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RKMeibalane
07-15-2005, 10:00 AM
Recently, a few people have been complaining about Iguchi's production, saying that he hasn't produced as expected. I think people are being too hard on him. Iguchi is capable of hitting 20-25 home runs without a great deal of effort. He put up numbers like that for several seasons in Japan. The primary reason for his lower power numbers this season is becuase of his position in the batting order. As a number two hitter, his responsibility is to get on base and help advance runners in order to create RBI opportunities for Thomas, Konerko, Dye, etc. He isn't around to hit home runs.

That said, I have the impression Iguchi is going to make some people eat their words before this season. Ever since I first watched him play, I've had the feeling that Tadahito is going to something special this season. I don't know if that "something" is going to involve a series of games late in the season, a great defensive play, an at-bat, or even a single pitch, but I am convinced that Gooch will do something special, something so important that people will be talking about it for a long time to come. Mark my words. It will happen.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-15-2005, 10:20 AM
Recently, a few people have been complaining about Iguchi's production, saying that he hasn't produced as expected. I think people are being too hard on him. Iguchi is capable of hitting 20-25 home runs without a great deal of effort. He put up numbers like that for several seasons in Japan. The primary reason for his lower power numbers this season is becuase of his position in the batting order. As a number two hitter, his responsibility is to get on base and help advance runners in order to create RBI opportunities for Thomas, Konerko, Dye, etc. He isn't around to hit home runs.

That said, I have the impression Iguchi is going to make some people eat their words before this season. Ever since I first watched him play, I've had the feeling that Tadahito is going to something special this season. I don't know if that "something" is going to involve a series of games late in the season, a great defensive play, an at-bat, or even a single pitch, but I am convinced that Gooch will do something special, something so important that people will be talking about it for a long time to come. Mark my words. It will happen.

For a guy batting in the 2 spot, he strikes out a lot. As far as his job getting on base...well, .338 on base percentage isn't exactly stellar. Don't get me wrong, he's been very important to what the Sox have accomplished, but I feel that he was playing over his head early in the first half. He's worth the money we gave him, and he's a big upgrade over Harris, but the love affair is a bit much. Imagine his production on last year's team and all of a sudden he wouldn't be so loved. First place really covers up a lot of flaws.

34 Inch Stick
07-15-2005, 10:30 AM
I see him as a 10-15 home run maximum guy. However, I think he has the ability to hit .300 and steal 35 bases. He does so many other things solidly I think he has been a steal.

I expect him to have a great 2006.

EastCoastSoxFan
07-15-2005, 10:32 AM
During last night's game the Cleveland announcers put up a stat that of the 15 times Iguchi has come to bat with a runner on 3rd and < 2 outs (now 16 after his AB in the top of the 9th), he has gotten the runner home 9 times.
That's pretty damned good.
Not to mention the number of AB's he has basically given up to advance a runner to 3rd with < 2 outs, which, unless they happen to be bunts, are not counted as sacrifice hits even though they accomplish the same thing.
Iguchi = GREAT acquisition.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2005, 10:38 AM
Furthermore, how many times does he just take strike one and strike two in order to allow Podsednik the opportunity to steal bases? Hawk and DJ have pointed this out on several occasions. Sure, Iguchi could swing at some of those pitches, but then he might line out and cause a double play. JMHO, but Iguchi deserves at least a small measure of credit for Pods 47 steals.

Sxy Mofo
07-15-2005, 10:39 AM
During last night's game the Cleveland announcers put up a stat that of the 15 times Iguchi has come to bat with a runner on 3rd and < 2 outs (now 16 after his AB in the top of the 9th), he has gotten the runner home 9 times.
That's pretty damned good.
Not to mention the number of AB's he has basically given up to advance a runner to 3rd with < 2 outs, which, unless they happen to be bunts, are not counted as sacrifice hits even though they accomplish the same thing.
Iguchi = GREAT acquisition.


Exactly. I'm not sure all of baseball's minor rules, but I'd assume a sacrifice counts negatively towards your OBP.

Plus, if you think about all the trouble our sox team has with pitchers they've never seen before... well, it's that way for Iguchi EVERY night.

He's wonderful.

onenine19
07-15-2005, 10:42 AM
Exactly. I'm not sure all of baseball's minor rules, but I'd assume a sacrifice counts negatively towards your OBP.

Plus, if you think about all the trouble our sox team has with pitchers they've never seen before... well, it's that way for Iguchi EVERY night.

He's wonderful.

Iguchi = Best all around "Basesball" Player on the team

EastCoastSoxFan
07-15-2005, 10:50 AM
Exactly. I'm not sure all of baseball's minor rules, but I'd assume a sacrifice counts negatively towards your OBP.

Plus, if you think about all the trouble our sox team has with pitchers they've never seen before... well, it's that way for Iguchi EVERY night.

He's wonderful.
A sacrifice bunt or a run-scoring sacrifice fly does not count as an official AB, therefore it does not affect a players BA. A ground ball or flyball that advances a runner from second to third counts as an out against a players BA.

fquaye149
07-15-2005, 10:53 AM
For a guy batting in the 2 spot, he strikes out a lot. As far as his job getting on base...well, .338 on base percentage isn't exactly stellar. Don't get me wrong, he's been very important to what the Sox have accomplished, but I feel that he was playing over his head early in the first half. He's worth the money we gave him, and he's a big upgrade over Harris, but the love affair is a bit much. Imagine his production on last year's team and all of a sudden he wouldn't be so loved. First place really covers up a lot of flaws.

Considering how often he moves the runner over to third and how excellent his defense is, if he were on our team last year we would have probably been a sight better.

As for his numbers, well, as Hawk likes to point out (every damn time it happens) advancing the runner by hitting the ball to the right side hurts your avg as much as a strikeout.

If Pods weren't on the team, yes Iguchi wouldn't get as many fastballs, but he also wouldn't have to take as many strikes or drop down his swing to hit the ball to the right side for the runner on second no outs situation. He would probably be putting up better numbers if he weren't too busy sacrificing himself to help the team win.

He's not an allstar by any stretch of the imagination, but he's a hell of a 2 hitter, he should be a favorite for ROTY, and he's not been overrated by the fans. He's a huge part of WHY this team is winning. Period.

Sxy Mofo
07-15-2005, 11:11 AM
A sacrifice bunt or a run-scoring sacrifice fly does not count as an official AB, therefore it does not affect a players BA. A ground ball or flyball that advances a runner from second to third counts as an out against a players BA.


I was talking about OBP, not BA.

So does a sacrifice affect a players' OBP, that's what i'm not sure of, I would assume it does. It is my understanding that OBP counts EVERY at bat a player takes, and the OBP is how many times out of every single at bat you're standing on first (except for a fielder's choice). And when a player is in a sacrifice situation, he wouldn't be standing on first, so I'd assume a sacrifice counts negatively towards your OBP.

I could also be completely wrong.

wildcat
07-15-2005, 11:24 AM
I was talking about OBP, not BA.

So does a sacrifice affect a players' OBP, that's what i'm not sure of, I would assume it does. It is my understanding that OBP counts EVERY at bat a player takes, and the OBP is how many times out of every single at bat you're standing on first (except for a fielder's choice). And when a player is in a sacrifice situation, he wouldn't be standing on first, so I'd assume a sacrifice counts negatively towards your OBP.

I could also be completely wrong.

It's my understanding that sacrific flys do count as an at-bat in calculating the OBP, but sacrifice bunts do not.

So.. (H + BB + HBP) / (AB + BB + HBP + SF) = OBP

Sxy Mofo
07-15-2005, 11:29 AM
It's my understanding that sacrific flys do count as an at-bat in calculating the OBP, but sacrifice bunts do not.

So.. (H + BB + HBP) / (AB + BB + HBP + SF) = OBP


so i was partially right. Seems like the story of my life.


Perhaps it's done this way because in a sacrifice fly, you are also trying to get a hit, whereas a sac bunt you are truly 100% giving yourself up.

Sxy Mofo
07-15-2005, 11:30 AM
and what about reaching on an error? Does that count as positive OBP or does that count negative OBP, or not count at all in OBP. We need some anal all knowing rule monger to come enlighten us... or me at least.

I_Love_This_team
07-15-2005, 11:36 AM
Tadahito Iguchi is flat out solid. Hes a good fielder he can hit he has pretty good power, but most importantly he does what he is supposed to do in the #2 hole. He is exactly what we wanted.

wildcat
07-15-2005, 12:28 PM
and what about reaching on an error? Does that count as positive OBP or does that count negative OBP, or not count at all in OBP. We need some anal all knowing rule monger to come enlighten us... or me at least.

Well, I don't claim to be all knowing, but I believe that reaching on an error counts negatively toward OBP, since OBP is designed to demonstrate a batter's ability to get on base due to his own actions. Since reaching on an error counts as an at-bat, but not a hit, it's already figured in. At least, I think that's correct.

miker
07-15-2005, 12:32 PM
Tadahito is a solid player that is a considerable upgrade over Harris and one of the many reasons we have the league's best record.

Should he continue his adjustments to the American League and life in the U.S.A., he will continue to do well.

jkrohn
07-15-2005, 12:33 PM
1. Add up all plate appearances. This is every time you come to bat. 2. Subtract sacrifice bunts. The number you get is your total at bats. 3. Add up all the times you reached base safely, which should include hits, walks and the number of times you reached base by a hit by pitch. This total does not include the times you reached base because of an error or a fielder's choice. 4. Divide the times you reached base safely by your total at bats. 5. Round to the third decimal place. For example, .41051 is .411.

CHIsoxNation
07-15-2005, 12:42 PM
Recently, a few people have been complaining about Iguchi's production, saying that he hasn't produced as expected.

Really? Next to Pods, I think that Iguchi was the best move Kenny made all winter. This is his first year and all, I believe he is playing as expected for someone coming into a new league. I am sure all of his offensive numbers will be higher next year.

NealCotts4Life
07-15-2005, 12:46 PM
Not to mention this is the 1st time he's batted 2nd regularly. (I think Hawk and DJ have said this) Also his fielding is superb. He has tremendous range.

Sxy Mofo
07-15-2005, 12:53 PM
1. Add up all plate appearances. This is every time you come to bat. 2. Subtract sacrifice bunts. The number you get is your total at bats. 3. Add up all the times you reached base safely, which should include hits, walks and the number of times you reached base by a hit by pitch. This total does not include the times you reached base because of an error or a fielder's choice. 4. Divide the times you reached base safely by your total at bats. 5. Round to the third decimal place. For example, .41051 is .411.

Thanks. That's about the way I would've guessed it to be, but didn't know exactly what every situation called for in terms of calculating OBP.

hawkjt
07-15-2005, 01:09 PM
I'm sorry but anyone that complains about Gooch's performance to date has not watched all the games or does not understand baseball. Numbers do not tell the whole tale and this is clearly the case here. Taking pitches like he does is not something anyone else on the roster does other than Frank. Hitting with 2 strikes is hard. going to the right side is hard. getting hits to the right side is hard. Solid defense also. Pods and him are a team that are machine like this first half.beautiful to watch.

RKMeibalane
07-15-2005, 01:53 PM
Really? Next to Pods, I think that Iguchi was the best move Kenny made all winter. This is his first year and all, I believe he is playing as expected for someone coming into a new league. I am sure all of his offensive numbers will be higher next year.

I'm afraid so. There was a thread posted a few days ago showing his month-by-month splits, and someone was whining about how his average had gone down.

wdelaney72
07-15-2005, 01:56 PM
This guy ALWAYS makes the attempt to hit to the right side when there's a runner on base.

A lot of Scotty's runs scored has been helped by Iguchi. Plus, he's played the field exceptionally.

I love Iguchi.

RMSoxFan
07-15-2005, 02:28 PM
I agree that Iguchi was the second most important addition to the team. He is one of the better no. 2 hitters out there. However, he does strike out too much to be the best no. 2. Nellie Fox used to average something like 14 strikeouts per season. That makes it a whole lot easier to hit-and-run. Iguchi is on pace for 115 K and only 47 BB. Those numbers are a little tough for an ideal no. 2 hitter.

That said, I still think what he has done for the team is impressive, and I can't think of anyone who I would rather have at 2B (except maybe Brian Roberts).

batmanZoSo
07-15-2005, 03:06 PM
Recently, a few people have been complaining about Iguchi's production, saying that he hasn't produced as expected. I think people are being too hard on him. Iguchi is capable of hitting 20-25 home runs without a great deal of effort. He put up numbers like that for several seasons in Japan. The primary reason for his lower power numbers this season is becuase of his position in the batting order. As a number two hitter, his responsibility is to get on base and help advance runners in order to create RBI opportunities for Thomas, Konerko, Dye, etc. He isn't around to hit home runs.

That said, I have the impression Iguchi is going to make some people eat their words before this season. Ever since I first watched him play, I've had the feeling that Tadahito is going to something special this season. I don't know if that "something" is going to involve a series of games late in the season, a great defensive play, an at-bat, or even a single pitch, but I am convinced that Gooch will do something special, something so important that people will be talking about it for a long time to come. Mark my words. It will happen.

Well, he's already had seemingly dozens of big, clutch hits that have won us games directly, or proved to be game winners. If the game's on the line, he's the guy you want.

balke
07-15-2005, 03:13 PM
Tads has had some bad luck this season with lineouts. He's a great player, always where the ball is when hit to the right side. He plays his position flawlessly, and takes great at-bats. When at the plate he takes pitches, and makes contact. When he strikes out, he at least eats up pitches. He should have a rise in Avg. this half of the season, but I don't know if extra base hits are going to go up or not. We just need him to try and get Pods to 3rd as much as possible for Frank. He's been good about that all season.

AaronsAmigos
07-15-2005, 03:34 PM
I think iguchi has played amazing but the only thing i've noticed is that it seems to me that he doesn't know how to turn on the ball, all he does is hit it to right field, and that might be why his power numbers are really low

itsnotrequired
07-15-2005, 03:40 PM
Tads has had some bad luck this season with lineouts. He's a great player, always where the ball is when hit to the right side. He plays his position flawlessly, and takes great at-bats. When at the plate he takes pitches, and makes contact. When he strikes out, he at least eats up pitches. He should have a rise in Avg. this half of the season, but I don't know if extra base hits are going to go up or not. We just need him to try and get Pods to 3rd as much as possible for Frank. He's been good about that all season.

Iguchi hasn't committed an error in his last 30 games (126 chances). 4th in the AL for second basemen with a .985 fielding precentage.

Plays his position flwlessly, indeed.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-15-2005, 05:19 PM
I'm sorry but anyone that complains about Gooch's performance to date has not watched all the games or does not understand baseball. Numbers do not tell the whole tale and this is clearly the case here. Taking pitches like he does is not something anyone else on the roster does other than Frank. Hitting with 2 strikes is hard. going to the right side is hard. getting hits to the right side is hard. Solid defense also. Pods and him are a team that are machine like this first half.beautiful to watch.

This "if you think X you don't know baseball" crap is getting old. All good 2 slot hitters take pitches. The difference is, the best 2 slot hitters can hit with 2 strikes. Look, he's a good player, but he's no Joey Cora. Cora struck out about once every 11 at bats and he took THOUSANDS of pitches in his career. To compare, Iguchi strikes out once every 4 and a half at bats.

Iguchi is a good player and he is certainly helping the team, but contrary to belief around here, you don't have to go all the way to Japan to find a guy with his talent set. You don't have to get a 30 year old rookie, either. He is a tremendous team player and it speaks volumes that he is willing to take pitches for Pods, but it would serve the team better if we had a better 2 strike hitter in the 2 spot and Iguchi in the 9th spot concentrating on getting on base more and stealing. He's one fast dude and hasn't gotten a chance to show it.

JohnBasedowYoda
07-15-2005, 05:23 PM
lately he's been having a rough time moving pods over. been doing some striking out or flying out.....no doubt in my mind he'll return to his previous level he showed at the beginning of the season

fquaye149
07-15-2005, 06:13 PM
This "if you think X you don't know baseball" crap is getting old. All good 2 slot hitters take pitches. The difference is, the best 2 slot hitters can hit with 2 strikes. Look, he's a good player, but he's no Joey Cora. Cora struck out about once every 11 at bats and he took THOUSANDS of pitches in his career. To compare, Iguchi strikes out once every 4 and a half at bats.

Iguchi is a good player and he is certainly helping the team, but contrary to belief around here, you don't have to go all the way to Japan to find a guy with his talent set. You don't have to get a 30 year old rookie, either. He is a tremendous team player and it speaks volumes that he is willing to take pitches for Pods, but it would serve the team better if we had a better 2 strike hitter in the 2 spot and Iguchi in the 9th spot concentrating on getting on base more and stealing. He's one fast dude and hasn't gotten a chance to show it.

Good ****ing God. Who could we have gotten who would be better? Polanco?

a.) he wasn't available
b.) his defense isn't nearly as good

The fact is, Iguchi is far and away the best possible option we could have come away with. He's a hell of a ball player even though he's struggled lately. He's not the best 2 hitter we've had in a while, contrary to what Hawk says, but he's a hell of a 2 hitter. So he strikes out a lot...He's also won a lot of games for us by moving runners over or moving around on the basepaths.

Besides the one weakness: K's, he has been almost a perfect two hitter, never mind his fantastic defense.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-15-2005, 09:25 PM
Good ****ing God. Who could we have gotten who would be better? Polanco?

a.) he wasn't available
b.) his defense isn't nearly as good

The fact is, Iguchi is far and away the best possible option we could have come away with. He's a hell of a ball player even though he's struggled lately. He's not the best 2 hitter we've had in a while, contrary to what Hawk says, but he's a hell of a 2 hitter. So he strikes out a lot...He's also won a lot of games for us by moving runners over or moving around on the basepaths.

Besides the one weakness: K's, he has been almost a perfect two hitter, never mind his fantastic defense.

Where did I say we could have or even should have gotten some one else? He was the only option and he's working out fine. I was just pointing out that, as far as 2nd slot hitters go, he's average. If you're going to take pitches to let Pods steal, you have to be a good 2 strike hitter. He's not. When Kenny retools in the offseason I hope he looks at shortstop and gets somebody that can bump Iguchi down lower in the lineup where he belongs.

fquaye149
07-15-2005, 10:36 PM
Where did I say we could have or even should have gotten some one else? .

Iguchi is a good player and he is certainly helping the team, but contrary to belief around here, you don't have to go all the way to Japan to find a guy with his talent set.

so *** were you saying?

And btw, if you're saying he's an average 2 hole hitter...never mind...because apparently the "you don't know **** about baseball line" is off limits with you.

pczarapa
07-15-2005, 10:43 PM
Recently, a few people have been complaining about Iguchi's production, saying that he hasn't produced as expected. I think people are being too hard on him. Iguchi is capable of hitting 20-25 home runs without a great deal of effort. He put up numbers like that for several seasons in Japan. The primary reason for his lower power numbers this season is becuase of his position in the batting order. As a number two hitter, his responsibility is to get on base and help advance runners in order to create RBI opportunities for Thomas, Konerko, Dye, etc. He isn't around to hit home runs.

That said, I have the impression Iguchi is going to make some people eat their words before this season. Ever since I first watched him play, I've had the feeling that Tadahito is going to something special this season. I don't know if that "something" is going to involve a series of games late in the season, a great defensive play, an at-bat, or even a single pitch, but I am convinced that Gooch will do something special, something so important that people will be talking about it for a long time to come. Mark my words. It will happen.

The most important contribution, IMHO, that Iguchi can make is to play a solid 2B and keep the batting numbers around the same area. I really like him, but I don't expect him to turn into Tony Bernazard. (I know Tony wasn't that stellar, but he signed a ball for me when I was a kid and so he's an all star in my mind)

Fake Chet Lemon
07-15-2005, 10:50 PM
The most important contribution, IMHO, that Iguchi can make is to play a solid 2B and keep the batting numbers around the same area. I really like him, but I don't expect him to turn into Tony Bernazard. (I know Tony wasn't that stellar, but he signed a ball for me when I was a kid and so he's an all star in my mind)


His defense is FAR BETTER than solid. It's tremendous. When there are two outs and a ground ball is hit to the right side, I find myself already walking into the kitchen because he is AUTOMATIC. That one inning against the Cubs was a highlite reel in itself. Remember the recent days of D. Jimenez?

Chisox003
07-15-2005, 10:58 PM
*reads title*

Is awesome. Period.

Next.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-16-2005, 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark'sBrokenFoot
Where did I say we could have or even should have gotten some one else? .




Quote:
Iguchi is a good player and he is certainly helping the team, but contrary to belief around here, you don't have to go all the way to Japan to find a guy with his talent set.
so *** were you saying?

I'm saying he isn't unique. I think he's a good ballplayer and he's the right fit, but there are guys all around the league that do what he does.

And btw, if you're saying he's an average 2 hole hitter...never mind...because apparently the "you don't know **** about baseball line" is off limits with you.

A 2 hole hitter's job is to get on base early and often so the middle of the order has baserunners to drive in. He is on base 33.3% of the time. That is average to below average.

When you have guys like Jose Vidro, Craig Biggio, Jim Edmonds, Carlos Guillen, Omar Visquel, Luis Castillo, and Kenny Lofton batting 2nd for their teams, Iguchi is obviously middle 3rd quality for that slot. All of these guys move runners over just as well as Iguchi, but they all get on base much more often. They all get way more extra base hits without the benefit of the easiest home run park, too, but hey, I don't know **** about baseball, because watching Pods steal 2nd then 3rd and then swinging and missing at strike 3 is way more valuable than all those well rounded 2nd slot hitters.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2005, 12:56 AM
but hey, I don't know **** about baseballThank you for that brief moment of self awareness. :thumbsup:

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-16-2005, 01:23 AM
Thank you for that brief moment of self awareness. :thumbsup:

/yawn

Your putdowns are quite lame.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2005, 01:31 AM
/yawn

Your putdowns are quite lame.There was no put down. I was complimenting you. But, since you obviously have problems getting along with others it might be best if you leave the site. Please make it voluntary.

fquaye149
07-16-2005, 02:12 AM
Quote:


A 2 hole hitter's job is to get on base early and often so the middle of the order has baserunners to drive in. He is on base 33.3% of the time. That is average to below average.



Well it appears you're from the Billy Beane school of 2 hole hitters. A school which amounts to 3rd place in a 4 team division.

I think most of us here, and by most of us, I mean non-dip****s, recognize that the 2 hitters job is NOT necessarily to get on base, but to do what he has to do to help the team by taking strikes to help the leadoff hitter steal or hit the ball to the right side to move the the base runner over.

But like you say, you don't know **** about baseball, so we'll cut you some dumbass wsi poster slack.

fquaye149
07-16-2005, 02:14 AM
Quote:


When you have guys like Jose Vidro, Craig Biggio, Jim Edmonds, Carlos Guillen, Omar Visquel, Luis Castillo, and Kenny Lofton batting 2nd for their teams, .

Which one of those players was available to us?

And Kenny Lofton batting second? Are you smoking idiot juice...wait. Don't answer that.

lostletters
07-16-2005, 02:54 AM
He is a good number 2 guy period.

He strikes out often because he finds himself in a whole more often then any other player because he has to let go of pitches because he lets pods do his thing.

He has been very consistant at doing what is needed in any given situation. The number 2 spot is a very tough spot for players to be in. It requires alot of skill and alot of sacrafice. They may strike out alot/fly out alot and may not hit for high average, but they always allow the runner to advance. He has been invaluable because he does what is needed.

Not many players have the discipline or skills to bat in that spot. He does.

Plus his average will go up and down. I think he is at a low point now, but he is getting the job done. He takes pitches and he sacrafices when he needs to.

Optipessimism
07-16-2005, 04:19 AM
Please, lets not even think of getting down on Iguchi.

May I remind you all that he is a likely ROY candidate. He is in his FIRST year in ML baseball after coming over from Japan. The simple fact that the posters in this thread are already comparing him to some of the best 2 hole hitters is amazing. Not only has he adjusted well, but he has seemed to be able to get back on track after a slump. How often is it that you see a newcomer not be able to pull himself out of a slump? It's very often, but Iguchi can go 0-7 or 0-9 and then get 2 or 3 hits in the next game. He adjusts, and I agree with Hawk in that we have seen nothing yet. This guy to me looks like our mini-Magglio in the 2 spot in the lineup. After he has a year or so in the ML, watch out, because this guy is going to take the league by storm.

Go ahead and laugh. Just wait, because he has done it before and he will do it again. A line of .310 15 60 will be the norm for this guy IMO. Just wait.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-16-2005, 12:14 PM
Which one of those players was available to us?

And Kenny Lofton batting second? Are you smoking idiot juice...wait. Don't answer that.

Firstly, availability doesn't make him better than he is. Like I've told you numerous times already, IGUCHI WAS THE BEST AVAILABLE. What the hell does that have to do with how he compares to other 2nd slot hitters? Nothing. Did I say replace him? No. He's just more suited to hit lower in the lineup.

As for Lofton, ummm, take a look at the box scores some time. I listed him because I did a quick look around the league and he was batting 2nd for the Phillies. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Phillies management, I didn't fill out the lineup card.

fquaye149
07-16-2005, 12:20 PM
Firstly, availability doesn't make him better than he is. Like I've told you numerous times already, IGUCHI WAS THE BEST AVAILABLE. What the hell does that have to do with how he compares to other 2nd slot hitters? Nothing. Did I say replace him? No. He's just more suited to hit lower in the lineup.

As for Lofton, ummm, take a look at the box scores some time. I listed him because I did a quick look around the league and he was batting 2nd for the Phillies. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Phillies management, I didn't fill out the lineup card.

The ****stain phillies are batting Lofton second. Oops, I forgot that the baseball genius of Charlie Manuel has coasted them right to...what was it? Out of contention.

You named maybe 6 players, who, with the exception of Lofton(and probably vizquel and biggio), are the best in the game. Period. I can name 6 pitchers who are better than Roy Oswalt. Does that mean he's not a good pitcher? 6 Outfielders who are better than Vernon Wells. I could even name leadoff hitters who could be considered better than Podsednik. So ****ing what? He's the player we have and is doing a pretty damn good job. There is no way to upgrade over him and there never WAS a way to have done better than him, so what's the point of crying about how he's not as good as Vidro. Hermanson's not as good as Mo. I notice you didn't mention that.

I mean honestly, ***.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-16-2005, 01:59 PM
The ****stain phillies are batting Lofton second. Oops, I forgot that the baseball genius of Charlie Manuel has coasted them right to...what was it? Out of contention.

You named maybe 6 players, who, with the exception of Lofton(and probably vizquel and biggio), are the best in the game. Period. I can name 6 pitchers who are better than Roy Oswalt. Does that mean he's not a good pitcher? 6 Outfielders who are better than Vernon Wells. I could even name leadoff hitters who could be considered better than Podsednik. So ****ing what? He's the player we have and is doing a pretty damn good job. There is no way to upgrade over him and there never WAS a way to have done better than him, so what's the point of crying about how he's not as good as Vidro. Hermanson's not as good as Mo. I notice you didn't mention that.

I mean honestly, ***.

I'm not crying over anything. I said he's middle 3rd and you are throwing a hissy fit over it. There are only 30 teams in the MLB, Iguchi falls right in 10 to 20 range as far as 2nd slot hitters go. Yet again, who was available was never an issue. Why you keep bringing up this strawman is beyond me. I never said upgrade, never said replace him, never said anything other than next year I hope he isn't batting 2nd. Get over it.

White Sox Josh
07-16-2005, 02:00 PM
ANother reason to keep Shingo with Tad struggling.

TaylorStSox
07-16-2005, 02:45 PM
ANother reason to keep Shingo with Tad struggling.

:?:

ilsox7
07-16-2005, 02:47 PM
ANother reason to keep Shingo with Tad struggling.

Just curious, but what's with your love affair with Shingo? This is at least 3 threads you've professed it...

Also, I agree with :?:.

TaylorStSox
07-16-2005, 02:49 PM
Grown men who make millions of dollars don't need "friends" to hang around on the team. Especially when those friends don't contribute much.

fquaye149
07-16-2005, 03:37 PM
I'm not crying over anything. I said he's middle 3rd and you are throwing a hissy fit over it. There are only 30 teams in the MLB, Iguchi falls right in 10 to 20 range as far as 2nd slot hitters go. Yet again, who was available was never an issue. Why you keep bringing up this strawman is beyond me. I never said upgrade, never said replace him, never said anything other than next year I hope he isn't batting 2nd. Get over it.

My point is and always has been why complain about someone who's doing his job just fine?

When no upgrade is available, and never had been, it's even stupider to complaing about someone who's doing his job.

And yet I see more and more people complaining about Iguchi. Again I say what the ****.

The Crede haters are annoying...but at least they have a reason to complain.

Good grief.

Mark'sBrokenFoot
07-16-2005, 03:48 PM
My point is and always has been why complain about someone who's doing his job just fine?

When no upgrade is available, and never had been, it's even stupider to complaing about someone who's doing his job.

And yet I see more and more people complaining about Iguchi. Again I say what the ****.

The Crede haters are annoying...but at least they have a reason to complain.

Good grief.

Then you misunderstand me. I'm not complaining about Iguchi. I'm not complaining about any of the current players. Just looking forward to next year, I'd like to see less pressure on Iguchi. I think he would shine more in a 7th to 9th hitter role, but we don't have the roster for that at the moment.

fquaye149
07-16-2005, 04:27 PM
Then you misunderstand me. I'm not complaining about Iguchi. I'm not complaining about any of the current players. Just looking forward to next year, I'd like to see less pressure on Iguchi. I think he would shine more in a 7th to 9th hitter role, but we don't have the roster for that at the moment.

fair enough. If we can upgrade anywhere, that'd be great. I just don't think there's a lot of options. That's why few people complain about AJ or Rowand even though they're not lighting the world on fire - not any upgrades available, whereas with Paulie and Crede, there are arguments to be made.

Jerome
07-16-2005, 04:47 PM
The only reason I think he's been a bit of a disappointment is that I was SOOO happy to see him come in the offseason based on his good OBP and power stats, and I figured he would get us about 20 hrs or so and make up for the "great power outage" that we supposedly were going to have.

But how many 2 hitters are power threats? Ozzie apparently wants Gucci to help move along Podsednik (who's OBP is back up to like .370, which is like top 5-10 in the AL), and Iguchi is willing to sacrifice stats to help him move along. If anyone is responsible for Iguchi's lack of stats IMO, it's Ozzie and the way he's using him.

I sure as hell like to see him in that lineup instead of Harris, nothing against Wille. I think if you move Iguchi to 5 or 6, or if Podsednik suddenly starts to suck :rolleyes: you will see Iguchi's stats improve.

Also, his defense is outstanding which certainly is a nice bonus.

ilsox7
07-16-2005, 04:50 PM
The only reason I think he's been a bit of a disappointment is that I was SOOO happy to see him come in the offseason based on his good OBP and power stats, and I figured he would get us about 20 hrs or so and make up for the "great power outage" that we supposedly were going to have.

But how many 2 hitters are power threats? Ozzie apparently wants Gucci to help move along Podsednik (who's OBP is back up to like .370, which is like top 5-10 in the AL), and Iguchi is willing to sacrifice stats to help him move along. If anyone is responsible for Iguchi's lack of stats IMO, it's Ozzie and the way he's using him.

I sure as hell like to see him in that lineup instead of Harris, nothing against Wille. I think if you move Iguchi to 5 or 6, or if Podsednik suddenly starts to suck :rolleyes: you will see Iguchi's stats improve.

Also, his defense is outstanding which certainly is a nice bonus.

I think Tad could go .300/20/80 if he was in this for himself. That's the beauty of this team...they play to win. And it's also why statheads cannot figure this team out. This team makes a ton of "good" outs that hurt stats but are part of getting runs in.

doublem23
07-16-2005, 04:53 PM
:?:

Duh! Shingo Takatsu is the only person in the Chicago metro area that can speak fluent Japanese. :rolleyes:

If there's own downside to Tadahito it's that he has to take a number of games off, but I'm not so sure if that's just Ozzie tinkering with the lineup incessantly or if he's really wearing down from the longer season. Probably a combination of both.

ChiSoxlukes
07-16-2005, 06:11 PM
Tad has actually said that he would rather not get so many days off so he can stay in a routine. But I do think that having day off will help in the long run.