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soxfan123
07-23-2005, 02:00 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors

Now, it says for BMAC that Burnett may be available. Hey, I'll take it. What do we have to lose in the department of championships? Let's do it Kenny!

Tragg
07-23-2005, 02:06 AM
How do you figure renting AJ for 3 months as our 4th or5th starter will signficantly affect our playoff chances?

For Baltimore, Weaver or AJ would be their #1 or 2 and it might make sense to overpay for these 2 pitchers who are persistently overrated by stat-heads.

I would suggest we pursue players that we need. This is what I think we need:
A legitimate #1 (doubtful)
Bullpen help
Infield help to displace the useless Harris
Lefty bat
A cheap, 5th starter who can eat up 6 innings with 3-4 runs (if El D can't go the distance)

Chicago83
07-23-2005, 03:25 AM
How do you figure renting AJ for 3 months as our 4th or5th starter will signficantly affect our playoff chances?

For Baltimore, Weaver or AJ would be their #1 or 2 and it might make sense to overpay for these 2 pitchers who are persistently overrated by stat-heads.

I would suggest we pursue players that we need. This is what I think we need:
A legitimate #1 (doubtful)
Bullpen help
Infield help to displace the useless Harris
Lefty bat
A cheap, 5th starter who can eat up 6 innings with 3-4 runs (if El D can't go the distance)


Right on. AJ is not much better than Jose or El Duque, he's not going to improve this team. If we are going to make a move and ship out a prospect like BMAC then we need to get something big in return.

Personally I would like to see us look for three things, a closer, a utility infielder, and a big lefty bat. Obviously there is little chance we get all of them, but this is what I would like to see.

BeviBall!
07-23-2005, 10:09 AM
Why do we think it would only be a rental? I'd wager KW can sign him up to a nice deal.

Tragg
07-23-2005, 10:33 AM
Why do we think it would only be a rental? I'd wager KW can sign him up to a nice deal.

Rent or no rent, how does a fourth starter significantly affect our chances in the playoffs?

It will cost 10 million a season, minimum. What do you think Freddie would think about that, not to mention MB and Garland? Do we really want to pay our 4th starter 10 million with our budget? Our maybe he'll be our 2 or 3, as it lessens our ability to extend MB and JG.

balke
07-23-2005, 10:40 AM
Rent or no rent, how does a fourth starter significantly affect our chances in the playoffs?

It will cost 10 million a season, minimum. What do you think Freddie would think about that, not to mention MB and Garland? Do we really want to pay our 4th starter 10 million with our budget? Our maybe he'll be our 2 or 3, as it lessens our ability to extend MB and JG.


AJ or a Cuban can move into the Bullpen. I'd take a long reliever that throws as hard as Burnett. I think this is a most acceptable move. It would hurt real bad if Mccarthy really is Blackjack, but for now Burnett could help us in a championship run.

Fredsox
07-23-2005, 11:17 AM
AJ or a Cuban can move into the Bullpen. I'd take a long reliever that throws as hard as Burnett. I think this is a most acceptable move. It would hurt real bad if Mccarthy really is Blackjack, but for now Burnett could help us in a championship run.

I disagree. We're already in the playoffs unless we do a complete El Foldo. We're just jockeying for position hoping to hit the post-season healthy and playing well. Once in the playoffs we need no more than 3 starters, which we already have. If we're going to add, I say add bullpen help.

spiffie
07-23-2005, 11:25 AM
If the rumors of Burnett being something the Phillies would trade Wagner for, I would take that deal in a heartbeat, flip Burnett to Philly, and suddenly our bullpen is frightening and totally playoff ready at that point.

Hendu
07-23-2005, 11:34 AM
The reason I wouldn't mind having AJ is for a change of pace. Buehrle, Garland and El Duque are finesse pitchers. Freddy is somewher in between, but not exactly a flamethrowing strike-out pitcher. It'd be nice to throw in a power pitcher to give patient teams like the BoSox a different look so they won't get locked in after seeing pitchers with a similar style a few nights in a row.

Of course I don't want Kenny to give up major league talent or more than one top-level prospect for him. AJ's an intriguing player who has a big upside, but he's not a sure thing like Schmidt (if healthy) and shouldn't command as much as the Marlins have been asking.

DickAllen72
07-23-2005, 11:39 AM
If the rumors of Burnett being something the Phillies would trade Wagner for, I would take that deal in a heartbeat, flip Burnett to Philly, and suddenly our bullpen is frightening and totally playoff ready at that point.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!! :cheers:

Essentialy it would be McCarthy for Wagner, and I would do that in a heartbeat.

Foulke You
07-23-2005, 01:04 PM
WE HAVE A WINNER!!! :cheers:

Essentialy it would be McCarthy for Wagner, and I would do that in a heartbeat.
Agreed. With Shingo gone and Hermy on the mend, if the Sox should overpay for a pitcher at this point, I'd rather them bolster the pen with a top closer like Wagner or Guardado than land Burnett. It just makes more sense since the Sox will likely make the playoffs with the starting 5 that we have. Now, if the AL Central lead were only 4 or 5 games, then yes, getting Burnett would be a better move but right now, the Sox need to look at the bigger picture and that is getting another arm in that bullpen.

balke
07-23-2005, 01:07 PM
I don't know if I would feel comfortable giving up Mccarthy for a closer who talks about retiring. I want Wagner, but if you're going to trade a potential lights out starter, it should be for a potential lights out starter. Marte and cash is all the Phills need from us for Wagner and his contract.

Phillies are winning too, so its still a no go.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2005, 01:19 PM
Tragg:

History has shown teams have consistently used four starters in the LCS and the World Series. Some (not many) have used four in the LDS.

The point is having The Duke or Contreras pitch in those series CAN affect significantly, the Sox chances to win or go home.

What we don't know is whether that would be good or bad.

Contreras has not had a good post season record in his history (look it up...) The Duke has a sterling one. However that was before his consistent arm troubles. This year he has worked into a habit of consistently giving up four runs in six innings of work. That certainly won't get it done in the post season.

Hence the talk about 'upgrading' the rotation.

If the Sox play .500 ball the rest of the way getting to the playoffs is no problem....what happens after that though is that every team starts 0-0.

Lip

SoxxoS
07-23-2005, 01:25 PM
AJ Burnett is better than El Duque and Contreras, no doubt. He is entering that stage after Tommy John surgery that he will probably start really taking off. He would also be great insurance if one of our starters goes down after August 1st (you never know with freak injuries and such). BMAC isn't going to be counted on in the playoffs, so I would want one more starter.

If I had a choice between Billy Wagner and Burnett, I would take Wagner, however.

TimChamp
07-23-2005, 01:30 PM
I think our focus right now should be getting Cintron from the D-Backs (get rid of Willie) and Guardado from the M's (anybody know his stats in the playoffs?).



--Champ out

nodiggity59
07-23-2005, 01:45 PM
Anybody think that if and when we get AJ, KW would then be in a dominant position against Philly?

What I'm thinking is this:

Marte and BMAC for AJ
Contreras and Anderson for Wagner

Just bc KW doesn't HAVE to give up AJ if he doesn't want to. granted, Philly doesn't have to give us Wagner. But I still think our offer would be as good as anybody's.

nedlug
07-23-2005, 02:00 PM
Just bc KW doesn't HAVE to give up AJ if he doesn't want to. granted, Philly doesn't have to give us Wagner. But I still think our offer would be as good as anybody's.

I've heard that the only way Philly's giving up Wagner is if they get the best pitcher on the market (in their minds)...AJB.

Chips
07-23-2005, 02:03 PM
WE HAVE A WINNER!!! :cheers:

Essentialy it would be McCarthy for Wagner, and I would do that in a heartbeat.


WE HAVE ANOTHER WINNER :cheers:

DaveIsHere
07-23-2005, 02:20 PM
Anybody think that if and when we get AJ, KW would then be in a dominant position against Philly?

What I'm thinking is this:

Marte and BMAC for AJ
Contreras and Anderson for Wagner

Just bc KW doesn't HAVE to give up AJ if he doesn't want to. granted, Philly doesn't have to give us Wagner. But I still think our offer would be as good as anybody's.

Holy Wet Dream Batman. Could you imagine if we were able to get both AJ and Wagner, that would make us the best pitching staff by far. What a rotation and bullpen that would be!!! I can dream so don't bash me.

One thing that has me thinking too is that JR has said multiple times this year that "Money will not be a problem" if we need some guys.

Still waiting to see if anything happens, come on KDUB under the radar we go

nodiggity59
07-23-2005, 02:42 PM
I can dream so don't bash me.



Hey, what do you think I was doing. AJ and Wagner?

RowandKicksAss07
07-23-2005, 05:47 PM
On ESPNNEWS, Buster (what kind of name is that) Olney said that the Burnett to Orioles rumor is highly unlikely, and the two best suitors for Burnett are the White Sox and Red Sox. The White Sox are supposedly proposing Contreras and BMAC for Burnett (which is what everybody expected) and the Red Sox are proposing Bronson Arroyo and some minor leaguer i believe. Arroyo made a name for himself last year in the playoffs but I dont see how that beats the White Sox offer.

SOXSINCE'70
07-23-2005, 06:02 PM
WE HAVE A WINNER!!! :cheers:

Essentialy it would be McCarthy for Wagner, and I would do that in a heartbeat.


If it can be done,it will be done.Rest assured,KW,the
Jim Phelps* of GM's,is working on something.Sox fans
pay attention.Details will be coming.Stay tuned tomorrow.
Same Sox time,same Sox website**.:D: :D: :D:

*-Jim Phelps is the character Peter Graves played on the
"Mission:Impossible" television series in the late 60's-early 70's.

**- A small nod to the old "Batman" TV series.At the end of the first
episode,the narrator would tell viewers to "tune in tomorrow night,
same Bat time,same Bat channel" to see how Batman would escape
the trap set by the latest Gotham City villain.

Tragg
07-23-2005, 06:10 PM
Tragg:

History has shown teams have consistently used four starters in the LCS and the World Series. Some (not many) have used four in the LDS.

The point is having The Duke or Contreras pitch in those series CAN affect significantly, the Sox chances to win or go home.

What we don't know is whether that would be good or bad.

Contreras has not had a good post season record in his history (look it up...) The Duke has a sterling one. However that was before his consistent arm troubles. This year he has worked into a habit of consistently giving up four runs in six innings of work. That certainly won't get it done in the post season.

Hence the talk about 'upgrading' the rotation.

If the Sox play .500 ball the rest of the way getting to the playoffs is no problem....what happens after that though is that every team starts 0-0.

Lip
a)And some teams don't go with 4; and for sure, the 4th gets less time than would a reliever that we need; b)you explained 1/2 of the equation - the other half of the equation on what basis is Burnett adjudged to be so superior to what we have? ERA et al about like Contreras (after applying national league and pitchers' park discounts) and his last 2 starts have been terrible and mediocre, in that order.c)I know i'm in the minority but I do believe that the Sox are WELL set up to contend for a number of years, and I don't want to blow too much firepower on a 3 month rent, or worse, a ridiculous extension (10 Mill +)that will hamper our flexibility in the coming years. Kenny did a super job in the offseason plugging holes with contracts that were reasonable in price and in duration.

balke
07-23-2005, 06:14 PM
I'm sure Contreras would start and do well this offseason. But, if the faith in him or El Duque isn't there, Jon supposedly can go on 3 days rest, at least that's what people were saying last year. I think Contreras would do fine in the playoffs this season.

Tragg
07-23-2005, 06:32 PM
Philly is very much in the playoff race. I guess they could white flag it - it's been done before.

I wish we could give the return we got in that trade - we wouldn't have to give up McCarthy, Sweeney, Anderson or Young (the Giants protected their favorite 4-5 prospects in 1997). We could send them 7 other minor leaguers and also pick up a solid starter and a fifth starter from their roster. Then we could trade Contreras and Rowand to the Reds for Griffey Jr.

TimChamp
07-23-2005, 10:38 PM
Philly is very much in the playoff race. I guess they could white flag it - it's been done before.

As far as that goes, I honestly think the Phillies will white flag it because, from the looks of it, the WC is going to the Nats.


Then we could trade Contreras and Rowand to the Reds for Griffey Jr.

Is that part supposed to be in teal? Because there is no way that trade would happen and why would we want to do that?


--Champ out to ponder how getting Ken Griffey, DL would help us...

Domeshot17
07-24-2005, 01:10 AM
Tonight was living proof of How griffey would help us. Our offense is so streaky its un real. Griffey is having a very quiet 280ish 20 homers 60 rbi year on a bad team ( in a hitters park, but so is the cell). Im so sick of hearing how much we need all these prospects because honestly, we dont. We have a team with a young core. IF we got AJ burnett, KW would do it like freddy last year and make sure the extension gets done. Then you are talking Buehlre (midish 20s) Garland(mid 20s) Garcia(late 20s) and Burnett (mid/late 20s). An Extension means not only do we have it this year, but also next. El Duque throws the 2nd year of his deal next year, and Lance Broadway is here in 2007. Konerko Tadahito and Crede make up the If Core (Uribe has to go. His glove is solid, and hes great at hitting the exclamation point, but he is the least clutch hitter on the team). We need to pull off a few deals that give us some damn consistency. Wagner is one, AJ as our 4 is 2 (and for any who say he isnt, you are lying if you wonder if Contreras can split vs. the Bo Sox) Omar Vizquel is 3 and if it came down to it, Griffey Jr is 4. The reds reallllly need to get out from under his salary, and would probably pick up about half. So he would cost the Sox Sweeney and 2 B specs more than likely to come DH where he could stay healthier and mash for us. Without a normal 1b backup for half the year, Paulie is spent. Thomas is hurt, Everett hasnt had a clutch hit in a what seems like a very long time, and paying timo perez 1 million may be the worst 1 million spent in history. This series scares me, because I fear this could be us in the playoffs. We blow a good outting from our best pitcher versus theres, Garland does enough to grab game 2, and game 3 the offense shuts down and we lose 3-0. Now its game 4, Buehlre either throws on 3 days rest or we start contreras, if we win, Garland throws on 3 days rest vs. Their number 1. If we make these acquisitions, No more Home runs when we are down 2-0 ( and Marte has been brutal at that this year, unable to keep us that close, almost as bad as he is with inherited runners), No more 6 run innings to kill our team spirits from jose, and no more watchin Jaun hit a 400 foot high pop up to the SS and Carl Striking out then jawing at the ump. We saw what the comeback of big frank did our team, just him being here made everyone play better. But this in crunch time, beating up on KC and Detroit and Tampa bay will get us into the playoffs, but teams like Boston are who we have to face, and we havent looked that dominant this weekend. We looked scared friday, hungry yesterday and clueless tonight. And thats with all 3 at home, imagine having the go away down like this. We need someone to pick this team up, and fire them up, because we just don't look like the same team we did in the first half

Lip Man 1
07-24-2005, 01:27 PM
If anyone can figure out the gibberish that was just posted please let me know. (Nothing better then one massive run-on paragraph that just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...) :?:

Lip

Tragg
07-24-2005, 02:14 PM
As far as that goes, I honestly think the Phillies will white flag it because, from the looks of it, the WC is going to the Nats.




Is that part supposed to be in teal? Because there is no way that trade would happen and why would we want to do that?


--Champ out to ponder how getting Ken Griffey, DL would help us...
The NATS are slumping like dogs - no way is anyone giving up in the face of the nats. You might give up because there are so many teams in it, that your odds simply aren't good. But to the NATS solo? Not a chance.

He's not on the DL - just keep him off the DL for another 3 months. (what out to be in teal is how Griffey can help us). Griffey's a TOP player that produces, in sharp contrast to Marlin rejects Burnett and Lowell.

TimChamp
07-24-2005, 04:14 PM
The NATS are slumping like dogs - no way is anyone giving up in the face of the nats. You might give up because there are so many teams in it, that your odds simply aren't good. But to the NATS solo? Not a chance.

He's not on the DL - just keep him off the DL for another 3 months. (what out to be in teal is how Griffey can help us). Griffey's a TOP player that produces, in sharp contrast to Marlin rejects Burnett and Lowell.

Well, OK, the WC will probably go to the Astros, but I really think the Phillies will be sellers by the time it is all said and done.

Also, NO WAY will Reinsdorf take on Griffey's nearly $11 million contract (how much ever is remaining on it, I assume around $6 million). And while he would help our team, I just don't see how feasible this deal is. This would take our salary expenditures past $80 million and I don't see that happening. As far as my reference to Griffey as Ken Griffey, DL. I know he's not the DL, I'm not stupid, I'm just saying that he has had injury problems in the past and the last thing we need is to have $11 million sitting on the bench in September and trying to figure out what to do with our OF spot...While this may or may not happen, I just don't see the rewards outweighing the risk. Plus, Rowand is our MOST CLUTCH hitter (Highest BA with RISP) on the team. Why would you want to get rid of that?


--Champ out