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WhiteSoxNation
07-11-2005, 02:36 PM
Ne one have ne thing to say about him?
I like him i think we need a guy who cracks 96mph consistantly only problem is location.
24yrs old look like Joe Borowski and is averagin just over 20walks per 9 lol

Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer

samram
07-11-2005, 02:37 PM
Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer

Then it's only a matter of time before the Sox are bad.

WhiteSoxNation
07-11-2005, 02:38 PM
Then it's only a matter of time before the Sox are bad.

Im saying he'll have(has) dominating stuff.

MUScholar21
07-11-2005, 02:38 PM
Ne one have ne thing to say about him?
I like him i think we need a guy who cracks 96mph consistantly only problem is location.
24yrs old look like Joe Borowski and is averagin just over 20walks per 9 lol

Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer

If 'ANYONE' has 'ANYTHING' to say it might be spell your words- you aren't writing in to TRL

TheOldRoman
07-11-2005, 02:42 PM
Ne one have ne thing to say about him?
I like him i think we need a guy who cracks 96mph consistantly only problem is location.
24yrs old look like Joe Borowski and is averagin just over 20walks per 9 lol

Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer
WhiteSoxAaron? Is that you?

BigEdWalsh
07-11-2005, 02:42 PM
Ne one have ne thing to say about him?


Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer

Ne one one have ne thing to say?! ***? Maybe you should look over what you type before submitting.

Jenks, our closer?? :rolling: :roflmao:

Steakpita
07-11-2005, 02:49 PM
Dustin Hermanson - 21 out of 22. Do we need another closer?! :angry:

That said, yeah, he has good stuff. We'll see how he develops and deals with being a part of a pennant race.

fquaye149
07-11-2005, 03:13 PM
Then it's only a matter of time before the Sox are bad.

I wouldn't go that far. He has some pretty good stuff. However, if he's closing this year something went dreadfully dreadfully wrong.

There are 4 guys in our bullpen who should be closing before he does. Five if you include Shingo (I would).

White Sox Josh
07-11-2005, 03:21 PM
I wouldn't go that far. He has some pretty good stuff. However, if he's closing this year something went dreadfully dreadfully wrong.

There are 4 guys in our bullpen who should be closing before he does. Five if you include Shingo (I would).when marte comes into the game for the ninth i just wanna:cower:

A_ROW33
07-11-2005, 03:42 PM
OK granted throwing in the high nineties isn't a bad thing but look at how many flops there have been who throw 98+. I mean sure there are the Gagnes and Billy Wagners of the world but there are also the John Rockers and Matt Andersons. High radar gun readings don't mean anything, only outs recorded and as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out as to whether he is able to record outs consistantly. He does have a good curveball too which is what gives me hope with this kid.

samram
07-11-2005, 03:51 PM
I wouldn't go that far. He has some pretty good stuff. However, if he's closing this year something went dreadfully dreadfully wrong.

There are 4 guys in our bullpen who should be closing before he does. Five if you include Shingo (I would).

I would also include Shingo. Therefore, if that guy was closing, imagine how bad the other five would have to be, and imagine who would be setting up for him. That's not a pretty picture.

LVSoxFan
07-11-2005, 03:56 PM
Farnsworth was throwing that fast for the Cubs last year and he sucked.

Not sure how he's doing with Detroit this year. But I'd like to see Jenks turn into something--I like that 99 mph stuff and that curveball was filthy.

ondafarm
07-11-2005, 04:03 PM
I think if Jenks works on his control in the minors, he will be very valuable as a classic closer type next year or the year after. Can you imagine batting against Shingo and then getting Jenks the next time you come up?

fquaye149
07-11-2005, 04:36 PM
I would also include Shingo. Therefore, if that guy was closing, imagine how bad the other five would have to be, and imagine who would be setting up for him. That's not a pretty picture.

On the flipside of the coin, that much depth means that the only possible way he could be closing this way is if he were absolutely untouchable. We would never be FORCED to put him at closer with the pen we have.

Having said all that, he probably won't even pitch in a meaningful situation this year, much less sniff the closer role.

Lip Man 1
07-11-2005, 09:42 PM
Don't see how Jenks can close from Charlotte.

Lip

jabrch
07-11-2005, 09:58 PM
24yrs old look like Joe Borowski

Looks NOTHING like Borowski. Jenks throws 100. Borowski on roids was in the high 80s. Borowski had a good two years when he had control, and could hump it up to 92, but could paint the corners in the 80s. Jenks only hope is that he throws it so hard that nobody notices how far outside the strike zone it is.

Really - the only thing he has in common with Borowski is that they both have hair.

flo-B-flo
07-11-2005, 10:45 PM
If this guy ever discovers location it will be lights out. That curve is just a nightmare for righties.

IowaSox1971
07-12-2005, 03:24 AM
Jenks possibly is being showcased for a potential trade. If we acquire a top starter from another organization, the other team is probably going to want a pitcher like Jenks included in the deal. But I do not think he is ready to be a key contributor to a contending team's pitching staff right now.

doublem23
07-12-2005, 05:13 AM
If this guy ever discovers location it will be lights out. That curve is just a nightmare for righties.

Agreed. If Bobby can find consistent control, he'll be lights out. If you can throw a 100-MPH fastball and a hook for strikes, you can close in the Major Leagues.

Definitely needs at least one more year of seasoning in the minors first. IIRC, this is his first full year in the Sox organization, right? I'd like to see him get more work in with the "throw strikes" philosophers that dominate the organization's pitching coaches. Also, I believe this is his first year of being a full-time reliever as well. Just a lot of adjustments he needs to make, but boy, he looked like he could be special last Wednesday at his MLB debut. He was blowing the D-Rays away.

iamkoza
07-12-2005, 05:33 AM
Farnsworth was throwing that fast for the Cubs last year and he sucked.

Not sure how he's doing with Detroit this year. But I'd like to see Jenks turn into something--I like that 99 mph stuff and that curveball was filthy.

That kids needs a 75-80 mph changeup to compliment the other two pitchers.. add a little control and presto we have something

Randar68
07-12-2005, 12:36 PM
That kids needs a 75-80 mph changeup to compliment the other two pitchers.. add a little control and presto we have something

If he had that he'd be a starter, not a releiver. A short-releiver "needs" no more than 2 pitches. Jenks has 2 plus-plus pitches. That is PLENTY if he combines them with just decent control/location and aggressiveness.

He absolutely does not need a change-up at this time.

Baby Fisk
07-12-2005, 12:44 PM
Ne one have ne thing to say about him?
I like him i think we need a guy who cracks 96mph consistantly only problem is location.
24yrs old look like Joe Borowski and is averagin just over 20walks per 9 lol

Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer
Are these the lyrics to a new song by Prince?

"Bob B Jenx U Got Hot ASSSSSS 4 Me" :dunno:

fquaye149
07-12-2005, 12:45 PM
If he had that he'd be a starter, not a releiver. A short-releiver "needs" no more than 2 pitches. Jenks has 2 plus-plus pitches. That is PLENTY if he combines them with just decent control/location and aggressiveness.

He absolutely does not need a change-up at this time.

people are so hung up on his fastball being straight. They seem to forget that when Koch threw in the high 90's he was successful. And Koch didn't even have a phenomenal curveball to fall back on.

a.) if Jenks continues to throw high 90's he will be untouchable.
b.) even if he loses velocity, he should be able to stay afloat because his curveball is fantastic.

AaronsAmigos
07-12-2005, 12:46 PM
bobby jenks is flamethrower :smile:

Baby Fisk
07-12-2005, 12:47 PM
bobby jenks is flamethrower :smile:
Hey, welcome aboard! Are you the REAL Aaron's Amigos? How do you all fit around the computer at once with those sombreros on?

White Sox Randy
07-12-2005, 01:12 PM
Jenks possibly is being showcased for a potential trade. If we acquire a top starter from another organization, the other team is probably going to want a pitcher like Jenks included in the deal. But I do not think he is ready to be a key contributor to a contending team's pitching staff right now.

I thought the same thing. It wouldn't surprise me if he is dealt by the end of the month. It depends what KW can get for him. He can't help the Sox this year because he isn't ready. He might be great one day.

Chicago83
07-12-2005, 01:26 PM
Looks NOTHING like Borowski. Jenks throws 100. Borowski on roids was in the high 80s. Borowski had a good two years when he had control, and could hump it up to 92, but could paint the corners in the 80s. Jenks only hope is that he throws it so hard that nobody notices how far outside the strike zone it is.

Really - the only thing he has in common with Borowski is that they both have hair.

I think what he meant was that Jenks physically looks like Joe Borowski, which he does.

I have little faith in this guy, he throws to hard. The good outing he had was againt the Devil Rays in a 9th inning blowout. Guys were swinging at fastballs HIGH in the strikezone. I don't care if you can throw 103, a good hitter will lay off if you can't throw a strike!

RichFitztightly
07-12-2005, 01:43 PM
If he had that he'd be a starter, not a releiver. A short-releiver "needs" no more than 2 pitches. Jenks has 2 plus-plus pitches. That is PLENTY if he combines them with just decent control/location and aggressiveness.

He absolutely does not need a change-up at this time.

Yes... and no. Gagne, to use an example has 3 pitches. Smoltz had 4. It's not that simple to defiine a starter as having 3 pitches. I understand your point, that to be a successful starter you need 3+ pitches while to be a successful closer you can get away with 2 pitches.

I think that with Jenks' arm and location troubles, he'd be better suited as a reliever and would be more successful as a reliever with a changeup. He needs something that is thrown from the same arm angle/speed/release point, yet is 10mph slower than his fastball. It's that little bit of deception that could make him devastating.

A fastball and curve ball are more easily distinguished between each other than a changeup and fastball. That longer period of recognition between a fastball and changeup means the hitter has less time to decide to swing therefore there's less time to catch up to that wicked fastball, which means they have to start their swing ealier before they recognize the pitch, witch leaves them open to the deception of the changeup.

fquaye149
07-12-2005, 01:58 PM
This is absolutely ridiculous. The guy throws "too hard" someone says. Someone else says he needs 3+ pitches?

*****. If he can perfect his control he will be untouchable. He has a blazing fastball and a 12/6 curve with excellent action.

His control problems? Did you watch the game? He was around the plate on almost every pitch. He wasn't getting close calls, but we don't expect a rookie to.

Good grief. The guy has scary stuff.

Ol' No. 2
07-12-2005, 02:02 PM
Am I the only one amused by all these sweeping conclusions based on seeing a guy pitch a grand total of 1.1 innings?

fquaye149
07-12-2005, 02:03 PM
Am I the only one amused by all these sweeping conclusions based on seeing a guy pitch a grand total of 1.1 innings?

I've heard about his stuff all year and now I've had a chance to see exactly how good his deuce is. So yeah, I'm going to make conclusions like:

if he learns how to pitch and locate he will be nasty.

yes.

Sxy Mofo
07-12-2005, 02:46 PM
"ne one" = Six key strokes
"anyone" = Six key strokes


I just don't get it.

fquaye149
07-12-2005, 02:48 PM
"ne one" = Six key strokes
"anyone" = Six key strokes


I just don't get it.

d00d it r0x0rz! It helps you be 1337 and pwn ppl.

Sxy Mofo
07-12-2005, 02:51 PM
d00d it r0x0rz! It helps you be 1337 and pwn ppl.


lolololololol. *** is w/ dat?

tlk 2 u l8er.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-12-2005, 03:23 PM
d00d it r0x0rz! It helps you be 1337 and pwn ppl.

hahaha

PWND!!!11111

Sxy Mofo
07-12-2005, 03:30 PM
d00d it r0x0rz! It helps you be 1337 and pwn ppl.

Ya know, i bet half the people out there are going "why would you want to be thirteen-thirty-seven? those crazy kids"

skobabe8
07-12-2005, 03:51 PM
Ne one have ne thing to say about him?
I like him i think we need a guy who cracks 96mph consistantly only problem is location.
24yrs old look like Joe Borowski and is averagin just over 20walks per 9 lol

Its only a matter of time b4 he's our closer

I couldnt decide what was funnier--what was said or how it was said.

Iguana775
07-12-2005, 04:12 PM
crap, I'm getting old. I have no idea what half this thread says.

:o:

Sxy Mofo
07-12-2005, 04:13 PM
crap, I'm getting old. I have no idea what half this thread says.

:o:

Ya know, i bet half the people out there are going "why would you want to be thirteen-thirty-seven? those crazy kids"

I knew it!

wxkid23
07-12-2005, 04:18 PM
Jenks has serious location problems obviously. 18bb in 40 ip in AA is not good, even for a closer. It's obvious he has trouble locating his 4seam and I would suspect his curve is just as wild. I think a trip back to AA until September may be in order then evaluate and see if he can be helpful down the stretch. This is a guy with sky high potential and we don't want to screw him up.

davenicholson
07-12-2005, 04:22 PM
d00d it r0x0rz! It helps you be 1337 and pwn ppl.
:?::?::?::?::?:

I learned "POS" from my daughter only recently.

sthbndsox
07-12-2005, 04:24 PM
I haven't seen this guy pitch in either of the games because i wasn't home for either, but I keep hearing about this devastating curve ball, and now I really want to see it. Does anyone know where or if I can get a video clip of him pitching?

TaylorStSox
07-12-2005, 04:31 PM
Did somebody just say Jenks needs 3+ pitches and use Gagne and Smoltz as examples? Those guys have more than 2 pitches but they were also starters for most of their career. They have more than 2 pitches but only threw 2. Gagne was a fastball/change pitcher and Smoltz threw only his fastball/slider in closing situations.

Jenks just needs to mature and come into his own. He's not a concern at all.

J3|\|k5 57|_|ff 0|/\||\|5 j00!!!


^^ 13375p34K 15 k001. :redneck

TornLabrum
07-12-2005, 04:34 PM
Did somebody just say Jenks needs 3+ pitches and use Gagne and Smoltz as examples? Those guys have more than 2 pitches but they were also starters for most of their career. They have more than 2 pitches but only threw 2. Gagne was a fastball/change pitcher and Smoltz threw only his fastball/slider in closing situations.

Jenks just needs to mature and come into his own. He's not a concern at all.

J3|\|k5 57|_|ff 0|/\||\|5 j00!!!


^^ 13375p34K 15 k001. :redneck

13375p34K is 01D. Hell, I remember reading that crap on IRC in 1995.

TaylorStSox
07-12-2005, 04:39 PM
13375p34K is 01D. Hell, I remember reading that crap on IRC in 1995.


You are correct. It was a joke.

TornLabrum
07-12-2005, 04:53 PM
You are correct. It was a joke.

I was hoping somebody would spend an hour trying to translate 1995 from 13375p34K.

Sxy Mofo
07-12-2005, 05:05 PM
You know, one of the things i notice about this place compared to other message boards is how threads will stay on topic even through 4 or 5 pages. This is not one of those times.

Randar68
07-12-2005, 05:52 PM
Yes... and no. Gagne, to use an example has 3 pitches. Smoltz had 4. It's not that simple to defiine a starter as having 3 pitches. I understand your point, that to be a successful starter you need 3+ pitches while to be a successful closer you can get away with 2 pitches.

I think that with Jenks' arm and location troubles, he'd be better suited as a reliever and would be more successful as a reliever with a changeup. He needs something that is thrown from the same arm angle/speed/release point, yet is 10mph slower than his fastball. It's that little bit of deception that could make him devastating.

A fastball and curve ball are more easily distinguished between each other than a changeup and fastball. That longer period of recognition between a fastball and changeup means the hitter has less time to decide to swing therefore there's less time to catch up to that wicked fastball, which means they have to start their swing ealier before they recognize the pitch, witch leaves them open to the deception of the changeup.

This post is ridiculous. Gagne was a failed starter until moving to the bullpen and suddenly finding 5+ mph on his fastball. As a releiver he almost never uses anything other than fastball/change.

You say Jenks needs another pitch that is 10 mph off his fastball? His Curve is 85-86 mph and his fastball is 95-99 mph with a little sink on it!

GOOD GOD! Fastball and curve are more easily distinguishable? Not if they're thrown from the same arm slot, which is the key no matter what. Besides, how much time does a guy have to read arm-slot and decide to swing or not after seeing the pitch come out of his hand when the fastball is pitching 100 mph?

He needs 3 pitches like I need a 3rd nut.

Sxy Mofo
07-12-2005, 06:00 PM
This post is ridiculous. Gagne was a failed starter until moving to the bullpen and suddenly finding 5+ mph on his fastball. As a releiver he almost never uses anything other than fastball/change.

You say Jenks needs another pitch that is 10 mph off his fastball? His Curve is 85-86 mph and his fastball is 95-99 mph with a little sink on it!

GOOD GOD! Fastball and curve are more easily distinguishable? Not if they're thrown from the same arm slot, which is the key no matter what. Besides, how much time does a guy have to read arm-slot and decide to swing or not after seeing the pitch come out of his hand when the fastball is pitching 100 mph?

He needs 3 pitches like I need a 3rd nut.


I don't know if i'd quite use that analogy. 3 pitches can't hurt a pitcher and often times is a good thing. a 3rd nut... you don't want that and it's not a good thing.

TaylorStSox
07-12-2005, 06:08 PM
3 pitches doesn't really help a reliever. Yes, it can hurt. Most closers have such good stuff that all they need to do is throw the ball and not worry about pitch selection.

The best reliever in the game for the last decade throws 1 pitch.

Randar68
07-12-2005, 06:36 PM
3 pitches doesn't really help a reliever. Yes, it can hurt. Most closers have such good stuff that all they need to do is throw the ball and not worry about pitch selection.

The best reliever in the game for the last decade throws 1 pitch.

You're right, and here is why. When a pitcher is warming up, he doesn't have time to get the feel for all his pitches. He doesn't NEED more than a couple. Smoltz said as a starter he'd take 40+ pitches warming up until he felt comfortable with having the feel for all 4 of his pitches. As a releiver, he'd only have time to throw 10-20 after getting loose and he didn't have time to try them all out. He'd get Comfortable with his fastball and one other pitch that he felt good with at first-try and go from there into the game.

A releiver doesn't have the time to warm-up and get more than 2, maybe 3, pitches working for him and comfortable with on any given day. This is especially true for a closer or short-releiver who, upon the happennings in the 8th inning may have to get loose and ready to go in just 10-15 pitches...



When you have 2 plus-plus pitches, there is no freaking reason on the face of this Earth to have a third unless you already have it in the bag. Jenks needs to work on location, that's it. He wasn't crazy-wild in his bad outing, he just was nitpicking the edges and not challenging hitters, which most young pitchers have trouble with when they make a big jump up (a la AA->Bigs)

Get ahead with the fastball early, use the inner half, challenge hitters, and THEN drop the curve on them... That's all the kid has to learn to do...

RichFitztightly
07-12-2005, 10:30 PM
This post is ridiculous. Gagne was a failed starter until moving to the bullpen and suddenly finding 5+ mph on his fastball. As a releiver he almost never uses anything other than fastball/change.

I'm not sure what your point is here. I realize he was a failed starter. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Jenks was a starter at one point too. The fact that Gagne has 3 great pitches and uses a fastball/changeup combo backs up my point. If you're going to be dominant with 2 pitches, they need to be a fastball/changeup combo. Gagne uses his breaking pitch sparingly, but he'll use it as an out pitch and to get a double play ball off of it.

You say Jenks needs another pitch that is 10 mph off his fastball? His Curve is 85-86 mph and his fastball is 95-99 mph with a little sink on it!

I realize he has a great curve. The reason why I say he needs to develop a changeup is that a curveball is very tempremental. It's very tough to throw it for strikes and if you're not getting it over, you're essentially a one pitch pitcher. All of the dominant 2 pitch pitchers have a changeup as their second pitch. The pitchers who threw fastball/breaking pitch exclusively includes the likes of Bobby Howry, Billy Koch, and Kyle Farnsworth. None of those pitchers are dominant. All of them are inconsistent. When I suggest Jenks learn a changeup I'm suggesting it in the hopes that he'll become a dominant pitcher for a long time. If he sticks with a fastball/curve combo, he'll need to be impeccable with his control on his fastball and even better with his curveball. If he has a Fastball/Change combo he doesn't need to be as precise with his control, he'll be able to change speeds easier, he can use his curveball as an out pitch, and he has the potential to be completely dominant.

GOOD GOD! Fastball and curve are more easily distinguishable? Not if they're thrown from the same arm slot, which is the key no matter what. Besides, how much time does a guy have to read arm-slot and decide to swing or not after seeing the pitch come out of his hand when the fastball is pitching 100 mph?

It's most definitely easier to tell a fastball and a curveball apart then it is to tell a fastball and a changeup apart. I've never had trouble distinguishing a curveball from a fastball. I've even gotten hit in the helmet a couple of times waiting for a curveball to break that just hung there. The ball comes out of the hand differently. The pitcher tends to be on top of the ball when he throws a curveball while he tends to be more behind the ball when he throws a fastball or a change up.

Just for credential's sake, I've batted against Honel who has a good curveball and I've batted against a kid from Indiana and a good lefty on a travelling team from Michigan, both of whom were rumored to be drafted out of high school. I've seen some good curveballs, and I've never had trouble picking the pitch out. Now, swinging and hitting them at the spot they're going to end up... well, that's another story.

He needs 3 pitches like I need a 3rd nut.

Hey, if you had a third nut, you'd probably be able to shoot pepsi cans off the kitchen table from across the room. Imagine the porn career you'd have then.

Just to reiterate here and sum up my long winded post, I think Jenks can be successful, even dominant at times with a fastball/curve combo. However, I think he can be consistently dominant with a fastball/change combo. You touched on the idea that it's difficult to learn a new pitch and implied that it's easier to learn to command his pitches. That's certainly true, and it makes for a difficult dilemma. I believe that if your two pitches are fastball/curve Jenks needs to have consistent command that hasn't been seen since Koufax was dominating hitters. He had the added advantage of being lefty.

RichFitztightly
07-12-2005, 10:33 PM
When you have 2 plus-plus pitches, there is no freaking reason on the face of this Earth to have a third unless you already have it in the bag. Jenks needs to work on location, that's it. He wasn't crazy-wild in his bad outing, he just was nitpicking the edges and not challenging hitters, which most young pitchers have trouble with when they make a big jump up (a la AA->Bigs)

Get ahead with the fastball early, use the inner half, challenge hitters, and THEN drop the curve on them... That's all the kid has to learn to do...

This is a great game plan. I think he'll have too much trouble with consistent location/command of his two pitches though.

Randar68
07-13-2005, 11:59 AM
That's certainly true, and it makes for a difficult dilemma. I believe that if your two pitches are fastball/curve Jenks needs to have consistent command that hasn't been seen since Koufax was dominating hitters. He had the added advantage of being lefty.

You don't need to be "precise" when you throw 99 mph. That's the point I don't think you're accepting.

fquaye149
07-13-2005, 01:18 PM
Hey, if you had a third nut, you'd probably be able to shoot pepsi cans off the kitchen table from across the room. Imagine the porn career you'd have then.

Just to reiterate here and sum up my long winded post, I think Jenks can be successful, even dominant at times with a fastball/curve combo. However, I think he can be consistently dominant with a fastball/change combo. You touched on the idea that it's difficult to learn a new pitch and implied that it's easier to learn to command his pitches. That's certainly true, and it makes for a difficult dilemma. I believe that if your two pitches are fastball/curve Jenks needs to have consistent command that hasn't been seen since Koufax was dominating hitters. He had the added advantage of being lefty.

a.) that's not true
b.) that's a strawman
c.) shut up

AaronsAmigos
07-13-2005, 01:23 PM
Hey, welcome aboard! Are you the REAL Aaron's Amigos? How do you all fit around the computer at once with those sombreros on?
I've got a hat stand right next to my computer

maurice
07-13-2005, 01:27 PM
I've never had trouble distinguishing a curveball from a fastball.

A 100 MPH fastball?

This whole discussion is silly. Many MANY successful MLB relievers throw only 2 pitches, usually a FB and some sort of breaking ball. Most of them do not throw anywhere near as hard as Jenks. Most good MLB pitchers who throw very hard do not have outstanding command.

TaylorStSox
07-13-2005, 01:40 PM
IIRC, Smoltz, Eckersley, Gossage, Rivera (1 pitch pitcher), Isringhausen, Gordon, and countless other great relievers didn't or don't throw change ups. All of them are fastball/curveball, fastball/splitter, or fastball/slider pitchers. None of them really throw their offspeed pitch for strikes. Gagne doesn't throw his change for strikes. They all have such good action on the pitch that it only has to be down in the zone to get a hitter to commit.