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View Full Version : *Official* postgame Sox crash and burn yet again against the A's


MarySwiss
07-09-2005, 08:29 PM
Buehrle is still a stud.
So is Garland.
We still lead the majors in wins.
This will (probably) be the LAST TIME we'll have to play these guys this year.

BTW, I sent an e-mail to Hawk and DJ, humbly asking their opinions--they seem to like that--on the Steve Bartman ESPN piece. To the best of my knowledge, it did not get read. However, they did read an e-mail that addressed the Crawford "bush league" comment. Did one of you guys send that one? Kinda sounded like it.

RedPinStripes
07-09-2005, 08:41 PM
I can only think of one thing to say. I hate oakland I really hate that team.

ATXBMX
07-09-2005, 08:42 PM
My random thoughts

-Buehrle is awesome and should start the ASG

-The Pods-Iguchi-Frank combination is awesome

-one utility infielder can't get a bunt down when he needs to, the other can't field a ball at third cleanly.

-our cleanup hitter can't get a hit with runners on.

-kevin walker sucks.

-I get the feeling that Timo and Willie are competing for a job, and Timo is winning, which is surprising.

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 08:42 PM
This will (probably) be the LAST TIME we'll have to play these guys this year.


Until tomorrow anyway.:D:

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 08:47 PM
Ah, time to go to the bar...

leftfieldbleachy
07-09-2005, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by MarySwiss
This will (probably) be the LAST TIME we'll have to play these guys this year.



Until tomorrow anyway.:D:

Just start the All-Star break early and go out for pizza.

PAPChiSox729
07-09-2005, 08:49 PM
I can only think of one thing to say. I hate oakland I really hate that team.

Good thing they moved out of Kansas City.

JUribe1989
07-09-2005, 08:50 PM
Yeah, 20 minutes ago I was moping around my house with an emo look on my face when I decided to turn on my MLB Extra Innings Package. I suggest anyone who has MLB.tv or Extra Innings check out the Twinkies @ KC game because Kansas City just dropped a 6 spot on the Twins and lead them 10-6.

Nard
07-09-2005, 08:51 PM
http://www.ins.itu.edu.tr/rsurban3/images/money_ball.gif

Stroker Ace
07-09-2005, 08:52 PM
NOOOOOO!!!!! Well, lets hope that we can salvage the finale tomorrow. I liked the "Your a believer" vid shown after the game.

Hendu
07-09-2005, 08:53 PM
Nightmare scenario: The A's go on a tear in the 2nd half and win the Wild Card. That would be a very short playoff series for us. This team owns us; they know it, we know it and it's not going to change if we play them in the postseason.

JUribe1989
07-09-2005, 08:53 PM
KC 6TH - David DeJesus singles on a soft line drive to left fielder Shannon Stewart. Angel Berroa scores. Ruben Gotay to 3rd. John Buck to 2nd. MIN 6-5

KC 6TH - Terrence Long singles on a line drive to center fielder Torii Hunter. Ruben Gotay scores. John Buck to 3rd. David DeJesus to 2nd. TIE 6-6

KC 6TH - Mike Sweeney singles on a ground ball to left fielder Shannon Stewart. John Buck scores. David DeJesus scores. Terrence Long to 2nd. KC 8-6

KC 6TH - Emil Brown grounds into double play, shortstop Juan Castro to second baseman Luis Rivas to first baseman Justin Morneau. Terrence Long scores. Mike Sweeney to 3rd. Tony Graffanino out at 2nd. KC 9-6

KC 6TH - Mark Teahen doubles (12) on a line drive to left fielder Shannon Stewart. Mike Sweeney scores. MIN 6-10

We have a chance to keep our 10 game lead!
Jesse Crain gave up 4 er without getting an out.

Viva Medias B's
07-09-2005, 08:54 PM
Ozzie postgame presser on WGN-TV now...

...disappointed with our effort.
...does not know what roster moves will be made yet.
...reiterates disappointment about the lack of effort.

ChiWhiteSox1337
07-09-2005, 08:55 PM
At least this game should've hushed all of the people who were calling for Ozuna to start over Crede at third.

PAPChiSox729
07-09-2005, 08:55 PM
Today's game is just further evidence why we need to trade for Joe Randa. He has a better bat than Crede and plays better defense with Pablo. We would have easily won today if he were here.

FielderJones
07-09-2005, 08:56 PM
All the FOPO can tell us again how he's a servicable replacement for JC :angry:

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 08:57 PM
Ozzie postgame presser on WGN-TV now...

...disappointed with our effort.
...does not know what roster moves will be made yet.
...reiterates disappointment about the lack of effort.

Cut short. Way to go, WGN.

nedlug
07-09-2005, 08:58 PM
At least this game should've hushed all of the people who were calling for Ozuna to start over Crede at third.

The last two games prove why Willie and Pablo are backups...also, they prove why Timo is on this team - barring a trade, he'll be here for the year IMO.

Boy, this 'showcasing' of Jenks/Harris isn't going so well, is it? Sheesh...

Viva Medias B's
07-09-2005, 08:58 PM
Cut short. Way to go, WGN.

I don't think WGN would want Ozzie to preempt the Nine O'Clock News.

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 08:59 PM
I don't think WGN would want Ozzie to preempt the Nine O'Clock News.

Well, at least its the news. Cutting it short for some WB nonsense would be pretty lame.

Frater Perdurabo
07-09-2005, 09:01 PM
If not for Ozuna, the Sox probably would have had a chance to win the game, because Buehrle wouldn't have been chased from the game as early as he was.

I'm pissed that Uribe didn't run out on his fly ball. I'm pissed that Willie Harris is a poor player. I'm pissed that Jenks walked in a run.

Paul Konerko simply is a terrible player. I seriously would entertain any offers for him, including as little as a warm bucket of spit. I'd much rather have Gload and Dye platooning at first. In fact, I'd even rather have Joe Borchard on the roster instead of "Old Faithful" Konerko. No teal, either.

That being said, I'll close with some positives.

I am so very glad the Sox have three All-Star caliber starting pitchers, even if only two of them made the team.

I'm so pleased with Podsednik and Iguchi. Tonight's double steal was a thing of beauty.

I'm so happy Frank is back. Although he didn't have a great game tonight, he's going to play a huge role in the second half.

Tragg
07-09-2005, 09:01 PM
it was bound to happen. No use being a chicken-little about it.

The timing's pretty good, though; we got Tampa Bay (they are so bad, we could beat them during a slump) for 3 games and now we have the all star break coming up. So for what I see as an 8 game slump, we're 4-4....not too bad.

My opinion of the team remains the same. We are very good, will make the playoffs, and will have a good shot in the playoffs. We have offensive problems at C, 3B, SS; we have 3 good starting pitchers, but perhaps not the best 3 or 4 that will be in the playoffs; we have a 1B whose superficial stats may suggest production greater than reality. None of those are real "weaknesses" re getting to the playoffs - we aren't terrible in most of those areas; but in terms of winning a WS, they may not be up to par

Because we have 3-5 weaknesses (but not severe), I don't think one or two blockbuster deals will make that much of a difference in our chances this year. On the downside, those deals could seriously harm our ability to be in even a better position at this time of future seasons. I suggest judicious retooling before the deadline. Dealing Konerko, as scary and silly as it sounds, makes more sense to me, than sending away 3-4 top prospects and taking on unweildy burdensome new contracts, that will retard our ability to take the next step next off-season.

So I would be, as always, cautious and judicious with deadline trades. Pickup some players, but don't overpay. But that's just me.

Nard
07-09-2005, 09:01 PM
Boy, this 'showcasing' of Jenks/Harris isn't going so well, is it? Sheesh...

Seriously. Of all the series he could've chosen to try and start Willie's sorry ass, it has to be a Moneyball series.

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 09:03 PM
3 game losing streak. Longest losing streak in the history of baseball.

Relax. All is well...

White Sox Josh
07-09-2005, 09:03 PM
If not for Ozuna, the Sox probably would have had a chance to win the game, because Buehrle wouldn't have been chased from the game as early as he was.

I'm pissed that Uribe didn't run out on his fly ball. I'm pissed that Willie Harris is a poor player. I'm pissed that Jenks walked in a run.

Paul Konerko simply is a terrible player. I seriously would entertain any offers for him, including as little as a warm bucket of spit. I'd much rather have Gload and Dye platooning at first. In fact, I'd even rather have Joe Borchard on the roster instead of "Old Faithful" Konerko. No teal, either.

That being said, I'll close with some positives.

I am so very glad the Sox have three All-Star caliber starting pitchers, even if only two of them made the team.

I'm so pleased with Podsednik and Iguchi. Tonight's double steal was a thing of beauty.

I'm so happy Frank is back. Although he didn't have a great game tonight, he's going to play a huge role in the second half.Harris caust shingo a run and actually made the game officially out of reach. F Willie. Please send him down.

MUsoxfan
07-09-2005, 09:04 PM
We're not in a slump. We're a team that has problems beating Oakland. Thankfully, after tomorrow Oakland is no longer a factor.

Nard
07-09-2005, 09:04 PM
Huh? It's not a slump. It's Oakland.

NSSoxFan
07-09-2005, 09:04 PM
Huh? It's not a slump. It's Oakland.

Pretty much sums it up!

MUsoxfan
07-09-2005, 09:05 PM
3 game losing streak.


Only 2....however it does seem like 3. Oh well

chitownhawkfan
07-09-2005, 09:05 PM
it was bound to happen. No use being a chicken-little about it.

The timing's pretty good, though; we got Tampa Bay (they are so bad, we could beat them during a slump) for 3 games and now we have the all star break coming up. So for what I see as an 8 game slump, we're 4-4....not too bad.

My opinion of the team remains the same. We are very good, will make the playoffs, and will have a good shot in the playoffs. We have offensive problems at C, 3B, SS; we have 3 good starting pitchers, but perhaps not the best 3 or 4 that will be in the playoffs; we have a 1B whose superficial stats may suggest production greater than reality. None of those are real "weaknesses" re getting to the playoffs - we aren't terrible in most of those areas; but in terms of winning a WS, they may not be up to par

Because we have 3-5 weaknesses (but not severe), I don't think one or two blockbuster deals will make that much of a difference in our chances this year. On the downside, those deals could seriously harm our ability to be in even a better position at this time of future seasons. I suggest judicious retooling before the deadline. Dealing Konerko, as scary and silly as it sounds, makes more sense to me, than sending away 3-4 top prospects and taking on unweildy burdensome new contracts, that will retard our ability to take the next step next off-season.

So I would be, as always, cautious and judicious with deadline trades. Pickup some players, but don't overpay. But that's just me.


:chickenlittle

Lets take it easy, barring a miracle Sunday will be the last time we see these moneyball clowns all season
:andy
Damn do I hate moneyball

RedPinStripes
07-09-2005, 09:06 PM
:pee http://www.ins.itu.edu.tr/rsurban3/images/money_ball.gif

Yup.

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 09:07 PM
I'm thinking the All-Star break is going to be great for the team. They looked "tired" fairly often in the last couple games. It's almost like they are seniors in high school and winter break is only a few days away. They seem to be simply "going through the motions". I have a weird feeling that this team is going to hit the ground running after the break. Look for great things. Just a hunch...

itsnotrequired
07-09-2005, 09:07 PM
Only 2....however it does seem like 3. Oh well

Whoops.:redface:

ATXBMX
07-09-2005, 09:09 PM
If not for Ozuna, the Sox probably would have had a chance to win the game, because Buehrle wouldn't have been chased from the game as early as he was.

I'm pissed that Uribe didn't run out on his fly ball. I'm pissed that Willie Harris is a poor player. I'm pissed that Jenks walked in a run.

Paul Konerko simply is a terrible player. I seriously would entertain any offers for him, including as little as a warm bucket of spit. I'd much rather have Gload and Dye platooning at first. In fact, I'd even rather have Joe Borchard on the roster instead of "Old Faithful" Konerko. No teal, either.



Everett, Thomas, and Dye have been more consistent than Konerko. The problem with trading him is that we'd lose valuable insurance should one of those other guys get hurt. I've been frustrated with Konerko too, he can't seem to drive in runs without a longball. We need to at least move him out of the cleanup spot.

This series has exposed a weakness. We need a reliable utility infielder. One that is a decent situational hitter, that can also handle third base respectably. Right now we have two backup infielders that can only do one or the other, and with Gload coming off the dl, we essentially lose a roster spot for one of them.

You don't really want Borchard. He's been hot lately, but we can find someone else to waste a roster spot on.

Lip Man 1
07-09-2005, 09:10 PM
It hasn't happened often fortunately, but this may have been the stinker game of the year. Ozzie's right, there was little effort tonight, perhaps they are envisioning that three day break a tad early.

Just my opinion but I think tomorrow's game is important. They need a solid effort. I wouldn't want to go into the break on a downer of three lost games at home (I speaking of the players themselves mentally...) I think Ozzie's going to have a few words with them either later today or tomorrow before game time.

Also keep in mind the Sox have the chance to end any hopes Cleveland may still have in the division by playing well starting next Thursday, the opposite is also true. If they continue to play poorly it could give the Tribe hope as well as slice some of the gap off the defecit.

Let's just beat these s#$%^ tomorrow for a change and enjoy the three days.

And I agree with the Harris comments. Tomorrow may be his last day in a Sox uniform along with the human toilet Kevin Walker.

Lip

PAPChiSox729
07-09-2005, 09:12 PM
Let's just beat these s#$%^ tomorrow for a change and enjoy the three days.

Lip

I like that idea. They looked pretty dead tonight. Even a heart-filled loss would be more encouraging than the poor effort I saw today. Let's avoid the sweep!

BNLSox
07-09-2005, 09:16 PM
Yes, on the positive side, our starting pitching and top of the order are still giving this team a chance to win.

Its sad to say but I really missed maggs tonight which iguchi on 3rd and PK at the plate.

Oh well.... F him!

TimChamp
07-09-2005, 09:18 PM
Hey guys, just wondered if anybody else noticed this, but I think as of right now, offense is our biggest problem. Right now, I'm reminded of the 2000 team BUT with a LOT less power and much BETTER pitching. On the other hand, if you guys remember, going into the 2000 playoffs everybody worried about our pitching and yet when it got down to it, our mighty offense ran into tough Seattle pitching and the good pitching won out over the good hitting. Furthermore, all of our starting pitchers that everybody worried about in that series had quality starts.

Anyway, I really think our offense will be the problem when get into the playoffs. So far, from what I've seen, our team has not done well against pitchers that can actually pitch (i.e. Oakland's staff, Prior, Zambrano, etc.). I'm so glad right now that Oakland is not in the playoffs or I see some serious trouble in the first round if they make the wild card.

What do you guys think?

--Champ out

Tragg
07-09-2005, 09:20 PM
:chickenlittle

Lets take it easy, barring a miracle Sunday will be the last time we see these moneyball clowns all season
:andy
Damn do I hate moneyball

Actually I specifically said not to be chicken littles about things, but I don't want to deprive you of your cute little icons. Slumps happen - they aren't anything to freak about - and we will slump, whether or not people agree with me that we're in one right now.

veeter
07-09-2005, 09:21 PM
Freddy's going to prove that he's a stopper tomorrow. What are you going to do, they lose two in a row. Tomorrow they'll shove those white shoes up the A's butts. Stop by parking lot B or C tomorrow for a bloody mary on me.

Mohoney
07-09-2005, 09:22 PM
What is Zito's career record against us?

The guy murders us.

Frater Perdurabo
07-09-2005, 09:23 PM
Dealing Konerko, as scary and silly as it sounds, makes more sense to me, than sending away 3-4 top prospects and taking on unweildy burdensome new contracts, that will retard our ability to take the next step next off-season.

I think this is an excellent plan. Houston's now a buyer who needs a bat, so Konerko would fit well there, especially since Berkman has LF experience and could move there, and Konerko could feast on NL pitching and the short left field fence at Minute Maid. Whatever Houston sends in return to the Sox could be shipped to the Pirates for Mark Redman (4-8, 3.76 ERA), who has a good deal of AL pitching experience, a good ERA at the Cell (2.57) during the past three seasons (yes, it was against Sox hitters), a 1.84 G/F ratio and a 1.77 K/BB ratio this year.

Then all the Sox would need is to trade a few more prospects for a LH bat like Aubrey Huff.

LuvSox
07-09-2005, 09:23 PM
Frank puts on his mad face after a K tonight:

Frater Perdurabo
07-09-2005, 09:26 PM
Frank puts on his mad face after a K tonight:

That's the kind of pissed off emotion I like to see out of a team when they lay an egg like they did tonight, unlike the "Hang Dog" routine Konerko has mastered after so many 0-4 nights in his storied career..

Lip Man 1
07-09-2005, 09:37 PM
Someone asked what Zito's record now is against the Sox...it's 7-2.

Lip

lostletters
07-09-2005, 09:37 PM
It's Oakland. Oh well. It is highly unlikely we will see them in the playoffs.

Plus losing this series may have actually been good for the sox. It may have shown a weekness, but it also may have also been what the sox needed to prevent them from falling into a real slump. Remember whenever we lose a couple games in a row the Sox step it up a notch and go on some type of tear.

I am not a dark clouds person. I do not think this shows anything regarding later in the season. It's Oakland...thats it. Even great teams have one or two teams that they struggle against.

Also if people think this is a west coast thing...its not. We are 4-3 against the Angels and thier great pitching.

This is a purely Oakland and Oakland only situation. They are that one average team that is owning the White Sox. It was going to be some team.

Taking how dominating we have been against almost every other team...we were bound to have at least one thorn in our side. Luckily it is a team we are probably not going to see in the playoffs.

MarySwiss
07-09-2005, 09:39 PM
I think this is an excellent plan. Houston's now a buyer who needs a bat, so Konerko would fit well there, especially since Berkman has LF experience and could move there, and Konerko could feast on NL pitching and the short left field fence at Minute Maid. Whatever Houston sends in return to the Sox could be shipped to the Pirates for Mark Redman (4-8, 3.76 ERA), who has a good deal of AL pitching experience, a good ERA at the Cell (2.57) during the past three seasons (yes, it was against Sox hitters), a 1.84 G/F ratio and a 1.77 K/BB ratio this year.

Then all the Sox would need is to trade a few more prospects for a LH bat like Aubrey Huff.

"Whatever Houston sends in return to the Sox" for Paul Konerko? "Then all the Sox would need is to trade a few more prospects for a LH bat like Aubrey Huff?"

"Whatever Houston sends?" "Aubrey Huff?" And--I forget--why exactly are we helping out Houston? Yikes! I know that true Sox fans have the best wishes of the team at heart, but you guys really scare me sometimes. Can we please stop trying so hard to fix what ain't broke?

lostletters
07-09-2005, 09:47 PM
Hey guys, just wondered if anybody else noticed this, but I think as of right now, offense is our biggest problem. Right now, I'm reminded of the 2000 team BUT with a LOT less power and much BETTER pitching. On the other hand, if you guys remember, going into the 2000 playoffs everybody worried about our pitching and yet when it got down to it, our mighty offense ran into tough Seattle pitching and the good pitching won out over the good hitting. Furthermore, all of our starting pitchers that everybody worried about in that series had quality starts.

Anyway, I really think our offense will be the problem when get into the playoffs. So far, from what I've seen, our team has not done well against pitchers that can actually pitch (i.e. Oakland's staff, Prior, Zambrano, etc.). I'm so glad right now that Oakland is not in the playoffs or I see some serious trouble in the first round if they make the wild card.

What do you guys think?

--Champ out



We have actually done well against other high quality pitching staffs (Cleveland, Detriot, Twins, and the Angels).

I think this is a problem almost exclusive to Oakland. I think the only pitcher that consistanly owns the White Sox is Barry Zito.

I just think Oakland as a team matches up well against the Sox. Luckily they are pretty unique team in Major League baseball in both the American and National League.

ATXBMX
07-09-2005, 09:51 PM
"Whatever Houston sends in return to the Sox" for Paul Konerko? "Then all the Sox would need is to trade a few more prospects for a LH bat like Aubrey Huff?"

"Whatever Houston sends?" "Aubrey Huff?" And--I forget--why exactly are we helping out Houston? Yikes! I know that true Sox fans have the best wishes of the team at heart, but you guys really scare me sometimes. Can we please stop trying so hard to fix what ain't broke?

Roy Oswalt!?

bluestar
07-09-2005, 09:55 PM
I'm curious...is it possible that the A's staff is picking up on something that is tipping them to the pitches being thrown by the Sox pitchers? I only question this because it seems almost uncanny how they are all over anything in the strike zone. I first noticed it in Oakland, and it seems to have carried over to Chicago. They (the A's) seem to know exactly what's coming most of the time.

This is probably just me looking for any excuse to explain these losses, but this Oakland situation is getting a little ridiculous. It isn't like they are a team that dominates others.

Jurr
07-09-2005, 09:55 PM
Hey guys, just wondered if anybody else noticed this, but I think as of right now, offense is our biggest problem. Right now, I'm reminded of the 2000 team BUT with a LOT less power and much BETTER pitching. On the other hand, if you guys remember, going into the 2000 playoffs everybody worried about our pitching and yet when it got down to it, our mighty offense ran into tough Seattle pitching and the good pitching won out over the good hitting. Furthermore, all of our starting pitchers that everybody worried about in that series had quality starts.

Anyway, I really think our offense will be the problem when get into the playoffs. So far, from what I've seen, our team has not done well against pitchers that can actually pitch (i.e. Oakland's staff, Prior, Zambrano, etc.). I'm so glad right now that Oakland is not in the playoffs or I see some serious trouble in the first round if they make the wild card.

What do you guys think?

--Champ out
Yeah..they've really had a problem against great pitchers all year. Whatever.
They're 29 games over .500 this year, and they've scored the runs they've needed to against most of the teams they've played. Offense, pitching, defense, whatever. They've done what they've needed to win. Against Oakland, they're snakebitten. Errors, bad situational hitting, mistake pitching...it's all happening against one team consistently. Well, that problem ends in one day. Don't make a blanket statement of the team's body of work because they suck against one team. Wow.

JRIG
07-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Ozuna was horrid at third base tonight. The two errors, plus at least three other balls he should have got to. One of the worst defensive performances I've ever seen in person. (Though Milton Bradley was awful in center for the Indians a few years back too)

Ozuna should not play third again this year.

Walker should not pitch again this year.

bluestar
07-09-2005, 09:57 PM
Walker should not pitch again this year.

Walker should never have pitched for the Sox in the first place.

White Sox Josh
07-09-2005, 09:57 PM
Ozuna was horrid at third base tonight. The two errors, plus at least three other balls he should have got to. One of the worst defensive performances I've ever seen in person. (Though Milton Bradley was awful in center for the Indians a few years back too)

Ozuna should not play third again this year.

Walker should not pitch again this year.The cuts are obvious now:
Jenks
Harris
Walker

Lip Man 1
07-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Bluestar:

AGREED!

Lip

JRIG
07-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Walker should never have pitched for the Sox in the first place.

Well, yes. :D:

But it's too late to fix that now.

Jurr
07-09-2005, 09:59 PM
I'm curious...is it possible that the A's staff is picking up on something that is tipping them to the pitches being thrown by the Sox pitchers? I only question this because it seems almost uncanny how they are all over anything in the strike zone. I first noticed it in Oakland, and it seems to have carried over to Chicago. They (the A's) seem to know exactly what's coming most of the time.

This is probably just me looking for any excuse to explain these losses, but this Oakland situation is getting a little ridiculous. It isn't like they are a team that dominates others.
They are trained from day one to be extremely selective. They hit what they need to hit and lay off the other crap. When a team sees enough pitches, they can find what they need to find in a pitcher's repertoire to hit. It does work, and it works a great deal against the Sox. The A's do not really have a ton of talent, and it's a miracle they win as much as they do. Part of that is because of their selectivity. I'm not a FOBB, but that little selectivity philosophy does help. Paulie could've tied the game up with a sac fly if he would take a page from guys like Swisher, Crosby, and the lot.

Jurr
07-09-2005, 10:00 PM
My random thoughts

-Buehrle is awesome and should start the ASG

-The Pods-Iguchi-Frank combination is awesome

-one utility infielder can't get a bunt down when he needs to, the other can't field a ball at third cleanly.

-our cleanup hitter can't get a hit with runners on.

-kevin walker sucks.

-I get the feeling that Timo and Willie are competing for a job, and Timo is winning, which is surprising.
Yes, things are fine on the south side. It's our 7th 2 game or more losing streak of the year, and things have rebounded each time. No problems!

Chisox003
07-09-2005, 10:05 PM
"Whatever Houston sends in return to the Sox" for Paul Konerko? "Then all the Sox would need is to trade a few more prospects for a LH bat like Aubrey Huff?"

"Whatever Houston sends?" "Aubrey Huff?" And--I forget--why exactly are we helping out Houston? Yikes! I know that true Sox fans have the best wishes of the team at heart, but you guys really scare me sometimes. Can we please stop trying so hard to fix what ain't broke?

Interesting concept, but most folks here will pass right over it and click the "New Thread" button, on their way to a "TRADE KONERKO, CREDE" post

In a perfect WSI world, stupid people with stupid trade suggestions that make new threads/posts over and over and over and over about the same **** would get a nice, loooong vacation and a free trip the roadhouse

In other words, I agree with you :nod:

bluestar
07-09-2005, 10:07 PM
They are trained from day one to be extremely selective. They hit what they need to hit and lay off the other crap. When a team sees enough pitches, they can find what they need to find in a pitcher's repertoire to hit. It does work, and it works a great deal against the Sox. The A's do not really have a ton of talent, and it's a miracle they win as much as they do. Part of that is because of their selectivity. I'm not a FOBB, but that little selectivity philosophy does help. Paulie could've tied the game up with a sac fly if he would take a page from guys like Swisher, Crosby, and the lot.

I know about their patience and selectivity, but this seems to go beyond just that. I mean, if they are such a good, selective hitting team, why don't they have the best record in baseball? How did Toronto beat them two out of three games? Their selectivity seems to be much, much better against the Sox than any other team.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with confidence. As others have pointed out, they know they own the Sox.

It seems like every big hit they have had against the Sox this year has been by a guy with a 1-2 or 0-2 count. No count is safe against them.

Jurr
07-09-2005, 10:11 PM
I know about their patience and selectivity, but this seems to go beyond just that. I mean, if they are such a good, selective hitting team, why don't they have the best record in baseball? How did Toronto beat them two out of three games? Their selectivity seems to be much, much better against the Sox than any other team.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with confidence. As others have pointed out, they know they own the Sox.

It seems like every big hit they have had against the Sox this year has been by a guy with a 1-2 or 0-2 count. No count is safe against them.
Yeah...it's all about confidence. They have a game plan against Sox pitchers, they're confident about their plans, and they sit on something they want and drive it. Look at the bomb tonight off of Buehrle. Kotsay was waiting for a changeup and killed it. He was sitting dead red on a change. These guys have a plan, but they haven't had the talent or confidence to execute it all the time. They're confident now, and they're beating EVERYBODY.

The Sox play with confidence, too, but they press like crazy against Oakland. Look at the game in Oakland where Buehrle had the error. It's been like that all year against Oakland, and it's been like that since 2001. Funny how that works.

lostletters
07-09-2005, 10:13 PM
I know about their patience and selectivity, but this seems to go beyond just that. I mean, if they are such a good, selective hitting team, why don't they have the best record in baseball? How did Toronto beat them two out of three games? Their selectivity seems to be much, much better against the Sox than any other team.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with confidence. As others have pointed out, they know they own the Sox.

It seems like every big hit they have had against the Sox this year has been by a guy with a 1-2 or 0-2 count. No count is safe against them.


That is probably it. The Sox have very little confidence against the A's and the A's know they own the White Sox.

The Sox on the other hand feel they can beat any OTHER team in baseball any given night.

The Sox finally kicked the Tigers, Twins and Angels problems this year. Maybe they will kick the oakland problems next year.

MarySwiss
07-09-2005, 10:15 PM
I know that true Sox fans have the best wishes of the team at heart, but you guys really scare me sometimes. Can we please stop trying so hard to fix what ain't broke?

[/size]

Interesting concept, but most folks here will pass right over it and click the "New Thread" button, on their way to a "TRADE KONERKO, CREDE" post

In a perfect WSI world, stupid people with stupid trade suggestions that make new threads/posts over and over and over and over about the same **** would get a nice, loooong vacation and a free trip the roadhouse

In other words, I agree with you :nod:

'preciate the support, Chisox003, but I still think us Sox fans need to do our best Don Quixote impressions at all times. Otherwise, what separates us from Cubs fans?

On that note, I'm going to get another beverage (it's a mere 8:13 in Arizona), and read everything I can find about the Twinks' loss!

G'night, all!

jabrch
07-09-2005, 10:17 PM
It seemed like nobody today wanted base hits - and thus almost nobody got them. Everyone was swinging for the fences.

Not good...

Not the end of the world - just not good.

TimChamp
07-09-2005, 10:23 PM
Don't make a blanket statement of the team's body of work because they suck against one team. Wow.

I'm not making a blanket statement, I'm just looking at the numbers. We're ranked 11th out of 14 teams in the AL in team BA (at .262). While I can't seem to find our BA with RISP. I can estimate that we are near the bottom of the league in that category as well. You can say we have the best record all you want, but that doesn't guarantee you're going to do well in the playoffs (see 2001 Mariners).

I'm just saying, if we need an upgrade anywhere, its our offense.


--Champ out

Sad
07-09-2005, 10:27 PM
yeah... just walked in the door after driving home (usually Im still on the train)


pretty blah night save for that double steal... oh well
hopefully back to the 30-over mark tomorrow

dunno what it is w/ Oakland that makes em lay down time & time again... :angry: :mad:

pczarapa
07-09-2005, 10:28 PM
Why can't we beat this team, it's really weird - they are not all that good. This is they type of crap that gives me nightmares. We'll go 110 - 52 and then get swept by some freaky team that we can't beat because the gypsy crystal ball reader didn't like the matchup.

jabrch
07-09-2005, 10:29 PM
yeah... just walked in the door after driving home (usually Im still on the train)


pretty blah night save for that double steal... oh well
hopefully back to the 30-over mark tomorrow

dunno what it is w/ Oakland that makes em lay down time & time again... :angry: :mad:

me too...I don't understand why the approach to the plate is sometimes so different from day to day.

StockdaleForVeep
07-09-2005, 10:34 PM
There are three things you need for a world series

Good relief
defense up the middle
timely hitting

We have near locks on the last 2, relief only problem is viz

White Sox Josh
07-09-2005, 10:35 PM
SCREW the A's. I'm so friggin tired of them. Every single one of thos ****ers. Down to the goddamn clubhouse manager. Thank God we won't see these *******s in the playoffs. It would be brutal.

Now i feel much better

psyclonis
07-09-2005, 10:38 PM
Guys relax, theres a 3day break coming up. The White Sox could care less about these games. They're just playing through... simple as that.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-09-2005, 10:39 PM
some of those iguchi swings burned my eyes

PicktoCLick72
07-09-2005, 10:39 PM
Went to the game tonight:

Negatives
- Ozuna (should only play 3rd in emergency.
- Walker (should only pitch in a Tball game)
- Widger, Konerko, Rownad (Looked bad at the plate)
- Jenks (He'll be fine but you could see he was nervous)

Positives
-Burly Mon (Actually pitched very well but got no help from offense or defense)
-Pods and Iguchi (They are awesome at the top of the lineup)
-Tim Raines (Gave my little brother a baseball)
-Fireworks show was pretty good
-Twins lose (The vaunted Royals offense got to them today.)

ATXBMX
07-09-2005, 10:40 PM
I know that true Sox fans have the best wishes of the team at heart, but you guys really scare me sometimes. Can we please stop trying so hard to fix what ain't broke?

What scares me is sox fans that are afraid of change. Paul Konerko is NOT Albert Pujols.

Our cleanup hitter is hitting only .222 with runners in scoring position. If we weren't 57-28, more people would be looking for an alternative. Paul is swinging for the fences. Of his 54 RBI, only 21 have come without the help of a homerun, meaning more than half of his run production hinges on his ability to hit a homerun.

What's worse, he's hitting only .181 against left-handed pitching. .181 on a team that hits better than .300 against lefties. He's slugging .375 against lefties too. Podsednik is slugging .344 against lefties. Ross Gload hit over .300 against lefties last year.

Konerko is just a one tool talent, and he probably won't be back next year. His defense has improved over the years, but he's no gold glover. He's being selfish at the plate, and talks bad about his teammates in public. I say we should fix this.

Cowhead418
07-09-2005, 10:45 PM
Oakland just moved to the top of my hate list. I never really hated them before but this situation is just ridiculous.:angry: I'm cheering for the Angels and Rangers and Orioles to win every day (except when they play us of course) so Oakland misses the playoffs. It seems like for every team there is another team that absolutely owns them and for us it is Oakland. Look at the Devil Rays and the Yankees. Tampa Bay OWNS New York this year. It just doesn't make any sense.

StockdaleForVeep
07-09-2005, 10:47 PM
Went to the game tonight:

Negatives
- Ozuna (should only play 3rd in emergency.
- Walker (should only pitch in a Tball game)
- Widger, Konerko, Rownad (Looked bad at the plate)
- Jenks (He'll be fine but you could see he was nervous)

Positives
-Burly Mon (Actually pitched very well but got no help from offense or defense)
-Pods and Iguchi (They are awesome at the top of the lineup)
-Tim Raines (Gave my little brother a baseball)
-Fireworks show was pretty good
-Twins lose (The vaunted Royals offense got to them today.)

I wouldnt call walker\jenks negs because they are callups, takes time for them, given time they will settle in, i agree with ozuna tho, his bad games outweigh his good games.

Hey, everyone needs an off day, we werent startin our 100% good lineup, i'll take the loss if our team is fresh and goes on another win streak.

iamkoza
07-09-2005, 10:50 PM
poor pa-blow ozuna, could that be a reason he was stuck in the minors? :)

soltrain21
07-09-2005, 10:51 PM
SCREW the A's. I'm so friggin tired of them. Every single one of thos ****ers. Down to the goddamn clubhouse manager. Thank God we won't see these *******s in the playoffs. It would be brutal.

Now i feel much better


Yes, they REALLY deserved that.

ATXBMX
07-09-2005, 11:08 PM
Player------VS. Left--------VS. Right---------RISP
Konerko----.181------------.255-------------.222
Dye--------.303------------.287-------------.281
Everett-----.351-----------.231--------------.339
Rowand-----.333-----------.249--------------.328
Crede-------.281-----------.232--------------.283
Uribe--------.348-----------.212--------------.265
Iguchi-------.275-----------.285--------------.239
Pierzynski---.267------------.242--------------.220
Thomas------.286-----------.208--------------.267
Podsednik----.328-----------.283--------------.316

The only guy worse than Konerko with RISP is Pierzynski. Konerko needs to take a trip down the order. He's been 4th all year, and he hasn't worked out of his slump. He shouldn't be in the lineup against lefties either, .181 is just pathetic.

Bisco Stu
07-09-2005, 11:16 PM
In case this hasn't been posted, Zito is now 4-0 lifetime at USCF

A's are the best team in the AL Central.

CHISOXFAN13
07-09-2005, 11:36 PM
I'm starting to wonder why Rowand, who I am a fan of, is getting a free pass. His numbers, both power and average are way down, yet it seems the theme of this season is to berate Konerko and Crede whenever the offense struggles.

I'm also trying to figure out why Ozzie believes Rowand is a No. 5 hitter.

Chisox003
07-09-2005, 11:41 PM
****! 2 in a row?!?!

:chickenlittle

:rolleyes:

compy75
07-09-2005, 11:42 PM
I'm starting to wonder why Rowand, who I am a fan of, is getting a free pass. His numbers, both power and average are way down, yet it seems the theme of this season is to berate Konerko and Crede whenever the offense struggles.

I'm also trying to figure out why Ozzie believes Rowand is a No. 5 hitter.

Very interesting point, it's funny it seems guys like that tend to fall under the radar. Reality is he is having a VERY poor season, I mean he's on pace for .270 with 10 hr and what's amazing is you still have people saying bat him 3rd....Dye's lack of respect in the order is staggering...

CHISOXFAN13
07-09-2005, 11:46 PM
Very interesting point, it's funny it seems guys like that tend to fall under the radar. Reality is he is having a VERY poor season, I mean he's on pace for .270 with 10 hr and what's amazing is you still have people saying bat him 3rd....Dye's lack of respect in the order is staggering...

After giving it some more thought, there really isn't anyone else capable of taking the No. 5 slot right now because Dye's numbers in the six-hole are staggering.

Maybe if Konerko started hitting, Rowand could get on a bit of a roll himself since he is hitting the ball well with RISP.

I'm just so frustrated that a lesser team comes into Chicago and beats the Sox brains in.

TimChamp
07-10-2005, 12:01 AM
Player------VS. Left--------VS. Right---------RISP
Everett-----.351-----------.231--------------.339


The only guy worse than Konerko with RISP is Pierzynski. Konerko needs to take a trip down the order. He's been 4th all year, and he hasn't worked out of his slump. He shouldn't be in the lineup against lefties either, .181 is just pathetic.


That is exactly why Everett needs to be in the line-up everyday...well, at least against lefties (like Zito tonight). It would be so much easier to sit Paulie against lefties if Frank could play 1st base this year.

--Champ out

NealCotts4Life
07-10-2005, 12:15 AM
I wouldn't risk playing Frank at 1st. He can barley run as it is now.

chisoxmike
07-10-2005, 12:16 AM
Bah... I just got home from the game...the only redeeming thing from the game was that the Twins lost and the fireworks were pretty good. Man, I went last night, and I've had tickets for tomorrows game for quite some time now, I sure hope I don't witness a three game sweep first hand.

Kevin Walker sucks.

JB98
07-10-2005, 12:22 AM
Other than the postgame fireworks, tonight's game was a waste of money. My other observations:

1. Get well soon, Joe Crede. Buerhle minimized the damage from the first Ozuna error, but the second one hurt us. Mark made a bad pitch to Kotsay, but Kotsay never comes to the plate in that inning if Ozuna doesn't make the error. Buerhle and Garland pitch to contact, and we have to catch those grounders.

2. I'd be very tempted to juggle the order tomorrow. Everyone wants to string Konerko up by his nuts, and rightfully so. However, Rowand looks terrible as well. Those at-bats in the sixth inning were just PATHETIC. After the double steal and the sacrifice fly by Frank, we were poised to seize the momentum. The pop out by Paulie and the strikeout by A-Row KILLED US. After that missed opportunity, you could sense impending doom.

3. Jenks looked more nervous on the mound tonight than he did in his first outing Wednesday. I don't understand that. We were trailing 5-1, and there was no pressure on him. That kid needs to relax and throw it over the plate. His stuff is good.

4. I hope our players are as sick of this Oakland nonsense as I am. Let's use this debacle as motivation to kick some ass tomorrow. The effort tonight was just unacceptable. I'm glad we have one more game to try to wash this bad taste away before the three-day break.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2005, 12:25 AM
Updates:

Crede's out until Thursday at least due to a bad back. MRI negative, story in Tribune.

JB98: Jenks will be gone Thursday unless something happens to Marte at Charlotte and Walker will be released because Hernandez is coming back on the 18th.

Lip

Mr. White Sox
07-10-2005, 12:26 AM
3. Jenks looked more nervous on the mound tonight than he did in his first outing Wednesday. I don't understand that. We were trailing 5-1, and there was no pressure on him. That kid needs to relax and throw it over the plate. His stuff is good.


I agree with every other point but this one. I don't think he looked nervous at all; I think the Oakland hitters, collectively, are much more patient than the AAAA ballclub that is Tampa Bay. His problem was hidden against TB; he threw a lot of pitches out of the zone against TB, and a lot against OAK. It's amazing what patience at the plate does against a pitcher like Jenks. He needs more time to hone his fastball...his curve is awesome but he couldn't use it due to the counts. A cutter/2-seamer could prove useful as well, as his fastball is straight as an arrow. Once he has better control, he can become a Gagne-like closer in terms of stuff; hopefully he'll get it together...he has plenty of time.

JB98
07-10-2005, 12:44 AM
I agree with every other point but this one. I don't think he looked nervous at all; I think the Oakland hitters, collectively, are much more patient than the AAAA ballclub that is Tampa Bay. His problem was hidden against TB; he threw a lot of pitches out of the zone against TB, and a lot against OAK. It's amazing what patience at the plate does against a pitcher like Jenks. He needs more time to hone his fastball...his curve is awesome but he couldn't use it due to the counts. A cutter/2-seamer could prove useful as well, as his fastball is straight as an arrow. Once he has better control, he can become a Gagne-like closer in terms of stuff; hopefully he'll get it together...he has plenty of time.

His fastball might be straight, but he can get away with that at times because it's 98 mph. I don't know. I just thought he was extremely wild, and I wonder if it was because it was his first time pitching in front of 38,000 people. Has control been a problem for him down at Birmingham?

Lip, I have to think Walker will be gone Thursday when Marte comes back. They'll probably keep Jenks around until a week from Monday, just to have an extra bullpen arm. He'll be gone when El Duque is activated. Or do you think they'll activate both Marte and Gload on Thursday and send out Walker and Jenks? I suppose that's another possibility. Then they'd have to decide the whole Harris/Perez debate when El Duque is ready to go.

Mr. White Sox
07-10-2005, 12:55 AM
His fastball might be straight, but he can get away with that at times because it's 98 mph. I don't know. I just thought he was extremely wild, and I wonder if it was because it was his first time pitching in front of 38,000 people. Has control been a problem for him down at Birmingham?

Lip, I have to think Walker will be gone Thursday when Marte comes back. They'll probably keep Jenks around until a week from Monday, just to have an extra bullpen arm. He'll be gone when El Duque is activated. Or do you think they'll activate both Marte and Gload on Thursday and send out Walker and Jenks? I suppose that's another possibility. Then they'd have to decide the whole Harris/Perez debate when El Duque is ready to go.

Here were Jenks' stats in B'ham: Stats. (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Bobby%20Jenks&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=408057)
I suppose the BB are slightly high, but it didn't look like anything major. He probably was nervous, but he may just have shaky control this early in his career...I, too, don't know. I just hope he isn't like Kyle Farnsworth when he was with the cubs; they certainly look similar in terms of pitching styles.

Walker's gone tomorrow after the game probably, as Ozzie said he'd like to make his major roster moves tomorrow; he is going out of town. I have no clue who KW will send down: Harris or Perez. Harris is more versatile defensively but has shown he's not a threat with the bat and belongs only in the #8/#9/#1(occasionally) spot. Perez has more pop offensively but has no import defensively except at OF, which is currently in surplus on this ballclub. Jenks will be sent down the day El Duque is needed; I'm sure they'll keep him as long as they can otherwise.

TheOldRoman
07-10-2005, 01:03 AM
Walker should never have pitched for the Sox in the first place.
I disagree. While getting Walker wasn't a big move, it was one of the many small moves a GM makes. KW has made many small moves like this in the past that have worked brilliantly (Marte, Uribe, Loaiza). You can't fault KW for trying at all. Walker just sucks, its no big deal. Walker lost us 1 game this year. With our record now, if we end up missing the playoffs by 1 game, its more the fault of everyone on the team than Walker. We tried him, he blows, and he wont be able to hurt us again. 1 game is all we gave up in this grand Kevin Walker experiment that Lip seems to think should have never happened. No biggie.

JB98
07-10-2005, 01:08 AM
Here were Jenks' stats in B'ham: Stats. (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Bobby%20Jenks&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=408057)
I suppose the BB are slightly high, but it didn't look like anything major. He probably was nervous, but he may just have shaky control this early in his career...I, too, don't know. I just hope he isn't like Kyle Farnsworth when he was with the cubs; they certainly look similar in terms of pitching styles.

Walker's gone tomorrow after the game probably, as Ozzie said he'd like to make his major roster moves tomorrow; he is going out of town. I have no clue who KW will send down: Harris or Perez. Harris is more versatile defensively but has shown he's not a threat with the bat and belongs only in the #8/#9/#1(occasionally) spot. Perez has more pop offensively but has no import defensively except at OF, which is currently in surplus on this ballclub. Jenks will be sent down the day El Duque is needed; I'm sure they'll keep him as long as they can otherwise.

That Harris/Perez thing is going to be a tough call. To me, Perez is clearly a better player. It's just that we have too many damn corner outfielders as it is, and Gload's return only adds to that. If Harris is sent out, we have only Ozuna to serve as a backup infielder. That leaves us a little thin, especially with Crede and Uribe being less than 100 percent at this time.

TheOldRoman
07-10-2005, 01:14 AM
I know about their patience and selectivity, but this seems to go beyond just that. I mean, if they are such a good, selective hitting team, why don't they have the best record in baseball? How did Toronto beat them two out of three games? Their selectivity seems to be much, much better against the Sox than any other team.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with confidence. As others have pointed out, they know they own the Sox.

It seems like every big hit they have had against the Sox this year has been by a guy with a 1-2 or 0-2 count. No count is safe against them.
First of all, the umpiring in our games against Oakland has been absolutely horrible the entire year. I don't know why, but in every single game the A's were getting strikes several inches off the plate, and the Sox pitchers were getting squeezed.

It makes it even tougher to face the A's when your pitcher is squeezed. They are selective, and they make you throw strikes. If the umps take away a large portion of the strike zone, you can either throw it in there and pray your defense has your back, or walk them.

The A's aren't a good team, plain and simple. They are mediocre, and there is no reason we should be losing to them. Losing these two games to the A's feels like an 8 game losing streak just because I hate losing to them so much. Look at the games against the A's this year. The first series should have been swept. Questionable calls ruined the second game, and we all remember the third game. In the second series, we should have won game 3, giving us 2/3. Buehrle makes that play and gets out of the inning 99/100 times. This series has been even worse. We got really good starting pitching, but it seemed as if the offense wasn't even trying these last two nights. We could have just as easily taken 7 of 8 from the A's so far. Most of it is just circumstance. Against any other team, the ball bounces the wrong way, and we think its no big deal. Against the A's, a series of horrible calls, a couple rare errors, and an offensive siesta are magnified tenfold. I don't fear Oakland, and if the Sox players do, Ozzie isn't doing his job. We are the best team in baseball. If Oakland ends up making the playoffs, we will sweep them. I don't give a damn how many times we lost to them, they won't beat us if they make the playoffs.

leftfieldbleachy
07-10-2005, 01:45 AM
Here were Jenks' stats in B'ham: Stats. (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Bobby%20Jenks&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=408057)
I suppose the BB are slightly high, but it didn't look like anything major.


First, 20 BB in 41 IP is not "slightly" high, it's very high. It's especially high when you take into account the fact that this happened in Double-A, where hitters tend not to be going out of their way to show a great deal of patience at the plate.

Someone with a 4.3 BB/9 against AA hitters is going to have a great deal of trouble getting big league hitters out, especially hitters on stats-obsessed teams with a penchant for patience at the plate.

IowaSox1971
07-10-2005, 03:18 AM
If we make the playoffs, Oakland is actually the team I'd prefer to face. Garcia usually pitches well against Oakland, and Garland has beaten them twice this year in Oakland. Boston, the Yankees, the Angels, Minnesota and maybe even Cleveland are much better teams than Oakland. We're also a better team than Oakland; we just haven't been getting many breaks against them. Sometimes that happens during the regular season. People forget that the Royals, who had a losing record that year, won the season series against us in 2000.

Also, regular-season results don't mean anything once the playoffs start. We were 7-5 against Seattle in the 2000 regular season, but we got swept in the playoffs. Even if we finish 2-7 in the regular season against Oakland, I still think we'd beat them in a playoff series.

We've been playing so well this year that we were due to have a bad series where we didn't play well, and this happens to be it. Wednesday was an emotional day for the team, with Podsednik earning the All-Star berth. So, perhaps there has been a slight letdown. We have a double-digit lead in the division, Thursday was an off day and the All-Star break looms. Those are all possible factors in why we haven't been playing our best the past two nights.

MrRoboto83
07-10-2005, 04:54 AM
Nightmare scenario: The A's go on a tear in the 2nd half and win the Wild Card. That would be a very short playoff series for us. This team owns us; they know it, we know it and it's not going to change if we play them in the postseason.


This does concern me

bluestar
07-10-2005, 07:01 AM
I disagree. While getting Walker wasn't a big move, it was one of the many small moves a GM makes. KW has made many small moves like this in the past that have worked brilliantly (Marte, Uribe, Loaiza). You can't fault KW for trying at all. Walker just sucks, its no big deal. Walker lost us 1 game this year. With our record now, if we end up missing the playoffs by 1 game, its more the fault of everyone on the team than Walker. We tried him, he blows, and he wont be able to hurt us again. 1 game is all we gave up in this grand Kevin Walker experiment that Lip seems to think should have never happened. No biggie.

I didn't say bringing Walker up was going to cost us the division or anything; it is just my opinion that he had not demonstrated he was an effective reliever at any point during spring training or during his time in Charlotte. It looked pretty obvious during his first stint with the Sox this year that he was ineffective. I didn't see any point in giving him another shot.

bluestar
07-10-2005, 07:23 AM
I commented about the possibility of the A's seeing something that is tipping them to the Sox pitches, but the more I think about it, the more I think it may only apply to Buehrle. Buehrle's performance against the A's this year is very reminiscent of McDowell's performance against the Blue Jays in the '93 ALCS. McDowell was arguably the best pitcher in the AL in '93, but in the ALCS that year, the Jays knocked him around. McDowell commented that it seemed like the Jays knew whatever pitch he used was coming before he threw it. After the series, the Jays admitted they had picked up on something (I never heard what it was) McDowell was doing that tipped them to his pitches. While this factor is rarely mentioned when discussing the '93 ALCS, I think it made the difference in that series.

Garland has pitched well against the A's this year, even in his loss on Friday night. Contreras is the kind of pitcher the A's will feast upon when he has no control as was the case in the game where he walked so many. Garcia was solid when he faced Oakland in Oakland, although he had a no-decision. But Buehrle struggles against the A's and has for his entire career.

downstairs
07-10-2005, 08:00 AM
Positives:

1. We won't face Oakland again after tomorrow. We were nice enough this year to give them a glimmer of playoff hope... but unfortunately they have to play teams other than us to make it.

2. The Twins? The Indians? Ha! Looks like they've given this division to us.

3. Packed house. Looks like, other than some fluke games, we're finally the only professional baseball team in Chicago.


Negatives:

1. There is no excuse for 1 run on 3 hits. Unless you're facing Drysdale or Kofax in their prime.

2. I don't think Jenks looks good. He's a one-trick pony. I didn't think he looked good in his 1st outting either. But, I'm just not a fan of the pure speed pitcher. I *have* to believe a pro baseball player can hit a 99 MPH as easily as a 89 MPH once he times it right.

SOXSINCE'70
07-10-2005, 09:50 AM
3 game losing streak. Longest losing streak in the history of baseball.

Relax. All is well...


Wait a minute.Did the Sox lose Sunday's game before it
was played?? It's a 2 game losing streak thus far.

If Freddy Garcia (Mr.Day Game) ever won a day game,
this is it.:cool: :cool:

Jurr
07-10-2005, 10:12 AM
Positives:

1. We won't face Oakland again after tomorrow. We were nice enough this year to give them a glimmer of playoff hope... but unfortunately they have to play teams other than us to make it.

2. The Twins? The Indians? Ha! Looks like they've given this division to us.

3. Packed house. Looks like, other than some fluke games, we're finally the only professional baseball team in Chicago.


Negatives:

1. There is no excuse for 1 run on 3 hits. Unless you're facing Drysdale or Kofax in their prime.

2. I don't think Jenks looks good. He's a one-trick pony. I didn't think he looked good in his 1st outting either. But, I'm just not a fan of the pure speed pitcher. I *have* to believe a pro baseball player can hit a 99 MPH as easily as a 89 MPH once he times it right.
Go ahead and try to hit a curveball like Zito's been dealing the last four starts. The guy won a Cy Young award for a reason. There is an excuse for one run on three hits. When a pitcher is dealing, there's nothing you can do about it.

As far as Jenks goes, if he can learn to get that changeup to come out of the same arm slot as the fastball, it's over with. You're talking Gagne. It's good that he was brought up to work with Cooper a little. If the Sox guys can keep working with him in AAA, he might become very special.

A_ROW33
07-10-2005, 10:28 AM
[QUOTE=Jurr]Go ahead and try to hit a curveball like Zito's been dealing the last four starts. The guy won a Cy Young award for a reason. There is an excuse for one run on three hits. When a pitcher is dealing, there's nothing you can do about it... [QUOTE]

Agreed but there is no excuse for executing a double steal with no outs and only getting one run out of it.

To me Konerko popping up there after frank's sac fly was the play of the game, we had some momentum going, and then Paulie failed and we got clobbered from there after.

CubKilla
07-10-2005, 10:49 AM
Packed house. Looks like, other than some fluke games, we're finally the only professional baseball team in Chicago.

Speaking of packed houses, why is it that this team always craps itself collectively when USCF draws well? Maybe small crowds aren't such a bad thing.

White Sox Josh
07-10-2005, 10:54 AM
Why was the ball hit to Harris in the 9th ruled a hit. His throw pulled Konerko off the bag and if it had been accurate than Kotsay would've been out. It should've been ruled an error. I've seen that before to.

CHISOXFAN13
07-10-2005, 11:00 AM
Speaking of packed houses, why is it that this team always craps itself collectively when USCF draws well? Maybe small crowds aren't such a bad thing.

This year's sellouts.

Opening Day win.
Memorial Day win.
Friday Cubs win
Saturday Cubs loss
Sunday Cubs loss
4th of July win
yesterday loss

Next biggest crowd was the come-from-behind win against the Dodgers on Saturday night.

Other strong efforts in front of sellout crowds include two wins at Wrigley and Opening Night in the Twin Cities.

While the percentage in front of large crowds isn't as impressive as the overall winning percentage, the blanket statement has no merit since the Sox have played well in front of big crowds this season.

FarWestChicago
07-10-2005, 12:06 PM
Go ahead and try to hit a curveball like Zito's been dealing the last four starts. The guy won a Cy Young award for a reason. There is an excuse for one run on three hits. When a pitcher is dealing, there's nothing you can do about it.People forget how good the pre-bong Zito was. It looks like the A's found his stash and/or a way to cut off his contacts about 6 weeks ago. He has said in the paper he knows he has to be a leader to the young pitchers. Heck, maybe he cut back on the partying on his own.

White Sox Josh
07-10-2005, 12:07 PM
People forget how good the pre-bong Zito was. It looks like the A's found his stash and/or a way to cut off his contacts about 6 weeks ago. He has said in the paper he knows he has to be a leader to the young pitchers. Heck, maybe he cut back on the partying on his own.He has the best Curveball in baseball. When it's on, WOW.

chitownhawkfan
07-10-2005, 12:08 PM
"Well, We're in a Slump"
it was bound to happen. No use being a chicken-little about it.

The timing's pretty good, though; we got Tampa Bay (they are so bad, we could beat them during a slump) for 3 games and now we have the all star break coming up. So for what I see as an 8 game slump, we're 4-4....not too bad.

My opinion of the team remains the same. We are very good, will make the playoffs, and will have a good shot in the playoffs. We have offensive problems at C, 3B, SS; we have 3 good starting pitchers, but perhaps not the best 3 or 4 that will be in the playoffs; we have a 1B whose superficial stats may suggest production greater than reality. None of those are real "weaknesses" re getting to the playoffs - we aren't terrible in most of those areas; but in terms of winning a WS, they may not be up to par

Because we have 3-5 weaknesses (but not severe), I don't think one or two blockbuster deals will make that much of a difference in our chances this year. On the downside, those deals could seriously harm our ability to be in even a better position at this time of future seasons. I suggest judicious retooling before the deadline. Dealing Konerko, as scary and silly as it sounds, makes more sense to me, than sending away 3-4 top prospects and taking on unweildy burdensome new contracts, that will retard our ability to take the next step next off-season.

So I would be, as always, cautious and judicious with deadline trades. Pickup some players, but don't overpay. But that's just me.

I might overuse the pictures but at least I dont spew junk like this. We are 6-4 over our last ten, how does .600 baseball qualify as a slump? If it does I hope we keep "slumping" all season.

RallyBowl
07-10-2005, 12:50 PM
Nightmare scenario: The A's go on a tear in the 2nd half and win the Wild Card. That would be a very short playoff series for us. This team owns us; they know it, we know it and it's not going to change if we play them in the postseason.
:bundy
I cannot beleive what I just read. I'd like to see your credentials, sir.

RallyBowl
07-10-2005, 12:51 PM
Yes, on the positive side, our starting pitching and top of the order are still giving this team a chance to win.

Its sad to say but I really missed maggs tonight which iguchi on 3rd and PK at the plate.

Oh well.... F him!
You missed WHO?

russ99
07-10-2005, 01:14 PM
Positives

Negatives:

1. There is no excuse for 1 run on 3 hits. Unless you're facing Drysdale or Kofax in their prime.

2. I don't think Jenks looks good. He's a one-trick pony. I didn't think he looked good in his 1st outting either. But, I'm just not a fan of the pure speed pitcher. I *have* to believe a pro baseball player can hit a 99 MPH as easily as a 89 MPH once he times it right.


Jenks needs more time in AAA, but if he can harness that heat and the wicked change/curve he has and throw everthing for strikes, he'll be a keeper. Last night was his first major-league high-pressure situation, so take it easy on the kid. I'll take him over Walker any day.

My biggest 2 gripes about last night's game were Ozuna's seeming lack of effort on ground balls (although he's playing out of position) and the Sox inability to swing the bat. I can handle swinging K's, but waiting for the perfect pitch against Zito is suicide. (I'll excuse Scotty, he knows what he's doing) No gripes on the umps yesterday. There were many borderline high curves from Zito that were called balls.

Buerhle makes one mistake and we lose because of a total lack of situational hitting. Whatever happened to Frank and Konerko hitting to the opposite field to bring in a runner? Stop trying to yank one every at-bat!

Here's hoping the Sox are good and mad and open a can of whoop-ass an the A's today.