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Chicago83
07-20-2005, 02:43 AM
I was watching a show on ESPN where they had two guys from a radio station in Atlanta, they said that the Reds were looking to move Griffey and that the White Sox and Yankees were the likely suitors. Has anyone else heard this rumor. I know some journalist had suggested the sox get Griffey but nowhere have I seen that we actually have interest in him.

If the sox were to deal you have to figure Rowand would be invloved. What do you think? Is it worth giving up Aaron to see a 1-2 punch of Griffey-Thomas?

JermaineDye05
07-20-2005, 02:47 AM
not in my opinion

Optipessimism
07-20-2005, 02:50 AM
I'd give up Rowand in a heartbeat for Griffey if he wasn't an injury waiting to happen and wasn't owed tons of money over a very long period of time.

But, if that were the case, they'd probably want something like Garland, Rowand, Politte and Marte.

Chicago83
07-20-2005, 03:14 AM
not in my opinion

I would hate to see Aaron go, but I can't deny that Griffey would be a huge offensive upgrade. If you're thinking long term then you got to keep Rowand, if you want to go for broke in '05 then get Griffey.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-20-2005, 07:56 AM
I would hate to see Aaron go, but I can't deny that Griffey would be a huge offensive upgrade. If you're thinking long term then you got to keep Rowand, if you want to go for broke in '05 then get Griffey.

At what cost? He's been bitten by the injury bug quite a few times. I agree that in a season like this, you go for broke...but IMO, Aaron HAS the fielding skills Jr. has lost over the past few years. You won't see the dives or slams into the wall anymore from him. Offensively, yes, it would be great to have a power hitter from the left side of the plate, but if his defense is par (at best), what are we really gaining?

harwar
07-20-2005, 08:06 AM
I think that the yankees are a perfect fit,but if Big Frank is hurting more than he's let on because he wants to be a part of this thing,than i can see KW getting serious about him.

Madvora
07-20-2005, 08:27 AM
No chance. Focus on the important issue of bullpen help.
We don't have a problem with Aaron out there.

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-20-2005, 09:16 AM
No chance. Focus on the important issue of bullpen help.
We don't have a problem with Aaron out there.

I concur. Pitching, not a bat with weak fielding skills, please.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2005, 09:24 AM
These rumours have floated for a few years because more than anything else, the Reds want to get out from under Griffey's contract.

If I were Kenny Williams, I'd offer Paul Konerko to the Reds straight up for Griffey. Seriously. The Reds get salary relief while the Sox get HOF left-handed cleanup power. Dye moves to first and Griffey could play right. The Sox would lose nothing defensively yet gain offensively.

I'd also throw in prospects to entice the Reds to pick up part of Junior's contract. The more prospects the Sox send, the more the Reds might pick up. The beauty is that they would not have to part with McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney, Gio or Valido. They could dangle "lesser" prospects like Borchard, Munoz, Diaz, etc., hoping the Reds would see some potential these guys might reach in the inferior NL.

Junior also makes Everett expendable in a deal for pitching because Dye would become the fourth outfielder (playing right while Griffey DHs on occasion), and therefore Gload could get playing time as the backup 1B.

TomBradley72
07-20-2005, 09:24 AM
No way would I make this move. We're selling out soul if we swap Rowand for Griffey...chemistry is huge on this team...and the baseball Gods would guarantee that Griffey gets injured...

Any trade bait should be used to get insurance for: Crede's back, Hermanson's back, El Duque's shoulder, Marte's shoulder or Contreras's entire being.

Tekijawa
07-20-2005, 09:30 AM
and wasn't owed tons of money over a very long period of time.

His contract was large when he signed it but I believe that it's only around 10 million a year with large portions of that deferred... I'm not saying do it but I'm pretty sure that is his contract status.

GAsoxfan
07-20-2005, 09:58 AM
I would love to get Griffey as primarily a DH. He's still good in the field, but since he's a constant injury risk, I'd keep him as DH and 4th OF. Maybe package Everett with some prospects for him.


I think Griffey is owed about $37M over the next three years.

He gone
07-20-2005, 10:10 AM
No way would I make this move.
I second that. :angry:


I don't have a problem with trading Everett or Rowand ( Anderson is going to replace him next year anyway :D: ) But not for Junior:angry: We've got more pressing concerns.

Iwritecode
07-20-2005, 10:53 AM
Jr. has a full no trade clause and a short list of teams he'd be willing to be traded to.

As far as I know, the Sox are not on the list...

DickAllen72
07-20-2005, 11:01 AM
If I were Kenny Williams, I'd offer Paul Konerko to the Reds straight up for Griffey. Seriously. The Reds get salary relief while the Sox get HOF left-handed cleanup power. Dye moves to first and Griffey could play right. The Sox would lose nothing defensively yet gain offensively.


I'd do that in a minute.

Tragg
07-20-2005, 11:31 AM
I would hate to see Aaron go, but I can't deny that Griffey would be a huge offensive upgrade. If you're thinking long term then you got to keep Rowand, if you want to go for broke in '05 then get Griffey.Is Rowand really long term? Don't we have some minor leaguers ready and rearing to go? Can Rowand really play right? (does he have the arm). But until they materialize, if ever, he's an important part of this team.

And then there's this - when I'd go to Seattle games when Griffey was there, they always complained that Griffey wasn't "clutch." Could be urban mythology, I don't know.

dcb33
07-20-2005, 11:32 AM
His contract was large when he signed it but I believe that it's only around 10 million a year with large portions of that deferred... I'm not saying do it but I'm pretty sure that is his contract status.



Griffey makes 12.5M/yr. thru 08, but 6.5M of that is deferred. For 09 there's a 16.5M club option w/ a 4M buyout. The deferred part of his contract will last thru 2024.

:reinsy
"Deferred money through 2024?!? You've got to be ******** me. What kind of amateurs do they hire down there in Cincinnati?"

Tragg
07-20-2005, 11:33 AM
If I were Kenny Williams, I'd offer Paul Konerko to the Reds straight up for Griffey. Seriously. The Reds get salary relief while the Sox get HOF left-handed cleanup power. Dye moves to first and Griffey could play right. The Sox would lose nothing defensively yet gain offensively.
That is an interesting idea. HOF may be stretching it.
Are we sure Dye can play first. Can he scoop and dig Uribe's throws into the dirt? (I'm exaggerating, but when they show Sox highlights, Uribe's throwing the ball in the dirt).
I doubt the Reds would do this, as they essentially would be getting no player for the future, and they seem to think they can get something for him. Of course, they want a Brinks Wagon for Joe Randa, so they might have to come off of the clouds at some point.

White Sox Randy
07-20-2005, 11:40 AM
because this trade will NEVER happen.

I would love to have Griffey - so would most teams.

But, his contract is so enormous and long and huge that he will be staying in Cincy for a while - if not the rest of his career.

The only team that might be dumb enough to take that contract is the Yankees - MAYBE.

Remember, Griffey looks enticing now. Wait until he goes on the DL again - shortly.

GAsoxfan
07-20-2005, 12:14 PM
HOF may be stretching it.


Are you serious?! Griffey is a definite Hall of Famer and should be first ballot IMO. He was great in Seattle for a decade.

miker
07-20-2005, 12:15 PM
Sure I'd like Griffey...from about 10 years ago.

He's an upgrade only in the "name recognition" department. Unless Cincy is giving him away for free, it does nothing for us.

Jjav829
07-20-2005, 12:22 PM
FWIW, Griffey has said recently that he would waive his no-trade clause to go to a contender. He wants to win a World Series badly. I don't think we'd have a problem getting Griffey to accept a trade here. Also, the Yankees supposedly don't have interest in Griffey.

The problem would be his contract. He's making $6 million a year through 2008, with an option for 2009, but he has a lot of money deferred between 2009 and 2024.

It's a tough call. Rowand is the perfect example of KW's grinder mentality. It would be hard to get rid of Rowand. Would he accept a role as the 4th outfielder? I'm sure he'd probably be extremely disappointed, but I'd guess that he would accept it if necessary. Ideally, we could get the Reds to eat about half of Griffey's salary. Griffey would take over in center, Everett would be traded away and Rowand would take over Everett's role. Rowand would still play center two or three times a week to either spell Griffey, or move Griffey to DH to spell Frank. Add in the times Rowand plays left or right to give Pods and Dye rest, and hopefully Rowand would still find enough playing time.

This is probably all for naught as I don't envision Ken Griffey Jr. ever playing for the White Sox, but it's an interesting conversation.

Jjav829
07-20-2005, 12:25 PM
Sure I'd like Griffey...from about 10 years ago.

He's an upgrade only in the "name recognition" department. Unless Cincy is giving him away for free, it does nothing for us.

Ok, granted he isn't the player he was 10 years ago. But, he's hitting .287/.365/.540/.905 this year with 20 HRs and 62 RBI. He's a significant upgrade offensively over Rowand in center.

Flight #24
07-20-2005, 12:32 PM
FWIW, Griffey has said recently that he would waive his no-trade clause to go to a contender. He wants to win a World Series badly. I don't think we'd have a problem getting Griffey to accept a trade here. Also, the Yankees supposedly don't have interest in Griffey.

The problem would be his contract. He's making $6 million a year through 2008, with an option for 2009, but he has a lot of money deferred between 2009 and 2024.

It's a tough call. Rowand is the perfect example of KW's grinder mentality. It would be hard to get rid of Rowand. Would he accept a role as the 4th outfielder? I'm sure he'd probably be extremely disappointed, but I'd guess that he would accept it if necessary. Ideally, we could get the Reds to eat about half of Griffey's salary. Griffey would take over in center, Everett would be traded away and Rowand would take over Everett's role. Rowand would still play center two or three times a week to either spell Griffey, or move Griffey to DH to spell Frank. Add in the times Rowand plays left or right to give Pods and Dye rest, and hopefully Rowand would still find enough playing time.

This is probably all for naught as I don't envision Ken Griffey Jr. ever playing for the White Sox, but it's an interesting conversation.

PerMLB4U, $6.5M of his $12.5M salary is deferred annually. The deferrals start paying out in 2009 (contract ends in 2008). So that helps somewhat.

IMO the best scenario is a 4-way rotation between CF, RF, 1B of Griff, Dye, Konerko, ARow. Same situation that you currently have with Everett, and it would enable you to include him in a deal, possibly to get an SP or RP. And as noted, I think Dye could be a solid defensive 1B given some time & practice, so you could effectively replace Paulie's bat with Griffey from '06 on.

Still, unlikely.

Tragg
07-20-2005, 12:48 PM
Are you serious?! Griffey is a definite Hall of Famer and should be first ballot IMO. He was great in Seattle for a decade.

I guess he is (but first ballot is stretching it). He hasn't had a good season in so long, I forget how many homers he hit out of that launching pad in Seattle all those years.

Randar68
07-20-2005, 12:50 PM
I would hate to see Aaron go, but I can't deny that Griffey would be a huge offensive upgrade. If you're thinking long term then you got to keep Rowand, if you want to go for broke in '05 then get Griffey.

Here's the thing. They have a built-in back-up waiting in AAA in Brian Anderson should anything happen to Griffey.

I would trade Rowand for Griffey without flinching. The team needs LH'd bats and it's an all-around upgrade save the health concerns, as Rowand has been very durable.

Remember, guys. Konerko's contract is up after this year and so is Carl's. That basically pays for Griffey straight-up and next year you could have Dye/Gload at 1B and Anderson in RF.

Again, if it doesn't take much to get Griffey and Cinci assumes the deferred portion from the previous years of his contract up until this point, I would do it without hesitation.

Tragg
07-20-2005, 01:10 PM
Here's the thing. They have a built-in back-up waiting in AAA in Brian Anderson should anything happen to Griffey.

I would trade Rowand for Griffey without flinching. The team needs LH'd bats and it's an all-around upgrade save the health concerns, as Rowand has been very durable.

Remember, guys. Konerko's contract is up after this year and so is Carl's. That basically pays for Griffey straight-up and next year you could have Dye/Gload at 1B and Anderson in RF.

Again, if it doesn't take much to get Griffey and Cinci assumes the deferred portion from the previous years of his contract up until this point, I would do it without hesitation.
Sounds good to me.

Chicago83
07-20-2005, 01:41 PM
Jr. has a full no trade clause and a short list of teams he'd be willing to be traded to.

As far as I know, the Sox are not on the list...

Word is he wants to be traded to a CONTENDER.

Chicago83
07-20-2005, 01:43 PM
If I were Kenny Williams, I'd offer Paul Konerko to the Reds straight up for Griffey. Seriously. The Reds get salary relief while the Sox get HOF left-handed cleanup power. Dye moves to first and Griffey could play right. The Sox would lose nothing defensively yet gain offensively.


I don't know what makes you think the Reds would have any interest in Paul. They already have a 1B in Casey and two other guys who should be 1B.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2005, 01:46 PM
I don't know what makes you think the Reds would have any interest in Paul. They already have a 1B in Casey and two other guys who should be 1B.

Of course they aren't interested in Konerko. They are, however, interested in salary relief. Konerko certainly would be signed by another team willing to overpay this offseason. The Reds would be out from under most of Griffey's contract; the quality/quantity of the prospects the Sox would send would determine how much of the contract they would be willing to pick up.

Chicago83
07-20-2005, 01:52 PM
Of course they aren't interested in Konerko. They are, however, interested in salary relief. Konerko certainly would be signed by another team willing to overpay this offseason. The Reds would be out from under most of Griffey's contract; the quality/quantity of the prospects the Sox would send would determine how much of the contract they would be willing to pick up.

So you think they are going to trade for a player just to let him go this offseason? They might as well just go for propects or find a rent-a-player that they actually need. They won't want Konerko, they will want a guy who can actually play for them.

Randar68
07-20-2005, 02:00 PM
So you think they are going to trade for a player just to let him go this offseason? They might as well just go for propects or find a rent-a-player that they actually need. They won't want Konerko, they will want a guy they can actually play for them.

There's a decent chance Konerko will refuse arbitration, and that would result in 2 compensation draft picks in the 1st 2 rounds...

(although I admit Cinci would be extremely unlikely to have any interest in Konerko in this deal)

Tragg
07-20-2005, 02:27 PM
Randar, what do you think of this rumor?

"(AP) Sources close to GM Doug Melvin of the Milwaukee Brewers have indicated that the Chicago Whitesox are making a strong push to aquire Brewers 1B Lyle Overbay. Overbay, 28, who the Brewers acquired from Arizona in the Richie Sexson trade is hitting .276 this season with 12 home runs and 43 runs batted in. He has a career .287 average and .833 OPS and would fill the White Sox need for a left handed bat....
It is unclear who the Brewers would want in return for Overbay, but indications are that Melvin has asked for a package including 3B prospect John Fields."

MIgrenade
07-20-2005, 07:12 PM
If I were Kenny Williams, I'd offer Paul Konerko to the Reds straight up for Griffey. Seriously. The Reds get salary relief while the Sox get HOF left-handed cleanup power. Dye moves to first and Griffey could play right. The Sox would lose nothing defensively yet gain offensively.

So your idea requires the Sox to go into the playoffs with a starting first baseman who has never done it until this season? And even then it's limited action.
If the rumors about Overbay are true at all then yes I make that move. But you can't make that move with Dye at first.

RowandKicksAss07
07-20-2005, 11:52 PM
The lineup would shake out as follow:

Podsednik LF
Iguchi 2b
Thomas DH
Griffey CF
Konerko 1B
Dye Rf- Dye would have plenty of time to adjust to 1b...almost a half of year
Pierzynski- C
Crede 3b
Uribe SS

This is if the Sox trade Rowand for Griffey...In my opinion, I expected Rowand to duplicate his 2004 numbers, but to this point he has only 5 home runs! That is absurd...granted he is a grinder and a clutch performer, i really wouldnt have a problem with trading Rowand considering he is more than likely to be replaced by Anderson and hoping Cincy picks up a good bit of Griffey's contract. I could definitely see the Sox doing this move...and for all of you that think Griffey is injured too much, he has played with no pain this year at all. He had a couple of fluke injuries, but there is no doubt the Sox could use his presence in the lineup over Rowand's.

RowandKicksAss07
07-20-2005, 11:54 PM
As soon as i sent my last post, i immediately remembered the Reds want to trade Griffey because they already have too many outfielders...so why would they want another one who is capable of starting, when all they want is most likely pitching? just a thought...

Optipessimism
07-21-2005, 12:01 AM
As soon as i sent my last post, i immediately remembered the Reds want to trade Griffey because they already have too many outfielders...so why would they want another one who is capable of starting, when all they want is most likely pitching? just a thought...

If I were KW I'd be willing to part with any combination of minor leaguers as long as they ate all the deferred garbage on that contract, plus another 6 mil or so through 2008. That said, I doubt they'd do that.

Frater Perdurabo
07-21-2005, 09:33 AM
As soon as i sent my last post, i immediately remembered the Reds want to trade Griffey because they already have too many outfielders...so why would they want another one who is capable of starting, when all they want is most likely pitching? just a thought...

I believe that more than anything else the Reds want to unload Griffey's contract. They are a small market team who may be sold soon. I believe they would be willing to pick up part of the contract just to have it off their balance sheets if the Sox shipped them some pitching prospects. I'd offer Munoz, Diaz and Honel, who really don't seem to have a place on the Sox with Buehrle, Garland and Garcia locked up at the top and McCarthy, Gio and Broadway waiting in the wings.

Gil1957
07-23-2005, 03:01 AM
I just noticed this on CBS Sportsline about possible trades and under Ken Griffey Jr, the possible suitors are the Yankees and the White Sox.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/transactions/trades

Do you think the Sox might really go after him and would it be worth it?

Gil1957
07-23-2005, 03:04 AM
I just noticed the other entry about ESPN reporting this. Do both Sportsline and ESPN share the sources?

scottjanssens
07-23-2005, 03:11 AM
I doubt it. Who would you sit? You can't sit Pods, Rowand is hitting well and plays solid defense. Dye has been hitting well lately. We've got depth with Everett and Timo.

ATXBMX
07-23-2005, 03:13 AM
There's already a thread about this somewhere in "What's the Score?."

Chicago83
07-23-2005, 03:17 AM
I have been hearing about this for a few days, but I am not sure of the source. If there were to be a trade my guess would be Rowand for Griffey. Aaron would be a much cheaper alternative for the Reds and his contract extends past this year, perfect for a rebuilding team.

Taking on Griffey could be an extremely risky long term investment, however adding his bat to this lineup this year could really be something special.

StockdaleForVeep
07-23-2005, 03:21 AM
What was the prank 1-2 years ago when the score and others "reported" that griffey was traded to the sox? Wasnt it for borchard crede and konerko?

Blueprint1
07-23-2005, 03:28 AM
ummm.

no

jabrch
07-23-2005, 08:40 AM
What was the prank 1-2 years ago when the score and others "reported" that griffey was traded to the sox? Wasnt it for borchard crede and konerko?

That was North's April Fools joke I believe right? (IDIOT)

downstairs
07-23-2005, 09:02 AM
No matter what's true and what's rumor, I luuuuuv seeing the White Sox name as a potental for pretty much every player here.

It seems that in the past the only reason we got into big trades was because the Yankees needed a third party to facilitate something.

I have no problem with us trading some talent to upgrade our offense AND pitching. Go nuts. This is our year.

alohafri
07-23-2005, 09:58 AM
I'd consider Griff only if it was for sure that Frank was done for the year. Even then, Crazy Carl is doing a great job and will love to see what he does with more at-bats over the next 15 days.

Vernam
07-23-2005, 10:23 AM
If there were to be a trade my guess would be Rowand for Griffey. Aaron would be a much cheaper alternative for the Reds and his contract extends past this year, perfect for a rebuilding team.

Taking on Griffey could be an extremely risky long term investment, however adding his bat to this lineup this year could really be something special.
That's the scenario (Aaron for Griffey) that the talk radio guys were kicking around yesterday. And I agree about the risk. Can't see Kenny doing this trade -- it would be a real step away from the team concept and spending money on pitching first.

Ignoring that Griffey's spent most of the past few years on the DL (which is stupid to ignore!), their stats this year are nearly identical except for homers and stolen bases. Griffey has 21 HR to Rowand's 7, and Rowand has 12 steals to Griffey's zero. Think about a CF with zero steals, and what that implies about his ability to remain a CF for long.

VC

Tragg
07-23-2005, 10:31 AM
It's risky this time of the year, but I'd do a Rowand-Griffey between seasons. One of the young guys in the minors willl be able to hit ML hitting sufficiently to replace Rowand. We'll have money rolling off with PK. We'll just have to get Cincy to eat that deferred money.

chisox83
07-23-2005, 10:33 AM
Rowand for Griffey wouldn't make much sense. The Reds need another OF like they need a hole in the head. Rowand would just add to their frustration in finding playing time for Dunn, Kearns, Pena, etc. Plus, I think KW knows how important Rowand is to the team's chemistry.

dcb33
07-23-2005, 10:41 AM
That's the scenario (Aaron for Griffey) that the talk radio guys were kicking around yesterday. And I agree about the risk. Can't see Kenny doing this trade -- it would be a real step away from the team concept and spending money on pitching first.

Ignoring that Griffey's spent most of the past few years on the DL (which is stupid to ignore!), their stats this year are nearly identical except for homers and stolen bases. Griffey has 21 HR to Rowand's 7, and Rowand has 12 steals to Griffey's zero. Think about a CF with zero steals, and what that implies about his ability to remain a CF for long.

VC

I don't think it would cost Rowand. The Reds have too many outfielders now as it is, and if they got Rowand they'd still have 4 guys who can play everyday in the OF for 3 spots. Cincinnati's looking to dump salary, so it wouldn't cost much (if anything) in terms of quality talent if the Sox are willing to pony up the cash to pay Griffey's contract.

my5thbench
07-23-2005, 10:49 AM
NO WAY!!!

it's barely an upgrade if Griff stays healthy...Aaron's our guy

if the Sox make any major moves it wil be & should be for pitching

jake27
07-23-2005, 12:35 PM
i dont want griffey in the outfield, i would want him at dh, and able to fill in in the OF when guys get the day off. id trade carl for him, but i dont think the reds would want carl. think about him and big frank platooning at dh :o:

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 01:05 PM
I don't want to sound like Bafiarocks here, but I sure don't want Aaron traded and a trading him for Griffey would be ridiculous.

fquaye149
07-23-2005, 01:14 PM
I don't want to sound like Bafiarocks here, but I sure don't want Aaron traded and a trading him for Griffey would be ridiculous.

lol. I'm with you. I think. Aaron's a great team guy(i assume, based on the hardnosed example he sets), the epitome of grinder.

Also, he's so cute! I miss DJ! Willie!

Chicago83
07-23-2005, 02:35 PM
That's the scenario (Aaron for Griffey) that the talk radio guys were kicking around yesterday. And I agree about the risk. Can't see Kenny doing this trade -- it would be a real step away from the team concept and spending money on pitching first.

Ignoring that Griffey's spent most of the past few years on the DL (which is stupid to ignore!), their stats this year are nearly identical except for homers and stolen bases. Griffey has 21 HR to Rowand's 7, and Rowand has 12 steals to Griffey's zero. Think about a CF with zero steals, and what that implies about his ability to remain a CF for long.

VC

This is a good point. Girffey won't be a CF much longer, more than likely he'll become a DH. If Griffey's contract ended this year I would do it in a second, because you got guys in the minors who can replace him, but the fact that he's making over 10 million until '09 (I think) makes this trade a very bad idea.

bafiarocks03
07-23-2005, 03:32 PM
Yea we can't trade Aaron!

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Yea we can't trade Aaron!

For once, I agree with you. :wink:

There are two position players that I think the White Sox should center around in the upcoming years, Podsednik and Rowand...and it is not because they are eye candy!

DaveIsHere
07-23-2005, 03:49 PM
For once, I agree with you. :wink:

There are two position players that I think the White Sox should center around in the upcoming years, Podsednik and Rowand...and it is not because they are eye candy!

I have loved Rowand since he first came up and would be sad to see him go, especially since I got hhis jersey this year, and also had it Autographed last weekend in Cleveland

Jjav829
07-23-2005, 04:16 PM
That's the scenario (Aaron for Griffey) that the talk radio guys were kicking around yesterday. And I agree about the risk. Can't see Kenny doing this trade -- it would be a real step away from the team concept and spending money on pitching first.

Ignoring that Griffey's spent most of the past few years on the DL (which is stupid to ignore!), their stats this year are nearly identical except for homers and stolen bases. Griffey has 21 HR to Rowand's 7, and Rowand has 12 steals to Griffey's zero. Think about a CF with zero steals, and what that implies about his ability to remain a CF for long.

VC

Rowand: .290/.345/.413/.758 7 HR 39 RBI 17 BB 12 SB

Griffey: .291/.372/.547/.919 21 HR 65 RBI 44 BB 0 SB

Yeah, nearly identical. :?:

And surely you are joking about a centerfielders steals relating to their ability to play the position. Griffey isn't running because he doesn't want to take that risk. And really, why bother? Are 5 steals over 162 games going to convince you that he can play centerfield? Let's look at some of the great centerfielders in the game and their stolen base totals for this year.

Andruw Jones: 2 SB
Vernon Wells: 2 SB
Jim Edmonds: 2 SB
Mark Kotsay: 4 SB
Carlos Beltran: 4 SB

Still think that stolen base totals are a good indication of a centerfielders ability to play the position?

Jjav829
07-23-2005, 04:23 PM
I don't want to sound like Bafiarocks here, but I sure don't want Aaron traded and a trading him for Griffey would be ridiculous.

I like Aaron as much as anyone else here. I love the way he plays the game. I love the energy he has. I love how he'll do anything to help the team win. But there's a time where I have to separate how much I like a player from what's best for the team. Right now, Rowand isn't playing so great that he can't be replaced. Besides, I'm not sure a trade for Griffey would include Rowand. As others have mentioned, the Reds don't really need outfielders. If they can trade Griffey, they're more likely to keep Dunn. Willy Mo Pena is Griffey's eventual successor in center and Kearns will likely turn it around and start hitting at some point. I said this in another thread, but I think it's possible to trade for Griffey, making him the everyday centerfielder, and still keep Rowand and find at-bats for him.

Still, even if Rowand has to go, as much as I'd hate to see him leave, it would be worth it to get Griffey. Although I guess getting my all-time favorite non-White Sox player would be a nice consolation for seeing Aaron go. :smile:

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 04:52 PM
I like Aaron as much as anyone else here. I love the way he plays the game. I love the energy he has. I love how he'll do anything to help the team win. But there's a time where I have to separate how much I like a player from what's best for the team. Right now, Rowand isn't playing so great that he can't be replaced. Besides, I'm not sure a trade for Griffey would include Rowand. As others have mentioned, the Reds don't really need outfielders. If they can trade Griffey, they're more likely to keep Dunn. Willy Mo Pena is Griffey's eventual successor in center and Kearns will likely turn it around and start hitting at some point. I said this in another thread, but I think it's possible to trade for Griffey, making him the everyday centerfielder, and still keep Rowand and find at-bats for him.

Still, even if Rowand has to go, as much as I'd hate to see him leave, it would be worth it to get Griffey. Although I guess getting my all-time favorite non-White Sox player would be a nice consolation for seeing Aaron go. :smile:

I absolutely love Griffey, too. I would love to see him here, but I am not so sure that he can play CF much longer. However, Pods could move to CF and Griffey to LF if need be.

Since it seems to be that Cincy doesn't want another OF, who would go in a trade and what would be done about all of our excess OFer's? Another trade for am arm?

DarkCloudDropo
07-23-2005, 05:32 PM
In short, this would be a horrible move.

RowandKicksAss07
07-23-2005, 05:41 PM
I hate when you want to trade a guy like Aaron and then he starts to heat up for like a week stretch and then you go back to wondering when this guy is going to pick it up...Aaron trade price might be going up because lately he has been hitting the ball well, but that still doesnt ignore the fact that he only has 7 HRS! Yes he is a grinder and the seems to be like the perfect candidate for grinder ball, but when you can get Griffey who seems to be getting his form back, you have to make that move...and who knows if it would even take Rowand for Griffey?

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 05:59 PM
I hate when you want to trade a guy like Aaron and then he starts to heat up for like a week stretch and then you go back to wondering when this guy is going to pick it up...Aaron trade price might be going up because lately he has been hitting the ball well, but that still doesnt ignore the fact that he only has 7 HRS! Yes he is a grinder and the seems to be like the perfect candidate for grinder ball, but when you can get Griffey who seems to be getting his form back, you have to make that move...and who knows if it would even take Rowand for Griffey?

The 8 years difference in age and the 8 million difference in salary is why I am hesitant. I could care less about HR's from Rowand. I want him to hit for average (which he is doing), be a threat to steal, and play well defensively.

I haven't seen Griffey play lately, is he still a good to decent CFer?

Daver
07-23-2005, 06:15 PM
I haven't seen Griffey play lately, is he still a good to decent CFer?

Close to the best in the game.

Tragg
07-23-2005, 06:20 PM
Assuming we don't trade Anderson for a short-term rent of players, and if he can hit ML pitching reasonably well (which we should find out in September), Rowand is prime offseason trade bait. He'd bring a good return and we'd have someone to replace him - the perfect trade situation.

RowandKicksAss07
07-23-2005, 06:22 PM
Assuming we don't trade Anderson for a short-term rent of players, and if he can hit ML pitching reasonably well (which we should find out in September), Rowand is prime offseason trade bait. He'd bring a good return and we'd have someone to replace him - the perfect trade situation.

That's a great point...but if you want to win right onw with the team the White Sox have would you rather have Griffey or Rowand in your centerfield? Right now, I would have to take Griffey. That's why it would be a dream world if we dont need to trade Rowand for Griffey.

Tragg
07-23-2005, 06:25 PM
That's a great point...but if you want to win right onw with the team the White Sox have would you rather have Griffey or Rowand in your centerfield? Right now, I would have to take Griffey. That's why it would be a dream world if we dont need to trade Rowand for Griffey.

Griffey for Rowand straight up? Sign me up if they pick up most of that deferred money.

Palehose13
07-23-2005, 06:39 PM
Close to the best in the game.

Still? Well, ok then. I wouldn't be THAT disappointed anymore. I was under the impression that he wasn't so good anymore in the field, but still can hit.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 01:25 AM
As much as Rowand has been piled on on this board (not nearly as much as Crede or Konerko, mind you) he is still having a good season. I have heard this "Rowand needs to start hitting, he is having a horrible year" bs way too much here. He is playing great defense, and his average has been around .290 most of the year. He will get better, he will hit more homers, and his average will climb to over .300, but he is still playing great ball. Rowand is the epitome of the White Sox, and I want him on the team for a long time.

Now that I am done defending Rowand, I will get to the issue at hand. I am very worried about the Big Hurt. We need Frank DHing. If Frank isn't healthy, KW has to go get another huge bat. Carl has been great for us most of the year, but he is the type of player great teams have coming off the bench late in the game in October. If Frank is seriously hurt, we go into the playoffs with Everett at DH, and a bench of Gload, Timo, Willie, Widger, and Ozuna. Beside Carl not giving you close to what Frank does, the bench isn't nearly as good without Carl on it. If Frank is out, Kenny NEEDS to get Griffey. If fact, if Frank will be out for any extended period of time, the move should be made. Rowand wouldn't be insulted if asked to sit or switch positions for Junior. Griffey could play CF a couple times a week, RF once, and DH twice. In the offseason, Dye can be moved to first, or Griffey can move there to help preserve his health. Griffey would add more power, more walks, most importantly another big bat to the order. He would really help out against righties, against whom the Sox have struggled all year. Rowand wouldn't need to be traded, and the Reds are under the realization that they are going to have to pick up a large portion of the contract to move Griffey. Griffey has a big contract, but not a huge one. His contract was way under market value at the time of signing. If the Sox give two or three good prospects, the Reds would likely pick up $7mil a year. It's a risk worth taking.

Vernam
07-24-2005, 01:59 AM
Still think that stolen base totals are a good indication of a centerfielders ability to play the position?
Not quite what I said. Griffey's lack of steals is directly correlated to his health:

Year SB CS
1989 16 7
1990 16 11
1991 18 6
1992 10 5
1993 17 9
1994 11 3
1995 4 2
1996 16 1
1997 15 4
1998 20 5
1999 24 7
2000 6 4
2001 2 0
2002 1 2
2003 1 0
2004 1 0
2005 0 1

Unless anyone finds that 100-percent steal rate in 2003-04 encouraging. :cool:

Griffey isn't running because he doesn't want to take that risk.
Ho-kay . . . He doesn't want to risk running bases, but we should assume he'll be a CF for the duration of his contract? If the Sox were inclined to make a mistake like that, Ordonez wouldn't be in Detroit, and Jermaine Dye would be in Arizona. Fortunately, they're not.

VC

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 02:01 AM
I made a post before citing all the reasons why KW should not go after Griffey, basically saying that this type of move could end up becoming a kick in the knee of the organization which would cause it to stumble for several years later.

That said, I don't care anymore. Make the move Kenny. At worst, if Rowand had to go and if Griffey isn't the greatest CF anymore, bring up Anderson as a defensive replacement. I'm tired of seeing all the missed opportunities that Pods and Iguchi create. We have, IMO, the best 1-2 combination at the top of the order that I have ever seen as a Sox fan (granted I'm 22). We need a bat behind them to reap the benefits, and both Everett and Konerko IMO are better off hitting lower in the order.

I don't care about tomorrow anymore. I don't care if taking on Griffey's contract screws us through 2008, as long as we get it done this year. Let's win this thing now. Make the move Kenny.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 02:09 AM
Not quite what I said. Griffey's lack of steals is directly correlated to his health:

Year SB CS
1989 16 7
1990 16 11
1991 18 6
1992 10 5
1993 17 9
1994 11 3
1995 4 2
1996 16 1
1997 15 4
1998 20 5
1999 24 7
2000 6 4
2001 2 0
2002 1 2
2003 1 0
2004 1 0
2005 0 1

Unless anyone finds that 100-percent steal rate in 2003-04 encouraging. :cool:


Ho-kay . . . He doesn't want to risk running bases, but we should assume he'll be a CF for the duration of his contract? Fortunately, if the Sox were inclined to make a mistake like that, Ordonez wouldn't be in Detroit, and Jermaine Dye would be in Arizona.
[/color]
VC

First of all, Griffey is 10x the player Magglio is. If both are healthy, Griffey will do more to help your team. Secondly, Griffey isn't making nearly as much as Magglio wanted. Griffey is making $12.5mil a year, Magglio would have cost us $15. The Reds know they will have to pick up at least half of Griffey's contract to move him. I think it's a much better risk taking on 3 years of one of the greatest players of all time for $6-7 per than 5 years of Magglio at $15 per.

Vernam
07-24-2005, 02:15 AM
I think it's a much better risk taking on 3 years of one of the greatest players of all time for $6-7 per than 5 years of Magglio at $15 per.
I respectfully disagree. I'm sure Jr. deserves every penny he's making, even if the Reds are willing to pay half just to be rid of him. It's just that I care more about what our players might do in the future than about what they did in bygone days.

VC

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 02:29 AM
I respectfully disagree. I'm sure Jr. deserves every penny he's making, even if the Reds are willing to pay half just to be rid of him. It's just that I care more about what our players might do in the future than about what they did in bygone days.

VC
OK, and Griffey has not had any career threatening injuries. He has torn hamstrings, biceps, and pretty much anything else you can think of, but all of his injuries were freak injuries. Magglio has a career threatening injury. His "hernia" this year is not fooling anybody. His injury will follow him the rest of his career, and likely end it prematurely. With Magglio, you are hoping his injury doesn't resurface. With Griffey, you are hoping that he doesn't somehow have another unrelated freak injury. There is a much better chance Griffey stays healthy than Magglio.

As for "bygone days", you couldn't be more wrong. Griffey is having a very good year - .287, 21, 65 on a horrible god-forsaken team. I believe he would improve on those numbers a)coming back to the AL; b)being surrounded by a much better team; and c)playing in games that matter for the first time in 5 years. Whenever he has been healthy, he has put up huge numbers. When he is healthy, he is an MVP. When Magglio is healthy, he is very good. Griffey still has a bigger upside. Oh, and he plays a gold glove CF. Oh, and he is the left handed slugger this franchise has needed for the last 8 years or so.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 02:34 AM
As much as Rowand has been piled on on this board (not nearly as much as Crede or Konerko, mind you) he is still having a good season. I have heard this "Rowand needs to start hitting, he is having a horrible year" bs way too much here.

Rowand's a good ballplayer; if I defended Crede, I sure won't diss Rowand.
Him being a good ballplayer makes him excellent off-season trade bait, especially if Anderson can hit.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 02:42 AM
Rowand's a good ballplayer; if I defended Crede, I sure won't diss Rowand.
Him being a good ballplayer makes him excellent off-season trade bait, especially if Anderson can hit.
I disagree. If we get Griffey, either Junior will roam CF, Rowand RF, and Dye will switch to 1B, or Griffey would move to 1B. Rowand is a hell of a ballplayer, and there are very few scenarios in which I would trade him.

Jjav829
07-24-2005, 03:57 AM
Not quite what I said. Griffey's lack of steals is directly correlated to his health:

Year SB CS
1989 16 7
1990 16 11
1991 18 6
1992 10 5
1993 17 9
1994 11 3
1995 4 2
1996 16 1
1997 15 4
1998 20 5
1999 24 7
2000 6 4
2001 2 0
2002 1 2
2003 1 0
2004 1 0
2005 0 1

Unless anyone finds that 100-percent steal rate in 2003-04 encouraging. :cool:


Ho-kay . . . He doesn't want to risk running bases, but we should assume he'll be a CF for the duration of his contract? If the Sox were inclined to make a mistake like that, Ordonez wouldn't be in Detroit, and Jermaine Dye would be in Arizona. Fortunately, they're not.
[/color]
VC

You're missing the point. It's an unnecessary risk. He isn't Pods. His game isn't stealing bases. It's hitting home runs, driving in runs and getting on base. To do all this he has to be healthy. With a player who has suffered injuries like he has, there's little point to risk another injury running. No one is claiming Griffey is the same player he used to be. He's no longer the great all-around player he used to be. But if you think he can't handle centerfield because he isn't stealing many bases, you are way off. He isn't stealing because it's truly not worth the risk to take the chance after the freak injuries he has suffered. So let me ask you this. Griffey decides to take the risk of blowing out a hammy, turning an ankle, destroying his knee, etc. and steals 7-10 bases this year. Suddenly he can handle centerfield again?

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 04:17 AM
You're missing the point. It's an unnecessary risk. He isn't Pods. His game isn't stealing bases. It's hitting home runs, driving in runs and getting on base. To do all this he has to be healthy. With a player who has suffered injuries like he has, there's little point to risk another injury running. No one is claiming Griffey is the same player he used to be. He's no longer the great all-around player he used to be. But if you think he can't handle centerfield because he isn't stealing many bases, you are way off. He isn't stealing because it's truly not worth the risk to take the chance after the freak injuries he has suffered. So let me ask you this. Griffey decides to take the risk of blowing out a hammy, turning an ankle, destroying his knee, etc. and steals 7-10 bases this year. Suddenly he can handle centerfield again?

I kind of wanted to reply to that but I didn't feel like taking up that much of the page. Thanks.

The more I think about it, the more a Griffey deal makes sense to me. We need a LH bat and we need help in the middle of the lineup. That's a given. Beyond that, the only thing that it seems Sox fans and the blasphemous media can agree on is that the Sox are having a 'magical' season thusfar. What says 'magical' more than a resurgent Ken Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas going back-to-back in the playoffs? Just imagine the headlines! People would hvae to give us some credit! The only downside would be that it would effectively kill the whole 'under the radar' perception.

Palehose13
07-24-2005, 04:29 AM
I disagree. If we get Griffey, either Junior will roam CF, Rowand RF, and Dye will switch to 1B, or Griffey would move to 1B. Rowand is a hell of a ballplayer, and there are very few scenarios in which I would trade him.

you know, I was thinking about this more tonight and I am not a fan of PK, so if we could get Griffey and have an OF of Pods, Griffey, Rowand and Dye at 1b and then ship PK to someone for a stud in the BP that would be fine with me.

However, at the moment I am a bit tipsy and in the morning I may read this and say "What the hell was i thinking?" but then again maybe not...

Goodnight all...

Chicago83
07-24-2005, 04:39 AM
I disagree. If we get Griffey, either Junior will roam CF, Rowand RF, and Dye will switch to 1B, or Griffey would move to 1B. Rowand is a hell of a ballplayer, and there are very few scenarios in which I would trade him.

This is a very bad idea, you can't just switch a guy to another position. I know it looks easy on TV but a bad 1B can cause a lot of problems. No way anybody gets moved to 1B in the middle of the season. Bottom line if this trade goes through it will involve one of our OF, most likely Rowand.

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 04:41 AM
This is a very bad idea, you can't just switch a guy to another position. I know it looks easy on TV but a bad 1B can cause a lot of problems. No way anybody gets moved to 1B in the middle of the season. Bottom line if this trade goes through it will involve one of our OF, most likely Rowand.

I could see Rowand because he's signed and relatively cheap. For whatever reason it looks like they want to move Kearns and/or Dunn, so I could see them wanting a good defensive OF with some power.

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 04:59 AM
you know, I was thinking about this more tonight and I am not a fan of PK, so if we could get Griffey and have an OF of Pods, Griffey, Rowand and Dye at 1b and then ship PK to someone for a stud in the BP that would be fine with me.

If Frank's foot keeps bothering him, you could always go with Pods as the DH and keep Paulie at 1B, Dye in RF, Griffey in LF, Rowand in CF. When Frank is healthy, then you can move him back to DH and shuffle Aaron out of the lineup when he is not giving someone the night off.

DaleJRFan
07-24-2005, 05:16 AM
If Frank's foot keeps bothering him, you could always go with Pods as the DH and keep Paulie at 1B, Dye in RF, Griffey in LF, Rowand in CF. When Frank is healthy, then you can move him back to DH and shuffle Aaron out of the lineup when he is not giving someone the night off.

:roflmao: That's hysterical.

So you want to move one of the best defensive centerfielders in baseball to the bench to make room for a guy who can't run the bases and strikes out 1 in 3 at-bats?

Wow.

Optipessimism
07-24-2005, 05:29 AM
:roflmao: That's hysterical.

So you want to move one of the best defensive centerfielders in baseball to the bench to make room for a guy who can't run the bases and strikes out 1 in 3 at-bats?

Wow.

What would you do? Bench a guy hitting .287/21/65 with a .906 OPS for a guy hitting .287/7/40 with an OPS of .752? That's not hysterical. That's not even funny.

And, Griffey has struck out less that Rowand has this year in more AB's. Aaron has 70 K's in 339 AB's while Griffey has 66 K's in 345 AB's. Aaron isn't one of the best CF's in baseball either. He's good, but I wouldn't call him one of the best.

This whole thing is a pipedream because Griffey isn't coming here. But, it would be nice to strengthen the middle of the order. Aaron can not do that.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2005, 09:12 AM
This is a very bad idea, you can't just switch a guy to another position. I know it looks easy on TV but a bad 1B can cause a lot of problems. No way anybody gets moved to 1B in the middle of the season. Bottom line if this trade goes through it will involve one of our OF, most likely Rowand.
I was responding to a quote that was talking about the offseason. I was saying that if we got Griffey, Konerko would walk (which he will anyways) and either Dye or Griffey would be moved to 1B in spring training of next year. Either would be fine there if given the spring to learn the position.

jake27
07-24-2005, 10:09 AM
:roflmao: That's hysterical.

So you want to move one of the best defensive centerfielders in baseball to the bench to make room for a guy who can't run the bases and strikes out 1 in 3 at-bats?

Wow.from my knowledge, pods has been playing LF, not CF for the majority of this year. and in LF or CF, pods is a good defensive outfielder, not great. he can cover a lot of ground but his arm is average. i wouldnt say one of the best defensive outfielders at all. and hes not going to the bench, hes in the starting lineup playing dh. just because griffey doesnt have any stolen bases doesnt mean he cant run the bases. i have mlb tv, i like to watch reds games, he can run the bases and is still a top tier CF.

Jjav829
07-24-2005, 10:16 AM
:roflmao: That's hysterical.

So you want to move one of the best defensive centerfielders in baseball to the bench to make room for a guy who can't run the bases and strikes out 1 in 3 at-bats?

Wow.

Did you just call Aaron Rowand "one of the best defensive centerfielders in baseball?" :thud:

Well, let's see....

Andruw Jones
Jim Edmonds
Vernon Wells
Mark Kotsay
Ken Griffey Jr.
Jeremy Reed
Carlos Beltran
Torii Hunter

That's 8 off the top of my head. So if being arguably the 9th best defensive centerfielder is "one of the best," then I guess you're right. Oh, and Griffey doesn't strike out once in every 3 at-bats. Where you came up with that, I don't know.

balke
07-24-2005, 10:26 AM
What a tough call that would be. I could never see Griffey wanting to come here, championship chance or not. Griffey was the best all-around player in baseball history IMO. He has the perfect swing, and makes better plays in the field than Hunter. He also stole bases and hit for average, had a great arm.

I haven't had the opportunity to watch him play the field this season. I would say Rowand has a little more range nowadays without knowing for sure... but Rowand does have great range.

Griffey is still a better hitter, and would probably fare well in the cell. I'd welcome the move I think. It would be quite expensive, but I don't see Griffey injurying himself this season.

mdep524
07-24-2005, 10:44 AM
you know, I was thinking about this more tonight and I am not a fan of PK, so if we could get Griffey and have an OF of Pods, Griffey, Rowand and Dye at 1b and then ship PK to someone for a stud in the BP that would be fine with me.

However, at the moment I am a bit tipsy and in the morning I may read this and say "What the hell was i thinking?" but then again maybe not...

Goodnight all... You know, I have been pretty dismissive of any Griffey trade, because of all the logistical reasons why it won't happen (salary, crowded OF, age, injury, etc.), but when you put it like this it actually does look tempting. Houston needs another bat, maybe we could involve them in a three-way deal in which we get Burnett/Wagner/Schmidt and Fla/Phi/SF gets prospects from Houston and maybe one or two parts from the Sox.

So PH13, keeping drinkin'! :gulp:

Chicago83
07-24-2005, 01:10 PM
I was responding to a quote that was talking about the offseason. I was saying that if we got Griffey, Konerko would walk (which he will anyways) and either Dye or Griffey would be moved to 1B in spring training of next year. Either would be fine there if given the spring to learn the position.

I see, in that case it is not such a bad idea. They have been talking about moving Griffey to first to avoid injuries.

DickAllen72
07-24-2005, 01:17 PM
If KW feels it's "now or never" and JR would allow him to take on his contract, Griffey can probably be had for prospects.

Then he could DH as well as play some CF and RF. He'd make the White Sox lineup much much better without huring the defense. He'd also make the bench that much deeper.

Foulke You
07-24-2005, 11:26 PM
you know, I was thinking about this more tonight and I am not a fan of PK, so if we could get Griffey and have an OF of Pods, Griffey, Rowand and Dye at 1b and then ship PK to someone for a stud in the BP that would be fine with me.

However, at the moment I am a bit tipsy and in the morning I may read this and say "What the hell was i thinking?" but then again maybe not...

Goodnight all...
I hope you rethink this idea when you sober up PH13.:cool: Would you honestly feel comfortable with Dye's 1B defense going into the postseason based on 1 game played there this year? Opposing managers like Torre and Gardenhire would test Dye with tons of bunts to 1B to see if he can field his position. I wouldn't be too confident that Dye can play there everyday. He is a heck of a RF, but I fear he would be a below average 1B.

I'm not opposed to bringing a difference maker like Griffey into the lineup but not at Konerko's expense. Konerko is leading the team in RBI and I feel losing him would also mess up the chemistry on this team.

After seeing Boston's thunderous middle lineup of Ortiz/Ramirez/Varitek/Nixon, I wouldn't mind seeing Griffey inserted into the middle of our order to help our cause against the powerhouse East teams. It would definitely be the riskiest move KW could make given Griffey's injury track record of late, but it could go down as the move everyone talks about as one that help put us over the top.

Tragg
07-24-2005, 11:28 PM
Moving Konerko is too risky right now. Anyway, we need his power. Hopefully, next year we'll have a better solution for power than him, but right now we need him.

Griffey IS an impact player. He's worth digging somewhat of a hole in the future for. Average players are not worth digging such a hole.

Foulke You
07-24-2005, 11:34 PM
Moving Konerko is too risky right now. Anyway, we need his power. Hopefully, next year we'll have a better solution for power than him, but right now we need him.

Griffey IS an impact player. He's worth digging somewhat of a hole in the future for. Average players are not worth digging such a hole.
Agreed. While I'm not completely opposed to the Marlins trade as you are, if you are gonna go for the gusto with a risky trade, make sure it is for a difference maker.

Palehose13
07-25-2005, 12:13 AM
I'd love for the Brewers to send us Overbay, but I don't see that happening.

I'm in the anti-PK camp. He's lucky if he's average defensively. While I'm not so sure about having Dye at first everyday, I sure wouldn't shed any tears if Paul gets shipped somewhere else.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2005, 12:18 AM
I'd love for the Brewers to send us Overbay, but I don't see that happening.

I'm in the anti-PK camp. He's lucky if he's average defensively. While I'm not so sure about having Dye at first everyday, I sure wouldn't shed any tears if Paul gets shipped somewhere else.

I don't want to beat a personal dead horse :tongue:, so I wont mention one name in particular. What I will say is that I think a platoon of Dye and Gload could do a respectable job at first base, while Dye/Rowand and Griffey could rotate among CF and RF, with Griffey getting some starts at DH as well and Everett infrequently spelling Pods in left. Timo clearly would be the odd man out.

mdep524
07-25-2005, 01:28 PM
Random thought: Would a Griffey trade still be doable after the July 31st non-waiver deadline?

Griffey's contract is enormous, so it's unlikely any team would claim him off waivers, making him available via trade until August 31. By that point, the Sox might have a better grasp on their needs offensively due to a.) other deadline deals, b.) another month of Konerko's/Everett's/Dye's/Rowand's production, and most importantly c.) Big Frank's health.

Suppose it's the end of August, Paulie is slumping again, Everett is struggling and Frank's injury is more serious than it is now, forcing him to remain on the DL. Would Ken Griffey be a possibility at this point?

TheOldRoman
07-25-2005, 01:54 PM
Random thought: Would a Griffey trade still be doable after the July 31st non-waiver deadline?

Griffey's contract is enormous, so it's unlikely any team would claim him off waivers, making him available via trade until August 31. By that point, the Sox might have a better grasp on their needs offensively due to a.) other deadline deals, b.) another month of Konerko's/Everett's/Dye's/Rowand's production, and most importantly c.) Big Frank's health.

Suppose it's the end of August, Paulie is slumping again, Everett is struggling and Frank's injury is more serious than it is now, forcing him to remain on the DL. Would Ken Griffey be a possibility at this point?
I talked about that in another thread. If Kenny is interested in Griffey, I doubt he would even start talking with Cincy until after the deadline. He has too much to do right now between the Burnett, Wagner, Guardado talks. His contract is so big that nobody would claim him. It would be similar to the Cards trading for Walker last year.

MIgrenade
07-25-2005, 02:14 PM
The problem with this trade is that if Griffey goes down, which he very well might, there will be no center fielder. Don't tell me Pods can do it, he can't throw anybody out at 3rd and won't be able to keep anyone from going from first to third. That is my fear and I am not seeing a real alternative.
This is like saying Dye can play first. Maybe he can, probably he can. But, I don't want to watch the Sox go to the playoffs with a big question in center or first.
Having said that, I like Rowand but a power hitting lefty would be great on this team and I welcome it if he can stay healthy.

mdep524
07-25-2005, 02:41 PM
The problem with this trade is that if Griffey goes down, which he very well might, there will be no center fielder. Don't tell me Pods can do it, he can't throw anybody out at 3rd and won't be able to keep anyone from going from first to third. That is my fear and I am not seeing a real alternative.
This is like saying Dye can play first. Maybe he can, probably he can. But, I don't want to watch the Sox go to the playoffs with a big question in center or first.
Having said that, I like Rowand but a power hitting lefty would be great on this team and I welcome it if he can stay healthy. I agree Podsednik would represent a downgrade from Griffey or Rowand in center, but he is certainly serviceable as an injury replacement. And of course there's a chance that a Griffey trade wouldn't involve Rowand anyway (Cinci has a lot of OFs to begin with).

balke
07-25-2005, 03:02 PM
The problem I see with the pipedream of Griffey is, why aren't they openly shopping him? If you were the Reds, would you rather dump him now and get the best offer from a number of teams who think they could use his bat, or would you rather wait to put him on waivers, so only a few teams who are still in contention with money can pick him up and offer lesser players in return? Or better yet, they could just wait til the offseason to deal him, so a team like the Yankees can try to make a "splasH" in the free agent market for him.


And I just made another point, why aren't the yankees after Griffey? That'll solve centerfield pretty quick. Although, it further adds to their overpaying overaged players syndrome.

TheOldRoman
07-25-2005, 03:06 PM
The problem I see with the pipedream of Griffey is, why aren't they openly shopping him? If you were the Reds, would you rather dump him now and get the best offer from a number of teams who think they could use his bat, or would you rather wait to put him on waivers, so only a few teams who are still in contention with money can pick him up and offer lesser players in return? Or better yet, they could just wait til the offseason to deal him, so a team like the Yankees can try to make a "splasH" in the free agent market for him.


And I just made another point, why aren't the yankees after Griffey? That'll solve centerfield pretty quick. Although, it further adds to their overpaying overaged players syndrome.
Every report I heard about the Sox wanting Griffey mentioned the Yankees as the only other team seriously interested in him.

Tragg
07-25-2005, 03:07 PM
The problem I see with the pipedream of Griffey is, why aren't they openly shopping him?
I would guess that because his contract is so, so severe, that they don't want to trade him and eat that contract; and no one will relieve them of that contract.

Foulke You
07-29-2005, 02:41 PM
Griffey rumors are cooling apparently as Reds not expecting anything to happen. This has to be the least active trade market in recent MLB memory:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050727/SPT04/507270393/1071