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PatK
07-26-2005, 10:02 AM
Or do they even have one?

When watching one of the games with the Red Sox over the weekend, we noticed the "C" on Varitek's jersey and got to discussing who the Sox captain was.

I said that not all teams have a captain, and that even when they do, they don't always put the "C" on the jersey.

I don't know if the Sox have one or not, but I'm curious to know.

If I'd have to guess, I'd say either Rowand or Burlymon.

bluestar
07-26-2005, 10:17 AM
Designating someone as "Captain" is for hockey teams, not baseball. I hate it every time I see that "C" on Varitek's jersey.

dcb33
07-26-2005, 10:19 AM
There are only three teams in baseball that have a team captain:

Yankees- Derek Jeter
Red Sox- Jason Varitek
Royals- Mike Sweeney

LuvSox
07-26-2005, 10:19 AM
Ozzie is the Sox captain.

TornLabrum
07-26-2005, 10:20 AM
Designating someone as "Captain" is for hockey teams, not baseball. I hate it every time I see that "C" on Varitek's jersey.

There have been captains on baseball teams for years. Pee Wee Reese was captain of the Brooklyn Dodgers. The first time I ever saw a "C" on a baseball uniform was when the Cubs named multiple captains (because Sammy bitched that he should be one, too). Leave it to the Cubs to start a lame practice like that and for the BoSox to follow.

scottjanssens
07-26-2005, 11:11 AM
I don't know if the current Sox have a captain, but back in the early 90's Fisk and Guillen were co-captains. The concept of co-captains always bugged me. How can you be 1/2 a leader? It's binary, you're either the team leader or you aren't. Actually with co-captains one's the team leader and the other's getting his ego stroked.

bluestar
07-26-2005, 11:25 AM
I am actually not opposed to a team designating a player or players as captain(s) to acknowledge special leadership qualities they exhibit, and I realize baseball teams have done this over the years. The practice of placing a "C" on the uniform, however, I think is a little silly and unnecessary in baseball. I don't even know why it bothers me. It just isn't a baseball tradition.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2005, 11:27 AM
I don't know if the current Sox have a captain, but back in the early 90's Fisk and Guillen were co-captains. The concept of co-captains always bugged me. How can you be 1/2 a leader? It's binary, you're either the team leader or you aren't. Actually with co-captains one's the team leader and the other's getting his ego stroked.

Kind of like the Bulls with Jordan and Pippen, though it could be aruged that both were getting their ego's fed by Jackson. I always thought Bill Cartwright was a better leader and mentor for the young players than M. Jeff.

What do you think about teams with tri-captains? The Knicks used this format under Jeff Van Gundy during the late 90's (Ewing, Johnson, Oakley). Or does it bother you that each person is only 1/3 of a leader?

scottjanssens
07-26-2005, 11:34 AM
What do you think about teams with tri-captains? The Knicks used this format under Jeff Van Gundy during the late 90's (Ewing, Johnson, Oakley). Or does it bother you that each person is only 1/3 of a leader?

I don't follow basketball but their rosters are 12 men if I remember correctly. So 25% of the team was a captain? I'm assuming the three were starters which would make 60% of the starters captains. That's so many as to be meaningless. That'd be like having six captains on a baseball team.

The leader is the guy you'd first go to when you had a problem or a beef or needed advice. This may or may not be the captain.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2005, 11:37 AM
I don't follow basketball but their rosters are 12 men if I remember correctly. So 25% of the team was a captain? I'm assuming the three were starters which would make 60% of the starters captains. That's so many as to be meaningless. That'd be like having six captains on a baseball team.

The leader is the guy you'd first go to when you had a problem or a beef or needed advice. This may or may not be the captain.

Yes, all three of them were starters. Of the three, Johnson was the most vocal in terms of instructing other players and resolving any issues/problems within the team. Ewing is regarded by many as the greatest player in Knicks history, so it's not difficult to see why he would be in a leadership position. Oakley led by example, diving on the floor for loose balls, chasing after rebounds, etc.

chaerulez
07-26-2005, 11:39 AM
There have been captains on baseball teams for years. Pee Wee Reese was captain of the Brooklyn Dodgers. The first time I ever saw a "C" on a baseball uniform was when the Cubs named multiple captains (because Sammy bitched that he should be one, too). Leave it to the Cubs to start a lame practice like that and for the BoSox to follow.

Wasn't Shammy the lone captain in his entire Cubs tenure? I just remember all the talk about Baker refusing to take away the captain tag from him because he didn't give it to him.

Also hockey isn't the only sport that most teams name captains, football and basketball teams usually have captins. I believe the Bulls actually had three captains this past season- Hinrich, AD, and Adrain Griffin. The Bears I believe have 3-4 captains.

harwar
07-26-2005, 11:43 AM
If anyone would be "the captain' it would be Ozzie.
However;It seems to me that Ozzie is more like a bosun.
Hes' the guy that has to deal with the crew,day in and day out,and make sure that they do their work and keep their minds right.
Kw fits "the captains' role,with JR being lord muck.
The White sox are kind of like a pirate ship,sailing the high seas in search of plunder and glory.

scottjanssens
07-26-2005, 11:44 AM
Yes, all three of them were starters. Of the three, Johnson was the most vocal in terms of instructing other players and resolving any issues/problems within the team. Ewing is regarded by many as the greatest player in Knicks history, so it's not difficult to see why he would be in a leadership position. Oakley led by example, diving on the floor for loose balls, chasing after rebounds, etc.

Sounds like the Sox to me. I don't know if the Sox have a formal captain or not, but they appear to have a "flat" heirarchy. No single person is really a de facto leader. They all lead and they all follow. There's no real captain, vice-captain, vice-captain once removed on the bullpen catcher's side...

fquaye149
07-26-2005, 11:47 AM
Wasn't Shammy the lone captain in his entire Cubs tenure? I just remember all the talk about Baker refusing to take away the captain tag from him because he didn't give it to him.

Also hockey isn't the only sport that most teams name captains, football and basketball teams usually have captins. I believe the Bulls actually had three captains this past season- Hinrich, AD, and Adrain Griffin. The Bears I believe have 3-4 captains.

In hockey and football captains are much more than ceremonious positions - they actually have a function. Granted the function in football is minor (to call the coin toss and agree to ground rules [i think]).

In hockey, however, it is necessary to have the C patch and the A patch for alternate captain. The Captains and Alternates are the only players allowed to talk to the refs to clarify penalties and dispute calls. Period. If they didn't have the letters sewn on their sweaters it would make things a lot more difficult for the refs. There is absolutely no reason to have the C sewn on a baseball uniform. It is stupid bull**** and should stop immediately (it won't)

scottjanssens
07-26-2005, 11:48 AM
The Bears I believe have 3-4 captains.

Football is a bit different with captains. Football has distinct organizational divisions: offense, defense, special teams. Having a captain for each group makes a certain amount of sense. There's also 52 people on an NFL roster. A football team is also very hierarchical in nature with first string, second string, etc.

munchman33
07-26-2005, 11:56 AM
Or do they even have one?


When watching one of the games with the Red Sox over the weekend, we noticed the "C" on Varitek's jersey and got to discussing who the Sox captain was.

I said that not all teams have a captain, and that even when they do, they don't always put the "C" on the jersey.

I don't know if the Sox have one or not, but I'm curious to know.

If I'd have to guess, I'd say either Rowand or Burlymon.

Konerko

infohawk
07-26-2005, 12:04 PM
Ozzie is the Sox captain.

Agreed!

bluestar
07-26-2005, 12:55 PM
In hockey and football captains are much more than ceremonious positions - they actually have a function. Granted the function in football is minor (to call the coin toss and agree to ground rules [i think]).

In hockey, however, it is necessary to have the C patch and the A patch for alternate captain. The Captains and Alternates are the only players allowed to talk to the refs to clarify penalties and dispute calls. Period. If they didn't have the letters sewn on their sweaters it would make things a lot more difficult for the refs. There is absolutely no reason to have the C sewn on a baseball uniform. It is stupid bull**** and should stop immediately (it won't)

Yes! This is my point exactly; I just didn't state it very well.

Dolanski
07-26-2005, 01:28 PM
Actually, I think the captain thing isn't so bad, especially in the Red Sox case as Varitek is only the 4th captain in 80 years for the Red Sox, joining Jimmie Foxx, Yaz, and Jim Rice. So its not like this is something trival to the Carmines.

Hitmen77
07-26-2005, 01:44 PM
What does a baseball team's "captain" do anyway? Does Varitek have any official duties over his teammates? Is he officially responsible for chewing out his teammantes for not hustling enough?

The biggest joke in the history of baseball captains had to be the Cubs naming Sosa their captain. So, I guess the standard (at least on the North Side) for being a captain is having the highest salary, hitting the most HRs, and being popular with your ignorant fan base.

fquaye149
07-26-2005, 01:45 PM
Actually, I think the captain thing isn't so bad, especially in the Red Sox case as Varitek is only the 4th captain in 80 years for the Red Sox, joining Jimmie Foxx, Yaz, and Jim Rice. So its not like this is something trival to the Carmines.

Ok, but there's no real reason to put it on the uniform.

tacosalbarojas
07-26-2005, 01:48 PM
What does a baseball team's "captain" do anyway? Does Varitek have any official duties over his teammates? Is he officially responsible for chewing out his teammantes for not hustling enough?

The biggest joke in the history of baseball captains had to be the Cubs naming Sosa their captain. So, I guess the standard (at least on the North Side) for being a captain is having the highest salary, hitting the most HRs, and being popular with your ignorant fan base.Varitek and Sosa are captains like Vito on the Sopranos is a captain.

nedlug
07-26-2005, 02:52 PM
The team does not have any captains. No one player is a standout leader, and no one player has a "superstar" or "the ONE guy" persona. This is a reason the White Sox are currently 32 games over IMO. Half the team has the capability to rise up and be a leader, and the entire team can have a huge game and lead for each game. Every game, it's a different guy, and that's why it is very difficult to beat them.

I want Mags back
07-26-2005, 02:57 PM
I always thought it was funny how the Flubs had like 4-5 captains. they have an Infield one, outfield one, starting pitcher, reliever, they may have been more during the don baylor era

Elvisfan1977
07-26-2005, 02:57 PM
Ozzie is the Sox captain.

I second that! If you had to pick a MVP on this team you wouldn't be able to do it. Same goes as captain. We win as a team, and we lose as a team.

scottjanssens
07-26-2005, 03:04 PM
I second that! If you had to pick a MVP on this team you wouldn't be able to do it. Same goes as captain. We win as a team, and we lose as a team.

Garland. That was easy. No wait, Politte... definitely the Vulture. Or Buehrle... Yeah, Buehrle... or Pods... or... crap.

Dolanski
07-26-2005, 06:08 PM
Ok, but there's no real reason to put it on the uniform.

True dat. It just more of a respect thing. Then again, baseball has some sillier quirks, like managers and coaches wearing uniforms. Does any other sport ask the coach to wear a uniform? No, only baseball. Then again, it is pretty funny to see a fat middle age guy walk out in a baseball uniform. Would a Lou Pinella tirade be as entertaining if he were wearing a suit? I think not.

BNLSox
07-26-2005, 06:52 PM
Varitek and Sosa are captains like Vito on the Sopranos is a captain.

Very funny! Good stuff man!

DickAllen72
07-26-2005, 06:57 PM
The White Sox do not have a designated "captain" among the players on the team.

The closest player to being a captain is Carl.

DumpJerry
07-26-2005, 06:59 PM
I nominate our own Voodoo for Sox Captain.

batmanZoSo
07-26-2005, 07:29 PM
I think Pat "I'm getting closer to" Mahomes should be our captain.

http://www.grandstandsports.com/images/7467.jpg
I'm your captain, yeah yeah yeah yeah....

(sorry, when I get a chance for a Grand Funk reference, I have to take it!)

konerko1413
07-26-2005, 08:03 PM
i think i remember a couple of years ago thomas being made the captain, but i dont know if it really happened or if he still is, i would pick buehrle without a doubt if i had to pick one, but i think the captain has to be an everyday player, i dont think its stupid for a baseball team to have a captain, as long as he is truely deserving- my criteria would be

1- has played with the team for at least 7 years
2- is an everyday player
3- is a fan favorite (maybe even voted captain by the fans)
4- is a big contributor to the team

Guys i feel should have been captains are todd helton, tori hunter (even though i hate him),vlad guererro, craig biggio, and (when he was with the indians) omar vizquel.

I also feel two things that should be sure ins to team captaincy are playing with one team from the begining of your career for 10 plus years, and being a catcher for the same team for 5 plus years, the catcher is apart of so much of the game, that i think that in a perfect baseball world, every team would have catchers that played for their team their whole career and were the captains

RedPinStripes
07-26-2005, 08:08 PM
I hate any ******* baseball player who has to wear a "C" on his jersey. Why? because he's the first one to talk to the ump? Bull****! It's because he's a ****in egomaniac and wants to feel good about it. This is really a sore subject with me. I've ranted several times about this on my stupid radio show including Saturday night when I had to watch Varitek all night with his proud "C" . What a dick!:angry:

Chips
07-26-2005, 08:17 PM
i think i remember a couple of years ago thomas being made the captain, but i dont know if it really happened or if he still is, i would pick buehrle without a doubt if i had to pick one, but i think the captain has to be an everyday player, i dont think its stupid for a baseball team to have a captain, as long as he is truely deserving- my criteria would be

1- has played with the team for at least 7 years
2- is an everyday player
3- is a fan favorite (maybe even voted captain by the fans)
4- is a big contributor to the team

Guys i feel should have been captains are todd helton, tori hunter (even though i hate him),vlad guererro, craig biggio, and (when he was with the indians) omar vizquel.

I also feel two things that should be sure ins to team captaincy are playing with one team from the begining of your career for 10 plus years, and being a catcher for the same team for 5 plus years, the catcher is apart of so much of the game, that i think that in a perfect baseball world, every team would have catchers that played for their team their whole career and were the captains

A captain shouldn't be voted on by the fans, he should be the one to lead the team, not the guy whom the fans like the most. Besides there is no need for a captain in baseball. Especially on a team like ours.

ShoelessJoeS
07-26-2005, 08:22 PM
Besides there is no need for a captain in baseball. Especially on a team like ours.
'nuff said

billyvsox
07-27-2005, 12:48 AM
Here's the skinny on the 'captains'.

A couple of years ago Steinbrenner slammed Jeter for partying too much. Jeter was pretty pissed off and the Yankee fans rallied to his support. A few days later, Stein..Torre..etc held a press conference to name him captain as a way to settle things down.

When the A-Rod to Boston trade two winters ago fell apart over the money issue, Texas realized they were stuck with him so they named him captain (also during a media held press conference) as an attempt to smooth things over. Two days later he was traded to the Yankees.

Varitek got the captaincy I believe as part of his contract last winter since he was going to leave Boston or else.

Sweeney (who cares) as he rots in KC, can enjoy his captaincy and continued last place finishes.

fquaye149
07-27-2005, 12:16 PM
I hate any ******* baseball player who has to wear a "C" on his jersey. Why? because he's the first one to talk to the ump? Bull****! It's because he's a ****in egomaniac and wants to feel good about it. This is really a sore subject with me. I've ranted several times about this on my stupid radio show including Saturday night when I had to watch Varitek all night with his proud "C" . What a dick!:angry:

cosigned.

Honestly - the people on the team know you're the captain. Who cares if the fans know it. It's like Sammy and his constant need for reassurance that he was in charge, even though it was quite apparent that he was no kind of team leader.

Personally, I think any catcher who has been in baseball more than 5 years would be the captain of the team. Of course, in baseball, times have changed...

GregoryEtc
07-27-2005, 12:27 PM
http://www.mediocreminds.com/03q3/misc/pcs/capn_crunch.jpg
"Who's your Cap'n?"

bigdommer
07-27-2005, 12:34 PM
Here's the skinny on the 'captains'.

A couple of years ago Steinbrenner slammed Jeter for partying too much. Jeter was pretty pissed off and the Yankee fans rallied to his support. A few days later, Stein..Torre..etc held a press conference to name him captain as a way to settle things down.

When the A-Rod to Boston trade two winters ago fell apart over the money issue, Texas realized they were stuck with him so they named him captain (also during a media held press conference) as an attempt to smooth things over. Two days later he was traded to the Yankees.

Varitek got the captaincy I believe as part of his contract last winter since he was going to leave Boston or else.

Sweeney (who cares) as he rots in KC, can enjoy his captaincy and continued last place finishes.

I agree. All 3 (4) of these captains were named to either appease the player (A-rod, Varitek, Sweeney) or smooth things over (Jeter).

I played baseball in college and I was the team captain. College is different because the players are students and aren't always with the coaches, and there needs to be someone that can communicate specific issues when players are scattered across campus.

However, in the pros, the coach should be with his entire team most of the time, and he should know what's going on. The only reason I would see a team having a captain is if the coach/manager was unapproachable or was not in touch with his players. This way, when the players have a gripe, the captain can speak to the coach, instead of players going through the media or complaining to teamates because they are scared to approach the coach. Coaches like Ozzie, Dusty Baker (sorry), Francona, Boche, Wedge, Torre, etc shouldn't need a captain because they are "players" managers. Guys like LaRussa, Pinella, Schowalter, McKeon might need one because they are old school and sometimes out of touch with their players.