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View Full Version : Would you do this for a World Series now?


1917
07-13-2005, 01:07 PM
In 1997 the Flordia Marlins bought a one year team, got all the essential peices and won the World Series in there 4th or 5th year of being a franchise....then the next year they sold them all away for draft picks and prospects....they sucked from 1998-2002...then in 2003 there planned paid off and they won yet another World Series....I ask this of you Sox Fans, Would you give it all up now for a shot at the WS and risk suffering thru crap again for 6 years waiting for the talent to come back? I would!! A WS victory would keep me happy for the rest of my life...I'll be honest, if we win the WS this year, I'll always be a Sox fan, but I'll come into next season thinking "Well...now what? I got nothing to yipe about" I know no WS series is a guarnetee and just because it happened to Flordia doesn't mean it will happen for us....but the fact is they went for it, got it, sold it, suffered, then got it again....Go for it Kenny! There is always going to be baseball played, there will be more B-Mac and Andersons coming up....like my call sign says 1917!!!!! I want to change that to 2005!!

ilsox7
07-13-2005, 01:12 PM
In 1997 the Flordia Marlins bought a one year team, got all the essential peices and won the World Series in there 4th or 5th year of being a franchise....then the next year they sold them all away for draft picks and prospects....they sucked from 1998-2002...then in 2003 there planned paid off and they won yet another World Series....I ask this of you Sox Fans, Would you give it all up now for a shot at the WS and risk suffering thru crap again for 6 years waiting for the talent to come back? I would!! A WS victory would keep me happy for the rest of my life...I'll be honest, if we win the WS this year, I'll always be a Sox fan, but I'll come into next season thinking "Well...now what? I got nothing to yipe about" I know no WS series is a guarnetee and just because it happened to Flordia doesn't mean it will happen for us....but the fact is they went for it, got it, sold it, suffered, then got it again....Go for it Kenny! There is always going to be baseball played, there will be more B-Mac and Andersons coming up....like my call sign says 1917!!!!! I want to change that to 2005!!

This question is irrelevant given the current contracts our team is signed to. Most of the important pieces of this year's team are locked up thru at least next year.

Ol' No. 2
07-13-2005, 01:31 PM
In 1997 the Flordia Marlins bought a one year team, got all the essential peices and won the World Series in there 4th or 5th year of being a franchise....then the next year they sold them all away for draft picks and prospects....they sucked from 1998-2002...then in 2003 there planned paid off and they won yet another World Series....I ask this of you Sox Fans, Would you give it all up now for a shot at the WS and risk suffering thru crap again for 6 years waiting for the talent to come back? I would!! A WS victory would keep me happy for the rest of my life...I'll be honest, if we win the WS this year, I'll always be a Sox fan, but I'll come into next season thinking "Well...now what? I got nothing to yipe about" I know no WS series is a guarnetee and just because it happened to Flordia doesn't mean it will happen for us....but the fact is they went for it, got it, sold it, suffered, then got it again....Go for it Kenny! There is always going to be baseball played, there will be more B-Mac and Andersons coming up....like my call sign says 1917!!!!! I want to change that to 2005!!The flaw in that thinking is that you can't possibly assemble a group of players who would guarantee a WS winner. Playoff baseball always is partly a crapshoot. At best you can slightly improve your odds. So the real question is, would you be willing to suffer "thru crap again for 6 years waiting for the talent to come back?" for a slightly improved chance of winning the WS?

Put me down for a no. This is not to say they shouldn't make a deal. But they can't be foolish about it.

Unregistered
07-13-2005, 01:34 PM
The flaw in that thinking is that you can't possibly assemble a group of players who would guarantee a WS winner. Playoff baseball always is partly a crapshoot. At best you can slightly improve your odds.Just ask the Yankees.

1917
07-13-2005, 01:36 PM
The flaw in that thinking is that you can't possibly assemble a group of players who would guarantee a WS winner. Playoff baseball always is partly a crapshoot. At best you can slightly improve your odds. So the real question is, would you be willing to suffer "thru crap again for 6 years waiting for the talent to come back?" for a slightly improved chance of winning the WS?

Put me down for a no. This is not to say they shouldn't make a deal. But they can't be foolish about it.

I hear ya...and like I said you can't guarentee anything, but the went for it, knowing they may have to suffer the upcoming years to get it, but the gamble paid off for them...twice...the risk is worth the possible reward in my eyes

mantis1212
07-13-2005, 01:39 PM
This question is irrelevant given the current contracts our team is signed to. Most of the important pieces of this year's team are locked up thru at least next year.

Have you ever heard of trading players away?

My answer is YES, I would most definitely trade the next 6 years for one championship this year.

ilsox7
07-13-2005, 01:45 PM
Have you ever heard of trading players away?

My answer is YES, I would most definitely trade the next 6 years for one championship this year.

The question asked is if we would throw away 6 years for 1 championship...I surely would. EXCEPT when you have MB, FG, and JG locked up for the next year or two...plus Pods, AJ, Tad and Uribe...there is really no option of throwing away 6 years for a championship this year.

The actual option is tweaking the team this year to give us a better chance and also being pretty damn good next year. So yes, I have heard of trading away players. But I have not heard of trading away what may possibly be the best 1-2-3 starting pitching punch in the majors for the next 2+ years.

Dan H
07-13-2005, 05:18 PM
Usually I would say just for everything now. But for some reason, I would take my chances with this team and be good for the next few years. Besides, the Sox may be able to improve themselves without throwing away the future. They already have the best record in the majors. Wouldn't it be great to do that over and over again?

SoxFanSince67
07-13-2005, 08:54 PM
There are so many variables that can effect next year and the next and the season to follow. I'd sell my soul to the devil to win it all this year and let the chips fall for the years to come.

wsbaseball9
07-13-2005, 09:12 PM
no, why is it so out of reach for a team like us to consistenly be good?
we have the managing...i'll tell ya why. Baseball needs a salary cap no 200 million dollar teams that can barley stay at .500

i guess i'll ask a question of quality or quantity
would you rather have the sox consistenly make the playoffs for 12 years and win the world series once in those 12 years or win the world series twice in 12 years and suck in between?

maybe thats a little lopsided idk

i vote for producing quality teams over and over

Brian26
07-13-2005, 10:49 PM
Usually I would say just for everything now. But for some reason, I would take my chances with this team and be good for the next few years.

I'm actually on the other side of the fence on this one. I think baseball is the most difficult sport to build a perennial dynasty. The Yankees are the exception to the rule. How often does a team repeat? The 2001 D-Backs? The 2001 Mariners? The 2002 Angels? The '03 Marlins? The '83, '94, '00 Sox? No matter how good things look on paper, you don't know what's going to happen on the field when the game is played. Add to this the fact that Cleveland and Detroit are only going to get better. We should bust our asses in every way possible to make it happen this year. This is the golden opportunity we have waited for...maybe our best shot since 1983, so now we have to cease it.

fquaye149
07-13-2005, 11:21 PM
I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say:

If we could win a world series, I don't care if that means we are lousy for the next FIFTEEN years. TWENTY even.

A world series is something this town hasn't seen in 88 years. We'll take what we can get, never mind the future.

But of course, NOTHING guarantees a world series...except for...well let's not talk about 1919

rowand33
07-14-2005, 12:15 AM
I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say:

If we could win a world series, I don't care if that means we are lousy for the next FIFTEEN years. TWENTY even.

A world series is something this town hasn't seen in 88 years. We'll take what we can get, never mind the future.

But of course, NOTHING guarantees a world series...except for...well let's not talk about 1919


agree 100%.

One world series is worth a lifetime. Who cares if we're worst in the league next year if we win this year?

I remember reading articles about the Red Sox where one man's last words to his son were "Did they sign Schilling?"

I do not want to be that guy

TornLabrum
07-14-2005, 07:32 AM
I am so sick of the loser mentality in Chicago that says, "I'd settle for 20 years in last place for a pennant winner now. Why the **** do so many of us think we have to settle for anything? The Michael Jordan Bulls should be the model, not the 1985 Bears.

We've gone 88 years without a World Championship. We're not due ONE. We're due a DYNASTY to make up for entire lifetimes that were lived without a single championship.

Be grateful I'm not a mod here. If I were this entire thread would be ****housed and closed.

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2005, 08:40 AM
I am so sick of the loser mentality in Chicago that says, "I'd settle for 20 years in last place for a pennant winner now. Why the **** do so many of us think we have to settle for anything? The Michael Jordan Bulls should be the model, not the 1985 Bears.

We've gone 88 years without a World Championship. We're not due ONE. We're due a DYNASTY to make up for entire lifetimes that were lived without a single championship.

Be grateful I'm not a mod here. If I were this entire thread would be ****housed and closed.

I agree, Hal!

In any case, in response to the original question about the 1997 Marlins, IIRC the Marlins' owners wanted to cash in their chips and reap maximum profits by selling the team almost immediately after winning the 97 Series.

Their 2003 World Series win wasn't necessarily the product of design from the 1997 run, since it was a new ownership group and management team that turned the lemons, minor league talent infusion and draft choices they had been handed into a winner in 2003. While it's probably true that all those minor leaguers and draft choices they got in return after 1997 eventually formed the core of the 2003 champs, I don't think re-stocking for another run in six years was the primary intent of the post-1997 purge.

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2005, 08:45 AM
As for the Sox, I want them to make a determined effort to win it all this year, and then use the resultant jump in profits to lock up for the long term the core of starting pitchers (MB, FG and JG) that made it happen.

In reality, many of the Sox position players are not irreplacable. Konerko? Slugging 1Bs are common. Everett? Dime a dozen. Rowand? Good but could be replaced by Anderson. Dye could be replaced by 2007 or 2008 by a current Sox prospect or another free agent. Even AJ isn't necessarily irreplacable. Look at the Braves. They've gone through a ton of position players during their run. (Since Hal used them as an example, even the Bulls had only two players - Pippen and Jordan - with them for the entire dynasty.)

As much as they are punching bags here, I think Uribe and Crede may be among the most important position players because they are young and can handle two of the most difficult defensive positions on the field (made more important by the fact that MB and JG are ground ball pitchers). Same goes for Iguchi even though he's not quite so young. Pods also is extremely valuable to the Sox because he's so dangerous as a leadoff hitter. Frank's valuable for his bat, but most likely he will retire long before 2010.

Based on what I've read from the scouting reports in "Minor Observations," the keys to the Sox long-term future on the offensive side might be Valido at short, Getz at second, Sweeney at first and Anderson in center. As long as the Sox continue to have a core of great starting pitching, with Ozzie's style of "smart ball," the Sox should be able to plug in team-oriented position players and middle relievers that they draft and develop, while using free agency and a few smart trades to plug the remaining holes on the field, in the lineup and at the back end of the rotation.

My point is that while the Sox shouldn't throw away the future just for 2005, they shouldn't throw away a chance to win it all in 2005 just to protect the future, either. Be wise and judicious, Kenny....

Ol' No. 2
07-14-2005, 09:02 AM
I am so sick of the loser mentality in Chicago that says, "I'd settle for 20 years in last place for a pennant winner now. Why the **** do so many of us think we have to settle for anything? The Michael Jordan Bulls should be the model, not the 1985 Bears.

We've gone 88 years without a World Championship. We're not due ONE. We're due a DYNASTY to make up for entire lifetimes that were lived without a single championship.

Be grateful I'm not a mod here. If I were this entire thread would be ****housed and closed.Thank you for being the voice of sanity. The whole premise of this thread is faulty. You can't possibly build a team that's guaranteed to win a WS. You can't even build one that gives you better than 50-50. Playoff baseball is too uncertain. You have to build for the long term and try to be there year after year.

fquaye149
07-14-2005, 10:56 AM
I am so sick of the loser mentality in Chicago that says, "I'd settle for 20 years in last place for a pennant winner now. Why the **** do so many of us think we have to settle for anything? The Michael Jordan Bulls should be the model, not the 1985 Bears.

We've gone 88 years without a World Championship. We're not due ONE. We're due a DYNASTY to make up for entire lifetimes that were lived without a single championship.

Be grateful I'm not a mod here. If I were this entire thread would be ****housed and closed.

Ok, I'd love to see a dynasty, and I'd hate to see 20 years of futility. Also, I think we have a decent framework FOR a dynasty...all I was saying is I'd rather be a Marlins fan than a Cub fan.

I'd rather to be able to say "next year might suck...but at least we won this year" than say "wait till next year" for the rest of my life.

GAsoxfan
07-14-2005, 12:46 PM
i guess i'll ask a question of quality or quantity
would you rather have the sox consistenly make the playoffs for 12 years and win the world series once in those 12 years or win the world series twice in 12 years and suck in between?

I'd take the Marlins over the Braves. You play to win World Series titles, not division titles.

1917
07-14-2005, 01:08 PM
OK I orginated this...I guess I came off wrong...Basically I used the Marlins as a tool and I think my thinking came off of the possibilty that we may get Burnett and he may just be loner for the year, and he will cost us...There have been some good responses, like the 85 Bears, the one year tease...but God how Chicago loves the 85 Bears...everyone in the US loves the 85 Bears....I just should have said if the Sox won the World Series this year at the risk of giving away the next 5 years in prospects, it would be worth it to me...

Ol' No. 2
07-14-2005, 01:29 PM
OK I orginated this...I guess I came off wrong...Basically I used the Marlins as a tool and I think my thinking came off of the possibilty that we may get Burnett and he may just be loner for the year, and he will cost us...There have been some good responses, like the 85 Bears, the one year tease...but God how Chicago loves the 85 Bears...everyone in the US loves the 85 Bears....I just should have said if the Sox won the World Series this year at the risk of giving away the next 5 years in prospects, it would be worth it to me...But it's a false premise. Should I sell my house and buy hundreds of thousands of dollars in lotto tickets? If I won it would be worth it. That doesn't make it a good idea.

fquaye149
07-14-2005, 01:44 PM
But it's a false premise. Should I sell my house and buy hundreds of thousands of dollars in lotto tickets? If I won it would be worth it. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Not quite the analogy. How about: If you thought you were the best poker player in the world, would you sell your house to raise money for the stakes for a poker tournament.

Because it's not like Kenny's going to take a blind bet where he is poking his fingers at a randomly selected player. He's going to make an informed decision.

Like the Marlins in nine seven it could pay off. Or it couldn't. I don't know if I'd do it...but if the only other option were futility I probably would take a stab.

Of course futility is not the only other option. We could succeed this year or in years to come without rolling the dice. I don't know. It's a tough proposition.

mr_genius
07-14-2005, 02:13 PM
The flaw in that thinking is that you can't possibly assemble a group of players who would guarantee a WS winner. Playoff baseball always is partly a crapshoot. At best you can slightly improve your odds. So the real question is, would you be willing to suffer "thru crap again for 6 years waiting for the talent to come back?" for a slightly improved chance of winning the WS?

Put me down for a no. This is not to say they shouldn't make a deal. But they can't be foolish about it.

ding ding

exactly