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View Full Version : Time to check ourselves


MERPER
07-10-2005, 12:17 AM
Great column by Rick Morrisey here, and I LOVE how Guillen handeled it... reminds me of Bobby Cox pulling Andruw Jones in the middle of an inning once for not hustling on a fly ball....

I have all the confidence in the world this will be a great thing, making the clubhouse realize the season is far from over... I think that even some people on this board have gotten a bit carried away....

Well, read for yourselves and form your own opinions...

Ozzie calls our Uribe (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-050709morrissey,1,6926495.column?coll=cs-home-utility)

slobes
07-10-2005, 12:27 AM
I completely agree with you MERPER. I think Ozzie handled it perfectly; he obviously isn't gonna be taking crap like that. If Crede were 100%, I bet Uribe wouldn't start tomorrow.

Rocklive99
07-10-2005, 12:33 AM
Psshh, that game was lost, it was a typical Oakland game, the type you hope no one gets hurt and til the end of the game and go get them tomorow. I don't want to make excuses for Uribe, but he's been banged up, and who knows, maybe he judged it wrong off the bat. Something worse IMO was Friday, Willie not being able to get a runner over twice, not even look like he was trying to hit the ball to the right side, and mouthing off about not starting enough at the same time? I'm not Ozzie, this is his job, but I would've maybe talked to him after the game, not scream and vent it to the media, it just sounds like frustration after getting made look silly by Oakland again.

Clembasbal
07-10-2005, 12:48 AM
Psshh, that game was lost, it was a typical Oakland game, the type you hope no one gets hurt and til the end of the game and go get them tomorow. I don't want to make excuses for Uribe, but he's been banged up, and who knows, maybe he judged it wrong off the bat. Something worse IMO was Friday, Willie not being able to get a runner over twice, not even look like he was trying to hit the ball to the right side, and mouthing off about not starting enough at the same time? I'm not Ozzie, this is his job, but I would've maybe talked to him after the game, not scream and vent it to the media, it just sounds like frustration after getting made look silly by Oakland again.

Nope.

Uribe has been like this throughout his career. He is a great hitter, for sure. But Colorado did not like his streaky-ness and his attitude. I am almost positive that this might happen from another player one more time the rest of the season, but no more than that and not again from Uribe if her wants to continue playing for the White Sox. I want him to stay I like him, but he does have an attitude and it is not from him being a little banged-up at the moment.

FarWestChicago
07-10-2005, 12:50 AM
I want him to stay I like him, but he does have an attitude and it is not from him being a little banged-up at the moment.:walnuts

I agree!!

Rocklive99
07-10-2005, 12:56 AM
Well than we have differing opinions. I could care less if he has an attitude, as long as he puts up his numbers makes the plays at short, which he has done. Obviously laziness isn't a good thing, but I don't think that can be changed from a player, but it doesn't concern me from him. He steps up when it's needed, see last night's play where his diving stop saved a run. If Ozzie is going to call out Uribe, then he should smack Timo around for every one handed catch he makes. That makes my heart stop more than Uribe tonight, especially since he does it in big time situations and comes off as laziness to many.

EDIT: Also, it's not a laziness like the Dangelo Jimenez category, who would translate it into his defense and in big situations. Uribe has been money on defense this year, and much better than Manos. He's one of my favorite players to watch. I already talked about the diving stop last night, also, that pickoff at 2nd he had recently, that was awesome.

I don't like laziness, but I realize baseball players aren't robots or machines, I don't expect him to have Pete Rose energy when down by 9 at the end of the game.

MERPER
07-10-2005, 01:02 AM
I am all for Uribe, he is a good 9-hole guy and makes terrific plays in the infield while hustling his ass off most of the time...

But, I can't think of another time this season that a guy didn't run something out or not run hard enough...

Ozzie needs to make sure these guys don't get too comfortable and forget who they are... we need max effort every night....Ozzie sent a message that while he likes his team and is there friend, you better not forget who is in charge...

If he hadn't done this, it could have a spiraling effect... Ozzie has full control on this team and that's what way he wants it

JB98
07-10-2005, 01:08 AM
Psshh, that game was lost, it was a typical Oakland game, the type you hope no one gets hurt and til the end of the game and go get them tomorow. I don't want to make excuses for Uribe, but he's been banged up, and who knows, maybe he judged it wrong off the bat. Something worse IMO was Friday, Willie not being able to get a runner over twice, not even look like he was trying to hit the ball to the right side, and mouthing off about not starting enough at the same time? I'm not Ozzie, this is his job, but I would've maybe talked to him after the game, not scream and vent it to the media, it just sounds like frustration after getting made look silly by Oakland again.

I totally disagree with you. There is nothing worse than lack of hustle. There are times when our players will fail to execute. We live with that because they are human, and they will make mistakes. However, I will not tolerate lack of effort and neither will Ozzie. We were getting our asses kicked tonight, but my friends and I stayed at the Cell until the final out to root for the Sox. Given that, I don't think it's too much to ask that our players play hard until the final out, even when it appears all hope is lost. "It's Oakland" is not an excuse for failing to run out a flyball.

Ozzie has every right to be furious with Uribe and with the team in general. The effort stunk tonight. Ozzie should air the team out behind closed doors and in the media. They deserve it after tonight. We don't need any complacency here. We need to keep our edge. I want a manager who isn't afraid to call players out when necessary. One of the reasons the Cubs suck is because their manager lets them get away with anything, and then he defends them in the press even when they deserve to be criticized. That's a chicken crap way to manage, and it breeds failure.

I'll conclude by saying that I support Juan Uribe, and I want him to be our shortstop. However, that display tonight was pure BS, and I don't ever want to see it again from him or anybody else in a White Sox uniform.

lostletters
07-10-2005, 01:16 AM
I think this is why Ozzie is probably the best manager the Sox have had in years. He is not going to let this team coast. People are bringing up the question, will the sox fade out in the playoffs because all of the wins.

I think that will not be the case. I think any time the team seems to be fading, Ozzie is going to light the fire once again.

I am not sure if it was Oakland or not. But every team comes upon this juncture, and Ozzie is handling this the right way.

His team has not been giving thier all the last couple of nights. I think this is part of the reason why the White Sox have been so good. Because whenever he seems to see the Sox falling into bad tendancies, he knows WHEN to react.

Rocklive99
07-10-2005, 01:17 AM
I totally disagree with you. There is nothing worse than lack of hustle. There are times when our players will fail to execute. We live with that because they are human, and they will make mistakes. However, I will not tolerate lack of effort and neither will Ozzie. We were getting our asses kicked tonight, but my friends and I stayed at the Cell until the final out to root for the Sox. Given that, I don't think it's too much to ask that our players play hard until the final out, even when it appears all hope is lost. "It's Oakland" is not an excuse for failing to run out a flyball.

Ozzie has every right to be furious with Uribe and with the team in general. The effort stunk tonight. Ozzie should air the team out behind closed doors and in the media. They deserve it after tonight. We don't need any complacency here. We need to keep our edge. I want a manager who isn't afraid to call players out when necessary. One of the reasons the Cubs suck is because their manager lets them get away with anything, and then he defends them in the press even when they deserve to be criticized. That's a chicken crap way to manage, and it breeds failure.

1. "It's Oakland" would be a bs excuse, but given that game tone and situation, I'd give Juan the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's just me.

2. I don't think they tried not to win. They got shut down by Zito and a couple of Ozuna errors did them in. At least 50-60 losses are guaranteed, I have yet to see a team go 162-0. Sometimes you lose, even if you have the better team, but I don't think the effort was the problem

Lip Man 1
07-10-2005, 01:22 AM
Ozzie wants to nip this in the bud before things perhaps get out of hand. It's called 'tough love...' Good job Ozzie.

Lip

chisoxmike
07-10-2005, 01:23 AM
I'm starting to hate the "It's Oakland" excuse. No. They're a .500 team we should be beating. No excuses. With the brutal August they have coming up the Sox need to be stacking up wins and getting that divison lead up. I don't want the Twins coming ANYWHERE NEAR the Sox. A lot of people want the Twins to be closer to add pressure to the Sox, I say NO ****ING WAY! We've all seen what the Twins are capable of and I think they're poised for a tear in the 2nd half.

Anyway, the Cleveland series is a big series starting the second half. All you can ask for is a split there. Taking 3 of 4 would be great and could end Clevelands hopes, but losing the series could mean the start of problems.

JB98
07-10-2005, 01:34 AM
1. "It's Oakland" would be a bs excuse, but given that game tone and situation, I'd give Juan the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's just me.

2. I don't think they tried not to win. They got shut down by Zito and a couple of Ozuna errors did them in. At least 50-60 losses are guaranteed, I have yet to see a team go 162-0. Sometimes you lose, even if you have the better team, but I don't think the effort was the problem

Look, I'm aware that we're going to lose 60 games. That cliche is posted on this forum after nearly every loss. The fact that we lost is not the problem. I can take a loss. It's the way that we lost that bothers me. The effort was not there tonight. Ozzie said so in his postgame press conference. Since he's the one in the dugout and since he knows the players better than any of us, I'd say his opinion is the one that counts. The Uribe incident is just a symptom of a poor effort from the team as a whole tonight. Despite a sellout crowd, there was no intensity on the field and no energy in the stands. It sucked. Let's move on to tomorrow.

downstairs
07-10-2005, 10:17 AM
I can understand being annoyed at "dark cloud" fans, especially when they use this board to vent. Yeah, its irrational.

BUT... big but... when it comes to Ozzie managing and the players playing, it would be very easy right now for them to get lazy. Very easy.

We could play 9 games worse than the Twins after the break and still make the playoffs. Heck, maybe play even worse and get a Wild Card bid.

Ozzie has a tough job now... he has to find a way to make these guys play every game as if we were .5 games back from first place. Especially as August/September nears and everyone is thinking towards the playoff games.

So how do you light a fire under a team's butt when there is no rational way they'd ever "diserve" it?

How you you call out a team for lack of effort when they're on pace to win 110, 120 games and not seem totally irrational?

TornLabrum
07-10-2005, 10:28 AM
I dread seeing what the posts here will be like if this losing streak extends to <gasp!> three games!

ode to veeck
07-10-2005, 10:32 AM
Good response Ozzie, reminds me of the fight that got started when Fisk gave what's his name a bunch of crap for doing exactly the same thing.

:ozzie

"No Prisoners!"

SOXSINCE'70
07-10-2005, 10:38 AM
Ozzie wants to nip this in the bud before things perhaps get out of hand. It's called 'tough love...' Good job Ozzie.

Lip

Agreed.This game was brutal.The "It's Oakland" excuse goes only so far.
The team effort sucked tonight.Ozzie called it right.Glad I stopped watching
after Kotsay's 3 run HR.Otherwise,i'd really be ticked off .:angry: :angry:

RedPinStripes
07-10-2005, 10:50 AM
I am all for Uribe, he is a good 9-hole guy and makes terrific plays in the infield while hustling his ass off most of the time...



He makes great plays in the field. He is NOT a good 9 hole guy and he is not a good hitter. He's a free swingin idiot up there half the time.

soxjim
07-10-2005, 11:02 AM
Win today with a good solid effort. Lets go to the all star break come back focused and take it to the tribe.

BainesHOF
07-10-2005, 11:03 AM
But, I can't think of another time this season that a guy didn't run something out or not run hard enough...

I can. Uribe glaringly didn't run out a ball in Tuesday's game. I was disappointed in Uribe then, and also that nothing was done or said about it at the time.

A_ROW33
07-10-2005, 11:09 AM
...But, I can't think of another time this season that a guy didn't run something out or not run hard enough...


How about Konerko in the early innings not running out a tapper out in front of the plate, just standing there and letting kendall tag him?

Jurr
07-10-2005, 11:14 AM
I dread seeing what the posts here will be like if this losing streak extends to <gasp!> three games!
There will probably be "FIRE OZZIE" threads and speculation threads involving who the Sox are going to sell before the deadline. :wink:

RKMeibalane
07-10-2005, 11:50 AM
I dread seeing what the posts here will be like if this losing streak extends to <gasp!> three games!

If the Sox lose today, I may avoid the board until Thursday.

CubKilla
07-10-2005, 11:51 AM
How about Konerko in the early innings not running out a tapper out in front of the plate, just standing there and letting kendall tag him?

Didn't see the game, but Rooney and Farmer said it was quite obvious from their vantage point that Konerko didn't know where the ball was.

oldcomiskey
07-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Well than we have differing opinions. I could care less if he has an attitude, as long as he puts up his numbers makes the plays at short, which he has done. Obviously laziness isn't a good thing, but I don't think that can be changed from a player, but it doesn't concern me from him. He steps up when it's needed, see last night's play where his diving stop saved a run. If Ozzie is going to call out Uribe, then he should smack Timo around for every one handed catch he makes. That makes my heart stop more than Uribe tonight, especially since he does it in big time situations and comes off as laziness to many.

EDIT: Also, it's not a laziness like the Dangelo Jimenez category, who would translate it into his defense and in big situations. Uribe has been money on defense this year, and much better than Manos. He's one of my favorite players to watch. I already talked about the diving stop last night, also, that pickoff at 2nd he had recently, that was awesome.

I don't like laziness, but I realize baseball players aren't robots or machines, I don't expect him to have Pete Rose energy when down by 9 at the end of the game.

I do

oldcomiskey
07-10-2005, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=Rocklive99]Well than we have differing opinions. I could care less if he has an attitude, as long as he puts up his numbers makes the plays at short, which he has done.

What numbers are you referring to
.250 6 HRs and 38 RBI's?

oldcomiskey
07-10-2005, 12:14 PM
I was upset at Konerko too over that

TommyJohn
07-10-2005, 12:30 PM
I dread seeing what the posts here will be like if this losing streak extends to <gasp!> three games!

Never mind these boards. I'm dread seeing the Times and Trib headlines and
recaps.

jerry
07-10-2005, 12:49 PM
Big game today...I hope Freddy has his control early. I will be there and hope to extend my record to 5-0. Uribe is not a problem for the Sox. I like his attitude and he is due to get hot! We have to remember that last year we had Valentin who always made a big error in crucial situations. :hurt Go Frank! The best hitter in White Sox history! :smile:

JB98
07-10-2005, 01:06 PM
I dread seeing what the posts here will be like if this losing streak extends to <gasp!> three games!

Torn, you seem to think this is a "dark cloud" thread, and I don't understand why. I wasn't upset after Friday's loss. Yesterday, I was furious. Losing streaks are going to happen, but last night I saw something from the Sox that I have not seen all season. They accepted defeat and did not play hard until the final out. That's not acceptable with me, and I'm glad to hear our manager isn't happy with it either. I wasted $18 on a ticket last night. If we give a good effort today and lose again, then so be it. But I don't want to see guys giving away at-bats and not running balls out. We have the best record in baseball and a huge lead in our division. As long as the players give the effort they've given all season long, the results are going to continue to be good. However, if they give the effort they gave last night, this division race will get too close for comfort.

FarWestChicago
07-10-2005, 01:11 PM
How about Konerko in the early innings not running out a tapper out in front of the plate, just standing there and letting kendall tag him?Dude, Paulie was running. :redneck

RallyBowl
07-10-2005, 01:33 PM
I was upset at Konerko too over thathe really looked like he didn't know where the ball was at, IMO

Lip Man 1
07-10-2005, 01:36 PM
Fisk had his verbal confrontation (which almost turned into a physical one) with Deion Sanders when he was with the Yankees.

"Run it out you piece of s@#$"

Lip

Vernam
07-10-2005, 01:47 PM
Fisk had his verbal confrontation (which almost turned into a physical one) with Deion Sanders when he was with the Yankees.
I remember that game . . . In TV and radio interviews, Fisk now delights in telling that story -- maybe a little too much for my tastes, even. :rolleyes: Last retelling I heard (on Jim Rome), Pudge said he and Deion later became friends, which I find a little hard to believe.

Anyway, when Uribe posed at homeplate last night, Hawk noted it and seemed about to say something critical, but quickly moved on. Will be interesting to hear him today.

And now completely off-topic, I wonder if anyone else freaked as I did when, in response to an email, Hawk and DJ were parsing the phrases "strap it up," "strap it down," and "strap it on." I like that they get a little zany, but that was really borderline for a family broadcast!

VC

RallyBowl
07-10-2005, 01:53 PM
I remember that game . . . In TV and radio interviews, Fisk now delights in telling that story -- maybe a little too much for my tastes, even. :rolleyes: Last retelling I heard (on Jim Rome), Pudge said he and Deion later became friends, which I find a little hard to believe.

Anyway, when Uribe posed at homeplate last night, Hawk noted it and seemed about to say something critical, but quickly moved on. Will be interesting to hear him today.

And now completely off-topic, I wonder if anyone else freaked as I did when, in response to an email, Hawk and DJ were parsing the phrases "strap it up," "strap it down," and "strap it on." I like that they get a little zany, but that was really borderline for a family broadcast!

VCI heard that! pretty funny stuff, one of the only bright spots of the game if you were watching it on tv

TornLabrum
07-10-2005, 05:30 PM
Never mind these boards. I'm dread seeing the Times and Trib headlines and
recaps.

I don't bother to read those rags. Haven't for years. I wonder if the editors and publishers can guess why.

StillMissOzzie
07-10-2005, 05:54 PM
Dude, Paulie was running. :redneck

How can you tell the diffference?

Or should that NOT have been in teal?

SMO
:D:

tacosalbarojas
07-11-2005, 02:00 PM
I think we should note here as a postscript that Juan went in to Ozzie's office after Saturday's game...the way it was reported it was a kind of..."I better get down to the principal's office before he gets me" thing. And he apologized and said "it's not going to happen again." I loved Ozzie's response: "I know it's not going to happen again." Now, that's what I'm talking about!

fquaye149
07-11-2005, 03:10 PM
Dude, Paulie was running. :redneck

It probably reminded him of that recurring nightmare where the rabid turtles are chasing him.