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Jjav829
07-07-2005, 01:19 PM
Well, Ken Rosenthal has confirmed what I think a lot of us already thought. KW does have interest in A.J. Burnett.

Think about how imposing the White Sox would be in postseason if Marlins righthander A.J. Burnett (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6314/) joined a rotation that already includes lefthander Mark Buerhle and righties Jon Garland (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6396/) and Freddy Garcia (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6168/).

The thought evidently has crossed the mind of White Sox GM Ken Williams. The White Sox are pursuing Burnett trade to further boost their rotation, which already ranks second in the American League with a 3.72 ERA.

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=whitesoxjoinchaseformarl&prov=tsn&type=lgns)

balke
07-07-2005, 01:21 PM
Meh. I think he throws too hard for his own good, and is on pace for another injury. But obviously if the cost wasn't too much I'd be pretty happy with the move.


I think we are more likely to go after Lilly or Guardado or Wagner personally.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 01:40 PM
Let's send them Colon straight up. No deep pink. I'm thinking of those Florida fans who told us the Marlins would work magic with Billy Koch.

Wouldn't you think they'd want another pet project?

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2005, 01:41 PM
Let's send them Colon straight up.

Colon is back with the Sox? Do they really need Burnett, then? :tongue:

I assume you mean Contreras, right?

MIgrenade
07-07-2005, 01:43 PM
Let's send them Colon straight up. No deep pink. I'm thinking of those Florida fans who told us the Marlins would work magic with Billy Koch.

Wouldn't you think they'd want another pet project?

I really feel like I'm missing something. Who is this Colon you speak of and I think Koch was sent to the D-Rays, right?

thepaulbowski
07-07-2005, 01:46 PM
I really feel like I'm missing something. Who is this Colon you speak of and I think Koch was sent to the D-Rays, right?

Kock was traded to Marlins. McKeon took him out in the middle of an at bat once.

Unregistered
07-07-2005, 01:47 PM
I really feel like I'm missing something. Who is this Colon you speak of and I think Koch was sent to the D-Rays, right?Koch was sent to the Marlins for Wilson Valdez.

Colon... hasn't been on the team for 2 seasons... :?:

RKMeibalane
07-07-2005, 01:52 PM
What is going on with this tread?

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 01:53 PM
Colon is back with the Sox? Do they really need Burnett, then? :tongue:

I assume you mean Contreras, right?

d'oh!

there's really no excuse here except

i'm a moron

edit: of course I meant contreras

http://artscenecal.com/Listings/WestHwd/TMossFile/TMossJPGs/AShafferJPGs/AShaffer7D.jpg
"stupid, stupid, stupid"

Mr. White Sox
07-07-2005, 02:00 PM
http://artscenecal.com/Listings/WestHwd/TMossFile/TMossJPGs/AShafferJPGs/AShaffer7D.jpg
"stupid, stupid, stupid"

You have completely redeemed yourself with that awesome picture.
I doubt any trade for Burnett would not include McCarthy...and KW should have to demand a window in which Burnett could be signed before any trade is made; it would suck to hire this guy like a mercenary for 1/2 year and give away the farm in the process...kind of like what the 'stros did for Beltran.

Madvora
07-07-2005, 02:07 PM
The problem is keeping him for more than just 3 months. However, if that leads us to a World Series winner, I'll worry about that later. The time is now.

Man, I get so excited just about hearing any new rumors out there. I'd dying for a move already. It's getting closer and closer and this week especially, I really been waiting for that big announcement.

WhiteSoxFan84
07-07-2005, 02:13 PM
no trade for burnett will be made unless the team that trades for him inks him long-term. the marlins aren't in a hurry to deal him as they are still in contention and know they have what it takes to win that weak NL.

i love burnett and would love to see him in sox pin stripes but seeing him last night, yes he struck out 14 guys in 6 innings, but he also threw about 125 pitches in those innings. regardless, i'd love to see him take el the open spot in the rotation if we don't give up the world for him.

here's the guys rumored to be on the block that i want to see on the southside, in order;

1) clemens
2) schmidt
3) burnett
4) lily
5) rusch

DumpJerry
07-07-2005, 02:25 PM
http://artscenecal.com/Listings/WestHwd/TMossFile/TMossJPGs/AShafferJPGs/AShaffer7D.jpg

It's sure nice to get a face to go with the name. If I see you at Comiskey, I'll say hi!

BTW: we missed the stellar reporting on the rumor. The Sox are second in the MLB to the St. Louis Cardinals with a 3.52 ERA. Last time I checked, the Cards in the NATIONAL League and a 3.72 ERA is a higher ERA than 3.52. Nice work, Ken. Lousy rumor, lousy fact-checking.

Tekijawa
07-07-2005, 02:28 PM
1) clemens
2) schmidt
3) burnett
4) lily
5) rusch

I'd throw Zito ahead of Burnett and Drop Lilly and Rusch as I have no desire to see either of those guys on the south side!

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 02:35 PM
It would be crazy to sign Burnett long term. JR would never EVER approve it. His arm's going to fall off.


An "under the radar" guy I could see KW going after is Gil Meche. KW's been after him for years. He's pitching well and has good stuff. Plus, our relationship with Seattle should be pretty good.

beckett21
07-07-2005, 02:35 PM
here's the guys rumored to be on the block that i want to see on the southside, in order;

1) clemens
2) schmidt
3) burnett
4) lily
5) rusch

I like this list. Personally I am split on Schmidt and Burnett; they are about even to me. Schmidt is appealing because there would be a club option on him for 2006, but if they could sign Burnett to a long-term deal he might be the better option.

I'd probably bump Oswalt up there with Clemens, but I think the Sox have about an equal chance at both of them, i.e. none. I'd also substitute Redman for Rusch in that list.

I realize the point is debatable on whether or not the Sox need another starter, hard to argue with the team's success at this point. Insurance never hurts though, and there is always room for improvement. I'd feel more secure with an extra ace in the rotation, depending upon cost.

beckett21
07-07-2005, 02:39 PM
It would be crazy to sign Burnett long term. JR would never EVER approve it. His arm's going to fall off.


An "under the radar" guy I could see KW going after is Gil Meche. KW's been after him for years. He's pitching well and has good stuff. Plus, our relationship with Seattle should be pretty good.

Yeah, Meche's arm has already fallen off plenty of times! :redneck

Meche would certainly be a lot cheaper, and not necessarily a bad option...but not because of his stellar health history.

Burnett seems to be fully recovered from his TJ surgery. That's not such a black mark anymore IMO.

Chicago83
07-07-2005, 02:44 PM
A.J. has some solid stats this year, but when I look at his career he reminds of a certain Cub. Career high in wins 12 and only 7 wins in all of '03 and '04. I am not very familiar with him , has he been injured often? He can strike some guys out but he doesn't seem very consistent. Still if we can get him and he's healthy for the playoffs it would be a great addition.

Chicago83
07-07-2005, 02:48 PM
An "under the radar" guy I could see KW going after is Gil Meche. KW's been after him for years. He's pitching well and has good stuff. Plus, our relationship with Seattle should be pretty good.

Gil Meche has been pitching allright, not better than Contreras or Hernandez though. He would not be an improvement to this rotation, the only reason I see to get him is to use him as a spot starter. He could take some of El Duque's starts or come out of the bullpen. Still I would rather see us get somebody a little better.

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 02:48 PM
Yeah, Meche's arm has already fallen off plenty of times! :redneck

Meche would certainly be a lot cheaper, and not necessarily a bad option...but not because of his stellar health history.

Burnett seems to be fully recovered from his TJ surgery. That's not such a black mark anymore IMO.



This is true but Meche is more of a low risk option. He won't cost the farm. I'm more interested in a guy that can eat innings. Somebody like Lilly is perfect. We don't need another stud. We have 4 pitchers for the playoff's.

beckett21
07-07-2005, 03:05 PM
A.J. has some solid stats this year, but when I look at his career he reminds of a certain Cub. Career high in wins 12 and only 7 wins in all of '03 and '04. I am not very familiar with him , has he been injured often? He can strike some guys out but he doesn't seem very consistent. Still if we can get him and he's healthy for the playoffs it would be a great addition.

The Marlins have actually wanted him to try to focus less on strikeouts to keep his pitch counts down. He has always been a little on the wild side, once threw a no-hitter and had 9 BB's IIRC.

He missed virtually all of 2003 and half of last year due to Tommy John surgery. Nasty stuff, power pitcher. I'll leave the specifics to the scouts. Serious heat though--I read where he allegedly was clocked at 104 mph earlier this season in a game at PNC Park. :o:

He seems to be all the way back from the surgery, if that's the case. :redneck

The comparisons to Wood are probably warranted to a degree, but Burnett has really only had the one major injury (albeit yes it was a big one), not a multitude of different injuries like Wood. He has been injured, but I don't know that I would call him injury-prone. 2002 was his breakout year, and he was on the cusp of stardom in 2003 when the injury set him back.

balke
07-07-2005, 03:22 PM
Strikeouts rule, but didn't he give up 4 runs on 4 hits last night? I've always been one to look at ERA. And the fact that he throws fireballs makes me think he's just going to get hurt again.

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 03:32 PM
How many times has Burnett been on the DL?

balke
07-07-2005, 03:38 PM
I googled A.J. Burnett DL, and here's a link with related articles, its a pretty long list, and most of them are recent.

http://kffl.com/player/4744/mlb

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 03:42 PM
He's only pitched over 200 innings once. The next closest was 173.

mdep524
07-07-2005, 03:48 PM
For some reason I'm a little wary about Burnett and suspicious of the Marlins. First, the Kerry Wood comparisons seem valid to me. Injuries, strike outs, high pitch counts, not many Ws. Also, I wonder why the Marlins keep talking about trading the guy- for over a year now. If he's so good, why don't they lock him up longer term? They're in the playoff hunt right now- isn't this a guy they would want down the stretch? Are there any clubhouse/chemistry issues at play here?

I know Jason Schmidt is just as big of an injury risk (some might argue bigger), but I like the guy's playoff/World Series experience, proven dominance and reasonably-priced team option for '06. Of course, this all depends on who we would have to send to Florida or SF in return....

Mr. White Sox
07-07-2005, 03:50 PM
It's sure nice to get a face to go with the name. If I see you at Comiskey, I'll say hi!

BTW: we missed the stellar reporting on the rumor. The Sox are second in the MLB to the St. Louis Cardinals with a 3.52 ERA. Last time I checked, the Cards in the NATIONAL League and a 3.72 ERA is a higher ERA than 3.52. Nice work, Ken.

:tealpolice:

AOOOOOOOOOOOOGA!

maurice
07-07-2005, 03:52 PM
How about trading for Burnett, offering arbitration at the end of the season, and letting him walk? There's no way he accepts, giving the Sox picks to partially compensate for the prospects they'd lose in the trade. Worst case scenario, he accepts arb. and gets injured . . . you're still only on the hook for a one-year deal. Best case scenario, you lose prospects but gain the picks, a late-season rental, and a World Series win.
:gulp:

Fungo
07-07-2005, 04:02 PM
:DJ

Has there ever been an A.J pitching to another A.J before?

ChiSoxRowand
07-07-2005, 04:11 PM
A guy I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox pick up is Mark Redman. Gammons said the he and the Pirates aren't coming along too well on a contract extension (he's a FA after the year), plus he wouldn't cost much at all.

sircaffey1
07-07-2005, 04:12 PM
Didn't Burnett pitch a no-hitter with like 8 walks? The guy has tremendous stuff. I'm all for getting him.

If KW gets a pitcher, it will be a 1/2 type not a Gil Meche, Glendon Rusch type.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2005, 05:12 PM
How about trading for Burnett, offering arbitration at the end of the season, and letting him walk? There's no way he accepts, giving the Sox picks to partially compensate for the prospects they'd lose in the trade. Worst case scenario, he accepts arb. and gets injured . . . you're still only on the hook for a one-year deal. Best case scenario, you lose prospects but gain the picks, a late-season rental, and a World Series win.
:gulp:

That seems like a good deal to me.

ChiSoxPatF
07-07-2005, 06:06 PM
Ken Rosenthal of the Sporting News says the Sox are working out a deal for AJ Burnett. The deal would center around sending Marte. The Marlins are looking for a young starter, a quality reliever, and a lefty outfielder.

I personally think this would be incredible if we could resign Burnett (he'd get what Garcia and Buerhle get) especially since the Sox have exactly what the Marlins want: McCarthy, Marte, and either Timo or one of our young OFs.

A penny for the Sox Army thoughts.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 06:13 PM
Ken Rosenthal of the Sporting News says the Sox are working out a deal for AJ Burnett. The deal would center around sending Marte. The Marlins are looking for a young starter, a quality reliever, and a lefty outfielder.

I personally think this would be incredible if we could resign Burnett (he'd get what Garcia and Buerhle get) especially since the Sox have exactly what the Marlins want: McCarthy, Marte, and either Timo or one of our young OFs.

A penny for the Sox Army thoughts.

I'd do that in a blink, 3 month rental or not. Assuming it's Timo.

leave that Ernie Broglio hand wringing for the scrubbie fans

mealfred13
07-07-2005, 06:21 PM
I'd do that in a blink, 3 month rental or not. Assuming it's Timo.

leave that Ernie Broglio hand wringing for the scrubbie fans

If they can guarantee resigning him before making a deal like this, I'd almost be willing to part with Sweeny or Anderson if necessary...Almost.

SoxSpeed22
07-07-2005, 06:26 PM
First, What's the Score? Second, If we're gonna do this, then we better find another lefty in the pen. I don't think Cotts can handle being the only lefty. The other problem I have with this is Burnett's injury problems. If we're givin' up some real good players for an injury-prone guy, forget it.

BRDSR
07-07-2005, 06:31 PM
First, What's the Score? Second, If we're gonna do this, then we better find another lefty in the pen. I don't think Cotts can handle being the only lefty. The other problem I have with this is Burnett's injury problems. If we're givin' up some real good players for an injury-prone guy, forget it.

You don't consider Kevin Walker a viable option for a lefty out of the pen?

Really though, I agree with your assessment on the injuries. I think Kenny, in general, has been good about not going after too many injury prone guys and I don't know why he would start now. Burnett goes to the DL about twice per season for blisters alone. That said, I don't think Marte and two prospects are much to give up for a guy who's had big league success, especially at the NLCS/World Series level. Prospects are just that: prospects. Theres nothing guaranteed about a Brian Anderson or Sweeny but we know Burnett can pitch to big leaguers. I would probably be on board with this deal provided the Sox feel they have a decent chance at signing him and they have seen first-hand that his injuries are not a foreseeable problem.

ChiSoxPatF
07-07-2005, 06:31 PM
http://www.thesportingnews.com/experts/ken-rosenthal/20050707.htmlHe was injured in 2003 but he has come back. The trade-off was that now he throws 94-95 mph instead of 100 mph but hes still a very effective power pitcher. Ironically, he is also probably the LEAST injury-prone pitcher that the Sox are looking at - Schmidt was hurt only a month ago.

ChiSoxPatF
07-07-2005, 06:33 PM
You don't consider Kevin Walker a viable option for a lefty out of the pen?

Really though, I agree with your assessment on the injuries. I think Kenny, in general, has been good about not going after too many injury prone guys and I don't know why he would start now. Burnett goes to the DL about twice per season for blisters alone. That said, I don't think Marte and two prospects are much to give up for a guy who's had big league success, especially at the NLCS/World Series level. Prospects are just that: prospects. Theres nothing guaranteed about a Brian Anderson or Sweeny but we know Burnett can pitch to big leaguers. I would probably be on board with this deal provided the Sox feel they have a decent chance at signing him and they have seen first-hand that his injuries are not a foreseeable problem.

Beckett is the Marlin that gets the blisters not Burnett.

ATXBMX
07-07-2005, 06:34 PM
Why in the world would he get Buehrle money? He's injury prone, he's never won more than 12 games a season, has a losing record (42-43), has no playoff experience, has a national league/pitcher's park ERA of 3.75. He is NOT Buehrle or Garcia.

Kizzy08
07-07-2005, 06:36 PM
I don't post much here, I generally just read through the threads and gather info.

But this, I had to post to. Burnett is THE guy I wanted the Sox to get after hearing all the rumors that the Sox were looking for a pitcher and that for some reason, Burnett was on the block.

This guy is a power pitcher the Sox haven't had in quite a while. This guy can go out and strike out 10 guys an outing and can go pretty deep in a ball game. We can obviously get by without Marte, because...well, we have been. I think we've been doing better ever since he went to the DL. Cotts is a stud and Politte is a stud. Our pitchers go deep into ballgames which saves our bullpen's arms anyway. Cotts will do great, and Politte can get lefties out too if he needs to.

Buehrle, Garland, Garcia and Burnett? Are you kidding me? All for Marte and a lefty outfielder?

If we can somehow get Burnett to sign an extension with us....this is TRULY a no-brainer.

JermaineDye05
07-07-2005, 06:36 PM
Marte, Borchard, McCarthy, or one of our other starters (no I dont mean for this to be in teal) they may like borchard I mean hes got tons of power, i mean he did hit the longest homer at the cell, and hell didnt the fish take Koch

gr8mexico
07-07-2005, 06:37 PM
First, What's the Score? Second, If we're gonna do this, then we better find another lefty in the pen. I don't think Cotts can handle being the only lefty. The other problem I have with this is Burnett's injury problems. If we're givin' up some real good players for an injury-prone guy, forget it. What about if the SOX make the trade for Guardado and then they trade Marte for Burnett.That would make sense.

JermaineDye05
07-07-2005, 06:37 PM
Ken Rosenthal of the Sporting News says the Sox are working out a deal for AJ Burnett. The deal would center around sending Marte. The Marlins are looking for a young starter, a quality reliever, and a lefty outfielder.

I personally think this would be incredible if we could resign Burnett (he'd get what Garcia and Buerhle get) especially since the Sox have exactly what the Marlins want: McCarthy, Marte, and either Timo or one of our young OFs.

A penny for the Sox Army thoughts.


where did he say were working out a deal for Burnett, it just said the thought has crossed kenny's mind

ATXBMX
07-07-2005, 06:39 PM
What about if the SOX make the trade for Guardado and then they trade Marte for Burnett.That would make sense.

Except Guardado is more hurt than Marte, he's just pitching through it. He could go down at any time. Then, we'd have even more injury prone players, Burnett, Guardado, Hernandez...

GiveMeSox
07-07-2005, 06:49 PM
First, What's the Score? Second, If we're gonna do this, then we better find another lefty in the pen. I don't think Cotts can handle being the only lefty. The other problem I have with this is Burnett's injury problems. If we're givin' up some real good players for an injury-prone guy, forget it.

I totally agree, but it downgrades our pen considerably. You have to have quality proven arms in the pen if you want to win in the postseason and getting rid of marte and giving the ball to walker as the other lefty in the pen is not a good idea come crunch time. I would rather stand pat. If we could get Burnett for maybe some of our position players I would do it like Perdo Lopez, Raul Casonova, Willie, Timo would be fine.

ATXBMX
07-07-2005, 06:53 PM
I totally agree, but it downgrades our pen considerably. You have to have quality proven arms in the pen if you want to win in the postseason and getting rid of marte and giving the ball to walker as the other lefty in the pen is not a good idea come crunch time. I would rather stand pat. If we could get Burnett for maybe some of our position players I would do it like Perdo Lopez, Raul Casonova, Willie, Timo would be fine.

What would the Marlins want with Casanova? He's a 32 year old journeyman. Willie is our only major league ready 2nd baseman, he won't go anywhere.

nedlug
07-07-2005, 07:02 PM
I totally agree, but it downgrades our pen considerably. You have to have quality proven arms in the pen if you want to win in the postseason and getting rid of marte and giving the ball to walker as the other lefty in the pen is not a good idea come crunch time. I would rather stand pat. If we could get Burnett for maybe some of our position players I would do it like Perdo Lopez, Raul Casonova, Willie, Timo would be fine.

In the postseason, with Burnett, we'd have both Cubans in the pen. Good enough for me...

NonetheLoaiza
07-07-2005, 07:18 PM
Only problem with Guardado is what we would have to give up for him since he wants to be a closer, as his contract is tailored in favor of...

ATXBMX
07-07-2005, 07:33 PM
I just don't see how Burnett will help us. You take a National League pitcher from a pitcher's park, send him to an American League team with a hitter's park, and his 3.75 ERA will skyrocket. At his best, he would be our 4th or 5th starter. 5th starters need to eat innings, and he is not an innings eater. The one season that he won at least 12 games, he pitched 204.1 innings. The very next year, he pitched 23 innings. Only 23!!! He's already thrown 113.2 innings this year.

I can't believe that I have to say this, but Kerry Wood is more durable than AJ Burnett. Yeah, that Kerry Wood.

Since 1998:
*Wood (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=134268):-----171 Games-----1080.1 IP
#Burnett (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=150359):---119 Games------758.1 IP

*Wood missed the entire 1999 season
#Burnett made his debut in 1999

frankie_ventura
07-07-2005, 07:37 PM
Trade McCarthy, Marte, and Anderson for Burnett. Anderson will probably be the one most missed but none of the Sox outfielders are going anywhere for a few years so he would be stuck in AAA again and Sweeney might be ready by then. Even if Burnett is a rental, I think he is worth the risk. That is four stud pitchers for the playoffs and insurance if someone gets injured. If they can not resign him, the Sox will get another pick in the 2006 draft at the least. The Marlins may even be interested in Conteras since he is Cuban and that might get fans in the seats. Then trade Borchard to the Giants for Scott Eyre and that is how they get another proven lefty.

The Sox will be in good shape for the playoffs and not lose too many of their prospects

CYGarland20
07-07-2005, 07:42 PM
I would loooooove to get Burnett, but since Beckett can't stay of the DL or keep from getting injured, I am not sure Florida would move him............ Unless they go into the tank or Beckett can stay healthy for a few starts. As far as what we would probably have to give up if we did get him, i would say they'd probably want either McCarthy or Contreras, Marte and possibly Vizcaino or Shingo, as well as MAYBE someone like Timo or Borchard, if were lucky. I'd make the deal if it's there, we'll just have to wait and see.

shaunburnette
07-07-2005, 08:20 PM
For everyone complaining that he has a 3.75 ERA in a pitchers park, he actually has a 3.33 ERA and of his last 10 starts, 7 have been on the road.

DATE OPP RESULT IP H R ER HR BB SO GB FB BF #Pit GSc Dec. Rel. ERA*
5/15 @SD L 4-12 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250515125) 6.0 8 5 4 0 4 4 9 7 29 114 38 L(3-4) -- 3.05
5/21 TB W 4-3 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250521128) 6.0 3 3 3 1 3 6 7 5 23 99 57 -- -- 3.19
5/31 @PIT L 4-5 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250531123) 6.0 4 3 0 0 2 2 12 5 27 96 58 -- -- 2.91
6/5 @WAS L 3-6 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250605120) 6.1 6 3 3 0 1 6 12 4 25 98 54 -- -- 3.03
6/10 TEX W 12-5 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250610128) 7.1 7 3 3 0 3 10 10 4 30 111 59 -- -- 3.09
6/15 @CHC W 15-5 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250615116) 6.2 11 5 5 1 1 2 15 6 32 105 33 W(4-4) -- 3.36
6/21 @ATL L 0-5 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250621115) 6.0 6 3 3 0 3 4 16 2 27 105 49 L(4-5) -- 3.44
6/26 @TB W 1-0 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250626130) 9.0 2 0 0 0 2 7 15 4 30 123 88 W(5-5) -- 3.14
7/1 @NYM L 6-7 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250701121) 4.1 5 5 2 0 2 4 9 3 23 87 41 -- -- 3.18
7/6 MIL W 5-4 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250706128) 6.0 4 4 4 0 5 14 6 0 27 125 57 -- -- 3.33

Tragg
07-07-2005, 08:52 PM
Now we're suggesting to give up Marte AND Anderson AND McCarthy to rent an oft-injured pitcher off tommy john surgery, which is more that was suggested that we give up for Schmidt and a damn site more than other teams gave up for STUD pitchers like Johnson and Schilling?

Lord help us.

Yes, there are some trades I like. Just not ones where we would be absolutely fleeced.

Oh, and Burnett is another one of those players whose team has been trying to dump him for months. It might have something to do with his incessant trips to the disabled list. It's hard to pitch when on the disabled list. Let's not be the designated dupe.

Brian26
07-07-2005, 09:07 PM
This guy is a power pitcher the Sox haven't had in quite a while. This guy can go out and strike out 10 guys an outing and can go pretty deep in a ball game.

Burnett looked amazing last time he pitched. He was unhittable. I love the idea of this trade.

Marte/Timo/BMac?
Marte/Borchard/BMac?

I say let's go for it.

MIgrenade
07-07-2005, 09:09 PM
The longer we can hold out maybe it will cost us less.

Chicago83
07-07-2005, 09:22 PM
I don't think it's worth giving up McCarthy and Marte for this guy. He is not that much of an improvement over Contrereas, I gurantee if he comes to the sox you will see his ERA bloom, coming from a pitcher friendly NL park to a hitters friendly AL park. We are looking pretty good for a playoff spot and once we're in we can go to a 4 man rotation with Contreras the odd man out. I don't see much of a reason to upgrade the SP, unless you are getting a spot starter who can go to the pen in the playoffs.

Tragg
07-07-2005, 09:34 PM
I hate to be cocky about us, but the only way we don't make the playoffs is if we completely collapse and this guy won't prevent it any more than a serviceable 5th starter (which we may need depending on El Duque).


I agree with '83 - pitchers pitching against national league competition in a pitchers park are sure to see their numbers rise signficantly at the cell. So I don't see him being a top 3 starter for us, so why oh why give up so much? And it's 50/50 that he's on the dl anyway.

Next year's a different story- we could use another top-level pitcher to fend off the Tribe.
But not this year, imo and certainly not a guy for whom the disabled list is home sweet home.
I never thought I'd say it, but give me schmidt over this guy.

ATXBMX
07-07-2005, 09:37 PM
For everyone complaining that he has a 3.75 ERA in a pitchers park, he actually has a 3.33 ERA and of his last 10 starts, 7 have been on the road.

His CAREER ERA is 3.75. (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=150359) He has an ERA over 5 for this month, and his ERA will go up with the league change. Take, for example, Javier Vazquez's switch:
2001 MON: 3.42
2002 MON: 3.91
2003 MON: 3.24
2004 NYY: 4.91

Burnett looked amazing last time he pitched. He was unhittable. I love the idea of this trade.

If giving up 4 runs on 4 hits with 5 walks in 6 innings is good, with 125 pitches no less, than no one should be dissappointed with Contreras.

The main point of trading for a pitcher is because of Hernandez's injuries. So...replace him with a pitcher that is MORE injury prone? That makes no sense. He isn't worth McCarthy or Anderson, much less both.

Tragg
07-07-2005, 09:48 PM
How about trading for Burnett, offering arbitration at the end of the season, and letting him walk? There's no way he accepts, giving the Sox picks to partially compensate for the prospects they'd lose in the trade. Worst case scenario, he accepts arb. and gets injured . . . you're still only on the hook for a one-year deal. Best case scenario, you lose prospects but gain the picks, a late-season rental, and a World Series win.
:gulp:
Developed prospects have a lot more value - either on the field or by trading them - than comensatory picks.
Worst case scenario is he gets injured before he throws 3 innings for us - and we have frittered away prospects.
Now prospects are just that - prospects. But they have value. And with our salary cap, getting a couple of those prospects on the field to produce would help us immeasurably. We have some big, big raises coming due soon.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-07-2005, 09:52 PM
Burnett would be a 4th option for me.

1.) Clemens
2.) Oswalt
3.) Glavine
4.) Schmidt
5.) Burnett
6.) Lilly
7.) Jennings

Banix12
07-07-2005, 10:31 PM
Marte, Borchard, McCarthy, or one of our other starters (no I dont mean for this to be in teal) they may like borchard I mean hes got tons of power, i mean he did hit the longest homer at the cell, and hell didnt the fish take Koch

Hmm, the way Borchard has been tearing up AAA lately it could be possible. They could always use someone with power to hit out of that huge stadium

TDog
07-07-2005, 10:54 PM
No feelings to offer, but the deal couldn't be announced this week, or even at the break.

Burnett went back on the DL today and he won't be starting against the Cubs Sunday as scheduled. In the story about his injury, it said he had to come out after 3 innings in his last start. The current problem is different from he blister that has sent him to the disabled list six times in his career.

I also read an AP story last week that the Marlins nixed a deal to send Burnett to Baltimore. What impressed me was that this baseball insider was reporting the Orioles were offering more -- a lot more -- than Rosenthal is suggesting the Sox would need to give up for him.

Banix12
07-07-2005, 11:00 PM
No feelings to offer, but the deal couldn't be announced this week, or even at the break.

Burnett went back on the DL today and he won't be starting against the Cubs Sunday as scheduled. In the story about his injury, it said he had to come out after 3 innings in his last start. The current problem is different from he blister that has sent him to the disabled list six times in his career.

I also read an AP story last week that the Marlins nixed a deal to send Burnett to Baltimore. What impressed me was that this baseball insider was reporting the Orioles were offering more -- a lot more -- than Rosenthal is suggesting the Sox would need to give up for him.

I'm pretty sure that was Josh Beckett who left with the blister problem, not Burnett

beckett21
07-07-2005, 11:00 PM
No feelings to offer, but the deal couldn't be announced this week, or even at the break.

Burnett went back on the DL today and he won't be starting against the Cubs Sunday as scheduled. In the story about his injury, it said he had to come out after 3 innings in his last start. The current problem is different from he blister that has sent him to the disabled list six times in his career.

I also read an AP story last week that the Marlins nixed a deal to send Burnett to Baltimore. What impressed me was that this baseball insider was reporting the Orioles were offering more -- a lot more -- than Rosenthal is suggesting the Sox would need to give up for him.

You people keep getting Burnett and Beckett confused.

Beckett is the one back on the DL with the strained oblique, unless I missed something else.


Trust me, I would know. :whiner:

TDog
07-07-2005, 11:33 PM
You people keep getting Burnett and Beckett confused.

Beckett is the one back on the DL with the strained oblique, unless I missed something else.


Trust me, I would know. :whiner:

Sorry. I didn't read the DL story. It was verbally related to me in the office as Burnett and when I got home I was too lazy to double check it.

Wow, I could be auditioning for a job on the Trib sports staff.

beckett21
07-07-2005, 11:35 PM
Sorry. I didn't read the DL story. It was verbally related to me in the office as Burnett and when I got home I was too lazy to double check it.

Wow, I could be auditioning for a job on the Trib sports staff.

Just a general criticism, you are not the first person to make this mistake today.

Beckett=frequent DL trips for stupid nagging injuries :(:

Burnett=one major injury two years ago.

Ol' No. 2
07-07-2005, 11:47 PM
I'm still saying NO to another starter. Any trade should be made to set the team for the playoffs. Get Burnett and what do you do with the Cubans, put them both in the pen? Then your bullpen looks like this:

Hermanson
Politte
Takatsu
Vizcaino
Cotts
Hernandez
Contreras

Only one lefty and Hernandez and Contreras aren't really short guys, so you aren't really set up for playoff baseball. Hernandez is a playoff pitcher, so I don't really see that you've improved the rotation much. So you've spent your most valuable assets for something you really didn't need that much and you don't have anything left to trade for a reliever. I don't get it. Doesn't it make more sense to trade for a stud reliever? The Phillies will soon realize they're going nowhere and will trade Billy Wagner. For the package that you're proposing for Burnett I'll bet you could get Wagner. Possibly for less. If you can keep Marte and include Vizcaino instead, your bullpen looks like this:

Hermanson
Wagner
Politte
Takatsu
Marte
Cotts
Contreras

Now you've got three lefties, more short relievers, and still Contreras for long relief. I don't know about you, but I like that A LOT better. Eddie Guardado might be an alternative to Wagner.

beckett21
07-07-2005, 11:59 PM
I'm still saying NO to another starter. Any trade should be made to set the team for the playoffs. Get Burnett and what do you do with the Cubans, put them both in the pen? Then your bullpen looks like this:

Hermanson
Politte
Takatsu
Vizcaino
Cotts
Hernandez
Contreras

Only one lefty and Hernandez and Contreras aren't really short guys, so you aren't really set up for playoff baseball. Hernandez is a playoff pitcher, so I don't really see that you've improved the rotation much. So you've spent your most valuable assets for something you really didn't need that much and you don't have anything left to trade for a reliever. I don't get it. Doesn't it make more sense to trade for a stud reliever? The Phillies will soon realize they're going nowhere and will trade Billy Wagner. For the package that you're proposing for Burnett I'll bet you could get Wagner. Possibly for less. If you can keep Marte and include Vizcaino instead, your bullpen looks like this:

Hermanson
Wagner
Politte
Takatsu
Marte
Cotts
Contreras

Now you've got three lefties, more short relievers, and still Contreras for long relief. I don't know about you, but I like that A LOT better. Eddie Guardado might be an alternative to Wagner.

No argument with your logic. You can never have too much help in the bullpen either.

I do think that if the Sox add another starter, they will try to peddle Contreras in the deal. Not sure that anyone will take him except maybe SF, but I think KW would be looking to upgrade.

Let me also state that I am not a Contreras basher--personally I like the guy, always have. I don't necessarily want to see him get run out of town. I can also see where you would say that adding a Ted Lilly or someone of that caliber would be a lateral move; but Jason Schmidt or AJ Burnett v. Contreras--that's not even close. Major upgrade. Should one of the top 3 falter down the stretch, the team doesn't miss a beat.

My greatest fear is relying on el-tin-man Hernandez and that creaky shoulder of his. If he is healthy great, but we still can't know with great certainty that he will still be pitching come October. I hope he is, but I wouldn't rest my WS hopes on it.

Yes, I know that in the playoffs we only need 3 starters. Figure I'd just say it now before 10 other people do.

ChiSoxPatF
07-08-2005, 12:30 AM
The comparisons to Kerry Wood are a little off. AJ Burnett has been a full-time bigleaguer for 5 seasons. Thus far hes pitched a full 3 and was hurt during two. Both seasons though were the same injury that lasted from the 4 game pitched of the first season to the next year for about half a year. He's recovered (albeit -5mph on his fastball) and he's pitching fairly well. I for one think he's the best pitcher available since Schmidt has been hurt THIS year already and he's younger. He seems to be cheaper than Schmidt and would give the Sox another looking pitcher too.

That said, I'd love to see them get either Schmidt OR Burnett cause both can have Cy Young stuff when they're 100% and are easily better than Contreras.

Valyekrin
07-08-2005, 12:39 AM
Inside Dish: ChiSox join chase for Burnett

By Ken Rosenthal - SportingNews

Think about how imposing the White Sox would be in postseason if Marlins righthander A.J. Burnett joined a rotation that already includes lefthander Mark Buerhle and righties Jon Garland and Freddy Garcia.

The thought evidently has crossed the mind of White Sox GM Ken Williams. The White Sox are pursuing Burnett trade to further boost their rotation, which already ranks second in the American League with a 3.72 ERA.

The chances of the Marlins trading Burnett, however, will reduce if one of their other top starters, righthander Josh Beckett, is out for a prolonged stretch with a strained left oblique muscle. Beckett will miss at least one start and could end up on the disabled list.

The Marlins are seeking three major-league parts for Burnett -- a young starter, a quality reliever and left-handed hitting outfielder. The Orioles' interest in Burnett -- a free agent at the end of the season -- has cooled because of their unwillingness to trade righthander Daniel Cabrera.

The White Sox could offer lefty reliever Damaso Marte as the centerpiece of their package. Class AAA righthander Brandon McCarthy also could appeal to the Marlins, but the White Sox likely would be reluctant to trade him.

If the White Sox refused to include McCarthy, the Marlins could accept prospects along with Marte and then trade a package of young players for another starting pitcher -- perhaps Giants righthander Jason Schmidt.

The Red Sox, a team that has shown past interest in Burnett, also could seek to acquire him if they stick with their plan to use righthander Curt Schilling as a reliever when he returns from ankle surgery.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=insi...v=tsn&type=lgns

Hey Guys Marlins fan here, came to the forum looking for any information about this and noticed you guys didn't see it yet, so figured I'd post it up for you.

Mr. White Sox
07-08-2005, 12:44 AM
hey dude, what's the score? there's the same topic in What's the Score? Check it out.

oh, and :welcome:

Rocklive99
07-08-2005, 12:46 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=insi...v=tsn&type=lgns

Hey Guys Marlins fan here, came to the forum looking for any information about this and noticed you guys didn't see it yet, so figured I'd post it up for you.

Hey, welcome :smile: The rumors here are usually posted in the 'What's the Score (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=18)' forum, and I think there's a thread about it in there.

Nice pitching you guys got there, that NL East is stacked though, tough luck there, especially compared to the teams in the other NL divisions

Valyekrin
07-08-2005, 12:47 AM
Just to clear something up, AJ still throws 100mph, and he throws 97mph or more even in the 9th inning, I should know I go to games and watch him do it. On the Marlins boards talk is about the Marlins dealing Burnett and Mike Lowell, apparently the Sox need a 3rd baseman? The Marlins are looking for 3 major league ready peices, a reliever (Marte), starter (Contreras?) and an OF (Rowand?) those are my best guesses.

Valyekrin
07-08-2005, 12:49 AM
Thanks, and yes being in the NL east is really annoying... however it comforts me to know that the Marlins will win the division. lol. Good luck to the Sox.

JUribe1989
07-08-2005, 12:50 AM
Just to clear something up, AJ still throws 100mph, and he throws 97mph or more even in the 9th inning, I should know I go to games and watch him do it. On the Marlins boards talk is about the Marlins dealing Burnett and Mike Lowell, apparently the Sox need a 3rd baseman? The Marlins are looking for 3 major league ready peices, a reliever (Marte), starter (Contreras?) and an OF (Rowand?) those are my best guesses.

I know it won't happen, but I won't be a Sox fan anymore if they trade Contreras, Marte and Rowand for Burnett.

ATXBMX
07-08-2005, 12:57 AM
The comparisons to Kerry Wood are a little off. AJ Burnett has been a full-time bigleaguer for 5 seasons. Thus far hes pitched a full 3 and was hurt during two. Both seasons though were the same injury that lasted from the 4 game pitched of the first season to the next year for about half a year. He's recovered (albeit -5mph on his fastball) and he's pitching fairly well. I for one think he's the best pitcher available since Schmidt has been hurt THIS year already and he's younger. He seems to be cheaper than Schmidt and would give the Sox another looking pitcher too.

That said, I'd love to see them get either Schmidt OR Burnett cause both can have Cy Young stuff when they're 100% and are easily better than Contreras.

Burnett is cheaper. Cy Young stuff? I don't think so, Cy Young candidates don't have losing records. He's had one good season, and that was three years ago, followed by a bad season and a mediocre one. His good season wasn't even that great (12-9). I'm not convinced that he is healthy. Last year he only threw 120 innings, and he's already at 113.2 this year. And really, Burnett isn't much of an improvement over Contreras. That shouldn't even matter, because we're looking for a pitcher because of El Duque's shoulder and McCarthy's ineffectiveness. There is a lot of hype over Burnett, and I can't understand why.

I'm not campaigning for Schmidt, but he does have better stuff than Burnett. He actually has playoff experience, Burnett does not. He was hurt, but all he needed was some rest. Burnett needed surgery, and he hasn't done much in his career to suggest that he is the missing piece. For that matter, Schmidt hasn't done much this season to suggest he's the missing piece. In the end, it really isn't up to us, I hope Kenny makes the right decision. A season like this needs to be taken advantage of.

Ol' No. 2
07-08-2005, 01:03 AM
No argument with your logic. You can never have too much help in the bullpen either.

I do think that if the Sox add another starter, they will try to peddle Contreras in the deal. Not sure that anyone will take him except maybe SF, but I think KW would be looking to upgrade.

Let me also state that I am not a Contreras basher--personally I like the guy, always have. I don't necessarily want to see him get run out of town. I can also see where you would say that adding a Ted Lilly or someone of that caliber would be a lateral move; but Jason Schmidt or AJ Burnett v. Contreras--that's not even close. Major upgrade. Should one of the top 3 falter down the stretch, the team doesn't miss a beat.

My greatest fear is relying on el-tin-man Hernandez and that creaky shoulder of his. If he is healthy great, but we still can't know with great certainty that he will still be pitching come October. I hope he is, but I wouldn't rest my WS hopes on it.

Yes, I know that in the playoffs we only need 3 starters. Figure I'd just say it now before 10 other people do. I agree that the big unknown is Hernandez. Everything they've said publicly indicates there isn't a problem. Of course, they could be playing it close to the vest so as not to compromise their negotiating position.

halfpricemonday
07-08-2005, 01:09 AM
Just to clear something up, AJ still throws 100mph, and he throws 97mph or more even in the 9th inning, I should know I go to games and watch him do it. On the Marlins boards talk is about the Marlins dealing Burnett and Mike Lowell, apparently the Sox need a 3rd baseman? The Marlins are looking for 3 major league ready peices, a reliever (Marte), starter (Contreras?) and an OF (Rowand?) those are my best guesses.

"Rowand?" More like "ROWAND?!?!?!!?"

I'm sure it's pretty clear there's no way Aaron gets traded, especially in this scenario. Kenny would have A TON of explaining to do if something like this ever went down.

Ol' No. 2
07-08-2005, 01:13 AM
"Rowand?" More like "ROWAND?!?!?!!?"

I'm sure it's pretty clear there's no way Aaron gets traded, especially in this scenario. Kenny would have A TON of explaining to do if something like this ever went down.Why not? They can throw in Uribe, too. I hear they're getting Omar Vizquel and Ken Griffey.

Seriously, the crack pipes are really getting a workout lately.

Valyekrin
07-08-2005, 01:40 AM
Why not? They can throw in Uribe, too. I hear they're getting Omar Vizquel and Ken Griffey.

Seriously, the crack pipes are really getting a workout lately.


LoL, I think that is what trading season does to people. But seriously, the Orioles reportedly were offering Daniel Cabrera, Jorge Julio, and Larry Bigbie for Burnett and Lowell or Encarnacion, and the Yankees were rumored to be offering Stanton / Sheffield (before Stanton was released). My question to Sox fans, is what would be an equivilant trade to the fish involving Chi Sox players, with a RP probably being the most important element?

BeviBall!
07-08-2005, 06:27 AM
If you plan on reaching the ALCS, you need four starters.

maurice
07-08-2005, 11:36 AM
Developed prospects have a lot more value - either on the field or by trading them - than comensatory picks.

Obviously, but you have to give up something to get something. The picks soften the blow.

JermaineDye05
07-08-2005, 11:54 AM
"Rowand?" More like "ROWAND?!?!?!!?"

I'm sure it's pretty clear there's no way Aaron gets traded, especially in this scenario. Kenny would have A TON of explaining to do if something like this ever went down.

dont worry the marlins want a left handed hitting outfielder, i.e. Borchard

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 11:57 AM
I hope we get a pitcher I don't Care who it is as long as we get one. As long as he is better than what we have, we will be a better team.

Chicago83
07-08-2005, 12:30 PM
Doesn't it make more sense to trade for a stud reliever?

Yes it does. This is why I have been confused with all of the SP trade rumors. We already have a dominating four man rotation for the playoffs and a quality fifth starter for the season. When we got Hernandez did anyone expect him to play a full season? Come on, as long as he's ready for the playoffs he has done his job, that's the only thing we have to worry about.

If we are to upgrade we need a reliever (Mabe Wagner like No. 2 said.) or another bat. SP is the last of our worries, if anything I say get a spot starter who can take some of El Duque's starts in the season and then go to the pen. But we don't need a guy like Burnett who is NOT an upgrade over El Duque in the playoffs.

Madvora
07-08-2005, 02:42 PM
Yes it does. This is why I have been confused with all of the SP trade rumors. We already have a dominating four man rotation for the playoffs and a quality fifth starter for the season. When we got Hernandez did anyone expect him to play a full season? Come on, as long as he's ready for the playoffs he has done his job, that's the only thing we have to worry about.

If we are to upgrade we need a reliever (Mabe Wagner like No. 2 said.) or another bat. SP is the last of our worries, if anything I say get a spot starter who can take some of El Duque's starts in the season and then go to the pen. But we don't need a guy like Burnett who is NOT an upgrade over El Duque in the playoffs.
That's a good point and it seems like Glendon Rusch would be a guy to fit that criteria. The thing is that I, personally don't trust Contreras, both in the starting rotation and as a possible reliever in the playoffs. The other thing is that Hernandez is not back in the rotation right now. He's supposedly on his way, but how would we know he won't go right back to being injured on September 30th? You can say that for anybody, but I'd like to have 6 possibilities in the rotation to work from.