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View Full Version : Huge Prediction: Deal Announced After This Sunday's Game


Brian26
07-22-2005, 10:42 AM
KW seems to get things done over the weekend. His big deals seem to usually get announced after Sunday games. I just have a hunch something is going to go down this weekend....it will be announced after Sunday's game.

balke
07-22-2005, 10:44 AM
They just announced on the score that Shingo and Jenks have been traded for Wagner!!!




















Okay, not really.

Kogs35
07-22-2005, 10:50 AM
They just announced on the score that Shingo and Jenks have been traded for Wagner!!! Okay, not really.

knowing the score that wouldnt suprise me one bit

ChiSoxPatF
07-22-2005, 10:51 AM
Kenny does have a knack for flair. He tends to like to announce big deals at big times:
Lofton signing at Sox fest 2002
Ozzie's contract extension at the first Dodgers game
Garcia trade during Cubs series

I'm too lazy to go on but thats the point. This seems to be a fitting time for the Sox to go out an acquire a bigname pitcher: right when they are in a 4 game set against the defending world champions and the entire world is watching the series closely. I'd say before the series is over SOMETHING will go down (i'd almost go out on a limb and say BEFORE Sunday since Jose is schedule to pitch then and if they got a starter that may be the starter's debut).

Baby Fisk
07-22-2005, 10:52 AM
I've already taken some beatings over Crede today, but I had a premonition last night that he will figure in a deal in the near future. Don't beat me any more! It was just a premonition...

RKMeibalane
07-22-2005, 11:01 AM
I've already taken some beatings over Crede today, but I had a premonition last night that he will figure in a deal in the near future. Don't beat me any more! It was just a premonition...

If things keep going the way they are, "you know who" might have to make an appearance. He's been able to stay away from the board because the Sox have been winning, but with the recent troll problems, he might be coming back.

Randar68
07-22-2005, 11:02 AM
I'm too lazy to go on but thats the point. This seems to be a fitting time for the Sox to go out an acquire a bigname pitcher: right when they are in a 4 game set against the defending world champions and the entire world is watching the series closely. I'd say before the series is over SOMETHING will go down (i'd almost go out on a limb and say BEFORE Sunday since Jose is schedule to pitch then and if they got a starter that may be the starter's debut).

I'm legitimately curious why we need another pitcher. With Garland, Buehrle, and Garcia, unless you can land a true and legit #1 pitcher (of which the only "possibly" available Clemens really qualifies IMO), why do we need another starter now? Aren't we pretty damn sure we're in the playoffs? You only need 3 starters in the playoffs, really.

Unless Kenny can land Wagner or PERHAPS a guy like Guardado (although I think they need another RH arm more than a lefty arm if Marte is healthy), shouldn't Kenny be more interested in improving our anemic offense? Particularly the middle of the order?

I am just legitimately curious where people think the priorities should be. For me, it's:

0) Legit #1 Ace (made #0 because I don't see anyone available we could land)
1) Back end of the Bullpen pitcher (closer-type veteran)
2) Middle order hitter...
3) Utility IF'er
4) Starter

balke
07-22-2005, 11:11 AM
This won't go over well, but what would you guys think if we able to trade for Wood cheap, and put him or El Duque in the Bullpen?

Baby Fisk
07-22-2005, 11:16 AM
This won't go over well, but what would you guys think if we able to trade for Wood cheap, and put him or El Duque in the Bullpen?
With his ongoing injury problems, Wood would be qualified to catch bullpen for us, prolly not much more.

Tekijawa
07-22-2005, 11:19 AM
I am just legitimately curious where people think the priorities should be. For me, it's:

0) Legit #1 Ace (made #0 because I don't see anyone available we could land)
1) Back end of the Bullpen pitcher (closer-type veteran)
2) Middle order hitter...
3) Utility IF'er
4) Starter

I'd have to agree with you, when Play offs come around we'd probably go to a 4 man rotation anyway, and who ever we would aquire would have to Knock out either Buehrle, Garcia, Garland or Hernandez. I don't see any name that has been discussed here other than Clemens that could really do that. There fore I think a Starter is really moot at this point, unless it was a TRUE #1.

I honestly think that a Middle of the order hitter is more of a need than anything right now. I'm Sick of Konerko Poping up just about every time some one is on. He may have the best right handed swing that Hawks ever seen but he is NOT a 3/4 type hitter. Sure he has power but I'd Like a Guy that could at least hit around .300. Konerko is a better fit in the 5 hole.

Then the Last and the only thing that we would need is a Closer/Setup guy. But they must Be a top notch guy. Wagner, Guardado would be on the Very short list. I think that is ALL I would trade for, because nothing else will make us better.

So to recap, at least one of these needs to be done, and I feel NOTHING outside of these would help the team.

1. an ACE and only an ACE
2. 3/4 Hitter to bring Pods and Iguchi in!
3. Closer and ONLY a Closer, maybe not used as a closer but you get the picture!

Jjav829
07-22-2005, 11:19 AM
KW seems to get things done over the weekend. His big deals seem to usually get announced after Sunday games. I just have a hunch something is going to go down this weekend....it will be announced after Sunday's game.

The problem is that KW isn't controlling the trade market. If it was up to KW, I'm sure a deal would have been made by now. Unfortunately this years trade market is really slow moving and there aren't many deals to be made.

The Sox don't want Mike Lowell. The Marlins are still trying to exhaust all opportunities to move his contract. Until they decide they won't be able to move Lowell's contract, the Sox won't factor into the Burnett deal. Hopefully they decide that soon but it could take another week for them to decide this.

The Giants still don't seem to have made up their mind about Jason Schmidt, and they're demanding an arm and a leg to force them into changing their mind. A week from now, they might change their mind and decide it's best to settle for a little less and still have a chance to sign Schmidt back in the offseason.

The Phillies still don't seem to want to trade Wagner, unless it is for A.J. Burnett. Four or five losses in the next week could change their mind.

So the status of the three guys that KW seems most interested in is really preventing him from making a trade. I think most of the non-waiver trades this year will happen last next week as I think teams are going to go down to the last days in deciding who to trade and who not to trade. The only thing I can possibly see happening soon is a Guardado trade. The Mariners are in no situation where they have to wait to make a trade. But then again, they could wait until Wagner is traded when Guardado will become the most highly sought reliever, or until Wagner is officially off the market when teams will focus more on Guardado. So even with Guardado, it could go either way.

The problem is that right now everything hinges on the A.J. Burnett deal. Once that deal happens, I think the rest of the moves could follow quickly. Baltimore wants a starter, but they have to wait to see if they can land Burnett. The Red Sox want a reliever, but they too are waiting to see if they can land Burnett, possibly flipping him to Philadelphia for Wagner. If this Burnett deal happens soon, regardless of where he goes, then I think the Sox could pull off something quickly.

Of course, the worst case scenario would be the Red Sox land Burnett and trade him for Wagner, thus taking away two of the Sox top targets.

Flight #24
07-22-2005, 11:22 AM
0) Legit #1 Ace (made #0 because I don't see anyone available we could land)
1) Back end of the Bullpen pitcher (closer-type veteran)
2) Middle order hitter...
3) Utility IF'er
4) Starter

I like your order, except I'd rank an "insurance starter" higher than a utility IF - only because I think Ozuna's fine in that role.

A quick scan of the '05 FA hitters on non-contending teams from MLB4U.com gives this as potential guys:

- Mike Piazza (unlikely)
- Daryle Ward
- Tony Clark
- Joe Randa
- Rondell White
- Juan Encarnacion
- Matt Stairs
- Richard Hidalgo
- Matt Lawton
- Jose Cruz Jr

Fairly unappealing, wouldn't you say? Best bet's probably Rondell White, although both Clark and Ward have been hot of late. Or the oft-mentioned Randa.

The guys who'd be FAs after '06 is much more interesting: Aubrey Huff, Nick Johnson, Phil Nevin, Sean Casey, Derrek Lee, Jeff Kent, Alfonso Soriano, Pedro Feliz, Cliff Floyd, Raul Ibanez.

Taliesinrk
07-22-2005, 11:22 AM
I'm legitimately curious why we need another pitcher. With Garland, Buehrle, and Garcia, unless you can land a true and legit #1 pitcher (of which the only "possibly" available Clemens really qualifies IMO), why do we need another starter now? Aren't we pretty damn sure we're in the playoffs? You only need 3 starters in the playoffs, really.

Unless Kenny can land Wagner or PERHAPS a guy like Guardado (although I think they need another RH arm more than a lefty arm if Marte is healthy), shouldn't Kenny be more interested in improving our anemic offense? Particularly the middle of the order?

I am just legitimately curious where people think the priorities should be. For me, it's:

0) Legit #1 Ace (made #0 because I don't see anyone available we could land)
1) Back end of the Bullpen pitcher (closer-type veteran)
2) Middle order hitter...
3) Utility IF'er
4) Starter

Couldn't have put it much better.. however, I do think there is a small concern to get a SP because there is the thought that if the cubans collapse that MN isn't completely out of it yet... You said we're pretty damn sure we're in the playoffs; and while I hope this is true, it's never over till it's over. Collapses have happened before..

Jjav829
07-22-2005, 11:29 AM
I'd have to agree with you, when Play offs come around we'd probably go to a 4 man rotation anyway, and who ever we would aquire would have to Knock out either Buehrle, Garcia, Garland or Hernandez. I don't see any name that has been discussed here other than Clemens that could really do that. There fore I think a Starter is really moot at this point, unless it was a TRUE #1.


Are you actually comfortable with El Duque pitching in the playoffs? I know I'm sure as hell not. I want a 4th starter (though not a 4th starter type). If a 5-game series, sure, you can get away with 3 starters. But when you go to those 7-gamers, you're better off with 4 starters. And I still believe this team needs a power pitcher for the playoffs. Those are the types of pitchers who can truly swing a series and we don't have one right now. Well, ok, we have one but there's no way I want him starting a playoff game.

Flight #24
07-22-2005, 11:35 AM
The Giants still don't seem to have made up their mind about Jason Schmidt, and they're demanding an arm and a leg to force them into changing their mind. A week from now, they might change their mind and decide it's best to settle for a little less and still have a chance to sign Schmidt back in the offseason.



IIRC, there's a $10.25 team option on Schmidt, and I'd guess that any contender trading for him would exercise it. That's also why the Giants may not deal him - because they can keep him, get Bonds back, and make another run at it in '06.

IMO the only reason they'd trade him is if they think they can get 2-3 good players for the same $$$. For example, if they dealt Schmidt+Durham for McCarthy+Contreras+Harris, they could take the $10.25mil and throw it at Burnett and effectively turn Schmidt into 3 SPs.

NOTE: I am not suggesting, advocating, or hypothesizing that the Sox make such a trade, or that the Giants would accept it. Merely using it a hypothetical example.

sircaffey1
07-22-2005, 11:37 AM
Are you actually comfortable with El Duque pitching in the playoffs? I know I'm sure as hell not. I want a 4th starter (though not a 4th starter type). If a 5-game series, sure, you can get away with 3 starters. But when you go to those 7-gamers, you're better off with 4 starters. And I still believe this team needs a power pitcher for the playoffs. Those are the types of pitchers who can truly swing a series and we don't have one right now. Well, ok, we have one but there's no way I want him starting a playoff game.

El Duque has been horrid. I'm with you, I don't understand why everyone assumes he'll be fine in the playoffs. I would crinch if we threw him down 2-1 in game 4.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2005, 11:37 AM
With the bullpen being thin EVEN WITH Hermanson healthy...(Luis and Jenks...nuff said...) in my opinion the pen right now has moved ahead of a solid starter as the biggest need. Hell even Hermanson doesn't know when his back is going to go boinkers on him again.

That doesn't mean you must get a closer, Politte and Marte can fill the bill for a short time... however you have to have quality experienced guys in the playoffs.

Therefore again in my opinion, Williams needs to bring in another arm or two for the pen first. Better still then would be to include Luis as part of the deal. Then Jenks can go back to Triple A for more work and the new guys can take their places.

Lip

Tekijawa
07-22-2005, 11:48 AM
El Duque has been horrid. I'm with you, I don't understand why everyone assumes he'll be fine in the playoffs. I would crinch if we threw him down 2-1 in game 4.

You'd feel more comfortable with Gil Meche or Ted Lilly? Those are two of the "non-Ace" type guys that have been thrown around.

Jjav829
07-22-2005, 11:52 AM
IIRC, there's a $10.25 team option on Schmidt, and I'd guess that any contender trading for him would exercise it. That's also why the Giants may not deal him - because they can keep him, get Bonds back, and make another run at it in '06.

IMO the only reason they'd trade him is if they think they can get 2-3 good players for the same $$$. For example, if they dealt Schmidt+Durham for McCarthy+Contreras+Harris, they could take the $10.25mil and throw it at Burnett and effectively turn Schmidt into 3 SPs.

NOTE: I am not suggesting, advocating, or hypothesizing that the Sox make such a trade, or that the Giants would accept it. Merely using it a hypothetical example.

See, I disagree. I don't think many teams would be jumping to pay Schmidt $10.25 million next year, though I suppose that can't be fully decided until the end of the year. If he is traded to a team like the Sox, and he pitches like he did in previous years, then they might exercise the option. But if he pitches like he did in recent months, then I don't think any team trading for him will exercise that option. Perhaps the Giants don't want to take the risk that Schmidt starts pitching like he did in the past couple years and the team trading for him does exercise the option.

balke
07-22-2005, 11:54 AM
I wish Kenny could just blindside the nation with a Livan pick-up. We probably don't have the bargaining chips to get him, but wouldn't that be awesome? Contreras and Mccarthy for Livan? I gotta stop dreaming, but that would be a destiny type of move.

I've said since about 20 games into the season Wagner would be awesome here. I hope the Phills fall out of it, even though I hope they do well. They have a lot of young talent there, but they aren't a World Series contender. They should give up for the good of the Sox.

Madvora
07-22-2005, 11:56 AM
I don't see any reason for that at all.
KW has probably been talking to other teams for months now. I don't think that if they finally came to a decision today, that he would say, "hold onto that guy until Sunday, then I'll tell everybody about him."
Besides, once a deal is made, someone would find out about it.
He's been working his ass off to make a deal every single day because everybody is after the same guys he's after. He doesn't have the option to wait.

maurice
07-22-2005, 11:59 AM
I wish Kenny could just blindside the nation with a Livan pick-up.

The Livan who said he needs knee surgery?

Why do you think the Nats are a seller?

balke
07-22-2005, 12:04 PM
The Livan who said he needs knee surgery?

Why do you think the Nats are a seller?


I don't think they are a seller yet. I think maybe they should think about it. Livan is a big reason they are where they are. It sounds more like he's sick of playing for the Nats, someone said he's upset about Cordero being sent down.

I don't think its possible, it would just be awesome. I keep dreaming cause they were so willing to dump Ohka when he ran his mouth.

maurice
07-22-2005, 12:13 PM
I don't think they are a seller yet.

That's a safe bet, since they're tied for 1st place.

I don't think its possible, it would just be awesome.

We have a color for that.

balke
07-22-2005, 12:21 PM
That's a safe bet, since they're tied for 1st place.



We have a color for that.


They also are on a 4-11 skid, Atlanta just had hudson come back, they are about to lose Livan. If it wasn't for the wild card, they may as well start thinking of moving players. Anyone in thier division can make a great run and knock them out of the Wild Card race as well. I expect Florida to turn things around soon. There's no excuse for their play so far.


I expressed the color in words, people can read too. like when I use the actual word "dream". instead of a color representing "pipedream". Lighten up.

Stroker Ace
07-22-2005, 01:12 PM
This won't go over well, but what would you guys think if we able to trade for Wood cheap, and put him or El Duque in the Bullpen?Yeah, the Sox need to pick up some wins in the simulated AL Central

maurice
07-22-2005, 01:26 PM
They also are on a 4-11 skid, Atlanta just had hudson come back, they are about to lose Livan.

So you're theory is that they might be willing to trade Livan because they are about to lose Livan?
:kukoo:

BTW, it's July 22. They'd need to lose every game between now and the deadline to even arguably fall out of contention.

:reinsy
"Anybody who thinks Washington
can catch Atlanta is crazy."

GAsoxfan
07-22-2005, 01:30 PM
They also are on a 4-11 skid, Atlanta just had hudson come back, they are about to lose Livan.

And Chipper.

balke
07-22-2005, 01:46 PM
So you're theory is that they might be willing to trade Livan because they are about to lose Livan?
:kukoo:

BTW, it's July 22. They'd need to lose every game between now and the deadline to even arguably fall out of contention.

:reinsy
"Anybody who thinks Washington
can catch Atlanta is crazy."


Maybe you're a Nationals fan or something, but if you think they are actually in contention with Loaiza and Patterson as their best pitchers, you're a little too optimistic about their chances. Preston Wilson is going to do nothing for their chances.

And again, I said It would be awesome IF it would happen, and I said I know it would NOT happen. Teams aren't allowed to give up with a lead in the wild card, and I know that, so read what I'm writing. I just want Kenny to pull off a trade that noone talked about in the media, out of nowhere grab a #1 pitcher or a top teir SS.

It would be really cool if the Sox Could get Livan, that's all I'm saying. And overall, it might be a good idea for the Nationals to try and trade him if he's unhappy there. Didn't he mention retirement or something? There's some serious issues there. I would say Anderson could be a player for the future for them, but they have Byrd already, and now they went and picked up Wilson, and have Wilkerson. So, there's no need there. No, its not going to happen. I'd like it to though.

The Nats are done IMO. Or they will be soon.

maurice
07-22-2005, 02:22 PM
Maybe you're a Nationals fan or something, but if you think they are actually in contention with Loaiza and Patterson as their best pitchers, you're a little too optimistic about their chances.

Sorry, but I don't think it's "too optimiostic" to believe that a 1st place team is in contention. That's true by definition. Besides, it doesn't matter what any of us think. It matters what the Nats think, since that determines whether they're buyers or sellers. That's my only point.

I just want Kenny to pull off a trade that noone talked about in the media, out of nowhere grab a #1 pitcher or a top teir SS.

IMHO, if he does anything, it will be something really, really big.

Didn't he mention retirement or something?

I don't think so. His most recent comment was that he needs knee surgery but will try to tough it out for the rest of the season. The guy's obviously a horse.

LVSoxFan
07-22-2005, 05:16 PM
Why would we trade Crede's glove at 3B? Sure he's a streaky/inconsistent hitter but his defense--save for last night--is awesome. That always becomes apparent when Ozuna plays third and usually misses two catches Crede would have made.

People also forget that last night until he dropped the ball, he was the clutch hit who put us back in it.

The left infield is maddening because him and Uribe are so good as fielders, but totally annoying at the plate. Uribe especially. You could throw it at his head and he'd still swing. He should go up with a tennis racket instead of a bat.

Seeing that the team is supposedly built around pitching, speed and defense, Crede and Uribe both definitely supply the "D". Yes I wish they hit better. But nobody on the team is exactly lighting it up at the plate, and we've gotten this far. The Go Go Sox comparison isn't all that far off.

But I honestly don't know who we would trade and for what. I say starting pitcher, but people here have made good arguments about why we wouldn't need that going to a four man rotation in the playoffs.

Here's a wild thought: maybe Konerko? Because then you'd stick Gload at first and now we have another left-handed bat. I only say Konerko because that would free up a lot of money and future money come contract time.

On the other hand, you're talking about trading away a longtime Sox fixture who plays good defense in the middle of a record-setting season.

I dunno.

A_ROW33
07-22-2005, 05:19 PM
Honestly Trading Konerko makes some sense since so many teams still think they have a chance of making the playoffs. I would not be surprised to see him going to the phillies for billy wagner, especially with Thome's slumps and injuries this year.

ThatGuyOnTheL
07-22-2005, 08:50 PM
With his ongoing injury problems, Wood would be qualified to catch bullpen for us, prolly not much more.

Man Soo Lee is three times the man, let alone the bullpen catcher, that Carrie Woods will ever be :D:

Tragg
07-23-2005, 12:26 AM
I'm legitimately curious why we need another pitcher. With Garland, Buehrle, and Garcia, unless you can land a true and legit #1 pitcher (of which the only "possibly" available Clemens really qualifies IMO), why do we need another starter now? Aren't we pretty damn sure we're in the playoffs? You only need 3 starters in the playoffs, really.

Unless Kenny can land Wagner or PERHAPS a guy like Guardado (although I think they need another RH arm more than a lefty arm if Marte is healthy), shouldn't Kenny be more interested in improving our anemic offense? Particularly the middle of the order?

I am just legitimately curious where people think the priorities should be. For me, it's:

0) Legit #1 Ace (made #0 because I don't see anyone available we could land)
1) Back end of the Bullpen pitcher (closer-type veteran)
2) Middle order hitter...
3) Utility IF'er
4) Starter

I tend to agree with you - I don't see the point of putting so many resources and talent for a pitcher who won't crack our top 3 (Ahem, Burnett).
We do need a middle reliever -of course, these days, clubs with middle relievers on the block price them as if they are stud closers; the Jays pitcher that is supposedly on the block is the quintessential mediocre veteran relief pitcher who's having a good year - everyone says that they expect maximium price for him. It's a tough, tough market. And you know it's a tough market when Cincy wants 2 top prospects for career stiff, joe randa.

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 12:42 AM
People also forget that last night until he dropped the ball, he was the clutch hit who put us back in it.



Thank you.

Mr. White Sox
07-23-2005, 01:05 AM
I would crinch if we threw him down 2-1 in game 4.

I have never crinched before, but I cringe at the thought.

I (mostly) agree with you Tragg, except I would put getting a utility IF/good #2 hitter ahead of getting a middle of the order type. Harris is just not major-league material offensively, and should be sent back to the minors. If the Sox can land someone in the Julio Lugo mold (Good #2 hitter, good speed, plays 2B/SS, average/below average defensively) he could spell uribe or Iguchi, and when spelling Uribe, he could hit in the #2 and Iguchi could hit in the 8 or 9 spot and act as an Adam Kennedy with more power. I am perfectly fine with Crede at third, as he is 1. Hitting .250 and 2. The best defensive option at 3B...bringing a good #2 in could end the issue of a lack of production in the bottom of the order with Crede and Uribe.

A middle of the order type is pretty important, as PK has just not come through in the 4 spot. Put him in the five and get a quality cleanup, and it's hello runs time.

A veteran closer-type is the most important need right now, as the Sox bullpen is either young (Jenks/Cotts), injured (Hermanson), unreliable (Vizcaino), or not used to closing/not a great closer (Marte, Politte). Hermanson will probably not be completely healthy for the rest of the year, so getting a quality bpen arm is pretty important.

A starter really isn't a huge need, especially when you consider the guys out there. Schmidt is either a #1/2 or a #4 depending on how he is (2003/2004 Schmidt or inconsistant Schmidt?), and I'd rather not trade away some key parts for him. Burnett is even more inconsistant and isn't worthy of a look, especially when the Marlins ask for Contreras+Marte+McCarthy. No thanks. The other guys available can't even compare to Contreras or El Duque, so I think the Sox are pretty good at the SP spot.