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beausox
11-25-2001, 11:59 AM
Our three options at third base in 2002.

Joe Crede-Our third basemen of the future, and now, we throw him in and see what he can do. Defensively he'll be fine, offensively is a question. Our offense can make up for any struggles he might have though.

Robin Ventura-Can probably be had from the Mets for Singleton and a Reliever (Lowe?). He could man third for a year, show Crede the ropes, and hopefully play his usual gold-glove defense. If were lucky he'll rediscover his swing and give us some desperately needed left-handed sock.

Scott Rolen-A far out idea that might be the best option. Crede would have to be sent to the Phillies to get this deal done. Rolen is only 26 and could be a franchise player for the next 10 years. He is an offensive machine and a gold-glove third basemen. If we sweetened the pot enough we coudl get the Phillies to also include all-star catcher Mike Lieberthal. This deal would take several prospects, including Crede, but it would give us two great players.

Spiff
11-25-2001, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by beausox
Our three options at third base in 2002.

Joe Crede-Our third basemen of the future, and now, we throw him in and see what he can do. Defensively he'll be fine, offensively is a question. Our offense can make up for any struggles he might have though.

The offense won't make up for it if we trade Lee and keep Clayton in like some people want to. Add in Alomar and you have much less offense.

KempersRS
11-25-2001, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by beausox
Our three options at third base in 2002.

Joe Crede-Our third basemen of the future, and now, we throw him in and see what he can do. Defensively he'll be fine, offensively is a question. Our offense can make up for any struggles he might have though.[/B]

Management seems to hate Crede. Somewhere along the line, Crede kicked JM's dog one too many times. He struggled in AAA last year, but how can we ever know what he is capable of without given a chance?

Robin Ventura-Can probably be had from the Mets for Singleton and a Reliever (Lowe?). He could man third for a year, show Crede the ropes, and hopefully play his usual gold-glove defense. If were lucky he'll rediscover his swing and give us some desperately needed left-handed sock.[/B]

Singleton and Lowe for Ventura would be highway robbery. Lowe is a legitamate 3rd or 4th starter, and a great long reliever when in the pen. Throw in the fact that Ventura is old and washed up, it's a pretty bad deal. Ventura shouldn't be anywhere near this team next season.

Scott Rolen-A far out idea that might be the best option. Crede would have to be sent to the Phillies to get this deal done. Rolen is only 26 and could be a franchise player for the next 10 years. He is an offensive machine and a gold-glove third basemen. If we sweetened the pot enough we coudl get the Phillies to also include all-star catcher Mike Lieberthal. This deal would take several prospects, including Crede, but it would give us two great players. [/B]

Rolen will ONLY play for a team committed to winning. That is why he is not playing for the Phillies, that is why he will not play for the White Sox.

duke of dorwood
11-25-2001, 01:28 PM
These days, I think Lee's numbers can be made up, either by someone we get in trade, or just by eliminating Clayton from the line up. Its time for Crede. He's got to see the pitchers, get help from major league coaches, and the other players on the team. Defensively he's our best.

Keystone Combo
11-25-2001, 02:33 PM
Forget Robin Ventura, we went through the good feeling thing with Harold Baines this year. We don't need to smear Robin's stats that he had with the Sox by making him look bad here in Chicago in 2002. Enough said about favorite players, now about winning.

We have to move some DHs (like a Lee, Valentin, or Thomas) and address the defense with a catcher, shortstop, thirdbaseman, centerfielder and possibly even a secondbaseman. I for one am tired of watching a terrible defense constantly having to rely on the offense to bail them out.

Yes, we do need a veteran pitcher to lead the way!

Scott Rolen would look good at third base!!!

RedPinStripes
11-25-2001, 02:53 PM
The best possible chioce is Scott Rolen. With Jerry's low payroll, we all know Crede will be there. If Crede don't hit, we'll improve by putting Valentine there if Clayton is not gone. <insert sarcasm here>

Daver
11-25-2001, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum
The best possible chioce is Scott Rolen. With Jerry's low payroll, we all know Crede will be there. If Crede don't hit, we'll improve by putting Valentine there if Clayton is gone. <insert sarcasm here>

Joe Crede is the best possible choice,what is the point of developing young talent if you never use it?

Keystone Combo
11-25-2001, 03:05 PM
They won't spend the money on Rolen for sure. I would have to agree with you in saying that Crede is the man. I think it is time that they give him the chance to live up to the reputation that has been expressed by so many people and publications in the past 3 or 4 years.

Stick with Crede for the season.......at least until All-Star break. Remember Robin Ventura went 0-23 and people were starting to doubt him back than too. I am more concern with catcher and shortstop.

I think it is time to move Valentin......he hurts you too much in the field, and if he can't throw from short than it won't be any better from third. Carlos Lee, I love his bat, but he is one of the worst leftfielders in all of baseball. Don't forget there are at least two leftfielders who will be out of a job with contraction.

RedPinStripes
11-25-2001, 03:07 PM
That's white sox baseball. Hype the hell out of them and rush them, when they don't succeed, dump their ass. I have a lot of confidence in Crede. I would take Rolen in a trade though.

Chisoxfn
11-25-2001, 03:08 PM
Gotta go with my boy Joe Crede. This guy not only gives us a very solid glove as well as range over at 3rd but a potential great bat. He seems to have a nice swing, but he's been working a lot in developing more of an inside out swing. At times last year he looked overwhelmed but at other times he was smoking the ball. My big ? is why the heck have we made him fart around in the minors so long. This guy was ready to take the job at the start of the season and should of done that. If he did we would be in great shape at 3rd for next year but now we have to give him the time of developing.

Personally, Scott Rolen is a great idea but I don't want him. He's a had a lot of back trouble for someone at such a young age and when you play 3rd base its only going to get worse. I think Rolen will soon be a player that finds himself on the dl a couple times a year and thats not someone I want to invest a lot of money and prospects in. If the White Sox are willing to pay someone the money then why not go and trade for a front line starter or get a top leadoff man like Johnny Damon. Those 2 would do wonders to this team and would definately be much safer and more sane ways to go.

As far as my beliefs, I say we better deal Carlos Lee. That guy is the worse defensive left fielder I've seen. I would feel just as comfortable with Jose Canseco out there and that doesn't say much. If we can deal Lee for a guy like Matt Clement or Ryan Demster(Include a prospect) then we'd put our team in better position. We have a man in Aaron Rowand that I love and want to see play left. Then I'd invest my money in Johnny Damon to play center and if Borchard develops like we want him to we have the option to deal Rowand or Damon and help ourselves at another position.

When I think of shortstop I say the heck with both of our guys. Jose is a great fielder but has absolutely no accuracy on his arm and is a guy I can't rely on. Royce has a much more accurate arm but doesn't have near the range of Jose nor the bat. I propose we dump them in deals(Royce to Dodgers and Jose to whoever) and sign Rey Sanchez and recieve a good ss prospect for Jose to develop when Rey is ready to leave. Sanchez provides a solid bat(.280 or so) but also has a great glove and is supposed to be a good guy in the clubhouse.

KW will definately have a lot of options this offseason and I think his moves will set the tone not only for next year but our whole future as well as his.

Daver
11-25-2001, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
Don't forget there are at least two leftfielders who will be out of a job with contraction.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

:)

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


Singleton and Lowe for Ventura would be highway robbery. Lowe is a legitamate 3rd or 4th starter, and a great long reliever when in the pen. Throw in the fact that Ventura is old and washed up, it's a pretty bad deal. Ventura shouldn't be anywhere near this team next season.


How can Lowe be a legitimate starter when he's never started more than 11 games or thrown more than 127 innings? In his five year career he's started just 21 times, that's not even a full season.

Realistically I wouldn't be opposed to getting Ventura for just Singleton and Lowe as long as the Mets didn't stick us with all his salary and the Sox were realistic about what Ventura can and can't do at this stage of his career.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by beausox
Our three options at third base in 2002.

Joe Crede

Robin Ventura.

Scott Rolen


Let's get serious here people.
Ventura is past his prime and trading for him only hurts Crede. The day Scott Rolen is wearing a Sox uniform is the day Daver owns the Sox, so that's out.

Here are the real options for third:

A: Crede
B: Valentin
C: Liefer

RedPinStripes
11-25-2001, 03:13 PM
Finally! I found someone who wants Rey Sanchez. Be prepared for a brawl if we keep talking about Rey. I got your back.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
The offense won't make up for it if we trade Lee and keep Clayton in like some people want to. Add in Alomar and you have much less offense.

I don't think they are going to trade Carlos.

Chisoxfn
11-25-2001, 03:16 PM
I'm with ya. Everytime I ever bring up the name Sanchez everyone seems to jump out and rip the guy. The fact is he's a leader, won't be too expensive, plays great short, and holds his own with the lumber.

Glad to see someone who agrees.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
These days, I think Lee's numbers can be made up, either by someone we get in trade, or just by eliminating Clayton from the line up. Its time for Crede. He's got to see the pitchers, get help from major league coaches, and the other players on the team. Defensively he's our best.

Well it depends on what numbers your talking about. Carlos is the type of hitter who can hit .320 with 30-40 homers and 100+ rbi's. Eliminating Clayton from the lineup is alot more easier said then done.

Daver
11-25-2001, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I don't think they are going to trade Carlos.

Of course they won't,it makes to much sense.

:)

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by daver
Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.


Yeah looks like Bud bit off more then he can chew here.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by daver
Of course they won't,it makes to much sense.


Well that's your opinion that it makes sense. But yes this is the White Sox were talking about.

Chisoxfn
11-25-2001, 03:20 PM
Ian do you honestly believe that Caballo can hit .320 with 30-40 homers. I've been watching Carlos for a while and I just can't see a free swinger like him who has no idea of the strike zone turning into that type of a hitter.

Last year the guy managed to hit .260 or so and even worse in the 2nd half of the season. I think the fact is pitchers made their adjustments and learned how to pitch to him. Sure you can say Vladdy is that same type of guy who has no judgement of the strikezone but he never had a season like last year.

To me Carlos at best becomes a .280-.290 hitter who tops out with 30 homers(Career year 35) and knocks in 100 rbi's if on a good offense. He'll also cost you a ton of runs in the field. I can't even count on all my toes and fingers how many times Carlos misplayed a ball and it wound up going from an out or a single to a double or even triple. Those types of plays cost you a lot more runs then I am willing to give up. Now if he put up Sammy numbers I wouldn't complain but the fact is he doesn't. We have a better dh in The Big Hurt so I see no room for him.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
I'm with ya. Everytime I ever bring up the name Sanchez everyone seems to jump out and rip the guy. The fact is he's a leader, won't be too expensive, plays great short, and holds his own with the lumber.

Glad to see someone who agrees.

Rey Sanchez is a leader? Wouldn't you expect a leader to have a history of success? Sanchez spent the first half of his career on bad Cubs teams that went no where. They traded him away in 1997 to the Yankees midseason. That was the only Yankee team from 96-2001 that didn't make it to the World Series. The next year the now Sanchez-less Cubs actually made the playoffs.

Rey the Great moved onto the Giants who didn't make the playoff after winning their division the year before. Then Rey spent the next 2.5 yeras on the Royals, nuff said there. He was then traded to the only good team to ever have him as a regular, the Braves who had him as a stopgap to replace the injured Rafael Furcal. For them he hit .220 with a 512 OPS and they were bounced out the playoffs by the D-Backs in the NLCS.

In short he's been on two good teams and both of them traded for him midseason. One to be on thier bench and the other out of desperation to fill a hole when their only other option was Mark DeRosa.

I'll give you the guy plays great D but do we really need a shorstop WHO HITS WORSE THAN ROYCE CLAYTON? Sure he hits .270-.280 but he doesn't have power, draw walks or steal bases. There are 7 basic skills to look for in a positioned player, hitting for average, power, walks, stolen bases, range afield, throwing and reliability. Out of those 7 there are only two you can say Sanchez is clearly better than Jose. Hitting for average and reliability.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Ian do you honestly believe that Caballo can hit .320 with 30-40 homers. Last year the guy managed to hit .260 or so and even worse in the 2nd half of the season. I think the fact is pitchers made their adjustments and learned how to pitch to him. Sure you can say Vladdy is that same type of guy who has no judgement of the strikezone but he never had a season like last year.

To me Carlos at best becomes a .280-.290 hitter who tops out with 30 homers(Career year 35) and knocks in 100 rbi's if on a good offense. He'll also cost you a ton of runs in the field. I can't even count on all my toes and fingers how many times Carlos misplayed a ball and it wound up going from an out or a single to a double or even triple.

I really think he can, this year if there is baseball should be a good year for him. Last year was a joke after Thomas went down. One day he's batting 2nd, then the next he is batting 6th. Manuel needs to put him in one spot in the order and keave him there. I think with Thomas back he'll have a big year. I know he's not the best fielder, lets hope the Sox find a center fielder and stick with that guy next year. Not a rotation, of Simmons then Chris, then Rowand. I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for Carlos Lee because there really isn't one.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I really think he can, this year if there is baseball should be a good year for him. Last year was a joke after Thomas went down. One day he's batting 2nd, then the next he is batting 6th. Manuel needs to put him in one spot in the order and keave him there. I think with Thomas back he'll have a big year. I know he's not the best fielder, lets hope the Sox find a center fielder and stick with that guy next year. Not a rotation, of Simmons then Chris, then Rowand. I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for Carlos Lee because there really isn't one.

Him hitting .320 is a stretch but I bet he could come close to what Jerry expects of him if the Sox would stop making him try to play left. They're asking too much of him.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Him hitting .320 is a stretch but I bet he could come close to what Jerry expects of him if the Sox would stop making him try to play left. They're asking too much of him.

So you say DH is his best position.

GASHWOUND
11-25-2001, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


So you say DH is his best position.

Thats obvious.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


So you say DH is his best position.

Yeah but I bet he could handle first.

Daver
11-25-2001, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Yeah but I bet he could handle first.

I would cringe every time someone laid down a bunt though.

beausox
11-25-2001, 07:32 PM
One thing I think a lot of you guys have forgotten about Carlos is that three years ago he was a third basemen, not an outfielder. I know that trnaistion dosen't seem to hard, but it can be a challenge. Will Carlos ever be a gold-glvoe outfielder? No. He can become an offensive force that dosen't hurt us defensively. He's still young, cheap, learning the outfield, and hasn't reached his offensive potential. Giving up on him at this stage would be one of the stupidest things we could do.

On another subject, I am a huge Rey Sanchez fan. He is teh most underrated SS in the game. If he hadn't been traded to the Braves he should've won the AL gold glove. He is a defensive wizard, and should've been the Royals all-star representative this year. However, he is the last thing this team needs. Clayton is a better overall SS then him and we are trying to get rid of Clayton.

Sanchez is a great SS that can play outstanding defense, hit .270 and lay down the bunt so he dosen't hurt you on defense, but he does not fit this team. He cannot help a team if he outhits that teams catcher!

ExSoxFan
11-25-2001, 08:52 PM
If KW trades Lowe, it's proof that he's insane. Lowe does anything the Sox ask him to, and he gets people out.

My lasting image of 2001 is Lowe coming in to keep the Sox in a game after The Savior, David Wells, couldn't get anyone out.

Rey Sanchez is a capable role player, nothing more. Good with the glove, okay with the bat, a little power. Nothing embarrassing, nothing inspiring.

doublem23
11-25-2001, 10:35 PM
The thing that worries me so much about this whole Crede/Ventura/Rolen/etc. deal is that it's showing me the Sox have absolutely no idea what they want to do next year (if there's baseball at all).

If you don't play Crede, you're saying that we think we have a high quality team here that can contend, so we want to try and make a run at it with some expierence at third...

... but the Sox are saying that they aren't gonna make a major FA move to improve other weak areas, so they are essentially saying that we're not championship-caliber yet, so why wouldn't you test out Crede to see if he's the next Robin Ventura or if he's the next Chris Snopek.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

guillen4life13
11-26-2001, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
Ian do you honestly believe that Caballo can hit .320 with 30-40 homers. I've been watching Carlos for a while and I just can't see a free swinger like him who has no idea of the strike zone turning into that type of a hitter.

Last year the guy managed to hit .260 or so and even worse in the 2nd half of the season. I think the fact is pitchers made their adjustments and learned how to pitch to him. Sure you can say Vladdy is that same type of guy who has no judgement of the strikezone but he never had a season like last year.

To me Carlos at best becomes a .280-.290 hitter who tops out with 30 homers(Career year 35) and knocks in 100 rbi's if on a good offense. He'll also cost you a ton of runs in the field. I can't even count on all my toes and fingers how many times Carlos misplayed a ball and it wound up going from an out or a single to a double or even triple. Those types of plays cost you a lot more runs then I am willing to give up. Now if he put up Sammy numbers I wouldn't complain but the fact is he doesn't. We have a better dh in The Big Hurt so I see no room for him.


I would like to point out that C. Lee hit .313 in the first half of the season. That's above the norm. He fizzled in the second half, which means that he should really be taught to be able to keep an idea of the strike zone for the whole year.

In essence, he was Royce Clayton's equivalent. Just switch the first half with the second.

If carlos can sustain a BA of about .310, he'll probably be an all-star, and Lee can give you your 30-40 home runs.

I think I've made my point.

I agree with Jerry here.

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I would like to point out that C. Lee hit .313 in the first half of the season. That's above the norm. He fizzled in the second half, which means that he should really be taught to be able to keep an idea of the strike zone for the whole year.

If carlos can sustain a BA of about .310, he'll probably be an all-star, and Lee can give you your 30-40 home runs.

I think I've made my point.

I agree with Jerry here.

Lee had a bad 2nd half because Manuel kept batting him in different spots.

guillen4life13
11-26-2001, 05:28 PM
In regards to the whole 3B situation. The Sox management just needs to make up its mind.

Us fans here don't like it when you get our hopes up, and immediately (spelling) break our hearts.

And this time, it ain't $252 million we're talking about.

kermittheefrog
11-26-2001, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13



I would like to point out that C. Lee hit .313 in the first half of the season. That's above the norm. He fizzled in the second half, which means that he should really be taught to be able to keep an idea of the strike zone for the whole year.

In essence, he was Royce Clayton's equivalent. Just switch the first half with the second.

If carlos can sustain a BA of about .310, he'll probably be an all-star, and Lee can give you your 30-40 home runs.

I think I've made my point.

I agree with Jerry here.

Thing is guys that have as little control of the strike zone as Lee almost never hit that high of an average for a long period of time.

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Thing is guys that have as little control of the strike zone as Lee almost never hit that high of an average for a long period of time.


In your opinion what is the highest he could hit on a consistent year to year basis?

WinningUgly!
11-26-2001, 11:01 PM
Crede's our 3rdbaseman! It should be his job to lose coming out of spring training. I'd love to see him batting in the 2 hole ahead of Big Frank(assuming Thomas is healthy). Let Crede get some fat pitches to hit & he'll be fine.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



In your opinion what is the highest he could hit on a consistent year to year basis?

High end he could hit around .290. Guys like Garret Anderson, Rondell White and Roberto Kelly do well without controlling the strike zone, they hit in the .290s but they have the best batting averages for guys with Carlos type plate discipline. Carlos seems to be a good average hitter despite not controlling the strike zone, just like those other three guys.

FarWestChicago
11-27-2001, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


High end he could hit around .290. Guys like Garret Anderson, Rondell White and Roberto Kelly do well without controlling the strike zone, they hit in the .290s but they have the best batting averages for guys with Carlos type plate discipline. Carlos seems to be a good average hitter despite not controlling the strike zone, just like those other three guys. Kermit, I may be wrong because I'm going on distant memories, but I believe Roberto Clemente and Yogi Berra were famous for having "large" strike zones. Do the numbers back this up?

RedPinStripes
11-27-2001, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Lee had a bad 2nd half because Manuel kept batting him in different spots.

I think Lee had a bad second half because pitchers figured out that he can't go with a pitch to the opposite field. I see him try to pull outside pitches all the time. That never works no matter how strong you are. Every homer he hits is high and inside.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Kermit, I may be wrong because I'm going on distant memories, but I believe Roberto Clemente and Yogi Berra were famous for having "large" strike zones. Do the numbers back this up?

Based on things I've read and his numbers I see Roberto Clemente as a Nomar Garciaparra or Vlad Guerrero type hitter. A guy who has a big zone but doesn't strike out excessively or walk alot because he makes such good contact.

And that's definitely not true about Berra. His career high in Ks for a season was 38. Ironically Carlos' career high in walks. He didn't walk a ton but he walked a lot more than he struck out and clearly had control of the stike zone.

FarWestChicago
11-27-2001, 01:33 AM
That wasn't my question. I recall neither of them walking much at all. Is that true? I know they were great hitters. What were their average walks per year like? They were both known for swinging at anything. Of course, they hit most anything. Was their reptuation backed up by the numbers?

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
That wasn't my question. I recall neither of them walking much at all. Is that true? I know they were great hitters. What were their average walks per year like? They were both known for swinging at anything. Of course, they hit most anything. Was their reptuation backed up by the numbers?

Well Clemente only walked about 30-40 times a year. Berra was better than that like 50-60 times a year. I really doubt Berra would swing at anything based on the numbers. He probably had a very good eye but just didn't wlk because he made so much contact. Clemente seems more like the swing at everything type.

Better answer or am I still missing something?

FarWestChicago
11-27-2001, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Well Clemente only walked about 30-40 times a year. Berra was better than that like 50-60 times a year. I really doubt Berra would swing at anything based on the numbers. He probably had a very good eye but just didn't wlk because he made so much contact. Clemente seems more like the swing at everything type.

Better answer or am I still missing something? No, that's great. Clemente was amazing. I was too young for Berra. But, Roberto swung at everything. I bet he probably had a few intentional walks every year. :smile: What a player.

scottmt
11-27-2001, 02:18 AM
I say we start the year with Konerko at third and let Frank tough it out at first. It'll never happen, I know, but to me that's the best solution if Crede's not ready.

-smt

FarWestChicago
11-27-2001, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by scottmt
I say we start the year with Konerko at third and let Frank tough it out at first. It'll never happen, I know, but to me that's the best solution if Crede's not ready.

-smt Hey, I know you've been a member for a while. But, welcome to WSI!! :D:

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by scottmt
I say we start the year with Konerko at third and let Frank tough it out at first. It'll never happen, I know, but to me that's the best solution if Crede's not ready.

-smt

Konerko at third? That's a scary thought. How about we just all stab ourselves in the eye instead. He's got the arm for it as a former catcher but he just doesn't have any sort of speed or quickness whatsoever. Although I'll always remember him for that in the park homerun against Tampa Bay a couple years ago.

doublem23
11-27-2001, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Konerko at third? That's a scary thought. How about we just all stab ourselves in the eye instead. He's got the arm for it as a former catcher but he just doesn't have any sort of speed or quickness whatsoever. Although I'll always remember him for that in the park homerun against Tampa Bay a couple years ago.

Konerko? At third? Why don't we just stick Liefer there while we're at it?

:jerry
That's a good idea.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Konerko? At third? Why don't we just stick Liefer there while we're at it?

:jerry
That's a good idea.

Sad thing is he was supposedly sent to winter league to work on playing third but I can't find him anywhere.

Paulwny
11-27-2001, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Sad thing is he was supposedly sent to winter league to work on playing third but I can't find him anywhere.

Here he is, plus Rowand but, I don't understand the article.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.vocero.com/noticia.asp%3Fn%3D8984&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJeff%2BLiefer%26start%3D100%26hl%3Den %26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN

Paulwny
11-27-2001, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny


Here he is, plus Rowand but, I don't understand the article.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.vocero.com/noticia.asp%3Fn%3D8984&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJeff%2BLiefer%26start%3D100%26hl%3Den %26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN


That's good it's gives the Spanish even though I copied the English. The English article is just as hard to understand, sorry for the screw up.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny



That's good it's gives the Spanish even though I copied the English. The English article is just as hard to understand, sorry for the screw up.

It gave me the english article, the mistranslations are great. I especially like the Sox being called the "Average White."

Paulwny
11-27-2001, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Sad thing is he was supposedly sent to winter league to work on playing third but I can't find him anywhere.


Hirings in bulk in Caguas


The VOCERO/Baltasar Vázquez


By: King Columbus
Editor The SPOKESMAN
The news left published in: 10/5/2001

CAGUAS  the Creole champions of Caguas announced yesterday the hiring of eight reinforcements among them the strong batter Jeff Liefer, of the Average White of Chicago, that until had connected 19 home runs with ninth happiness yesterday, and well-known the Aaron Rowand and Archie Corvin, according to presented Juanchi Snows, coach of throwers.

The left-handed person who threw a game without hit nor races in Great Leagues with the Brewers of Milwaukee indicated that five of these concerned will be serpentineros of which two will be relevistas initiators and the rest.

to Liefer plays third base and outfield, is a left-handed batter and right now it is in the Great Leagues. He takes like 19 home runs in the about three time that is been above that is meses, expressed.

From the Sailors of Seattle, utility Todd Betts comes, that can play in the initial, the waiting room and the forests.

Es a left-handed batter and is of high average average, that I create needs specially to us when they gamble in great parks like in Caguas and Ponce. Ofensiva is important to maintain that, explained.

While, it said that Aaron Rowand, that the last year was in the novena and that at the moment it is in the Great Circus with the Average White, called to indicate that he was available and immediately was signed.

Todos know it. He was our forester and above it is in the central garden. It is playing every day after raising half of season and is batting 300 and with his experience of the year last, that was our champion beats, it goes to contribuir, aimed.

The rest of the mattered ones is right George Fogg, also of the Average White; Chris Peters, of the Yankees of New York; Archie Corvin (White Sox); Brian Schmack, of Texas; and Brandon Donelly, that will be the lock.

Fogg is now in Great Leagues and will be one of the openers. The other opener is the Peters left-handed person, who has four years of experience in Great Leagues, and is of the Yankees. We repeated to the right Corvin, that is intimidante and has much speed. The other relevista is the right Schmack and the last one is Donelly, that belongs to Anaheim and has been in Great Leagues. He will be closer, added.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 05:20 PM
Thing is Leifer hasn't played a game for them. So we still don't know what's going on with him.

WinningUgly!
11-27-2001, 06:13 PM
How about we just all stab ourselves in the eye instead.

lmao! Classic Kermie! :kermit

Spiff
11-27-2001, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
From the Sailors of Seattle, utility Todd Betts comes, that can play in the initial, the waiting room and the forests.


LOL oh my the translations. I can understand most of the spanish article though it's not that hard.

Paulwny
11-27-2001, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


LOL oh my the translations. I can understand most of the spanish article though it's not that hard.

I took French in hs. I'm lost with the English and the Spanish.

guillen4life13
11-27-2001, 06:49 PM
Last year I believe that during the offseason, Paul Konerko actually practiced third base so that maybe Big Frank could play first, and they could either add another potent bat to the lineup or move Lee or Valentin to the DH slot. Konerko also played catcher, as pointed out earlier, so he has the arm. He is a pretty good first baseman (just above average, but not by much). That means that his third base skills aren't going to be as good because he as a first baseman isn't as challenged when right handed hitters are there. When a lefty is hitting, for all essential purposes, he's a third baseman, because it is the habit of many hitters to pull the ball.

I think the prospect of moving P.K. to third is certainly doable, but how is it going to help this team? It would mean yet another year of delay for Joe Crede. I think he's earned the right to have a starting job to lose already. The only way I would see it ok for Crede's development to be screwed is if he's traded, but ONLY FOR A SUPERSTAR.

As for Lee... this offseason I'm pretty sure he is going to work very hard on his fielding and hitting, and will come back strong next year, hitting in the .300 range.

Just a prediction. For all I know he'll hit .050 for the season.

As daver says, "But then again, what the hell do I know?"

guillen4life13
11-27-2001, 06:50 PM
Liefer doesn't have a place on this team!!

He's a horrific fielder, and is already in his late 20's. He may get better, but that is very very doubtful.

Daver
11-27-2001, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
As daver says, "But then again, what the hell do I know?"

I have that copyrighted.

Crede should be the starting third baseman whenever baseball returns,you do not invest in young talent to have them rot in the minors.

But then again what the hell do I know? ©

Spiff
11-27-2001, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by daver


I have that copyrighted.

Crede should be the starting third baseman whenever baseball returns,you do not invest in young talent to have them rot in the minors.

But then again what the hell do I know? ©

:jerry

You are obviously unfamiliar with my M.O.

CerberusWG
11-27-2001, 07:52 PM
I might as well jump in, but wait there won't be baseball next year! Bud Selig needs to be taken out of his Commisioner role, Daver you up for it? ;)

Daver
11-27-2001, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
I might as well jump in, but wait there won't be baseball next year! Bud Selig needs to be taken out of his Commisioner role, Daver you up for it? ;)

Impossible now,Bud got his extension

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2001/11/27/selig_contract_ap/

I don't think anyone else would agree with you anyway Cerbeus.

CerberusWG
11-27-2001, 08:02 PM
Might as well expect Selig getting a Coach K deal soon.

"Bud Selig pronounced Baseball Commish for life!"

Joy!

Keystone Combo
07-21-2002, 05:39 PM
You said:

"I don't think they are going to trade Carlos." :?:


My question to you now, 21 July 2002, is:

Do you still believe that they won't trade Carlos Lee? :gulp:

SOXSINCE'70
07-21-2002, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by daver


Joe Crede is the best possible choice,what is the point of developing young talent if you never use it?

I agree.It's time to see what he's got.I need to see him get 500 AB's and see how he adjusts to Major League pitching.