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View Full Version : Good article by Rogers on standing pat with the O


PeteWard
07-23-2005, 01:52 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-050722rogers,1,2924072.column?coll=cs-whitesox-utility

Frankfan4life
07-23-2005, 04:52 AM
Great column. I totally agree with Rogers. The Sox should add pitching if possible. When I think of all the good hitters the Sox had in 2000 and all of the choking that went on in the playoffs, I can't say enough about this year's team. They're more versatile and seem undaunted under pressure. The Sox are playing better than .500 baseball after the AS break and that's all they need to do to get in the playoffs.

chaerulez
07-23-2005, 09:06 AM
The only thing the Sox really need in terms of a bat is a left hander on the bench for pinch hitting. Then again, Gload might have just filled that role.

SoxFan76
07-23-2005, 10:46 AM
Yeah I read that this morning...I think he said Timo and Harris have 13 combined RBI. Gload had like 45 last year? I'm sorry, I know the Sox need infield depth (besides 1st base), but Willie has got to go when Frank comes back regardless of Crede's back. Or trade him....anything. He has to go.

Vernam
07-23-2005, 11:25 AM
Yeah I read that this morning...I think he said Timo and Harris have 13 combined RBI. Gload had like 45 last year? I'm sorry, I know the Sox need infield depth (besides 1st base), but Willie has got to go when Frank comes back regardless of Crede's back. Or trade him....anything. He has to go.
:gulp:Willie doesn't fit. The last straw for me was July 8 against Oakland where he failed twice to get Pods over to third -- completely brutal, and it cost them the game. The contrast between Willie and Iguchi is just so stark.

Now that Ozzie's putting his imprint on the Sox roster, I hope that filters down into the farm system. I don't think he'll be happy if they keep sending up light-hitting prospects who can't bunt, steal, or hit behind the runner.

VC

DickAllen72
07-23-2005, 11:33 AM
There are only three really fast players on this team: Pods, Ozuna and Willie. Also, although Iguchi has played very well, Willie is an even better defensive second baseman.

For a team built on speed and defense, Willie fits in just fine.

When Frank comes back, Timo should be the odd man out. Carl has been fine in RF this year, and that's the only position Timo plays well. Willie can play CF as well as Timo if need be. Gload takes Timo's spot as LH hitter off the bench as well.

nedlug
07-23-2005, 11:56 AM
There are only three really fast players on this team: Pods, Ozuna and Willie. Also, although Iguchi has played very well, Willie is an even better defensive second baseman.

For a team built on speed and defense, Willie fits in just fine.

When Frank comes back, Timo should be the odd man out. Carl has been fine in RF this year, and that's the only position Timo plays well. Willie can play CF as well as Timo if need be. Gload takes Timo's spot as LH hitter off the bench as well.

Noooooo way, Timo is INFINITELY more clutch than Willie. Plus, he's one of Ozzie favorites... he stays.

DickAllen72
07-23-2005, 12:11 PM
Noooooo way, Timo is INFINITELY more clutch than Willie. Plus, he's one of Ozzie favorites... he stays.

I know he's Ozzie's favorite, and that is why he will stay.

But when Frank comes back, if they send down Willie and keep Timo, they now have only one backup infielder and a starting third baseman with a back that can flare up at any time.

Also, now you have Timo competing for AB's with Everett and Gload. Everett already would have his AB's limited due to Frank at DH, and the position he plays best, RF, is also the position Timo plays best.

Also they would have both Gload and Timo on the bench as LH pinch hitters. Timo just doesn't fit this team as well as Willie who can pinch run and back up Iguchi with excellent defense as well as fill in adequately at SS or CF if needed.

Because of favoritism Timo will stay, but he doesn't really fit as well as Willie or Ross.

jabrch
07-23-2005, 12:15 PM
Yeah - Willie is done. I hate to say it - but he's done here. He doesn't do anything well.


PHG was the leader of the Kill Willie Club - and he was right. Harris someday, if he works really hard, and improves his game, will be a AAAA player - that's his cieling. I think he should be locked in a room with D'Angelo Jimenez - for they both have raw talents, but no baseball skils.

Vernam
07-23-2005, 12:20 PM
Yeah - Willie is done. I hate to say it - but he's done here. He doesn't do anything well.
Willie is now at .205 batting and .283 on-base percentage. With those numbers, he'd have to be excellent with the glove, and he isn't. Could they use an extra fielder? Yes. Is he worth keeping around for that purpose? Uh, nope.

VC

owensmouth
07-23-2005, 12:43 PM
:gulp:Willie doesn't fit. The last straw for me was July 8 against Oakland where he failed twice to get Pods over to third -- completely brutal, and it cost them the game. The contrast between Willie and Iguchi is just so stark.

Now that Ozzie's putting his imprint on the Sox roster, I hope that filters down into the farm system. I don't think he'll be happy if they keep sending up light-hitting prospects who can't bunt, steal, or hit behind the runner.

VCThey haven't sent up a hitting prospect in two years. The Sox minor league system has been devoid of talent for some time now.

jehosaphat
07-23-2005, 12:47 PM
Great column. I totally agree with Rogers. The Sox should add pitching if possible. When I think of all the good hitters the Sox had in 2000 and all of the choking that went on in the playoffs, I can't say enough about this year's team. They're more versatile and seem undaunted under pressure. The Sox are playing better than .500 baseball after the AS break and that's all they need to do to get in the playoffs.

I agree with Rogers and you regarding that there is no pressing need to make a trade. But, I don't think we'll last long in the playoffs if we are not among the hottest teams coming into the postseason. I know you weren't saying you wanted us to play .500 ball, but I worry a about playing the next 70 games at a little above .500 and jogging into he playoffs with 95 or 96 wins. I think that is a recipe for getting swept by a charging Oakland, Baltimore, or NYY club. I hope we enter the post season with a pissy attitude, rested arms, and with 14 wins in our last 20 games.

Making an early exit from the playoffs would leave me feeling very empty.

Go Sox.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2005, 01:07 PM
I agree with Phil to the extent that a major bat is not needed, however a back up infielder who can hit better then Willie's .213 is BADLY needed.

I do agree completely with his comment that if moves are made it should be for pitching...another arm in the bullpen to start would be most dandy.

Lip

hawkjt
07-23-2005, 01:14 PM
I have been a Willie defender all year but Timo's AB's have been good lately. Still we need an infielder so if Timo was not an Ozzie fav he would go down. I still wonder why we did not jump on TonyG as a willie replacement. He would be chemistry perfect , a good stick, and can play all three infield positions. I think the red sox gave them a couple of low level prospects. That would have been the kind of minor tweaking move that would have been helpful without changing the basic configuration of team. Oh well.

Taliesinrk
07-23-2005, 01:45 PM
I know he's Ozzie's favorite, and that is why he will stay.

But when Frank comes back, if they send down Willie and keep Timo, they now have only one backup infielder and a starting third baseman with a back that can flare up at any time.

Also, now you have Timo competing for AB's with Everett and Gload. Everett already would have his AB's limited due to Frank at DH, and the position he plays best, RF, is also the position Timo plays best.

Also they would have both Gload and Timo on the bench as LH pinch hitters. Timo just doesn't fit this team as well as Willie who can pinch run and back up Iguchi with excellent defense as well as fill in adequately at SS or CF if needed.

Because of favoritism Timo will stay, but he doesn't really fit as well as Willie or Ross.

Maybe I've missed some threads lately, but with all the Willie hating, I don't think I've seen or heard an argument as good as that.. Yeah Timo has been getting good AB's in clutch situations.. but he doesn't play the IF; except for first, and that's what this team needs.. Yeah, it'd be nice to trade for a replacement for Willie, but right now we need pitching most.. Great post DA72..

Vernam
07-23-2005, 03:02 PM
They haven't sent up a hitting prospect in two years. The Sox minor league system has been devoid of talent for some time now.
Presumably they might again, though! :smile: And the scarcity of talent everywhere is exactly why fundamentals are so important. It's the equivalent of how jump shooting is a lost art in the NBA, because all the kids think they'll be the next Jordan. No self-respecting MLB organization should let a guy with Willie's physique progress through the minors without learning to bunt, steal, and hit behind the runner. These used to be basic skills that were taken for granted -- that's why they call 'em fundamentals! The Sox can get a huge advantage over other orgs if they're changing their ways and teaching guys like Willie (and Crede, for that matter) to do the little things. I am not in a position to evaluate whether the minor league instructors are getting better, but I sure agree they've been failing up 'til now.

On WSCR this a.m., Hawk was asked why more minor leaguers don't try the knuckleball to prolong their careers. He said he had no idea, and the same thing applied to trying different deliveries like sidearm and underhand. Because 90 percent of the guys in the minors will never pitch a game in the bigs, he said, "what difference does it make if they blow out their arms trying something new?" Exactly my thinking, and there's not even a risk of injury associated with bunting.

VC

shoota
07-23-2005, 05:04 PM
I enjoyed this read since PRog talked positively about the White Sox, and didn't feel the need to question their credibility like Dan McGrath.

The way he ended it made me smile. Nice ending Phil Rogers:


Thomas isn't incapacitated. He has a limp.

Kirk Gibson had one in 1988, and that didn't work out badly.

batmanZoSo
07-23-2005, 05:16 PM
I have to agree with Rogers. I'd like a good starter and a good bullpen arm. As far as hitters go, it would help to have another good bat off the bench, which we could probably get along with a pitcher in a trade. You can't have too much depth in the playoffs, especially if you have to play in a National League park.

Tragg
07-23-2005, 06:56 PM
How about Shingo and Willie for a mediocre utility infielder?

shoota
07-24-2005, 04:13 AM
How about Shingo and Willie for a mediocre utility infielder?

I think that would put us over the top.

Vernam
07-24-2005, 10:25 AM
I think that would put us over the top.
"You," or "Us?" :smile:

The people claiming we should trade Rowand for Griffey (which I think is kooky, not least because it ain't gonna happen due to $) are on the right track in that a strong lefty hitter is the most glaring need. My preference would be Aubrey Huff, but I'm odd that way in favoring young studs over guys with big contracts who are nearing the end of the line.

VC