panicking over a 2 game losing streak when we have the best record in baseball, and we are on the verge of getting into the playoffs which hardly ever happens.

Uh, yeah it was meant as a joke, Dr. Phil. Good catching on.

shoota
07-27-2005, 10:14 PM
I could have sworn you hated Uribe too. Why hate one and not the other? They're pretty much the same player. They're both free swingers with decent power that are gold glove calibre IF'ers.

No, I don't hate Uribe. Uribe is the better defensive player. Offensively, while their numbers are similar, last year Uribe has shown that he can carry this team with his bat. Crede never has.

Uribe's just a better all-around baseball player. He can run, Crede can't. I hate Crede's mental approach to the game. I also don't like his attitude; Crede has refused to go play winterball at the request of Sox management once, maybe twice.

Here's a difference in their play in important games: Uribe fakes out Derrek Lee and prevents a Cub run from scoring; Crede doesn't look a Minnesota Twins baserunner back to second on a simple grounder to third, allowing him to advance to third in the biggest game of the year in September 2003.

If there's one guy who earns his keep as a defensive wizard, it's Juan Uribe. This team cannot afford to have two poor hitting defensive specialists. Crede's the inferior, so He Gawn.

Mercy!
07-27-2005, 10:21 PM
I'd like to hear some more about how Ross Gload should start more games.Yeah, didn't look very crisp in the field for sure.

Mercy! To the bof of yus.

Ross Gload had 231 total chances at first base in 2004 with zero errors. Let him have a chance to get re-acclimated to the big league team.

We're fortunate to have him back - both his bat and his glove.

CHISOXFAN13
07-27-2005, 10:23 PM
Cut Ross some slack. It's hard to stay real sharp when you hardly get a chance to play. Ross is an excellent defensive first baseman. So he made a bad error.

Iguchi made an error last night. Uribe made a couple last night. Even top defensive players make some errors.

If that's the argument, then I guess it's not fair to blast Perez or Harris anymore.

*****

Lip Man 1
07-27-2005, 10:27 PM
Interesting quote:

"The right side of the card is a courtesy. Apparently, they don't know the rules. The protest is a non-issue for me."-- Buddy Bell to the AP.

Lip

JB98
07-27-2005, 10:33 PM
Interesting quote:

"The right side of the card is a courtesy. Apparently, they don't know the rules. The protest is a non-issue for me."-- Buddy Bell to the AP.

Lip

I've got Doug Padilla's story in front of me right now. Guillen isn't going through with the protest process. He realized after the game that he was wrong.

Mercy!
07-27-2005, 11:01 PM
Interesting quote:

"The right side of the card is a courtesy. Apparently, they don't know the rules. The protest is a non-issue for me."-- Buddy Bell to the AP.

Lip
Go ahead, Buddy, rub Ozzie's nose in it. On the other hand, maybe he's just calling a spade a spade. Anyway, for me, the money quote in that article is:

"This is the best club in baseball and we beat (Mark) Buehrle and Garland back-to-back," Royals manager Buddy Bell said. "It doesn't really get any better than that."

JB98
07-27-2005, 11:05 PM
Go ahead, Buddy, rub Ozzie's nose in it. On the other hand, maybe he's just calling a spade a spade. Anyway, for me, the money quote in that article is:

"This is the best club in baseball and we beat (Mark) Buehrle and Garland back-to-back," Royals manager Buddy Bell said. "It doesn't really get any better than that."

Did Jon get the loss today? Am I missing something here?

Mercy!
07-27-2005, 11:08 PM
Did Jon get the loss today? Am I missing something here?
:ozzie
"Apparently, they don't know the rules."

samram
07-27-2005, 11:09 PM
No, I don't hate Uribe. Uribe is the better defensive player. Offensively, while their numbers are similar, last year Uribe has shown that he can carry this team with his bat. Crede never has.

Uribe's just a better all-around baseball player. He can run, Crede can't. I hate Crede's mental approach to the game. I also don't like his attitude; Crede has refused to go play winterball at the request of Sox management once, maybe twice.

Here's a difference in their play in important games: Uribe fakes out Derrek Lee and prevents a Cub run from scoring; Crede doesn't look a Minnesota Twins baserunner back to second on a simple grounder to third, allowing him to advance to third in the biggest game of the year in September 2003.

If there's one guy who earns his keep as a defensive wizard, it's Juan Uribe. This team cannot afford to have two poor hitting defensive specialists. Crede's the inferior, so He Gawn.

You know what, I can't help but respect your attempts to rationalize your hatred for Crede through irrelevant anecdotal evidence that bears little resemblance to reality.

slavko
07-27-2005, 11:29 PM
Yesterday the second baseman did a meltdown and the first baseman waved at a groundball and we lost a game. Today the first baseman and the second baseman each kicked groundballs and we lost a game. Except we're talking about 4 different players.

Viva Medias B's
07-27-2005, 11:36 PM
While I am comfortable with an 11-game lead, these two losses in a row really bother me because they were each inexcusable. It's one thing to get beat, but losing ballgames due to unforced errors really irks me. If they continue to play this way, Ozzie should read them the riot act.

Gigantor
07-27-2005, 11:54 PM
You hate to see losses like the last two games including this afternoons contest. Bad hitting, blown baserunners, blown leads, blown pitching,errors and bad defense. We had so many chances to score on so many occasions, only to blow those chances with pop ups and weakly hit fly balls or grounders. Uribe looks like an idiot half the time he is up to bat. Burhele and Garcia get smacked around back to back against the Royals. Wow. We are in the beginning of a slump here, as we have reverted back to the 2004-2005 White Sox. Guys, not to predict any dark clouds, but Minnesota won today and can still climb back in this race if we keep playing like this.

MIgrenade
07-28-2005, 12:08 AM
We are in the beginning of a slump here, as we have reverted back to the 2004-2005 White Sox. Guys, not to predict any dark clouds, but Minnesota won today and can still climb back in this race if we keep playing like this.

Ugh...first, this is the slump. It has gone on for about a month in which the Sox are like one game over. In that time the Sox have gained like 3 games. Yes, the Twins could climb back into it, but they have shown that they can't keep anything together. Look at their second baseman. I will not consider this until they are within 5 games.

I have looked up none of these stats but I can't be far off.

MIgrenade
07-28-2005, 12:14 AM
"This is the best club in baseball and we beat (Mark) Buehrle and Garland back-to-back," Royals manager Buddy Bell said. "It doesn't really get any better than that."

Yes it does, try being in first place by 11 games rather than being the worst team in baseball.

mbwhitesox
07-28-2005, 12:24 AM
"This is the best club in baseball and we beat (Mark) Buehrle and Garland back-to-back," Royals manager Buddy Bell said. "It doesn't really get any better than that."

Just goes to show how painfully low the expectations are in KC right now. :rolleyes:

Congrats Buddy, you barely took a 3 game series from a team that committed 4 errors in two losses and now are a meager 27.5 games out of the division lead. Break out the champaign.

mjmcend
07-28-2005, 01:16 AM
"This is the best club in baseball and we beat (Mark) Buehrle and Garland back-to-back," Royals manager Buddy Bell said. "It doesn't really get any better than that."


Well other than having an 11 game lead in the division, and being the best team in baseball of course. But that's a close second. Jerks.

kcpowercat
07-28-2005, 01:38 AM
:troll
I am so banned, I don't even know it yet.

P.S., moron, your team still ****ing sucks.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-28-2005, 01:43 AM
:troll
I am so banned, I don't even know it yet.

That was incredibly fast. Mr Hawk...if you please?

:hawk
"HE GONE"

doublem23
07-28-2005, 01:51 AM
Yawn... Did anyone really think the Sox would win at a .700 clip the entire season? That we would somehow escape a stretch like this, where runs are hard to score, but pretty damn easy to give up? Bla, if you can't handle the daily highs and lows and just roll with the punches, maybe you should reconsider your interest in baseball, because even the very best teams in the league are going to look like **** at least 50-60 times a year.

Hopefully KW can make a move, add another plus arm in the 'pen, maybe get some guys to really add some depth to the bench and the guys will just pull themselves from this lull. Up 11 games with only a few days left in July is an enviable position to be in, people.

ClaudelSleptHere
07-28-2005, 01:51 AM
While I am comfortable with an 11-game lead, these two losses in a row really bother me because they were each inexcusable. It's one thing to get beat, but losing ballgames due to unforced errors really irks me. If they continue to play this way, Ozzie should read them the riot act.


Does losing games due to 'forced' errors irk you also?

Viva Medias B's
07-28-2005, 06:50 AM
Does losing games due to 'forced' errors irk you also?

Forced errors? Is there really such a thing?

DaveIsHere
07-28-2005, 07:51 AM
Kind of annoyed during the updates on the Snore this morning, as Fred would always say "White Sox lead DOWN to 11 games after loss to KC"


***?? We have been hovering between 11-13 game lead for a while, I guess anything to knock the Sox

Deuce
07-28-2005, 08:07 AM
The pitching has been good to good enough.

The pitching is what has kept us in these games. The pitching is superb. "Good" and "good enough" is simply an understatement.

BeviBall!
07-28-2005, 08:21 AM
The pitching is what has kept us in these games. The pitching is superb. "Good" and "good enough" is simply an understatement.

Not since Cleveland it hasn't.

itsnotrequired
07-28-2005, 08:53 AM
Kind of annoyed during the updates on the Snore this morning, as Fred would always say "White Sox lead DOWN to 11 games after loss to KC"


***?? We have been hovering between 11-13 game lead for a while, I guess anything to knock the Sox

What a dumb thing for Fred to say. The Sox had an 11 game lead back on July 7th. So the Sox go 8-9 in the three weeks since then and have lost zero ground to the Twins. Sounds to me like the Twins are the ones dropping the ball here.

I guess anything less than a 15 game lead is viewed as a failure.

BeviBall!
07-28-2005, 09:04 AM
Well, it did go from 12 to 11, so technically our lead went down. Why split hairs here?

Medford Bobby
07-28-2005, 09:10 AM
:(: Seems like they are playing with that World Series trophy stuck up their rear ends.......................:o:

Dan H
07-28-2005, 09:23 AM
Yawn... Did anyone really think the Sox would win at a .700 clip the entire season? That we would somehow escape a stretch like this, where runs are hard to score, but pretty damn easy to give up? Bla, if you can't handle the daily highs and lows and just roll with the punches, maybe you should reconsider your interest in baseball, because even the very best teams in the league are going to look like **** at least 50-60 times a year.

Hopefully KW can make a move, add another plus arm in the 'pen, maybe get some guys to really add some depth to the bench and the guys will just pull themselves from this lull. Up 11 games with only a few days left in July is an enviable position to be in, people.

Yes, people thought that the Sox would play at a .700 clip all season, and, of course, that is unrealistic. The slump has finally come and even the Royals can take a series every once in a while.

I don't like losing, but the slump isn't the problem. It is how the team will react to it. Panic and the lead will shrink. Realize there are low points in season and you'll clinch even sooner.

infohawk
07-28-2005, 09:46 AM
Ugh...first, this is the slump. It has gone on for about a month in which the Sox are like one game over. In that time the Sox have gained like 3 games. Yes, the Twins could climb back into it, but they have shown that they can't keep anything together. Look at their second baseman. I will not consider this until they are within 5 games.

I have looked up none of these stats but I can't be far off.

The Twins are having real problems scoring runs. Sure, they will score plenty of runs every now and then, like last night, but they have a very weak-hitting line-up. Last night they had their reigning Cy Young pitcher going up against a guy who was almost put on waivers by the Marlins. Leiter pitched o.k., but had thrown over 100 pitches after 5 innings. The Twins were able to victimize the Yankees middle relief corps.

Barring one or two really significant impact moves, the Twins aren't going to all of a sudden start tearing it up offensively. The personnel aren't there. They used to be about pitching, defense and timely hitting. This season they have only had the pitching going for them. I'd be surprised if they win the wild card.

infohawk
07-28-2005, 09:49 AM
Forced errors? Is there really such a thing?

Forced and unforced errors are tennis terms.

spiffie
07-28-2005, 09:57 AM
All right, I'm taking a deep breath now and trying to keep things in perspective:

- The fact that we've only won 1 out of our last 5 series is nothing to worry about.

- We are still the best team in baseball.

- We will make the playoffs unless our entire team dies in a plane crash or MIN suddenly gets to bump payroll by $100 million for the stretch run.

- We have the best 3 man rotation in baseball for the playoffs.

- All these losses recently don't matter because they're not against division opponents. And those that are against division opponents are not division opponents who can challenge us. So it's kind of like we haven't lost at all :D:

- We are still the best team in baseball.

- Ozzie is a great manager who can get these guys going when he feels the time is right.

- If a good trade is out there KW will make it.

- We are still the best team in baseball.

- Sometimes teams go through a 20 game stretch where they play a lot of really bad games.

There...I feel better for the off day now.

itsnotrequired
07-28-2005, 10:01 AM
Yes, people thought that the Sox would play at a .700 clip all season, and, of course, that is unrealistic. The slump has finally come and even the Royals can take a series every once in a while.

I don't like losing, but the slump isn't the problem. It is how the team will react to it. Panic and the lead will shrink. Realize there are low points in season and you'll clinch even sooner.

The Royals are a team that have swept both the Dodgers and the Yankees this year.

samram
07-28-2005, 10:05 AM
The Royals are a team that have swept both the Dodgers and the Yankees this year.

Yup. The D-Rays swept the Yankees too and took three of four from the Yanks in the Bronx. The Angels were swept at home by the Mariners in a four game series. They also just lost two of three to the Blue Jays. Teams lose to lesser teams during the year. It's July and the Sox have an eleven game lead. Everyone relax.

LVSoxFan
07-28-2005, 10:24 AM
I was at the last two games in KC--right behind our dugout. Meaning: I got to see up close what was going on.

My overwhelming impression was that the errors killed us. Tuesday night was a freakin' mess--embarassing, Oakland-like. If I'm not mistaken, they scored something like 3-4 runs off our errors alone.

If this team is built on pitching and defense, it's pretty simple. Tuesday night:

Pitching: kinda
Defense: a joke
Offense: non-existent

Thus, a loss.

Wednesday:

Pitching: yes
Defense: once again, no
Offense: in the beginning, then none.

Thus, a loss.

Monday night:

Pitching: shaky, but yes
Defense: yes
Offense: awesome

Thus, a win.

Iguchi has made a lot of inexplicable errors lately. I watched him boot a ground ball when we were up 5-0--and that was not the first one. He bobbled one earlier but managed to get it to first in time. That error put a man on base and brought Sweeney to the plate. Sweeney would then hit a two-run homer. We did not score again after that. It was like Crede's drop that gave Ramirez a second chance. I had to leave in the 8th, and the last play I saw was Gload miss the double-play ball, which led to... Sweeney's three-run homer. I'm seeing a pattern here.

It's quite simple: when built around pitching and defense, if either one fails then we lose, unless the offense is going to bail us out. But that's 2004: if we're waiting for the offense to bail us out with home run fests, then we're abandoning our new approach. And that approach is what got us this far in 2005.

BTW, we're hitting the ball like absolute crap lately. Yeah Crede got a dinger (that was a monster home run to see it live) and Dye put a few on the grass at Kauffman, but what happend to our hit-and-move guys approach? Watching them swing away--and miss--up close was painful.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-28-2005, 10:28 AM
I do not mind watching the Sox play a few games here with some indifference. Better now than later. Keep guys fresh and get through the long upcoming August healthy and ready for September.

The team is still settling in after the loss of Frank again and still waiting for that shoe to truly hit the floor.

KW will probably make a move and the Sox will be fine, but let's not start panicing because the Sox are coasting a bit with a 12 game lead in late July.

1,000% agree. We are 12 games up and the team knows it. Did anyone expect them to be jacked for the Royals?

infohawk
07-28-2005, 10:39 AM
Iguchi has made a lot of inexplicable errors lately.

Someone posted that Iguchi has a "bum ankle." Is this true? If so, it could be effecting his defense and the reason why Willie was inserted into a couple of games. We do have some guys who are a little beat-up. Crede, Hermy and possibly Iguchi?