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He gone
07-15-2005, 02:22 PM
Espn just said that AJ Burnett (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Yeah, for the Marlins :angry:

They even said Mike Lowell could be thrown in.

I say NO Way.

miker
07-15-2005, 02:23 PM
I echo that.

daveeym
07-15-2005, 02:23 PM
Espn just said that AJ Burnette (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Yeah, for the Marlins :angry:

They even said Mike Lowell could be thrown in.

I say NO Way. Maybe with lowell, but how's he doing this year?

1917
07-15-2005, 02:25 PM
Maybe with lowell, but how's he doing this year?

Crap, I'd much rather have Crede

mccoydp
07-15-2005, 02:25 PM
If the Sox at least go .500 in Jose's starts this year, heck no.

fquaye149
07-15-2005, 02:26 PM
Maybe with lowell, but how's he doing this year?

****ty

ShoelessJoeS
07-15-2005, 02:26 PM
Espn just said that AJ Burnette (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Yeah, for the Marlins :angry:

They even said Mike Lowell could be thrown in.

I say NO Way.
(sigh)....this would be so much easier if JC didnt look like Cy Young yesterday and if Marte was still hurt and didnt strike out the side last night...but they did, and now im having mixed feelings about this

Jjav829
07-15-2005, 02:26 PM
Espn just said that AJ Burnette (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Yeah, for the Marlins :angry:

They even said Mike Lowell could be thrown in.

I say NO Way.

Who said this? Who on ESPN?

Irishsox1
07-15-2005, 02:26 PM
If ESPN is reporting on the trade, then the deal is officially dead.

patbooyah
07-15-2005, 02:27 PM
lord i pray this doesn't happen. :(

it would ruin the unveiling of my new sig!

ShoelessJoeS
07-15-2005, 02:28 PM
If ESPN is reporting on the trade, then the deal is officially dead.
phewwwww, thank god

Baby Fisk
07-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Who said this? Who on ESPN?It doesn't matter. Kenny works under the radar. We won't hear about a real deal until it's officially announced. All other musing and speculation is as realistic as a fantasy board.

1917
07-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Leiter and Burnett for Marte and Contrearas and I'll do it...Leiter is a veteran Lefty who we can put in the bullpen

He gone
07-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Mike Lowell is batting .226 and has 4 HRs and 36 RBIs :o:

ShoelessJoeS
07-15-2005, 02:35 PM
Mike Lowell is batting .226 and has 4 HRs and 36 RBIs :o:
and some people are joe crede haters why?????

Kogs35
07-15-2005, 02:37 PM
Who said this? Who on ESPN?

it was jayson stark right before the flubs-bucs game started

fquaye149
07-15-2005, 02:37 PM
and some people are joe crede haters why?????

Because he's not a good hitter. I'm not Joe Crede hater, but just because another third baseman is having a bad year doesn't make Crede any better.

Crede's a great defensive 3B with a slightly below average stick. If Lowell were on the team the howls would be even loudeer because he can't play third.

daveeym
07-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Mike Lowell is batting .226 and has 4 HRs and 36 RBIs :o:Ugh, really? So what's his problem, injuries? No juice? or just washed up?

BigHurtEm35
07-15-2005, 03:05 PM
by the way AJ is 5-6 with a mid to upper 3 ERA. Secondly Crede has herniated discs. I had a herniated disc and it got to the point that I could barely walk and needed surgery. And i was definately not jolting my body around by swinging a bat or diving for a ball. Lowell might be good insurance if Crede goes down for an extended period of time. I love how everyone jumps on the contreas bandwagon when he pithces well. He always has this potential but never comes around for an extended period of time. if he got smoked last night, no one would be complaining. And its not even official. its ESPN reporting!!

infohawk
07-15-2005, 03:07 PM
Espn just said that AJ Burnett (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Was this just Stark offering his opinion of what it would take to get Burnett, or is he claiming that this is actually being considered?

munchman33
07-15-2005, 03:11 PM
If its Contreras (with his contract), Marte, and a prospect, I'd do it. Use Contreras' money as a start towards resigning him too.

Fungo
07-15-2005, 03:34 PM
Who said this? Who on ESPN?

Jason Stark

JUribe1989
07-15-2005, 03:37 PM
I like Contreras and Marte much more than Burnett. The only thing with this trade is that Crede will be playing hurt the rest of the year, and we have seen how great Mike Lowell can be. Perhaps a change of scenery would really help him.

BeviBall!
07-15-2005, 03:46 PM
First of all, Crede is hurt... these herniated discs will be a bother all year. I think the Sox should take a flyer on Big Game Al and, I hate to say it, go full court press after Randa, Hillenbrand or Tony G.

Either way, a backup utility man/3B looks to be the biggest concern right now.

samram
07-15-2005, 04:17 PM
I think the Sox should take a flyer on Big Game Al and, I hate to say it, go full court press after Randa, Hillenbrand or Tony G.

Add another to those who believe Joe Randa or Tony Graffanino will save the world.

shes
07-15-2005, 04:17 PM
Burnett for Marte and Everett is another one I've heard.

This one I would actually consider b/c we wouldn't be losing much of anything production-wise. Frank, Dye, and Gload (when he comes up) will get Carl's at-bats and El Duque can move to the Pen. All that would be left for Kenny to do is pick up another bullpen arm (a lefty if possible) so we don't have to deal with Jenks, Walker, or Vizcaino pitching late w/ the game on the line. It would be tough to give up Marte, but he hasn't exactly been stellar when brought in to stop the bleeding this year.

The more I think sbout it, the more I like this possibility. It is, however, just a rumor, so take it as such.

BeviBall!
07-15-2005, 04:19 PM
Add another to those who believe Joe Randa or Tony Graffanino will save the world.

I enjoy the way you selectively omitted the fact that I called them "back-up utility men". But whatever makes you feel big & strong, I suppose.

Jjav829
07-15-2005, 04:23 PM
Gammons on 790

Talking about the Fish.

He's talking about a few trade proposals.

Twinkies looking at Lowell.

A AJ rumor:

Marlins get:
Contreras, Marte, McCarthy, Anderson

White Sox get:
AJ Burnett, Lowell

It's Gammons, so that it for what it's worth. This would be a horrible deal in my opinion. Lowell has far too big of a contract for my liking.

A_ROW33
07-15-2005, 04:25 PM
Add another to those who believe Joe Randa or Tony Graffanino will save the world.

How bout get vizquel and move Uribe to 3rd, and mix crede in now and then

soltrain21
07-15-2005, 04:27 PM
If we are giving up all of that then we better be getting more than those 2. Lowell is terrible this year and we are giving up our two best prospects, a good starter (although inconsistent) AND Marte?!

maurice
07-15-2005, 04:31 PM
It's Gammons, so that it for what it's worth. This would be a horrible deal in my opinion. Lowell has far too big of a contract for my liking.

I agree. IIRC, Lowell has 2 years left on a fat contract after this season.

Also, including both Contreras and Marte in the deal makes little sense unless KW is sure that he's gonna lock up Burnett (ala Garcia last year), that Burnett will stay healthy, and that KW will later add a very good BP lefty. Burnett's primary advantage over Contreras is his age.

santo=dorf
07-15-2005, 04:38 PM
If its Contreras (with his contract), Marte, and a prospect, I'd do it. Use Contreras' money as a start towards resigning him too.

I'd rather have Contreras than Burnett, hell I'd rather trade for Kerry Wood than AJ Burnett.

Burnett's outing last night. 5 IP, 6 H, 6 ER, 4 BB's, 3 K's, 3 HR.

:chunks

I really don't see what's the big deal with this guy.

-Can't stay healthy. Made a career high 29 starts back in 2002.
-Career 3.80 in the NL, and a pitcher's park.
-Has never won more than 12 games in a season.
-With the past offseason market, he's in line to get $10+ million per year.

I'd much rather have Contreras for next year.

BeviBall!
07-15-2005, 04:41 PM
The deal with AJ is that he's young, has nasty stuff and can pop 100. Remember, we usually have good luck with reclemation projects on the mound.

samram
07-15-2005, 04:42 PM
I enjoy the way you selectively omitted the fact that I called them "back-up utility men". But whatever makes you feel big & strong, I suppose.

Ok, I'll apologize. I saw that you thought a backup was the most important need, but you're the first to mention Randa as a backup, and I didn't think you would want KW to go full press after a utility guy. We've seen plenty of the "trade anyone on the team for Randa" posts this season. My problem with Graffanino is he's not much better defensively than Ozuna, which is not good.

samram
07-15-2005, 04:43 PM
How bout get vizquel and move Uribe to 3rd, and mix crede in now and then

Crede is a better player than Uribe when healthy, so if Vizquel was acquired, it would be he and Crede on the left side of the infield. The problem with Vizquel is he has two more years on his contract and he's already 38 or 39.

santo=dorf
07-15-2005, 04:45 PM
The deal with AJ is that he's young, has nasty stuff and can pop 100. Remember, we usually have good luck with reclemation projects on the mound.
He's going to be a free agent after the year. If we had control of him for a longer time, I could understand, but I sure as hell wouldn't sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal worth $10 million per if he's going to be a "project."

Chips
07-15-2005, 04:48 PM
Burnett is to injury prone. I would rather have Contreas, where he is either on or off than a Burnett who is hurt. Contreas looked pretty sharp in his last two outings.

Jjav829
07-15-2005, 04:49 PM
I agree. IIRC, Lowell has 2 years left on a fat contract after this season.

Also, including both Contreras and Marte in the deal makes little sense unless KW is sure that he's gonna lock up Burnett (ala Garcia last year), that Burnett will stay healthy, and that KW will later add a very good BP lefty. Burnett's primary advantage over Contreras is his age.

I would hope that if this trade were to go down, with both Contreras and McCarthy being traded, that KW would lock up Burnett to a reasonable deal. Perhaps a deal like this would be contingent on the Sox getting a window to try to reach a deal on a new contract with Burnett. I would also hope that the Marlins pick up a bit of Lowell's contract. I want to say he's due to make $7.5 million or $8 million for the next two years. Granted this isn't the best year to judge Lowell, as he is struggling mightily. He's having a season similar to Konerko's 2003 season. Will he bounce back? Probably. But I don't know that I want to take that chance.

sircaffey1
07-15-2005, 04:52 PM
I'd rather have Contreras than Burnett, hell I'd rather trade for Kerry Wood than AJ Burnett.

Burnett's outing last night. 5 IP, 6 H, 6 ER, 4 BB's, 3 K's, 3 HR.

I'd much rather have Contreras for next year.

Let's wait for Contreras to walk another 7 in 4 innings, and then see how people feel. Contreras will make $8+ million next season. Trading him away for Burnett even if it's a rental of Burnett would in a way not be rental. We free up that 8 million to work with somewhere else. With payroll up and the dumping of Contreras's brutal contract, we could easily sign a upper end free agent pitcher. If it's Burnett or someone else.

BeviBall!
07-15-2005, 04:54 PM
Ok, I'll apologize. I saw that you thought a backup was the most important need, but you're the first to mention Randa as a backup, and I didn't think you would want KW to go full press after a utility guy. We've seen plenty of the "trade anyone on the team for Randa" posts this season. My problem with Graffanino is he's not much better defensively than Ozuna, which is not good.

That's cool, man... I've just seen how people have been castrated at the mere mention of Randa.

Also, with Harris soon to be gone, there is a huge need for depth. Myself, I'd rather Hillenbrand come here. Cheaper no doubt.

samram
07-15-2005, 05:01 PM
I would hope that if this trade were to go down, with both Contreras and McCarthy being traded, that KW would lock up Burnett to a reasonable deal. Perhaps a deal like this would be contingent on the Sox getting a window to try to reach a deal on a new contract with Burnett. I would also hope that the Marlins pick up a bit of Lowell's contract. I want to say he's due to make $7.5 million or $8 million for the next two years. Granted this isn't the best year to judge Lowell, as he is struggling mightily. He's having a season similar to Konerko's 2003 season. Will he bounce back? Probably. But I don't know that I want to take that chance.

Have the Yankees given cash for Contreras's contract to the Sox or do they pay in increments? If they're paying in increments, would they have to continue to pay if Contreras is on another team?

bumptious96
07-15-2005, 05:03 PM
If Marte is going to pitch like he did last night for the rest of the 2nd half, there's no way im including him in a package for burnett (He's lookin like he did in 2003). It seems like every big name starter has flaws (Schmidt's velocity, Burnett's injury history and getting shelled). I'd rather take my chances with Contreras for the rest of the year and hope he can repeat last night more often than not.

I think we're an arm short in the bullpen because I still don't trust Vizcaino and Shingo is just starting to come on within the past couple weeks. I'd look for Billy Wagner closer to the deadline and maybe Steady Eddie.

Also, If Crede's back is going to be hurting him for the rest of the year, I'd hope Kenny would find some one who could at least split time and have a good glove at third cause we don't have someone like that. I am all for making a big splash like Clemens (won't happen), but all the big name starters being talked about in big trades aren't going to make the splash many people think they will cause they simply aren't performing that well in a poor national league....How well do they think they'd pitch against AL powerhouses?

34 Inch Stick
07-15-2005, 05:36 PM
I don't think any kind of trade should be made until El Duque makes another start. Maybe we do not need to get another starting pitcher after all.

MRKARNO
07-15-2005, 06:04 PM
Seriously, the Contreras, Marte AND McCarthy for Burnett rumors are terrible ones IMO. Even the Everett, Marte and McCarthy/Anderson rumors sound awful to me. In the case of the first, is it really worth it to give up on one of the top prospect in the majors and potentially one of the best setup men in the majors as well as one of the best pitching prospects for an, at very best, marginal upgrade over Contreras? In the other trade possibility, is it worth giving up a clubhouse leader and valuable bench player, as well as those other two for Burnett?

If it really is going to take near that much to get Burnett, then count me way out of the pro-acquiring Burnett camp. His health is somewhat of a question and I cannot definitely say that he is an upgrade over Contreras.

Contreras's ERA by month
April 3.04
May 3.51
June 5.81
July 3.12

Looks to me like a pretty consistant pitcher of the same calibur as Burnett who hit a rough patch in June. The only thing about Contreras is that I would have issue with him in the postseason, especially against the Red Sox and possibly the Yanks. He'd probably be ok about anyone else (but Oakland). His upcoming starts against Boston are very big IMO.

But getting back to the main topic, if it's really going to take that much to get a solid pitcher off the trade market, then I just don't think it's worth it to do so. It would be better to try to acquire a top reliever or 3b. I'd rather take my chances with El Duque and Contreras than to trade multiple key parts for one more starter. This team has gotten where it is because of balance and depth and there is no reason to upset that.

IowaSox1971
07-15-2005, 06:21 PM
I would not include Marte in any deal. Cotts let the lead slip away against Oakland on Sunday, and I don't believe he is ready to be our No. 1 left-hander out of the pen down the stretch. (At worst, Marte and Cotts could share the role.) Marte is much more proven, and I would feel much more comfortable about the bullpen situation if we keep Marte and Cotts.

Also, Burnett is not enough of an upgrade over Contreras to be giving up all of these proposed extra parts in this deal.

Podzilla_40
07-15-2005, 06:22 PM
I wish we could've gotten Zach Day...Burnett is way too costly considering we would lose Marte. He's too valuable when healthy. We could add another starter that is solid and could work out of the bullpen (could've been Day).

CYGarland20
07-15-2005, 09:16 PM
Espn just said that AJ Burnett (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Yeah, for the Marlins :angry:

They even said Mike Lowell could be thrown in.

I say NO Way. I would seriously think about a Contreras-Cotts 4 Burnett deal. Some people here forget tha JC had a 5.50 era last year, and has an 8 million dollar contract. Yes he has had a pretty good first half, but Burnett has been more consistent this year, and last for that matter. Plus he's ONLY 28. If we can sign him to a 2 year extension, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Brian26
07-15-2005, 09:24 PM
In regards to all of these rumors, all I've got to say to KW is this:

Sell high. IF he's going to deal Marte and/or JC, now is the time to do it.

CYGarland20
07-15-2005, 09:30 PM
In regards to all of these rumors, all I've got to say to KW is this:

Sell high. IF he's going to deal Marte and/or JC, now is the time to do it. For JC...yes, but not sure about Marte :?:

buehrle4cy05
07-15-2005, 10:18 PM
Trading Damaso would put a lot of pressure on Cotts to fill in as the go-to lefty in the bullpen. Neal's good, but I haven't seen him pitch under pressure that often this year.

MeanFish
07-15-2005, 10:38 PM
I would seriously think about a Contreras-Cotts 4 Burnett deal. Some people here forget tha JC had a 5.50 era last year, and has an 8 million dollar contract. Yes he has had a pretty good first half, but Burnett has been more consistent this year, and last for that matter. Plus he's ONLY 28. If we can sign him to a 2 year extension, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Jon Garland had a 4.91 ERA last year, should we trade him too? It should be pretty obvious that Contreras is better than a 5.50 ERA pitcher. He was in 2003, he is in 2005. 2004 is the anomaly, because his head was all wrong. Period. Also, I hate the "but he has an eight million dollar salary next year" argument. Who do you have in mind that's worth eight million dollars, AND fits the mold of this team?

AJ Burnett is nothing more than Kerry Wood redux. If he was on the north side we'd be grilling him the same exact way we tear into Wood. Another injury prone stuff pitcher with "tons of upside." Yawn. Our bullpen is one of our key strengths. Marte is worth more than Burnett almost by himself. No teal. For that matter, so is Everett because we can count on him day in and day out. Contreras might be old, but so what?

Don't buy the ESPN Kool-Aid. They're dumb enough to see Marte as a nobody. They're silly enough to think that Anderson and McCarthy aren't worth a washed up 3rd basemen and an injury prone pitcher by themselves. But mostly, they see Contreras, who they STILL only know as "that guy who sucked for the Yankees" as a bum and Burnett as one of their "flashy" press-worthy up-and-coming guys. Like Kerry Wood once was.

All of those trade ideas are awful. This team has no real holes, and there's no reason to go out and create new ones for no reason at all.

Cowhead418
07-15-2005, 10:42 PM
This would be an AWFUL trade. Why the hell are we giving up our two best prospects plus Marte plus Contreras for a Carrie Woods clone? NO WAY.:angry:

balke
07-15-2005, 10:48 PM
This would be an AWFUL trade. Why the hell are we giving up our two best prospects plus Marte plus Contreras for a Carrie Woods clone? NO WAY.:angry:


Couldn't agree more. Contreras has been great lately, Burnett hasn't. Even in his 16 K game or whatever it was, he gave up 4 ER. If we get Contreras to pitch more like he has lately, we'll have the better pitcher with the better arm. Contreras' ERA this season is from Coors field East, he's not tipping pitches anymore, and he still has #'s comparable to Burnett. Then to throw in Marte or Cotts is just a pure rip-off. Both have been great.

I'm even starting to turn on my Schmidt support. Jose can be so dominant when he does what he's supposed to. So far, 2 games in a row he has. Our bullpen can't afford to lose anyone right now, especially not Marte or Cotts.

santo=dorf
07-15-2005, 10:53 PM
I would seriously think about a Contreras-Cotts 4 Burnett deal. Some people here forget tha JC had a 5.50 era last year, and has an 8 million dollar contract. Yes he has had a pretty good first half, but Burnett has been more consistent this year, and last for that matter. Plus he's ONLY 28. If we can sign him to a 2 year extension, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

For the last ****ing time:
CONTRERAS ONLY MAKES $6 MILLION PER YEAR FROM THE SOX!!:angry:

Contreras has had 3 outings where he has walked 5 or more batters, and Burnett has had 2 including his recent 14 K, 125 pitches, 4 ER, in 6 innings outing.

Look at Burnett's career numbers and tell me what he is worth.

SOXSINCE'70
07-15-2005, 10:58 PM
:hawk
"No".

He gone
07-16-2005, 01:19 AM
I still think this would be a good trade for the Marlins only :angry:


I don't want to see Marte or any prospects (especially Anderson) traded for someone who might be around for only a couple of months. I definitly don't think AJ Burnett is the player who is going to take us to the promise land.

sircaffey1
07-16-2005, 01:35 AM
For the last ****ing time:
CONTRERAS ONLY MAKES $6 MILLION PER YEAR FROM THE SOX!!:angry:

Contreras has had 3 outings where he has walked 5 or more batters, and Burnett has had 2 including his recent 14 K, 125 pitches, 4 ER, in 6 innings outing.

Look at Burnett's career numbers and tell me what he is worth.

Trading him would free up $8.5 million, no? Then he has a salary of $8.5.

TaylorStSox
07-16-2005, 01:56 AM
:chunks!!!!!!!!!!

wsbaseball9
07-16-2005, 03:34 AM
burnett and contreas are virtually the same pitcher except burnett is younger...tons of potentional, but inconsistent and not real smart guys...i wouldnt sac prospects and definatley not marte for youth who cant even get a 15th win in a single season...plus contreas and marte just dominated last night like someone said...plus if your saying prospects and talking about b-mac...worst trade ever

Mr. White Sox
07-16-2005, 04:52 AM
An A.J. rumor:

Marlins get:
Contreras, Marte, McCarthy, Anderson

White Sox get:
AJ Burnett, Lowell

:hawk:DJ:KW :reinsy:kmarte:jauron :ME:
"EWWWW!"
NO! NO NO NO! Even take out Anderson, and still...NO!

Optipessimism
07-16-2005, 05:05 AM
If we are going to try to take two guys from one team, let's try to get Baez + Huff from Tampa. Both guys are likely to be available, and IMO Baez + Huff >>>> Lowell + Burnett.

Lets not forget that we have one of the best, if not THE best, bullpens in all of baseball right now (assuming Marte is healthy). The last thing we want to do is make a trade that takes away the awesome depth we have.

Face it: TB is going nowhere. We could get Huff + Baez for a lot less ML talent than it would take to get Lowell + Burnett. Lowell + Burnett gives us a replacement we need (for Crede if he will not be able to play regularly) and a SP who is not as good as Contreras when they both are at their best. In essence, we are trading a key part of our bullpen for a need and an equal at best. If we trade for Huff + Baez, we are trading minor leaguers and possibly lower level ML talent for two guys who can help us now. Unless the Marlins want to deal Burnett/Willis/Cabrera they have no one at all who IMO can help us now. Lets call TB and see what it takes to get something like that done. If it can't be done, then make no trade at all. I'd rather see nothing happen than KW make a trade that would no nothing other than take away from this team.

gosox41
07-16-2005, 08:52 AM
Espn just said that AJ Burnett (3-6) for Contreras, Marte and a prospect would be a good trade :?:

Yeah, for the Marlins :angry:

They even said Mike Lowell could be thrown in.

I say NO Way.


Well, I don't know. Every team can use more .230 hitting third basemen.


Bob

Tragg
07-16-2005, 09:08 AM
Some teams really work the media well - we're not one of them. They hype their players, get Gammons to say what a fit they'd be for certain clubs etc. We are often the target

Anyway, Mike Lowell is a STIFF. I know he's had a couple of good years, but he's a Konerko in drag. Fla has been trying to unload this guy for 2 years as (and that was before his current bad year). There are 3 players Fla has been trying to dump: BUrnett, Lowell and Pierre

It's amazing how we're consistently linked with the putative cast-offs. We were linked with Nomar; we were linked with PIerre a bit in the offseason; and now with Burnett and Lowell. I think a lot of it is because of a couple of things early in his career (the ridiculous Durham trade when Beane led him around by his ear; the Baldwin trade when he got the wrong player, but didn't repeal the trade) the national media sees him as sort of gullible.

Stay away from the Marlins junk Kenny. Let the Dodgers do business with them.

Tragg
07-16-2005, 09:14 AM
If we are going to try to take two guys from one team, let's try to get Baez + Huff from Tampa. Both guys are likely to be available, and IMO Baez + Huff >>>> Lowell + Burnett.

Lets not forget that we have one of the best, if not THE best, bullpens in all of baseball right now (assuming Marte is healthy). The last thing we want to do is make a trade that takes away the awesome depth we have.

Face it: TB is going nowhere. We could get Huff + Baez for a lot less ML talent than it would take to get Lowell + Burnett. Lowell + Burnett gives us a replacement we need (for Crede if he will not be able to play regularly) and a SP who is not as good as Contreras when they both are at their best. I agree with you but you better duck when you say that Contreras is even worthy to be in Burnett's prescence, much less actually better than Burnett.

I don't like the SOB, I think he's an incredibly mediocre player, and I am hesitant about putting a player with such a losing history on our team, but go get Randa if Crede can't play; Willie Harris and an A ball prospect should do the trick.

Our pitching staff is the reason we are where we are. But they aren't any good - let's trade them away for below .500 pitchers on .500 national league teams.

Cowhead418
07-16-2005, 10:32 AM
Keep the pitching staff the way it is now unless you can get Wagner, which is doubtful. To give up a top lefty reliever plus your best pitching prospect plus your best position player prospect plus Contreras for a mediocre pitcher plus a terrible third baseman would be absolutely ludicrous and would hurt the team way more than it would help it. DON'T DO IT KENNY! PLEASE DON'T DO IT!:angry:

Optipessimism
07-16-2005, 11:09 AM
I agree with you but you better duck when you say that Contreras is even worthy to be in Burnett's prescence, much less actually better than Burnett.

I don't like the SOB, I think he's an incredibly mediocre player, and I am hesitant about putting a player with such a losing history on our team...

Losing history?

The guy had not fared well in NY, that's all. He was a headcase in the headcase-creating capital of the world. I'm not syaing Burnett is a bad pitcher, but the little I've seen from Burnett, and from his injury history, show that he simply doesn't have as much raw talent as Jose does.

Jose is inconsistent, true. But the same case can be made for Burnett. The difference is that Burnett is healthy for one year and puts up decent numbers and is fooling everyone into thinking he is going to be some front of the rotation starter when in fact he may only be good enough to get somebody to offer him a bad contract in the offseason. Jose on the other hand has been much improved since coming here and seeing the dramatic change he's made since coming from NY there is no reason not to believe that over the course of the season he will become the dominant pitcher he was in Cuba. But then of course the Yanks fought for him so hard in the first place because he was a losing pitcher.

I'm not saying Jose is without his faults, but if we are going to trade a guy who has been for the most part solid mixed in with a few shaky outings for another guy who fits the same bill but also has a history of injuries on his side, what's the point? I'm not opposed to dealling him, but besides Schmidt (a guy who has proven himself) I don't see anyone out there that is supposedly available that would be an improvement. We aren't trying to make the Marlins better people. They are the wrong team to trade with because they are not going to be just dumping anyone for prospects.

balke
07-16-2005, 11:14 AM
I agree with you but you better duck when you say that Contreras is even worthy to be in Burnett's prescence, much less actually better than Burnett.
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Why? Cause he K's people? Right now Contreras is 5-5 with a 3.99 in the AL (1.29 WHIP.. {like it matters} .222 BAA). Burnett is 5-6 with a 3.64 in the NL (1.26 WHIP .240 BAA). Burnett misses a LOT of time with injury like Kerry Wood. The only good thing I see about Burnett is he's pitched 10 more innings than Jose. People hit fastballs in the majors, and the faster they are, the farther they fly.


If we're talking straight up Jose for Burnett, and one mediocre prospect (Or Shingo or Viz or Willie)... maybe. But giving up Marte or something is ridiculous. This guy will probably be back on the DL in 3 weeks.

I will say Burnett's 2002 season was amazing, but I am one who believes Contreras has that potential if he pitches the way he has the past 2 games more consistantly.

fquaye149
07-16-2005, 12:03 PM
I agree with you but you better duck when you say that Contreras is even worthy to be in Burnett's prescence, much less actually better than Burnett.



Yeah. I agree. You better duck so as not to get hit by the poo Tragg is flinging.

Mickster
07-16-2005, 12:34 PM
Yeah. I agree. You better duck so as not to get hit by the poo Tragg is flinging.

:whoflungpoo

Sorry. Couldn't resist. :redneck

MeanFish
07-16-2005, 01:35 PM
Why are we overlooking the injury factor with Burnett? Contreras may be older, but at least he makes it to the mound every fifth day. There's something to be said for that.

beckett21
07-16-2005, 01:38 PM
Why are we overlooking the injury factor with Burnett? Contreras may be older, but at least he makes it to the mound every fifth day. There's something to be said for that.

I don't think anyone is overlooking it.

FWIW he has remained healthy since missing 2003 with TJ surgery. Pitchers nowadays seem to come back stronger after this procedure.

I believe Burnett has only missed one start this season. Yes, there is some risk. But I think that it is overblown. Either that, or people continue to confuse him with Beckett, who is on the DL every other month. Burnett is not.

Tragg
07-16-2005, 06:42 PM
Losing history?


I said RANDA has a losing history, not Burnett.
Burnett has a case of Weaver/Wooditis

Tragg
07-16-2005, 06:44 PM
Why? Cause he K's people? Right now Contreras is 5-5 with a 3.99 in the AL (1.29 WHIP.. {like it matters} .222 BAA). Burnett is 5-6 with a 3.64 in the NL (1.26 WHIP .240 BAA). Burnett misses a LOT of time with injury like Kerry Wood. The only good thing I see about Burnett is he's pitched 10 more innings than Jose. People hit fastballs in the majors, and the faster they are, the farther they fly.

. I'm with you - I've made 30 posts in 2 threads, in which I've said the same thing you're saying. Check the other thread and see some of the adjectives used to describe someone who WOULDN'T take a Marte/Contreras/TopProspect for Burnett deal.

I notice that on this thread, the tide has turned against the trade. Hurray!

Tragg
07-16-2005, 06:49 PM
Yeah. I agree. You better duck so as not to get hit by the poo Tragg is flinging.
Take a look at the other thread when I'm fighting 1 (me against BUrnett) versus 10 (for burnett). So I can only deduce that "pooh" means sticking up for Sox players over high-contract Marlin players. Pretty telling.

balke
07-16-2005, 07:18 PM
I'm with you - I've made 30 posts in 2 threads, in which I've said the same thing you're saying. Check the other thread and see some of the adjectives used to describe someone who WOULDN'T take a Marte/Contreras/TopProspect for Burnett deal.

I notice that on this thread, the tide has turned against the trade. Hurray!


Sorry, the teal on your post wasn't working.

fquaye149
07-17-2005, 01:08 AM
Take a look at the other thread when I'm fighting 1 (me against BUrnett) versus 10 (for burnett). So I can only deduce that "pooh" means sticking up for Sox players over high-contract Marlin players. Pretty telling.

No. I'm talking about your insistence that Burnett is head and shoulders above Contreras.

That is a flying pile of bull****.