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View Full Version : Rogers: Sox could get AJB but at what cost?


veeter
07-24-2005, 10:11 AM
Rogers article on the Sox acquiring Burnett started out very good. He feels the Sox would have to give up Marte and McCarthy for him. Then he goes on to say signing Burnett might mean they couldn't sign Konerko...that's fair enough. But then adds the Burnett high dollars could force them to trade Garland who stands to really be paid. Yeah that makes sense. Lets give Burnett, Garlands money. The same Garland who has a rubber arm and is on the fast track to the Cy Young. Rogers, you had me but you lost me.

tlebar318
07-24-2005, 10:16 AM
There is no way you let Garland get away. He is just starting to come into his own. I would rather we run out great pitching everyday and let the positions players move on if someone has to go in free agency. If we are going to let pitching go then get rid of the inconsistent but talented Contreras....

veeter
07-24-2005, 10:19 AM
I agree. A Garland package needs to be in the works first. Rogers also quoted a Van Dyke source as saying Burnett does not want to sign with the Sox. But if he did he would want to make more than Buehrle, Garcia and Garland. Are you nuts!!!?? Kenny don't do it for this jag.

harwar
07-24-2005, 10:32 AM
Every year you hear this same crap about guys that don't want to come to the southside.
Last year it was Larry Walker,Carlos Delgado,& Jeremy Burnitz.
If these idiots want to believe all the propaganda being thrown around out there,then let them go play somewhere else.
They can sit home and watch us on tv during october.

DaveIsHere
07-24-2005, 10:35 AM
They will not get rid of Garland, I would rather just rent AJ then have to get rid of any starting pitcher other than Jose

He gone
07-24-2005, 10:36 AM
There is no way you let Garland get away.

We've waited too long for Jon to show his true stuff. He gets paid 1st!!!!!

I wouldn't trade any prospects for AJ Burnett:angry: Well maybe a Felix Diaz and Jon Atkins :D:

tlebar318
07-24-2005, 10:38 AM
Why trade for AJ if he doesn't want to be here? I say look another direction if he is going to be unhappy here.....C'mon KW get us a starting pitcher! I know, easier said than done.....:D:

BeviBall!
07-24-2005, 10:50 AM
They're gonna pay Garland and they'd pay Burnett. Frankly, who cares about Konerko? There are many others, namely Lyle Overbay, that are just as good, if not better and cheaper.

If we fans keep filling The Cell, they can afford to pay both Garland and Burnett.

mdep524
07-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Yeah, I read that this morning and took it with a grain of salt. Trading Garcia or Garland, losing Konerko for nothing, and trading McCarthy and Marte just to get AJ Burnett in the rotation? Come on, no GM would do that.

Burnett is not exactly impressing me so far with his attitude either- wants huge money based on very little past success, doesn't want to sign with the Sox... Purely speculative, but he's possibly not the greatest clubhouse guy... more like Kevin Brown than Mark Buehrle.

I really wish those Jason Schmidt rumors would heat up again, but SF seems unwilling to deal him unless they are blown away, aka a bad deal for the Sox.

veeter
07-24-2005, 10:59 AM
Last nite reinforced my belief that El Duque gets up for big games. I mean that's why the Sox got him, right? If the Sox play .500 ball they win 96 games, so they're essentially in. That being said, I'll take my chances in the playoffs with Hernandez instead of Burnett ten times over. My target would be Billy Wagner or other good bullpen help.

Jurr
07-24-2005, 11:10 AM
They're gonna pay Garland and they'd pay Burnett. Frankly, who cares about Konerko? There are many others, namely Lyle Overbay, that are just as good, if not better and cheaper.

If we fans keep filling The Cell, they can afford to pay both Garland and Burnett.
I like the way you think. Damn right!

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-24-2005, 11:15 AM
when did burnett say he didnt want to sign with the sox?

Revolution29
07-24-2005, 11:20 AM
I'm all for trading for a starter ......as long as Garland doesn't go anywhere. He's finally come into his own and we've all waited too long for that. That being said, I'd give up Konerko in a heartbeat for a starter that isn't namedContreras . And, like BeviBall mentioned, if we keep winning and filling the Cell, then paying both Garland and AJB, for example, shouldn't be an issue.

balke
07-24-2005, 11:35 AM
This Garland talk is Flim-flam and poppycock. What an idiot pot-stirrer this writer is.

Mammoo
07-24-2005, 11:58 AM
Not a big McCarthey fan but I'm sure he can put up the mediocre numbers Burnett has.:?:

jabrch
07-24-2005, 12:03 PM
Buehrle, Freddy, JG, AJ and a Cuban...That would be nasty. Shorten that to a 4 man rotation in the playoffs and you have MB/FG/JG/AJ - Duque becomes a reliever. Contreras probably becomes trade bait - or is in the AJ deal to begin with.

If we can't get a top tier closer like Wagner, then this or a Schmidt deal are probably the next best way to strengthen this team.

KW has done a great job so far as GM - I'm gonna trust him if he gets a deal he likes.

My big fear in Lowell is that his contract is still for 3+ years and he has been really bad this season (after losing lots of weight this offseason). I don't want that albatross unless the Marlins are paying a chunk of his salary.

fquaye149
07-24-2005, 12:04 PM
Then he goes on to say signing Burnett might mean they couldn't sign Konerko...


:whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner:

beckett21
07-24-2005, 12:07 PM
Get it done Kenny...get it done. :cool:

PicktoCLick72
07-24-2005, 12:21 PM
Stay in Florida Burnett. You and your under .500 carreer record. Kenny has to be smart enough not to make this deal. AJ burnett = Carrie Woods Jr.

balke
07-24-2005, 12:24 PM
As irrational and childish as it is, I may be looking at tonight as Burnett v. Contreras. Let's see what all the fuss is about with Burnett, and see if Contreras can shut down the best offense in baseball.

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 12:26 PM
Not a big McCarthey fan but I'm sure he can put up the mediocre numbers Burnett has.:?:

Your signature reminded me of something that was said at Friday's WCSF luncheon. I was fortunate enough to sit next to Billy Pierce. After the luncheon was over, one older fan (like myself) said, "I don't understand why you didn't get to pitch that much in the '59 Series." Pierce's response was, "Neither do I."

gf2020
07-24-2005, 12:29 PM
We sit here and eviscerate Kerry Wood every day, but you know what? At least he has a 500 record. I see no reason why to jeopardize our payroll flexibility to bring his NL equivalent here, just so the media can fall over themselves for us finally acquiring a power pitcher.

I've seen nothing to show me that he is a definitive improvement over El Duque when it comes to the fourth starter role. Heck, if it really becomes a problem, we can go to a three man rotation in the postseason.

I'd much rather see us getting another bullpen arm like a Gudardo or Baez (Wagner will not be available,) that will help shorten the game.

soxfanreggie
07-24-2005, 12:37 PM
If Contreras pitches well today, I think it will show he's getting back on track. I think the biggest thing we need is Wagner. Our pen is good, compared to the league...with Cotts, Hermie, Politte, along with Damaso. That gives us 2 quality righties and lefties; however, it's the times when we don't bring them in aka Viz and whoever else that we get slammed. Wagner gives us the dominant closer. If we need a long reliever, Cotts is good for 2-3 innings. If we need set-up, you have Hermie and Damaso. Politte is a perfect 7th or 8th inning pitcher. Wagner could give us the best bullpen in the league. If Wagner is overworked, we have Hermie to back him up.

ajb gives us another starter, but we'll see if that's what we need the most.

Two things are likely to happen if we trade for Wagner, AJB, etc. We're either going to have to pick up a very overpaid player along with the salary of the player we pick up. Chances are, we're going to be paying a lot of money for these guys. Hopefully Jerry will pick up the contracts and see if he can pick up prospects for them. If we had to pick up Thome's contract, I don't really know where we'd put him. If we had to pick up Lowell's, it would be interesting to see if we kept him. We could try and get prospects if we had to pick up a player. The other thing is giving up some really darn good prospects. As long as we aren't mortgaging the farm to get these guys, I'd say go for it. Hopefully, like others have said, JR opens the war chest.

DVsoxfan
07-24-2005, 12:45 PM
I would be fine with just renting Burnett, as long as we don't give up Marte. KW already said that he was not gonna take away from the major league club, so i doubt he would trade marte. I really dont believe Burnett is worth giving a 4 yr 40 mil contract either, hardly anyone is...let alone a "stuff" guy who has been nothing but mediocre in his career. Besides, Burnett has already expressed interest in testing the FA waters. All this is JMO, well it should be interesting to see how this all plays out...do what you gotta do KW.

Jjav829
07-24-2005, 12:51 PM
As irrational and childish as it is, I may be looking at tonight as Burnett v. Contreras. Let's see what all the fuss is about with Burnett, and see if Contreras can shut down the best offense in baseball.

You're right. It's irrational. I'm more interested in seeing if Burnett actually starts today. If the deal is real as close as Levine seems to think it is, Burnett might not even start today. I'll be interested in seeing if Burnett actually takes the mound at 3:05 or if he is a late scratch with Valdez or Vargas making the start.

Vernam
07-24-2005, 12:53 PM
Your signature reminded me of something that was said at Friday's WCSF luncheon. I was fortunate enough to sit next to Billy Pierce. After the luncheon was over, one older fan (like myself) said, "I don't understand why you didn't get to pitch that much in the '59 Series." Pierce's response was, "Neither do I."
I've been wondering that since the Trib's nice game-by-game summary of the '59 series that ran when the Dodgers were here last month. My dad has passed on, or I'd have asked him . . . He was not a Lopez fan, for certain. The goofy thing is, was Lopez going to start Wynn again in Game 7? Seems like he'd have had to give Pierce a shot either way, so why not go with the guy who was rested? I wondered if Billy must've been hurt, but his comment to you seems to answer that.

VC

Flight #24
07-24-2005, 12:57 PM
Nice bit o'pot-stirring by Rogers, apparently it wasn't as worthwhile for him to spend more time discussing the much more likely scenario that instead of trading Garland, they'd just trade Contreras and give Jon his $6mil (and maybe a small bump over that).

Jose will be valuable since he's on a 1-yr deal, doesn't make a ton, and has shown that he's a pretty decent pitcher albiet prone to implosions.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 01:00 PM
Rogers article on the Sox acquiring Burnett started out very good. He feels the Sox would have to give up Marte and McCarthy for him. Then he goes on to say signing Burnett might mean they couldn't sign Konerko...that's fair enough. But then adds the Burnett high dollars could force them to trade Garland who stands to really be paid. Yeah that makes sense. Lets give Burnett, Garlands money. The same Garland who has a rubber arm and is on the fast track to the Cy Young. Rogers, you had me but you lost me.
The reality is that Rogers is absolutely correct. If we pay $10 million for a mediocre pitcher like AJ Burnett, how can we sign the others? What do we do - pay Garland $15 million a year?
Answer - don't trade for AJ Burnett. Trade for a top-level baseball player instead.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 01:01 PM
Nice bit o'pot-stirring by Rogers, apparently it wasn't as worthwhile for him to spend more time discussing the much more likely scenario that instead of trading Garland, they'd just trade Contreras and give Jon his $6mil (and maybe a small bump over that).

Jose will be valuable since he's on a 1-yr deal, doesn't make a ton, and has shown that he's a pretty decent pitcher albiet prone to implosions.

How in the world can $6 mill be justified for Jon, when a far inferior pitcher gets $10 million.

MRKARNO
07-24-2005, 01:01 PM
The reality is that Rogers is absolutely correct. If we pay $10 million for a mediocre pitcher like AJ Burnett, how can we sign the others? What do we do - pay Garland $15 million a year?


No, we let Pauly and his 9 million dollars go and promote from within to play first base while raising payroll by 5-10 million.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 01:05 PM
No, we let Pauly and his 9 million dollars go and promote from within to play first base while raising payroll by 5-10 million.
I know we can afford a $10 million salary for a medicore player next year. But it also has a ripple effect in the following years.
How do we justify paying Burnett more than any of out top 3 pitchers, when our top 3 pitchers are far and away superior to Burnett?

It would be nice to use some money in the offseason to fill other needs too, like a hitter, 1st baseman, bullpen help.

Lip Man 1
07-24-2005, 01:05 PM
This and that:

Before jumping on Phil to much remember in his WSI interview where he said to the effect that he makes projections based on the Sox financial situation. Remember he said years ago the Sox simply could not and would not be able to pay the 'big four' right handed hitters and would have to make moves. You'll have to agree he was coreect there wasn't he?

I'd love to get Burnett but not at the cost of Marte with an already thin bullpen. (Unless Williams gets bullpen help first.)

Hal, Pierce DID pitch in the 59 series, four games as I believe, he just didn't start the game. He talks about this is his WSI Interview. The only possible reason that I could come up research wise was because Billy had a hip injury and perhaps Lopez didn't think he was 100%. Billy disputed that and the records show he did pitch some good games in the last month when he returned. We'll never know for sure I guess.

Lip

balke
07-24-2005, 01:24 PM
You're right. It's irrational. I'm more interested in seeing if Burnett actually starts today. If the deal is real as close as Levine seems to think it is, Burnett might not even start today. I'll be interested in seeing if Burnett actually takes the mound at 3:05 or if he is a late scratch with Valdez or Vargas making the start.


I highly doubt he's being moved today, especially not to the Sox. He'd still need that 3 day window of discussion with Kenny or whatever. It would be a pretty dumb move for the Marlins too IMO. Why lose a start from this guy in the midst of a playoff hunt if he's so good?

owensmouth
07-24-2005, 01:42 PM
Nice bit o'pot-stirring by Rogers, apparently it wasn't as worthwhile for him to spend more time discussing the much more likely scenario that instead of trading Garland, they'd just trade Contreras and give Jon his $6mil (and maybe a small bump over that).

Jose will be valuable since he's on a 1-yr deal, doesn't make a ton, and has shown that he's a pretty decent pitcher albiet prone to implosions.Jose is not on a one year deal, he's signed thru 2006. We're paying him seven million this year and that may go up next year (the Yankees are paying him a 1.5 million signing bonus this year).

Florida wants to dump Burnett and their equally overpaid third baseman for Marte and McCarthy. In other words, they already know he's not worth squat and they're trying to fleece the White Sox. Screw them.

DVsoxfan
07-24-2005, 01:45 PM
Does anyone think that Ozzie might want Lowell here??...I know he really likes Crede...but still...just a thought

buehrle4cy05
07-24-2005, 01:57 PM
If they do trade for Burnett, they will have to sign him to a longer deal. KW knows that Burnett isn't as good as Freddy Garcia, and therefore shouldn't get Garcia money (what was it, 3/$24 around there). Burnett right now should command about a 3 year, $18 million contract at the most. A fair deal for someone like him would be 3 years, $14 or $15 million.

And if Mike Lowell is included in the deal...all for the better. Just because he's on the team doesn't mean that he's starting over Joe. Crede still have the edge at defense, but I think Lowell is having a year that all good players are entitled to.

my5thbench
07-24-2005, 02:19 PM
talking baseball on ESPN radio made sound as if the deal is close
to being done....could still be hung up on whether Lowell is included

rmusacch
07-24-2005, 02:23 PM
We've waited too long for Jon to show his true stuff. He gets paid 1st!!!!!

I wouldn't trade any prospects for AJ Burnett:angry: Well maybe a Felix Diaz and Jon Atkins :D:

How do we know if this is Garland's true stuff? I hope it is but this could very well be a fluke.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 02:27 PM
If they do trade for Burnett, they will have to sign him to a longer deal. KW knows that Burnett isn't as good as Freddy Garcia, and therefore shouldn't get Garcia money (what was it, 3/$24 around there). Burnett right now should command about a 3 year, $18 million contract at the most. A fair deal for someone like him would be 3 years, $14 or $15 million.

And if Mike Lowell is included in the deal...all for the better. Just because he's on the team doesn't mean that he's starting over Joe. Crede still have the edge at defense, but I think Lowell is having a year that all good players are entitled to.

I agree with your value estimates re contract.
But I doubt he does - there is no way in the world he's signing for even a 2/$14 without testing the FA market. If he does, KW is, indeed, a genius.
Do this deal WITH a 2/$14 contract, and not only am I no longer against it, I am FOR it.

balke
07-24-2005, 02:30 PM
How do we know if this is Garland's true stuff? I hope it is but this could very well be a fluke.


Its not a fluke, and A.J.'s never even had a fluke.

jhill36
07-24-2005, 02:38 PM
There is no way you let Garland get away. He is just starting to come into his own. I would rather we run out great pitching everyday and let the positions players move on if someone has to go in free agency. If we are going to let pitching go then get rid of the inconsistent but talented Contreras....

Amen, brother. On top of that, you have to dance with the horse that brung ya. One of the reasons the Sox abandoned power slugging is because that kind of philosophy leaves a team woefully vulnerable to slumps. Pitching and small ball alleviate that, which is why they've never had a losing streak of more than 3 games. But makes no mistake: it was pitching that got us here. So Garland stays, period.

IMO, this start today by Contreras is the most important game of the summer. It will (or should) determine his fate. If he's brilliant--like he was 2 starts ago--he should not be part of package to get Burnett. I happen to believe it's too risky to let go of Contreras. I know a lot of you disagree. But if he stinks today, I say let him go. Get A.J.

After all, two A.J.'s are better than one.

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 02:39 PM
I've been wondering that since the Trib's nice game-by-game summary of the '59 series that ran when the Dodgers were here last month. My dad has passed on, or I'd have asked him . . . He was not a Lopez fan, for certain. The goofy thing is, was Lopez going to start Wynn again in Game 7? Seems like he'd have had to give Pierce a shot either way, so why not go with the guy who was rested? I wondered if Billy must've been hurt, but his comment to you seems to answer that.

VC

Billy had suffered an injury earlier in the year, but was 100% by the time of the series. Apparently Lopez didn't trust him even though he was rested. I've heard that perhaps he was going to use Pierce in game 7, but it's possible he would have gone back to Shaw, too. Who knows?

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 02:43 PM
This and that:

Before jumping on Phil to much remember in his WSI interview where he said to the effect that he makes projections based on the Sox financial situation. Remember he said years ago the Sox simply could not and would not be able to pay the 'big four' right handed hitters and would have to make moves. You'll have to agree he was coreect there wasn't he?

I'd love to get Burnett but not at the cost of Marte with an already thin bullpen. (Unless Williams gets bullpen help first.)

Hal, Pierce DID pitch in the 59 series, four games as I believe, he just didn't start the game. He talks about this is his WSI Interview. The only possible reason that I could come up research wise was because Billy had a hip injury and perhaps Lopez didn't think he was 100%. Billy disputed that and the records show he did pitch some good games in the last month when he returned. We'll never know for sure I guess.

Lip

By pitch, I think the questioner meant "start." That's what I took him to mean. He made 3 appearances (all in relief) and pitched a total of 4 innings.

putherawaywet
07-24-2005, 02:50 PM
Let's not get carried away with all the AJ Burnett love the media keeps stirring up. He's a 500 pitcher. The only reason his name is even mentioned so much is because he's the only half-way decent guy available. These types of 500 pitchers are a dime a dozen - especially those that are injury prone. Usually the teams that sign these type of guys end up regretting the decision. He is basically Darren Dreifort - and how did that work out for the Dodgers? I'd much rather have a Clement/Garcia type of pitcher with a good track record in terms of health and ERA. Also, let's not be seduced by National League pitchers whose ERAs are depressed by about .9 when compared to American League counterparts. A recent study showed that the ERAs usually jump or are reduced by about that amount when a pitcher changes leagues.

I do agree with taking Konerko's money and spending it on pitching. Konerko is easily replaced with a faster, more reliable, cheaper hitter. Even giving Gload a shot in a platoon would be okay. Remember, that even though Konerko seems to have a lot of RBI's he has played in just about every game. Your first baseman that hits cleanup every single day should have that many RBIs at a minimum. That's especially true considering he's had guys getting on base fairly consistently for him.

A_ROW33
07-24-2005, 03:08 PM
I keep hearing that the Phillies won't trade Wagner unless Burnett goes to them. Trading for Burnett and then trading him and possibly a minor leaguer or two for Wagner is the only way I want to see us make a trade for Burnett.
I have heard that Burnett frequently looks at radar guns while on the mound to see if he ever cracks 100 mph. I don't like that, worry about getting the batter out, who cares how hard you throw?

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 04:08 PM
If Contreras stays yet the Sox still acquire Burnett (and Lowell), the Sox would have six starting pitchers. Problem, you say? Really, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Contreras could be dealt for bullpen help.

However, if the Sox then cannot package Contreras for a closer, I wonder if they would consider making Burnett the closer for the postseason, and then perhaps make a smaller deal for a left-handed specialist like, say, Scott Schoeneweis.

In this scenario, the playoff rotation would be Buehrle, Garland, Garcia and El Duque. Burnett would pitch the ninth. Hermanson pitches the eighth. Cotts or Politte pitch the seventh. Contreras or the new lefty could pitch the sixth. With that situation, the starters would not have to worry about eating innings; they could be comfortable leaving after pitching five.

This might allow the #1 starter - Buehrle - to start three games in a seven-game series (Games 1, 4 and 7), and Garland or Garcia might be able to close out Game 7 if needed (like Randy Johnson closed Game 7 for Curt Schilling in the 2001 Series).

That would be dynamite for the Sox and a nightmare for opposing managers.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 04:42 PM
Let's also consider the positive impact Don Cooper could have on A.J. Burnett.

Look at what kind of impact he had on Esteban Loaiza. I'll bet Don Cooper could fix Kerry Wood's issues and in adjusting his mechanics also could make him less prone to injury. I'm not advocating the Sox acquire Wood, but my point remains that Cooper would make Burnett a much better pitcher.

Daver
07-24-2005, 04:47 PM
Let's also consider the positive impact Don Cooper could have on A.J. Burnett.

Look at what kind of impact he had on Esteban Loaiza. I'll bet Don Cooper could fix Kerry Wood's issues and in adjusting his mechanics also could make him less prone to injury. I'm not advocating the Sox acquire Wood, but my point remains that Cooper would make Burnett a much better pitcher.

No one can fix Woods mechanics without being able to turn him into a finesse pitcher, they are that bad.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 04:54 PM
No one can fix Woods mechanics without being able to turn him into a finesse pitcher, they are that bad.

Daver, do you think Cooper could have a major positive impact on Burnett?

Daver
07-24-2005, 05:00 PM
Daver, do you think Cooper could have a major positive impact on Burnett?

Doubtful.

Power pitchers that throw from the shoulder and the back leg on the release are tough to change. Burnett throws over the top, as opposed to to the 3/4 arm slot, but that helps little. A successful power pitcher throws from his front leg, pushing himself towards the plate, not from the back foot, taking him to the side of the mound.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 05:04 PM
Doubtful.

Power pitchers that throw from the shoulder and the back leg on the release are tough to change. Burnett throws over the top, as opposed to to the 3/4 arm slot, but that helps little. A successful power pitcher throws from his front leg, pushing himself towards the plate, not from the back foot, taking him to the side of the mound.

I looove it when you analyze, Daver. Do you think Cooper could help Burnett at all, then?

Daver
07-24-2005, 05:06 PM
I looove it when you analyze, Daver. Do you think Cooper could help Burnett at all, then?

In time to help him this season?

No.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 05:10 PM
In time to help him this season?

No.

Fair enough. I trust your analysis more than my own. Let me ask this: if the Sox obtained Burnett but kept Contreras, and El Duque remained healthy (and the Sox didn't or couldn't trade for an experienced closer), which one of these three would be the #4 starter in the playoffs, and how would you deploy the other two in the pen?

Daver
07-24-2005, 05:18 PM
Fair enough. I trust your analysis more than my own. Let me ask this: if the Sox obtained Burnett but kept Contreras, and El Duque remained healthy (and the Sox didn't or couldn't trade for an experienced closer), which one of these three would be the #4 starter in the playoffs, and how would you deploy the other two in the pen?

Hernandez is your fourth starter, I don't care if he IS fifty years old, he has dominating stuff. Burnett and Contreas would take a start from Hernandez here and there going down the stretch to keep him fresh for the playoffs, and the rest remains on what the matchups are come October, either of the two will do better than Vizcaino out of the pen. Politte would be your set up man and Hermanson your closer.

I would rather the Sox did not obtain AJ Burnett.

MRKARNO
07-24-2005, 05:20 PM
Do you think Cooper could help Burnett at all, then?

I think Crede, Uribe, Iguchi and Konerko could help him out a lot more.

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 05:32 PM
Hernandez is your fourth starter, I don't care if he IS fifty years old, he has dominating stuff. Burnett and Contreas would take a start from Hernandez here and there going down the stretch to keep him fresh for the playoffs, and the rest remains on what the matchups are come October, either of the two will do better than Vizcaino out of the pen. Politte would be your set up man and Hermanson your closer.

I would rather the Sox did not obtain AJ Burnett.

Like I said before, I really appreciate your explanations and reasons. I have "one" more question: Would you simply rather not have Burnett on the Sox at any cost at all; do you think adding him to the team would be "subtraction by addition?" Or is there a particular threshold below which you would be OK with a trade; is the Marlins' asking price simply too high for the extent to which Burnett could help the Sox? I guess I'm just trying to understand if your overall concern with Burnett is Burnett himself (the player and/or the person), or what he would cost to obtain in a trade (or a combination of both).

Daver
07-24-2005, 05:42 PM
Like I said before, I really appreciate your explanations and reasons. I have "one" more question: Would you simply rather not have Burnett on the Sox at any cost at all; do you think adding him to the team would be "subtraction by addition?" Or is there a particular threshold below which you would be OK with a trade; is the Marlins' asking price simply too high for the extent to which Burnett could help the Sox? I guess I'm just trying to understand if your overall concern with Burnett is Burnett himself (the player and/or the person), or what he would cost to obtain in a trade (or a combination of both).

As it sits right now, the Sox are poised to give up one of the best left handed relievers in the game, as well as what may well be your fifth starter next year, for a pitcher that has a history of arm trouble, has been on the DL every year since 2000, and has a losing record for his time in the league. Suffice it to say I am underwhelmed, and I don't give a lot of stock to power pitchers in the first place.


But then again, what the hell do I know?

DaveIsHere
07-24-2005, 05:42 PM
you want a World Series Ring??


3 Words: Pitching Pitching Pitching

Do it KW, you do not have a chance like this much, at least in Chi-Town!!

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 05:51 PM
But then again, what the hell do I know?

A whole heck of a lot more than me (and 99% of everybody else), which is why I ask YOU these questions! :smile:

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 05:54 PM
Daver, I lied when I said my previous question was my last. :redface:

How would you feel if the Sox made the Burnett for Marte & McCarthy deal, but then flipped Burnett to the Philles for Wagner?

Daver
07-24-2005, 05:58 PM
Daver, I lied when I said my previous question was my last. :redface:

How would you feel if the Sox made the Burnett for Marte & McCarthy deal, but then flipped Burnett to the Philles for Wagner?

I doubt Wagner will be on the market.

Why would you trade three arms, two of them starters, for a closer?

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 06:02 PM
I doubt Wagner will be on the market.

Why would you trade three arms, two of them starters, for a closer?

Because I'd trade my left nut for a World Series win! :redface:

But since you put it that way, maybe I wouldn't do that series of deals after all. I'm so conflicted now. Good thing I'm not the GM. :redface:

DaveIsHere
07-24-2005, 06:05 PM
Because I'd trade my left nut for a World Series win! :redface:




Post of the Week!!!

I would give both, but hold on I have to have a kid first:D:

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2005, 06:06 PM
Post of the Week!!!

I would give both, but hold on I have to have a kid first:D:

You could always adopt..... :tongue:

BanditJimmy
07-24-2005, 07:18 PM
If Burnett is acquired as rumors are indicating, how would you guys feel if Contreras is pushed to the closer role?


This assuming that the Sox cannot deal him to another team like the Mariners for another closer like Guardado.



These would be drastic moves to make being that we are so late into the season, but the Sox have the Luxury of an 11 1/2 game lead that all they need to now is tune up the team for a long post season run.

CHIsoxNation
07-24-2005, 07:20 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they threw Contreras in some long relief for a while to see how he reacts. Depending on how Hermanson's back holds up I believe will be the key factor in whether or not Contreras will try to close out games. I believe he is too much of a head case to do it though, at least right now.

He gone
07-24-2005, 07:21 PM
I'd rather see closer-by-committee................

zach074
07-24-2005, 07:22 PM
Isn't Contreras supposed to be in the deal for Burnett?

SoxEd
07-24-2005, 07:23 PM
Contreras as closer?

If he's throwing strikes, OK, sure.

But, can you guarantee he'll throw strikes?

brewcrew/chisox
07-24-2005, 07:24 PM
If Burnett is acquired as rumors are indicating, how would you guys feel if Contreras is pushed to the closer role?


This assuming that the Sox cannot deal him to another team like the Mariners for another closer like Guardado.



These would be drastic moves to make being that we are so late into the season, but the Sox have the Luxury of an 11 1/2 game lead that all they need to now is tune up the team for a long post season run.

:?:

yeah we need a guy who walks a ton of batters and has a problem with concentration in tight situations to be the closer. :rolleyes:

Tragg
07-24-2005, 07:35 PM
Hernandez is your fourth starter, I don't care if he IS fifty years old, he has dominating stuff. Burnett and Contreas would take a start from Hernandez here and there going down the stretch to keep him fresh for the playoffs, and the rest remains on what the matchups are come October, either of the two will do better than Vizcaino out of the pen. Politte would be your set up man and Hermanson your closer.

I would rather the Sox did not obtain AJ Burnett.

If we must take Marlin refuse, rent of Burnett for a signed Contreras, straight up.

El D just needs to be handled delicately - give him plenty of rest.

Beauty35thStreet
07-24-2005, 08:21 PM
Rogers is a goof, but even assuming he's off his rocker, which he's probably not on some of the AJB chatter, I still say forget Burnett. The whole reason why we got El Duque was a 4th starter and the bonus was his playoff experience. I'm confident in both him and Contreras, see some of the Contreras posts, chisox7 changed me opinion on Contreras.

No way you put Contreras in relief, middle-relief ok, but not closer. We're fine with Politte, Hermanson, Marte, Jenks. I'd like to see Shingo go down, regroup, and try to add him as an aresenal. Wagner would be nice, but probably unrealistic, but thankfully, I think unnecessary.

If we must take Marlin refuse, rent of Burnett for a signed Contreras, straight up.

El D just needs to be handled delicately - give him plenty of rest.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 08:27 PM
Rogers is a goof, but even assuming he's off his rocker, which he's probably not on some of the AJB chatter, I still say forget Burnett. The whole reason why we got El Duque was a 4th starter and the bonus was his playoff experience. I'm confident in both him and Contreras, see some of the Contreras posts, chisox7 changed me opinion on Contreras.

No way you put Contreras in relief, middle-relief ok, but not closer. We're fine with Politte, Hermanson, Marte, Jenks. I'd like to see Shingo go down, regroup, and try to add him as an aresenal. Wagner would be nice, but probably unrealistic, but thankfully, I think unnecessary.

That's why if we insist on giving up talent for Marlins players, Contreras, not marte, is who we should give up (unless we're really worried about El D finishing the season). I don't know that we have room for 6 starters either.

Rent of Burnett for signed Contreras straight up. No more.

Daver
07-24-2005, 08:33 PM
I don't know that we have room for 6 starters either.


Pitching is the most valuable commodity in baseball, you always have room for six starters, the question is what you want to give up to acheive six starters.

I think we had this same conversation in the offseason on whether the Sox should trade Jon Garland.......

Flight #24
07-24-2005, 08:51 PM
Jose is not on a one year deal, he's signed thru 2006. We're paying him seven million this year and that may go up next year (the Yankees are paying him a 1.5 million signing bonus this year).

Florida wants to dump Burnett and their equally overpaid third baseman for Marte and McCarthy. In other words, they already know he's not worth squat and they're trying to fleece the White Sox. Screw them.

That's what I meant by 1-yr deal. After '05, he's got 1 year left, and it's $6mil - the Yanks pay the bonus in '06 as well.

A pitcher with Jose's performance, at $6mil, and on a short-term contract will bring you something in return, esp if you send him to the NL where he can effectively take a break every time through the lineup with the pitcher.

wdelaney72
07-25-2005, 02:38 PM
As far as asking if Coop could help Burnett, ask yourself how much has he helped Contreras? Given the fact that Contreras has performed in the same manner as he did with the Yankees (brilliant at times, and completely stupid at other times), I'd see Coop hasn't been able to help Contreras all that much, but that's Contreras's own fault. You can't help someone who's not willing to listen. Burnett strikes me as a similar experiment.

Flight #24
07-25-2005, 02:44 PM
As far as asking if Coop could help Burnett, ask yourself how much has he helped Contreras? Given the fact that Contreras has performed in the same manner as he did with the Yankees (brilliant at times, and completely stupid at other times), I'd see Coop hasn't been able to help Contreras all that much, but that's Contreras's own fault. You can't help someone who's not willing to listen. Burnett strikes me as a similar experiment.

:?:

Jose Contreras

2004: 1.47 WHIP / 5.50 ERA / 4.4 BB/9
2005: 1.31 WHIP / 4.36 ERA / 3.96 BB/9

No improvement there.......

ChiSoxBobette
07-25-2005, 03:13 PM
Rogers article on the Sox acquiring Burnett started out very good. He feels the Sox would have to give up Marte and McCarthy for him. Then he goes on to say signing Burnett might mean they couldn't sign Konerko...that's fair enough. But then adds the Burnett high dollars could force them to trade Garland who stands to really be paid. Yeah that makes sense. Lets give Burnett, Garlands money. The same Garland who has a rubber arm and is on the fast track to the Cy Young. Rogers, you had me but you lost me.

I say lets go after some bullpen help & a hitter , the hell with AJ Burnett this morning on espn sportscenter he reportedly said that he will not sign with anyone who trades for him unless its the Bosox because thats where he wants to play, so if thats true and I'm Kenny Williams I tell Burnett & Florida to go pound rocks we better not get rid of a very good prospect in B-Mac only to see him muture into a great pitcher with Florida for some kerry wood type pitcher(AJ Burdett) so he can be in boston next year.

balke
07-25-2005, 03:38 PM
I say lets go after some bullpen help & a hitter , the hell with AJ Burnett this morning on espn sportscenter he reportedly said that he will not sign with anyone who trades for him unless its the Bosox because thats where he wants to play, so if thats true and I'm Kenny Williams I tell Burnett & Florida to go pound rocks we better not get rid of a very good prospect in B-Mac only to see him muture into a great pitcher with Florida for some kerry wood type pitcher(AJ Burdett) so he can be in boston next year.


ESPN said this. Think about it.

denev1
07-25-2005, 03:50 PM
If the Tribune is talking about this as almost a done deal it's more likely that KW is showing them what they want meanwhile persuing other capable pithers.

Anyone up for a Jason Schmidt/Dustin Hermanson reunion???

GO SOX!!!

WhiteSoxNation
07-25-2005, 03:53 PM
Worried bout this one, i hope we can get him but not at that extreme cost.

GAsoxfan
07-25-2005, 04:12 PM
Because I'd trade my left nut for a World Series win! :redface:



Be careful what you say, or you could end up like Denis Leary. That Boston Red Sox Mastercard commercial spoof was hilarious.

BRDSR
07-25-2005, 04:46 PM
My expert thoughts on trading Marte and BMac for AJ Burnett:

What I don't get is everyone's love affair with Brandon McCarthy. The man(boy) has had one good spring training but other than that has done nothing distinguished in his professional career. "Can't miss" prospects are a dime a dozen. I have no problem giving him up. It's not like we're giving up a Garland for a Karchner.

Marte's star has been waning in Chicago for over a season and a half. I am not excited when I see him enter the game in a tight situation, which he almost always does. He always seems to walk someone or give up a timely base hit. His ERA is decieving. He's been much worse than that this year.

The void that would be left by Marte's departure would be fillable with whoever is the odd man out in the rotation. Furthermore, having so many "starters arms" in the pen in the playoffs gives Ozzie a plethora of options out of the pen if the starter falters. Those options are invaluable during the playoffs. I would make this trade in a heartbeat even if it were painfully obvious that Burnett could not be resigned for next year.

Optipessimism
07-25-2005, 04:56 PM
Calling out for Contreras to be traded, especially to open a spot for Burnett who would be much more expensive if signed, is ridiculous IMO.

The only way a Burnett deal makes sense IMO is if he was to be signed and slotted as our No. 4 starter with Contreras being the No. 5. Remember all our fifth starter woes? Remember all of the people here wanting to see just about any schmuck in the world out there as long as he provided an ERA under 5.00?

Contreras makes $6 mil from us and for the job he is done that is an absolute steal. Compare Contreras and his contract to recent FA signings like Odalis Perez and Derek Lowe and their contracts and tell me this is not a steal.

If a Burnett trade and signing would move El Duque to the bullpen or make him expendible, then we may have something. A present and future rotation of Buerhle-Garland-Garcia-Burnett-Contreras is IMO more than I could have ever hoped for after watching the pitching this organization would trot out there for the last several years. If that staff could remain healthy we would have key ingredient no. 1 for several consecutive trips to the playoffs.

But, people are always going to be clamoring for something better. Let's take a look at this thing first and consider where we have been for so long. That should make us happy.

balke
07-25-2005, 05:17 PM
My expert thoughts on trading Marte and BMac for AJ Burnett:

What I don't get is everyone's love affair with Brandon McCarthy. The man(boy) has had one good spring training but other than that has done nothing distinguished in his professional career. "Can't miss" prospects are a dime a dozen. I have no problem giving him up. It's not like we're giving up a Garland for a Karchner.

Marte's star has been waning in Chicago for over a season and a half. I am not excited when I see him enter the game in a tight situation, which he almost always does. He always seems to walk someone or give up a timely base hit. His ERA is decieving. He's been much worse than that this year.

The void that would be left by Marte's departure would be fillable with whoever is the odd man out in the rotation. Furthermore, having so many "starters arms" in the pen in the playoffs gives Ozzie a plethora of options out of the pen if the starter falters. Those options are invaluable during the playoffs. I would make this trade in a heartbeat even if it were painfully obvious that Burnett could not be resigned for next year.

A tall 21 year old pitcher who has control of his fastball, and who has a wicked curveball is what people see. He's also a White Sox fan, one of our best chances to have a homegrown pitcher succeed in a LONG time, and a prospect who looks to not only be a can't miss, but be an ELITE starter.

He is not a lock, you are right. He's just a prospect, you're right. But don't be so sure that 4-5 starts for a 21 year old prospect at the big league level, after he's barely seen AAA means he's worth giving away. How old was blackjack when he was called up to the bigs? How long did it take Garland to become Jon Garland?

Here's a little blurb to consider:

After spending most of the 1987 season in AA baseball, McDowell joined the White Sox in September, compiling a 3-0 record and a 1.93 ERA. He became a full-time starter in 1988, but was generally ineffective and was back in the minors the following season.
In 1990, though, McDowell was back with the White Sox to begin a string of four winnning seasons. He led the American League in complete games with 15 in 1991 and 13 in 1992 and won the Cy Young Award as the league's outstanding pitcher in 1993. That season, McDowell was the league leader in victories with a 22-10 record and in shutouts with 4.


So, I wouldn't just dismiss this guy as "Just another prospect". He's shown something, Spring Training or not. Give him time to work on mixing up his change-up and fastball with his curve, possibly add a pitch... and this prospect could be a dominant starting pitcher in the major leagues.

Flight #24
07-25-2005, 05:29 PM
A present and future rotation of Buerhle-Garland-Garcia-Burnett-Contreras is IMO more than I could have ever hoped for after watching the pitching this organization would trot out there for the last several years. If that staff could remain healthy we would have key ingredient no. 1 for several consecutive trips to the playoffs.



IIRC, the Spankees were already interested in re-acquiring Contreras, no? If so, assuming he's reasonably healthy from here on out, I don't see why we couldn't trade him to save the $$$ (give it to Garland), and acquire some depth at anothe position.

But that's all putting hte cart before the horse. let's get to the postseason and make some hay first. Heck - let's win the damn thing, up the payroll to $95mil, and keep everyone.

riverside marked as a troll again
07-25-2005, 05:35 PM
One thing about Brandon McCarthy that bugs me is that he pitches from his arm and he does not use his legs, and that means he will not last a long time,

BRDSR
07-25-2005, 05:38 PM
balke,

You and I don't really disagree very much. All we disagree about is how much a solid prospect is worth. I guess I don't think its worth very much and you do. But the question I ask myself is, if McCarthy became the next Jack McDowell(or Roger Clemens, insert any name) and the White Sox won the World Series in 2005 post-trade, how painful would it be to see McCarthy go. My answer is: not painful at all.

balke
07-25-2005, 05:45 PM
balke,

You and I don't really disagree very much. All we disagree about is how much a solid prospect is worth. I guess I don't think its worth very much and you do. But the question I ask myself is, if McCarthy became the next Jack McDowell(or Roger Clemens, insert any name) and the White Sox won the World Series in 2005 post-trade, how painful would it be to see McCarthy go. My answer is: not painful at all.


I completely agree. I think the Sox better make any move with him worth it though, and yes a World Series would be worth it. Brandon has a crapload of potential, you can't just brush it off like he's just another minor leaguer IMO. I'd be upset if say, we blew him on a Marte/Mccarthy for Wagner deal. I'd also be upset if Burnett is a rental, and doesn't win it for us, when Mccarthy is guaranteed to play for us cheap in the future. He could add in the future to this rotation that is pretty solid already.


Overall, I just think if you spend a Mccarthy, better check over the deal 100 or so times, and make sure its completely worth it, and that its the most you can get out of the deal.

owensmouth
07-25-2005, 05:48 PM
balke,

You and I don't really disagree very much. All we disagree about is how much a solid prospect is worth. I guess I don't think its worth very much and you do. But the question I ask myself is, if McCarthy became the next Jack McDowell(or Roger Clemens, insert any name) and the White Sox won the World Series in 2005 post-trade, how painful would it be to see McCarthy go. My answer is: not painful at all.Perhaps not this year, but what next year when the Sox still don't have anyone in their minor league system that they can rely upon? Or if McCarthy does blossom, what about then? Look no further than Wrigley Field and think: Willis and Garland. Both left in trades to shore up a perceived slight. McCarthy IMO will be the same type of young man.

Ol' No. 2
07-25-2005, 05:49 PM
balke,

You and I don't really disagree very much. All we disagree about is how much a solid prospect is worth. I guess I don't think its worth very much and you do. But the question I ask myself is, if McCarthy became the next Jack McDowell(or Roger Clemens, insert any name) and the White Sox won the World Series in 2005 post-trade, how painful would it be to see McCarthy go. My answer is: not painful at all.How painful would it be if the White Sox DIDN'T win the World Series in 2005? No player comes with a guarantee. At best it only improves your odds a little bit.

BRDSR
07-25-2005, 06:04 PM
How painful would it be if the White Sox DIDN'T win the World Series in 2005? No player comes with a guarantee. At best it only improves your odds a little bit.

ON2,

You're 54 I see. You've suffered 54 years of the White Sox DIDN'T winning the World Series. It's not that painful. But how ecstatic would you be if they DID win the World Seires? I say that the White Sox can afford to take big risks player-wise because the overall risk is not that great. What, not winning a World Series again? Yawn. But it's been a long time(never) since I felt we had this good of a chance to win it. Any small improvements on our odds is worth almost anything to me.

Edit: Incidently, ON2, you don't happen to have split season tickets in Section 103, do you? You remind me a lot of the guy who sits right in front of me. I like him.

fquaye149
07-25-2005, 06:06 PM
How painful would it be if the White Sox DIDN'T win the World Series in 2005? No player comes with a guarantee. At best it only improves your odds a little bit.

But there's just as good a chance that McCarthy won't do anything and that Marte is running down the end of his career.

I like McCarthy, and would prefer to keep him...but if KW feels it's a good decision, I'll go w/ his instincts.

The surefire hall of famer Jeremy Reed hasn't started appearing in any Sox fans' nightmares (JeremyB excepted) and we didn't win the World Series last year either.

That is most likely to be the situation if we traded Marte and McCarthy for Burnett and resigned him. A lot more likely than Bmac being the next Bagwell or Brock.

ARoman27
07-25-2005, 06:12 PM
The Burnett deal is only a good deal if the Sox also can make waves with a Contreras deal for bullpen support. No reason to send Contreras (a starting pitcher, with a history of not being happy in the bullpen) to the bullpen,when we can leverage his value in a trade to a contending team for a reliever. I would think Philly might have some interest in a pitcher like Contreras who might even perform better in the NL. Of course with Philly being only 3-games back I would consider them buyers and not sellers, so Wagner stays. Although what about Guillen's friend, Ugueth Urbina. He seems to be the perfect fit for our bullpen, because he can add back-of-the-bullpen support while at the same time having a lot of closing experience. Reuniting him with Garcia and Guillen could even help him stay more focused.

Ol' No. 2
07-25-2005, 06:16 PM
ON2,

You're 54 I see. You've suffered 54 years of the White Sox DIDN'T winning the World Series. It's not that painful. But how ecstatic would you be if they DID win the World Seires? I say that the White Sox can afford to take big risks player-wise because the overall risk is not that great. What, not winning a World Series again? Yawn. But it's been a long time(never) since I felt we had this good of a chance to win it. Any small improvements on our odds is worth almost anything to me.

Edit: Incidently, ON2, you don't happen to have split season tickets in Section 103, do you? You remind me a lot of the guy who sits right in front of me. I like him.No matter what you do, the chance of winning a WS is far less than 50-50. I don't like betting the future on longshots, and that's what we'd be doing by trading away prime talent for a miniscule improvement in their chances. IMO, they would be much better building a successful nucleus that can contend year after year, and you have to retain talent to do that - especially pitching talent. That's not to say you never trade prospects to improve the team. But you have to be very careful. I might trade McCarthy for Burnett, but ONLY if they could re-sign him for next year. And I want no part of the albatross of Lowell's contract.

And no, I share a full season plan in section 126.

PodzStyleMultiAccount
07-25-2005, 06:18 PM
Last nite reinforced my belief that El Duque gets up for big games. I mean that's why the Sox got him, right? If the Sox play .500 ball they win 96 games, so they're essentially in. That being said, I'll take my chances in the playoffs with Hernandez instead of Burnett ten times over. My target would be Billy Wagner or other good bullpen help.

Best post in the thread.

ktsmith
07-25-2005, 06:19 PM
I think that all of you who are whining about needing another starting pitcher are just plain stupid. I wouldn't give up Konerko for Burnett. Jesus Christ, get some perspective around here. What's the most wins Burnett has gotten in a season? I guarantee you, if Williams gets rid of anybody more than Marte and McCarthy (too much if you ask me), forget about World Series. Forget about an enjoyable team. I guess we in Chicago are so insecure about the Sox that even a team as good as this one, just isn't enough. I'm sick of hearing about how much more the best team in baseball needs. Shut up!

California Sox
07-25-2005, 06:22 PM
I think I'm different than a lot of people here in that winning the W.S., while great and all that, is not the Holy Grail, the solution to all of life's problems for me. I enjoy following the Sox every year. Not just the year they finally win the Big One. So if I had to choose between contending every year and winning maybe once like Atlanta or sucking for years and years and then suddenly popping up and winning the W.S., like Florida, I'd take the Atlanta situation. Truth is, you can't build a team that is guaranteed to cruise through the playoffs, but you can give yourself a chance in the the regular season every year.

Personally, I like following the Sox minor leagues and I like McCarthy. Saw him in the spring and I was impressed. I also liked Reed. But obviously Kenny knows these players and their potential better than I do. That said, I would not acquire Burnett if we can't sign him beyond this year. We're thin in pitching at the upper levels of our system as it is. If McCarthy and Contreras are dealt (as rumored) and Burnett walks, we're left with Garland, Buerhle, Garcia, whatever's left of El Duque, and a return to the fifth starter merry-go-round. Does anyone seriously want to take the risk that Arnie Munoz is going to be pitching meaningful innings for the Sox in 2006?

I think KW's doing the right thing: Taking it slow and making the trade ONLY if Burnett agrees to be a Sox long term.

HITMEN OF 77
07-25-2005, 06:29 PM
Best post in the thread.

I'll second that.

owensmouth
07-25-2005, 06:48 PM
But there's just as good a chance that McCarthy won't do anything and that Marte is running down the end of his career.

I like McCarthy, and would prefer to keep him...but if KW feels it's a good decision, I'll go w/ his instincts.

The surefire hall of famer Jeremy Reed hasn't started appearing in any Sox fans' nightmares (JeremyB excepted) and we didn't win the World Series last year either.

That is most likely to be the situation if we traded Marte and McCarthy for Burnett and resigned him. A lot more likely than Bmac being the next Bagwell or Brock.No. but all three are playing for the Mariners and one, Morse is outhitting anyone on the White Sox the last I looked.

Gym Shoe
07-25-2005, 06:57 PM
But there's just as good a chance that McCarthy won't do anything and that Marte is running down the end of his career.

I like McCarthy, and would prefer to keep him...but if KW feels it's a good decision, I'll go w/ his instincts.

The surefire hall of famer Jeremy Reed hasn't started appearing in any Sox fans' nightmares (JeremyB excepted) and we didn't win the World Series last year either.

That is most likely to be the situation if we traded Marte and McCarthy for Burnett and resigned him. A lot more likely than Bmac being the next Bagwell or Brock.


The main point though is that we had outfielders in a surplus and we got a PITCHER. Furthermore, we got a pitcher (Freddy) who has much better numbers and success rate in the AL than AJ Burnett has right now in the NL. If it were Roger Clemens, I can see us thinking about giving away Brandon McC to make a huge playoff run, but I want you guys to really think about this, is AJ Burnett that much better than Contreras when:

a) We are in the playoffs and we might only need Buehrle, Garland, Garcia?
b) We might give up one of the best lefties in the game and our bullpen is a little banged up/tired?

The main point is that we made moves in the past to get to the playoffs. We're going to make it this year, so should we move on a very questionable pitcher (whose value is sky high only because he's the only guy out there), while giving up a lot?

If Millwood, Schmidt, or Clemens, i'd be singing a different tune. But a 3.5+ ERA in the NL doesn't sound that good to me for a great lefty and a big time pitching prospect when you don't even really need a 4th starter right now (El Duque has a good post season record still)

Gym

balke
07-25-2005, 07:07 PM
No. but all three are playing for the Mariners and one, Morse is outhitting anyone on the White Sox the last I looked.


He's out Batting averaging everyone on the White Sox (was hitting like .426 not too long ago). Jeremy Reed nearly hit .400 last season in limited action. Don't start this crap up again.

LAST 7 .261 .320 .304
SEASON .331 .400 .419

7 doubles, 1 HR in 136 AB's. 5 GIDP's 10 ERRORS in 40 games. We'll call him good if he ever gets good.

Daver
07-25-2005, 07:13 PM
He's out Batting averaging everyone on the White Sox (was hitting like .426 not too long ago). Jeremy Reed nearly hit .400 last season in limited action. Don't start this crap up again.

LAST 7 .261 .320 .304
SEASON .331 .400 .419

7 doubles, 1 HR in 136 AB's. 5 GIDP's 10 ERRORS in 40 games. We'll call him good if he ever gets good.

Mike Morse was mediocre for seven years in the minors, why expect more?

SOXfnNlansing
07-25-2005, 07:15 PM
:tomatoaward

kitekrazy
07-26-2005, 12:48 AM
The whole trade scenario sounded quite stupid. Sounds like the Sox would be dealing out of weakness of seasons past. Not this year. I think it's just another Tribune writer who despises the Sox success.
The Sox still have the best record in baseball with the team they got. For once the Sox really don't have to make any trades, but I think we are neglecting the need for depth on the bench. There's no backup for Crede. Ozuna looks like the 2nd coming of Jose V.

Hoffdaddydmb
07-28-2005, 12:06 AM
If McCarthy and Contreras are dealt (as rumored) and Burnett walks, we're left with Garland, Buerhle, Garcia, whatever's left of El Duque, and a return to the fifth starter merry-go-round. Does anyone seriously want to take the risk that Arnie Munoz is going to be pitching meaningful innings for the Sox in 2006?

Dear god, please don't take me back to the dark ages. I'd rather they just leave things the way they are. Give BMac some time and he'll come around. I hate to see us keep developing our prospects only to give them away to another team.