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CubsfansareDRUNK
07-23-2005, 08:47 PM
Ugly day for the offense

we had so many chances to score

whitesoxfan
07-23-2005, 08:48 PM
had our chances, just didn't execute. El Duque made one bad pitch and got a tough L tonight.

all i gotta say is, let's split tomorrow.

Viva Medias B's
07-23-2005, 08:48 PM
I'm tired of the 2004 White Sox. Bring me back the 2005 White Sox.

soltrain21
07-23-2005, 08:49 PM
Everett looked terrible. I hope to see Gload as the DH tomorrow.


And Dye back in the lineup would be extremely nice.

downstairs
07-23-2005, 08:49 PM
No such thing as "Oh Well".

I've heard that too often in the second half.

Look... we're going to the playoffs. No doubt.

But if we can't take 3 of 4 from Boston, then we can't take 4 of 7 from Boston.

Now what?

PAPChiSox729
07-23-2005, 08:49 PM
had our chances, just didn't execute. El Duque made one bad pitch and got a tough L tonight.

all i gotta say is, let's split tomorrow.

Yeah, we just shot ourselves in the foot. Had no timely hitting at all. I'm not worried. These nights happen. I am still confident that we can dominate the Red Sox.

soltrain21
07-23-2005, 08:50 PM
But if we can't take 3 of 4 from Boston, then we can't take 4 of 7 from Boston.




Not true. We are missing Dye and Thomas, who knows what happens when ONE of those guys are in the lineup? You never know.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-23-2005, 08:50 PM
No such thing as "Oh Well".

I've heard that too often in the second half.

Look... we're going to the playoffs. No doubt.

But if we can't take 3 of 4 from Boston, then we can't take 4 of 7 from Boston.

Now what?

we may not have to

RadioheadRocks
07-23-2005, 08:50 PM
Ugly day for the offense

we had so many chances to score

Exactly... our offense can ill afford to go to sleep on us at all down the stretch!

SoxSpeed22
07-23-2005, 08:50 PM
:dye:"Like me!"
:elduque:"Ditto"
:hurt"Oh yeah"

TimoandAaron
07-23-2005, 08:50 PM
what if we take 2 of 4 from boston, then what happens?


I heard Hawk say something like JUUUUUST missed it like 30 times today:(:

owensmouth
07-23-2005, 08:51 PM
I HATE RAMERIZ

Cowhead418
07-23-2005, 08:51 PM
Miller was giving us this game on a platter but apparently our hitters weren't hungry because they couldn't hit the beach balls he was throwing. Another gift-wrapped game...:angry: We didn't techinally beat ourselves, but a better way of describing this game is to say the White Sox lost, not the Red Sox won.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-23-2005, 08:51 PM
when the bases were loaded i KNEW konerko was gunna pop out

Brian26
07-23-2005, 08:51 PM
It appears the White Sox game plan going up against Schilling is to swing at the first pitch. I was really hoping Rowand would take a couple of pitches with two guys on and nobody out...maybe to load the bases up for Timo and/or Crede. Tough loss because that 9th inning started out nicely.

tschneid83
07-23-2005, 08:51 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3087


poo

DarkCloudDropo
07-23-2005, 08:52 PM
I think this is only our second time being shutout this season.
Anyone know if we're leading the league with the fewest ?

dcb33
07-23-2005, 08:52 PM
Ugly, ugly loss. Plenty of wasted opportunities with 8 men LOB. The low point was those two double plays in the 7th and 9th. Hey Juan and Aaron- it's called PATIENCE! You don't have to swing at the first pitch. Tonight was just frustrating because they wasted a really good outing by El Duque.

soxfanreggie
07-23-2005, 08:53 PM
Yes it was. I'm surprised they didn't put Gload in for PK in the 9th to run. With how slow PK is, you would have thought it would have been a great opportunity to get into the game. I would like to see us bring up Brian Anderson too. Timo is the best option to send down for him because he could play every day down there and we would likely get more out of Anderson.


Horrible day for the offense though, couldn't really take advantage of stuff. Pen only have up 1 in almost 3 innings; however that 1 run changed the complexion of the game. 2-0 game in the 9th and you put in pinch runners and have A-Row bunt them over...oh well, can't win them all...let's take the next few fellas...

Viva Medias B's
07-23-2005, 08:53 PM
It seems that we have trouble winning at home in front of big crowds. Why is that?

SABRSox
07-23-2005, 08:53 PM
No such thing as "Oh Well".

I actually prefer "Next."

patbooyah
07-23-2005, 08:53 PM
our third.

SoxSpeed22
07-23-2005, 08:53 PM
when the bases were loaded i KNEW konerko was gunna pop outYou can NEVER count on him in a big situation. (to do somethin good)

downstairs
07-23-2005, 08:54 PM
we may not have to

You get my point.

Substitute "Boston" with LA, NY, whatever.

This series was as "playoff" as you get... atmosphere, opposing team.

And we did the same thing we've done in such an atmosphere for the last century.

Nothing.

downstairs
07-23-2005, 08:55 PM
I actually prefer "Next."

To each their own. I don't care about the regular season anymore. Haven't since we were 12 games up or whatever it was.

We're in the playoffs.

So lets spend the next couple of months playng like it, OK?

Cowhead418
07-23-2005, 08:55 PM
You get my point.

Substitute "Boston" with LA, NY, whatever.

This series was as "playoff" as you get... atmosphere, opposing team.

And we did the same thing we've done in such an atmosphere for the last century.

Nothing.
So are you suggesting we call off the season because we won't go anywhere anyways?

SoxEd
07-23-2005, 08:56 PM
We suck!

We're back down to only 30 over .500!

So, we got shut down tonight, and lost to the Red Sox...

How many times have we been shut down this year?

We only gave up 3 runs against one of the most vaunted offensive lineups in baseball, and of our bats, Frank & Dye are both on the DL.

Twins lost one too, so we're still 10.5 up.

It ain't a perfect day, but I'm not slitting my wrists just yet.

whitesoxfan
07-23-2005, 08:56 PM
You get my point.

Substitute "Boston" with LA, NY, whatever.

This series was as "playoff" as you get... atmosphere, opposing team.

And we did the same thing we've done in such an atmosphere for the last century.

Nothing.

last i checked, its not October.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-23-2005, 08:57 PM
You can NEVER count on him in a big situation. (to do somethin good)

agreed. konerko's the kinda guy who hits a solo shot in some early inning with nobody on.

Viva Medias B's
07-23-2005, 08:59 PM
To those of you knock us for getting angry over losing, let me remind you that we are White Sox fans. While we certainly realize that we cannot win them all, we are demanding and have no tolerance for losing.

Foulke You
07-23-2005, 09:00 PM
It appears the White Sox game plan going up against Schilling is to swing at the first pitch. I was really hoping Rowand would take a couple of pitches with two guys on and nobody out...maybe to load the bases up for Timo and/or Crede. Tough loss because that 9th inning started out nicely.
I noticed that too. The only thing I could think of was Rowand was looking for a cookie right down the middle on the first pitch and he didn't get it. It wasn't one of his better ABs.

Our lineup is really struggling without Dye and Thomas right now. Get well soon boys. Also, I'd like to see Ozuna get in the lineup tomorrow for Uribe. We need the extra offensive spark he provides right now while the lineup is in its weakened state.

TomParrish79
07-23-2005, 09:01 PM
way too much arguing on these postgame threads here lately.

tschneid83
07-23-2005, 09:01 PM
To those of you knock us for getting angry over losing, let me remind you that we are White Sox fans. While we certainly realize that we cannot win them all, we are demanding and have no tolerance for losing.

i agree...... go get them tom

Juice16
07-23-2005, 09:01 PM
Shut out by Wade Miller is ................ I really have nothing to say. I'm getting very tired of seeing our hitters get meat pitches and them fouling the ball off. Getting the first two on in the 9th, nobody out, double play, knife in the chest. 30 games above .500 doesnt make beating themselves any easier to watch.

TaylorStSox
07-23-2005, 09:02 PM
You still have to get Schilling early in the count. He doesn't walk anybody. Aaron appeared to jam himself.

owensmouth
07-23-2005, 09:02 PM
when the bases were loaded i KNEW konerko was gunna pop outYeah, right, it was all Konerko's fault...

Juice16
07-23-2005, 09:04 PM
Yeah, right, it was all Konerko's fault...

I knew he was going to pop out too. Why? Because he does it everytime. No it's Paulie's fault but it happens way to much. I'd settle for a line drive out.

TaylorStSox
07-23-2005, 09:04 PM
Yeah, right, it was all Konerko's fault...

Obviously, it's not his fault. I'd still like to see him get one hit, just one, with RISP and 2 outs.

mdep524
07-23-2005, 09:05 PM
Honestly, I think this loss was worse than Thursday's. Thursday was a complete bizarro loss- the Sox got their runs but made some unusual errors in the field that cost them- not something that will happen regularly.
Tonight was just sad. Wade Miller was not great tonight- he wasn't even good. He was average at best- bad command, falling behind in counts, and the Sox didn't capitalize like we've come to expect.

You can't be a reactionary after one loss, but this one is maddening.

Positives:
-El Duque was great, proving once again he is a big game pitcher.
-Politte, Cotts solid as usual

Negatives
-Everett. Ugh. Deserving of a day off tomorrow.
-Impatience at the plate. Slow down guys!!!!!
-Bullpen arms (Vizcaino and Marte specifically) have a bad tendency to give up the HR ball
-Contreras goes tomorrow. He's usually the opposite of Duque and does not rise to the occasion in these situations. Let's see what we get tomorrow...in 100 degree heat. (Too bad quick-paced Buehrle is not pitching, as he would get his guys in the dugout to cool off faster!)

SOXSINCE'70
07-23-2005, 09:08 PM
Ugly day for the offense

we had so many chances to score

This was "fugly".Not just ugly, f 'in ugly.
A great start by El Duque wasted.Too many chances to score
wasted and the team made Wade Miller look like Roy Oswalt.:(: :(: :(:

A piss poor game offensively.

The sky ain't falling.The teams play again tomorrow.
Ozzie, please DH Dye and let Gload play first.PLEASE!!!

owensmouth
07-23-2005, 09:08 PM
Obviously, it's not his fault. I'd still like to see him get one hit, just one, with RISP and 2 outs.
Everybody pounds Konerko, but at least he hit the damn ball. Everette struck out on a ridiculous low inside pitch and he gets a free pass. Geeze

SoxEd
07-23-2005, 09:09 PM
Getting the first two on in the 9th, nobody out, double play, knife in the chest. 30 games above .500 doesnt make beating themselves any easier to watch.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it does.

My intended point is that we lost one game tonight, with a weakened lineup, against last year's World Champions.

As an Englishman who watches Cricket, I've seen enough of my team beating itself (e.g. today, against World Champions Australia) over the years to dislike it intensely, but I'm not going to let today's fubar hitting get me overly down...

It isn't the end of the world, and we can get back at Boston tomorow to level this series.

mdep524
07-23-2005, 09:09 PM
I'm surprised they didn't put Gload in for PK in the 9th to run. With how slow PK is, you would have thought it would have been a great opportunity to get into the game. There's a good chance any other baserunner gets a double out of Paulie's single, and/or goes to third from first/second on AJ's bloop. I'm tired of Paulie's lack of speed being an excuse for poor baserunning. When he's on base, the guy takes the WORST, shortest secondary lead I have ever seen. Considering he has no make up speed at all, he needs to be taking much bigger leads to get a good jump. It cost us a run last night in the 4th inning, and it didn't help us again tonight.

TomParrish79
07-23-2005, 09:11 PM
it happens, hopefully we bounce back tomorrow and split the series.

SABRSox
07-23-2005, 09:16 PM
To each their own. I don't care about the regular season anymore. Haven't since we were 12 games up or whatever it was.

We're in the playoffs.

So lets spend the next couple of months playng like it, OK?

Yeah, let's play every game like it's our last so we can go into the real playoffs exhausted and beat up, like in 2000. Sounds like a real solid game plan.

I can't believe you'd want to boil down the entire season into the microcosm of a series with the Boston Red Sox. I have no problem with being upset over a loss, but to suggest negating what this team has done over the course of this season because they can't take 3 of 4 from the Red Sox in July is plain idiocy.

What do you do? You go out tomorrow and try to get a split. Then you take this experience and try to learn from it, so come October should we come up against this team, we can go out and get the 4 of 7.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3089&stc=1
Dark Clouds rolling in tonight...

tschneid83
07-23-2005, 09:16 PM
There's a good chance any other baserunner gets a double out of Paulie's single, and/or goes to third from first/second on AJ's bloop. I'm tired of Paulie's lack of speed being an excuse for poor baserunning. When he's on base, the guy takes the WORST, shortest secondary lead I have ever seen. Considering he has no make up speed at all, he needs to be taking much bigger leads to get a good jump. It cost us a run last night in the 4th inning, and it didn't help us again tonight.

even though he is slow and as slow as slow gets...... when you are that slow you need to take every chance you can to get just a little closer to home plate.... we talk about little things that this team needs to do and this is one of them (not just konerko). we are not playing like the same team that we had the first couple weeks of the season. We had something to prove with everyone having us 3rd or 4th in the division and to me we still have something to prove. We need to prove we are the best team in MLB which we are and will continue to be.....lets get them tom

Cowhead418
07-23-2005, 09:17 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it does.

My intended point is that we lost one game tonight, with a weakened lineup, against last year's World Champions.

As an Englishman who watches Cricket, I've seen enough of my team beating itself (e.g. today, against World Champions Australia) over the years to dislike it intensely, but I'm not going to let today's fubar hitting get me overly down...

It isn't the end of the world, and we can get back at Boston tomorow to level this series.
I'm over the loss already but I hate the excuse that "we lost to the world champs of last year so it's ok". The Red Sox are an inferior team to us meaning that we should beat them. I'll be ok with a split however.

SpringfldFan
07-23-2005, 09:18 PM
S..L..U..M..P

Yes, the Sox are slumping now. They will have trouble tomorrow and probably have to scratch and claw against KC after that. It is called a slump and the Sox and us fans have to grit our teeth and bear it until it ends. It was inevitable and if it has to happen this is about the best time for it. It gives the Sox a chance to deal with adversity and hard times and find out how to make do with their "B" game when they have to. It also gives management a chance to see where the weaknesses are and the great thing is that it is still before the trade deadline so KW can make moves based what he sees. Rather then try to predict where the team might need help in the future, KW can now see firsthand what he needs to address.

It may be a tough week or two, but with the playoffs basically assured, this really could be for the best

SFF

Cowhead418
07-23-2005, 09:21 PM
Wade Miller pitched like he wanted the Sox hitters to pound him. He was really that bad, especially the first three innings. The game was lost after Everett and Konerko failed to come through with the bases loaded.

tschneid83
07-23-2005, 09:21 PM
Yeah, let's play every game like it's our last so we can go into the real playoffs exhausted and beat up, like in 2000. Sounds like a real solid game plan.

I can't believe you'd want to boil down the entire season into the microcosm of a series with the Boston Red Sox. I have no problem with being upset over a loss, but to suggest negating what this team has done over the course of this season because they can't take 3 of 4 from the Red Sox in July is plain idiocy.

What do you do? You go out tomorrow and try to get a split. Then you take this experience and try to learn from it, so come October should we come up against this team, we can go out and get the 4 of 7.


Dark Clouds rolling in tonight...



This has nothing to do with the BoSox at all for me just a time when it seems we do not have the same team we did when we were underdogs. I could care less if we were playing boston, yankees, royals, or tampa bay..... we are the best team in baseball and it will stay that way b/c for the first half we played baseball how it is supposed to be played and we are slowly creeping away from that but we will soon get back to our old ways.

StillMissOzzie
07-23-2005, 09:22 PM
Blown opportunities and too many freakish bad breaks...

1) The stolen base by Pods that wasn't
2) That play when Konerko was "forced out" at 2nd and Cora dropped the ball in transition - never mind that he was nowhere near the bag to get the force call in the first place!
3) Crazy Carl going down swinging, twice, IIRC, with runners on base. he's been a clutch hitter so many times already this season, but Miller made him look bad both times.
4) Manny Ramirez throwin' some leather in the 9th - MANNY RAMIREZ? *****!

Let's get the split tomorrow.

SMO
:angry:

Foulke You
07-23-2005, 09:24 PM
We have some key injuries to work through right now (Dye, Thomas, Hermanson)but we still have a very good chance at getting a split tomorrow against Arroyo. Oh, and btw everyone, we still have an 11 game lead in the division. Deep breaths, tomorrow is a new day.:D:

mdep524
07-23-2005, 09:27 PM
Konerko's average with RISP was .225 (.140 with 2 outs) coming into tonight. Again he was unproductive with runners on tonight. Why does he have to bat clean up every night? He hits for good power and decent average with nobody on, he would do just as well as the number 6 hitter. Perhaps a line up like this...

Podsednik LF
Iguchi 2B
Rowand CF
Everett DH
Dye RF
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

Suggesting changes after one bad game is "reactionary," but after 90-some games I think it is fair to suggest this.

SpringfldFan
07-23-2005, 09:29 PM
I have no problem with being upset over a loss, but to suggest negating what this team has done over the course of this season because they can't take 3 of 4 from the Red Sox in July is plain idiocy.


Well, how about if I see them not winning 3 of 4 against Boston and raise you by them not winning 2 of 3 against Detroit. The hand isn't looking so good now.

Anyway, no they won't do jack in the playoffs playing like this, but they will turn it around...eventually.

SFF

PaleHoseGeorge
07-23-2005, 09:32 PM
Playing well in July has no bearing on playing well in October. The Twins couldn't even sweep Detroit today. Between now and the end of September that's all that matters for our Sox.

For those of you attaching phony significance to this loss, do yourselves a favor and take the next 2-1/2 months off. You have absolutely NOTHING to gain from watching the Sox. You can't magically change the calendar and make October suddenly appear. Sox wins over Boston in July won't alleviate your angst next October no matter how much you would deny the fact this evening. You're kidding nobody but yourselves.

In short, you've set yourselves up for failure. In fact I'm afraid many of you are too ignorant to even realize you've done it to yourselves. You do this after every Sox loss... some of you for years now. Truly scary.
:o:

You're miserable, and furthermore you DESERVE to be miserable. Most rational posters know to avoid the lot of you cutting up after a Sox loss. So enjoy your misery in each others arms with your very own thread.

:kukoo:

SpringfldFan
07-23-2005, 09:39 PM
Sox wins over Boston in July won't alleviate your angst next October no matter how much you would deny the fact this evening. You're kidding nobody but yourselves.



July to October? Hell, we are seeing these reactions from Friday to Saturday!

CYGarland20
07-23-2005, 09:45 PM
Playing well in July has no bearing on playing well in October. The Twins couldn't even sweep Detroit today. Between now and the end of September that's all that matters for our Sox.

For those of you attaching phoney significance to this loss, do yourselves a favor and take the next 2-1/2 months off. You have absolutely NOTHING to gain from watching the Sox. You can't magically change the calendar and make October suddenly appear. Sox wins over Boston in July won't alleviate your angst next October no matter how much you would deny the fact this evening. You're kidding nobody but yourselves.

In short, you've set yourselves up for failure. In fact I'm afraid many of you are too ignorant to even realize you've done it to yourselves. You do this after every Sox loss... some of you for years now. Truly scary.
:o:

You're miserable, and furthermore you DESERVE to be miserable. Most rational posters know to avoid the lot of you cutting up after a Sox loss. So enjoy your misery in each others arms with your very own thread.

:kukoo: I agree that people shouldn't get too bent out of shape after a loss, but it's the way we've been losing lately that is very frustrating. We should have won all 3 of these games. Thursday night we threw the game away w/ poor defense, and tonite Miller was throwing meatball after meatball right down the middle and we couldn't do anything with em. But the most frustrating thing of all is that we get a chance to prove we are the best team in baseball against the Red Sox, and we $hit all over ourselves :(:

DaveIsHere
07-23-2005, 09:49 PM
I have told my wife a lot, when the Sox lose they always have a chance to win it in the end. A lot of their loses have us bringing the tying or winning run to the plate, like tonight when Rowand was up. They always give themselves a chance, and come through most of the time. Just not tonight. Now time to redeem the Sox on MVP on XBOX Live, look me up....DaveIsHere

DickAllen72
07-23-2005, 09:50 PM
Everybody pounds Konerko, but at least he hit the damn ball. Everette struck out on a ridiculous low inside pitch and he gets a free pass. Geeze

Everett had a bad game today but he's better than Konerko and Konerko, the Sox highest paid position player, makes twice as much as Carl. Carl has to compete for his AB's while Konerko is automatically slotted in the cleanup spot every game. Still, Carl has about the same RBI's in limited playing time as Konerko.

Carl is better in the clutch, tonight notwithstanding.

Gload should be starting at 1B a good percentage of the time, and let Konerko rotate at DH with Carl.

DickAllen72
07-23-2005, 09:52 PM
Nice game by El Duque. Good to have him back! :gulp:

PeteWard
07-23-2005, 09:54 PM
You can NEVER count on him in a big situation. (to do somethin good)

I guess that's why he leads the team in RBIs

ChicagoHoosier
07-23-2005, 09:54 PM
What do you do? You go out tomorrow and try to get a split. Then you take this experience and try to learn from it, so come October should we come up against this team, we can go out and get the 4 of 7.

I think this says it best. I'm as frustrated as many of you posting the negative thoughts here, but we all were feeling great after the Cleveland series. I think we need to take our medicine, learn from our abnormally high number of mistakes defensively and offensively we've made in the past few games, and become a better team as a result of it.

Frustrating!!! But, I'm still optimistic. If this becomes a regular pattern, then we can worry.

MRKARNO
07-23-2005, 09:54 PM
Instead of ranting about this specific game, I would like to take this game to point out how awful our team is against righties. While the White Sox have been crushing lefties all year, the White Sox are 30/30 in the majors in AVG (.249) and OBP (.308) against right handed pitchers. The saving grace has been that they are 6th in HRs vs righties, but we can't put together lots of hits against right-handed pitching it seems. It's been all or nothing.

On the other hand, we have the 4th highest BA against lefties and 5th highest OBP.

I don't think there's much that Kenny can do about it, but to insist that Ozzie play Ross Gload more, taking away a fair amount of at bats from Carl Everett against righties. For a power hitter, Everett's OPS vs righties is awful, .747 with a .234 avg and .295 OBP. He has 11 HRs, but that just makes him the epitome of what we're doing wrong against righties: all or nothing. I think Gload could come in and contribute to the creation of some bigger innings with the occasional HRs here and there. He's up here; we might as well use him.

I really don't see the value in discussing today's ugly loss. There is no way that any team should have been shut out the way that the Boston pitchers pitched, and this game was just symptomatic of the White Sox major problems against right-handed pitchers the entire year.

mdep524
07-23-2005, 10:01 PM
Instead of ranting about this specific game, I would like to take this game to point out how awful our team is against righties. While the White Sox have been crushing lefties all year, the White Sox are 30/30 in the majors in AVG (.249) and OBP (.308) against right handed pitchers. The saving grace has been that they are 6th in HRs vs righties, but we can't put together lots of hits against right-handed pitching it seems. It's been all or nothing.

On the other hand, we have the 4th highest BA against lefties and 5th highest OBP.

I don't think there's much that Kenny can do about it, but to insist that Ozzie play Ross Gload more, taking away a fair amount of at bats from Carl Everett against righties. For a power hitter, Everett's OPS vs righties is awful, .747 with a .234 avg and .295 OBP. He has 11 HRs, but that just makes him the epitome of what we're doing wrong against righties: all or nothing. I think Gload could come in and contribute to the creation of some bigger innings with the occasional HRs here and there. He's up here; we might as well use him.

I really don't see the value in discussing today's ugly loss. There is no way that any team should have been shut out the way that the Boston pitchers pitched, and this game was just symptomatic of the White Sox major problems against right-handed pitchers the entire year. All good points, I agree. Also, how awesome is Bobby Jenks' K/9 ratio right now?? :drool: Awesome sig.

Podzilla_40
07-23-2005, 10:03 PM
The fact that El Duque pitched so well against a team so loaded makes me feel a lot better. We'll get shut down sometimes, it's the way of the game. A series in KC will really bring this team back and I think will give us some confidence going into the dreaded August stretch.

Edit: Not to mention the fact KW will make a deal that I think will change this team for the better, that either being a key arm (Guardado, Meche) or a good IF (Vizquel).

Fenway
07-23-2005, 10:04 PM
Ugly day for the offense

we had so many chances to score

We in a state of shock back here over Wade Miller tonite

Brian26
07-23-2005, 10:04 PM
There's a good chance any other baserunner gets a double out of Paulie's single, and/or goes to third from first/second on AJ's bloop. I'm tired of Paulie's lack of speed being an excuse for poor baserunning.

PK's run in that situation isn't important since we're down by 3 and need baserunners. I'm happy he stayed at first rather than trying to risk being called out at 2nd on a close play for the first out of the inning. Hawk wasn't blowing smoke up anyone's ass when he said Ramirez made a nice play and got the perfect bounce- because he actually did. The ball was smoked off the wall, and it's nothing but a long single. Again, it was meaningless whether he was at first or second, as the Sox needed to get the tying run to the plate.

mdep524
07-23-2005, 10:17 PM
PK's run in that situation isn't important since we're down by 3 and need baserunners. I'm happy he stayed at first rather than trying to risk being called out at 2nd on a close play for the first out of the inning. Hawk wasn't blowing smoke up anyone's ass when he said Ramirez made a nice play and got the perfect bounce- because he actually did. The ball was smoked off the wall, and it's nothing but a long single. Again, it was meaningless whether he was at first or second, as the Sox needed to get the tying run to the plate. True, except that Paulie's failure to take the extra base on his hit and then on AJ's created a DP situation for Aaron. A small thing tonight, as Aaron doesn't hit into that many DPs, but in general Paulie needs to get good, long jumps on those secondary leads for situations like Crede's single Friday night. There he was thrown out at the plate because of a horrible jump (inexcusable with 2 outs).

EdHerman12
07-23-2005, 10:35 PM
As Tony Soprano would say, "Ah....whatya gonna do?"..Great game by El Duque....when Pods gots called out at 2nd I had a bad feeling...BTW did anyone notice the dark haired Lady eating cotton candy which she eventually fed to the sharp dressed guy sitting next to her? I could've swore she's the former skin flick actress Seka......oh well :gulp:<----stay cool tomorrow guys! GO SOX!

cburns
07-23-2005, 10:41 PM
Well considering this was a big game, at least in the opinion of the fans and media I was impressed with the way El Duque pitched. He seems to rise to the occasion when the stakes are highest. Hopefully his shoulder doesnt explode down the stretch. I've been pleasantly surprised with the way our pitching staff has handled Boston so far this series. Buerhle had a bad outing, go figure, our only lefty against Boston does the worst. Our bullpen has been solid for the most part too. Having said that, I'm very worried about Contreras facing the Red Sox tomorrow. IIRC they have hit him very well in the past. Hopefully our bats wake up from their slumber and earn us a split of the series. All the games so far have been winnable..I won't go so far as to say we SHOULD have won all 3 games, but we COULD have won.

Jerome
07-23-2005, 10:50 PM
Everett had a bad game today but he's better than Konerko and Konerko, the Sox highest paid position player, makes twice as much as Carl. Carl has to compete for his AB's while Konerko is automatically slotted in the cleanup spot every game. Still, Carl has about the same RBI's in limited playing time as Konerko.

Carl is better in the clutch, tonight notwithstanding.

Gload should be starting at 1B a good percentage of the time, and let Konerko rotate at DH with Carl.

I think that Carl is better than Gload, why should we keep one of them on the bench? I'd rather see Gload in the OF filling in for Dye.

Jerome
07-23-2005, 10:52 PM
Instead of ranting about this specific game, I would like to take this game to point out how awful our team is against righties. While the White Sox have been crushing lefties all year, the White Sox are 30/30 in the majors in AVG (.249) and OBP (.308) against right handed pitchers. The saving grace has been that they are 6th in HRs vs righties, but we can't put together lots of hits against right-handed pitching it seems. It's been all or nothing.

On the other hand, we have the 4th highest BA against lefties and 5th highest OBP.

I don't think there's much that Kenny can do about it, but to insist that Ozzie play Ross Gload more, taking away a fair amount of at bats from Carl Everett against righties. For a power hitter, Everett's OPS vs righties is awful, .747 with a .234 avg and .295 OBP. He has 11 HRs, but that just makes him the epitome of what we're doing wrong against righties: all or nothing. I think Gload could come in and contribute to the creation of some bigger innings with the occasional HRs here and there. He's up here; we might as well use him.

I really don't see the value in discussing today's ugly loss. There is no way that any team should have been shut out the way that the Boston pitchers pitched, and this game was just symptomatic of the White Sox major problems against right-handed pitchers the entire year.

I stand corrected. Get Ross Gload in there!

mdep524
07-23-2005, 10:56 PM
Well considering this was a big game, at least in the opinion of the fans and media I was impressed with the way El Duque pitched. He seems to rise to the occasion when the stakes are highest. Hopefully his shoulder doesnt explode down the stretch. I've been pleasantly surprised with the way our pitching staff has handled Boston so far this series. Buerhle had a bad outing, go figure, our only lefty against Boston does the worst. Our bullpen has been solid for the most part too. Having said that, I'm very worried about Contreras facing the Red Sox tomorrow. IIRC they have hit him very well in the past. Hopefully our bats wake up from their slumber and earn us a split of the series. All the games so far have been winnable..I won't go so far as to say we SHOULD have won all 3 games, but we COULD have won. ...and Buehrle's outing wasn't really that bad- 6 IP, 3 ER, some bad defense behind him and some good opposite field base hits by Boston. Three big :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: to our starters so far this series. Sorry your fates weren't better, MB and Duque.

gogosox35
07-23-2005, 10:56 PM
There is so much negativity on this board it is truly amazing. First of all, if the Red Sox do in fact take 3 of 4 tomorrow, it will not mean a thing when playoff time rolls around. Fact is we are playing hard this series, we just are in a little bit of a slump, no team plays well throughout the entire season. But fact is we're still 6-4 since the all star break. I completely agree with Hawk when he says we have a better pitching rotation, a better bullpen, and better defense than Boston. Regardless of what ends up in this series, we are the better team, and nothing will convince me otherwise.

That being said, I still believe the sox need another quality bullpen arm (Wagner, Guardado), and a shortstop (Vizquel). Uribe's .260 OBP just isn't cutting it. El Duque is a big game pitcher and is perfect for that #4 spot in the postseason rotation.

So we can calm down a little bit with the negativity and ride out our "slump", because when we get this thing rolling again we'll be one load come August, September, and most importantly October.

Lastly, did I miss something when Timo Perez is better than Ross Gload. This makes NO SENSE at all. PLAY ROSS GLOAD if Dye isn't starting!

Lip Man 1
07-23-2005, 11:00 PM
Just a few comments...

1. Welcome to October baseball when the pitching tends to limit runs and chances. When you get those chances you damn well better convert or you generally get beat.

2. At least Hernandez pitched well. As Karno said in another thread perhaps this performance convinces Kenny one way or another on trying to acquire another starter or if he should turn his attention to other areas (bullpen, hitting, back up infielder ???)

3. The offense has been in a funk since Monday. To their credit they had big innings to win games Monday and Friday but overall it's been a bad week. Telling point should be the Kansas City series. They should break out of it although I don't expect a sweep. To win 12 straight against one club is asking a lot.

4. I'd dearly love to get a split tomorrow. Hell as far as I'm concerned the Sox can play .500 the rest of the way and they'll coast into October. A split would shut up those arrogant Red Sox fans, silence some of the Chicago media just itching to sharpen their pen's for Monday columns and restore some momentum. Only trouble...Contreras is pitching. Will the good Jose show up (Cleveland) or the bad one (Detroit)? Your guess is as good as mine.

Just a bad night's effort.

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
07-23-2005, 11:06 PM
There is so much negativity on this board it is truly amazing.

Don't be so quick to judge the entire board. There are certain imbeciles who have used this message board as their therapist's couch for years now. They think WSI exists solely for them to pour out their psychosis for the rest of us to listen to.

It's utterly predictable after every Sox loss. Same dumbasses everytime, with a few newbies mixed in for good measure.

The oldtime Dark Clouds have lost all credibility. As for the newbies, most of them walk a fine line from being banned. Psychiatrists make well over $100 per hour listening to their ****. We're not sitting around listening to it for free.

Dark clouds beware. Post stupid **** at your own risk.

balke
07-23-2005, 11:08 PM
Sox pitched well, Boston didn't. 3 shutouts in a season 3-5 ain't bad I guess if the Sox can keep it that low. Hitting was there a little bit, they just didn't capitalize. I think Jermaine would've made a difference tonight with some of the crap Miller was throwing. Get well soon JD (No rip on Timo there, he's been good overall this series. Jermaine changes a lot of things that game in the middle of the lineup though IMO.)

One game, I would've liked to have seen Paulie held up at 3rd and not thrown out on Manny's arm. THis game, I didn't like leaving Paulie in without a pinch runner. It was AJ that got Doubled up (And possibly he too could've been pinch ran for) but Ozuna probably makes it to 3rd on that blooper by A.J., would've kept the rally alive. Let's hope to see better everything tomorrow. I'm afraid Ortiz is due for a big game, and I'm hopeful Contreras is due for an even bigger one.

cheeses_h_rice
07-23-2005, 11:10 PM
I was at the game tonight, and just one comment: there sure were a lot of "Red Sox fans" polluting my section, all with brand new (or circa October 2004 and newer) jerseys and hats on.

Interesting.

:rolleyes:

StockdaleForVeep
07-23-2005, 11:12 PM
Tough loss but overall a fantastic game, on both sides. Great pitching and defense.

People may flame me for that but hell, im a baseball fan after being a whitesox fan

I still proclaim my fave sox game of all time being 2000 redsox vs whitesox when pedro and sirotka both threw complete game shutouts, only sirotka got the L due to an error on valentin i believe

Foulke You
07-23-2005, 11:13 PM
4. A split would shut up those arrogant Red Sox fans, silence some of the Chicago media just itching to sharpen their pen's for Monday columns and restore some momentum.

Lip
Amen to that. We need to silence the chirping Red Sox fans. I read over the "Sons of Sam Horn" game threads for this series and the White Sox or "ChiSoxers" as they call us get little respect from most of the posters there. Many there attribute our great record as fattening up on AL Central teams. (Didn't the Indians beat them up fairly recently?:?: ) Lots of complaining about Hawk Harrelson (for those who watched on MLB Extra Innings) They can't stand Carl Everett (no surprise given the history there) and they also were saying that Garland looked "unimpressive" to them on Friday and it was just Red Sox hitters failing to adjust to the inside heat...funny, I thought pitching inside and keeping hitters off balanced equaled good pitching but what do I know? I'm merely a lowly midwesterner here in Chicago.:rolleyes: In any case, it made for quite an annoying read and enough to REALLY want me to see us stick it to em tomorrow. C'mon Contreras! We need you.

ndu3t4
07-23-2005, 11:20 PM
I still proclaim my fave sox game of all time being 2000 redsox vs whitesox when pedro and sirotka both threw complete game shutouts, only sirotka got the L due to an error on valentin i believe

I remember that game. Things got crazy in the late innings because The umpire gave Pedro an extra five feet off the plate, something like 3 of the White Sox coaches got ejected, it was a crazy game.

I didn't catch the later inning of tonites game, but I knew things were gonna go bad after Scotty came off the bag. It was great to see Orlando pitch well, we're gonna need him come October. Let's finish the series strong and then bring up our confidence against KC.

gogosox35
07-23-2005, 11:21 PM
Oh I'm not judging the entire board by any means, most people here are knowledgeable which is a huge reason why I love sox fans and can't stand a large portion of cub fans. It just seems that people end like the season is over after every loss and every win was just supposed to happen. Teams aren't going to lay down to us with a record like we have, we have to earn everything we get. I think I can safely say this is the best White Sox team of my lifetime (20 years) and I'm loving the ride.

chisoxmike
07-23-2005, 11:30 PM
Lets hope we can split, god lets hope.


Anyway, this team all week has been going for long ball or bust. That has got to end. Stop swinging for the fenses!!!!!

We ran ourselves out of two innings, and should've come through when we had bases loaded and one out. Pathetic. To get shut down by Wade Miller is downright bad.

Chisox003
07-23-2005, 11:31 PM
Amen to that. We need to silence the chirping Red Sox fans. I read over the "Sons of Sam Horn" game threads for this series and the White Sox or "ChiSoxers" as they call us get little respect from most of the posters there. Many there attribute our great record as fattening up on AL Central teams. (Didn't the Indians beat them up fairly recently?:?: ) Lots of complaining about Hawk Harrelson (for those who watched on MLB Extra Innings) They can't stand Carl Everett (no surprise given the history there) and they also were saying that Garland looked "unimpressive" to them on Friday and it was just Red Sox hitters failing to adjust to the inside heat...funny, I thought pitching inside and keeping hitters off balanced equaled good pitching but what do I know? I'm merely a lowly midwesterner here in Chicago.:rolleyes: In any case, it made for quite an annoying read and enough to REALLY want me to see us stick it to em tomorrow. C'mon Contreras! We need you.

Oh man, if you havent been to a game this series, its unbarable....

Sawx fans have this swagger, this "Ya, we're better than you, what are you going to do about it" arrogance to them

Before last season, Boston was all about the "Woe is us, we've been losing forever...Feel sorry for us!!"...But now, wow

I knew I wouldnt be fond of Red Sox fans, but now that I've come into contact with a lot of them....Enough's enough, get this series over with and ship them back to their ****ty city

chisoxmike
07-23-2005, 11:34 PM
Oh man, if you havent been to a game this series, its unbarable....

Sawx fans have this swagger, this "Ya, we're better than you, what are you going to do about it" arrogance to them

Before last season, Boston was all about the "Woe is us, we've been losing forever...Feel sorry for us!!"...But now, wow

I knew I wouldnt be fond of Red Sox fans, but now that I've come into contact with a lot of them....Enough's enough, get this series over with and ship them back to their ****ty city


My god, I went today and last night. These people need to look who has the better record. Last night, this women got up after the Sox took a 8-2 lead and said "You guys can have one."

I replied "We can also have a better record."

She said" Hey when was the last time you won the World Series?"

I mean COME ON!!!!!! I had nothing to say to that. The fans around me started yelling at her and her boyfriend saying things that could get me banned from the board. Ha.

SoxSpeed22
07-23-2005, 11:36 PM
After watchin "Baseball Tonight" I realized that we can play this f***in' horrible and still play close to a team like the Red Sox. If Contreras shows up, then that could be a split.
On a side note: I appreciate how cocky Boston fans have gotten ever since the Yankees and the Cardinals rolled over to them. It's obvious to everyone here why I never wanted them to win.

DickAllen72
07-23-2005, 11:44 PM
Most Red Sox players look like bums. They have got to be the ugliest team in the majors, that's for sure! Maybe we can take up a collection for some razors, soap and haircuts for them. :smile:

Too bad they traded for Graffanino--he doesn't fit in with those scummy lookin' freaks.

I'd rather see the Orioles or even the hated Yankees win that division over the Red Sux.

Rocklive99
07-23-2005, 11:48 PM
Looks like everyone is going for the long ball lately, and we're living and dieing by it.

LOL, I Tivoed this and am currently in the 5th, and the DJ jinx lives on. "I don't get this stuff about Manny Ramirez being a defensive liability" *Iguchi hits the next pitch into LF and Manny completly misplays/judges it* At least it's good when he uses it to our advantage ;)

JB98
07-24-2005, 12:06 AM
True, except that Paulie's failure to take the extra base on his hit and then on AJ's created a DP situation for Aaron. A small thing tonight, as Aaron doesn't hit into that many DPs, but in general Paulie needs to get good, long jumps on those secondary leads for situations like Crede's single Friday night. There he was thrown out at the plate because of a horrible jump (inexcusable with 2 outs).

I'm not buying any of this. Paulie deserves to be criticized for his lack of hitting with RISP, but his being thrown out at the plate was Cora's fault. I have no idea why Paulie's failure to take an extra base on AJ's hit is an issue for you. He was not representing the tying run, and even if he takes third, the ball Aaron hit is still a rally-killing DP. Who cares?

I'm surprised people think Ross Gload is the savior. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ross in the lineup tomorrow, but IMO, what we really need is for JD to get back in there. Perez isn't giving us much. And with Frank being injured, I'd like to see Rowand hitting in the three hole.

Very encouraging outing by El Duque. I'm telling you guys, he'll be there when we need him most. KW doesn't need to get another starter. The rotation is the least of my worries.

This has just been a frustrating homestand overall. We're not playing well. Hopefully, JC will step up for us tomorrow. Let's get another winning streak going.

JB98
07-24-2005, 12:07 AM
Most Red Sox players look like bums. They have got to be the ugliest team in the majors, that's for sure! Maybe we can take up a collection for some razors, soap and haircuts for them. :smile:

Too bad they traded for Graffanino--he doesn't fit in with those scummy lookin' freaks.

I'd rather see the Orioles or even the hated Yankees win that division over the Red Sux.

Other than the Twins, Boston is my least favorite team in the AL. I wish them nothing but failure. I just hate them and their fans.

DumpJerry
07-24-2005, 12:57 AM
:angry:. There goes my chance for a perfect July at the 'ole ballpark. Maybe August will be perfect. Even though this was the 4th loss I've been to out of 19 games total, that fact does not make it easier to swallow. I wanted sooooooooooooooooo badly to shut up the Red Sox fans around me, especially the ferret-faced BoSox fan in front of me who kept yelling about how much he hated Everett, called Carl a child beater and kept cursing when the "fat (censored) beer vendor" won't come by to sell him beer even though there were other beer vendors all around. I wanted to him he was cut off...... He left during the 8th inning. That was 9 innings after the Sox offense left.

Vernam
07-24-2005, 01:36 AM
I was at the game tonight, and just one comment: there sure were a lot of "Red Sox fans" polluting my section, all with brand new (or circa October 2004 and newer) jerseys and hats on.
When the "Let's Go Red Sox" cheer got going, some guys in our section would try drowning it out with "Part Time Red Sox," as in Cub fans posing as such. Those same guys kept yelling "Big Mami" at David "Big Papi" Ortiz. This was about the only bright spot all night.

El Duque was inspiring, even though I wanted to scream when he walked Ortiz w/ two outs in the first. I heard later on the broadcast that Hawk and DJ were saying the same thing -- gotta make him swing w/ Ramirez on-deck.

Miller seemed to have nothing. When he skipped in that 2-1 curveball, Konerko and everyone in the park should have known the 3-1 would be a fastball. He got it and did nothing. It might be second-guessing, but I wish he'd just driven the ball up the middle with the bases loaded; instead, it looked like he went for the gusto and came up flat.

Regarding the Big Picture, some seem to think we're embarrassing ourselves on the national stage, but I prefer to think we're laying the groundwork for Boston to take us for granted in October. A split sounds awfully good all of a sudden.

VC

Mr. White Sox
07-24-2005, 01:45 AM
Konerko is .135 RISP 2-Out. I think it's time to give Ross a start, and having Dye out in this series has really hurt, especially when you consider PK and CE's current slumps. I expected much worse from El Duque tonight; he was outstanding considering the circumstances. It was frustrating seeing Rowand GIDP there, as he has been so great this season in those situations, but you can't expect everything from him. It's even worse to see El Duque get the L and Miller get the W, as their respective pitching performances should show OH with the W and WM with the L. Meh, split would be awesome here, and I hope Contreras can overcome his past BoSox demons. Oh, and I am starting to despise Red Sox fans. I used to just dislike them, but now I'm starting to hate them. Oh yeah, and...stop walking David Ortiz!!! :o:

JB98
07-24-2005, 01:49 AM
Konerko is .135 RISP 2-Out. I think it's time to give Ross a start, and having Dye out in this series has really hurt, especially when you consider PK and CE's current slumps. I expected much worse from El Duque tonight; he was outstanding considering the circumstances. It was frustrating seeing Rowand GIDP there, as he has been so great this season in those situations, but you can't expect everything from him. It's even worse to see El Duque get the L and Miller get the W, as their respective pitching performances should show OH with the W and WM with the L. Meh, split would be awesome here, and I hope Contreras can overcome his past BoSox demons. Oh, and I am starting to despise Red Sox fans. I used to just dislike them, but now I'm starting to hate them. Oh yeah, and...stop walking David Ortiz!!! :o:

With each passing day, more and more people are starting to understand why I cheer for the Yankees to beat the Red Sox. Quite frankly, Red Sox fans are just bad people.

shoota
07-24-2005, 03:08 AM
I went out after the game and flipped on the car radio at 9:59-10:02 pm. I was listening to am1000, and I heard some female sports talk lady discussing the Sox and Red Sox. She said something like, "Oh the White Sox are not as good as their record. They're overachievers. You look at that pitching staff and they are playing way over their heads. Jon Garland is overachieving. Mark Buehrle is overachieving."

As I was about to put my hands through the radio and choke her, she switched topics to, go figure, more New England talk. She starts discussing the Patriots and Teddy Bruschi. That's when I realized it must have been a national show, so I turned on am670.

These two local guys were echoing that cooze's anti-Sox talking points by saying stuff like, "KW needs to add to the bullpen because these are the types of games they'll play in the playoffs." He doesn't realize that the Sox lost one game to Boston due to uncharacteristic poor defense and another because of silent bats. The bullpen has been good all series and season long. At that point in the show, a caller defending the Sox said, " Bottom line, the Sox are still the best team in baseball." The hosts disputed that saying that, "No, the Sox have the best record in baseball, they aren't the best team." Notice he said it as a fact, and not something like, "Despite their best-in-baseball record, the Sox aren't necessarily the best team."

Would someone who is a regular sports talk listener tell me the names of these three people so I can never listen to them again?

Dan H
07-24-2005, 04:09 AM
what if we take 2 of 4 from boston, then what happens?


I heard Hawk say something like JUUUUUST missed it like 30 times today:(:

I am tired of Hawk saying the Sox just missed. In baseball, an inch can be a mile.

I will definately feel better if the Sox split this series. But if Williams can make a trade to help this offense, I hope he does it.

mcp5185
07-24-2005, 04:12 AM
I don't get to see many games, but this was by far the most frustrating loss of the season. I got such a bad feeling in the 1st when both Pods and Gooch were thrown out on the bases. Miller gave us so many opportunities, and we just couldn't capitalize. We led off each of the first four innings with a hit and couldn't do anything else. Rowand has been clutch all year with risp but that dp killed us. Not to mention he should of gidp in the 2nd if not for a bobble by both Mueller and Cora.


With that being said, I feel good about our chances of getting the split tommorow. I like our chances against Arroyo, he has slowed down after his very good start to the year. In his last 9 starts, he is 4-3, and he has also given up 9 HRs on that span. Hopefully we will see the Contreras who shut down the Indians, not the one who got roughed up by Detroit.

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 04:34 AM
Rowand has been clutch all year with risp but that dp killed us. Not to mention he should of gidp in the 2nd if not for a bobble by both Mueller and Cora.

I hate seeing him swing at the first pitch in a situation like that. As soon as he came up I called him swinging at the first pitch and hitting into a DP, and there it was. Maybe it's just me, but I think Aaron becomes a better hitter when he has two strikes on him. He appears to be too aggressive at times and it hurts him.

gobears1987
07-24-2005, 09:13 AM
Anyone who judges our playoff prospects based on this game is a certified moron. We were without our 2 best hitters, Frank and Dye. Imagine what we would've done with men on and those 2 up.

Jerko
07-24-2005, 09:45 AM
Two things bothered me early in the game. Bunting with one on and nobody out while Miller was walking and wild pitching his way to possible defeat, and then Everett swinging at the first pitch after a walk, a WP, and another walk. How many batters did Miller actually retire the first 3 innings? 4? Then we have to bunt with the leadoff man on in the 3rd? I just don't like that call. Ugly ass game but another one the Sox could have won, just like Thursday. They'll get it back together soon.

Jurr
07-24-2005, 09:46 AM
I don't get to see many games, but this was by far the most frustrating loss of the season. I got such a bad feeling in the 1st when both Pods and Gooch were thrown out on the bases. Miller gave us so many opportunities, and we just couldn't capitalize. We led off each of the first four innings with a hit and couldn't do anything else. Rowand has been clutch all year with risp but that dp killed us. Not to mention he should of gidp in the 2nd if not for a bobble by both Mueller and Cora.


With that being said, I feel good about our chances of getting the split tommorow. I like our chances against Arroyo, he has slowed down after his very good start to the year. In his last 9 starts, he is 4-3, and he has also given up 9 HRs on that span. Hopefully we will see the Contreras who shut down the Indians, not the one who got roughed up by Detroit.
This was definitely NOT the most frustrating loss of the season. Name any of the Oakland games at the beginning of the season (the Wendlestedt debacles) or the Texas loss (after AJ Pierzynski hits a grand salami in the first inning). The Mark Prior/ Brandon McCarthy duel? The Crede muffed play/ Ramirez homer from three days ago? The only thing that makes this last loss feel like the worst is because it's the latest. All of the losses I've mentioned have been followed in later days by 3, 4, 5, or 8 game winning streaks. I'm not concerned about one loss like this. I don't like the fact that the Sox are 10-9 this month. However, we all know that a slump was going to come and is in fact here. There's been too many little bumps and bruises for the team to come out every day with the same fire. It's the official dog days. Hermie's hurt, Dye's been out, Frank's been banged up for a while now (he says he was struggling through pain and just now had to finally sit), Crede has been sitting, and El Duque has been sidelined. This hasn't been an easy stretch of teams to face, much less dealing with injuries. Everything will be fine with the Sox.

LuvSox
07-24-2005, 09:53 AM
:tomatoaward.

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 10:22 AM
The thing that bugged me about this game (as opposed to playoff chances and all that) is the early baserunning gaffes. Pods and Iguchi took us out of a possible big inning right at the start. But, as they say, **** happens. We just need to go get 'em today.

peeonwrigley
07-24-2005, 10:26 AM
I would really like to see the White Sox get on the board first today. Seems like there's been lots of coming from behind lately. Not that the team plays any worse or better based on if they're winning or losing early on, its just for my personal comfort.

cbone
07-24-2005, 10:43 AM
The thing that bugged me about this game (as opposed to playoff chances and all that) is the early baserunning gaffes. Pods and Iguchi took us out of a possible big inning right at the start. But, as they say, **** happens. We just need to go get 'em today.

Yep, perfectly put. Those killed us. Gotta jump on em early today! Go Sox!!!!!!

JB98
07-24-2005, 11:01 AM
I went out after the game and flipped on the car radio at 9:59-10:02 pm. I was listening to am1000, and I heard some female sports talk lady discussing the Sox and Red Sox. She said something like, "Oh the White Sox are not as good as their record. They're overachievers. You look at that pitching staff and they are playing way over their heads. Jon Garland is overachieving. Mark Buehrle is overachieving."

As I was about to put my hands through the radio and choke her, she switched topics to, go figure, more New England talk. She starts discussing the Patriots and Teddy Bruschi. That's when I realized it must have been a national show, so I turned on am670.

These two local guys were echoing that cooze's anti-Sox talking points by saying stuff like, "KW needs to add to the bullpen because these are the types of games they'll play in the playoffs." He doesn't realize that the Sox lost one game to Boston due to uncharacteristic poor defense and another because of silent bats. The bullpen has been good all series and season long. At that point in the show, a caller defending the Sox said, " Bottom line, the Sox are still the best team in baseball." The hosts disputed that saying that, "No, the Sox have the best record in baseball, they aren't the best team." Notice he said it as a fact, and not something like, "Despite their best-in-baseball record, the Sox aren't necessarily the best team."

Would someone who is a regular sports talk listener tell me the names of these three people so I can never listen to them again?

We'll find out who the best team in baseball is in October. Maybe it is the Sox. Maybe it isn't. You can't draw any conclusions in July. No one in the media, local or national, understands that.

This is what I hate about losing a big series. It makes people talk bad about our team and try to discredit everything we've accomplished. According to the pundits, all 63 of our victories are against subpar teams, and Boston is the first good team we've played all year.

Each of our 96 games this season were played against major-league competition, and we've won roughly two-thirds of them. That's the bottom line.

jabrch
07-24-2005, 11:13 AM
The thing that bugged me about this game (as opposed to playoff chances and all that) is the early baserunning gaffes. Pods and Iguchi took us out of a possible big inning right at the start. But, as they say, **** happens. We just need to go get 'em today.

We have been aggressive on the basepaths all season. I know there is a difference between aggressive and stupid - but sometimes you do have to pay the piper for running and pressing it as much as we do. Saturday was that day.

CubKilla
07-24-2005, 11:21 AM
The thing that bugged me about this game (as opposed to playoff chances and all that) is the early baserunning gaffes. Pods and Iguchi took us out of a possible big inning right at the start. But, as they say, **** happens. We just need to go get 'em today.

Podsednik was safe. And in the second inning, Cora never had the bag when he dropped the ball in the DP transfer so Konerko was safe too.

I'm just wondering what's gonna have to happen for Ozzie to go out and raise some hell to the point where he gets thrown out of a game. After 2 blown calls that even Ray Charles would have got right by the same umpire in consecutive innings, Ozzie just sits in the dugout. Ugh.....

I'd have pulled a McClendon if I was Ozzie and literally "stole" 2B considering it obviously was just there for decoration to that umpire.

Vernam
07-24-2005, 11:30 AM
Podsednik was safe. And in the second inning, Cora never had the bag when he dropped the ball in the DP transfer so Konerko was safe too.

I'm just wondering what's gonna have to happen for Ozzie to go out and raise some hell to the point where he gets thrown out of a game. After 2 blown calls that even Ray Charles would have got right by the same umpire in consecutive innings, Ozzie just sits in the dugout. Ugh.....

I'd have pulled a McClendon if I was Ozzie and literally "stole" 2B considering it obviously was just there for decoration to that umpire.
What p*ssed me off about those two plays is that each fell into the category of "the umps never call that." They never call guys out on head-first slides if they momentarily lose contact with the base after beating the throw. Except Pods, except yesterday. (Not that I think he did lose contact.) And they never call the runner safe on a force out when a fielder drops the ball taking it out of the glove. Of course, the Sox got no exception. There was actually a second "never call it" aspect to that play, because Cora wasn't even in contact with the base when he did/didn't have control of the ball. :angry:

One thing that's surprised me from the beginning about Ozzie is that he is very restrained w/ the umps. It's smart, because they find ways to settle scores with managers who routinely argue every blown call. That was one of Larussa's big shortcomings with the Sox, because the umps seemed to hate him. You could say that squeakier wheels get more calls in their favor, but I think it's the other way around, so long as the umps don't view you as a pushover. Which Ozzie is not . . .

VC

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 11:32 AM
We have been aggressive on the basepaths all season. I know there is a difference between aggressive and stupid - but sometimes you do have to pay the piper for running and pressing it as much as we do. Saturday was that day.

I didn't say anything contrary to this, but I'll elaborate a bit. Iguchi's mistake was more forgivable that Podsednik's in some ways. He got caught in between. That happens a lot. Podsednick was off the base after having it stolen. It could have been that he overslid. At any rate, that's a bigger mistake, imho.

But as I said, **** happens. It helped take us out of a game, not the season. Podsednik is a smart baserunner (You should have heard him expound Friday on how he goes about reading a pitcher. He could write a textbook.) I think Iguchi is, too. So don't take my comments as saying anything otherwise.

jabrch
07-24-2005, 11:47 AM
I didn't say anything contrary to this, but I'll elaborate a bit. Iguchi's mistake was more forgivable that Podsednik's in some ways. He got caught in between. That happens a lot. Podsednick was off the base after having it stolen. It could have been that he overslid. At any rate, that's a bigger mistake, imho.

But as I said, **** happens. It helped take us out of a game, not the season. Podsednik is a smart baserunner (You should have heard him expound Friday on how he goes about reading a pitcher. He could write a textbook.) I think Iguchi is, too. So don't take my comments as saying anything otherwise.

Agreed...

And I really want to make the next lunceon - I have been out of town on business a lot lately and can't seem to make them.

TaylorStSox
07-24-2005, 11:51 AM
What p*ssed me off about those two plays is that each fell into the category of "the umps never call that." They never call guys out on head-first slides if they momentarily lose contact with the base after beating the throw. Except Pods, except yesterday. (Not that I think he did lose contact.) And they never call the runner safe on a force out when a fielder drops the ball taking it out of the glove. Of course, the Sox got no exception. There was actually a second "never call it" aspect to that play, because Cora wasn't even in contact with the base when he did/didn't have control of the ball. :angry:

One thing that's surprised me from the beginning about Ozzie is that he is very restrained w/ the umps. It's smart, because they find ways to settle scores with managers who routinely argue every blown call. That was one of Larussa's big shortcomings with the Sox, because the umps seemed to hate him. You could say that squeakier wheels get more calls in their favor, but I think it's the other way around, so long as the umps don't view you as a pushover. Which Ozzie is not . . .

VC


Both of those calls were CLEARLY good. When you argue with an ump after he made the right call, you look like an idiot.

Cora had the ball. He was in the vincinity of the base. It was obvious Pods came off the base. Good calls. Bad luck.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-24-2005, 11:55 AM
It was obvious Pods came off the base. Good calls. Bad luck.

Pods not keeping contact with 2B was just plain stupid baseball. The base was there and in reach, but he let his -- ahem -- upper thigh come out of contact.

Stupid baseball. This team's offense isn't good enough to give up outs like that. El Duque pitched his heart out, too.
:(:

TaylorStSox
07-24-2005, 12:03 PM
Pods not keeping contact with 2B was just plain stupid baseball. The base was there and in reach, but he let his -- ahem -- upper thigh come out of contact.

Stupid baseball. This team's offense isn't good enough to give up outs like that. El Duque pitched his heart out, too.
:(:

He was also kneed in the head and appeared to be disoriented.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-24-2005, 12:11 PM
He was also kneed in the head and appeared to be disoriented.

That's funny. For a disoriented ballplayer he sure stood up and found the umpire fast enough to question the call. Not too embarrassing...

He had the throw beat. He was out for other reasons.

FielderJones
07-24-2005, 12:30 PM
Both of those calls were CLEARLY good. When you argue with an ump after he made the right call, you look like an idiot.

Cora had the ball. He was in the vincinity of the base. It was obvious Pods came off the base. Good calls. Bad luck.

Vicinity calls are bull****. There is no baseball rule that references the vicinity of a base. The first ump that made a vicinity call was a ****, and the ones who perpetuate it are also ****s.

Six year olds playing tee-ball need vicinity calls. Professional baseball players do not.

skobabe8
07-24-2005, 12:32 PM
I went out after the game and flipped on the car radio at 9:59-10:02 pm. I was listening to am1000, and I heard some female sports talk lady discussing the Sox and Red Sox. She said something like, "Oh the White Sox are not as good as their record. They're overachievers. You look at that pitching staff and they are playing way over their heads. Jon Garland is overachieving. Mark Buehrle is overachieving."

As I was about to put my hands through the radio and choke her, she switched topics to, go figure, more New England talk. She starts discussing the Patriots and Teddy Bruschi. That's when I realized it must have been a national show, so I turned on am670.

These two local guys were echoing that cooze's anti-Sox talking points by saying stuff like, "KW needs to add to the bullpen because these are the types of games they'll play in the playoffs." He doesn't realize that the Sox lost one game to Boston due to uncharacteristic poor defense and another because of silent bats. The bullpen has been good all series and season long. At that point in the show, a caller defending the Sox said, " Bottom line, the Sox are still the best team in baseball." The hosts disputed that saying that, "No, the Sox have the best record in baseball, they aren't the best team." Notice he said it as a fact, and not something like, "Despite their best-in-baseball record, the Sox aren't necessarily the best team."

Would someone who is a regular sports talk listener tell me the names of these three people so I can never listen to them again?

I heard that too. It was the voice of Lawrence Holmes.

TommyJohn
07-24-2005, 12:45 PM
I went out after the game and flipped on the car radio at 9:59-10:02 pm. I was listening to am1000, and I heard some female sports talk lady discussing the Sox and Red Sox. She said something like, "Oh the White Sox are not as good as their record. They're overachievers. You look at that pitching staff and they are playing way over their heads. Jon Garland is overachieving. Mark Buehrle is overachieving."

At that point in the show, a caller defending the Sox said, " Bottom line, the Sox are still the best team in baseball." The hosts disputed that saying that, "No, the Sox have the best record in baseball, they aren't the best team."

What bothers me about these numbskulls is that if it were any
other team with the same record, especially three media darling
teams that shall go nameless, they would be gushing, gurgling,
cooing, drooling and fawning over said team being "Destiny's
Darlings" or "Curse Reversers" or "giving hope to the famished,
long-suffering, oppressed fanbase" or "Impossible Dream relived"
etc. etc. Idiots.

Deadguy
07-24-2005, 01:06 PM
I guess that's why he leads the team in RBIs

Um, he's the freaking cleanup hitter. He gets many more opportunities than the other hitters in our lineup, so of course he's leading the team in RBIs.

This clown has had 5 RBIs this month, is not on pace of 100 RBIs, is hitting .222 w/RISP, and needs to be moved out of the cleanup spot.

TornLabrum
07-24-2005, 01:44 PM
Agreed...

And I really want to make the next lunceon - I have been out of town on business a lot lately and can't seem to make them.

Let's hope you're around August 19 then.

mcp5185
07-24-2005, 02:08 PM
This was definitely NOT the most frustrating loss of the season. Name any of the Oakland games at the beginning of the season (the Wendlestedt debacles) or the Texas loss (after AJ Pierzynski hits a grand salami in the first inning). The Mark Prior/ Brandon McCarthy duel? The Crede muffed play/ Ramirez homer from three days ago? The only thing that makes this last loss feel like the worst is because it's the latest. All of the losses I've mentioned have been followed in later days by 3, 4, 5, or 8 game winning streaks. I'm not concerned about one loss like this. I don't like the fact that the Sox are 10-9 this month. However, we all know that a slump was going to come and is in fact here. There's been too many little bumps and bruises for the team to come out every day with the same fire. It's the official dog days. Hermie's hurt, Dye's been out, Frank's been banged up for a while now (he says he was struggling through pain and just now had to finally sit), Crede has been sitting, and El Duque has been sidelined. This hasn't been an easy stretch of teams to face, much less dealing with injuries. Everything will be fine with the Sox.

Sorry what I meant to say was this was the most frustrating game that I have been able to see on tv.

StockdaleForVeep
07-24-2005, 02:45 PM
Oh man, if you havent been to a game this series, its unbarable....

Sawx fans have this swagger, this "Ya, we're better than you, what are you going to do about it" arrogance to them

Before last season, Boston was all about the "Woe is us, we've been losing forever...Feel sorry for us!!"...But now, wow

I knew I wouldnt be fond of Red Sox fans, but now that I've come into contact with a lot of them....Enough's enough, get this series over with and ship them back to their ****ty city

They won the world series at dependin on the week are first in the AL east, why cant they walk with that swagger, i know some of us have been swagger walking about the best record in baseball

MarySwiss
07-24-2005, 04:10 PM
Oh man, if you havent been to a game this series, its unbarable....

Sawx fans have this swagger, this "Ya, we're better than you, what are you going to do about it" arrogance to them

Before last season, Boston was all about the "Woe is us, we've been losing forever...Feel sorry for us!!"...But now, wow

I knew I wouldnt be fond of Red Sox fans, but now that I've come into contact with a lot of them....Enough's enough, get this series over with and ship them back to their ****ty city

Cripes! Ever since I found you guys--for which I am truly thankful!--I've been really missing going to REAL White Sox games (as opposed to spring training games, which are still nice). But after reading some of the posts on this thread, I'm kinda glad I'm here instead of there because if I were there, I probably would've have been arrested by now!

Kidding, but only just a little bit. Based on what I've seen in today's game and the posts here, I think all Sox fans who go to the games should take a bow for their restraint and professionalism. Witness today:

Strike 1: Damon comes to bat, and I hear some clown yell, "Come on, Johnny!"
Strike 2: Ramirez comes to bat, and I hear some clown yell, "Take him deep, Manny!"
Strike 3: How does an obese, beer-chugging clown in a Red Sox shirt score a front row seat near home plate, anyway?

Be nice to see an article in one of the papers complimenting Sox fans on not beating the s*** out of idiot Red Sawx fans.

Oh please, PLEASE, let's beat these chowderheads!