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View Full Version : Comparing Podsednik to other lead-off hitters...


WhiteSoxFan84
07-08-2005, 03:42 PM
The following is a list of lead-off hitters on teams that are "still in playoff contention", ranked by OBP and that number is accompanied by the number of stolen bases they have...

Orioles, Brian Roberts; .424, 18
Rangers, David Dellucci*; .413, 4
Phillies, Jason Michaels; .411, 2
Yankees, Derek Jeter; .393, 10
Red Sox, Johnny Damon; .380, 8
Nationals, Brad Wilkerson; .375, 4
Cardinals, David Eckstein; .372, 7
Diamondbacks, Craig Counsell; .370, 11
White Sox, Scott Podsednik; .363, 41
Padres, Dave Roberts; .346, 14
Twins, Shannon Stewart; .343, 5
Indians, Grady Sizemore; .341, 11
Angels, Chone Figgins; .329, 25
Astros, Willy Taverez; .326, 22
Marlins, Juan Pierre; .314, 24
Blue Jays, Russ Adams; .309, 5
Braves, Rafael Furcal; .300, 29
Mets, Joses Reyes; .276, 25
Cubs, Corey Patterson; .270, 12

* = how this guy leads off blows my mind. But if Buck thinks it's the right thing to do, it MUST be the right thing. He has no speed at all and that's why i compare the 2005 Rangers to the White Sox of 2001-2004; built on power and no balance at all. I don't see them making the playoffs. Same goes for Wilkerson and the Nationals.

ScoPo is 9th on that list in OBP and 1st in SBs. If you add those two rankings up and divide them by 2, you get a 5.0 average. That average is 2nd only to Brian Roberts' 4.0 (1st in OBP, 7th in SBs). Odd stat, but considering OBP and SBs are the top 2 stats for a lead-off man, we seem to have the 2nd best one in the game.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2005, 03:43 PM
Patterson shouldn't be on that list anymore. :cool:

WhiteSoxFan84
07-08-2005, 03:45 PM
Patterson shouldn't be on that list anymore. :cool:

i put him on there just to rub it in :redneck

mjharrison72
07-08-2005, 03:47 PM
And it's scary to think if Scotty's OBP were a little higher, his SB total would probably be higher as well. All in all, though, I don't think the Sox could be happier with the way Scotty has led off; even when he doesn't steal, his presence ont he bases shakes opposing pitchers. I have to say I'd like to see him lay down some more bunts when teams don't play in on him.

Sxy Mofo
07-08-2005, 03:48 PM
Nice post. What seals it for me is how easily that obp becomes a triple for pods. Other guys without the speed are double play victims or left on base. Scott scores on the sac fly.


You know what would be an interesting stat if anyone could ever figure this out... is times being involved in a double play or times stranded on base. Then another factor would be to see how many times these leadoff hitters score on a sac fly or an out. Factoring those, along with the OBP would be an interesting comparison.


This all just sounds like too much work. Would be interesting though.

A_ROW33
07-08-2005, 04:09 PM
Don't forget that he's right up there with the league leaders in pitches seen per at bat! He might even be leading that category, I know he was earlier in the year.

doublem23
07-08-2005, 04:11 PM
The best lead-off hitter in baseball is Ichiro, hands down. Scott's just as good as anyone else, though.

MIgrenade
07-08-2005, 04:22 PM
According to Bores and Bernstein, Pods isn't very good and doesn't deserve to be an All-Star and everything else they say.

I think this shows he's done a good job. What people don't seem to remember is that he played in the NL and hasn't seen most of these pitchers. Everyone says Iguchi has made a great adjustment, well so has Pods.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 04:25 PM
The following is a list of lead-off hitters on teams that are "still in playoff contention", ranked by OBP and that number is accompanied by the number of stolen bases they have...

Orioles, Brian Roberts; .424, 18
Rangers, David Dellucci*; .413, 4
Phillies, Jason Michaels; .411, 2
Yankees, Derek Jeter; .393, 10
Red Sox, Johnny Damon; .380, 8
Nationals, Brad Wilkerson; .375, 4
Cardinals, David Eckstein; .372, 7
Diamondbacks, Craig Counsell; .370, 11
White Sox, Scott Podsednik; .363, 41
Padres, Dave Roberts; .346, 14
Twins, Shannon Stewart; .343, 5
Indians, Grady Sizemore; .341, 11
Angels, Chone Figgins; .329, 25
Astros, Willy Taverez; .326, 22
Marlins, Juan Pierre; .314, 24
Blue Jays, Russ Adams; .309, 5
Braves, Rafael Furcal; .300, 29
Mets, Joses Reyes; .276, 25
Cubs, Corey Patterson; .270, 12

* = how this guy leads off blows my mind. But if Buck thinks it's the right thing to do, it MUST be the right thing. He has no speed at all and that's why i compare the 2005 Rangers to the White Sox of 2001-2004; built on power and no balance at all. I don't see them making the playoffs. Same goes for Wilkerson and the Nationals.

ScoPo is 9th on that list in OBP and 1st in SBs. If you add those two rankings up and divide them by 2, you get a 5.0 average. That average is 2nd only to Brian Roberts' 4.0 (1st in OBP, 7th in SBs). Odd stat, but considering OBP and SBs are the top 2 stats for a lead-off man, we seem to have the 2nd best one in the game.

Dellucci leads off because he has a .413 OBP. That's incredible for a leadoff man. And with big hitters like Young, Blalock, Teixeira, Soriano, and Mench in their lineup, all the Rangers want is someone who can get on base for those guys. Dellucci is the best leadoff man they have.

As for Wilkerson, he leads off because he's the best option they have. Not every team can have a leadoff man who is a threat to steal everytime. I mean who would you rather have leading off for you; Dellucci/Wilkerson or Jose Reyes. I think it's pretty clear that Dellucci and Wilkerson are better leadoff hitters, despite their lack of stolen bases.

Mr. White Sox
07-08-2005, 04:28 PM
This all just sounds like too much work. Would be interesting though.

Why not just add runs scored? That, arguably, is the third most important (or tied for 2nd-most important) stat a leadoff guy could have. Scotty has 48 I believe.

And yes, Ichiro is the best leadoff hitter in the bigs. Now that Adrian Beltre is starting to hit, we'll be seeing that a lot more.

Iwritecode
07-08-2005, 04:42 PM
The best lead-off hitter in baseball is Ichiro, hands down. Scott's just as good as anyone else, though.

The one thing I didn't like about Ichiro (and I haven't looked at his stats for awhile so this may have changed) is that he really doesn't see all that many pitches.

That's one great thing about Scott.

DaleJRFan
07-08-2005, 04:44 PM
:threadrules:

We should add infield hits, sac bunts, bunt singles, total bases, runs scored...

Pods would outrank almost all of the dudes in front of him.

ChiSoxPatF
07-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Nice post. What seals it for me is how easily that obp becomes a triple for pods. Other guys without the speed are double play victims or left on base. Scott scores on the sac fly.


You know what would be an interesting stat if anyone could ever figure this out... is times being involved in a double play or times stranded on base. Then another factor would be to see how many times these leadoff hitters score on a sac fly or an out. Factoring those, along with the OBP would be an interesting comparison.


This all just sounds like too much work. Would be interesting though.

If we're inventing stats I have one as well. Everyone is enamoured with Slugging yet it doesn't tell the whole story. When Scottie gets a single and steals second its every bit as effective as a double, right? Why not include these into Slugging to show the true effectiveness of one at-bat per player. Call it SSB - Slugging including Stolen Bases.

In this sense, Pod is more effective, per at bat, than even Paulie since Paulie does not stretch anything beyond his initial at bat. Think about other beloved major leaguers ESPN makes such a big fuss about too.

SSB:
Pod .489
Damon .489
Jeter .483
Ichiro .481
Anderson .474
Paulie .473
Blalock .468
EChavez .447

Looks like Pods, even without hitting homerun, gets more bases per at bat than alot of ESPN's favorite sons.

Sxy Mofo
07-08-2005, 04:58 PM
Why not just add runs scored? That, arguably, is the third most important (or tied for 2nd-most important) stat a leadoff guy could have. Scotty has 48 I believe.

And yes, Ichiro is the best leadoff hitter in the bigs. Now that Adrian Beltre is starting to hit, we'll be seeing that a lot more.


Because I like to make things complicated.



Actually i was going to say something about runs scored, but it wouldn't factor in, let's say, scoring on a sac play. Because that's a huge stat in run production. Scoring on a sac play means that the guys behind scott don't have to do as much to score the run as they do for other guys who may be standing on second or first.

Sxy Mofo
07-08-2005, 05:00 PM
If we're inventing stats I have one as well.


I don't think i'm inventing stats, perhaps I am, but someone, somewhere has to keep track of persons runs scored on a sacrifice or times involved in a double play.

DaleJRFan
07-08-2005, 05:08 PM
If we're inventing stats I have one as well. Everyone is enamoured with Slugging yet it doesn't tell the whole story. When Scottie gets a single and steals second its every bit as effective as a double, right? Why not include these into Slugging to show the true effectiveness of one at-bat per player. Call it SSB - Slugging including Stolen Bases.

In this sense, Pod is more effective, per at bat, than even Paulie since Paulie does not stretch anything beyond his initial at bat. Think about other beloved major leaguers ESPN makes such a big fuss about too.

SSB:
Pod .489
Damon .489
Jeter .483
Ichiro .481
Anderson .474
Paulie .473
Blalock .468
EChavez .447

Looks like Pods, even without hitting homerun, gets more bases per at bat than alot of ESPN's favorite sons.

:hawk

"I love it when you analyze."

This thread rules, really. I love these stats. Proves just how POINTLESS the stats that are kept and talked about are in relation to the team winning. When your leadoff hitter has an OBP around 370-380 and a SSB (new stat, YES!) around 446, thinks are going to be happening out there.

This is the hitting equiv of WHIP, one of the few stats I pay attention to. Is this "SSB" something that has been mentioned in the past or did you just come up with that???

ChiSoxPatF
07-08-2005, 05:30 PM
:hawk

"I love it when you analyze."

This thread rules, really. I love these stats. Proves just how POINTLESS the stats that are kept and talked about are in relation to the team winning. When your leadoff hitter has an OBP around 370-380 and a SSB (new stat, YES!) around 446, thinks are going to be happening out there.

This is the hitting equiv of WHIP, one of the few stats I pay attention to. Is this "SSB" something that has been mentioned in the past or did you just come up with that???

As far as I know its original. It just stems from the thought that a single and a SB is as good as a double and combining that with Slugging which is meant to calculate how many bases you get per at bat. It seems logical to me but, then again, we have too many stats already. I think it does Pod a little more justice, yet you can still never really calculate the effect he has on pitchers when hes on base which is his true contribution to the team.

Sorry Sxy Mofo, I didn't mean anything by it. I just thought you were suggesting new stats so I offered up my humble stat.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-08-2005, 05:44 PM
As far as I know its original. It just stems from the thought that a single and a SB is as good as a double and combining that with Slugging which is meant to calculate how many bases you get per at bat. It seems logical to me but, then again, we have too many stats already. I think it does Pod a little more justice, yet you can still never really calculate the effect he has on pitchers when hes on base which is his true contribution to the team.

Sorry Sxy Mofo, I didn't mean anything by it. I just thought you were suggesting new stats so I offered up my humble stat.

after reading what you just wrote, why am i thinking of TB (total bases)? or are you going in a different direction?

doublem23
07-08-2005, 05:45 PM
after reading what you just wrote, why am i thinking of TB (total bases)? or are you going in a different direction?

Though I haven't done the calculation to prove my suspicion, I think the formula he used is (TB+SB)/AB, which actually makes a lot of sense. A single and a stolen base is as good as a double.

Mr. White Sox
07-08-2005, 05:48 PM
As far as I know its original. It just stems from the thought that a single and a SB is as good as a double and combining that with Slugging which is meant to calculate how many bases you get per at bat. It seems logical to me but, then again, we have too many stats already. I think it does Pod a little more justice, yet you can still never really calculate the effect he has on pitchers when hes on base which is his true contribution to the team.

Sorry Sxy Mofo, I didn't mean anything by it. I just thought you were suggesting new stats so I offered up my humble stat.

If you really want to make the stat awesome, subtract CS from the TB+SB statistic. That way, SB and CS really factor into total bases

RallyBowl
07-08-2005, 06:14 PM
:threadrules:

:pods: "To put it simply, I am the man."

Stretch
07-08-2005, 07:14 PM
The following is a list of lead-off hitters on teams that are "still in playoff contention", ranked by OBP and that number is accompanied by the number of stolen bases they have...

Orioles, Brian Roberts; .424, 18
Rangers, David Dellucci*; .413, 4
Phillies, Jason Michaels; .411, 2
Yankees, Derek Jeter; .393, 10
Red Sox, Johnny Damon; .380, 8
Nationals, Brad Wilkerson; .375, 4
Cardinals, David Eckstein; .372, 7
Diamondbacks, Craig Counsell; .370, 11
White Sox, Scott Podsednik; .363, 41
Padres, Dave Roberts; .346, 14
Twins, Shannon Stewart; .343, 5
Indians, Grady Sizemore; .341, 11
Angels, Chone Figgins; .329, 25
Astros, Willy Taverez; .326, 22
Marlins, Juan Pierre; .314, 24
Blue Jays, Russ Adams; .309, 5
Braves, Rafael Furcal; .300, 29
Mets, Joses Reyes; .276, 25
Cubs, Corey Patterson; .270, 12

* = how this guy leads off blows my mind. But if Buck thinks it's the right thing to do, it MUST be the right thing. He has no speed at all and that's why i compare the 2005 Rangers to the White Sox of 2001-2004; built on power and no balance at all. I don't see them making the playoffs. Same goes for Wilkerson and the Nationals.

ScoPo is 9th on that list in OBP and 1st in SBs. If you add those two rankings up and divide them by 2, you get a 5.0 average. That average is 2nd only to Brian Roberts' 4.0 (1st in OBP, 7th in SBs). Odd stat, but considering OBP and SBs are the top 2 stats for a lead-off man, we seem to have the 2nd best one in the game.

Dellucci and Wilkerson take a ton of walks and see a ton of pitches, theres absolutly nothing wrong with them....The Rangers won't make it because they have NO pitching not because their offense. Nationals are a lot like the Sox of this year excluding the stolen bases, great defense, solid pitching, well rounded offense and great bullpen. Getting onbase is more important than speed....luckily pods does both.

slobes
07-08-2005, 07:33 PM
If you really want to make the stat awesome, subtract CS from the TB+SB statistic. That way, SB and CS really factor into total bases

Genius