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View Full Version : I demand a trade for Omar Vizquel


BanditJimmy
07-22-2005, 12:32 PM
I can no longer take the lack of production from the bottom of the order.

SS or 3B MUST be upgraded by Kenny before the deadline.



In order, here is my list of desperate needs for this team:



1. Another Stick == 3B or SS

2. Closer == although Cotts, Pollite, & Marte can do the job for now. And hope Hermanson can get back healthy.

3. Starting pitcher (but I can live with what we have)





But number 1 is to get a stick to play on the left side of the infield.



Defensively, except for last night, I have no complains about Crede and Uribe. But their atrocious hitting this year totally negates that.



I propose to trade a top prospect such as Anderson or Sweeney (not McCarthy) for Omar Vizquel of the Giants. With Vizquel we are not losing anything defensively. A platoon of Uribe and Crede at 3B is fine with me. If you recall, Uribe played a more spectacular 3B last season than he did SS. Bringing in Vizquel who is a current .300 hitter would work wonders on this line-up. If we plug him in the 2 hole and move Iguchi to 9 and allow Iguchi to swing freely, this could only improve his game even more.



My line up:

Pods

Vizquel

Rowand

Konerko

Everett

Dye

AJ

Crede/ Uribe

Iguchi





I love Frank Thomas as much as the next guy on this board, but he should hang them up for this year and hope to come back strong next season. Unless he can accept a pinch hit only role the rest of the way, the line-up needs to be set for the rest of the year.

Randar68
07-22-2005, 12:39 PM
I can no longer take the lack of production from the bottom of the order.

You mean the 3rd baseman with more clutch hits than anyone else ont he team?

Maybe you should stop bitching about the bottom of the order and take a peak at the #3-7 production that has been sorely lacking on this team. Compare that to other contenders...

Everyone's "Bottom of the order" is weak, that's why those hitters are hitting 8th and 9th...


Some of you people make me feel like I'm trying to explain rocket science to a monkey...

RKMeibalane
07-22-2005, 12:40 PM
I can no longer take the lack of production from the bottom of the order.

SS or 3B MUST be upgraded by Kenny before the deadline.



In order, here is my list of desperate needs for this team:



1. Another Stick == 3B or SS

2. Closer == although Cotts, Pollite, & Marte can do the job for now. And hope Hermanson can get back healthy.

3. Starting pitcher (but I can live with what we have)





But number 1 is to get a stick to play on the left side of the infield.



Defensively, except for last night, I have no complains about Crede and Uribe. But their atrocious hitting this year totally negates that.



I propose to trade a top prospect such as Anderson or Sweeney (not McCarthy) for Omar Vizquel of the Giants. With Vizquel we are not losing anything defensively. A platoon of Uribe and Crede at 3B is fine with me. If you recall, Uribe played a more spectacular 3B last season than he did SS. Bringing in Vizquel who is a current .300 hitter would work wonders on this line-up. If we plug him in the 2 hole and move Iguchi to 9 and allow Iguchi to swing freely, this could only improve his game even more.



My line up:

Pods

Vizquel

Rowand

Konerko

Everett

Dye

AJ

Crede/ Uribe

Iguchi





I love Frank Thomas as much as the next guy on this board, but he should hang them up for this year and hope to come back strong next season. Unless he can accept a pinch hit only role the rest of the way, the line-up needs to be set for the rest of the year.

I think this Bandit's about to get thrown in the 'slammer.

GAsoxfan
07-22-2005, 12:59 PM
Crede I don't really have a problem with. He's not a good hitter, but he plays good defense and comes up with some clutch hits (which makes you wonder where that same focus is on other at bats, but that's another story) so I can live with him out there. Uribe, on the other hand, is absolutely horrific at the plate. I know most teams bottom of the order is weak, but when your starting SS is an easier out than some pitchers, you have a problem. I think Vizquel would be a great addition for this team.

BanditJimmy
07-22-2005, 01:10 PM
I realize the middle of the order has its issues also. But there is no stability with Ozzie's line-up. The only stability is the two guys on the bottom which are Crede and Uribe and we have come to agree that they both suck as ML hitters.

This is a place to start in fixing the offensevie woes.


Just my opinion

Randar68
07-22-2005, 01:21 PM
I realize the middle of the order has its issues also. But there is no stability with Ozzie's line-up. The only stability is the two guys on the bottom which are Crede and Uribe and we have come to agree that they both suck as ML hitters.

This is a place to start in fixing the offensevie woes.


Just my opinion

Let me reiterate in case you missed it the first time...

You DO NOT address your offensive woes by starting that the bottom of the order, particularly when you have glaring weaknesses in the middle of the order.:rolleyes:

BanditJimmy
07-22-2005, 01:24 PM
Let me reiterate in case you missed it the first time...

You DO NOT address your offensive woes by starting that the bottom of the order, particularly when you have glaring weaknesses in the middle of the order.:rolleyes:


You are saying the same thing over and over and yet you do not suggest what you think the team should do to help the offense.


What do you suggest?

Randar68
07-22-2005, 01:28 PM
You are saying the same thing over and over and yet you do not suggest what you think the team should do to help the offense.


What do you suggest?

ADDRESS THE MIDDLE OF THE ORDER FULL OF STRIKE-OUT .250-.275 HITTERS THAT ARE COMMONLY WASTING GREAT TOP-OF-THE-ORDER PLAY BY PODS AND GOOCH...


DO I have to repeat this YET AGAIN? Sheeesh. Crede and Uribe are there for defense, and unless you can get Scott Rolen, ARod, Chavez type player, what the hell is the point?

CHISOXFAN13
07-22-2005, 01:28 PM
I suggest all ridiculous trade threads/ideas be banished because they are getting beyond tiresome.

If WIlliams could improve the team he would. He's shown his ability to be aggressive in the past. If there's a deal, he'll make it. Geez.

GAsoxfan
07-22-2005, 01:44 PM
ADDRESS THE MIDDLE OF THE ORDER FULL OF STRIKE-OUT .250-.275 HITTERS THAT ARE COMMONLY WASTING GREAT TOP-OF-THE-ORDER PLAY BY PODS AND GOOCH...


DO I have to repeat this YET AGAIN?

I think he's talking about mentioning specific names, not just saying the Sox need to address the middle of the order.

MIgrenade
07-22-2005, 01:58 PM
There is no question that PK can't hit in the clutch and needs to be hitting better over all. But I am becoming more convinced that Uribe is not going to work. This is an upgrade that can be made quite easily. It would require taking on more money for Visquel rather than giving up prospects.
The middle of the order is harder to fix. If you can get Overbay, that has to be looked into. More than anything they need stability. I keep thinking they need to put out their best lineup but I don't even know what that is. I don't think Ozzie knows either.

Last night I got yelled at for being on the ledge and everything because I'm spouting doom and gloom. The only problems I see in the playoffs revolve around PK, Uribe, and Thomas. But if you can turn the lineup over better then Scotty and Iguchi can drive in some runs too, which can only help PK.
This is why I can't be GM. I don't know what to do.

Randar68
07-22-2005, 02:08 PM
There is no question that PK can't hit in the clutch and needs to be hitting better over all. But I am becoming more convinced that Uribe is not going to work. This is an upgrade that can be made quite easily. It would require taking on more money for Visquel rather than giving up prospects.
The middle of the order is harder to fix. If you can get Overbay, that has to be looked into. More than anything they need stability. I keep thinking they need to put out their best lineup but I don't even know what that is. I don't think Ozzie knows either.

Last night I got yelled at for being on the ledge and everything because I'm spouting doom and gloom. The only problems I see in the playoffs revolve around PK, Uribe, and Thomas. But if you can turn the lineup over better then Scotty and Iguchi can drive in some runs too, which can only help PK.
This is why I can't be GM. I don't know what to do.

Ok, so you acquire Vizquel... Where do you hit him? #9? You make him the #2 hitter and move Iguchi into the #6 slot? Then what does the bottom of the order look like???

Heck, I still say acquire Griffey. You have the DH option at least some of the time and have a back-up plan in AAA should it be required. Rowand is serviceable, but again, not irreplaceable.

I am fine with Uribe for the remainder of the season, but I am not opposed to looking for an upgrade there in the offseason.

1B, SS, and a middle of the order stud should be offseason priorities, IMO.

GAsoxfan
07-22-2005, 02:21 PM
Ok, so you acquire Vizquel... Where do you hit him? #9? You make him the #2 hitter and move Iguchi into the #6 slot? Then what does the bottom of the order look like???



Podsednik
Vizquel
Rowand
Everett/Thomas
Dye
Konerko
AJ
Crede
Iguchi

or

Podsednik
Vizquel
Iguchi
Everett/Thomas
Dye
Rowand
Konerko
AJ
Crede

Randar68
07-22-2005, 02:33 PM
Podsednik
Vizquel
Rowand
Everett/Thomas
Dye
Konerko
AJ
Crede
Iguchi

or

Podsednik
Vizquel
Iguchi
Everett/Thomas
Dye
Rowand
Konerko
AJ
Crede

And neither of these touches on the utter incompetencies in the middle of the order... aka... our biggest offensive weakness as a team. YOu gonna be the one to tell Pauly he's going to be the new #7 hitter? Good luck on that one.

A_ROW33
07-22-2005, 02:40 PM
There are no real upgrades to crede available. Also it is not inconceivable to win with a weak hitting ss, look at the 03 marlins if you need an example. Does anyone know who played ss for the 01 dbacks? was it womack or Jay bell, or some other loser? I mean a good hitting ss is not a make or break scenerio. The mets made it to the series with Rey Ordonez for crying out loud. The good Atlanta teams in the mid 90s had Rafeal belliard. If I see any trend there it is that you need a ss who can pick it.

Don't get me wrong Omar would be a good addition to this team, he plays the game the right way, can bunt, steal, put the ball in play, and makes the plays on defense. However as said earlier you need to address the middle of the order Everett, Konerko, Dye Rowand, and the pitching, particularly the pen.

Jjav829
07-22-2005, 02:42 PM
I demand a trade for Albert Pujols.


....What?

GAsoxfan
07-22-2005, 03:00 PM
And neither of these touches on the utter incompetencies in the middle of the order... aka... our biggest offensive weakness as a team.

Maybe not, but I don't really see many possibilites to upgrade that are outside of Paul and Frank picking it up. Griffey would be a great addition, but considering how highly the Reds are valuing there players, they'd probably want Buehrle and Garcia for him.

Adding Vizquel would be a significant upgrade offensively over Uribe, and while it may not be a middle of the order upgrade, it would be an overall upgrade, which always helps. Vizquel would upgrade the #2 spot (Iguchi has been good this year, but Vizquel is still better) and Iguchi would give the Sox a good hitter at the #9 spot, upgrading the top and bottom of the order.




YOu gonna be the one to tell Pauly he's going to be the new #7 hitter? Good luck on that one.

Luckily it would be Ozzie who would tell him, and I don't think Ozzie has a problem telling anybody anything.

Rocklive99
07-22-2005, 03:02 PM
Luckily it would be Ozzie who would tell him, and I don't think Ozzie has a problem telling anybody anything.

:walnuts

Jerry Manuel is the best manager I've ever had

gr8mexico
07-22-2005, 03:17 PM
The problem is that there is no good players out there that can make a huge difference on this team. Everyone wants to make trades but for Who?I think if the Sox can make a great offer for Todd Helton That would be great. That's if the Rockies want to trade Helton. But send them Konerko,Brandon & Vizcaino for Helton. Helton would make a huge difference in the lineup.

Tekijawa
07-22-2005, 03:19 PM
Go back to Russia Hippee!

BanditJimmy
07-22-2005, 03:29 PM
The only reason I started this thread was because I believe that Vizquel would be a pretty easy cheap fix for many problems.


Getting Vizquel gives you a solid glove which IMO is still an upgrade over Uribe (and Uribe has been spectacular so far). He also gives you a smart hitter who doesn't swing for the fences like the rest of the guys in this line-up. Having Iguch our Vizquel hitting ninth in the order is a huge thing for this team in order to turn the line-up over more often. Vizquel has played many big games in his career and knows how to win.



Your bench becomes even better now if Uribe is your utility man in place of Ozuna and Harris. Uribe is not a major league starter but a solid Utility man IMO

Daver
07-22-2005, 03:32 PM
I demand a trade for Albert Pujols.


....What?

Grab Vlad Guerero too.

Tekijawa
07-22-2005, 03:33 PM
Go back to Russia Hippee!

I stand by my previous statement!

and

I don't want Vizquel!

maurice
07-22-2005, 03:36 PM
Uribe is not a major league starter but a solid Utility man IMO

:?:
I have no problem with acquiring Vizquel, but Uribe has been a major league starter for years now. People forget that he played 3 years in Colorado, starting at age 21. Heck he just turned 26 today, has a career AVE over .260, and plays Gold Glove defense at the second most important defensive position. He's going to start somewhere in MLB for most of the next 10 years . . . probably for us.


:happybday , Juan.

BanditJimmy
07-22-2005, 04:03 PM
:?:
I have no problem with acquiring Vizquel, but Uribe has been a major league starter for years now. People forget that he played 3 years in Colorado, starting at age 21. Heck he just turned 26 today, has a career AVE over .260, and plays Gold Glove defense at the second most important defensive position. He's going to start somewhere in MLB for most of the next 10 years . . . probably for us.


:happybday , Juan.


So we need not to worry. He's only riding a 3 1/2 month slump and should snap right out of it soon.

OK

nodiggity59
07-22-2005, 04:05 PM
I like Uribe. Hope we keep him the duration of his deal, maybe longer.

That said, I hope he breaks his leg tomorrow so we can get Vizquel for the Pennant race. Won't happen though.

illinibk
07-22-2005, 05:22 PM
Vizquel would upgrade the #2 spot (Iguchi has been good this year, but Vizquel is still better) and Iguchi would give the Sox a good hitter at the #9 spot, upgrading the top and bottom of the order.
How do you know he would be better than Iguchi? Would he sacrifice himself as much as Iguchi has for the benefit of Pods? I'm not so sure. I think I would like him better hitting 9th. But I have to agree with Randar, no sense in improving the bottom of the line-up, work on the middle first.

The problem is that there is no good players out there that can make a huge difference on this team. Everyone wants to make trades but for Who?I think if the Sox can make a great offer for Todd Helton That would be great. That's if the Rockies want to trade Helton. But send them Konerko,Brandon & Vizcaino for Helton. Helton would make a huge difference in the lineup.
I would take that trade in a second.

GAsoxfan
07-22-2005, 05:35 PM
How do you know he would be better than Iguchi? Would he sacrifice himself as much as Iguchi has for the benefit of Pods? I'm not so sure. I think I would like him better hitting 9th.

Well, since Vizquel has been a great #2 hitter for a long time in the league, I think he knows how to handle the situation. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to Vizquel batting 9th either.


But I have to agree with Randar, no sense in improving the bottom of the line-up, work on the middle first.



Who do you want to get to improve the middle of the lineup? People keep saying it, but don't give any scenarios. I'm all for improving the middle of the order, but I'm not seeing many realistic options for doing that. Plus, I don't get the argument about it making no sense to improve the bottom of the lineup. Having better hitters in your lineup is going to improve your offense, no matter where they bat. You're telling me it doesn't make sense to replace a guy with a .266 OBP with a guy with a .357 OBP? Is that what you're saying?

maurice
07-22-2005, 06:18 PM
So we need not to worry. He's only riding a 3 1/2 month slump and should snap right out of it soon.

Good point. I agree . . . except that it's a <3 month slump, not 3 1/2. He hit .286 in April.

Uribe was extremely streaky last year, as well:
April - .393
May - .303
June - .222
July - .123
August - .289
September - .353

It probably has something to do with that ridiculous swing.

Any way you cut it, a 26 year old SS who can hit .260 and play Gold Glove defense in MLB is a starter for some team, probably ours.

gogosox35
07-22-2005, 06:30 PM
Omar Vizquel.

Before everyone goes and attacks me about the chemisty being upset by making a move for a guy that has the reputation of being a jerk, I just don't think Juan Uribe is a consistent enough hitter to be playing every day. I don't understand why people bash Joe Crede while there seems to be a love affair with Uribe. Uribe makes more flashy plays than crede, especially with his arm, but Crede is far more consistent and has better numbers.

Vizquel has been everywhere, he has faced the postseason pressure, and has even played in a world series. He has just as good of glove if not better than Uribe, and well.....just compare their numbers.

Vizquel, .300 BA, .357 OBP, 14 steals, 30 walks, 28 strikeouts, 20 doubles, 45 runs, 101 hits
Uribe, .233 BA, .266 OBP, 2 steals, 15 walks, 46 strikeouts, 12 doubles, 27 runs, 62 hits.

I understand Uribe can hit the ball out of the park at any time, but fact is he only has 7 homers. Vizquel has little power, but is a much more consistent player the sox need in the 8/9 hole. If Iguchi goes into a prolonged slump, Vizquel can also hit in the 2 hole.

munchman33
07-22-2005, 06:31 PM
You're new here, so I'll be nice about it. But this thread belongs in the "What's the Score" forum.

Crede_For_Me
07-22-2005, 06:41 PM
I dont want Vizquel, and why would you want him anyway? Crede is fine and so is uribe stats don't tell everything so just chill out and watch is get a picher or no one. Our offense is fine.

TornLabrum
07-22-2005, 07:04 PM
Let's get Vizquel, Vizquel
I wanna get Vizquel, let's get Omar Vizquel
Let me hear the GMs talk,
The GMs talk, let me hear the GMs talk

Crede_For_Me
07-22-2005, 07:06 PM
Let's get Vizquel, Vizquel
I wanna get Vizquel, let's get Omar Vizquel
Let me hear the GMs talk,
The GMs talk, let me the GMs talk

Ok, A little wierd. Hey I like the name Voodoochill.:smile:

scottjanssens
07-22-2005, 07:36 PM
stats don't tell everything

No, but they're pretty good at telling when people don't get on base.

chaerulez
07-23-2005, 01:48 AM
I can no longer take the lack of production from the bottom of the order.

SS or 3B MUST be upgraded by Kenny before the deadline.



In order, here is my list of desperate needs for this team:



1. Another Stick == 3B or SS

2. Closer == although Cotts, Pollite, & Marte can do the job for now. And hope Hermanson can get back healthy.

3. Starting pitcher (but I can live with what we have)





But number 1 is to get a stick to play on the left side of the infield.



Defensively, except for last night, I have no complains about Crede and Uribe. But their atrocious hitting this year totally negates that.



I propose to trade a top prospect such as Anderson or Sweeney (not McCarthy) for Omar Vizquel of the Giants. With Vizquel we are not losing anything defensively. A platoon of Uribe and Crede at 3B is fine with me. If you recall, Uribe played a more spectacular 3B last season than he did SS. Bringing in Vizquel who is a current .300 hitter would work wonders on this line-up. If we plug him in the 2 hole and move Iguchi to 9 and allow Iguchi to swing freely, this could only improve his game even more.



My line up:

Pods

Vizquel

Rowand

Konerko

Everett

Dye

AJ

Crede/ Uribe

Iguchi





I love Frank Thomas as much as the next guy on this board, but he should hang them up for this year and hope to come back strong next season. Unless he can accept a pinch hit only role the rest of the way, the line-up needs to be set for the rest of the year.

Using the enter key properly will work out the best for everyone here.