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View Full Version : Trade proposal: replace Konerko with Helton


CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 01:48 AM
I know some of you may hate this idea, but it needs to be explored. I for one am not comfortable with ChoKonerko as our clean up hitter, especially when it comes playoff time. As of right now the Sox are hitting below .250 as a team vs. righties, and we definitely need a left handed hitter in the middle of our lineup that can produce. I know Helton struggled early this season, but he has been on fire lately, and has a proven track record as one of the best hitter's in the game, not to mention he's a LEFTY! Pk is way too streaky for my tastes, as is most of this team, we need more consistency in our lineup and Helton can most definitely provide that. Anyway I am sure most of you know that Helton has been a great hitter the last few years so i don't need to go on about how this move would be good 4 us.......Basically my proposal is to trade Konerko to Houston(Who are desperately looking for someone to replace Bagwell for the stretch run) for prospects, and use those, along w/ probably a few of ours, to get Helton. Then if we can, try to make a move for a 4th starter(I don't trust EL Duque's arm either) or a lights out closer( like Wagner if he's available). ..........At this point I think we have what it takes to make the playoffs, but unfortunately i think we have too many guys that can be pitched to when and if we get there. Someone like Helton could be the difference between us just getting there and making the WS...... Not to mention he has an obp of over .400 and is supposedly a great clubhouse guy and leader. :cool:

JUribe1989
07-10-2005, 02:00 AM
The Rockies wouldn't just take prospects for Helton.

CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 02:01 AM
The Rockies wouldn't just take prospects for Helton. Why not? There going absolutely nowhere right now.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-10-2005, 02:04 AM
that'd be awsome, but no

JB98
07-10-2005, 02:18 AM
Why not? There going absolutely nowhere right now.

You sabotaged your own argument. Helton is a great, great hitter and would be an upgrade at first base for any team in the majors except for St. Louis (Pujols). However, because he's a great hitter, Colorado would want major-league talent for him. If I were holding a chip like Helton, I wouldn't trade him unless I could get three guys who could step in immediately and help the big-league club. You just don't trade away a guy who might be a future HOF'er for a bunch of kids down on the farm. I don't know if we have the pieces to make such a deal.

Chisox003
07-10-2005, 02:20 AM
Hey, great, another trade thread....

Oh, what's that? There was a 5,000 post thread on a Helton trade earlier in the year?

Well in that case

:threadsucks

And another trade thread means another case of MAJOR

:deadhorse:

CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 02:23 AM
You sabotaged your own argument. Helton is a great, great hitter and would be an upgrade at first base for any team in the majors except for St. Louis (Pujols). However, because he's a great hitter, Colorado would want major-league talent for him. If I were holding a chip like Helton, I wouldn't trade him unless I could get three guys who could step in immediately and help the big-league club. You just don't trade away a guy who might be a future HOF'er for a bunch of kids down on the farm. I don't know if we have the pieces to make such a deal. Didn't the Mariners trade Randy Johnson for just prospects? It is a possibility, and your right I'm not sure if we would be able give them enough top prospects, but it should be looked into.

JB98
07-10-2005, 02:23 AM
Oh, and one more thing: Let's say hypothetically that Colorado likes some guys that are currently in the Houston organization. If that's the case and the Astros are in need of a first baseman, then why wouldn't Houston just ship those prospects to Colorado for Helton? Why the hell would they send the prospects to us for PK, so that we could send the same package of players to Colorado for Helton? That doesn't add up, unless you think PK would be a more attractive player for Houston than Helton would be. I doubt that's the case.

CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 02:24 AM
Hey, great, another trade thread....

Oh, what's that? There was a 5,000 post thread on a Helton trade earlier in the year?

Well in that case

:threadsucks

And another trade thread means another case of MAJOR

:deadhorse: Sorry, i haven't seen any Helton threads recently, or in the past for that matter.

CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 02:26 AM
Oh, and one more thing: Let's say hypothetically that Colorado likes some guys that are currently in the Houston organization. If that's the case and the Astros are in need of a first baseman, then why wouldn't Houston just ship those prospects to Colorado for Helton? Why the hell would they send the prospects to us for PK, so that we could send the same package of players to Colorado for Helton? That doesn't add up, unless you think PK would be a more attractive player for Houston than Helton would be. I doubt that's the case. PK is exactly the kind of hitter that Houston would want w/ their short porch in left, And i doubt they would have enough prospects on their own to get Helton.

JB98
07-10-2005, 02:28 AM
Didn't the Mariners trade Randy Johnson for just prospects? It is a possibility, and your right I'm not sure if we would be able give them enough top prospects, but it should be looked into.

Johnson was going to be a FA. The Mariners were scared they'd lose him for nothing but compensatory picks, so that drove the price down. I'm pretty certain that isn't the case with Helton. He's locked up long-term, if I'm not mistaken. Colorado may want to trade him in order to free up some salary, but what good does it do for the Rockies to free up salary? No one in their right mind wants to play there anyway. They aren't going to make a big splash in free agency next offseason even if they try.

MUsoxfan
07-10-2005, 02:33 AM
Let's trade Uribe for Tejada, Contreras for Clemens and Crede for A-Rod.


Teal needed??


Let's start picking things apart and proposing dumb *** trade ideas when this team doesn't have the BEST FREAKING RECORD IN BASEBALL!

CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 02:33 AM
Johnson was going to be a FA. The Mariners were scared they'd lose him for nothing but compensatory picks, so that drove the price down. I'm pretty certain that isn't the case with Helton. He's locked up long-term, if I'm not mistaken. Colorado may want to trade him in order to free up some salary, but what good does it do for the Rockies to free up salary? No one in their right mind wants to play there anyway. They aren't going to make a big splash in free agency next offseason even if they try. Well actually he's locked up for another 6 years and 90 million. Not sure if it's a good idea after all :redface:

JB98
07-10-2005, 02:35 AM
PK is exactly the kind of hitter that Houston would want w/ their short porch in left, And i doubt they would have enough prospects on their own to get Helton.

Short porch or not, I'd still rather have Helton if I were Houston. He has opposite-field power, so the short porch is still in play with him, and he's just a better overall hitter. Not to mention, he runs better than PK and is better with the glove. But you already know that. That's why you made the post to begin with: You think Helton would be an upgrade for the Sox at first base, and you'd be right. That's just something that needs to be posted in deep pink, IMO.

I have no idea what the status of the Houston farm system is, so I can't comment intelligently on your second statement.

TheOldRoman
07-10-2005, 02:56 AM
You sabotaged your own argument. Helton is a great, great hitter and would be an upgrade at first base for any team in the majors except for St. Louis (Pujols). However, because he's a great hitter, Colorado would want major-league talent for him. If I were holding a chip like Helton, I wouldn't trade him unless I could get three guys who could step in immediately and help the big-league club. You just don't trade away a guy who might be a future HOF'er for a bunch of kids down on the farm. I don't know if we have the pieces to make such a deal.
Well, the Rockies would LOVE to get rid of his salary. He is a great player, but they aren't going to be a good team any time soon. They signed him to a huge deal when the market was way up, and now his contract is a burden. If they are gonna suck, they might as well do it with a lesser payroll. If the Sox do get Zach Day, as has been rumored, they could send him, McCarthy, possibly another prospect, and Konerko to Colorado for Helton and $5-8mil a year for the remainder of his contract. Colorado could then deal Helton to Houston. It's not likely, but it is possible.

ilsox7
07-10-2005, 03:26 AM
Sorry, i haven't seen any Helton threads recently, or in the past for that matter.

Search function. There is a several hundred post thread on this.

Jurr
07-10-2005, 11:07 AM
Search function. There is a several hundred post thread on this.
Exactly. By the way, you're not going to see the Sox blowing up the nucleus of their 57-28 team at the trading deadline to "upgrade". Yeah, Helton is great and Helton is good, and Helton runs faster and probably cooks better than Konerko, but dealing Paulie at this point in the season would be grounds for mutiny and a possible second half implosion. You don't tinker with chemistry like that right now. That's why KW is trying to make deals involving prospects, so he's not shipping out his front line guys in the middle of the season. Please try and save all of the "Konerko needs to go" crap until after the season, when it's practical.

mdep524
07-10-2005, 12:07 PM
Exactly. By the way, you're not going to see the Sox blowing up the nucleus of their 57-28 team at the trading deadline to "upgrade". Yeah, Helton is great and Helton is good, and Helton runs faster and probably cooks better than Konerko, but dealing Paulie at this point in the season would be grounds for mutiny and a possible second half implosion. You don't tinker with chemistry like that right now. That's why KW is trying to make deals involving prospects, so he's not shipping out his front line guys in the middle of the season. Please try and save all of the "Konerko needs to go" crap until after the season, when it's practical. First of all, it's good to see this topic revisited, as it is one of my favorite hypothetical on this board, so thanks CYGarland20! :cheers: And by the way, it IS very plausible, no matter what the naysayers say, because Helton is handcuffing Colorado almost exactly the way ARod did to the Rangers. We lose a couple good prosects- Sweeney, maybe Rogo, maybe Tracey, and Konerko, and the Rockies would eat enough of Helton's salary to make him no more expensive- though MUCH more valuable- to the Sox than GIDPK.

Now, as for Jurr's and others' posts about a "mutiny" and "implosion" if Paulie is moved... :rolleyes: :whatever: :rolleyes:. Pleeease.

What do you think the other 24 players on that team, as well as the manager, general manager, owner and fans are interested in? Placating Paulie- who is overrated at the plate, in the field, and in the clubhouse- or WINNING? We're not talking about dumping Paulie, we're talking about a major upgrade. Who gives the Sox a better chance to win now? Helton. Who gives the Sox a better chance to win in the future? Helton.

If a deal like this were on the table, the Sox would be nuts not to take it. Will it ever be on the table? Maybe not. But if they had the chance you can be sure KW would look at it.

SoxSpeed22
07-10-2005, 12:15 PM
:uribe:"I'm sure Helton would appreciate havin' me around. The hell with Royce."

JB98
07-10-2005, 01:32 PM
Well, the Rockies would LOVE to get rid of his salary. He is a great player, but they aren't going to be a good team any time soon. They signed him to a huge deal when the market was way up, and now his contract is a burden. If they are gonna suck, they might as well do it with a lesser payroll. If the Sox do get Zach Day, as has been rumored, they could send him, McCarthy, possibly another prospect, and Konerko to Colorado for Helton and $5-8mil a year for the remainder of his contract. Colorado could then deal Helton to Houston. It's not likely, but it is possible.

Like I said, deep pink. I'm a card-carrying member of Friends of PK, and even I wouldn't pass on bringing Helton in here. Although, I would be worried about him having six years left on his deal. Around the year 2010, that contract could be an albatross. But hey, it's not my money, so I guess I shouldn't worry. I just don't see a scenario developing in which we get Helton. That's the bottom line.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2005, 01:49 PM
Helton's contract makes any trade to the Sox very unlikely. He gets in double figures in millions of dollars over the next I think, three years.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
07-10-2005, 04:32 PM
As was discussed in the earlier threads, the better the prospects the Rockies get in return, the more cash they are likely to send with Helton to the Sox.

The Rockies have a precedent for doing this kind of deal - they assumed some of Mike Hampton's deal when they traded him away just to get rid of the contract. A good enough package of prospects should get Helton's annual salary down to $12 million per year, which is just a bit more than Konerko will get from someone on the free agent market.

A World Series win makes all the payroll problems go away.

This kind of deal can happen, and it would make the Sox that much more formidable in the playoffs. With the kind of 1-2 punch the Sox have in Pods and Iguchi, and the protection Frank could provide, Helton would flourish batting third for the Sox.

CYGarland20
07-10-2005, 04:51 PM
Exactly. By the way, you're not going to see the Sox blowing up the nucleus of their 57-28 team at the trading deadline to "upgrade". Yeah, Helton is great and Helton is good, and Helton runs faster and probably cooks better than Konerko, but dealing Paulie at this point in the season would be grounds for mutiny and a possible second half implosion. You don't tinker with chemistry like that right now. That's why KW is trying to make deals involving prospects, so he's not shipping out his front line guys in the middle of the season. Please try and save all of the "Konerko needs to go" crap until after the season, when it's practical. I'm sorry, but i just don't like the way our middle of the lineup looks, especially come postseason. If we have to rely on PK, Rowand or Dye to drive in big runs, i think were screwed. We need another consistent bat in the middle of our lineup that can protect Frank, and is a lefty imo. Helton would be that guy, unfortunately i doubt this deal would happen, but it doesn't hurt to ask :cool:

White Sox Josh
07-10-2005, 04:52 PM
Helton is one of the best hitters to ever play in the 90's. He is a Future HOF.

chitownhawkfan
07-10-2005, 05:28 PM
Let's trade Uribe for Tejada, Contreras for Clemens and Crede for A-Rod.


Teal needed??


Let's start picking things apart and proposing dumb *** trade ideas when this team doesn't have the BEST FREAKING RECORD IN BASEBALL!

:rolling: thanks, this needed to be posted
:andy

White Sox Josh
07-10-2005, 05:35 PM
:rolling: thanks, this needed to be posted
:andystop with the clown it's giving me nightmeres.:cower: