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View Full Version : Sox still no. 1 in ESPN Rankings


CubsfansareDRUNK
07-20-2005, 11:43 PM
And have been for the last 4 weeks.
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/teamlogos/mlb/sml/trans/chw.gif 1. Chicago White Sox (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw): Think Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland have been good? Freddy Garcia has won five straight decisions and is 6-1 with a 2.44 ERA on the road.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?page=powerrank_week15
(Despite todays loss, obviously)

batmanZoSo
07-20-2005, 11:45 PM
We're number one in the standings, too, if that matters. :wink:

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-20-2005, 11:59 PM
We're number one in the standings, too, if that matters. :wink:

well that too :D::D:

Mr. White Sox
07-21-2005, 12:05 AM
We're also #1 in the ESPN lack-of-knowledge doghouse.

John Kruk: "I've always thought the White Sox defense is their achilles heel."

itsnotrequired
07-21-2005, 07:04 AM
We're also #1 in the ESPN lack-of-knowledge doghouse.

John Kruk: "I've always thought the White Sox defense is their achilles heel."

How long ago did he say this? Before yesterday's game, the Sox led the AL in fielding percentage and were tied with the Rangers for fewest errors. They were also tied with Oakland for third most double plays turned. As far as individuals go, Crede is second among AL third basemen in fielding percentage and AJ is number one.

No defense? Get it together, Kruk.

balke
07-21-2005, 07:12 AM
Harold Reynolds said it, and its probably cause he hasn't watched a White Sox game since last season. Ever since we got rid of Valenstache, the Defense has been terrific. Iguchi, Crede, Uribe? Konerko picks just about anything out of the dirt as well. Then we have Dye and Rowand in the outfield, and a lot of range in LF. Sox D is great.

TornLabrum
07-21-2005, 07:19 AM
Harold Reynolds said it, and its probably cause he hasn't watched a White Sox game since last season. Ever since we got rid of Valenstache, the Defense has been terrific. Iguchi, Crede, Uribe? Konerko picks just about anything out of the dirt as well. Then we have Dye and Rowand in the outfield, and a lot of range in LF. Sox D is great.

Plus it also helps when the official scorer gives hits on misplays like the one Crede made Tuesday night.

itsnotrequired
07-21-2005, 07:22 AM
Plus it also helps when the official scorer gives hits on misplays like the one Crede made Tuesday night.

One extra error isn't going to put the team over the edge. I smell a conspiracy to help the Sox get better numbers!

The only guess I can come up with is that he meant that if our defense suffers, the team will suffer. Well no kidding! That's like saying Boston wouldn't be as good a team if their offense was struggling. Stupid comment.

SOXintheBURGH
07-21-2005, 07:38 AM
Plus it also helps when the official scorer gives hits on misplays like the one Crede made Tuesday night.

My grandfather was at the park when DiMaggio was going for I believe games 51 and 52 of his hitting streak. In the 3rd, he hit a liner to short that got bobbled and misplayed as an error, and the scorer gave Joe the hit.. the crowd when berserk with boos as they were hoping to see the streak end at the game, struck out his next two AB. Crowd was still going nuts about it. Top of the 9th, he hit a double off the wall.

balke
07-21-2005, 07:40 AM
Plus it also helps when the official scorer gives hits on misplays like the one Crede made Tuesday night.

I've seen Chavez get the same AND WORSE calls than that just against the Sox. He has 8 more errors than Crede. One uncalled error doesn't eliminate Crede's stellar defensive play this season, nor do the 12 errors of Chavez make him bad defensively. Crede made that same pick off a hard liner that took a big hop in the dirt just one day earlier. Judging by the official scoring, he robbed that batter of a HIT.

As far as an Assists/Errors ratio, the only everyday third baseman doing better defensively than Crede is Blalock that I can tell. Its fine if you want to hate on Crede's hitting, but you just look ill-informed dissing his D.

TornLabrum
07-21-2005, 07:57 AM
I've seen Chavez get the same AND WORSE calls than that just against the Sox. He has 8 more errors than Crede. One uncalled error doesn't eliminate Crede's stellar defensive play this season, nor do the 12 errors of Chavez make him bad defensively. Crede made that same pick off a hard liner that took a big hop in the dirt just one day earlier. Judging by the official scoring, he robbed that batter of a HIT.

As far as an Assists/Errors ratio, the only everyday third baseman doing better defensively than Crede is Blalock that I can tell. Its fine if you want to hate on Crede's hitting, but you just look ill-informed dissing his D.

Boy, did you miss my point! I'm not criticizing Crede's defense. I'm criticizing using the number of errors as a way to rank defense because of the practice of official scorers who favor the home team. The practice is prevalent throughout the league. What generally happens is plays like Crede's (where he let the ball play him), are scored as hits when the home player misses the play. If it were the Tigers' third baseman missing the play, it probably would have also been scored a hit to help out the home-team players BA.

It probably all averages out, but scoring is a joke no matter how you look at it. I've seen at least a half dozen plays this year just in games I've been to that I was about to write E in my scorebook until I looked up and saw H as the official scoring.

balke
07-21-2005, 08:01 AM
Boy, did you miss my point! I'm not criticizing Crede's defense. I'm criticizing using the number of errors as a way to rank defense because of the practice of official scorers who favor the home team. The practice is prevalent throughout the league. What generally happens is plays like Crede's (where he let the ball play him), are scored as hits when the home player misses the play. If it were the Tigers' third baseman missing the play, it probably would have also been scored a hit to help out the home-team players BA.

It probably all averages out, but scoring is a joke no matter how you look at it. I've seen at least a half dozen plays this year just in games I've been to that I was about to write E in my scorebook until I looked up and saw H as the official scoring.

Sorry, you never know around here with the hate some have for Crede. I totally agree though, Errors don't mean much to me. You don't like to see them, but there's no stat for robbed hit or turned double play that most people couldn't have done. There's no easy way to weed out the best defender on a scorecard.

TornLabrum
07-21-2005, 08:08 AM
Sorry, you never know around here with the hate some have for Crede. I totally agree though, Errors don't mean much to me. You don't like to see them, but there's no stat for robbed hit or turned double play that most people couldn't have done. There's no easy way to weed out the best defender on a scorecard.

I'm firmly in the pro-Crede camp. In fact, I'm of the opinion if he can shorten his slumps so that they don't last a month or more at a time, he'll end up being a pretty decent fielder in addition to being one of the better defensive third basemen in the game.

fquaye149
07-21-2005, 09:19 AM
Boy, did you miss my point! I'm not criticizing Crede's defense. I'm criticizing using the number of errors as a way to rank defense because of the practice of official scorers who favor the home team. The practice is prevalent throughout the league. What generally happens is plays like Crede's (where he let the ball play him), are scored as hits when the home player misses the play. If it were the Tigers' third baseman missing the play, it probably would have also been scored a hit to help out the home-team players BA.

It probably all averages out, but scoring is a joke no matter how you look at it. I've seen at least a half dozen plays this year just in games I've been to that I was about to write E in my scorebook until I looked up and saw H as the official scoring.

Lack of errors are a worthless argument for good defense. That is, you can never say "Carlos Lee should have won the gold glove this year: He had ZERO errors in left!" HOWEVER having many errors can mean bad things, a la Chavez's decline in defense this year.

I've seen him play throughout these past few years and this year he has clearly lost a step, and I think those errors reflect that.

scottjanssens
07-21-2005, 10:00 AM
My grandfather was at the park when DiMaggio was going for I believe games 51 and 52 of his hitting streak. In the 3rd, he hit a liner to short that got bobbled and misplayed as an error, and the scorer gave Joe the hit.. the crowd when berserk with boos as they were hoping to see the streak end at the game, struck out his next two AB. Crowd was still going nuts about it. Top of the 9th, he hit a double off the wall.

Anyone remember the no hitter the Yankees lost to the Sox 4-0 (Andy somthing-or-other pitched for the Yanks). That hinged on a hit changed to an "error" on the Yankee right fielder. It should have stayed a hit.

itsnotrequired
07-21-2005, 10:08 AM
It probably all averages out, but scoring is a joke no matter how you look at it. I've seen at least a half dozen plays this year just in games I've been to that I was about to write E in my scorebook until I looked up and saw H as the official scoring.

The scoring rules are set up to allow for that human element. A hit is awarded if the player couldn't field the ball with "normal effort". Normal for who? That particular player or players in general? Are Gold Glove-calibar players held to a higher standard than other players?

Yeah, Crede could have made that bad hop play but how many other third basemen could have made it? Besides, the scorer is supposed to give the benefit to the hitter.

CubKilla
07-21-2005, 10:10 AM
We're also #1 in the ESPN lack-of-knowledge doghouse.

John Kruk: "I've always thought the White Sox defense is their achilles heel."

Guys like you are just as bad as the so-called "dark clouds". ESPN finally say something complimentary about the Sox and you nit-pick it by reaching for some obscure, anti-White Sox reference from BBTN.

ChiSoxPatF
07-21-2005, 10:22 AM
The national baseball experts have been dogging the Sox defense for years despite the significant upgrades they've made each of the last two or three years. This team has an absolutely stellar defense now - tons of range in LFand CF, a gun in RF, Crede is great, Uribe and Iguchi are one of the better double play combination we've had in decades (defensively obviously), and Pierzynski isn't bad.

I guess since these people can't watch every game they tend to make an assumption and it sticks for a few years. Defense is something you need to evaluate over the course of a year, not a few games, so the only teams they can evaluate accurately defensively are the BoSox and Yankees. I guess thats just the way it all works out and, while it ticks me off, I guess I can't blame them for being ignorant to our situation.

ktssox
07-21-2005, 10:37 AM
The only guess I can come up with is that he meant that if our defense suffers, the team will suffer. Well no kidding! That's like saying Boston wouldn't be as good a team if their offense was struggling. Stupid comment.

I wish that were the case. He said (after stating that everyone needs pitching) that if he were the GM of the White Sox, he'd try to get some extra defense because defense has always been their achilles heel. He'd like to see someone they could put in late in the game, possibly at short stop, for some added defense. He must have forgotten that Valentin is gone.

EDIT: I just realized, after reading other threads, that he said this last night on BBTN and this morning on Mike and Mike. I don't know which the original poster was referring to, but I heard it on M&M.

scottjanssens
07-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Griping about Kruk and ESPN is like griping about the rain. They can't hear you and they're not going to change. In the meantime you should ignore them and take running dives on the tarp.