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View Full Version : BBTN rumor: O Visquel to the Sox??


Whitesox4ever
07-24-2005, 06:11 PM
H Reyonlds said on BBTN that he heard the Sox are trying hard to get Omar

KnightSox
07-24-2005, 06:18 PM
I heard the same thing on the score, no details though.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 06:37 PM
That was said in passing on BBTN.

Can we go after some GOOD players, please?

Goodness

DickAllen72
07-24-2005, 06:38 PM
This would be a great move, especially if we get him for a couple of prospects, or maybe a prospect + Harris.

We get a good SS who hits and runs well, plus Uribe moves to the "super-sub" role in which he excelled last season. Plus, Omar is a "smart-ball" player and would add some leadership down the stretch.

If SF puts him on the block, this is a no-brainer for the Sox.

MarySwiss
07-24-2005, 06:39 PM
Harold Reynolds? Oh, please!

1917
07-24-2005, 06:39 PM
I Wonder what they will want for him?

Palehose13
07-24-2005, 06:42 PM
We won't get him for the same reason he didn't sign here...he wouldn't be able to wear his number. :cool:

103 screwball
07-24-2005, 06:44 PM
Reynolds probably read it here. I think it would be a good move depending on what the Sox gave up. I'd love to see Vizquel bat 2nd and let Iguchi move down to #3 in the order and drive the ball. Iguchi comes to America and faces most if not all of the pitchers for the first time and he has to take some good pitches for SPod. I think he can be better. I know he has been very good as a number 2 hitter. Vizquel would be too.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 06:46 PM
This would be a great move, especially if we get him for a couple of prospects, or maybe a prospect + Harris.

We get a good SS who hits and runs well, plus Uribe moves to the "super-sub" role in which he excelled last season. Plus, Omar is a "smart-ball" player and would add some leadership down the stretch.

If SF puts him on the block, this is a no-brainer for the Sox.

We can get all sorts of players "for a couple of prospects" - if they're good ones. Are you sure he moves well at his age (he's been caught 9 times out of 23 steal attempts)? Old, bad contract, he'll cost a high price in talent, I'll pass.
We should be able to improve on Harris for a low price.

Jjav829
07-24-2005, 06:50 PM
That was said in passing on BBTN.

Can we go after some GOOD players, please?

Goodness

Do you just hate any player we are rumored to get? He's the best shortstop available. What do you want, Derek Jeter? We're obviously not getting him. You want an upgrade at short? This is as good as it gets. Vizquel has been hitting near .300 and maintaining a solid .360 OBP, all while playing a good shortstop and even stealing a base here and there. Vizquel would be a clear upgrade over Uribe for this year.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 06:59 PM
We won't get him for the same reason he didn't sign here...he wouldn't be able to wear his number. :cool:
That is the reason I am also weary of getting Burnett, Lowell, or Wagner.
34 is taken. Would Burnett wear 33? taken. 35? taken. Maybe he will be able to turn his number around, it looks like 43 will be available.
Lowell couldn't wear 19 because it's retired. Close numbers taken: 18, 17, 16 Lyons) 15, 14, 13, 20, 22, 23, 24
Wagner wouldn't be able to wrestle 13 from Ozzie. Would he turn it around and become 31? All numbers close to 13 are taken, so he would have to pick something new.



Man, I am bored.:cool: I will be satisfied a week from now. Until then, let the speculation continue.

mr_genius
07-24-2005, 07:19 PM
sure, lets get Alomar back here too

or maybe trade our top prospects for Lofton

ding ding

Madvora
07-24-2005, 07:53 PM
You want an upgrade at short? This is as good as it gets. Vizquel has been hitting near .300 and maintaining a solid .360 OBP, all while playing a good shortstop and even stealing a base here and there. Vizquel would be a clear upgrade over Uribe for this year.
Right you are, any one who can't see that is crazy. I really believe that we NEED this guy and I want him bad. Go to it KW!

soltrain21
07-24-2005, 07:57 PM
sure, lets get Alomar back here too

or maybe trade our top prospects for Lofton

ding ding


Um....Omar isn't washed up. He is having ANOTHER good year. Solid as hell.

Brian26
07-24-2005, 09:38 PM
I'm not totally opposed to getting Vizquel, but I don't see it honestly as a huge upgrade at shortstop. Defensively, Uribe has been outstanding. Offensively, obviously Uribe's weakness is drawing walks and laying off crap pitches. But if Vizquel comes over, everyone seems to be inserting him into the #2 spot in the order. I hate that. Iguchi has been outstanding in the 2-slot all year, being completely unselfish by taking tons of pitches for Pods, while still doing a hell of a job of producing when needed. I don't want to screw with Iguchi's mindset at the plate if we get Vizquel. So, the only caveat I have is to have Vizquel penciled in down at #9 if we pick him up. I hate losing the pop in Uribe's bat though...

I don't know. Someone help me out on this. This just doesn't seem like a big enough upgrade to justify the move.

Chisox003
07-24-2005, 09:43 PM
I'm not totally opposed to getting Vizquel, but I don't see it honestly as a huge upgrade at shortstop. Defensively, Uribe has been outstanding. Offensively, obviously Uribe's weakness is drawing walks and laying off crap pitches. But if Vizquel comes over, everyone seems to be inserting him into the #2 spot in the order. I hate that. Iguchi has been outstanding in the 2-slot all year, being completely unselfish by taking tons of pitches for Pods, while still doing a hell of a job of producing when needed. I don't want to screw with Iguchi's mindset at the plate if we get Vizquel. So, the only caveat I have is to have Vizquel penciled in down at #9 if we pick him up. I hate losing the pop in Uribe's bat though...

I don't know. Someone help me out on this. This just doesn't seem like a big enough upgrade to justify the move.

You and I see things much different here....

Vizquel in the 2 hole, where hes been his ENTIRE career (Hitting behind Lofton in Cleveland), would allow Gooch to move to 7th or 8th, thus breaking up the bottom of the lineup and taking some pressure off of him...

Tadahito is constantly having to get Pods over, which he has done great...Absolutely....Hes been stellar

But honestly, I think his swing is hurting from it, and inserting Vizquel, a career #2 hitter, would be great

I'd love to see Vizquel come here, and Id guarantee a spike in Iguchi's numbers if he gets dropped in the order

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 09:48 PM
What I see when I hear the name Vizquel is a guy under contract through 2007 when he will be a 41-year-old shortstop. How many of those have been successful, except perhaps during WWII when the leagues were populated by 4-F players?

mdep524
07-24-2005, 09:51 PM
You and I see things much different here....

Vizquel in the 2 hole, where hes been his ENTIRE career (Hitting behind Lofton in Cleveland), would allow Gooch to move to 7th or 8th, thus breaking up the bottom of the lineup and taking some pressure off of him...

Tadahito is constantly having to get Pods over, which he has done great...Absolutely....Hes been stellar

But honestly, I think his swing is hurting from it, and inserting Vizquel, a career #2 hitter, would be great

I'd love to see Vizquel come here, and Id guarantee a spike in Iguchi's numbers if he gets dropped in the order I'm becoming more and more in favor of this move. At first I was worried about taking Uribe's excellent glove out of our infield, but Vizquel isn't too bad himself. And the difference Vizquel's bat and Uribe's bat is much bigger than the difference between their gloves. Basically, Vizquel's offense >>>>> Uribe's offense; Uribe's defense > Vizquel's defense.

Iguchi would be solid in the number 7/8 spot, but he could even bat 3rd as he did with great results in Japan. Imagine:

Podsednik
Vizquel
Iguchi
Thomas
Konerko
Dye
Rowand
Pierzynski
Crede

I could see Iguchi excelling in either role, and my gut feeling is Vizquel would be a more reliable playoff performer than Uribe, who would make an excellent super sub at 3B, SS and 2B. (Forget Mike Lowell.)

ilsox7
07-24-2005, 09:52 PM
What I see when I hear the name Vizquel is a guy under contract through 2007 when he will be a 41-year-old shortstop. How many of those have been successful, except perhaps during WWII when the leagues were populated by 4-F players?

Exactly. If we get him, it is definitely KW saying, "Right now, all I care about is this year and we'll deal with the consequences later." Honestly, I could live with that.

ChiSoxPatF
07-24-2005, 09:56 PM
The Sox haven't been happy with Uribe's efforts this season either. Relegate him to super-sub status and lets get another great Venezuelan shortstop.

DickAllen72
07-24-2005, 09:58 PM
Omar would be the only .300 hitter in the Sox lineup. :gulp:

ChiSoxlukes
07-24-2005, 10:01 PM
Vizquel, Burnett, and Wagner/Mesa=World Series. Nuff said. Of course this is the dream situation that will not happen. Hopefully 2 out of 3??

mdep524
07-24-2005, 10:10 PM
Vizquel, Burnett, and Wagner/Mesa=World Series. Nuff said. Of course this is the dream situation that will not happen. Hopefully 2 out of 3?? If we're going to dip into the San Francisco well to get Vizquel, why not save on shipping and get Jason Schmidt as well, in place of AJ Burnett?

SF says they're not dealing Schmidt, but I wonder how much of that is posturing. That would be my dream deal: Contreras, McCarthy and a minor leaguer or two for Schmidt and Vizquel.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 10:14 PM
I'd be just fine with Vizquel batting second.

If the Sox know Frank's going to be out for a while (or even if he comes back in two weeks), it might not be a bad idea to get a little unconventional and move Iguchi to the #3 spot, and move everyone else down in the order accordingly. That would get the mashers in the middle lots of at bats with speedy guys on base.

Alternatively, Vizquel could pair with Rowand at the bottom of the order to form another high-OBP 1-2 punch so that Crede, who has good power, could bat more often with guys on base. That way, almost every inning the Sox would have good OBP speedsters able to get things rolling.

Or, if they really wanted to be radical, they could put all their decent OBP guys (Pods, Vizquel, Iguchi, Rowand) together at the bottom and the top of the order (8-9-1-2). Vizquel would give them plenty of options and RBI opportunities.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 10:18 PM
Um....Omar isn't washed up. He is having ANOTHER good year. Solid as hell.

Has anyone actually seen Omar play shortstop this year? Can you attest to his range? I haven't, so I'm asking. Not making errors is only half the story.
Uribe has played a damn good SS this year and a downgrade defensively is not what we need.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 10:25 PM
Vizquel, Burnett, and Wagner/Mesa=World Series. Nuff said. Of course this is the dream situation that will not happen. Hopefully 2 out of 3??

Mesa?? Mesa couldn't beat out Vizcaino in our bullpen.

We are guaranteed nothing in the playoffs with these assorted deals.The only player close to an impact player that is discussed is Wagner (and even he isn't that, although he's close). Does it improve our chances? Sure. But it still takes some good fortune to win the WS, unless you have a super-team.

Therefore, the consequences in future years DO matter, because putting all eggs in the 2005 basket and saying to hell with next year, seriously diminishes the chances of the Sox winning a WS in this era of the Sox, imo.

ilsox7
07-24-2005, 10:28 PM
Mesa?? Mesa couldn't beat out Vizcaino in our bullpen.

We are guaranteed nothing in the playoffs with these assorted deals. Does it improve our chances? Sure. But it still takes some good fortune to win the WS, unless you have a super-team.

Therefore, the consequences in future years DO matter, because putting all eggs in the 2005 basket and saying to hell with next year, seriously diminishes the chances of the Sox winning a WS in this era of the Sox, imo.

Except there isn't much KW could do to say "the hell with next year." The pitching staff as we know it are all signed thru next year. At an absolute minimum, the top 3 are back. Pods, Aaron, Crede, JD, and AJ are all signed thru next year. The core of this team will be back no matter what.

Would there be future consequences with some of these moves? Sure. But it's not like the team will be drastically changed given the moves being talked about.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 10:53 PM
If the Sox know Frank's going to be out for a while (or even if he comes back in two weeks), it might not be a bad idea to get a little unconventional and move Iguchi to the #3 spot, and move everyone else down in the order accordingly. That would get the mashers in the middle lots of at bats with speedy guys on base.
That's not all that unconventional. In 1995, the Indians' 3 hitter was...
Carlos Baerga.

The order was: Lofton, Vizquel, Baerga, Bell, Murray, Thome, Ramirez...
I thought at the beginning of the year that Rowand should bat 3. That would move Frank to 4, Konerko 5, Dye 6, AJ 7 and so on.
Not that bad of an idea.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 11:04 PM
That's not all that unconventional. In 1995, the Indians' 3 hitter was...
Carlos Baerga.

The order was: Lofton, Vizquel, Baerga, Bell, Murray, Thome, Ramirez...
I thought at the beginning of the year that Rowand should bat 3. That would move Frank to 4, Konerko 5, Dye 6, AJ 7 and so on.
Not that bad of an idea.

This might be even more radical yet even more dangerous for opposing managers:

Pods-Gooch-Vizquel-Rowand-Frank-Dye-Konerko-AJ-Crede/Lowell :o:

Great OBP and speed arranged L/S/L/R at the top, followed by the two Sox hitters with SLG over .500, followed by another 40 HR guy, followed by a lefty with decent clutch power, followed by a righty (Crede or Lowell) with good clutch power.

:gulp::smokin::wired:

Jjav829
07-24-2005, 11:09 PM
I'm not totally opposed to getting Vizquel, but I don't see it honestly as a huge upgrade at shortstop. Defensively, Uribe has been outstanding. Offensively, obviously Uribe's weakness is drawing walks and laying off crap pitches. But if Vizquel comes over, everyone seems to be inserting him into the #2 spot in the order. I hate that. Iguchi has been outstanding in the 2-slot all year, being completely unselfish by taking tons of pitches for Pods, while still doing a hell of a job of producing when needed. I don't want to screw with Iguchi's mindset at the plate if we get Vizquel. So, the only caveat I have is to have Vizquel penciled in down at #9 if we pick him up. I hate losing the pop in Uribe's bat though...

I don't know. Someone help me out on this. This just doesn't seem like a big enough upgrade to justify the move.

Here's your help. Your worried about losing Uribe's pop? Uribe has 8 HRs and 12 doubles. Vizquel has 2 HRs and 20 doubles. Despite Uribe's better power, he has only a .371 SLG% compared to Vizquel's .388 SLG%.

And I don't necessarily think Vizquel has to bat second. He would turn the lineup over nicely batting #9. The power dropoff from Uribe to Vizquel would be made up for by adding Vizquel's .90 extra in OBP.

Also, I certainly don't think it would hurt to add a little more post-season experience to the roster.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 11:15 PM
And I don't necessarily think Vizquel has to bat second. He would turn the lineup over nicely batting #9. The power dropoff from Uribe to Vizquel would be made up for by adding Vizquel's .90 extra in OBP.

Also, I certainly don't think it would hurt to add a little more post-season experience to the roster.

Agreed.

What about batting Vizquel eighth and Rowand ninth? That gives the Sox a S/R/L/R dynamo with very nice speed at 8/9/1/2 to keep the lineup turning.

We saw how valuable the 1-2 punch of Pods and Iguchi was today against Boston, scoring four of the Sox six runs. Imagine doubling the threat by pairing that combo in the lineup with another similar combo.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 11:22 PM
Except there isn't much KW could do to say "the hell with next year." The pitching staff as we know it are all signed thru next year. At an absolute minimum, the top 3 are back. Pods, Aaron, Crede, JD, and AJ are all signed thru next year. The core of this team will be back no matter what.

Would there be future consequences with some of these moves? Sure. But it's not like the team will be drastically changed given the moves being talked about.

There's a lot of bad that can happen next year (and the next since most of these deals we'd be stuck with are for 2 years) when you tie up 5-20 million in stiffs who can't play. First, Konerko isn't signed for next year; so what do we do, throw Gload out there, reduce our HR total by 25% and pretend there's no problem? Bye Bye Frank. Bye bye Garland either this year or next when his contract expires. Politte, Marte, those guys - what's their contractual status? Same offensively ineffective bottom of the order? Rowand probably has a contract year soon too - he'd be perfect trade bait; oops, we can't afford to risk losing his power.

We need a better infielder than Harris - surely we can find one of those pretty easily that isn't old with a terrible contract. WE could use another bench bat for Frank. You can find one of those too that won't kill us - that's something good to rent for a low price.

Mohoney
07-25-2005, 02:12 AM
I'm not totally opposed to getting Vizquel, but I don't see it honestly as a huge upgrade at shortstop.

The thing is, though, that you're actually upgrading in two areas. The upgrade that Vizquel represents over Uribe is coupled with the upgrade that Uribe represents over Willie Harris.

Uribe can back up competently at 2B, SS, and 3B, and that can be huge for this team. All Willie can do is play 2B, and we can only really afford one reserve that can only play one position. Since Gload actually hits, he wins the roster spot and backs up at 1B. Then, when Frank comes back, you decide whether Ozuna or Timo goes. I would keep Ozuna on this team, but that's me.

Assuming that (A) Vizquel is the only position player that we add, (B) We don't give up any players currently on the 25 man roster in this trade, and (C) Willie is the guy that goes to make room for Vizquel, your bench would look something like this:

Widger C
Gload 1B
Ozuna 2B, SS, 3B
Uribe 2B, SS, 3B
Everett OF, DH

Doesn't that look significantly better than our current bench?

Widger C
Gload 1B
Ozuna 2B, SS, 3B
Harris 2B
Perez OF

Mohoney
07-25-2005, 02:16 AM
There's a lot of bad that can happen next year (and the next since most of these deals we'd be stuck with are for 2 years) when you tie up 5-20 million in stiffs who can't play. First, Konerko isn't signed for next year; so what do we do, throw Gload out there, reduce our HR total by 25% and pretend there's no problem? Bye Bye Frank. Bye bye Garland either this year or next when his contract expires. Politte, Marte, those guys - what's their contractual status? Same offensively ineffective bottom of the order? Rowand probably has a contract year soon too - he'd be perfect trade bait; oops, we can't afford to risk losing his power.

We need a better infielder than Harris - surely we can find one of those pretty easily that isn't old with a terrible contract. WE could use another bench bat for Frank. You can find one of those too that won't kill us - that's something good to rent for a low price.

I guess the only thing I can think of to counter this argument is that if we can at least win one round in the playoffs, that added revenue will offset some of those salary concerns.

Mohoney
07-25-2005, 03:02 AM
If we're going to dip into the San Francisco well to get Vizquel, why not save on shipping and get Jason Schmidt as well, in place of AJ Burnett?

SF says they're not dealing Schmidt, but I wonder how much of that is posturing. That would be my dream deal: Contreras, McCarthy and a minor leaguer or two for Schmidt and Vizquel.

There might be a possibility of getting something like that done, if we can provide financial relief to the Giants. Taking Vizquel's contract off their hands is a start, but we would probably either have to take on another player in a salary dump or give them cash for Contreras' contract.

Does San Francisco have anybody in a walk year this year that's highly paid? If so, maybe we can get a 3rd team in on this. We give up Contreras, McCarthy, and a prospect. San Francisco gives up Schmidt, Vizquel, and somebody like Ray Durham. A 3rd team that wants Durham gives up two prospecs, which go to San Francisco.

We get:
Schmidt, Vizquel

San Francisco gets:
Contreras+cash, McCarthy, 3 other prospects

The 3rd team gets:
Durham+cash

With the sizable amount of payroll shed and money saved in this lost year, San Francisco can do some serious free agent shopping next year for a 2B, SS, and SP. They land 2 pitchers that will be in their rotation in 2006, and they end up with an influx of young talent to give their farm system a boost.

The 3rd team upgrades at 2B at a discounted price for their stretch run, and the discount on this trade could be enough to make other moves still feasible.

We upgrade our pitching staff, batting order, and bench for our stretch run.

Madvora
07-25-2005, 07:28 AM
If we're going to dip into the San Francisco well to get Vizquel, why not save on shipping and get Jason Schmidt as well, in place of AJ Burnett?

SF says they're not dealing Schmidt, but I wonder how much of that is posturing. That would be my dream deal: Contreras, McCarthy and a minor leaguer or two for Schmidt and Vizquel.
Why not Burnett? If we could land him and turn him + whoever into Schmidt and Vizquel, I'd do it in a second. Maybe KW has an idea of using Burnett as his own bargaining chip? Everybody wants this guy, it could be...

GoGoSoxReborn
07-25-2005, 11:26 AM
We need a better infielder than Harris - surely we can find one of those pretty easily that isn't old with a terrible contract. WE could use another bench bat for Frank. You can find one of those too that won't kill us - that's something good to rent for a low price.


According to you Vizquel is no good, Lowell is no good, Burnett is no good. According to most of your replies to trade rumor threads they are all downgrades, and Kenny should go after great players who could be had for pennies. Just out of curiosity who are these players? If this were true don't you think Kenny would be aware of this?

I'm sure the Yankees will be shipping us A-Rod and Rivera for Shingo and Borchard.

Get Real :rolleyes:

Flight #24
07-25-2005, 11:37 AM
I'm sure the Yankees will be shipping us A-Rod and Rivera for Shingo and Borchard.

Get Real :rolleyes:

Are you nuts? Those contracts will prevent us from resigning Paulie!

Flight #24
07-25-2005, 11:47 AM
There's a lot of bad that can happen next year (and the next since most of these deals we'd be stuck with are for 2 years) when you tie up 5-20 million in stiffs who can't play. First, Konerko isn't signed for next year; so what do we do, throw Gload out there, reduce our HR total by 25% and pretend there's no problem? Bye Bye Frank. Bye bye Garland either this year or next when his contract expires. Politte, Marte, those guys - what's their contractual status? Same offensively ineffective bottom of the order? Rowand probably has a contract year soon too - he'd be perfect trade bait; oops, we can't afford to risk losing his power.



HR are overrated. Without making it a trade suggestion, a guy like Overbay, who hits for a higher average and with more doubles can be as valuable or more than a guy like Konerko who hits for a poor average and hits HRs and not much else. Konerko is eminently replaceable at a lower cost. Yes, you'll lose HRs, but you won't lose much in overall run production.

For the record, the Sox have approx 9mil in raises to players under contract. They also have 2 guys who are arb eligible and will command decent bumps in AJ & Garland. They also have 4 FAs making a combined $17mil (Paulie, Carl, Timo, Shingo). Seems to me that you should be able to keep everyone (including Frank) by using the money saved from the 4 FAs. The only piece you're then looking to replace is Paulie. Thus whatever payroll bump you get can be dedicated to the guys you traded for in '05 with long-term deals. If one of those guys in a pitcher, you can also deal Contreras after this season and reuse his $6mil salary.

As for replacing Paulie, you can put Gload at 1B, lose some HRs, but gain a higher avg and probably not lose a ton in OPS. You can put Dye at 1B (if he gets a full offseason to practice at it), and put Anderson in the OF. Or if you traded for Lowell, you can play him at 1B if he turns it around.

Bottom line: because Paulie is replaceable and makes so much $$$, you can afford to take on a longer-term deal in trade, expecially if it nets you a significant piece to help make a WS.

Tragg
07-25-2005, 01:22 PM
HR are overrated. Without making it a trade suggestion, a guy like Overbay, who hits for a higher average and with more doubles can be as valuable or more than a guy like Konerko who hits for a poor average and hits HRs and not much else. Konerko is eminently replaceable at a lower cost. Yes, you'll lose HRs, but you won't lose much in overall run production.

For the record, the Sox have approx 9mil in raises to players under contract. They also have 2 guys who are arb eligible and will command decent bumps in AJ & Garland. They also have 4 FAs making a combined $17mil (Paulie, Carl, Timo, Shingo). Seems to me that you should be able to keep everyone (including Frank) by using the money saved from the 4 FAs. The only piece you're then looking to replace is Paulie. Thus whatever payroll bump you get can be dedicated to the guys you traded for in '05 with long-term deals. If one of those guys in a pitcher, you can also deal Contreras after this season and reuse his $6mil salary.

As for replacing Paulie, you can put Gload at 1B, lose some HRs, but gain a higher avg and probably not lose a ton in OPS. You can put Dye at 1B (if he gets a full offseason to practice at it), and put Anderson in the OF. Or if you traded for Lowell, you can play him at 1B if he turns it around.

Bottom line: because Paulie is replaceable and makes so much $$$, you can afford to take on a longer-term deal in trade, expecially if it nets you a significant piece to help make a WS.
First HRs may be overrated, but they are important - the homers we get are particularly important because we have players with bad OBPs hitting them - imagine having a bottom of the lineup those OBPs and with no power. I agree with most of the rest of what you say, particularly the Konerko part, but you missed the context: I said if we saddle ourselves with $8 mill for Lowell, $5 for Vizquel (or whatever it is), $10 mill on Burnett (extension - about what it will take to ink him without testing the FA market), then we have quickly used the premium earned for rolling Konerko off the payroll, while downgrading our offense, with no money left for the bumps you describe above.
It would be nice to use at least some of that $8 mill to improve our offense in other areas. And if Brian Anderson can hit and if we don't use him in a trade, then we could also use Rowand as excellent trade bait.

MIgrenade
07-25-2005, 01:23 PM
Podsednik
Vizquel
Iguchi
Thomas
Konerko
Dye
Rowand
Pierzynski
Crede

I could see Iguchi excelling in either role, and my gut feeling is Vizquel would be a more reliable playoff performer than Uribe, who would make an excellent super sub at 3B, SS and 2B. (Forget Mike Lowell.)

The purpose of getting Visquel, I think, would be to turn the lineup over better so I think either he or Iguchi would be moved to the nine spot. I like the idea of Iguchi being third because I know he has power potential but he can do that ninth too and use his speed.
I was against this trade when I first saw it a few weeks ago, but I have been swayed. Uribe is not a playoff short stop offensively. He makes the plays but he doesn't turn the lineup over like he should.

Tragg
07-25-2005, 01:28 PM
According to you Vizquel is no good, Lowell is no good, Burnett is no good. According to most of your replies to trade rumor threads they are all downgrades, and Kenny should go after great players who could be had for pennies. Just out of curiosity who are these players? If this were true don't you think Kenny would be aware of this?

I'm sure the Yankees will be shipping us A-Rod and Rivera for Shingo and Borchard.

Get Real :rolleyes:

And according to most of you, Garland sucks (until this year), Konerko sucks, Crede sucks, the Marlins players are great (just need new scenery), the Giants are stupendous. Shingo is worth zero, but this journeyman middle reliever for the BlueJays is worth at least a top prospect or two. Put Shingo in another uniform and it's a case of "a bad year for a player who needs a change of scenery".
And least I stick up for Sox players.
And my general preference not to take on most of the players from teams like the Marlins and Giants as others have suggested is not in an absolute sense: it is in the context of the money they earn and what players we have to give up for them.
People forget the Lee deal: We took way the short end of the stick in terms of value (although we got a leadoff hitter that we really needed), in return for relieving ourselves of a big contract - we'd have gotten extra players, if there money were equal. Yet, when the shoe's on the other foot, it's amazing how so many expect us to pay equal value on all deals when WE'RE taking on the big bloated contracts. Vizquel should come at a cheap price because of his ridiculous contract.

Hangar18
07-25-2005, 01:43 PM
That is the reason I am also weary of getting Burnett, Lowell, or Wagner.
34 is taken. Would Burnett wear 33? taken. 35? taken. Maybe he will be able to turn his number around, it looks like 43 will be available.
Lowell couldn't wear 19 because it's retired. Close numbers taken: 18, 17, 16 Lyons) 15, 14, 13, 20, 22, 23, 24
Wagner wouldn't be able to wrestle 13 from Ozzie. Would he turn it around and become 31? All numbers close to 13 are taken, so he would have to pick something new..

I thought about this last nite. AJ Burnett would look GREAT in # 37

mdep524
07-25-2005, 01:44 PM
The purpose of getting Visquel, I think, would be to turn the lineup over better so I think either he or Iguchi would be moved to the nine spot. I like the idea of Iguchi being third because I know he has power potential but he can do that ninth too and use his speed.
I was against this trade when I first saw it a few weeks ago, but I have been swayed. Uribe is not a playoff short stop offensively. He makes the plays but he doesn't turn the lineup over like he should. Yup. :smile: That's the great thing about this potential trade- look how versatile our line up would become!Iguchi could bat 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th or 9th. Vizquel could excel both batting 2nd or 9th.

GoGoSoxReborn
07-25-2005, 01:51 PM
And my general preference not to take on most of the players from teams like the Marlins and Giants as others have suggested is not in an absolute sense: it is in the context of the money they earn and what players we have to give up for them.

We pretty much had Vizquel this offseason until the Giants came over the top and gave him the third year. He was on our radar then and if he is still availible he would be a nice addition to the team. If he was added, Uribe would become a solid utility infielder who could give Crede, Iguchi, and Vizquel a few breathers and his addition would finally end the willie harris era.

Plus I don't give a damn if getting a player for this year causes fiscal problems next year. I've been worried about "next year" for my entire life. We are 31 games over .500 lets go for it all this year. If we fall short at least I can hang my hat on the fact that we went for it all and gave it our best effort. I would renew my season tickets because management will have proven that they do in fact care about winning, something people have been extremely critical of around here.

Tragg
07-25-2005, 01:52 PM
In that scenario, keep Iguchi batting second; he has a lot more power than Vizquel and is a better base stealer.

GoGoSoxReborn
07-25-2005, 09:47 PM
Vizquel 2-4 with 3 stolen bases so far tonight against the Scrubbies.

Chisox003
07-25-2005, 09:54 PM
In that scenario, keep Iguchi batting second; he has a lot more power than Vizquel is a better base stealer.

Dont think so...

Its been proven time and again this season...We dont need a guy with power out of the 2 hole, we need a guy that will get Pods over/ get him in...

While Gooch has done a great job, I think his swing is suffering from it....Put Vizquel, a .300 hitter, career #2 guy whos used to hitting in those situations....Much better

Two .300 hitters leading off the game for us, and put Gooch in the 9 hole where he'll be able to relax, not worry about getting guys over constantly, and hit for power while turning the lineup over....

Pods, Vizquel, Everett/Thomas, Konerko, Dye, Rowand, Pierzynski, Crede, Iguchi

Wow :gulp:

GoGoSoxReborn
07-25-2005, 10:10 PM
Pods, Vizquel, Everett/Thomas, Konerko, Dye, Rowand, Pierzynski, Crede, Iguchi

Wow :gulp:


That is scary good! Seriously that lineup could put up some serious runs. Couldn't you just see Pods single, steal/Vizquel walk, double steal 2nd and 3rd no outs. It almost seems automatic.

Then to turn it over gooch, pods, vizquel. That is exactly the type of baseball we've wanted to play this year, and now that i look at it, this is a huge upgrade. The best thing about it when someone needs a day off, or we need a pinch batter/runner we will have Ozuna and Uribe off the bench, which is much better than Ozuna and Willie.

Domeshot17
07-25-2005, 10:15 PM
Just a thought here, I think we all agree if Tadahito was not a team player and hit for himself, he could hit 280-300 and have 10-15 homers by now. So no matter where we put him he is perfect

put him in the heart of the order and he is going to rack up RBIS

put him 6-7 and hes going to drive in runs and get on for Crede/AJ

Put him 9 and he will do something our 230 hitting 9 hitter hasnt done much this year.... TURN THE LINE UP OVER.

ShoelessJoeS
07-25-2005, 10:57 PM
I know OV is a great player, and I know that SF was a much better choice, but does anyone else feel betrayed by this guy when he wouldnt sign with us in the off-season?

my how the tables have turned......:cool:

Jjav829
07-25-2005, 11:00 PM
I know OV is a great player, and I know that SF was a much better choice, but does anyone else feel betrayed by this guy when he wouldnt sign with us in the off-season?

my how the tables have turned......:cool:

Not at all. If he can help us win in the playoffs, which I think he can, then I don't care what team he chose over us.

Tragg
07-25-2005, 11:45 PM
Dont think so...

Its been proven time and again this season...We dont need a guy with power out of the 2 hole, we need a guy that will get Pods over/ get him in...



I don't agree at all. YOu don't waste a 2 hole hitter simply to "get him over" with the meat of the order coming up, except in special circumstances like late innings in a tie game. Further, Pods gets himself over a lot of the time. You're more likely to "get him over" in the bottom of the order, when the hitters are worse you aren't throwing away much by throwing away an out.

We didn't sign Vizquel because SF offered a better contract (more than he deserved, really). Players follow the money and at his age, years are important.
Had we signed Vizquel, we likely WOULDN'T have Iguchi (and perhaps no AJ as well). We ended up better off with Uribe at SS and Iguchi at 2nd, versus Vizquel at SS and Uribe at 2nd. Iguchi is younger, a better basestealer and has more power than Vizquel.

Chisox003
07-26-2005, 01:09 AM
I don't agree at all. YOu don't waste a 2 hole hitter simply to "get him over" with the meat of the order coming up, except in special circumstances like late innings in a tie game. Further, Pods gets himself over a lot of the time. You're more likely to "get him over" in the bottom of the order, when the hitters are worse you aren't throwing away much by throwing away an out.

We didn't sign Vizquel because SF offered a better contract (more than he deserved, really). Players follow the money and at his age, years are important.
Had we signed Vizquel, we likely WOULDN'T have Iguchi (and perhaps no AJ as well). We ended up better off with Uribe at SS and Iguchi at 2nd, versus Vizquel at SS and Uribe at 2nd. Iguchi is younger, a better basestealer and has more power than Vizquel.

Ok, but we arent talkin about replacing Iguchi with Vizquel....Why would you even mentioned what happened in the offseason when that has no effect on the present? At this point, we can have all 3 guys

We're talking about a guy who has hit 2nd his entire career, where Tadahito has been an RBI/HR guy in Japan

A situation we've seen a TON of times this year: Pods gets on, steals second, and Gooch grounds out/flies out to the right side, thus gettin Podsednik to third

With Vizquel, same scenario, only he gets basehits more often than not in that situation (See: his .300 average)

Dont get me wrong, Gooch has been amazing in the 2 hole, but I dont think there's anyway to argue that Vizquel wouldnt make this team better....

Its a no brainer

ShoelessJoeS
07-26-2005, 01:12 AM
Not at all. If he can help us win in the playoffs, which I think he can, then I don't care what team he chose over us.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't want him on our team J, believe me, I know that Omar is an upgrade...all I'm trying to imply is that I find it humerous that he chose the Giants over us thinking they had a better shot at succeeding this year, thus the "my how the tables have turned"

:tongue:

GoGoSoxReborn
07-26-2005, 10:04 AM
I'm not saying that I wouldn't want him on our team J, believe me, I know that Omar is an upgrade...all I'm trying to imply is that I find it humerous that he chose the Giants over us thinking they had a better shot at succeeding this year, thus the "my how the tables have turned"

:tongue:


No he chose the Giants over us because they offered him a three year contract while the White Sox would only offer two.

ShoelessJoeS
07-26-2005, 01:47 PM
No he chose the Giants over us because they offered him a three year contract while the White Sox would only offer two.
and at this point in his career im sure winning had nothing to do with it either, right? :rolleyes:

Tragg
07-26-2005, 02:54 PM
Ok, but we arent talkin about replacing Iguchi with Vizquel....Why would you even mentioned what happened in the offseason when that has no effect on the present? At this point, we can have all 3 guys

We're talking about a guy who has hit 2nd his entire career, where Tadahito has been an RBI/HR guy in Japan

A situation we've seen a TON of times this year: Pods gets on, steals second, and Gooch grounds out/flies out to the right side, thus gettin Podsednik to third

With Vizquel, same scenario, only he gets basehits more often than not in that situation (See: his .300 average)

Dont get me wrong, Gooch has been amazing in the 2 hole, but I dont think there's anyway to argue that Vizquel wouldnt make this team better....

Its a no brainer

Practically every player suggested would make the team better in some respect - but most suggestions only marginally so because it doesn't address a real weakness. I'd like a report on Vizquel's RANGE - I know he makes few errors, but what balls does he get to? I'm leery because his base-stealing is terrible this year and it makes me wonder about his wheels. I think D happens to be of utmost importance to this edition of the Sox. And then bad contracts like he has scare me off.

What I think we need is a hitter who we know can hit against post-season level pitching. I know Konerko and Rowand can hit Detroit pitching - can they hit Colon, Schilling, Harding and Carpenter in the playoffs? 5 years ago, our pitchers were up to the challenge, but our hitters weren't.

And, indeed the Astros rented an impact hitter last year for precisely the same price as we're willing (per the reports) to pay to rent AJ Burnett, who plays a position of strength. So it's doable.

GoGoSoxReborn
07-26-2005, 03:45 PM
I'd like a report on Vizquel's RANGE - I know he makes few errors, but what balls does he get to? I'm leery because his base-stealing is terrible this year and it makes me wonder about his wheels. I think D happens to be of utmost importance to this edition of the Sox. And then bad contracts

Omar has 17 steals in 26 attempts this year for a 66%
Iguchi has 12 steals in 17 attempts for a 71% efficiency rating.

That's not that much better, personally I would rather take the 5 more extra bases than the 4 more outs. Also if you actually watch Omar play the field you will know he still has sick range and is still a Gold glove calibur shortstop.

His contract is not that bad either. He will make 4 million next year and the year after. That is not terrible for a .300 hitter 90 run 65 RBI 25 steal guy. The revenue from us making it to the world series as well as the additional season tickets sales generated for the 2006 season after a world series birth would pay for his contract 30 times over.

Find something else to gripe about. This move makes prefect sense for the sox.

DaleJRFan
07-26-2005, 03:51 PM
His contract is not that bad either. He will make 4 million next year and the year after. That is not terrible for a .300 hitter 90 run 65 RBI 25 steal guy.

I don't see what the big deal is with Omar's contract... Urbie makes a lot too...

Domeshot17
07-26-2005, 11:25 PM
If we got Vizquel, it would most likely be for uribe from what I am hearing, then the contracts wash. and In terms of everyone wondering about his glove, does no one remember him from the indians, because if you dont, he was the SS that robbed us of hits for many many years. In fact, for the longest time him and our Anual July addition Robby Alomar made up the best defensive middle IF in the game. I remember when I was younger hearing him be compared defensively to Ozzie Smith. He is a Grinder by every definition.

Jjav829
07-26-2005, 11:27 PM
Aww screw it. We don't need Vizquel. Maddux K'ed him twice tonight, including his 3000th career strikeout. :tongue:

balke
07-26-2005, 11:39 PM
Go ask A-rod, Jeter, Uribe, Ozzie, any SS who the best shortstop in MLB is. They'll tell you its Vizquel.

That's discounting the bat of course.

Letmehearya
07-26-2005, 11:54 PM
And if it hasn't been mentioned the Sox are high on a couple of SS prospects in the minors [Gonzalez and Valido] one of whom should be ready in 3 years or so.

Tragg
07-27-2005, 12:04 AM
Omar has 17 steals in 26 attempts this year for a 66%
Iguchi has 12 steals in 17 attempts for a 71% efficiency rating.

Find something else to gripe about. This move makes prefect sense for the sox.
i.e. you neither know nor care what his range is.

I care

I wouldn't trade an extra hit every 5 days (which is about what Vizquel would add, and that's without applying the discount for the extra at bats against the particularly poor national league west pitching) for a lesser range. You can call it griping - I call it common sense. There is a serious case of "the player is always greener on the other team" on this board, particularly when the other team is a lousy national league team. To you, not realizing the superiority of the Marlins and Giants players is griping - to me, it's common sense.


The relevance of Vizquel's steals is not in comparison to other players - it's in comparison to himself. His steal efficiency is declining. Just a minor piece of evidence about his wheels. And yes, I'm sure his range is better than the range of Iguchi, who plays 2nd base, not shortstop.

So I ask again - anyone have an idea of Vizquel's range these days?

balke
07-27-2005, 12:19 AM
i.e. you have no idea what his range is, but don't care. As long as they hit .300 against the weakest competition in the national league, what more do you need from a SS.

I care. Call it griping if you want. I call it common sense to wonder what the range of a 40 year old shortstop is. I call it common sense to hesitate before loading this team up with players from lousy national league teams.

The relevance of Vizquel's steals is not in comparison to other players - it's in comparison to himself. His steal efficiency is declining. And yes, I'm sure his range is better than the range of Iguchi, who plays 2nd base, not shortstop.

Once again - anyone have an idea what his range is?



Hey, I'm all about Uribe being a great player but let's not discount Omar Vizquel's worth. This guy is hitting .300 with 31 BB's and 31 K's. That's a sign of great hitting when you have as many, or more walks than K's. He does have 17 stolen bases, and he has 20 doubles.

If you wanna talk range and all that, he was hands down the best shortstop of our Era. And as of right now, he has 3 Errors, 51 DP 262 Assists. That's with 53 Double plays for Uribe 9 (I think 11 now) errors and 232 assists.

Juan has 16 BB's to 47 K's, 9 Hr's, but only 12 Doubles. He's hitting .237.


Omar is a major upgrade overall. We all know Uribe is younger and plays good Defense, but Omar would be an upgrade, regardless of age. He's still out-performing Uribe all-around. That being said, I like Uribe. He was our MVP earlier this season with the defense he was playing. His bats picked up a little lately, and hopefully he continues to do well for the Sox. Let's not downplay how good Vizquel is because we like Uribe though.

Tragg
07-27-2005, 12:38 AM
Hey, I'm all about Uribe being a great player but let's not discount Omar Vizquel's worth. This guy is hitting .300 with 31 BB's and 31 K's. That's a sign of great hitting when you have as many, or more walks than K's. He does have 17 stolen bases, and he has 20 doubles.

If you wanna talk range and all that, he was hands down the best shortstop of our Era. And as of right now, he has 3 Errors, 51 DP 262 Assists. That's with 53 Double plays for Uribe 9 (I think 11 now) errors and 232 assists.

Juan has 16 BB's to 47 K's, 9 Hr's, but only 12 Doubles. He's hitting .237.


Omar is a major upgrade overall. We all know Uribe is younger and plays good Defense, but Omar would be an upgrade, regardless of age. He's still out-performing Uribe all-around. That being said, I like Uribe. He was our MVP earlier this season with the defense he was playing. His bats picked up a little lately, and hopefully he continues to do well for the Sox. Let's not downplay how good Vizquel is because we like Uribe though.

Let's put this in proper context. Sox are 30+ above .500. Giants stink; Giants pitching stinks. National league west pitching stinks. AL Central pitching is top tier, except for the Royals.

I know his offense is a lot better than Uribe's. But let's at least recognize that he gets extra at bats against some of the worst pitching in baseball. The Padres are a middle of the pack pitching team - the Rockies, Dodgers, and Diamondbacks are bottom of the barrel.

Second, Giants pitching stinks. He will inherently participate in more DPs than Uribe because the Giants put more runners on base than the Sox do.

Third, defense is important to the Sox. Range is an important ingredient of defense. No one seems to know what his range is.

Fourth -we are where we are for a reason. And one reason is that our players are GOOD. There seems to be a disrespect for the quality of our starting players and a zeal to load this team up with players from other (generally bad) teams. I can understand it if you're talking about impact players. But that's never suggested. It's a Burnett - you parse the stats and realize that he's a tad better than Contreras so now we have to go out and get him because he's the difference maker. Sorry, I don't get that.

An offensive upgrade at SS would be nice. I do think his range is important and I don't think .300 average against that competition equates to a .300 average against the competition he will face on this team. Still an offensive upgrade, but whether it's a major overall upgrade, I simply don't have the facts to offer an opinion, which is why I asked about range.

balke
07-27-2005, 01:12 AM
Let's put this in proper context. Sox are 30+ above .500. Giants stink; Giants pitching stinks. National league west pitching stinks. AL Central pitching is top tier, except for the Royals.

I know his offense is a lot better than Uribe's. But let's at least recognize that he gets extra at bats against some of the worst pitching in baseball. The Padres are a middle of the pack pitching team - the Rockies, Dodgers, and Diamondbacks are bottom of the barrel.

Second, Giants pitching stinks. He will inherently participate in more DPs than Uribe because the Giants put more runners on base than the Sox do.

Third, defense is important to the Sox. Range is an important ingredient of defense. No one seems to know what his range is.

As long as he hits .300 and catches balls hit right to him, he's a major upgrade, seems to be the motto - well, consider the competition, and consider the benefit that our D has given to our pitchers most of the season.


Wow, do you even know who Omar Vizquel is? I'm watching him right now, he's got great range. He just got range, great instincts. And your whole argument of division worth is crap. You're blaming Uribe's batting average on what pitchers he's seen? Giants have a lot of games outside of that division. They play the Dodgers who have a lot of good/decent pitchers. They also have the D-Backs with Vasquaz and Webb who have been good this year. All we have is Bonderman and Santana within the division who are "special", and a lot of good bullpens. We also play the Royals .

And let me remind you, our pitching staff has a lot of groundout pitchers. Garland lives on the ground ball out. Balls are put in play constantly, Uribe's having more double plays accounts for that. He also has more double plays because Vizquel is working with Durham, and not Iguchi.

I don't go to rotoworld and look up range. To me, its not worth much when it listed Valentin as having some of the best range in the league last year. He sucked at SS. Errors galore, and late breaks. I believe Range statistics take into account height, and how fast you are once you break. It doesn't account for reaction time and tendency to go all-out on a diving snag.

Vizquel isn't trash. If you've watched any Sox v. Indians matchups the past few years you should know that.


Uribe would have a lot more power than Vizquel and is younger. Vizquel might fit this team better with his style of play. I'm not going to cry either way, they both have good pluses.

Tragg
07-27-2005, 01:43 AM
Yes, I know who Vizquel is. "Over the years" isn't THIS year, which would be his 40th. I never criticized his game - just asked about range;

"You're blaming Uribe's batting average on what pitchers he's seen?"
I did no such thing. I said the differentials aren't what they appear because of the quality of pitching. I also said several times it's a big offensive upgrade. Please try to quote me accurately.

" Giants have a lot of games outside of that division. They play the Dodgers who have a lot of good/decent pitchers. They also have the D-Backs with Vasquaz and Webb who have been good this year. All we have is Bonderman and Santana within the division who are "special", and a lot of good bullpens. We also play the Royals ."
???? You've got to be kidding.
Twins - 5th; Indians - 7th; Tigers -11th; Royals 28
Padres - 14, Dodgers 19, Rockies 27
There's no comparison between the quality of pitching in the divisions. Between 30%-50% of your games are against yoiur division - it's relevant.

"Vizquel isn't trash." Who in the world said he was trash? Come on, man.
There's a big difference between not believing a player is great (my position) to believing he's trash.

balke
07-27-2005, 01:54 AM
Well, I said quite the opposite to Juan Uribe sucking. I compared him to Omar Vizquel, and that's nothing but a compliment. I also called him MVP earlier this season for the Sox. I also said he's a good SS defensively, and I'd be happy if he stayed or went for Vizquel, who's one of the best SS the game has seen.

Juan has a lot of power, when he's on a good streak he's one of the best players in the game. He's got a great arm, youth, and versatility. He would be the best overall 2nd baseman in baseball in my opinion. He's a good overall SS as well.

Tragg
07-27-2005, 02:01 AM
Well, I said quite the opposite to Juan Uribe sucking. I compared him to Omar Vizquel, and that's nothing but a compliment. I also called him MVP earlier this season for the Sox. I also said he's a good SS defensively, and I'd be happy if he stayed or went for Vizquel, who's one of the best SS the game has seen.

Juan has a lot of power, when he's on a good streak he's one of the best players in the game. He's got a great arm, youth, and versatility. He would be the best overall 2nd baseman in baseball in my opinion. He's a good overall SS as well.
Look, I'm no big Uribe fan; he's lousy with the bat, but he's doing a decent job in the field. I'd definitely try to replace him in the offseason, if not now. If Vizquel can adquately protect our pitchers (which is all I've been asking about), then bring him on - because that would address a weakness. I just don't know if he can now (I know he could with the Indians when they were good - but he's 40 now, not 32).
Iguchi plays a good 2b and has a solid bat, so there's no way I'd remove him for Uribe, if we got Vizquel.

GAsoxfan
07-27-2005, 08:45 AM
Technically, he's 38, not 40.

mdep524
07-27-2005, 09:48 AM
Iguchi plays a good 2b and has a solid bat, so there's no way I'd remove him for Uribe, if we got Vizquel. :?: Who would even seriously suggest that?

If Vizquel came aboard, Uribe would revert to super infield sub and spell Crede, Iguchi and Vizquel on a semi-regular basis, so he would still get good playing time. Vizquel's ability to hit good pitching would make him very valuable in the playoffs, as smart pitchers would throw sliders and nothing but sliders to Uribe in a tight playoff situation.

His range might be a step down from Uribe's, sure. But the overall downgrade defensively is very small. I watched some of Monday night's Giants/Cubs game to check out him, Schmidt and Eyre. I'm no scout, but I was impressed with Vizquel. And the numbers don't lie- nor are they significantly NL West inflated. That's like saying Todd Helton is only good because he plays at Coors Field. Good hitters are good hitters.

I say, do it KW!

GoGoSoxReborn
07-27-2005, 10:10 AM
Technically, he's 38, not 40.

And he was 37 last year and still sucking up balls smashed up the middle by sox hitters for the Indians. I'm willing to bet if you asked Juan Uribe who the better defensive shortstop is he would tell you Vizquel.

Let's put this in proper context. Sox are 30+ above .500. Giants stink; Giants pitching stinks. National league west pitching stinks. AL Central pitching is top tier, except for the Royals.

This argument for NL pitching being the only reason he is hitting .300 is bunk. In 16 seasons in the American league Vizquel is a career .275 hitter.

At 37 years of age he hit .291 last year while he was in the AL Central against this supposed "top tier" pitching you speak of.

maurice
07-27-2005, 11:39 AM
Urbie makes a lot too...

:?:
Uribe makes $2.15 mil. this year. That's a lot for most of us, but it ain't a lot for a MLB player.

Vizquel's yearly salary is not an issue either. IIRC, the only issue was the length of the deal. The Sox didn't want to sign a 38-year-old SS for 3 years. That may be less of an issue now, since he's essentially on a 2-year deal (but also a year older).

GAsoxfan
07-27-2005, 11:57 AM
Vizquel's yearly salary is not an issue either. IIRC, the only issue was the length of the deal. The Sox didn't want to sign a 38-year-old SS for 3 years. That may be less of an issue now, since he's essentially on a 2-year deal (but also a year older).

Vizquel is owed $9.1M over the last two years of his deal. That's less per year than the Sox paid E6 last year.

GoGoSoxReborn
07-27-2005, 12:09 PM
E6


:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:



:manos

"Whatever a-holes you know you miss me and my sexy stasch!"

soxwon
07-27-2005, 07:14 PM
Go ask A-rod, Jeter, Uribe, Ozzie, any SS who the best shortstop in MLB is. They'll tell you its Vizquel.

That's discounting the bat of course.

Whats Vizquel hitting?

balke
07-27-2005, 07:24 PM
Whats Vizquel hitting?


This guy is hitting .300 with 31 BB's and 31 K's. That's a sign of great hitting when you have as many, or more walks than K's. He does have 17 stolen bases, and he has 20 doubles.

That was as of yesterday.