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gr8mexico
07-16-2005, 09:54 AM
The rumor mill continues to churn out White Sox trade possibilities, although the newest scuttlebutt is not a deal of the impact variety.

According to a source, reliever Shingo Takatsu could be traded to a West Coast team as early as today, with the Sox getting a high-level prospect in return. Most of the previous rumors surrounding the Sox had to do with them acquiring a starter such as the San Francisco Giants' Jason Schmidt or the Florida Marlins' A.J. Burnett. The Sox are particularly interested in Burnett, although getting him could cost them reliever Damaso Marte and an impact outfielder the likes of a Carl Everett or Aaron Rowand. http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep16.html

MeanFish
07-16-2005, 09:58 AM
The rumor mill continues to churn out White Sox trade possibilities, although the newest scuttlebutt is not a deal of the impact variety.

According to a source, reliever Shingo Takatsu could be traded to a West Coast team as early as today, with the Sox getting a high-level prospect in return. Most of the previous rumors surrounding the Sox had to do with them acquiring a starter such as the San Francisco Giants' Jason Schmidt or the Florida Marlins' A.J. Burnett. The Sox are particularly interested in Burnett, although getting him could cost them reliever Damaso Marte and an impact outfielder the likes of a Carl Everett or Aaron Rowand. http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep16.html

Dallas McPherson?

Cowhead418
07-16-2005, 10:27 AM
The rumor mill continues to churn out White Sox trade possibilities, although the newest scuttlebutt is not a deal of the impact variety.

According to a source, reliever Shingo Takatsu could be traded to a West Coast team as early as today, with the Sox getting a high-level prospect in return. Most of the previous rumors surrounding the Sox had to do with them acquiring a starter such as the San Francisco Giants' Jason Schmidt or the Florida Marlins' A.J. Burnett. The Sox are particularly interested in Burnett, although getting him could cost them reliever Damaso Marte and an impact outfielder the likes of a Carl Everett or Aaron Rowand. http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep16.html
No way should we give up Rowand/Everett and Marte for Burnett. That is a terrible trade. I seriously think Marte is almost worth as much as Burnett. But to throw in Rowand or Everett? NO WAY.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 11:30 AM
I highly doubt it.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 11:32 AM
Why not trade Vizcaino instead. This rumor is complete BS.

balke
07-16-2005, 11:37 AM
I'm wondering if the Vizquel rumors are true. imagine trading Omar for Uribe and some prospects, Vizquel becomes your #2, and Uribe goes to SF to replace the aging Durham at 2B. You know the Giants would like to part with some of that Salary.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 11:46 AM
Plus why would they trade him when Tad needs a friend(especially with him strugling). Reinsdorf said that he is glad that Shingo is there not only for his talent but also because he has made things easier on Tad.

ilsox7
07-16-2005, 11:47 AM
I'm wondering if the Vizquel rumors are true. imagine trading Omar for Uribe and some prospects, Vizquel becomes your #2, and Uribe goes to SF to replace the aging Durham at 2B. You know the Giants would like to part with some of that Salary.

I have to wonder about Omar. We got a guy in Dye who chose the Sox even when presented with a better deal (in terms of money) and kept his word, even as he was taking a physical. Now we look at a guy like Vizquel who was, as all reports indicated, almost a done-deal to sign with us...that is until somone else came along with an extra year and more money. When we talk about chemistry in the clubhouse, I fear that he is one of the few guys who might not fit in. I dunno, just something that bothers me.

ShoelessJoeS
07-16-2005, 11:58 AM
im sick of all these trade rumors, the deadline could not be coming any sooner....wagner or bust.

ShoelessJoeS
07-16-2005, 12:00 PM
I'm wondering if the Vizquel rumors are true. imagine trading Omar for Uribe and some prospects, Vizquel becomes your #2, and Uribe goes to SF to replace the aging Durham at 2B. You know the Giants would like to part with some of that Salary.
where would gooch go in the lineup, i for one think that he has done a fabulous job out of the two spot?

Jjav829
07-16-2005, 12:01 PM
According to a source, reliever Shingo Takatsu could be traded to a West Coast team as early as today, with the Sox getting a high-level prospect in return.

Shingo to the Giants for Matt Cain? Heh. :D:

This would have to be leading to another move, right? I mean there isn't much reason to trade Shingo for a prospect unless it is to use that prospect in another trade. Perhaps this could lead to a Billy Wagner trade, using the prospect we receive in return and with Wagner filling the open bullpen spot. I wouldn't think that Kenny would trust Jenks yet, and we're not gonna go with 5 relievers for very long.

Or maybe with the Burnett trade likely to go down this weekend, this could be leading to a Burnett trade where we don't have to give up Bmac? I don't know. If this does happen as Padilla's source says it will, I would think that another move would follow.

Soxmissy
07-16-2005, 12:02 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep16.html
I would hate to see that happen! I feel Takatsu has been a big part of The
Team's success.

balke
07-16-2005, 12:06 PM
where would gooch go in the lineup, i for one think that he has done a fabulous job out of the two spot?

Omar is batting a little over .300, only has like 29 K's and has snagged 14 SB's. He'd be a great #2, and a better SB threat, but Gooch has been fine in the #2, nothing against him. He also only has 3 errors on the season, and about 30 more assists than Uribe.

Gooch could go to the 9 spot and take over Uribe's role of speed at the end of the lineup.

I'm happy with the infield, I do realize Omar would be an upgrade at SS though. As far as chemistry goes, I have no idea.

Jjav829
07-16-2005, 12:07 PM
I would hate to see that happen! I feel Takatsu has been a big part of The
Team's success.

Big part of the team's success? Is he giving massages in the bullpen to our good relievers so that they are loose when they come into the game or something? The guy has been pitching in mop-up duty for 2 months. The only downside of getting rid of Shingo would be that the TV stations would have to stop running that clever commercial with Shingo and Iguchi.

ShoelessJoeS
07-16-2005, 12:10 PM
Omar is batting a little over .300, only has like 29 K's and has snagged 14 SB's. He'd be a great #2, and a better SB threat, but Gooch has been fine in the #2, nothing against him. He also only has 3 errors on the season, and about 30 more assists than Uribe.

Gooch could go to the 9 spot and take over Uribe's role of speed at the end of the lineup.

I'm happy with the infield, I do realize Omar would be an upgrade at SS though. As far as chemistry goes, I have no idea.
i do see your point with the speed aspect at the bottom of the lineup, but i dont like the idea. i think gooch has enough power to bat third and bump frank down to fourth and so on...the more people on base in front of frank, the better, IMO

Wimpy
07-16-2005, 12:15 PM
On Rotoworld.com, it says the west coast team most likely is the Dodgers.

balke
07-16-2005, 12:20 PM
Good lord i don't want the Sox to be the team who gets false hope from Jeff Kent taking over at 2B.

Jjav829
07-16-2005, 12:20 PM
On Rotoworld.com, it says the west coast team most likely is the Dodgers.


That's just rotoworld speculating.

Shingo Takatsu could be traded to a West Coast team as soon as today, a source told the Chicago Sun-Times.
The Dodgers would seem to make the most sense here. The White Sox would get a prospect in return for their former closer.

I don't see why the Dodgers would want him. They should be selling off, not buying. Then again, no team out west really makes sense. I actually think the D'backs could have interest.

MRKARNO
07-16-2005, 12:21 PM
Shingo to the Giants for Matt Cain? Heh. :D:

This would have to be leading to another move, right? I mean there isn't much reason to trade Shingo for a prospect unless it is to use that prospect in another trade. Perhaps this could lead to a Billy Wagner trade, using the prospect we receive in return and with Wagner filling the open bullpen spot. I wouldn't think that Kenny would trust Jenks yet, and we're not gonna go with 5 relievers for very long.

Or maybe with the Burnett trade likely to go down this weekend, this could be leading to a Burnett trade where we don't have to give up Bmac? I don't know. If this does happen as Padilla's source says it will, I would think that another move would follow.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. But even though that would lessen the amount that we would have to give up, I still am bothered by the prospect of having to give up Marte. Even in a down year, he is extremely valuable. I know the front office thinks that it could get by with Politte, Cotts and Hermanson, and I don't doubt that, but having four dominant relievers at the back end of the bullpen would be a lot better. Does anyone really want to see Luis Vizcaino in a big situation because we traded away Marte?

If the deal is Marte + Everett + Prospect from Takatsu deal for Burnett, then the hit to our bullpen would be pretty big and I don't know that I would entirely approve of it. But if the Marlins threw in a marginal reliever, it would be a good deal for us.

Edit: On second thought, Marte, Everett and essentially Takatsu might not be such a bad deal for us. But it would leave our bullpen somewhat thin. Bajenaru and Jenks might both need to be called up at that point. Anderson's presence might be needed for the OF. But if Contreras is included in the deal, then I can't really approve of it. You get Burnett to replace El Duque, not Contreras.

Mickster
07-16-2005, 12:32 PM
If the deal is Marte + Everett + Prospect from Takatsu deal for Burnett, then the hit to our bullpen would be pretty big and I don't know that I would entirely approve of it. But if the Marlins threw in a marginal reliever, it would be a good deal for us.

Edit: On second thought, Marte, Everett and essentially Takatsu might not be such a bad deal for us. But it would leave our bullpen somewhat thin. Bajenaru and Jenks might both need to be called up at that point. Anderson's presence might be needed for the OF. But if Contreras is included in the deal, then I can't really approve of it. You get Burnett to replace El Duque, not Contreras.

Why would you automatically assume that KW would not make another deal for a releiver? Wagner? Everyday Eddy?

MRKARNO
07-16-2005, 12:36 PM
Why would you automatically assume that KW would not make another deal for a releiver? Wagner? Everyday Eddy?

Automatically assume KW isn't going to make a deal? :rolling::rolling::rolling:

I was about to add something about KW dealing for another reliever. I guess I should have included it. I fully expect something like 3 trades in the next 2 weeks.

munchman33
07-16-2005, 01:03 PM
No way should we give up Rowand/Everett and Marte for Burnett. That is a terrible trade. I seriously think Marte is almost worth as much as Burnett. But to throw in Rowand or Everett? NO WAY.

You're overvaluing our players. No way is a reliever worth a starter, unless that reliever's name is Lidge, Wagner, or Rivera.

MeanFish
07-16-2005, 01:30 PM
You're overvaluing our players. No way is a reliever worth a starter, unless that reliever's name is Lidge, Wagner, or Rivera.

I'm not convinced. I think that a top-tier lefty specialist (of which there really aren't that many in MLB) is roughly worth an injury prone #4 starter. Reliable bullpen help is a pretty rare commodity in today's game, and Marte is as reliable as they come. Even if he sucks at holding inherited runners.

Cowhead418
07-16-2005, 02:20 PM
You're overvaluing our players. No way is a reliever worth a starter, unless that reliever's name is Lidge, Wagner, or Rivera.
But I'm not sold on Burnett at all. Can a great reliever be worth a mediocre starter however? Because that's the situation right here.

skobabe8
07-16-2005, 02:25 PM
Even mentioning Rowand deicredits this whole thing.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 02:33 PM
Does Padilla pull rumors out of his ass. This was the same guy that said that Frank Would be traded a couple years back and than said that The Sox wouldn't raise payroll. This **** isn't true. Also Levine was on the pregame show and pretty much discredited it. I believe him over some hack like Padilla.

chitownhawkfan
07-16-2005, 02:40 PM
I have to wonder about Omar. We got a guy in Dye who chose the Sox even when presented with a better deal (in terms of money) and kept his word, even as he was taking a physical. Now we look at a guy like Vizquel who was, as all reports indicated, almost a done-deal to sign with us...that is until somone else came along with an extra year and more money. When we talk about chemistry in the clubhouse, I fear that he is one of the few guys who might not fit in. I dunno, just something that bothers me.

Is it fair to blame someone for accepting a fatter contract? Wouldnt you do the same for your family?

Chips
07-16-2005, 02:45 PM
There is no need to make any trades.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 02:46 PM
Here is how you can tell this is BS. What west coast team needs him:
Arizona- They are falling out of it fast.
Seattle- They are totally out of it.
San Francisco- Out of it.
San Diego- Bullpen is stacked
LA- Out of it. They are sellers not buyers.
LA Angels of Anaheim in Orange County right near Irvine- Bullpen is stacked
Oakland- Just bolstered their bullpen.

This rumor is BS.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 02:47 PM
Well folks, here's a very logical possibility:

-Kenny Williams talks to GM A about trading for a bullpen arm--which, believe it or not, would be a very smart move for the Sox to make.

-GM A says, "although I'd like to make that move happen (for whatever reason) there is really no one in your farm system that either: a) wow's our franchise or b ) you'd be willing to trade for said bullpen arm."

-Kenny them asks what player GM A has been covetting and wants to know if he aquires this player via a trade of his own, will this GM make the deal happen.

I really think that's what's happening. Otherwise, why in the hell would you trade Shingo right now? He's struggling after suceeding with a year of smoke-and-mirrors, you know you won't re-sign him after this season, but, he's still capable of getting MLB players out and has nice chemistry with Iguchi and the rest of the clubhouse.

ilsox7
07-16-2005, 02:56 PM
Is it fair to blame someone for accepting a fatter contract? Wouldnt you do the same for your family?

Uh, Omar Vizquel has made TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars in his career. If I were 38 years old I would be making my decision of where to play the game based on where I had the best chance to win. Now maybe he thought that place was SF, but he said when he signed that it was the extra year/money that led him there. You sound like Latrell Spreewell.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2005, 03:03 PM
Is it fair to blame someone for accepting a fatter contract? Wouldnt you do the same for your family?You're right. Omar's family would have really been hurting with that Sox contract. :rolleyes:

chitownhawkfan
07-16-2005, 03:21 PM
Uh, Omar Vizquel has made TENS OF MILLIONS of dollars in his career. If I were 38 years old I would be making my decision of where to play the game based on where I had the best chance to win. Now maybe he thought that place was SF, but he said when he signed that it was the extra year/money that led him there. You sound like Latrell Spreewell.

Its easy to turn down an extra couple million when we are posting on the WSI message board, I dont know about you but if I got offered a couple million extra I'd take it. It still sounds bad to say you are motivated by money instead of the opportunity to win, but i guess I can understand it.

ilsox7
07-16-2005, 03:26 PM
Its easy to turn down an extra couple million when we are posting on the WSI message board, I dont know about you but if I got offered a couple million extra I'd take it. It still sounds bad to say you are motivated by money instead of the opportunity to win, but i guess I can understand it.

He's made $41 MILLION in his career before this year. Some how I don't think missing out on an extra million or two is gonna hurt him and his family that much. Gimme $41 MILLION for a career and I'd play for free on the best team to get a ring that I don't have.

buehrle4cy05
07-16-2005, 03:45 PM
Even mentioning Rowand deicredits this whole thing.

No doubt. First, Florida has a CF in Juan Pierre. He's having some problems, but I don't see him getting replaced in the near future. Second, Rowand isn't going anywhere. KW knows that trading Rowand would be a move comprable, to, oh, I don't know, the Dodgers trading Paul Lo Duca last year.

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2005, 03:46 PM
He's made $41 MILLION in his career before this year. Some how I don't think missing out on an extra million or two is gonna hurt him and his family that much. Gimme $41 MILLION for a career and I'd play for free on the best team to get a ring that I don't have.

Back when Vizquel made his decision to sign with SF, the Sox roster was not anything like it is today. Carlos Lee was still with the team. Pods was not. Uribe had not been locked up. Harris was the incumbent 2B. :o: Maggs was certain to depart, believed to be replaced by Borchard or Timo. :(: Most people were unsure of how well Frank would come back from his injury, if at all. Burke and Davis were thought to be platooning at catcher. :o: El Duque had not been signed. Garland was coming off another mediocre year. Garcia had had a "tired arm" late in the 2004 season. Many so-called "experts" picked the Sox for third or fourth place. Needless to say, only the most deeppink prognosticators would have predicted the Sox would be 30 games over .500 on July 16.

:smokin:

Back in late 2004, Vizquel probably made his decision based on who offered him more money and who he honestly believed (at that time) had a better shot at the postseason.

ilsox7
07-16-2005, 03:50 PM
Back when Vizquel made his decision to sign with SF, the Sox roster was not anything like it is today. Carlos Lee was still with the team. Pods was not. Uribe had not been locked up. Harris was the incumbent 2B. :o: Maggs was certain to depart, believed to be replaced by Borchard or Timo. :(: Most people were unsure of how well Frank would come back from his injury, if at all. Burke and Davis were thought to be platooning at catcher. :o: El Duque had not been signed. Garland was coming off another mediocre year. Garcia had had a "tired arm" late in the 2004 season. Many so-called "experts" picked the Sox for third or fourth place. Needless to say, only the most deeppink prognosticators would have predicted the Sox would be 30 games over .500 on July 16.

:smokin:

Back in late 2004, Vizquel probably made his decision based on who offered him more money and who he honestly believed (at that time) had a better shot at the postseason.

I hear ya, but I distcintly remember him saying getting that extra year was a major, major reason he signed with SF. Now that was probably not the only reason, but I still question him some.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 06:57 PM
i love this quote from ozzie. "Right now, it's nothing," said Guillen of the Takatsu rumor. "The good thing about Chicago is we have a general manager at the radio stations, a general manager in the newspapers.

DaleJRFan
07-17-2005, 12:45 AM
Shingo has a no-trade clause. So can we stop talking about trading Shingo?

Norberto7
07-17-2005, 12:52 AM
Big part of the team's success? Is he giving massages in the bullpen to our good relievers so that they are loose when they come into the game or something?

This? This is incredibly funny! :kneeslap:

I give you this...:hug:...I just noticed that smilie!

Optipessimism
07-17-2005, 05:24 AM
To respond to a previous poster, I could see KW making a run at Vizquel considering Crede's recent back troubles, but I doubt it would be at the expense of Uribe.

I can see them dangling Harris/Ozuna + Shingo for Vizquel or even Shingo another team for a prospect and including him in that deal instead. For some reason I think Sabean might look at a Shingo + Harris type deal as being a good deal for them, which I only understand because of what they did to get Latoya. Maybe they think Shingo could be a piece of their pen next year (assuming he would be resigned)? Who knows, but I don't see KW making a move he doesn't really have to make. Adding Vizquel while keeping the left side of the infield intact does make sense however.

Tragg
07-17-2005, 10:01 AM
No doubt. First, Florida has a CF in Juan Pierre. He's having some problems, but I don't see him getting replaced in the near future. Second, Rowand isn't going anywhere. KW knows that trading Rowand would be a move comprable, to, oh, I don't know, the Dodgers trading Paul Lo Duca last year.

LOL - but you're right - except that the Marlins HAVE been trying to get rid of Pierre (and Lowell and Burnett) since the off-season.
The Marlins know what they have, and there's a reason that they've put 1/2 their team on the block the last 2 seasons. From what I can tell looking at the Dodgers' record, dealing with the Marlins hasn't fared too well (although Penny is a good pitcher and their idiocy wasn't limited to that marlins trade).

I would speculare that a Takatsu trade would have to do with 1 thing: freeing up $$$ for a bigger deal (which I hope doesn't happen) - if they can get a prospect, just throw him into that bigger deal as we generally insist on giving langiappe to the team we're dealing with in a large trade.

SoXPriDe33
07-17-2005, 10:01 AM
Omar is batting a little over .300, only has like 29 K's and has snagged 14 SB's. He'd be a great #2, and a better SB threat, but Gooch has been fine in the #2, nothing against him. He also only has 3 errors on the season, and about 30 more assists than Uribe.

Gooch could go to the 9 spot and take over Uribe's role of speed at the end of the lineup.


You have brought up good points with the stats that Vizquel has but with those stats and the SB threat wouldn't you want him in the 9 hole to give the Sox 2 leadoff hitters in a way. Think of this Omar gets on 1st, then Pods lays down a bunt he gets on then you would have 2 on and no one out for the Gooch and with 2 SB threats on the basepaths Gooch will see nothing but fastballs he'll lock in on one and send it to right driving in Vizquel and moving Pods the third with Big Frank coming up. Just seems like the perfect move for Kenny to make.

Madvora
07-17-2005, 10:14 AM
The Tribune reports that this rumor may involve Arizona, where a prospect may be coming our way and could be used to pick up Burnett.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050716soxbrite,1,7081665.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

The Suntimes references rumors from a Japanese newspaper that thinks it's the San Francisco Giants on the other end of the deal.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug17.html


No one knows anthing for sure yet.

Tragg
07-17-2005, 10:19 AM
How's Vizque's D and range?
I don't see us play often, but it seems that often our highlights include some stop by Uribe that would have gone into left field with a lesser fielder.

The Dude
07-17-2005, 11:02 AM
Here is how you can tell this is BS. I post too much and have a love affair with everything Shingo.
This rumor is BS.

I think that about sums it up.

balke
07-17-2005, 11:33 AM
How's Vizque's D and range?
I don't see us play often, but it seems that often our highlights include some stop by Uribe that would have gone into left field with a lesser fielder.

Vizquel's one of the best fielders SS has seen. He's older, and still has more assists and putouts then Uribe. He also has 3 errors, to Uribe's 11. Uribe's a great defender, but I believe Vizquel is probably better, close to the best you can get in baseball defensively.

Madvora
07-18-2005, 10:56 AM
Looks like the Diamond Backs want Jose Mesa first...

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/MLB_SC-RUMOR
The Diamondbacks are working hard to pry closer Jose Mesa loose from Pittsburgh, but if they are not successful, they will turn their attention to Shingo Takatsu of the White Sox, says the Chicago Tribune.

White Sox Josh
07-18-2005, 11:50 AM
I think Mesa will be traded.

maurice
07-18-2005, 03:49 PM
IMHO, it's not Uribe v. Vizquel. Ozzie would play both.

Vizquel --> SS
Uribe --> 3B
Crede & his injured back --> bench / DL

balke
07-18-2005, 03:54 PM
IMHO, it's not Uribe v. Vizquel. Ozzie would play both.

Vizquel --> SS
Uribe --> 3B
Crede & his injured back --> bench / DL


Crede is a better 3B than Uribe. Uribe is a stellar 2B that could take Durham's place, he'd be a good bargaining chip for Vizquel.

maurice
07-18-2005, 03:59 PM
Crede's missed a lot of time recently and looked like his back was killing him yesterday. He failed to run out a grounder and winced after a big swing.

Uribe for Vizquel would be a terrible trade, given the huge age difference. Uribe will be starting at SS for the Sox long after Vizquel is retired.

Madvora
07-20-2005, 12:08 PM
Latest on Shingo...

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/MLB_SC-RUMOR
The Rays could have interest in one or both veteran relievers who were just designated for assignment, Boston left-hander Alan Embree and White Sox right-hander Shingo Takatsu, says the St. Petersburg Times.

GAsoxfan
07-20-2005, 12:19 PM
I think Mesa will be traded.

Mesa has said for years that he won't play for any team but Pittsburgh. If they trade him, he just won't report. Has he changed his stance?

balke
07-20-2005, 01:36 PM
Crede's missed a lot of time recently and looked like his back was killing him yesterday. He failed to run out a grounder and winced after a big swing.

Uribe for Vizquel would be a terrible trade, given the huge age difference. Uribe will be starting at SS for the Sox long after Vizquel is retired.

Unless this is our shot, and we're ready to take a chance.

I'm pretty happy with Uribe, but Vizquel is a heck of a player that could help the Sox's chances. This pitching squad will only be together for 3 years I believe, I think you have to take age and salary out of the equation when making moves this season. Uribe could be the Giants 2b of the future, perhaps the best in the league, or he could be their SS. We could snag Vizquel for the remainder of his contract, and try to win a World Series while Garcia, Garland, and Buehrle are all still here.