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Madvora
07-12-2005, 10:53 AM
Phil Rodgers wrote an opinion piece in yesterday's Tribune about how he thinks the Sox should get Kenny Rodgers because Texas would probably be looking to get rid of him.
Well, Carmen and Silvy on ESPN1000 are taking calls on this subject right now and people are calling in all excited and saying "Get Him" or "Don't Get Him."

Keep this in mind, how this started, when you see these "Kenny Rodgers to the White Sox" rumors run out of control for the next two weeks.

Here's the article.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050711rogers,1,1246603.column?coll=cs-whitesox-utility

Madvora
07-12-2005, 10:54 AM
I forgot to add something. This is exactly how the Eric Chavez rumors started and I noticed the same thing from the start.

Hangar18
07-12-2005, 10:56 AM
All Phil Rogers said in the opening paragraph was how he would fit well
on the White Sox and how the Rangers would probably deal him by the 7/31
deadline. That was all. The article was basically about him and his effect
on the Texas Rangers. This article PALES in comparison to the one
Mike Downey wrote today .......TERRIBLE

munchman33
07-12-2005, 11:09 AM
More pitching? I wouldn't mind it. I don't care what kind of baggage he brings.

Ol' No. 2
07-12-2005, 11:15 AM
So we need to replace Hernandez because of his age...with Kenny Rogers?:?:

gobears1987
07-12-2005, 11:16 AM
More pitching? I wouldn't mind it. I don't care what kind of baggage he brings.
Maybe we can trade for him just so he can beat the **** out of Moronotti, North, and Levine.

irish rover
07-12-2005, 11:18 AM
can he be delt considering he is suspended? and if the sox do get him he maybe out at least 5-6 games depending on the appeal

Jjav829
07-12-2005, 11:27 AM
I forgot to add something. This is exactly how the Eric Chavez rumors started and I noticed the same thing from the start.

FWIW, the Chavez rumors were actually confirmed with the having Sox made an offer for him but being turned down.

Madvora
07-12-2005, 11:49 AM
FWIW, the Chavez rumors were actually confirmed with the having Sox made an offer for him but being turned down.
Really? I never heard that. Wow!
What was the offer?

Ol' No. 2
07-12-2005, 11:52 AM
Really? I never heard that. Wow!
What was the offer?I'm not sure there was ever a real offer, but Kenny talked about the possibility a few weeks ago in a way that made it clear that he had at least explored the possibility.

1917
07-12-2005, 11:58 AM
Rangers are still in the hunt for a Wild Card and possibly the AL West...with that line up, they are goingto be buyers, not sellers....there #1 pitcher isn't going anywhere

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2005, 12:44 PM
Yeah, I know it's deeppink speculation and all that, but if Rogers is considered to be among all the pitchers said to be available, I would love for the Sox to get him. I'm not defending his actions. I think they were deplorable and he ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

However, once he serves his suspension, and assuming he only gets a fine and community service for his actions (which likely will be a low-grade
misdemeanor), he's still going to be a very good pitcher. Look at that sterling 2.54 ERA and remember that he makes about half his starts in the launching pad of a home stadium that is Ameriquest Field.

The Sox have had their share of "troublemakers" like Albert Belle. And Rogers' history of bad behavior is small in comparison to that of Belle's reputation when he was with Cleveland.

The Sox starting rotation would be strengthened markedly if Rogers were added to it. Think about it. He's another left-hander who gets by on guile and smarts more than blazing velocity. He doesn't walk many guys (unlike Contreras). In 113.1 innings pitched in 2005, he's given up 107 hits, 34 runs (32 earned), 7 homers, 34 walks, 50 strikeouts, 173 ground balls and 128 fly balls. He's also won multiple Gold Gloves and he's known as a great teammate.

As a pitcher, he's perfect for the Sox.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2005, 12:46 PM
Rangers are still in the hunt for a Wild Card and possibly the AL West...with that line up, they are goingto be buyers, not sellers....there #1 pitcher isn't going anywhere

If he ends up missing four starts, look for the Rangers to be well out of the Wild Card hunt by the end of July. If so, because he's only signed through the end of the year and because he's pissed at the Rangers' ownership/managment and therefore unlikely to re-sign with them for 2006, look for the Rangers to try to get something for him by trading him.

Lip Man 1
07-12-2005, 12:49 PM
No.2:

Well at least Rogers hasn't been on the DL twice already this season has he?

Orlando when he has been able to pitch, has been good, the question is HOW much will he be able to pitch in the second half / October?

I wouldn't take the chance of having to go with Contreras / McCarthy down the stretch because The Duke is hurt again. August is coming and those 17 days could be a bitch.

Lip

ATXBMX
07-12-2005, 12:56 PM
Rogers is never as good in the second half.

He's a headcase.

He's really old.

He's a Boras client.

No thanks

Lip Man 1
07-12-2005, 01:00 PM
ATX:

And you know exactly how old Hernandez and Contreras are? (By the way Crede is a Boras client...should the Sox just cut him now for you?)

It doesn't have to be Rogers, there could be some decent pitchers out there soon. Make the move Kenny.

Lip

Saracen
07-12-2005, 01:03 PM
Rogers is always bad in the 2nd half because his arm gets tired (due to age?). After resting his arm this year for 20 days during the suspension, it will be like new. No worries there. The suspension will improve his stats.

And yes, he's a Boras client, but he's only needed for 3 months - no need to re-sign him for next year.

I say go for it. (and I said go for it 2 years ago when people on this board were slamming KW for looking into Rogers). From the local talkshows here in Dallas, it sounds like the consensus is Kenny will be traded by the deadline (for what it's worth).

ATXBMX
07-12-2005, 01:10 PM
ATX:

And you know exactly how old Hernandez and Contreras are? (By the way Crede is a Boras client...should the Sox just cut him now for you?)

It doesn't have to be Rogers, there could be some decent pitchers out there soon. Make the move Kenny.

Lip

Why replace old guys with another old guy!?!? We can do better than this.

The fact that Crede is Boras client means that he won't be here for very long. As soon as he becomes eligible for free-agency, Kenny will let him walk. There is no way that KW or JR will let Boras take advantage of them, especially over Crede.

Ol' No. 2
07-12-2005, 01:25 PM
No.2:

Well at least Rogers hasn't been on the DL twice already this season has he?

Orlando when he has been able to pitch, has been good, the question is HOW much will he be able to pitch in the second half / October?

I wouldn't take the chance of having to go with Contreras / McCarthy down the stretch because The Duke is hurt again. August is coming and those 17 days could be a bitch.

LipI'm not worried about having Hernandez for the stretch. The Sox should be able to nail it down even if he does have to be skipped a few times from now to the end of the season. They just need to keep him healthy for the playoffs. Up till now he's started 11 games and pitched 62 innings. That's a reasonable target for the second half. If it means they skip him a few times and/or McCarthy starts 2 or 3 times, I don't think that's going to be fatal.

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Why replace old guys with another old guy!?!? We can do better than this.

The fact that Crede is Boras client means that he won't be here for very long. As soon as he becomes eligible for free-agency, Kenny will let him walk. There is no way that KW or JR will let Boras take advantage of them, especially over Crede.

Age itself per se doesn't matter. It's just that most baseball players tend to fall apart after turning 40. Many fall apart before 40. Rogers, like Jaime Moyer, is a noteworthy exception.

Rogers may keel over next month. Who knows? He's two years younger than Roger Clemens, and Clemens is on pace to win another Cy Young award. (FWIW, Nolan Ryan pitched into his mid-40s, and he was a power pitcher.) With his mechanics, delivery and clean bill of health, Rogers could pitch effectively until he's 45.

If I could "have" any pitcher to add to the Sox for the balance of the 2005 season, it would be Clemens. But with Houston's surge, he's not going anywhere.

IMHO, among pitcher who could be made availalbe in trade, Rogers is about the next best thing. He shouldn't cost much in terms of prospects and therefore has the highest possible reward with the lowest possible short-term and long-term risk (compared to Schmidt and Burnett, who come from the NL with recent histories of injuries).

He's left-handed, a ground-ball pitcher, and has a sterling ERA. If the Rangers make him available, I want him on the Sox.

So what if he leaves after 2005? The Sox will have won it all!

maurice
07-12-2005, 01:54 PM
I don't think KW has any interest in Rogers for 2 reasons: (1) recent events have proven that Rogers is a POS and KW repeatedly has stated that he will not make a move that threatens team chemistry; and (2) Rogers openly trashed KW in the media for allegedly low-balling him with a free agent offer at a time when there were no other interested teams.

JB98
07-12-2005, 02:08 PM
I don't think KW has any interest in Rogers for 2 reasons: (1) recent events have proven that Rogers is a POS and KW repeatedly has stated that he will not make a move that threatens team chemistry; and (2) Rogers openly trashed KW in the media for allegedly low-balling him with a free agent offer at a time when there were no other interested teams.

I agree. There's no reason to believe anything that Phil Rogers writes. Sometimes I wonder if Rogers and Sam Smith sit next to each other in the Tribune newsroom. In the case of both those two, whenever they lack a legitimate column idea, they start playing GM and making up BS trade rumors.

SOXSINCE'70
07-12-2005, 02:22 PM
He (Rogers) has postseason ERA's of 7 and 9 in the ALCS,NLCS and WS.
And,as mentioned earlier,he's a Bore-ass client.
NO THANK YOU!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2005, 02:37 PM
I don't think KW has any interest in Rogers for 2 reasons: (1) recent events have proven that Rogers is a POS and KW repeatedly has stated that he will not make a move that threatens team chemistry; and (2) Rogers openly trashed KW in the media for allegedly low-balling him with a free agent offer at a time when there were no other interested teams.

Can't argue with reason #1, but the episode cited in reason #2 led Rogers to sign with the Twins for a lot less than he believed he was worth after he had rejected a much higher initial offer from the Rangers. He may have openly trashed KW, but he certainly felt angry because of the situation, not only because KW made what Rogers believed was a "low ball" offer.

I personally think KW is reasonable enough to put any hard personal grudges aside if he's satisfied a player can both help the team and won't kill the chemistry. Remember, Rogers has a firm reputation in Texas of being a decent clubhouse guy and teammate, even if he isn't so great with management or the media.

maurice
07-12-2005, 02:44 PM
He may have openly trashed KW, but he certainly felt angry because of the situation, not only because KW made what Rogers believed was a "low ball" offer.

I don't believe that KW will minimize this factor because Rogers "felt angry because of the situation." IMHO, it's more likely that KW will see this as another example of bad character, if not an overt attempt to burn bridges. Besides, there are other fish in the sea (Burnett, Schmidt, etc.).

Remember, Rogers has a firm reputation in Texas of being a decent clubhouse guy and teammate, even if he isn't so great with management or the media.

Well, you certainly have more info in this regard than I do, but at least one rumor claimed that his media/management issues caused him to overemphasize the extent of an injury and sit out at least one start. Plus, his "media issue" caused him to get suspended for 20 games. Neither of these things help his team.

Meninho
07-12-2005, 03:46 PM
I think rogers would be great but the rangers aren't selling. What about JT Snow as a left-handed bat? He's old, but rather productive...



This is not Sox related, sorry. Perdurabo, is that a crowley reference? That's my AIM screen name...


And now, the larch...http://www.monty-pythons.com/album/Episode_03/01-the-larch.jpg

mr_genius
07-12-2005, 03:50 PM
Maybe we can trade for him just so he can beat the **** out of Moronotti, North, and Levine.

HAHAHA, YA!

post of the week

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2005, 04:10 PM
Well, you certainly have more info in this regard than I do, but at least one rumor claimed that his media/management issues caused him to overemphasize the extent of an injury and sit out at least one start. Plus, his "media issue" caused him to get suspended for 20 games. Neither of these things help his team.

Maurice, you are one of my favorite posters because you stick to the facts and have lots of facts to share!

Anyway, I think the hand injury on his non-throwing hand happens to fit into a tin-foil hat conspiracy thing. I'm no Rangers insider, but I do think it's ludicrous for some in the DFW media to suggest Rogers wanted to skip starts against Anaheim and Boston just to protect his ERA for the pending free agency period, and used the minor injury as an excuse.

Based on comments that other players have made, and that reasonable (non-Mariotti/Bayless-like) Rangers' beat writers have made, I think there are serious problems brewing in the Rangers' locker room that transcend yet underscore and partially explain the problems Rogers personally has with John Hart or Tom Hicks or the media.

Based on what I've heard and read, I think the Rangers' players are revolting against Buck Showalter's micromanagement and heavy-handedness. For example, most of the players are pissed that Showalter released Ryan Drese. Drese put up an impressive 2004 campaign and was the 2005 opening day starter. But Drese is a lot like Jon Garland in that he relies on ground ball outs. Ground ball pitchers sometimes go through phases where opposing teams hit lots of balls to places where his teammates on defense are not. Since Drese was not one of Buck's favorites from the beginning of his tenure with the Rangers, Buck used Drese's bad start as an excuse to release him. Not suprisingly, Drese has improved markedly with the Nationals.

Set in that context of the team's extreme frustration with management and ownership, it's easy to see how Rogers' initial problems with the media (which are not unlike Frank Thomas' issues with the media in the past) rapidly could get out of hand.

My point is that the reasonable baseball beat writers in the DFW area believe Rogers simply wants to get traded to another team. I'd rather it be the Sox than the Twins, because I think he can really help a team on the field. I'd much rather have him instead of Contreras pitching every fifth day.

Look at it this way: with the great clubhouse chemistry the Sox have, isn't it at least as likely (if not more likely) that the Sox players would have a bigger positive impact on Rogers than any negative influence he could have on them?

Frater Perdurabo
07-12-2005, 04:21 PM
This is not Sox related, sorry. Perdurabo, is that a crowley reference? That's my AIM screen name...

Yeah, it's an indirect Crowley reference even though I'm not much of a Crowley fan. I like the name because it goes with my sig (yes, a Crowley production) which reflects online communities in general. However, I also like the name because of what it could mean. "Frater," of course, is a form of "Brother." "Perdurabo" generally would mean "Durable" or "Enduring" in Latin/Romance languages. For example, "Perdurar" in Spanish translates to the English verb "to outlast."

maurice
07-12-2005, 04:39 PM
I'm not saying that KW shouldn't trade for Rogers. I'm predicting that KW won't want to trade for Rogers.
JMHO.

ATXBMX
07-12-2005, 07:56 PM
I doubt it will happen for reasons I stated earlier, but he is better than Contreras. He is cheap ($3,500,000), and I would much rather he end up here, than in minnesota or cleveland. Just don't expect that sub 3.00 ERA to last through the second half.

jdm2662
07-12-2005, 09:28 PM
Rogers always seemed to lack people skills, per say, but I love to watch the guy pitch. I'd love to have him here just for his pitching, but I don't think he's going to continue to pitch as well. He won 13 games before the all-star break last season, and didn't exactly pitch lights out after it.
________
Portable vaporizer reviews (http://vaporizers.net/portable-vaporizers)

Lip Man 1
07-12-2005, 10:05 PM
For what it's worth:

The Sox offered Rogers one million AFTER Danny Wright got hurt and they had no one for the back end of the rotation. It was in mid march 2003 if I remember correctly.

Minnesota offered two million and Williams declined to 'up' his offer. Rogers had a fine year for a team in the Sox division and pitched the clinching game as a matter of fact.

In hindsight that unwillingness to spend one million more may have cost the Sox the division, since I think, Rogers won 14 games while the Sox 5th starters were a disaster.

There's an old saying...'penny saved, pound foolish...'

Lip

Tragg
07-12-2005, 11:19 PM
However, once he serves his suspension, and assuming he only gets a fine and community service for his actions (which likely will be a low-grade
misdemeanor), he's still going to be a very good pitcher. Look at that sterling 2.54 ERA and remember that he makes about half his starts in the launching pad of a home stadium that is Ameriquest Field.

As a pitcher, he's perfect for the Sox.

Kenny Rogers is having a CAREER YEAR at 40+. He's had a scattering of all-star quality seasons, but his norm is MEDICORE as evidenced by a)his last two seasons both had a 4.5+ ERA and b)his career ERA is 4.2. To get him would require a top-line starter price, when the reality is he's a 4 or 5 starter.

Plus, he is a coward of the highest order. Without provocation, he violently attacks someone - someone whom he knew had NO chance of defending himself (holding a camera). He hides behind lawyers, refuses to take his suspension (which should have been for the rest of the year) like a man, and files an appeal. Then he reads this ridiculous letter of apology, which begins with "I'm doing this against the advice of my lawyers" - what a hero you are Kenny Boy. Sure the courts will go easy on him - they always do for athletes; big deal - what he did was horrific. The players don't respect him - they know he got off easy, they know his mere presence at a game (much less the all star game) does nothing but tarnish baseball, and they recognize him for what he is - a bully who refuses to pay the price.
This last thing this team needs is a lowlife coward - that does not compute.

jake27
07-12-2005, 11:34 PM
So we need to replace Hernandez because of his age...with Kenny Rogers?:?:no1 said because of his age, its because his health is questionable. and i think if el duque is healthy, they would replace contares insted of el duque

FarWestChicago
07-13-2005, 12:05 AM
No.2:

Well at least Rogers hasn't been on the DL twice already this season has he?

Orlando when he has been able to pitch, has been good, the question is HOW much will he be able to pitch in the second half / October?

I wouldn't take the chance of having to go with Contreras / McCarthy down the stretch because The Duke is hurt again. August is coming and those 17 days could be a bitch.

LipGive it a rest, Lip. Now that we know The Gambler has serious rage control issues we know why you like him so much. :rolleyes:

DaleJRFan
07-13-2005, 12:13 AM
Well at least Rogers hasn't been on the DL twice already this season has he?

No, but he broke his hand punching crap in the dugout and will miss 4 or 5 starts having been suspended.

No Thanks.

JB98
07-13-2005, 12:28 AM
I think rogers would be great but the rangers aren't selling. What about JT Snow as a left-handed bat? He's old, but rather productive...

Should that be in teal? Snow has 2 HRs and 19 RBIs in 60 games. For a first baseman, that's pathetic production. We have better players sitting on our bench. (see Gload, Ross)

Lip Man 1
07-13-2005, 03:09 AM
West:

In 17 years this is the first time anything like this has happened with Rogers.

This isn't Albert Belle we're talking about or Steve Howe are we? If he had a track record of acting like an idiot, I'd agree with you... but he doesn't and I don't.

Big surprise eh? :?:

He's apologized, he was booed at the All Star Game, he's going to be suspended and fined. S#$% happens.

What more do you want? The guy can pitch and he can help the Sox if ever he's available.

If everyone would be hanged because they screwed up, the world and this web site would be far less populated... from the CEO, to the mods, to the common fans.

Last I looked Judge Roy Bean died a tad over a century ago.

Lip

TornLabrum
07-13-2005, 07:27 AM
West:

In 17 years this is the first time anything like this has happened with Rogers.

This isn't Albert Belle we're talking about or Steve Howe are we? If he had a track record of acting like an idiot, I'd agree with you... but he doesn't and I don't.

Big surprise eh? :?:

He's apologized, he was booed at the All Star Game, he's going to be suspended and fined. S#$% happens.

What more do you want? The guy can pitch and he can help the Sox if ever he's available.

If everyone would be hanged because they screwed up, the world and this web site would be far less populated... from the CEO, to the mods, to the common fans.

Last I looked Judge Roy Bean died a tad over a century ago.

Lip

If he was as contrite as everyone from Rogers to Buck to McCarver would have us believe, and if he really wants to put everything behind him (which really isn't his choice in a matter in which he is at fault), exactly why is it that he is appealing his suspension?

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2005, 09:57 AM
If he was as contrite as everyone from Rogers to Buck to McCarver would have us believe, and if he really wants to put everything behind him (which really isn't his choice in a matter in which he is at fault), exactly why is it that he is appealing his suspension?

If you believe the theory I re-capped based upon accounts from non-trolling DFW-area baseball beat writers who are in a position to be "in the know" (Evan Grant of The Dallas Morning News is the one reporter to whom Rogers has been willing to speak througout this year, BTW), I would think Rogers is hoping to minimize his suspension to keep his trade value higher.

My question is this: Can a suspended player be traded? If not, he won't come off suspension until after the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.

My point is that Rogers definitely can help a team who needs another starting pitcher. Like Lip, I'd rather that team be the Sox than Minnesota, Boston, New York, Baltimore, Anaheim or Oakland.

Ol' No. 2
07-13-2005, 10:16 AM
There's an old saying...'penny saved, pound foolish...'

LipLip, I'm SHOCKED.:o: I hope that was intentional.

"A penny saved is a penny earned"

"Penny wise, pound foolish"

:wink:

Tragg
07-13-2005, 10:52 AM
West:

In 17 years this is the first time anything like this has happened with Rogers.

This isn't Albert Belle we're talking about or Steve Howe are we? If he had a track record of acting like an idiot, I'd agree with you... but he doesn't and I don't.

Big surprise eh? :?:

He's apologized, he was booed at the All Star Game, he's going to be suspended and fined. S#$% happens.

What more do you want? The guy can pitch and he can help the Sox if ever he's available.

If everyone would be hanged because they screwed up, the world and this web site would be far less populated... from the CEO, to the mods, to the common fans.

Last I looked Judge Roy Bean died a tad over a century ago.

Lip

Please - Rogers went off UNPROVOKED and attacked someone whom he knew COULD NOT FIGHT BACK. VIOLENCE isn't quite the same as cursing out Mike Lupica or some other media idiot (which is basically all Belle did). Except to the media that is - funny, isn't it, that Rogers is another one who "won't talk to the media" - but he's a good guy.

His apology was ridiculously non-believable. The guy from the DMN is the only one with whom he has consistently talked, and that guy is a mere apologist, solely to keep his access.

I believe in second chances: serve a suspension like Artest or Sprewell served (a yearish) and we'll talk about it. Rogers won't even take his mediciine (which was extremely light) like a man.

Tragg
07-13-2005, 10:56 AM
If you believe the theory I re-capped based upon accounts from non-trolling DFW-area baseball beat writers who are in a position to be "in the know" (Evan Grant of The Dallas Morning News is the one reporter to whom Rogers has been willing to speak througout this year, BTW), I would think Rogers is hoping to minimize his suspension to keep his trade value higher.


Those are the people most likely to apologize for him, particularly Even Grant, who has been doing just that. You think the only media member he has talked to regularly is "objective" about him? Come on.

Lip Man 1
07-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Folks:

The MLBPA automatically appeals suspensions. I'd assume they'd do it for everyone and everything. Part of it is because (I assume) they ask the players to allow them to do this.

Not saying I disagree with those who say if Rogers was really sorry he'd sit it out, but all of also know this is also about polticial machinations between the MLBPA and the owners.

Regardless of what takes place, the conflict between those two groups is always there and always factors in.

I'm just saying by looking at his track record this is an abberation. I'd assume what happened last night won't be forgotten for a long time by Rogers himself, his family and the other players.

That being said if he's available and if the Sox don't trade the farm for a 40 year old pitcher, I'd have no problem seeing him on the team especially if Hernandez's creaky arm / shoulder/ elbow blows out and Contreras continues to be a pitching enigma.

With 75 games left you still need four quality starters to get you to the promised land and history shows that come October practically every MLB team has worked with four starters in at least one round. (Usually the LCS round.)

Lip

Lip Man 1
07-13-2005, 02:22 PM
No 2:

Nope my bad.

:smile:

Lip

Lip Man 1
07-13-2005, 02:27 PM
Tragg:

You mean like when Belle climbed into the stands at Mississippi State because some fans alledgedly hurled racial taunts at him? (If true I can understand his rage but you don't physically attack people do you?)

Or how about when he physically threw a ball and hit that guy in the chest in left field?

Or how about they time when he tried to run over the Trick or Treaters?

With respect there is a big difference between Belle and Rogers.

Lip