PDA

View Full Version : Breaking News: Orioles trade Ponson to Padres for Nevin


Hangar18
07-23-2005, 12:44 PM
interesting ......


http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2114944&name=FPT-2114944-072313&srvc=sz

Podzilla_40
07-23-2005, 12:45 PM
That is a weird trade, maybe San Diego figured they couldn't unload Nevin without taking some salary and thought that Ponson could solve his problems at Petco. Also, this is probably a precursor to them getting Burnett or Weaver.

Mr. White Sox
07-23-2005, 12:55 PM
I really don't get this trade from a 1 for 1 standpoint. I had no idea Ponson still had value left, seeing as how they got one of the better RBI-guys in the NL, albeit a lesser-known one. Ponson's making 8.5mil this year, so if SD wanted to unload salary, they didn't by much. If SD doesn't turn around and ship Ponson for Burnett/anyone else, this will be looked at as a pretty bad trade I think

soxwon
07-23-2005, 12:56 PM
i think the white sox will get burnett and then trade him for billy wagner.

Podzilla_40
07-23-2005, 12:58 PM
Not to hijack the thread but I doubt that that could happen, seeing as FLA would probably never ship us Burnett assuming we could flip him for Wagner. We need Wagner, and we need a guy who can spot start. If we get those two we're the full package pitching wise.

Chips
07-23-2005, 12:58 PM
i think the white sox will get burnett and then trade him for billy wagner.

Billy Wagner would make a fine addition to our bullpen. As for Burnett, I don't want him pitching for us at all in any capacity.

MagicNumber22
07-23-2005, 01:03 PM
According to many media outlets, The Phils are not planning on shipping out Wagner, seeing as they are still in the hunt in the NL East. But if Florida doesn't trade Burnett, it will be very surprising. After shopping him for weeks they've got to make a move. I trust KW to make the right move.

Chisox003
07-23-2005, 01:03 PM
Interesting trade...

I bet the Orioles turn Nevin around, send him to the Marlins, and an unidentified third team (Pirates have been mentioned) land Lowell, and the O's obviously get Burnett

Just a guess :wink:

ilsox7
07-23-2005, 01:08 PM
According to the stories I've read (including the one linked here), this trade is not official and may not happen. Nevin's limited no-trade clausei includes the O's and he has yet to approve going there.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-23-2005, 01:13 PM
Baltimore giving up piching? They must have another deal lined up?

patbooyah
07-23-2005, 01:15 PM
Baltimore giving up piching? They must have another deal lined up?

a 6.03 ERA hardly constitutes pitching.

Podzilla_40
07-23-2005, 01:16 PM
ESPNNEWS just said Randa was just sent to the Padres.

doublem23
07-23-2005, 01:16 PM
Baltimore giving up piching? They must have another deal lined up?

Sidney Ponson? Addition by subtraction. He's awful.

I still remember the selected posters on these boards who nearly flipped out when KW wouldn't sign Ponson to a deal the off-season before last. There's a reason we're all here, griping about stuff rather than in the front offices of the Cell, making decisions. :rolleyes:

soltrain21
07-23-2005, 01:19 PM
ESPNNEWS just said Randa was just sent to the Padres.



NOOOOOOOOO!!!! He was our final peice!

Lip Man 1
07-23-2005, 01:24 PM
Fox Sports Radio was just discussing this (I was on with them...)

Unless the O's have another deal in place this deal makes zero sense. Their starting pitching will not hold up, perhaps they are resigned to trying to win it by outslugging the Yanks and Red Sox.

The Fox baseball guys said the Burnett to the O's deal is dead because they didn't want to take on Lowell's salary.

I asked about the White Sox and they said Burnett doesn't fit into the Sox needs. They said the Sox have won the division, it's a short season now and they can get by with Contreras and Hernandez. They said the Sox biggest need is the bullpen...now and in October.

Lip

SoxFan76
07-23-2005, 01:39 PM
NOOOOOOOOO!!!! He was our final peice!

Somewhere in a Chicagoland daycare, a tear slowly falls down WSJ's face.

soltrain21
07-23-2005, 01:43 PM
Randa is a good pickup for the Padres. I hope they end up winning that awful division.

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 01:50 PM
I asked about the White Sox and they said Burnett doesn't fit into the Sox needs. They said the Sox have won the division, it's a short season now and they can get by with Contreras and Hernandez. They said the Sox biggest need is the bullpen...now and in October.

Lip

Amen. IMHO, the only missing piece is a stud in the bullpen and I also think that would be the move that is least disruptive to "chemistry"...unless, of course one of the position players is sent away for BP help, but I don't see that happening.

Mr. White Sox
07-23-2005, 01:51 PM
Somewhere in the Chicagoland area, a tear slowly falls down Shoota's face.

That's definitely what you said...isn't it?

MRKARNO
07-23-2005, 02:00 PM
I asked about the White Sox and they said Burnett doesn't fit into the Sox needs. They said the Sox have won the division, it's a short season now and they can get by with Contreras and Hernandez. They said the Sox biggest need is the bullpen...now and in October.

Lip

I think a lot really does depend on El Duque's start today. If it appears that he could get the job done against a possible first round opponent like Boston, then I think the talk of acquiring an SP is dead. But if he fails miserably and looks incapable of even keeping the White Sox in the game, then I think KW is probably going to look as hard as possible to get a favorable deal for a starting pitcher that we can rely on in the playoffs. He knows we may not have this opportunity again. Even if we could "only" get to the Series, that would still end the 46 years of World Series-less baseball in Chicago, an awesome feat that might be worth giving up a top pitching prospect.

I know that a lot of people are reluctant to give up McCarthy, but if we can work on extensions for a new pitcher and Garland, then we would still have at least two more years of Buehrle, Garland, Garcia and the new pitcher (Burnett?), which would put us in serious contention until 2007.

I do think that there are serious questions as to whether Contreras and Burnett can ever reach their potential for the White Sox playing half of their games at US Cellular Field. Both are pitchers who will give up deep flyballs and those are much less likely to turn into HRs in Florida. Contreras's road ERA is 3.50. I think McCarthy also is always going to have trouble in Chicago. Pitchers who mainly rely on fastballs and changeups are necessarily flyball pitchers and that just isn't going to work well in Chicago. On the other hand, Burnett is not only a strikeout pitcher, but has been a groundball pitcher this year (2.60 G/F ratio, but in the past he has been a lot closer to one. A new style?). If he can keep that up, with Crede, Uribe, Iguchi and Konerko behind him, he's going to have a lot of success with us.


Regarding the bullpen, I think the White Sox organization is very high on Jenks and want to give him a real good look before trading someone away for the pen. I think that they think they might have a real gem on their hands who is ready to contribute in a big way right away.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2005, 02:22 PM
Karno:

Fox Sports radio mentioned one of your points that being that Burnett is averaging a strikeout an inning. Hard to hit a deep fly ball if you are striking out isn't it? LOL

Lip

SoxFan76
07-23-2005, 02:32 PM
That's definitely what you said...isn't it?

lol, that too. White Sox Josh sure loved Randa though...

delben91
07-23-2005, 02:38 PM
I still remember the selected posters on these boards who nearly flipped out when KW wouldn't sign Ponson to a deal the off-season before last. There's a reason we're all here, griping about stuff rather than in the front offices of the Cell, making decisions. :rolleyes:

Hey! I resemble that remark!






Oh.... :redface:

SABRSox
07-23-2005, 02:40 PM
I really don't get this trade from a 1 for 1 standpoint. I had no idea Ponson still had value left, seeing as how they got one of the better RBI-guys in the NL, albeit a lesser-known one. Ponson's making 8.5mil this year, so if SD wanted to unload salary, they didn't by much. If SD doesn't turn around and ship Ponson for Burnett/anyone else, this will be looked at as a pretty bad trade I think

I'm just gonna throw a thought out there, but it seems to me that the more probable destination for Nevin may be to Los Angeles for Jeff Weaver. The Dodgers need a 1st basemen badly, and it's possible the only way they could get him away from the Padres would be to use a third party, in this case the Orioles. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part...

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 02:44 PM
Regarding the bullpen, I think the White Sox organization is very high on Jenks and want to give him a real good look before trading someone away for the pen. I think that they think they might have a real gem on their hands who is ready to contribute in a big way right away.

Sidenote: Jenks reminds me of the cartoon character "Bobby Hill" on "King of the Hill". Anyone else see it?

balke
07-23-2005, 02:45 PM
Possible AL Playoff pitching match-ups... top 4 starters.

Buehrle
Garland
Garcia
Contreras 4.34 ERA (or El Duque 4.98)

Johnson
Mussina
Pavano
Brown 5.91 (maybe Wang 3.89 or Wright 9.15)

Schilling
Clement
Wells
Wakefield 4.42

Colon
Escobar
Washburn
Lackey 3.94

Zito
Harden
Haren
Saarloos 4.12

Santana
Radke
Silva
Lohse 4.34


I don't know what to say about the Orioles pitching staff yet, they might be getting Burnett and just traded Ponson. I guess the Tigers have a shot too the way they are playing, but these are the teams I see having the best shot. Jose matches up well ERA wise with most of other teams #4 starters. Even though some teams have pitchers that will be coming off injury soon, and pitchers who have a distorted ERA, you can still see the names and only a couple are a little better than Jose. He's pretty good as a #4, regardless of past stats. He's not the same pitcher he was for the Yanks IMO.

The Angels have a great squad. Hopefully we can land a Wagner to try and have an answer to K-rod. That, or hopefully Hermanson can get back to full health and pitch like he has the majority of the season.

A_ROW33
07-23-2005, 02:56 PM
just have to say escobar is hurt for anaheim

I think part of the reason SD did this is because Eaton can't start the rest of the year because he can't throw his curve after his finger injury.

Jjav829
07-23-2005, 02:58 PM
I'm guessing Nevin doesn't go there. Rosenthal has a story on this. Nevin's agent says:

"Phil doesn't want to go anywhere," Axelrod told TSN. "He's from this area. He's building a new home in San Diego. He has three children in school here. His parents attend a good portion of the games -- they live 80 or 90 miles up the road. San Diego is where he wants to be."

Sounds to me like Nevin isn't going to leave and really, why leave San Diego to go to Baltimore?

The weird thing is that Gammons says this trade would actually make it less likely that the Orioles pursue Burnett. I guess the Orioles are just going to try to slug their way to a playoff berth. Not like Ponson was a big part of their pitching staff....

balke
07-23-2005, 03:02 PM
just have to say escobar is hurt for anaheim

I think part of the reason SD did this is because Eaton can't start the rest of the year because he can't throw his curve after his finger injury.

Jul 21 Escobar played catch Wednesday for the first time since undergoing surgery June 29 to shave a bone spur and remove a bone chip from his right elbow, according to the team's official site.
Recommendation: Angels Manager Mike Scioscia said it was more tossing the ball than throwing, and Escobar said afterward that he felt fine.

I looked it up first, he's supposed to be back in early September, so I just figured if he's healthy and his same old self, he'll be a starter. Otherwise, I guess Santana would be in the mix.

I didn't realize Eaton is going to be out so long. That division is pitiful. With Loretta back, the run production should go up for the Pads though.

RedPinStripes
07-23-2005, 03:12 PM
Fox Sports Radio was just discussing this (I was on with them...)


I asked about the White Sox and they said Burnett doesn't fit into the Sox needs. They said the Sox have won the division, it's a short season now and they can get by with Contreras and Hernandez. They said the Sox biggest need is the bullpen...now and in October.

Lip

I agree there.

MRKARNO
07-23-2005, 03:27 PM
Karno:

Fox Sports radio mentioned one of your points that being that Burnett is averaging a strikeout an inning. Hard to hit a deep fly ball if you are striking out isn't it? LOL

Lip

Yes, but even the very best starting pitchers put two balls in play per inning. If Burnett's ability to keep the ball on the ground is for real, then Burnett belongs in a White Sox uniform, period.

owensmouth
07-23-2005, 03:44 PM
Sidney Ponson? Addition by subtraction. He's awful.

:rolleyes:
Sounds like he's perfect for the NL West

MHOUSE
07-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Ponson might improve pitching in Petco. He's a flyball pitcher and his two teams (Baltimore and San Fran briefly) are both hitters parks more or less. If Ponson can get his head together he can be a quality pitcher. "Change of scenery" cliche I know, but Eaton is out in the bullpen now and the Padres needed SP help.

They've made some good moves so far (Randa, Quantrill, Ponson) so I wouldn't count them out. The salary swap for Nevin made sense because Xavier Nady has finally started hitting and Burroughs was sent to AAA.

samram
07-23-2005, 05:06 PM
Ponson might improve pitching in Petco. He's a flyball pitcher and his two teams (Baltimore and San Fran briefly) are both hitters parks more or less. If Ponson can get his head together he can be a quality pitcher. "Change of scenery" cliche I know, but Eaton is out in the bullpen now and the Padres needed SP help.

They've made some good moves so far (Randa, Quantrill, Ponson) so I wouldn't count them out. The salary swap for Nevin made sense because Xavier Nady has finally started hitting and Burroughs was sent to AAA.

No reason to count them out. In that division, I think their magic number is down to ten already.

Foulke You
07-23-2005, 09:19 PM
I do think that there are serious questions as to whether Contreras and Burnett can ever reach their potential for the White Sox playing half of their games at US Cellular Field. Both are pitchers who will give up deep flyballs and those are much less likely to turn into HRs in Florida. Contreras's road ERA is 3.50. I think McCarthy also is always going to have trouble in Chicago. Pitchers who mainly rely on fastballs and changeups are necessarily flyball pitchers and that just isn't going to work well in Chicago.
You bring up some interesting points MRKARNO, however, an observation I've made is that our ballpark, post 2004 renovations plays VERY small in June, July, and August. In April, May, and September, the ball doesn't have that "jump" at US Cellular Field that it has in the hotter months and plays more like the pre renovated version. If you remember, Contreras had his strongest outings in April and May so it isn't inconceivable that he'll get stronger at home as the weather gets cooler out. However, I do agree with your overall philosophy that the Sox need to target groundball pitchers similar to Buehrle and Garland for continued success at home.

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 01:13 AM
Regarding the bullpen, I think the White Sox organization is very high on Jenks and want to give him a real good look before trading someone away for the pen. I think that they think they might have a real gem on their hands who is ready to contribute in a big way right away.

I think our biggest mistake may have been bringing Jenks up before the deadline. If I were a GM dealing with KW, he'd be the first guy I'd want right now. From how he's handled himself so far, he looks like he is going to be able to throw strikes consistently. With that fastball and that curveball he can absolutely dominate if he doesn't walk people.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 01:38 AM
I think our biggest mistake may have been bringing Jenks up before the deadline. If I were a GM dealing with KW, he'd be the first guy I'd want right now. From how he's handled himself so far, he looks like he is going to be able to throw strikes consistently. With that fastball and that curveball he can absolutely dominate if he doesn't walk people.

So why is it a mistake to bring him up? It means we brought up a quality ballplayer.
You just tell the other GM's NO. Now I observed before (to the sharp disagreement of some) that Kenny doesn't exactly cut tough deals, but I don't think we're to the point that the other teams tell us who we must trade.