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View Full Version : Crede's Plan For The Season!


GiveMeSox
07-15-2005, 07:15 PM
Joe Crede plans on playing the rest of the season with two herniated discs in his lower back.
A cortisone injection has relieved some of his pain, but expect him to miss time occasionally when his back flares up.

Interpretation on my part is that this is cause for concern in the everyday lineup and move might have to be made. Doesn't sound like we are gonna get much from crede the rest of the year, although we need his defense. Ozuna is not an everyday player. This makes me think more and more we should DL him by the 31st and trade for Randa. Playing with hernaited discs is not a good way to play and be productive, its that simple.

SpartanSoxFan
07-15-2005, 07:27 PM
Ozuna is an error waiting to happen over at 3rd base. I really feel we should either bring someone up or look towards getting a 3rd baseman in a trade.

RallyBowl
07-15-2005, 07:29 PM
do you need to have surgery to repair herniated disks?

Joosh
07-15-2005, 07:40 PM
do you need to have surgery to repair herniated disks?

Fusion Sugery, but that would likely kill his playing career.

Chisox003
07-15-2005, 08:07 PM
This is not good at all....

How important Joe has been to this team's success has been proven with pablo at the hot corner...

Nothin against Pablo, hes a good player, but we NEED Joe at 3rd base....

Edit: If this is in fact real serious and he can barely play, KW better start looking for a defensive third basemen...

Stretch
07-15-2005, 08:13 PM
Seeing that Greg Norton is the only 3rd baseman they could call up and Josh Fields has 20 errors at 3rd in AA they have to make a deal.

Daver
07-15-2005, 08:19 PM
Seeing that Greg Norton is the only 3rd baseman they could call up and Josh Fields has 20 errors at 3rd in AA they have to make a deal.

Not necessarily, Micah Schnurstein is playing high A ball, is a good defensive third baseman, and is a spray hitter that uses all fields. If your expectations were not high, he could platoon with Ozuna and Uribe at third.

ATXBMX
07-15-2005, 08:34 PM
It may not be the best long term solution, but how about calling up Jamie Burke to platoon at third and back up Konerko?

MRKARNO
07-15-2005, 08:44 PM
Count me in the "Trade for Randa" camp. He's hitting .300 with a .370 OBP, 20-something doubles and 12 HRs so far this year. That's pretty darn good and if we could avoid giving up far too much for him, even better. Crede being unhealthy just raises the need of us acquiring someone for 3B, at least as a 1/2 year plug in.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2005, 08:51 PM
Not necessarily, Micah Schnurstein is playing high A ball, is a good defensive third baseman, and is a spray hitter that uses all fields. If your expectations were not high, he could platoon with Ozuna and Uribe at third.

Daver, what would you think of a deal for Vizquel to be the starting shortstop and have Uribe move to third to fill in for Crede? Would that address the defensive concerns while also bringing some decent hitting to the bottom of the order?

NDSox12
07-15-2005, 08:53 PM
It may not be the best long term solution, but how about calling up Jamie Burke to platoon at third and back up Konerko?

I was just looking at Charlotte's recent box scores and did not see Burke's name. Does anyone know if he is hurt right now? Regardless, I don't think he's a particularly good solution at 3B anyway.

gobears1987
07-15-2005, 09:04 PM
I'd rather have Ozuna's near .300 average and good speed than Crede's glove. I've long said I'd rather have a good bat at 3rd and I'll continue to say so. I can't stand Joe Crede, and him riding the bench is the best thing that can happen. Ozuna just got another hit and his speed led to a poor throw and a WIdger run. Crede could never do that. Crede would just strike out and Widger would be at 1st now instead of just scoring.

kevingrt
07-15-2005, 09:05 PM
I'd say pray for a Oakland collaspe (unlikely to happen) and pray that we get to Eric Chavez. The guy has as much defensive ability as Crede and can hit the crap out of the ball, especially in the second half of the season. He may not be Mr. clutch like Crede, but he is a better all-around player.

I would die for Eric Chavez right now.

The Wall
07-15-2005, 09:08 PM
Daver, what would you think of a deal for Vizquel to be the starting shortstop and have Uribe move to third to fill in for Crede? Would that address the defensive concerns while also bringing some decent hitting to the bottom of the order?

KW did not want to give the kind of money Vizquel got from Giants...what would make you think he is interested in doing so now in addition to giving up someone from his farm?

Taliesinrk
07-15-2005, 09:12 PM
I'd rather have Ozuna's near .300 average and good speed than Crede's glove. I've long said I'd rather have a good bat at 3rd and I'll continue to say so. I can't stand Joe Crede, and him riding the bench is the best thing that can happen. Ozuna just got another hit and his speed led to a poor throw and a WIdger run. Crede could never do that. Crede would just strike out and Widger would be at 1st now instead of just scoring.

First of all, him riding the bench being the best thing that could happen is absurd. Secondly, you should be able to see from this year's team which is better... defense or offense. Thirdly, it's pretty ugly to say that considering this could put an end to a guy's career. At least show a bit of sympathy.

Daver
07-15-2005, 09:15 PM
Daver, what would you think of a deal for Vizquel to be the starting shortstop and have Uribe move to third to fill in for Crede? Would that address the defensive concerns while also bringing some decent hitting to the bottom of the order?

What are you giving up to make that happen?

Do you want Vizquel for next year also? He is signed through next season.

Uribe can play third, but he is not much better than Ozuna, why not platoon three players there and bring up Greg Norton, or gamble on bringing up Schnurstein?

Uribe and Ozuna can both play short, why bring in a SS to fill a hole at third?


But then again, what the hell do I know?

SOXintheBURGH
07-15-2005, 09:16 PM
What a grinder.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2005, 09:34 PM
What are you giving up to make that happen?

Do you want Vizquel for next year also? He is signed through next season.

Uribe can play third, but he is not much better than Ozuna, why not platoon three players there and bring up Greg Norton, or gamble on bringing up Schnurstein?

Uribe and Ozuna can both play short, why bring in a SS to fill a hole at third?


Far be it from me to decide what SF would want and what KW would be willing to send for Vizquel, if he was even interested.

I was thinking Vizquel might be of more immediate help defensively and offensively for this season, but (and I mean this sincerely) I suppose you're in a much better position to have an informed opinion about what might be best.

I had thought Norton wasn't very good defensively and I would guess that Schnurstein would really struggle at the plate considering he's only advanced to the A-ball level. But I trust your assessment that in a platoon situation he potentially could help the Sox in a pennant race. Since I've never read anything else about him, do you think he could be a long-term solution at third (for the Sox or another major league team) down the road?

Daver
07-15-2005, 09:59 PM
I had thought Norton wasn't very good defensively and I would guess that Schnurstein would really struggle at the plate considering he's only advanced to the A-ball level. But I trust your assessment that in a platoon situation he potentially could help the Sox in a pennant race. Since I've never read anything else about him, do you think he could be a long-term solution at third (for the Sox or another major league team) down the road?

Perhaps you are looking at it from the wrong view. The Sox have the best record in baseball with Crede playing third and hitting ninth. The team does not need a lot of offense out of the nine hole, they have proven this already, but they need decent defense at third for the pitching staff. Norton or Shnurstein can supply that defense, and platooned for the pitching matchups, can give you the offense the Sox have come to expect from the nine spot.

Schnurstein was drafted young, has improved steadily at the plate in his three years of minor league ball, with the exception of some time spent on the DL for a hand injury, he is a good, not great, defensive third baseman that excites no one because he does not have the power that people expect out of a third baseman. He is a spray hitter that hits for a good average, and can use all fields well, and can be used easily in situational hitting. He has no speed to speak of, but he is not a base clogger. He lacks some plate discipline, and doesn't walk a lot, but that can change with time. I'm not saying he is ready to play at the MLB level, but if needed I think he could help the team.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2005, 10:06 PM
Perhaps you are looking at it from the wrong view. The Sox have the best record in baseball with Crede playing third and hitting ninth. The team does not need a lot of offense out of the nine hole, they have proven this already, but they need decent defense at third for the pitching staff. Norton or Shnurstein can supply that defense, and platooned for the pitching matchups, can give you the offense the Sox have come to expect from the nine spot.

Schnurstein was drafted young, has improved steadily at the plate in his three years of minor league ball, with the exception of some time spent on the DL for a hand injury, he is a good, not great, defensive third baseman that excites no one because he does not have the power that people expect out of a third baseman. He is a spray hitter that hits for a good average, and can use all fields well, and can be used easily in situational hitting. He has no speed to speak of, but he is not a base clogger. He lacks some plate discipline, and doesn't walk a lot, but that can change with time. I'm not saying he is ready to play at the MLB level, but if needed I think he could help the team.

Thanks, Daver! That's exactly what I wanted to know. I feel so much more informed (no teal needed, I'm being sincere).
:smile:

Lip Man 1
07-15-2005, 10:53 PM
Randa and or Graffinino would fill the bill nicely and not cost an arm or a leg.

Lip

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-15-2005, 11:04 PM
Daver, what would you think of a deal for Vizquel to be the starting shortstop and have Uribe move to third to fill in for Crede? Would that address the defensive concerns while also bringing some decent hitting to the bottom of the order?

If you're going to deal with the Giants, why not get Alfonso instead of Visquel? He actually plays 3rd and he can hit. I'm pretty certain his name has been floated around as trade bait.

JimH
07-15-2005, 11:13 PM
Randa and or Graffinino would fill the bill nicely and not cost an arm or a leg.

Lip

KW said to forget about getting any help from division rivals, and off the top of my head, history backs him up. I don't recall a White Sox - Royals trade since 1987.

If we're talking Cincinnati players, I'd rather Ryan Freel. Versatile, can play 3B, pesky hitter, high OBP and can steal a base. Cincy wants pitching prospects so it may be a match, but who knows if Freel is available. He is on an injury rehab stint in Chattanooga currently.

Micah Schnurstein? No chance for this year, or next. 20 years old, 19 errors in 84 games and he's been getting time at 2B this year vs. solely at 3B.

lostletters
07-15-2005, 11:16 PM
Actually a herniated disc may not be THAT bad. Especially when you are talking about discs in the lower back. Most of the time it heals on its own and takes about one month to heal (6 months at most).

There is severe cases where bone fusion is necessary. But this is probably not a severe case if crede is walking around without problems.

Basically the severity of this is probably overblown by the boards. He may not be playing every day, but he still will be playing. Surgery is probably to much in this case, especially when cortozone seems to be working when there is inflamation.

Actually it is helpful for him to do his normal activities with the disc problems. The best treatment is often to stay active when you can. He probably cannot lift weights for the next few months, but he can probably still play baseball.

SOXintheBURGH
07-15-2005, 11:25 PM
Paging Dr. Beckett.......

Wow, I never thought I would ever miss Joe Crede, but here we are - A Team of Destiny.

THE_HOOTER
07-16-2005, 01:33 AM
What are you giving up to make that happen?

Do you want Vizquel for next year also? He is signed through next season.

Uribe can play third, but he is not much better than Ozuna, why not platoon three players there and bring up Greg Norton, or gamble on bringing up Schnurstein?

Uribe and Ozuna can both play short, why bring in a SS to fill a hole at third?


But then again, what the hell do I know?

Not much

GiveMeSox
07-16-2005, 01:51 AM
Fusion Sugery, but that would likely kill his playing career.

If you are talking about replacing the damaged discs with titanium ones than yes it could be career threatening. My dad had two discs in his neck replaced that were herniated about 5 or 6 years ago. They told him not expect much physically for a while and maybe ever again. He definatly couldn't drive for about 6 months, but low and behold if you recover well you can make it back to normal. My dad missed about 2 or 3 years of golf and softball but was able to come back to due to pretty solid recovery. For crede its potentially career threatening but better to take care of early on (via surgeery) when less damage is done to the surrounding area.

Joosh
07-16-2005, 02:37 AM
Maybe we can pretend Crede only has a Hernia and swap 3B with Cincy(Heck, the can have Joe Borchard too)!

Falstaff
07-16-2005, 03:04 AM
Solution: Crede needs to just get a qualified massage from a real chiropractor
and this will be much better. He is young and healthy. These disk things are mostly in the mind, and thats why a good deep tissue massage is just what he needs, from a chiropractor who can straighten out the curvature of the spine, plus Rolfing for closure. This stuff is not rocket science, and it works. In the mentime, O is swinging the fat wood, so keep him in the lineup. Also didnt Widget play some hot corner too? Dye? Everett?

chisoxfanatic
07-16-2005, 03:26 AM
Also didnt Widget play some hot corner too? Dye? Everett?

Widger did play there for one game (the Wednesday day game in Oakland), but Dye nor Everett have. Dye's played 1B for ONE game, and SS for ONE inning. Everett's been an OF sub.

You don't wanna put just anyone at the hot corner though, because it's the most important defensive position on the infield (IMHO) due to the vast majority of hitters behing righties and that they are going to pull the ball down the 3B line with much more regularity than the 1B line. The third baseman must be on top of things at all times.

DAllen15
07-16-2005, 08:52 AM
Fusion Sugery, but that would likely kill his playing career.

Fusion Surgery is usually only required for degeneritive disc's or severly damaged disc's/nerves. A Herniation is only a problem in a disc if it is impacting a nerve, if it is, then they can usually trim off the herniation. Depending on the method of surgery, he could be looking at a 6 week-6 month recovery.

Did anyone ever think that Crede's back problems could be at their worst right now because he doesnt' want to get traded? I know it's probably not true, but you never know....

niucons
07-16-2005, 10:06 AM
Is there any chance that Gload can play third?

ode to veeck
07-16-2005, 10:13 AM
Wow, first I heard of this. I hope for Crede's sake his back gets better in the long run. I'd hate to not have his glove there at 3rd for the playoffs.

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2005, 10:30 AM
Is there any chance that Gload can play third?

I believe Gload is a left-handed fielder. I suppose it's technically possible, but definitely not advisable.

TheOldRoman
07-16-2005, 10:46 AM
I believe Gload is a left-handed fielder. I suppose it's technically possible, but definitely not advisable.
In that case, is there any chance Gload is ambidextrous?:cool:

JackParkman
07-16-2005, 10:54 AM
I have two herniated discs in my lower back. It's not a severe case and I suspect that Crede's is not either. Most days I'm fine and can do just about anything with very little discomfort. Some days it flares up and it's tough to get around, but not crippling. Not once has my doctor suggested surgery. The best way to care for it, at least in a no severe instance, is with physical therapy, exercises to strengthen the muscles around the spine and the occasional pain killer.

He gone
07-16-2005, 11:16 AM
I was just looking at Charlotte's recent box scores and did not see Burke's name. Does anyone know if he is hurt right now?

He's on the DL. I saw him play 3rd base last month and he did OK. I repeat, he did OK. Not great, just OK. Leo Daigle is not an option either. I got to see him play a week ago and he doesn't impress.

If they have to bring someone in, I say Greg Norton.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7879/jamie9gl.jpg

alohafri
07-16-2005, 11:51 AM
do you need to have surgery to repair herniated disks?

I know that many people have negative opinions of chiropractors, but for skeletal/muscular things, they can work wonders. I have been virtually pain free after suffering a herniated disk about 3 years ago. Ask Steff, who saw me "walking" around Sox Fest 3 years ago as to what my condition was like.

Maybe Joe should check into one.

skobabe8
07-16-2005, 01:17 PM
Lets be rational. Oakland is considered a 'buyer' right now, not a 'seller.' The trade deadline is 2 weeks away and unless they lose every game from now until then, thats not gonna change. Chavez is not going anywhere.

Randa I wouldn't mind seeing. Its a positive situation because we can trade for a 3B and its not likely to disrupt chemistry because Crede is hurt, its not because he isnt getting the job done.

Seasons like this come around once in a lifetime. I do not want to take a chance on bringing someone-anyone-up from the lower ranks just to fill in. We have to go for this thing balls to the wall.

shoota
07-16-2005, 01:27 PM
Crede tries to grow facial hair and he gets injured. Shave it off.

Realist
07-16-2005, 02:15 PM
"Glenn Close":rolling:

beckett21
07-16-2005, 02:42 PM
Fusion Surgery is usually only required for degeneritive disc's or severly damaged disc's/nerves. A Herniation is only a problem in a disc if it is impacting a nerve, if it is, then they can usually trim off the herniation. Depending on the method of surgery, he could be looking at a 6 week-6 month recovery.

This is accurate. I believe Vlad Guerrero had a similar procedure last offseason, or two seasons ago.

Depends upon the degree of the herniation and the related symptoms, but lumbar fusion is rather extreme especially in someone of Joe's age. For that there would have to be significant joint degeneration, which I wouldn't imagine is the case here.

Rest, physical therapy and antiinflammatory medication/cortisone injections hopefully will do the trick. If it were to flare up though, a trip to the DL would not surprise me. Depends upon how bad he is feeling. I am far from an expert on the subject, so if there are any back specialists out there please chime in. Back surgery is not my forte'. :redneck

I'd guess he will make it through the season, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. The other question is how much it will affect his play, which only he would know. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a backup plan in case he does go down for any length of time. JMO.

jabrch
07-16-2005, 03:53 PM
Vizquel actually is signed for 2 more years. I think that was why he went to SF instead of coming here - was the third year. I don't want him...