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LVSoxFan
07-12-2005, 11:01 AM
Today in the Sun-Times they had the usual excerpts from Stoney's radio show and while 80% of it was Cubs talk, they had his comments on what the Sox should do now that we're at the ASB and everybody's making their trades.

His comment, to paraphrase: we're this/close. Get another starting pitcher.

No doubt he's referring to the wobbly Cuban hole in the lineup.

I've been saying this for a month now. I wonder what KW will do; I think he's gonna do something just for that reason--we're so close this year. I believe also Stoney thought it was our prospects that would give us trading currency (hey but if anybody wants Willie Harris, go for it!).

This oughta be interesting.

mike squires
07-12-2005, 11:07 AM
If history repeats itself there is no doubt Kenny will makee a deal. HE is so aggressivee and never afraid to pull the trigger. WHO is the question...

dickallen15
07-12-2005, 11:48 AM
Stoney was sitting right across the aisle from me when El Duque was getting lit up by Arizona last month. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't impressed with him.

Ron Karkovice
07-12-2005, 12:43 PM
As far as pitching is concerned, I want Kenny to get another Kenny.

Soxzilla
07-12-2005, 12:44 PM
El Duque was awesome before he went on the DL. Afterwards he just couldn't get anyone out. No doubt he rushed his recovery to be back with the team.

I wouldn't mind grabbing another starter to put in the fourth hole, in order to move contreras to the fifth hole and el duque to long relief in the pen.

Orlando's true value will be utilized as a starting pitcher in the post-season, so let's keep him healthy for that.

LVSoxFan
07-12-2005, 12:49 PM
Agreed. I'm going to be straight up and say the guy I think is a liability is Contreras. I think he's mentally weak.

MIgrenade
07-12-2005, 01:31 PM
As far as pitching is concerned, I want Kenny to get another Kenny.

Why? Because it was mentioned to day in the Tribune? Let the Rogers' threads begin.

Ron Karkovice
07-12-2005, 04:35 PM
Why? Because it was mentioned to day in the Tribune? Let the Rogers' threads begin.

Of course that is why I said it.

soxfan123
07-12-2005, 06:16 PM
Remember last year when Kenny made the move for Carl Everrett and everyone wondered what he was doing? Kenny reponded by saying that because we haven't had a world series champonship in almost 90 years that we will do whatever we can to finish the job. Our team last year realistically didn't have a shot at the title because of our inability to score runs and inconsistent pitching, but that certainly didn't stop dear ol' KW. When you mix a legit contender that is probably the best since 1983 and Kenny that is in charge of it all along with a manager like Ozzie, I will guarantee you that he will do everything in his power to solidify our competitiveness in the postseason. Kenny wants to win; he is not here to "prepare" or go to the passive. I agree with him too.

I realize that this is an obvious statement, but this is just a reminder to everyone how desirous Kenny is of ultimate success.

kojak
07-13-2005, 02:09 AM
I think KW is being EXTREMELY cautious as he considers who he will add for The Big Push. I personally think the talent piece is secondary. Of Coors, the guy has to be talented, don't get me wrong, but KW realizes that Team Chemistry is the Top Priority; the newbie has to mesh well with our current players- even if the added talent is only a slight upgrade rather than a showstopper.

That is just my $.02

IowaSox1971
07-13-2005, 02:23 AM
I wouldn't mind getting someone like Jamie Moyer just in case El Duque goes down again or Contreras struggles. Moyer has a lot of postseason experience and he also has a winning record this season while pitching for a below-average Seattle team. Because of Moyer's age, he might be available for a more reasonable price than it might take to get someone like Schmidt.

Stretch
07-13-2005, 02:40 AM
My wishlist: (one or two of the following

1. Ted Lily (cheap yet good 4th/5th starter)
2. Jason Schmidt (expensive but it'll be hard to beat Buehrle Schmidt Garcia and Garland in a short series)
3. Eddie Guardado (can close, is a lefty, and worked well with AJ in Minn)
4. Shigitoshi Hasegawa ( solid middle reliever, an upgrade over Shingo and Viz)
5. Edgardo Alfonzo (Better glove and better bat than Crede)
6. Joe Randa (I hate this man but I also hated Peirzynski...)

Chisox003
07-13-2005, 02:46 AM
[QUOTE=Stretch]My wishlist: (one or two of the following

2. Jason Schmidt (expensive but it'll be hard to beat Buehrle Schmidt Garcia and Garland in a short series)
3. Eddie Guardado (can close, is a lefty, and worked well with AJ in Minn)
QUOTE]

There, I fixed it for you.

The third basemen are not upgrades, at all. Period.

Ted Lilly isnt going anywhere, the Jays already said so.

As for schmidt, I'd love to see it but as of right now the Giants are askin too much, and Id add another Giant to that list...Omar Vizquel

Guardado is a possibilty, but strictly as a set up man....Hermanson is fine

Lip Man 1
07-13-2005, 02:47 AM
I understand the comments about 'chemistry,' but seriously who WOULD go to a team that has a very very high shot for the post season, maybe dare I say it, the World Series, and be a pain in the rear end?

Also wasn't it Dustin Hermanson who said something along the lines of 'we wouldn't let a guy spoil the chemistry. We'd make him go stand in the corner."

One or two newcomers who are professionals are not going to screw with 'team chemistry.'

Pull the trigger Kenny, do the deals...get another starter and a middle infielder.

Lip

iamkoza
07-13-2005, 05:42 AM
does the team really need a solid 4th guy to hold a 9 game lead?

In the playoffs we'd only be using 3 guys, 4 if el duque has a functioning shoulder. I feel like its worth the gamble to not deal for a SP right now (Unless he's rather good and can be resigned :) )

hold2dibber
07-13-2005, 08:16 AM
Mark Redman and Rob Makowiak of Pittsburgh. Redman is a solid, durable left handed starter. Makowiak is a "grinder" who can play a bunch of different positions and can hit lefty.

veeter
07-13-2005, 09:16 AM
I like Redmon(d) and Macowiak. My gut tells me it's going to be Lilly or Moyer. Since Halliday is out for a while the Jays will slide enough to trade Lilly. I like crafty, instead of power. It seems like if a power pitcher (Schmidt) is off, he gets pounded. I think Uribe is going to half a strong second half.

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2005, 09:34 AM
Mark Redman and Rob Makowiak of Pittsburgh. Redman is a solid, durable left handed starter. Makowiak is a "grinder" who can play a bunch of different positions and can hit lefty.

I too like this proposal! Mackowiak's an Oak Lawn native and played at South Suburban College, too. Redman has AL pitching experience and a respectable 3.76 ERA.

Maybe KW can get both for Willie Harris and Joe Borcahrd?

Ol' No. 2
07-13-2005, 10:42 AM
does the team really need a solid 4th guy to hold a 9 game lead?

In the playoffs we'd only be using 3 guys, 4 if el duque has a functioning shoulder. I feel like its worth the gamble to not deal for a SP right now (Unless he's rather good and can be resigned :) )I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Bullpen help should be a much higher priority. The cost in prospects of acquiring both a solid reliever and another starter would be unacceptably high.

spiffie
07-13-2005, 10:50 AM
9 games is NOT that much when you have as many games left against your division, including with MN. Let's just put on the dark cloud hat for a moment and think if we go 3-11 against MN in our remaining games. It could happen. Hopefully it won't, but we've seen that even our big three can have a bad run from time to time. I don't think with this many games left a 9 game lead is enough to be able to say "nothing can go wrong, and we don't need to improve." And if improving means going after another bullpen arm AND a starter, so be it. Yes, we might lose someone who could possibly become something one day. Or not. But to get someone who can help us today to possibly go all the way for the first time in any of our lifetimes, I'm willing to gamble that our prospects are more likely to be Ruffcorn and Rauch than Buehrle and Garland.

DenverSock
07-13-2005, 11:02 AM
I understand the comments about 'chemistry,' but seriously who WOULD go to a team that has a very very high shot for the post season, maybe dare I say it, the World Series, and be a pain in the rear end?

Also wasn't it Dustin Hermanson who said something along the lines of 'we wouldn't let a guy spoil the chemistry. We'd make him go stand in the corner."

One or two newcomers who are professionals are not going to screw with 'team chemistry.'

Pull the trigger Kenny, do the deals...get another starter and a middle infielder.

Lip


Ever heard of A-rod and Nomar?

Tragg
07-13-2005, 11:06 AM
Ever heard of A-rod and Nomar?

But not in mid-season when things were going well. There's no time nor desire to taint and infect. Nobody's going to come here and start whining at this point.
Their mess began in the offseason through spring, etc.

Tragg
07-13-2005, 11:08 AM
I've been saying the same thing for a long time. Bullpen help should be a much higher priority. The cost in prospects of acquiring both a solid reliever and another starter would be unacceptably high.

I agree, although we may need a servicable 5th starter to come in here (needs to be cheap). Save El D and make sure he's healthy for the playoffs.

DenverSock
07-13-2005, 12:40 PM
But not in mid-season when things were going well. There's no time nor desire to taint and infect. Nobody's going to come here and start whining at this point.
Their mess began in the offseason through spring, etc.

Hope you're right.

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 12:49 PM
Whoever thinks 9-game lead at the ASB means we can coast is insane... when you look at our August schedule. Let me post it for you:

-Baltimore
-Toronto
-Seattle
-Yankees
-Boston
-Minnesota
-Yankees
-Minnesota
-Seattle
-Texas (oof!)

This season will be won/lost next month, period. Last year the Sox downward spiral began, coincidentally, in August. By September we were completely out of it.

So that means, if we're in the catbird seat now--moreso than we ever imagined--you do EVERYTHING you can to crush that point home. We don't wait until August and start trying to make trades to dig us out of whatever hole we've fallen into. If this happens right, by August we'll be so far ahead that the talk will be about who's gonna win the wildcard.

Get another starter and let's get on with it.

rwcescato
07-13-2005, 12:52 PM
Today in the Sun-Times they had the usual excerpts from Stoney's radio show and while 80% of it was Cubs talk, they had his comments on what the Sox should do now that we're at the ASB and everybody's making their trades.

His comment, to paraphrase: we're this/close. Get another starting pitcher.

No doubt he's referring to the wobbly Cuban hole in the lineup.

I've been saying this for a month now. I wonder what KW will do; I think he's gonna do something just for that reason--we're so close this year. I believe also Stoney thought it was our prospects that would give us trading currency (hey but if anybody wants Willie Harris, go for it!).

This oughta be interesting.

According to the EsPN rumor mill the Sox are in the hunt for AJ Burnett with about 6 other teams. That would be interesting.

TDog
07-13-2005, 12:56 PM
Ever heard of A-rod and Nomar?

If there really was a curse on the Red Sox, Garciapara apparently took it with him.

fquaye149
07-13-2005, 01:08 PM
Remember last year when Kenny made the move for Carl Everrett and everyone wondered what he was doing? Kenny reponded by saying that because we haven't had a world series champonship in almost 90 years that we will do whatever we can to finish the job. Our team last year realistically didn't have a shot at the title because of our inability to score runs and inconsistent pitching, but that certainly didn't stop dear ol' KW. When you mix a legit contender that is probably the best since 1983 and Kenny that is in charge of it all along with a manager like Ozzie, I will guarantee you that he will do everything in his power to solidify our competitiveness in the postseason. Kenny wants to win; he is not here to "prepare" or go to the passive. I agree with him too.

I realize that this is an obvious statement, but this is just a reminder to everyone how desirous Kenny is of ultimate success.

Actually when Kenny made the Garcia deal we were in reasonable position. All the pitching looked decent but the fifth starter - remember: Schoenweis started out the season pitching pretty well. Also we didn't know the extent of Maggs' injury - we thought he was out a month or so. Liar. And Frank hadn't gone down yet. There was no reason to EXPECT us not to make the playoffs... :gulp:

fquaye149
07-13-2005, 01:09 PM
Whoever thinks 9-game lead at the ASB means we can coast is insane... when you look at our August schedule. Let me post it for you:

-Baltimore
-Toronto
-Seattle
-Yankees
-Boston
-Minnesota
-Yankees
-Minnesota
-Seattle
-Texas (oof!)

This season will be won/lost next month, period. Last year the Sox downward spiral began, coincidentally, in August. By September we were completely out of it.

So that means, if we're in the catbird seat now--moreso than we ever imagined--you do EVERYTHING you can to crush that point home. We don't wait until August and start trying to make trades to dig us out of whatever hole we've fallen into. If this happens right, by August we'll be so far ahead that the talk will be about who's gonna win the wildcard.

Get another starter and let's get on with it.

Ok fine, but there's a difference between coasting and standing pat. That is, just because we don't look to make a huge splash in the trades doesn't mean we are coasting.

I wouldn't expect Ozzie to put up with "coasting"

That is to say, if you're the chip leader, do you draw to an inside straight? Do you get rid of two pair to draw for trips?

I'm not saying we shouldn't improve...but taking gambles just because we think we can be better than best isn't a great idea.

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 01:10 PM
Agreed. But I do think KW's gonna pull the trigger and not hesitate. I don't think it will be Clements, LOL, but I do think if Schmidt is to be had, KW's gonna be pushing to the front of that line.

Lip Man 1
07-13-2005, 01:34 PM
Nothing is guaranteed in baseball. It's a game that drives you crazy.

I remember reading about the 51 Dodgers / Giants. I remember the 64 Phillies / Cardinals, the 69 Cubs/ Mets and the 95 Angels / Mariners.

Nine games is a nice lead but there are still 75 or so games left to play. Teams get hot, teams get cold...injuries happen. Nothing is a lock. If Williams feels there are people out there who can contribute and be an upgrade from what is there now he should at least make an attempt to make a deal(s).

Lip

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 02:00 PM
As I said since April: wait until the ASB. The season starts now.

You can't win a season in the first half, but you can lose one. Let's sock it to everybody like we have been.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but being championship-free since 1917 will do that to ya!

Skippy
07-13-2005, 02:42 PM
does the team really need a solid 4th guy to hold a 9 game lead?

In the playoffs we'd only be using 3 guys, 4 if el duque has a functioning shoulder. I feel like its worth the gamble to not deal for a SP right now (Unless he's rather good and can be resigned :) )

Don't get too comfortable with the lead. The Twins are relentless.

They're like the T-1000 of the AL Central.

wdelaney72
07-13-2005, 02:44 PM
As I said since April: wait until the ASB. The season starts now.

You can't win a season in the first half, but you can lose one. Let's sock it to everybody like we have been.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but being championship-free since 1917 will do that to ya!

The bullpen might be a more pressing need, but with 4 quality starters, our need to use the bullpen would become very limited. Plus come playoffs, we could move one of the starters to come out of the pen, and I don't mean Contreras. Hernandez and Garland could work out of the pen.

Ben Lang
07-13-2005, 02:51 PM
I actually don't think Kenny needs to do anything. None of his midseason acqusitions in the past 3 or 4 years have helped the Sox pass the twins. And in 2000, before he was here, the Sox added a washed up DH Baines, and a catcher Charles Johnson who was not a factor down the stretch or in the playoffs. Team chemistry is overrated, but if its not broke don't fix it.

Steakpita
07-13-2005, 02:56 PM
Would love to get Mark Redman. He's solid... the 4-8 record probably has him wanting out of pittsburgh, too. Also, he has sort of a similar style to Garland and Buehrle... groundballers, work fast. I like it.

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 03:06 PM
I agree if it ain't broke...

But Contreras ain't exactly looking like he's not on his way to being broke...

swanson24
07-13-2005, 03:10 PM
I know that what I am about to say may be considered irrational and dumb but I want to see Kenny pull off a big move. I completely buy into the concept of win this year and do whatever you have to do as a general manager to give your team the best shot at making the playoffs and hopefully when the team gets in the playoffs you have a roster of capable major leaguers who can win in the postseason. An obvious statement sure, but it is something that needs to be said. Kenny Williams is in a tough position as are most general managers right now. OK. Every general manager wants to believe they are in the hunt for the playoffs but the reality of the situation will slowly unfold. A wise person at WSI says, "It's Kenny's team, for better or for worse." Well guess what now is the time for KW to show us as fans what he is capable of accomplishing. He should be evaluated by the win loss record and the playoffs. This is simply stated but purely pertinent.

:o: :?: :smile: :cool:

Ben Lang
07-13-2005, 03:13 PM
The Sox would go to a 4 man rotation in the playoffs leaving Contreras out. They're 9 games better than the Twins with him, he's not got going to cause them to miss the playoffs.

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 03:18 PM
Didn't we try the four man thing last season?

I'd like to amend my statement about "If it ain't broke..." I guess what I mean is, in Contreras' case, "Don't wait for it to be broke before you fix it." Get another guy and if Contreras doesn't like it he can battle for the spot. Hell, Garland sure stepped up this year. Just like Willie didn't.

Win/win.

Ben Lang
07-13-2005, 03:24 PM
Every team goes to a 4 man rotation in the playoffs... this is totally different from the Sox going to a four man last year. I do see your point as another pitcher might provide Contreras motivation to step up his game.

mccoydp
07-13-2005, 03:45 PM
This season will be won/lost next month, period. Last year the Sox downward spiral began, coincidentally, in August. By September we were completely out of it.

Technically, it really began after the All-Star Break with that 7-game losing streak, and the sweep by the Twinks. The Sox never had any more than a two or three game cushion in the standings over the Twinks all season. I had pretty much written off the season in late July/early August when the Sox fell 5 games back. That's just too much (normally) to make up in a month or so.

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 03:50 PM
Yup, the Torii Hunter game. I forgot when that was.

In 2003 our slide began at the beginning of September; last year I remember we stumbled before but in August we just tanked it. By September we were clearly out of it.

I remember going to the final home game last year--I think it was September 25th or something--and it wasn't even close to sold out.

I never want to experience that again! :angry:

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2005, 04:07 PM
Technically, it really began after the All-Star Break with that 7-game losing streak, and the sweep by the Twinks. The Sox never had any more than a two or three game cushion in the standings over the Twinks all season. I had pretty much written off the season in late July/early August when the Sox fell 5 games back. That's just too much (normally) to make up in a month or so.

Just remember that the two best Sox hitters - the #3 and #4 hitters - one of whom had a .997 OPS (Frank) - went down to injury. One really can't expect a team that relied so much on their offense to be able to contend after losing the heart of their order.

Sxy Mofo
07-13-2005, 04:13 PM
I agree if it ain't broke...

But Contreras ain't exactly looking like he's not on his way to being broke...

Wait, say that one without all the double and triple negatives.

mccoydp
07-13-2005, 04:48 PM
Just remember that the two best Sox hitters - the #3 and #4 hitters - one of whom had a .997 OPS (Frank) - went down to injury. One really can't expect a team that relied so much on their offense to be able to contend after losing the heart of their order.

We're in agreement...exactly...the way the team was structured just couldn't withstand the loss of both of them. I said "uh-oh" when Magglio was gone, and a double "uh-oh" when Frank stayed out for good.

LVSoxFan
07-13-2005, 04:53 PM
Wait, say that one without all the double and triple negatives.

Fine.

Of all the pitchers, Mr. Contreras clearly demonstrates inefficiencies in both his control and his mental approach that, while they've been held somewhat in check thus far, suggest a troubling possibility of him becoming a liability during the strech of the season where we can least afford it. Would it not be the prudent thing to take a pre-emptive approach to this issue by obtaining another starter, rather than waiting until it's too late?

And ain't that the fact, Jack?

Sxy Mofo
07-13-2005, 05:19 PM
Fine.

Of all the pitchers, Mr. Contreras clearly demonstrates inefficiencies in both his control and his mental approach that, while they've been held somewhat in check thus far, suggest a troubling possibility of him becoming a liability during the strech of the season where we can least afford it. Would it not be the prudent thing to take a pre-emptive approach to this issue by obtaining another starter, rather than waiting until it's too late?

And ain't that the fact, Jack?


That's so much better. *smooches*

DenverSock
07-15-2005, 02:30 AM
If there really was a curse on the Red Sox, Garciapara apparently took it with him.
Which would make the cubs twice cursed!