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View Full Version : Dye at First..TRADE KONERKO NOW!!


I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 09:12 AM
I don't care that Dye has just played his first major league game at first base. He can easily play this position! The man is coordinated and he's 6'5. Dye is perfect for 1st. Now.....this leads me to throw out the idea that we need to trade Paul Konerko ASAP. He is very overrated and he could bring us good value in a trade. As we all know, Konerko clogs up the basebaths, strikes out too often, pops out too often, doesn't even hit for a medicore average and just doesn't hit in the clutch (FACT!). It's Paul's last year of his overpriced contract and we don't want him re-signed anyways and he, IMHO, hurts us more than he helps. If we trade Konerko we can play Everett, Dye AND Frank EVERYDAY! And Gload is coming back soon to to backup Dye at first or the outfield. Whatever Ozzie wants. We can package Konerko, perhaps Marte, and a top prospect for a STUD pitcher. Dye's ability to play first is a DREAM SCENARIO for us!!! We can rid ourselves of Knoerko (YES!!!!) and we can now get a high value staring pitcher. Is this not the greatest idea you have ever heard in your entire lifetime?!?!? I think it is? What do ya'll think?

MsSoxVixen22
07-07-2005, 09:16 AM
I agree....it sounds good. Dye is HOT right now and he's been coming thru in the clutch and Paulie couldn't hit a watermelon lately. Someone will want Konerko so I agree trade him. We'll need another "STUD" pitcher come October!

:winner

FielderJones
07-07-2005, 09:21 AM
:tealpolice: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)

If that was not meant to be in teal, it should have been.


:smokin: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#) I'll have what he's having.

RKMeibalane
07-07-2005, 09:23 AM
:threadsucks

PicktoCLick72
07-07-2005, 09:24 AM
I was wondering how long it would take for a thread about leaving Dye at first. Now he did a great job yesterday but I wouldn't trade Konerko as we have found our first baseman of the future. It would downgrade our outfield defensively and our infield would also not be any better.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 09:24 AM
I don't care that Dye has just played his first major league game at first base. He can easily play this position! The man is coordinated and he's 6'5. Dye is perfect for 1st. Now.....this leads me to throw out the idea that we need to trade Paul Konerko ASAP. He is very overrated and he could bring us good value in a trade. As we all know, Konerko clogs up the basebaths, strikes out too often, pops out too often, doesn't even hit for a medicore average and just doesn't hit in the clutch (FACT!). It's Paul's last year of his overpriced contract and we don't want him re-signed anyways and he, IMHO, hurts us more than he helps. If we trade Konerko we can play Everett, Dye AND Frank EVERYDAY! And Gload is coming back soon to to backup Dye at first or the outfield. Whatever Ozzie wants. We can package Konerko, perhaps Marte, and a top prospect for a STUD pitcher. Dye's ability to play first is a DREAM SCENARIO for us!!! We can rid ourselves of Knoerko (YES!!!!) and we can now get a high value staring pitcher. Is this not the greatest idea you have ever heard in your entire lifetime?!?!? I think it is? What do ya'll think?

http://www.dumbppl.com/images/images/areyou.jpg

mccoydp
07-07-2005, 09:25 AM
:deadhorse:

Blah Blah Blah...here we go again...another knee jerk "Trade so-and-so because so-and-so did a good job filling in for him tonight!"

See also: Crede/Ozuna, Uribe/Ozuna, Timo/Paulie

munchman33
07-07-2005, 09:29 AM
:threadrules:

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 09:31 AM
Also.....I forgot to mention that either Contreras OR El Duque would replace Marte in the bullpen. If the Sox pull this off we're looking UNREAL. How can we not try this. COME ON KENNY!

Anyways, listen....I know there are Konerko lovers out there. But the dude just doesn't cut it on a consistent basis. Just aadmit that this thread DOES NOT SUCK and that we can really benifit by making this move. Don't just give me the idiotic "This Thread Sucks" tag. Gimme GOOD reasons as to why this move would suck and not work. I say the positives far outweigh the negatives. Just think about it for a second. KONERKO IS EXTREMELY OVERRATED. This must be done. I'm calling Kenny right now to make a deal. I just gotta find out how to reach him on his cell and the deal is done.

munchman33
07-07-2005, 09:35 AM
Whether its this season or next, Konerko should not be our long-term solution at first. He's a one trick pony. With the emergence of Prince Fielder, it's time to snag Overbay from Milwaukee. He's young, has another year or arbitration eligibility, hits for high average, takes walks, plays solid defense, and is LEFT HANDED.

Get it done Kenny.

Baby Fisk
07-07-2005, 09:35 AM
What, still no JENKS FOR CLOSER thread?

Mickster
07-07-2005, 09:35 AM
I'm calling Kenny right now to make a deal. I just gotta find out how to reach him on his cell and the deal is done.

I repeat.........

http://www.dumbppl.com/images/images/areyou.jpg

34 Inch Stick
07-07-2005, 09:37 AM
If it brought Oswalt, sure I would make the trade. However, I have a sneeking suspicion that the Astros have not made the same trip to Amsterdam that Frisbee has made.

RKMeibalane
07-07-2005, 09:37 AM
I think Frisbee is headed for the ****house.

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2005, 09:39 AM
Whether its this season or next, Konerko should not be our long-term solution at first. He's a one trick pony. With the emergence of Prince Fielder, it's time to snag Overbay from Milwaukee. He's young, has another year or arbitration eligibility, hits for high average, takes walks, plays solid defense, and is LEFT HANDED.

Get it done Kenny.

This is a good idea. I could live with Overbay.

Must be that Thornton education talking! :D:

mccoydp
07-07-2005, 09:40 AM
Also.....I forgot to mention that either Contreras OR El Duque would replace Marte in the bullpen. If the Sox pull this off we're looking UNREAL. How can we not try this. COME ON KENNY!

Anyways, listen....I know there are Konerko lovers out there. But the dude just doesn't cut it on a consistent basis. Just aadmit that this thread DOES NOT SUCK and that we can really benifit by making this move. Don't just give me the idiotic "This Thread Sucks" tag. Gimme GOOD reasons as to why this move would suck and not work. I say the positives far outweigh the negatives. Just think about it for a second. KONERKO IS EXTREMELY OVERRATED. This must be done. I'm calling Kenny right now to make a deal. I just gotta find out how to reach him on his cell and the deal is done.

I smell a :dtroll:.

mccoydp
07-07-2005, 09:41 AM
What, still no JENKS FOR CLOSER thread?

Wait, how about Jenks as our fifth starter? He throws really fast!

Baby Fisk
07-07-2005, 09:43 AM
Wait, how about Jenks as our fifth starter?
No way, we're getting Clemens didn't you hear?

Sxy Mofo
07-07-2005, 09:47 AM
This thread is horrible.

SOX ADDICT '73
07-07-2005, 10:02 AM
This thread is horrible.
Do we have an "Understatement of the Week" award?

Brian26
07-07-2005, 10:06 AM
I don't think we should trade PK now, but Dye looked remarkably good last night at first. I was impressed, but I think Dye's just a natural athlete and could probably play anywhere in a pinch.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 10:06 AM
I'd rather play Everett at 1B and keep Dye in RF if we must have the trade Paulie conversation.

Next year, however, I'd be just fine with Dye at 1B and Anderson in RF if he's truly ready for prime time.

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 10:08 AM
I smell a :dtroll:.

It's my opnion and I'm entitled to it. I think it's a good idea...in fact, I know it is! I am not a troll. I truly beleive Konerko sucks and we can get some value for him as long as Dye can be plugged in at first. Harmless stuff, really. I stil llike the Sox as much as ya'll do. Leave it alone. I'm just thrown' the idea out there. Konerko is a 1-d player and we all know it. Some of you guys on this board are soooo sensitive about our players. They are commodities and I say Konerko is one commodity that we can get great value for. Aight?

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 10:10 AM
I repeat.........

http://www.dumbppl.com/images/images/areyou.jpg

Sorry. I don't bother with teal all that much. But I was kidding about the Kenny stuff. Come on guys.

infohawk
07-07-2005, 10:24 AM
Those advocating trading Paulie and keeping Dye at first forget how Paulie helped carry this team in the early going while Dye was struggling. Paulie has not hit for average, but his power numbers and run production are very good.

Iguana775
07-07-2005, 10:32 AM
http://www.dumbppl.com/images/images/areyou.jpg

*****. That is damn funny!

Jiddy78
07-07-2005, 10:33 AM
How many teams in the history of baseball with the best record in the mlb at the break have traded one of their all stars? I'm gonna go with NONE for $500 Bob...

Roger Clemens does not want to leave his family in Texas...

Not to mention that Clemens and Roy Oswalt both play for a team that is only 5.5 out of the wildcard...The SAME team that came back from the dead last year to nearly make the World Series...You know...From .500 to a 36-10 run....

You think these guys will be traded for Paulie?

Jason Schmidt can be had WITHOUT giving up Paulie...So why the hell would we do that?!? Why not keep the depth on the bench???

If I haven't covered somebody, please do tell...

This idea reeks of heinocity...Shame on you Frisbee.

mccoydp
07-07-2005, 10:34 AM
It's my opnion and I'm entitled to it... Aight?

Aight! Sho 'nuff!

Fungo
07-07-2005, 10:38 AM
I'm calling Kenny right now to make a deal. I just gotta find out how to reach him on his cell and the deal is done.God, would I love to listen in on that conversation. That would be precious.

eastchicagosoxfan
07-07-2005, 10:41 AM
I recall a month ago or so there were plenty of calls to trade Dye because he was failing to produce. He has one solid game under his belt. He solves the problem of who Konerko's back-up is. This logic reminds me of Flub fans who think their team is going to the World Series because they won a series from Boston. A month from now, when Paulie is hitting well, and Dye is slumping, there will be calls for Dye to move on, and bring up Anderson, and play Everett more, etc......

Heffalump
07-07-2005, 10:45 AM
What the hell is wrong with these supposed Sox "fans"?......I'm the first to admit that Konerko is not Mr. Clutch with the bat or Mr. Rogers in the clubhouse, but WE ARE THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. Why mess with something that is working so well? Why not just stop bitching and enojy what may turn out to be one of the greatest years in White Sox History?

On the same topic, some fool just called into Silvey and Carmen to bitch about Joe Crede........"He always strikes out".......They should send him to the minors".......Blah, blah blah!!!...............We can't have a freaking MVP at every position...........Crede gets some big hits and plays some bigtime defense. Once again, there is no need to mess with this finely tuned baseball team !!!

Our Offense is crazy deep! What other team has a Everett, Dye, Thomas, or Rowand coming off the bench on any given day?

Now, if Kenny wants to go out and get another first rate starter for some minor leaguers I am all for it..........WIN THIS YEAR OR DIE TRYING........this could be our best chance for a long time !!

GO Sox!

HebrewHammer
07-07-2005, 10:45 AM
God, would I love to listen in on that conversation. That would be precious.

:dtroll:
"Hello, Kenny?
:KW
"Yeah?"

:dtroll:
"I had this great idea, we trade Konerko and leave Dye at first. I know before I wanted to trade Uribe and leave Dye at SS, seriously, hear me out...

:KW
"How did you get this number?"

:dtroll:
"My good buddy ChiSoxTony hooked me up, he overheard you dialing and remembered the tones."

:KW
*click*

:dtroll:
"Hello? Hello? Kenny? Trade Konerko! We have Dye! Kenny!"

daveeym
07-07-2005, 10:48 AM
It's my opnion and I'm entitled to it. I think it's a good idea...in fact, I know it is! I am not a troll. I truly beleive Konerko sucks and we can get some value for him as long as Dye can be plugged in at first. Harmless stuff, really. I stil llike the Sox as much as ya'll do. Leave it alone. I'm just thrown' the idea out there. Konerko is a 1-d player and we all know it. Some of you guys on this board are soooo sensitive about our players. They are commodities and I say Konerko is one commodity that we can get great value for. Aight? I think you need to pull your head out of your ass, in fact I know you do. :roflmao: :roflmao:

I don't want value for PK this year, I want a mother****ing WORLD SERIES TROPHY.

daveeym
07-07-2005, 10:50 AM
. This logic reminds me of Flub fans who think their team is going to the World Series because they won a series from Boston. Excellent point.

Heffalump
07-07-2005, 10:51 AM
I want a mother****ing WORLD SERIES TROPHY.

My new motto.

WhiteSox16K
07-07-2005, 10:51 AM
I suggested this same idea last night to my brother. But I was joking and being SARCASTIC. Any trade would be insane. You don't trade your clean-up hitter in the middle of a historic season.

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 10:53 AM
[QUOTE=Jiddy78]How many teams in the history of baseball with the best record in the mlb at the break have traded one of their all stars? I'm gonna go with NONE for $500 Bob...

Roger Clemens does not want to leave his family in Texas...

Not to mention that Clemens and Roy Oswalt both play for a team that is only 5.5 out of the wildcard...The SAME team that came back from the dead last year to nearly make the World Series...You know...From .500 to a 36-10 run....

You think these guys will be traded for Paulie?

Jason Schmidt can be had WITHOUT giving up Paulie...So why the hell would we do that?!? Why not keep the depth on the bench???


Yes...you are right. But I guess, for me at least, I want to add another pitcher. BUT I think I want Konerko out of the lineup even more than that. Now....I wouldn't give up Konerko for little in return, but if we can deal his 1-dimensional-ass and a prospect or two while at the same time aquire a real good Starting pitcher or even a more balanced bat for our squad......well, I say HELL YES!

QUOTE]

Heffalump
07-07-2005, 10:55 AM
Yes...you are right. But I guess, for me at least, I want to add another pitcher. BUT I think I want Konerko out of the lineup even more than that. Now....I wouldn't give up Konerko for little in return, but if we can deal his 1-dimensional-ass and a prospect or two while at the same time aquire a real good Starting pitcher or even a more balanced bat for our squad......well, I say HELL YES!

QUOTE]

Frisbee, why do you despise Konerko so much? Did he refuse to sign your baseball? Did he hit on your girlfriend? Seriously, as a Sox fan you are not making ANY sense whatsoever.

moochpuppy
07-07-2005, 10:58 AM
It would downgrade our outfield defensively and our infield would also not be any better.

Not if those Griffey rumors are true.

Randar68
07-07-2005, 11:04 AM
Why is it so preposterous to want to trade a middle of the order hitter who is:

1) average defensively
2) Is a .260 hitter
3) Has a SLG% under .500
4) runs the bases like he is carrying a piano on his back

This team can be a better team if the right moves are made, a team better able to produce runs.

If that is Dye at 1st and OF help coming via trade, or 1st base coming via trade, or 3rd base or pitcher, or closer, or whatever.

Being 31 games over .500 does not mean you have to be complacent.

Randar68
07-07-2005, 11:05 AM
Frisbee, why do you despise Konerko so much? Did he refuse to sign your baseball? Did he hit on your girlfriend? Seriously, as a Sox fan you are not making ANY sense whatsoever.

He's a .260 hitter that annually leads the Universe in GIDP's and is as slow as a sloth. Why must he be defended at all costs?

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 11:06 AM
God, would I love to listen in on that conversation. That would be precious.


Yeah...he's our cleanup hitter but Konerko HAS NO BUSINESS being the #4 hitter. His numbers with runners in scoring postion are horrendous. Konerko should bat 6th. But for some reason he's been entrenched in the cleanup spot. I don't like it. But hey....we're doing pretty damn well this year. I just think trading him makes us even better. ESPECIALLY if we can get a top flight starter by packaging Konerko with Marte and a minor leaguer. Make it happen.

White Sox Josh
07-07-2005, 11:08 AM
I don't care that Dye has just played his first major league game at first base. He can easily play this position! The man is coordinated and he's 6'5. Dye is perfect for 1st. Now.....this leads me to throw out the idea that we need to trade Paul Konerko ASAP. He is very overrated and he could bring us good value in a trade. As we all know, Konerko clogs up the basebaths, strikes out too often, pops out too often, doesn't even hit for a medicore average and just doesn't hit in the clutch (FACT!). It's Paul's last year of his overpriced contract and we don't want him re-signed anyways and he, IMHO, hurts us more than he helps. If we trade Konerko we can play Everett, Dye AND Frank EVERYDAY! And Gload is coming back soon to to backup Dye at first or the outfield. Whatever Ozzie wants. We can package Konerko, perhaps Marte, and a top prospect for a STUD pitcher. Dye's ability to play first is a DREAM SCENARIO for us!!! We can rid ourselves of Knoerko (YES!!!!) and we can now get a high value staring pitcher. Is this not the greatest idea you have ever heard in your entire lifetime?!?!? I think it is? What do ya'll think?NO! Please Put down the Crack pipe before posting here. Konerko is the Leader in the Clubhouse. He is an All Star to.
:threadsucks
:threadblows:

SOXSINCE'70
07-07-2005, 11:09 AM
No way, we're getting Clemens didn't you hear?

Whatever happened to getting Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez??:roflmao: :roflmao:

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 11:09 AM
Why is it so preposterous to want to trade a middle of the order hitter who is:

1) average defensively
2) Is a .260 hitter
3) Has a SLG% under .500
4) runs the bases like he is carrying a piano on his back

This team can be a better team if the right moves are made, a team better able to produce runs.

If that is Dye at 1st and OF help coming via trade, or 1st base coming via trade, or 3rd base or pitcher, or closer, or whatever.

Being 31 games over .500 does not mean you have to be complacent.


THANK YOU!! I totally agree. We can really make ourselves even better by dealing him assuming that Dye is capable. And I really think Dye can do 1st base. It's the easiest position in baseball. Let's do it!

daveeym
07-07-2005, 11:11 AM
Why is it so preposterous to want to trade a middle of the order hitter who is:

1) average defensively
2) Is a .260 hitter
3) Has a SLG% under .500
4) runs the bases like he is carrying a piano on his back

This team can be a better team if the right moves are made, a team better able to produce runs.

If that is Dye at 1st and OF help coming via trade, or 1st base coming via trade, or 3rd base or pitcher, or closer, or whatever.

Being 31 games over .500 does not mean you have to be complacent. No, but it doesn't mean you trash your defense that has been part of the PITCHING AND DEFENSE One Two punch that's gotten you 31 games over. That's just ****ing stupid after Dye made his first major league start at 1b and then we're stuck with CC in right. Frisbee and you must have missed the first inning and Dino's belly flop in right.

munchman33
07-07-2005, 11:12 AM
Randar you are the only one in this entire thread making any sense.

Heffalump
07-07-2005, 11:12 AM
Yeah...he's our cleanup hitter but Konerko HAS NO BUSINESS being the #4 hitter. His numbers with runners in scoring postion are horrendous. Konerko should bat 6th. But for some reason he's been entrenched in the cleanup spot. I don't like it. But hey....we're doing pretty damn well this year. I just think trading him makes us even better. ESPECIALLY if we can get a top flight starter by packaging Konerko with Marte and a minor leaguer. Make it happen.

All I have to say is I'm glad Kenny Williams is not like this guy.....creating trades just to create trades.

It also cracks me up that Jermaine Dye plays one game at first base and suddenly he is a gold glove starting firstbaseman and Carl Everett is our new fulltime rightfielder.

Finally, It saddens me that there are Sox fans that "think" this way. Please remove yourself to the Northside.

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 11:13 AM
NO! Please Put down the Crack pipe before posting here. Konerko is the Leader in the Clubhouse. He is an All Star to.
:threadsucks
:threadblows:


Josh.....you make great points! (TEAL). He's an all-star. WOW! We can never trade him!! (TEAL...again). Konerko has NO business being in this game. The players voted him in. Why? Cause he has a reputation for being good. Which, of course, he is not. Read what I have to say before you just start typing moronic crap. This reply sucks. I don't do tags so I'll just tell ya. Again....THIS REPLY SUCKS!

mdep524
07-07-2005, 11:19 AM
Haha, I was just waiting for this thread to come up. I knew someone would write this stuff in the strongest possible terms, and then everyone else would get all defensive with "this thread sucks" and troll accusations and so forth.

Fact is, you can't just trade Konerko because Dye had one game at first base, especially with the team on a roll the way they are now. There is no urgency to do a move like this.

But I wish some of you aPaulogists would wake up and smell the coffee about Paule- he's not that great in any regard. If there were a situation in a few weeks where we could improve this team by trading Paule- who's All Star selection guarantees he will be nationall overrated and overvalued, I say do it.

I do like the look of this team with Dye at first- I would go so far as to suggest that with a little practice Dye would be a superior defensive first baseman than Paulie anyway. So let's not get all over Frisbee's back, or declare this thread R***house worth, because it's a legitimate thread.

White Sox Josh
07-07-2005, 11:20 AM
Josh.....you make great points! (TEAL). He's an all-star. WOW! We can never trade him!! (TEAL...again). Konerko has NO business being in this game. The players voted him in. Why? Cause he has a reputation for being good. Which, of course, he is not. Read what I have to say before you just start typing moronic crap. This reply sucks. I don't do tags so I'll just tell ya. Again....THIS REPLY SUCKS!Look what i am trying to say is that Konerko means a lot more to this team than just stats. No who was better in the AL at 1B than him besides Teixeira? Nobody. He earned it simply because 1B is a weak position in the AL this year. Dye is great in RF and I really don't want Everett there on a daily basis. Dye just played his first game at 1B in the Majors. He was good their however that doesn't make him a good defensive 1B.

daveeym
07-07-2005, 11:22 AM
Josh.....you make great points! (TEAL). He's an all-star. WOW! We can never trade him!! (TEAL...again). Konerko has NO business being in this game. The players voted him in. Why? Cause he has a reputation for being good. Which, of course, he is not. Read what I have to say before you just start typing moronic crap. This reply sucks. I don't do tags so I'll just tell ya. Again....THIS REPLY SUCKS!

FRISBEE.....you make great points! (TEAL). He's an all-star. WOW! We can never trade him!! (TEAL...again). Konerko has NO business being in this game. The players voted him in. Why? Cause he has a reputation for being good. Which, of course, he is not. Read what I have to say before you just start typing moronic crap. This reply sucks. I don't do tags so I'll just tell ya. Again....THIS REPLY SUCKS!


All you've done is bash konerko and offered no REALISTIC alternative. We all know what his limitations are. Putting Dye at first and Dino in right makes this team WORSE but I guess it gets that bum konerko off the team. The "cut off your nose to spite your face" nature of this thread is why you're getting flamed and accussed of being a troll.

Heffalump
07-07-2005, 11:26 AM
Haha, I was just waiting for this thread to come up. I knew someone would write this stuff in the strongest possible terms, and then everyone else would get all defensive with "this thread sucks" and troll accusations and so forth.

Fact is, you can't just trade Konerko because Dye had one game at first base, especially with the team on a roll the way they are now. There is no urgency to do a move like this.

But I wish some of you aPaulogists would wake up and smell the coffee about Paule- he's not that great in any regard. If there were a situation in a few weeks where we could improve this team by trading Paule- who's All Star selection guarantees he will be nationall overrated and overvalued, I say do it.

I do like the look of this team with Dye at first- I would go so far as to suggest that with a little practice Dye would be a superior defensive first baseman than Paulie anyway. So let's not get all over Frisbee's back, or declare this thread R***house worth, because it's a legitimate thread.


While I know that Paulie is not Pujols, he is not a POS either. It is crazy talk to think that Dye should/could be our full-time first baseman after playing one game there. Plus, as another poster mentioned, plugging right field with Everett is another defensive downgrade. We CANNOT get pulled back into the OFFENSE, OFFENSE, OFFENSE mentality. Pitching and defense has gotten us where we are at now.

I agree with you that if the right deal came up for a stud pitcher, Kenny should pull the trigger, but the DUMP KONERKO NOW talk is purely insane.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 11:27 AM
Why is it so preposterous to want to trade a middle of the order hitter who is:

1) average defensively
2) Is a .260 hitter
3) Has a SLG% under .500
4) runs the bases like he is carrying a piano on his back

This team can be a better team if the right moves are made, a team better able to produce runs.

If that is Dye at 1st and OF help coming via trade, or 1st base coming via trade, or 3rd base or pitcher, or closer, or whatever.

Being 31 games over .500 does not mean you have to be complacent.

I agree that being 31 games over .500 should not make a team complacent.

So you would be willing to put Dye at 1B who has a combined total of 1 game experience on a contending team????

How about actually putting someone with experience there? Hell, why not Timo? He played 1B in Japan......

Randar, I usually agree with what you say but this is ridiculous even for you.

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 11:33 AM
Haha, I was just waiting for this thread to come up. I knew someone would write this stuff in the strongest possible terms, and then everyone else would get all defensive with "this thread sucks" and troll accusations and so forth.

Fact is, you can't just trade Konerko because Dye had one game at first base, especially with the team on a roll the way they are now. There is no urgency to do a move like this.

But I wish some of you aPaulogists would wake up and smell the coffee about Paule- he's not that great in any regard. If there were a situation in a few weeks where we could improve this team by trading Paule- who's All Star selection guarantees he will be nationall overrated and overvalued, I say do it.

I do like the look of this team with Dye at first- I would go so far as to suggest that with a little practice Dye would be a superior defensive first baseman than Paulie anyway. So let's not get all over Frisbee's back, or declare this thread R***house worth, because it's a legitimate thread.



That's very true. I like your outlook about this thread. Valid points. It shouldn't be one extreme or the other. But obviously, I am leaning towards trading PK. Frankly, Dye could play 10 games at first and he'd be better than Konerko.

mccoydp
07-07-2005, 11:34 AM
My cognitive skills tell me that this thread is dangerously close to going to the ****house...for other reasons than legitimacy.

Realist
07-07-2005, 11:34 AM
This thread gives me a stomachache and a headache for many different reasons. Good points are made on both sides but altogether this thread makes for one big mess.

Suddenly we're playing "Kerplunk" with the team chemistry after one game. "Yeah yeah. Pull that stick. I betcha the marbles don't fall."

daveeym
07-07-2005, 11:50 AM
This thread gives me a stomachache and a headache for many different reasons. Good points are made on both sides but altogether this thread makes for one big mess.

Suddenly we're playing "Kerplunk" with the team chemistry after one game. "Yeah yeah. Pull that stick. I betcha the marbles don't fall." Love the Kerplunk reference. Seriously, this would be a reasonable discussion if it was a discussion about the future, aka next year, absolutely horrible when mentioned in terms of the trading deadline and 31 games up. Kenny spent all offseason plugging 5 or 6 holes and because of peoples dislike of Konerko they want to basically create a mininum of 3 holes by playing one guy out of position, degrading another position and creating a hole by throwing Marte in the deal.

TheOldRoman
07-07-2005, 11:54 AM
Watching yesterday's game, the first thing I thought when Carl belly flopped going for that ball in the first inning "oh well, Dye makes that play 99 times out of 100." Aside from his horrible play early in the year (which was probably due to a mental block) Dye has been great in the field. He is showing us why he was a gold glover. Also, his cannon has saved us more than a few runs.

I'm not defending Konerko, but there is no way you can trade him at this point. Not just from chemistry standpoint, but because it makes your outfield defense so much worse. Dye had one good game at first, oh well. The Sox might try him there a few more times to see if they can move him to first next season, but like it or not, Paulie will finish the season as our first baseman.

Rocky Soprano
07-07-2005, 11:55 AM
NO! Please Put down the Crack pipe before posting here. Konerko is the Leader in the Clubhouse. He is an All Star to.


Konerko is the leader in the Clubhouse? The only thing he leads in is putting his foot in his mouth.

Jjav829
07-07-2005, 11:55 AM
I don't care that Dye has just played his first major league game at first base. He can easily play this position! The man is coordinated and he's 6'5. Dye is perfect for 1st. Now.....this leads me to throw out the idea that we need to trade Paul Konerko ASAP. He is very overrated and he could bring us good value in a trade. As we all know, Konerko clogs up the basebaths, strikes out too often, pops out too often, doesn't even hit for a medicore average and just doesn't hit in the clutch (FACT!). It's Paul's last year of his overpriced contract and we don't want him re-signed anyways and he, IMHO, hurts us more than he helps. If we trade Konerko we can play Everett, Dye AND Frank EVERYDAY! And Gload is coming back soon to to backup Dye at first or the outfield. Whatever Ozzie wants. We can package Konerko, perhaps Marte, and a top prospect for a STUD pitcher. Dye's ability to play first is a DREAM SCENARIO for us!!! We can rid ourselves of Knoerko (YES!!!!) and we can now get a high value staring pitcher. Is this not the greatest idea you have ever heard in your entire lifetime?!?!? I think it is? What do ya'll think?

Ladies and gentlemen of the chat, I give you the winner of my question on who would be the first to start this ridiculous thread. Too bad none of you picked the correct answer.

Oh, and BTW, this thread is beyond ridiculous.

Jiddy78
07-07-2005, 11:56 AM
Haha, I was just waiting for this thread to come up. I knew someone would write this stuff in the strongest possible terms, and then everyone else would get all defensive with "this thread sucks" and troll accusations and so forth.

Fact is, you can't just trade Konerko because Dye had one game at first base, especially with the team on a roll the way they are now. There is no urgency to do a move like this.

But I wish some of you aPaulogists would wake up and smell the coffee about Paule- he's not that great in any regard. If there were a situation in a few weeks where we could improve this team by trading Paule- who's All Star selection guarantees he will be nationall overrated and overvalued, I say do it.

I do like the look of this team with Dye at first- I would go so far as to suggest that with a little practice Dye would be a superior defensive first baseman than Paulie anyway. So let's not get all over Frisbee's back, or declare this thread R***house worth, because it's a legitimate thread.


#1 Dye's defensive superiority at first would be all but dwarfed by Everett's inferiority at right...

#2 Nationally overrated?!? I couldn't disagree more. Paulie was voted an all-star by his peers...Not the media...

#3 Our situation does not allow for us to grab a top tier pitcher...Top level pitchers are much more valued that first basemen on the market, Paulie could not garner any of the guys that we covet...and the ones on the block wouldn't be requesting soon-to-be FA's with large salary numbers, they would be requesting prospects...

I'm still waiting to see a scenario outside of Jason Schmidt, Roy Oswalt and Clemens (all which have been discussed prior) that is actually feasible for us with or without including Paulie...I see no possibilities...

#4 blah blah blah Team chemistry Blah Blah Blah Best team in baseball Blah Blah Blah Why fix something that isn't broken Blah Blah Blah

Jjav829
07-07-2005, 12:01 PM
He's a .260 hitter that annually leads the Universe in GIDP's and is as slow as a sloth. Why must he be defended at all costs?

He has 7 DPs this year. That puts him in a tie for 66th in the majors, behind the likes of: Sean Casey (league leader at 19), Jermaine Dye (Sox leader with 12), Brian Giles, Edgar Renteria, Miguel Tejada, Lyle Overbay, Miguel Cabrera, Andruw Jones, Todd Helton, Hideki Matsui, Melvin Mora, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols, and Tadahito Iguchi. It also puts him in a tie with Vlad Guerrero, Carlos Delgado, Shannon Stewart, David Ortiz, Cesar Izturis, and Aaron Rowand.

White Sox Josh
07-07-2005, 12:01 PM
Konerko is the leader in the Clubhouse? The only thing he leads in is putting his foot in his mouth.um Ozzie has pretty much come out and said that he was the leader in the clubhouse. Their was a reason he wasn't traded and Lee was.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 12:02 PM
There[sic] was a reason he wasn't traded and Lee was.

Yep there was. Milwaukee didn't want Konerko.

White Sox Josh
07-07-2005, 12:04 PM
Yep there was. Milwaukee didn't want Konerko.No. The only trade he might of been in was the RJ one. That's it.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 12:04 PM
No. The only trade he might of been in was the RJ one. That's it.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Pasqua's Posers
07-07-2005, 12:05 PM
I don't care that Dye has just played his first major league game at first base. He can easily play this position! The man is coordinated and he's 6'5. Dye is perfect for 1st. Now.....this leads me to throw out the idea that we need to trade Paul Konerko ASAP. He is very overrated and he could bring us good value in a trade. As we all know, Konerko clogs up the basebaths, strikes out too often, pops out too often, doesn't even hit for a medicore average and just doesn't hit in the clutch (FACT!). It's Paul's last year of his overpriced contract and we don't want him re-signed anyways and he, IMHO, hurts us more than he helps. If we trade Konerko we can play Everett, Dye AND Frank EVERYDAY! And Gload is coming back soon to to backup Dye at first or the outfield. Whatever Ozzie wants. We can package Konerko, perhaps Marte, and a top prospect for a STUD pitcher. Dye's ability to play first is a DREAM SCENARIO for us!!! We can rid ourselves of Knoerko (YES!!!!) and we can now get a high value staring pitcher. Is this not the greatest idea you have ever heard in your entire lifetime?!?!? I think it is? What do ya'll think?

I think you're smoking dope...:kukoo:

Realist
07-07-2005, 12:08 PM
He has 7 DPs this year. That puts him in a tie for 66th in the majors, behind the likes of: Sean Casey (league leader at 19), Jermaine Dye (Sox leader with 12)...

Dye had hit into 12 DPs this year? :?:

Trade or bench Dye now! http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/image.php?u=2019&type=profile&dateline=1102794074

You're exactly right. This thread is beyond rediculous.

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 12:09 PM
Ladies and gentlemen of the chat, I give you the winner of my question on who would be the first to start this ridiculous thread. Too bad none of you picked the correct answer.

Oh, and BTW, this thread is beyond ridiculous.


I respectfully disagree. This thread is NOT ridiculous. But hey, that's just your opinion. Konerko sucks.

The Dude
07-07-2005, 12:09 PM
I don't care that Dye has just played his first major league game at first base. He can easily play this position! The man is coordinated and he's 6'5. Dye is perfect for 1st. Now.....this leads me to throw out the idea that we need to trade Paul Konerko ASAP. He is very overrated and he could bring us good value in a trade. As we all know, Konerko clogs up the basebaths, strikes out too often, pops out too often, doesn't even hit for a medicore average and just doesn't hit in the clutch (FACT!). It's Paul's last year of his overpriced contract and we don't want him re-signed anyways and he, IMHO, hurts us more than he helps. If we trade Konerko we can play Everett, Dye AND Frank EVERYDAY! And Gload is coming back soon to to backup Dye at first or the outfield. Whatever Ozzie wants. We can package Konerko, perhaps Marte, and a top prospect for a STUD pitcher. Dye's ability to play first is a DREAM SCENARIO for us!!! We can rid ourselves of Knoerko (YES!!!!) and we can now get a high value staring pitcher. Is this not the greatest idea you have ever heard in your entire lifetime?!?!? I think it is? What do ya'll think?

to quote Michael Bolton and Samir Nagheenanajar

"That is the worst idea I've ever heard."
"Yes, this is horrible, this idea."

Tom is that you???
http://movie.starblvd.net/movie/film/2001/TheFluffer/11.jpg
"Yes I go by the name of frisbee time"

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:10 PM
NO! Please Put down the Crack pipe before posting here. Konerko is the Leader in the Clubhouse. He is an All Star to.



He's no Joe Crede

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:12 PM
Hell, why not Timo? He played 1B in Japan......

Randar, I usually agree with what you say but this is ridiculous even for you.

The difference is Dye is an athlete who has shown he can play different positions (SS for example:redneck ). He also has the body type for a first baseman...a much better body type than Paulie, for example.

Timo Shmimo. I won't even dignify that with a response:tongue:

mdep524
07-07-2005, 12:13 PM
No. The only trade he might of been in was the RJ one. That's it. :roflmao: :roflmao:

:bs:

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:15 PM
No. The only trade he might of been in was the RJ one. That's it.

That's because the Dbacks were the only team eccentric enough to trade FOR an 8 million dollar first baseman with average defense, average average, and good power (only for HR though)

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:16 PM
let me make clear: I don't want to "trade Konerko" for the expressed purpose of putting JD at 1st. If we trade Konerko it better be for something BIG.

I'm just amused at the friends of paulie swooping to the rescue of their slumping fence swinging bad mouthing slugger

mdep524
07-07-2005, 12:16 PM
to quote Michael Bolton and Samir Nagheenanajar

"That is the worst idea I've ever heard."
"Yes, this is horrible, this idea."

Tom is that you???
http://movie.starblvd.net/movie/film/2001/TheFluffer/11.jpg
"Yes I go by the name of frisbee time" LOL. Let's not Jump to Conclusions about a Konerko trade just yet. :cool:

White Sox Josh
07-07-2005, 12:19 PM
LOL. Let's not Jump to Conclusions about a Konerko trade just yet.Phenominal Movie. i luv how Tom is always running around saying he is going to be fired and that he is screwed.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 12:21 PM
The difference is Dye is an athlete who has shown he can play different positions (SS for example:redneck ). He also has the body type for a first baseman...a much better body type than Paulie, for example.

Timo Shmimo. I won't even dignify that with a response:tongue:

I have no doubt that Dye could eventually play 1B with regularity. Do you honestly want to try now? This year? After the season that we have had so far?

I am not a Konerko fan and certainly don't want him next year. But to "tinker" in such a way that gives Dye his experience at first while the Sox are in the middle of a pennant run when we finally have a real shot at winning......no thanks.

SOXfnNlansing
07-07-2005, 12:27 PM
Frisbee, are you the guy who got locked up over the 4th when your drunk g/f 'slipped' on a puddle in the sports bar?:dtroll:

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:29 PM
I have no doubt that Dye could eventually play 1B with regularity. Do you honestly want to try now? This year? After the season that we have had so far?

I am not a Konerko fan and certainly don't want him next year. But to "tinker" in such a way that gives Dye his experience at first while the Sox are in the middle of a pennant run when we finally have a real shot at winning......no thanks.

What if, say, we could trade Konerko NOW for a starting pitcher or a lockdown closer?

I'm not speaking specifically or realistically, just using some players as examples of what it would take for me to part with Konerko.

If we could get a Lidge or a Wagner for Konerko, or an Oswalt or Schmidt, then yes, I would take the chance of Dye or Everett at first.

But yes, you're right. Most likely I'd prefer to see Dye in right and Everett at first.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 12:43 PM
What if, say, we could trade Konerko NOW for a starting pitcher or a lockdown closer?

I'm not speaking specifically or realistically, just using some players as examples of what it would take for me to part with Konerko.

If we could get a Lidge or a Wagner for Konerko, or an Oswalt or Schmidt, then yes, I would take the chance of Dye or Everett at first.

But yes, you're right. Most likely I'd prefer to see Dye in right and Everett at first.

Realistically, who would give up a 3 month rental (ex. Oswalt, Schmidt, Wagner, Clemons.....) for a 3 month rental of a slow-footed, foot-in-mouth Konerko? I can honestly say that I can not even think of one scenario where Konerko is traded. Who would honestly want him? Teams that are trading the desirable players (Oswalt, Schmidt, Wagner, Clemons....) are looking to get younger (read: cheaper) MLB ready players. Konerko does not fit the bill.

balke
07-07-2005, 12:49 PM
Dye has one game at first, and Paulie goes on great hot streaks. It would be really stupid to try what you are suggesting... whoever started this thread. Give up hitting for a pitcher? Do we have hitting to spare? I was all about Konerko being gone in the offseason instead of CLee, but it wasn't possible. But I do realize Paulie is the second biggest hitting threat next to Frank on this team, and he shouldn't go anywhere. Dye has been a great hitter lately, but Dye He's also really good in RF. Yesterday Everett didn't have the range to get to a duck snort that Dye could've. I like the outfield Range, Dye's arm, and the hitting through the lineup. Keep it in tact.

slavko
07-07-2005, 12:50 PM
A germ or two of truth among the chaff.....But in the middle of a magic season?????

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:50 PM
Realistically, who would give up a 3 month rental (ex. Oswalt, Schmidt, Wagner, Clemons.....) for a 3 month rental of a slow-footed, foot-in-mouth Konerko? I can honestly say that I can not even think of one scenario where Konerko is traded. Who would honestly want him? Teams that are trading the desirable players (Oswalt, Schmidt, Wagner, Clemons....) are looking to get younger (read: cheaper) MLB ready players. Konerko does not fit the bill.

I doubt anyone would want him. However, if we were to seal some sort of miracle deal, I'm not in the camp of people on this board (and there are many) who think that Konerko is a crucial part of our success.

That's all I'm saying.

I think that Frisbee is also over the top in saying that we should trade him just to trade him and stick Dye at first.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 12:51 PM
Do we have hitting to spare?

Yes.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2005, 01:00 PM
Now that Jermaine is flashing his power stroke and hitting for decent average (after a terrible April), isn't it at least reasonable to think about moving him up in the order and giving him a few more starts at first?

For the moment, isn't Dye a better option as the cleanup hitter, since over the last week, Paulie's OPS has been a POS (.490!)? Perhaps Paulie needs to sit out the Oakland series, go to Detroit and then come back mentally and physically rested for the second half.

No player should be untouchable. Not even an All-Star, especially one who only plays one position that is among the easiest to fill. If his peers think that highly of him, perhaps his trade value is high right now.

This might be a good time to take another look at Aubrey Huff. He doesn't have a burdensome contract, he can play multiple positions (including first base), he's left-handed and he hits for a nice average and, based on the last three games, for decent power at the Cell. After 2005, the Sox could allow Konerko and Everett to depart as free agents because Huff, Dye, and Gload would give the Sox a nice mix of players whom Ozzie can start in both the outfield and at first base. Consider also that Anderson and Rogowski presumably would be ready to play as needed as well.

Iwritecode
07-07-2005, 01:00 PM
I truly beleive Konerko sucks and we can get some value for him as long as Dye can be plugged in at first.


Does anyone else see the completely obvious irony in this statement? :?:

In one breath you are saying: "Konerko sucks! The first place Chicago White Sox don't need his sorry 1-dimensonal ass. Let's get rid of him!"

In the next breath you are expecting another team to take him in exchange for an ALL-STAR pitcher!?!

:kukoo:

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 01:02 PM
[QUOTE=Frater Perdurabo]Now that Jermaine is flashing his power stroke and hitting for decent average (after a terrible April), isn't it at least reasonable to think about moving him up in the order?QUOTE]

nah man...have you seen his 5th spot/6th spot splits? keep him there!!

maurice
07-07-2005, 01:14 PM
OMG! NO NO NO! Kenny absolutely CANNOT trade Konerko . . .





. . . because nobody wants his bloated contract (1/2 of $8.75 mil. + a $1 mil. trade kicker, IIRC). Any trade would require KW to pony up millions. If anybody were willing to take Konerko, he would have been jettisoned last offseason.

IMHO, Konerko will be gone at the season's end. Hopefully, we'll get some picks out of it. I wouldn't mind Dye at 1B, but if you want to see that on a regular basis you'll have to make like a cub fan and "wait 'til next year."

NealCotts4Life
07-07-2005, 01:15 PM
I love how people want the person with the most throwing strength on the team to move to a position that requires a below average arm. Also, CARL at 1st?!, Are you loco ese? Good Gravy, some people just lack sense.

phanreign
07-07-2005, 01:18 PM
If it ain't broke don't fix it! Next thing we'll want is Frank playing first.

John
phanreign@aol.com
http://www.phantomreign.net (http://www.phantomreign.net/)

JB98
07-07-2005, 01:21 PM
We are 57-26. The idea that we should trade any of our core players is just plain ludicrous. I didn't even read this thread, yet I'm quite certain that it blows. Next.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 01:24 PM
I love how people want the person with the most throwing strength on the team to move to a position that requires a below average arm. Also, CARL at 1st?!, Are you loco ese? Good Gravy, some people just lack sense.

Wait - so you're saying he's better suited for the outfield?

What makes me so crazy for wanting Carl at first. Maybe I'm missing something.

Englighten me.

FielderJones
07-07-2005, 01:24 PM
Next thing we'll want is Frank playing first.

:tealpolice: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#):tealtutor: (misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)

JB98
07-07-2005, 01:25 PM
If it ain't broke don't fix it! Next thing we'll want is Frank playing first.

All we really need is Gload to come back healthy. That way, we'll have somebody who can give Konerko a break now and then.

The idea that we should convert one of our outfielders into a first baseman midseason is just laughably stupid. It's not worthy of response, frankly.

The Dude
07-07-2005, 01:45 PM
Wheres Hangar when you need him with all the Dye sucks comments???:D:

maurice
07-07-2005, 01:47 PM
a position that requires a below average arm.

I'm pretty sure there's no position that "requires" a below-average arm. If that were the case, Konerko would be disqualified from 1B. He came up as a catcher and has a good arm. The reason he plays 1B is because he lacks the other physical traits necessary to play anywhere other than 1B. This sometimes happens to aging OFers as well, causing them to shift to 1B.

Besides, if Dye moves to 1B next season, his probable replacement is Anderson, not Everett. Anderson has an excellent arm and much better range than Dye.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2005, 02:03 PM
This is something I thought of while reading the Gargantuan Schmidt rumour thread in WTS, but is more pertinent to the Dye/Konerko issue.


http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x07-lad1.htm


Truthfully, I'm far more intrigued by the idea Ladewski floats toward the end of his column.

For instance, the Sox could make a pitch for Cincinnati center fielder Ken Griffey Jr., who at last check was on a pace for 30 home runs and 100-plus RBI and appears to be over his injury problems. Griffey is a left-handed swinger and has loads of postseason experience, both of which the Sox lack.

Try this deeppink/what's the score fantasy on for size:

What if the Sox could get Junior in a trade with the Reds? Sure, he's expensive and has a history of injuries. However, he's played 79 healthy games in 2005 with a .283 AVG, 16 homers and 55 RBI. He has a .855 OPS and .507 SLG, primarily as the Reds' cleanup hitter. His OPS and AVG steadily have improved each month throughout 2005.

Yes, he's making $10.3 million this year. But that's not a lot more than Paul Konerko, who's a free agent after this season. Anyway, let's say Jermaine Dye can play first base more often, with Ross Gload as a capable LHB backup. And let's say the Sox could get some kind of deal (probably involving a third and fourth team) in which Konerko and Everett depart to other teams looking to add power while Griffey comes here.

In a way, Griffey would replace both Konerko and Everett, yet the Sox would retain a great deal of flexibility to cover for possible injuries. Griffey could play some right field yet also spell Rowand in center. Part of the objection to Dye playing first is that Everett isn't so good in right. Well, Griffey would be a whole lot better than Everett in right, meaning Dye would be free to be the primary 1B.

Imagine a lineup of: Pods - Iguchi - Frank - Griffey - Dye - Pierzynski - Rowand - Crede - Uribe

Making Everett and Konerko expendable to teams who want veteran bats for the stretch run (Houston? Atlanta? Yankees?) might yield the Sox a number of prospects that they then could turn around and trade for a legitimate starting pitcher.

What's that you say? Money's the problem? Well, when the Sox win the World Series, money won't be an issue at all.

:supernana:

fox23
07-07-2005, 02:07 PM
While I fully agree that trading Konerko is a bad idea, some of you guys really need to just relax. Unless you're going to give a reason why this would be a bad idea, just don't post. There's got to be a at least a dozen useless posts simply saying "this thread sucks" and the like. If you don't like the thread, just don't say anything. If it does suck, its just going to die its own little death then without a ton of people ripping on it.

And it isn't as if this guy is saying something completely ridiculous here, like trade Konerko for a bag of wheat or something. While most of us think he's wrong in his idea, that's why this is a discussion board, where we can openly discuss such things.

Sorry for my rant, but I've seen a lot of this since I stumbled upon this website a few months ago.

mweflen
07-07-2005, 02:07 PM
This is something I thought of while reading the Gargantuan Schmidt rumour thread in WTS, but is more pertinent to the Dye/Konerko issue.



Truthfully, I'm far more intrigued by the idea Ladewski floats toward the end of his column.



Try this deeppink/what's the score fantasy on for size:

What if the Sox could get Junior in a trade with the Reds? Sure, he's expensive and has a history of injuries. However, he's played 79 healthy games in 2005 with a .283 AVG, 16 homers and 55 RBI. He has a .855 OPS and .507 SLG, primarily as the Reds' cleanup hitter. His OPS and AVG steadily have improved each month throughout 2005.

Yes, he's making $10.3 million this year. But that's not a lot more than Paul Konerko, who's a free agent after this season.


I think Konerko for Griffey is practically a wash, numbers-wise. Crede for Chavez, now that's another story :D:

:tomatoaward

Jjav829
07-07-2005, 02:09 PM
This is something I thought of while reading the Gargantuan Schmidt rumour thread in WTS, but is more pertinent to the Dye/Konerko issue.



Truthfully, I'm far more intrigued by the idea Ladewski floats toward the end of his column.



Try this deeppink/what's the score fantasy on for size:

What if the Sox could get Junior in a trade with the Reds? Sure, he's expensive and has a history of injuries. However, he's played 79 healthy games in 2005 with a .283 AVG, 16 homers and 55 RBI. He has a .855 OPS and .507 SLG, primarily as the Reds' cleanup hitter. His OPS and AVG steadily have improved each month throughout 2005.

Yes, he's making $10.3 million this year. But that's not a lot more than Paul Konerko, who's a free agent after this season. Anyway, let's say Jermaine Dye can play first base more often, with Ross Gload as a capable LHB backup. And let's say the Sox could get some kind of deal (probably involving a third and fourth team) in which Konerko and Everett depart to other teams looking to add power while Griffey comes here.

In a way, Griffey would replace both Konerko and Everett, yet the Sox would retain a great deal of flexibility to cover for possible injuries. Griffey could play some right field yet also spell Rowand in center. Part of the objection to Dye playing first is that Everett isn't so good in right. Well, Griffey would be a whole lot better than Everett in right, meaning Dye would be free to be the primary 1B.

Imagine a lineup of: Pods - Iguchi - Frank - Griffey - Dye - Pierzynski - Rowand - Crede - Uribe

Making Everett and Konerko expendable to teams who want veteran bats for the stretch run (Houston? Atlanta? Yankees?) might yield the Sox a number of prospects that they then could turn around and trade for a legitimate starting pitcher.

What's that you say? Money's the problem? Well, when the Sox win the World Series, money won't be an issue at all.

:supernana:

Am I missing something? Are we in first place or last place? This is changing the team with the best record in baseball way too much. This team needs another starter and another reliever. That's it. What you proposed consists of significant changes. If we were the Cubs, I'd be in favor of it. We're not. We don't need to make big changes.

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 02:10 PM
YES! Because he is overrated by the rest of the league and if you package Konerko AND Marte AND 1 of our top prospects (McCarthy, Sweeny, Anderson, etc) You CAN get a top-notch pitcher. Come on guy. Read previous posts.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 02:12 PM
Am I missing something? Are we in first place or last place? This is changing the team with the best record in baseball way too much. This team needs another starter and another reliever. That's it. What you proposed consists of significant changes. If we were the Cubs, I'd be in favor of it. We're not. We don't need to make big changes.

Absolutely agree 100%. (For once this afternoon:D: )

balke
07-07-2005, 02:18 PM
YES! Because he is overrated by the rest of the league and if you package Konerko AND Marte AND 1 of our top prospects (McCarthy, Sweeny, Anderson, etc) You CAN get a top-notch pitcher. Come on guy. Read previous posts.


Wow, if Kenny ever did something like this he'd be the laughing stock of MLB. Get real man.

NealCotts4Life
07-07-2005, 02:24 PM
I'm pretty sure there's no position that "requires" a below-average arm. If that were the case, Konerko would be disqualified from 1B. He came up as a catcher and has a good arm. The reason he plays 1B is because he lacks the other physical traits necessary to play anywhere other than 1B. This sometimes happens to aging OFers as well, causing them to shift to 1B.

Besides, if Dye moves to 1B next season, his probable replacement is Anderson, not Everett. Anderson has an excellent arm and much better range than Dye.

I probably shouldn't have said requires, I meant to say you can have a below average arm and still be a decent enough 1st baseman.

And to answer another question. Carl probably is suited more at OF. Because if you look up his position at whitesox.com im pretty sure he falls under OF. Granted hes not be the best defensive outfielder in the game by any means. But what makes you think that Carl can make picks Paul has? What if Carl had to stretch for a ball? He's probably at a risk to tear something. He's not that fleet of foot either. His range is probably the same as Paul. 1st baseman isn't that easy to play especially after playing at another position for almost your whole career.

Also to quote whoever said it, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"

maurice
07-07-2005, 02:26 PM
YES! Because he is overrated by the rest of the league and if you package Konerko AND Marte AND 1 of our top prospects (McCarthy, Sweeny, Anderson, etc) You CAN get a top-notch pitcher.

IMHO, Marte, McCarthy, and another prospect would get you a very good player. Adding 1/2 year of Konerko (+ the approx. $5 mil. still owed on his salary with the trade kicker) probably makes that trade much less attractive to another team. If other MLB teams overrated Konerko as much as you think they do, he would have been gone months ago.

maurice
07-07-2005, 02:29 PM
I'm pretty sure there's no position that "requires" a below-average arm. If that were the case, Konerko would be disqualified from 1B. He came up as a catcher and has a good arm. The reason he plays 1B is because he lacks the other physical traits necessary to play anywhere other than 1B. This sometimes happens to aging OFers as well, causing them to shift to 1B.

Besides, if Dye moves to 1B next season, his probable replacement is Anderson, not Everett. Anderson has an excellent arm and much better range than Dye.

But what makes you think that Carl can make picks Paul has? What if Carl had to stretch for a ball? He's probably at a risk to tear something. He's not that fleet of foot either. His range is probably the same as Paul.

:?:

I never said anything about Everett at 1B. My post (and the title of this thread) assumes that Dye will play 1B. Dye's very athletic but has lost a step or two due to age.

kittle545feet
07-07-2005, 02:35 PM
:threadblows: :o:

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2005, 02:37 PM
We don't need to make big changes.

You are right. The Sox thankfully don't NEED to make changes. But a good GM - even the one for the team with the best record - should never dismiss out of hand a possible opportunity to improve the team, either, just because he's content with the status quo. Right?

I'm ssang, and I'm still an IDIOT!
07-07-2005, 02:37 PM
Wow, if Kenny ever did something like this he'd be the laughing stock of MLB. Get real man.

Why? Put El Duque in the pen to replace Marte. Fine with me. Lose a prospect. Fine with me as we're aiming for the world series NOW and unload an overrated player who's gone after this year anyways. And we get a TOP starer (Schmidt, Burnett, Clemens (pipe dream). And I say it's a steal. I'm sorry to all the haters on this thread. But I'm right on this one.

NealCotts4Life
07-07-2005, 02:39 PM
Maurice that 2nd part wasn't directed towards you. It was to fquaye149. I was just lazy and didn't look up his name. Sorry for the confusion.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 02:43 PM
Maurice that 2nd part wasn't directed towards you. It was to fquaye149. I was just lazy and didn't look up his name. Sorry for the confusion.

First baseman stretching isn't all that common...Paulie doesn't stretch very much if you notice (his hip doesn't really allow it).

Digging is not an art form. I haven't seen too many first baseman miss the skipped throws.

At any rate...I do believe you are right that Paulie is a better option defensively than anyone on the roster right now.

However, if it comes to it, I'll still take Carl at first over Dye at first, unlike others who think Dye should play first THIS season.

balke
07-07-2005, 02:45 PM
Why? Put El Duque in the pen to replace Marte. Fine with me. Lose a prospect. Fine with me as we're aiming for the world series NOW and unload an overrated player who's gone after this year anyways. And we get a TOP starer (Schmidt, Burnett, Clemens (pipe dream). And I say it's a steal. I'm sorry to all the haters on this thread. But I'm right on this one.


Trade a dominant lefty out of the pen, while you are already weak in that spot, trade a top tier prospect and a 40-HR all-star for another pitcher? All because Dye played one game at 1B and you think Everett is ready to play RF? Seriously, you're WRONG.

It would take a lot less to get a proven pitcher, if you think prospects aren't worth anything, we have plenty we could give away that would get us just about any pitcher, and it wouldn't cost us bullpen arms or All-stars. IT would also keep Carl out of the field.

Also, if I remember correctly El Duque has been in the Pen before and wasn't very dominant.

davenicholson
07-07-2005, 02:45 PM
In the true spirit of this thread, I'd like to make a trade suggestion myself. Since chicago (NL) will be 8 games out of the wild card by the weekend, they should soon be joining the list of teams that are "sellers". Why don't we trade them Konerko for Lee? That solves our hole at first base. OK, maybe we can throw in Marte. Someone get me Hendry's cell phone number.

Mickster
07-07-2005, 02:47 PM
What if the Sox could get Junior in a trade with the Reds? Sure, he's expensive and has a history of injuries..........................Yes, he's making $10.3 million this year. But that's not a lot more than Paul Konerko, who's a free agent after this season........................................What 's that you say? Money's the problem? Well, when the Sox win the World Series, money won't be an issue at all.

I've hi-lighted all in red. Griffey get's deferred payments on his contrct through like 2099. No way we are taking on that much cash. I like Ladewski's columns alot but this idea was just :kukoo: .

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 03:27 PM
Konerko's probably the most overated Sox player, by the fans, I've ever seen. With that said, we can't trade him. Who the hell would take him? We might be able to trade him to a contender for prospects. We don't need prospects.

Next year, he'll be playing in NYC. They like guys that are quotable, and we all know PK is. I like the idea of Dye, Everett or Rogo as our everyday first baseman. Moving Dye would obviously be more beneficial. We can finally bring up Anderson to play CF and move Rowand to RF, where he'll be a much better fielder. This opens up a new can of worms though. Rowand doesn't hit enough to play RF. I would be fine with it, but you'll see a ton of kneejerk "Rowand sucks" threads.

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 03:28 PM
Trade a dominant lefty out of the pen, while you are already weak in that spot, trade a top tier prospect and a 40-HR all-star for another pitcher? All because Dye played one game at 1B and you think Everett is ready to play RF? Seriously, you're WRONG.

It would take a lot less to get a proven pitcher, if you think prospects aren't worth anything, we have plenty we could give away that would get us just about any pitcher, and it wouldn't cost us bullpen arms or All-stars. IT would also keep Carl out of the field.

Also, if I remember correctly El Duque has been in the Pen before and wasn't very dominant.


In all fairness, Konerko might be the worst 1st base AS ever.

NealCotts4Life
07-07-2005, 03:31 PM
I'm sorry to be redundant, but why waste the best arm on the team at 1st? I just don't really get it at all.

RKMeibalane
07-07-2005, 03:39 PM
This thread is even worse than the "Cell/Sell" thread from last summer.

Ron Karkovice
07-07-2005, 03:54 PM
Am I the only one who likes having Konerko on this team... ughhh I guess i'm crazy for thinking he's an "A" player.

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 03:56 PM
Am I the only one who likes having Konerko on this team... ughhh I guess i'm crazy for thinking he's an "A" player.

You're crazy for thinking a 1 tool player is an "A" player.

Ron Karkovice
07-07-2005, 04:00 PM
You're crazy for thinking a 1 tool player is an "A" player.

Well this 1 tool player is for sure better than average.

balke
07-07-2005, 04:01 PM
In all fairness, Konerko might be the worst 1st base AS ever.

The players voted him in, and he's an All-star nonetheless. One more slump, and you'll all be asking us to trade Dye again.

Ron Karkovice
07-07-2005, 04:02 PM
The players voted him in, and he's an All-star nonetheless. One more slump, and you'll all be asking us to trade Dye again.

Exactly. Konerko will be fine second half.

Chisox003
07-07-2005, 04:12 PM
Wow I truly cant believe there is a thread about this...But should I be shocked?

Im embarassed that some of the people on this site call themselves SOX "fans"

For the LOVE OF GOD WE ARE 31 GAMES OVER .500!! Konerko is a HUGE part of that, as was everybody on this team!! Trading him is not going to make this team any better, and isnt that the only thing we are looking to do at this point in the season?

Good, DYe played good at 1st, and Im happy that we have another option there...But the best lineup is still Dye in RF and Konerko at 1st, the one we've seen all year....Reading stuff like this is so frustrating

This is ****ing ridiculous, and threads like this should be immediatly ****housed

DARK CLOUDS MUST GO!

:threadsucks

Ron Karkovice
07-07-2005, 04:17 PM
amen! fellow sox fan brotha!

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 04:17 PM
The players voted him in, and he's an All-star nonetheless. One more slump, and you'll all be asking us to trade Dye again.

I never wanted to trade Dye. I don't want to trade Konerko because we can't get what we want for him.

ChiSoxPatF
07-07-2005, 04:21 PM
This may be one of the most rediculous threads I've ever read :kukoo: . There is NO WAY we're trading Paulie unless we're offered the moon for him. The Sox are dying to get back Gload so they have a SECOND 1B let alone have multiple ones like everyone here is claiming. Dye played there yesterday out of DESPERATION since Paulie has had like 2 days off all season.

I know alot of Sox fans are still harboring resentment over a poor season he had TWO YEARS AGO but its time to let it go. He's going to hit .280-.300 every year and should be between 35-40 HRs. Yes, even this year. Every player has a few bad months and Paulie has had ONE this year which makes his average look so poor. Besides that, he leads our team in HR and RBI and, yes, Runs. I know Dye and Everett have done well but they are even less reliable than Paulie.

The Sox will sign him for cheap (he's willing to take less) this offseason for a longterm deal.

TaylorStSox
07-07-2005, 04:38 PM
Konerko is a good power hitter. That's all he brings you though. He's a liability in the field. He hits poorly with runners in scoring position. Considering how many times he's hit with runners on base this year, he should be close to the league leaders in RBI's. Obviously he doesn't run well. His GIDP ratio is a sign of a poor situational hitter.

With that said, I'm okay with him. He's vastly overpaid but, hey, "chicks dig the long ball." I'm okay with him because he's the best that we have for right now. Signing him to a long term deal would be a huge mistake IMO.

I'd rather have a guy like Rogowski for the league minimum. He's going to hit for average. He's going to move runner's along. He's going to drive balls into the gaps and might hit for power at some point. He's not going to throw his bat and cry everytime he pops out when we're winning.

RedPinStripes
07-07-2005, 04:44 PM
I repeat.........

http://www.dumbppl.com/images/images/areyou.jpg

That pic is HILARIOUS! LMAO!

TimChamp
07-07-2005, 04:46 PM
While I don't think it is such a great idea to trade Konerko this year, I do hope and believe it is his last year with us. Frank should be playing 1st base next year after a whole offseason of making sure that the ankle is completely healed. While Frank can't throw that well at 1st base, if anyone can tell me what other thing Konerko does better than Frank, then I don't see how Konerko can stay on this team with Frank on the team; especially if we retain Everett.



--Champ out

Hangar18
07-07-2005, 05:31 PM
Im one of the more ANTI-DYE people around here, but I will give credit here,
because Jermaine does deserve some credit for his play last nite.
He played some very flawless 1b !. I watched him the whole game,
and he was right where he needed to be every play. I was impressed. He
played there as if he'd been there for years. Cheers Jermaine

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 05:40 PM
WE ARE 31 GAMES OVER .500!! Konerko is a part of that,



I fixed it for you.

Straingage
07-07-2005, 06:17 PM
This has got to be the worst thread ever. Trade Kenerko for what? there is not enough good pitching out there to be traded thats worth the headache later, I mean come on, you trade Paulie who obvouisly wants to stay in Chicago, for some rent-a-star pitcher or player who would probalby sign with the Yankees or Angels the following year. come on give us a break.

PicktoCLick72
07-07-2005, 06:21 PM
Frisbee = :dtroll:

I wish we could have a screening process so these threads woul never come into existance.

buehrle4cy05
07-07-2005, 06:40 PM
:angry::cuss::bs::nuts::threadblows::threadsucks:w hoflungpoo:chunks:bong::dumbpeople:This basically sums up my opinion on this thread. ****house, here we come.

ChiSoxFan7
07-07-2005, 08:27 PM
Of course with my addiction to speed (see signature), i would love to get rid of the slowest thing on the basepath.
BUT
Dye plays outfield

Who would take his spot in RF....Everet, Downgrade in Defense and the other choice...Timo? That just makes me shiver. Yikes!

And was it not only a year ago PK had HOW many RBI's?:cool:

Chisox003
07-07-2005, 08:31 PM
I fixed it for you.

Ok, so i over did it with the capital "huge", but the point remains...

This thread is beyond ridiculous, and I refuse to spend any more time in it trying to figure out why its still in the clubhouse

Next

mccoydp
07-07-2005, 08:35 PM
Trade 'em all! Let's start over from scratch!

slobes
07-07-2005, 08:37 PM
Trade 'em all! Let's start over from scratch!

:rolling:

Whitesox029
07-07-2005, 08:45 PM
I never saw this thread coming!
Geez you Konerko-haters are relentless. This shouldn't even be in the clubhouse anymore.

(And no I didn't read a single post in this thread--it would be a waste of my life.)

BlackHat91
07-07-2005, 08:55 PM
Man these flavor of the week threads get old. Everytime a player has a slump someone is calling for that players head. Every player on the team will not be hot at some point during the year. Come on, its Paulie. This is one of our power hitters and a team leader to boot.

gosox41
07-07-2005, 09:29 PM
Man these flavor of the week threads get old. Everytime a player has a slump someone is calling for that players head. Every player on the team will not be hot at some point during the year. Come on, its Paulie. This is one of our power hitters and a team leader to boot.

To be fair, I've been calling for PK's head when he first signed the contract extension. I wanted to 'sell high' last year with him.



Bob

Realist
07-07-2005, 10:08 PM
Wow I truly cant believe there is a thread about this...But should I be shocked?

Im embarassed that some of the people on this site call themselves SOX "fans"

For the LOVE OF GOD WE ARE 31 GAMES OVER .500!! Konerko is a HUGE part of that, as was everybody on this team!! Trading him is not going to make this team any better, and isnt that the only thing we are looking to do at this point in the season?

Good, DYe played good at 1st, and Im happy that we have another option there...But the best lineup is still Dye in RF and Konerko at 1st, the one we've seen all year....Reading stuff like this is so frustrating

This is ****ing ridiculous, and threads like this should be immediatly ****housed

DARK CLOUDS MUST GO!



Amen. This thread is embarrassing and depressing. It's probably the worst thread I've ever read here if for no other reason than its extremely poor timing.

Yesterday I was so proud of us for getting Pods into the All-Star game and today I feel like dragging our collective ass under a rock. Such is the life of a bi polar Sox fan, I guess.

:(:

CallMeNuts
07-07-2005, 10:45 PM
There are a lot of threads speculating on the addition of a stud pitcher, maybe a #1 / #2 caliber guy from another team that would end up being a #4 guy with us. If you want quality, you have to give quality. You either have to give up too much of the farm, and/or you have to give up a major league starter. IF we could get this kind of stud pitcher, I'd be willing to part with Paulee, even though I think he is an above average contributor to this team. I just think that first basemen are pretty fungible and that Gload / Dye / Everett / Rowand / Pods / Thomas could nicely handle the roles of DH, 1B & OF, with little to no degradation of current productivity. BUT it's probably a pipe dream that the right starter could be had in a deal like this.

Optipessimism
07-07-2005, 11:28 PM
I don't know why this thread is getting crapped on so much. Obviously, Konerko is going nowhere BUT I think it is at least good for some discussion regarding next year and beyond.

I didn't see Dye play yesterday, but if he was as good as everyone says he was, what would be wrong with going with him at 1B next year? The way I see it, you have tons of flexibility if you keep Carl and Frank and then call up Anderson or get another outfielder. If Carl can work on playing 1B over the offseason, you have 2 possible DH's (Frank and Carl), 5 possible outfielders (Dye, Rowand, Pods, Carl, Anderson), and 3 1B (Dye, Everett, Gload).

That is some awesome flexibility that would allow Ozzie to rest a guy or two without opening big holes in the lineup. I've said this for a long time now, and I'll say it again: Kenny isn't going to keep both Frank and Paulie. It's not happening. If one is going to go, I'm keeping Frank.

Now, it makes sense to bring up the idea of trading Paulie if there are no plans of retaining him beyond this year, but that would NEVER happen. Kenny doesn't want anyone to think we are white-flagging it in the middle of one of the franchise's best seasons ever.

Chisox003
07-07-2005, 11:34 PM
I don't know why this thread is getting crapped on so much. Obviously, Konerko is going nowhere BUT I think it is at least good for some discussion regarding next year and beyond.

I didn't see Dye play yesterday, but if he was as good as everyone says he was, what would be wrong with going with him at 1B next year? The way I see it, you have tons of flexibility if you keep Carl and Frank and then call up Anderson or get another outfielder. If Carl can work on playing 1B over the offseason, you have 2 possible DH's (Frank and Carl), 5 possible outfielders (Dye, Rowand, Pods, Carl, Anderson), and 3 1B (Dye, Everett, Gload).

That is some awesome flexibility that would allow Ozzie to rest a guy or two without opening big holes in the lineup. I've said this for a long time now, and I'll say it again: Kenny isn't going to keep both Frank and Paulie. It's not happening. If one is going to go, I'm keeping Frank.

Now, it makes sense to bring up the idea of trading Paulie if there are no plans of retaining him beyond this year, but that would NEVER happen. Kenny doesn't want anyone to think we are white-flagging it in the middle of one of the franchise's best seasons ever.

He wasnt anything special yesterday, he just played solid....Nothing out of the ordinary, nothing Paulie wouldnt have done

Plus, with Dye at first, you're wasting the best arm on the team...The flexibility and option to put him there is great, but cmon, he's a rightfielder

Lets worry about next year next year....For this year, Konerko at 1B, Dye in RF, and platooning Carl in there every 2 days (Exactly what Ozzie's doing), is the best option.

Realist
07-07-2005, 11:45 PM
I don't know why this thread is getting crapped on so much. Obviously, Konerko is going nowhere BUT I think it is at least good for some discussion regarding next year and beyond.

The name of the thread is "Dye at First.. TRADE KONERKO NOW!! That's why it's getting crapped on so much. If the thread were about the possibility that next year we could maybe let Konerko go, move Dye to first and make room for Anderson, it would be a different thread and wouldn't be so friggin' horrible.

fquaye149
07-07-2005, 11:50 PM
He wasnt anything special yesterday, he just played solid....Nothing out of the ordinary, nothing Paulie wouldnt have done

.

Except snag that chopper

(but he didn't turn the 3-6-3 on it, it's true)

FarWestChicago
07-07-2005, 11:56 PM
This is ****ing ridiculous, and threads like this should be immediatly ****housedI am tempted to ****house this thread. The behavior of the aPaulogists is a true embarrassment for this site. :o:

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 12:08 AM
Wow I truly cant believe there is a thread about this...But should I be shocked?

Im embarassed that some of the people on this site call themselves SOX "fans"

For the LOVE OF GOD WE ARE 31 GAMES OVER .500!! Konerko is a HUGE part of that, as was everybody on this team!! Trading him is not going to make this team any better, and isnt that the only thing we are looking to do at this point in the season?

Good, DYe played good at 1st, and Im happy that we have another option there...But the best lineup is still Dye in RF and Konerko at 1st, the one we've seen all year....Reading stuff like this is so frustrating

This is ****ing ridiculous, and threads like this should be immediatly ****housed

DARK CLOUDS MUST GO!

:threadsucks

Wait til you see tomorrows thread, "Widger at third.....TRADE CREDE NOW!!!!." Really, there wouldn't be a difference between that and this thread. Widger has played the same amount of games at 3B as Dye has at 1B. Widger didn't look too bad there. So going by this thread, playing one game is enough to assume that you can handle a position you have never played before over the rest of the year for a team with World Series aspirations. Yeah...it's a shame this thread actually got to 11 pages.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:37 AM
Randar, I usually agree with what you say but this is ridiculous even for you.

I don't know that I would put Dye at 1st base based on one game, but the fact that he has taken grounders there for a couple months now and taken infield practice at 1st base regularly over that period means the Sox are in a far better position to gauge his ability there over many more repetitions than one game, albeit not in-game conditions.

Also, who the hell is saying that Dye at first means Carl is the full-time RF'er by default? If you're trading Slonerko, what predicates that a RF'er isn't part of the return package or a complimentary deal?

Do people think Brian Anderson wouldn't be capable of hitting .250 like "Mr. All-Star Can Do No Wrong?"

Anderson would be a defensive upgrade over ANYONE in our outfield today, end of freakin story.

I would like to see Dye play first 5 or 6 more games over the next 2-3 weeks before deciding if I felt comfortable with the move being made now as opposed to waiting for the offseason to move him over there. That move makes the most sense of any, but it does nothing to make us better today.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:44 AM
Plus, with Dye at first, you're wasting the best arm on the team...

And with Konerko anywhere you are putting the slowest base-runner in baseball into the game...

It's too early to give the thumbs up/down on Dye at 1st, but it's preposterous for the aPaulagists to make it seem like Paul Konerko produces like Frank Thomas in his prime and is some kind of untouchable demi-god. That is the truly embarassing part of this thread. The original post was inflammatory a bit, but the disintigration into name-calling, troll-labeling, and basic excuse-making for a guy who is hitting below .250 behind one of the best 1-2 top-of-the-orders in baseball and is a liability on the bases and with his propensity to GIDP... just ridiculous...

It's like trying to use reason with a bunch of bickering 4-year-olds. No use wasting any more breath.

Old saying goes, "You cannot argue with ignorance"...

SomebodyToldMe
07-08-2005, 12:48 AM
Some n00bz are great, aren't they?

slobes
07-08-2005, 12:59 AM
Yeah...it's a shame this thread actually got to 11 pages.

Here here

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 01:02 AM
And with Konerko anywhere you are putting the slowest base-runner in baseball into the game...

It's too early to give the thumbs up/down on Dye at 1st, but it's preposterous for the aPaulagists to make it seem like Paul Konerko produces like Frank Thomas in his prime and is some kind of untouchable demi-god. That is the truly embarassing part of this thread. The original post was inflammatory a bit, but the disintigration into name-calling, troll-labeling, and basic excuse-making for a guy who is hitting below .250 behind one of the best 1-2 top-of-the-orders in baseball and is a liability on the bases and with his propensity to GIDP... just ridiculous...

It's like trying to use reason with a bunch of bickering 4-year-olds. No use wasting any more breath.

Old saying goes, "You cannot argue with ignorance"...

wait randar...you don't to understand - Paulie has only grounded into 7 double plays this year.

That means you can't ever bring up his GIDP's again. I mean...his past however many years must have been a statistical aberration.



(if someone posts the teal police I'm going to be real pissed off)

balke
07-08-2005, 01:07 AM
And with Konerko anywhere you are putting the slowest base-runner in baseball into the game...

It's too early to give the thumbs up/down on Dye at 1st, but it's preposterous for the aPaulagists to make it seem like Paul Konerko produces like Frank Thomas in his prime and is some kind of untouchable demi-god. That is the truly embarassing part of this thread. The original post was inflammatory a bit, but the disintigration into name-calling, troll-labeling, and basic excuse-making for a guy who is hitting below .250 behind one of the best 1-2 top-of-the-orders in baseball and is a liability on the bases and with his propensity to GIDP... just ridiculous...

It's like trying to use reason with a bunch of bickering 4-year-olds. No use wasting any more breath.

Old saying goes, "You cannot argue with ignorance"...


Noone compared Paulie to Thomas, sometimes the Paulie Haters go too far, by making up crap mid-thread, and defending a HORRIBLE ARGUMENT.

Right now, Paulie is the second best hitter on the team. JD is close, but JD is on fire, and Paulie is slumping. In the end it'll be Paulie. I don't like his GIDP's, and yeah he's slow, but someone needs to hit behind Frank with Power. I don't even know why I'm arguing in this thread, its just absolutely moronic. Maybe in the offseason worry about Dye and Paulie. Dye isn't going to first this season, and if he does I'm turing in my FOKW badge and retiring from Sox fan baseball. What an idiotic move to think of making midway through a season where you have such a great record. Konerko is an All-star, and he's a top 1B-man in the AL. Its even more aPAULLing to include marte and B-mac with PK for 1 more pitcher.... when you already have a great pitching staff.

I'll listen in the offseason. I was all about Gload getting a shot if the right deal came along, but for now you don't mess with this team like that... its not even thinkable.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 01:11 AM
wait randar...you don't to understand - Paulie has only grounded into 7 double plays this year.

That means you can't ever bring up his GIDP's again. I mean...his past however many years must have been a statistical aberration.



(if someone posts the teal police I'm going to be real pissed off)

I love the double standard on statistics. You use Konerko's current average against him as a reason for why he is overrated, having a down year, etc. Yet even though he isn't leading the league in DPs this year, or anywhere close for that matter, he's still one of the leaders in DPs? Yet you don't mention that Konerko is a career .277 hitter. In fact, his batting averages by year since he joined the Sox are:
1999 - .295
2000 - .298
2001 - .282
2002 - .304
2003 - .234
2004 - .277

I guess when the past statistics work in your favor, you use them. When they don't work in your favor, you just ignore them?

ElevenUp
07-08-2005, 01:11 AM
Wait til you see tomorrows thread, "Widger at third.....TRADE CREDE NOW!!!!." Really, there wouldn't be a difference between that and this thread. Widger has played the same amount of games at 3B as Dye has at 1B. Widger didn't look too bad there. So going by this thread, playing one game is enough to assume that you can handle a position you have never played before over the rest of the year for a team with World Series aspirations. Yeah...it's a shame this thread actually got to 11 pages.

Don't forget the "Jenks as a starter, trade Garcia now" thread, either.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 01:19 AM
Noone compared Paulie to Thomas, sometimes the Paulie Haters go too far, by making up crap mid-thread, and defending a HORRIBLE ARGUMENT.

Right now, Paulie is the second best hitter on the team. JD is close, but JD is on fire, and Paulie is slumping. In the end it'll be Paulie. I don't like his GIDP's, and yeah he's slow, but someone needs to hit behind Frank with Power. I don't even know why I'm arguing in this thread, its just absolutely moronic. Maybe in the offseason worry about Dye and Paulie. Dye isn't going to first this season, and if he does I'm turing in my FOKW badge and retiring from Sox fan baseball. What an idiotic move to think of making midway through a season where you have such a great record. Konerko is an All-star, and he's a top 1B-man in the AL. Its even more aPAULLing to include marte and B-mac with PK for 1 more pitcher.... when you already have a great pitching staff.

I'll listen in the offseason. I was all about Gload getting a shot if the right deal came along, but for now you don't mess with this team like that... its not even thinkable.

Leave. Go away. Take your reason and logic and get the hell out of here! :smile:

Seriously though, I think you summed it up best. No one is saying that moving Dye to first base isn't an option for next year if Konerko is gone. In fact, it's a very good idea if Dye can handle 1B full time. It would allow us to possibly keep Frank, bring Anderson to the majors and still have money to spent on upgrades elsewhere. But to consider doing this when the team is playing this well, in the midst of one of the best seasons in franchise history, is completely insane. We're not in a position to rely on a rookie to make major contributions to this team, nor are we in a position to rely on a player who has played a grand total of 1 career game at first base to become an everyday first baseman.

psyclonis
07-08-2005, 01:27 AM
I didn't even bother reading this tread...

To the OP:
Why would any team not in contention want PK? Hes a free agent after this season... Any teams in contention that would need PK, wouldn't give us squat to help us get to the WS. Who would play RF??? Everett? HA!

We don't need a SP
We already got 6 and only need our top 3 and a orlando/count combo for the two 7 game series for the playoffs
If any thing we need an extra bullpen arm if Jenks cant control his fastball

Randar68
07-08-2005, 01:38 AM
Noone compared Paulie to Thomas, sometimes the Paulie Haters go too far, by making up crap mid-thread, and defending a HORRIBLE ARGUMENT.

No, but he's an "All-Star" so now he's untouchable? You basically said so later in your post...

Right now, Paulie is the second best hitter on the team. JD is close, but JD is on fire, and Paulie is slumping.

HUH? The second best? Your #4 hitter has a SLG% under .500 and an average under .250!!!!!!! Paul Konerko, right now, is the 5th best hitter on this team behind Dye, Thomas, Pods, Iguchi, and probably Rowand...

In the end it'll be Paulie.

Based on what? Some illogical expectation? As long as Konerko thinks he needs to hit every ball to the LF corner and refuses to use RF consistently, he's going to continue on the craptastic path to mediocrity.

I don't like his GIDP's, and yeah he's slow, but someone needs to hit behind Frank with Power.

You mean, like, Jermaine Dye?

I don't even know why I'm arguing in this thread, its just absolutely moronic. Maybe in the offseason worry about Dye and Paulie.

Dye isn't going to first this season, and if he does I'm turing in my FOKW badge and retiring from Sox fan baseball.

You just go round and round adn round, don't you? It's moronic to discuss making this team better or ideas to possibly do that? And while that is moronic, you retiring from being a Sox fan if a move is made is perhaps the most childish, ignorant, retarded thing said in this entire thread, and that REALLY says something here...

And BTW, Konerko's contract is up after the year, so hell yeah, the Konerko situation will be dealt with one way or the other. Do you not think the Sox know more about Jermaine Dye's ability than you considering they've been having him take grounders/reps for a while at 1st now?

What an idiotic move to think of making midway through a season where you have such a great record. Konerko is an All-star, and he's a top 1B-man in the AL. Its even more aPAULLing to include marte and B-mac with PK for 1 more pitcher.... when you already have a great pitching staff.

Wait, so we shouldn't be complacent but we should be complacent. Your logic is as consistent as Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

I'll listen in the offseason. I was all about Gload getting a shot if the right deal came along, but for now you don't mess with this team like that... its not even thinkable.

So you'd be OK with a career platoon player getting a shot at first instead of Konerko, but a proven MLB hitter and previous All-Star???? NO WAY! STOP THE PRESSES! BALKE's GOING TO RETIRE FROM SOX FANDOM!!!

Randar68
07-08-2005, 01:43 AM
We're not in a position to rely on a rookie to make major contributions to this team, nor are we in a position to rely on a player who has played a grand total of 1 career game at first base to become an everyday first baseman.

And if Konerko is traded, where is this rule that says a RF'er is not traded for in the same deal or in a second deal?

Nobody has made any proposals about what deal(s) SHOULD in fact be made, just that Dye could move to first, you can move Konerko, and address other needs along the way.

Konerko is in a contract year, has been a marginal contributor based on what he was expected/counted-on to provide. If it's ok to look for ways to improve this team, why is it out-of-bounds to suggest making the team better might include getting rid of Konerko?

We shouldn't be complacent, but when it comes to Konerko, complacency is fine... round and round we go...

TaylorStSox
07-08-2005, 01:53 AM
.230 RISP
105 RBI's (projected)
121 K's (projected)
.473 Slg%
8.75 Million



These numbers speak for themselves. It's not acceptable from a clean up hitter who's constantly hitting with guys on base.

He doesn't give you anything as far as defense, base running or intangibles.

He's here for this year but this isn't the kind of guy you sign long term.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 01:54 AM
And if Konerko is traded, where is this rule that says a RF'er is not traded for in the same deal or in a second deal?

Nobody has made any proposals about what deal(s) SHOULD in fact be made, just that Dye could move to first, you can move Konerko, and address other needs along the way.

Konerko is in a contract year, has been a marginal contributor based on what he was expected/counted-on to provide. If it's ok to look for ways to improve this team, why is it out-of-bounds to suggest making the team better might include getting rid of Konerko?

We shouldn't be complacent, but when it comes to Konerko, complacency is fine... round and round we go...

Because you're suggesting we move a player who has never played 1B on a regular basis to 1B in the middle of the season. Sure, it isn't the toughest position to play. But what happens if he struggles? What if he isn't ready to play 1B full time? It's too late to go back. Not only that, what if his struggles defensively carry over to his hitting. What if he becomes the player we saw in April again? Now not only have we shipped out our full-time 1B, we've made our right fielder into a first baseman and in the process completely ruined him offensively and defensively. These are the moves you make when you are looking for a shakeup. These are the moves you make when you are an underachieving team looking for a boost. These are not the moves you make when you have the best record in baseball.

Now you want to argue that we should trade Konerko for pitching and look to acquire Aubrey Huff or someone like that for 1B, fine. Make that argument. But deciding to make a major shakeup such as trading your 1B who made the All-Star team, moving your starting RF to 1B and possibly bringing in a rookie to play RF (which all constitute a MAJOR shakeup) is quite possibly one of the most insane ideas I've ever read on this board. And that is exactly the reason why this ridiculous thread is in WTS.

TaylorStSox
07-08-2005, 01:56 AM
Because you're suggesting we move a player who has never played 1B on a regular basis to 1B in the middle of the season. Sure, it isn't the toughest position to play. But what happens if he struggles? What if he isn't ready to play 1B full time? It's too late to go back. Not only that, what if his struggles defensively carry over to his hitting. What if he becomes the player we saw in April again? Now not only have we shipped out our full-time 1B, we've made our right fielder into a first baseman and in the process completely ruined him offensively and defensively. These are the moves you make when you are looking for a shakeup. These are the moves you make when you are an underachieving team looking for a boost. These are not the moves you make when you have the best record in baseball.

Now you want to argue that we should trade Konerko for pitching and look to acquire Aubrey Huff or someone like that for 1B, fine. Make that argument. But deciding to make a major shakeup such as trading your 1B who made the All-Star team, moving your starting RF to 1B and possibly bringing in a rookie to play RF (which all constitute a MAJOR shakeup) is quite possibly one of the most insane ideas I've ever read on this board. And that is exactly the reason why this ridiculous thread is in WTS.


I agree with this. That's why I'm speaking about PK in a long term sense.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 02:03 AM
I agree with this. That's why I'm speaking about PK in a long term sense.

That's fine. But this thread wasn't about Konerko long-term. It was about some irrational idea to move our RF to first base based on how he played in one single freaking game.

Long term, I can take or leave Konerko. Either way, I don't really care. He's not good enough that I'm going to say we have to keep him but there are also certainly worse options. If the price is right and if it makes sense with the building of next years team, I'd welcome him back. Otherwise, I'd be fine with going to get another first baseman or giving Dye a full offseason, plus Spring Training, to make the transition.

But for now we're worrying about this years team. Next year is next year. Let loser Cubs fans obsess over what they need to do in order to win next year. Our only focus should be on what this team needs to do to win the World Series this year. We can worry about next year in the offseason and I'm quite certain that KW's only concern right now is what is best for this team for this year.

balke
07-08-2005, 02:34 AM
NO WAY! STOP THE PRESSES! BALKE's GOING TO RETIRE FROM SOX FANDOM!!!

NOOOO. I said I'd retire my fandom if KW did a move like this... which he won't because he's not an absolute MORON. Unless you are KW and are planning on doing this? No... wait... Kenny doesn't think of making trades that are so absurd.

You must live in the now if you think Pods, Iguchi, and Everett are better hitters than Paulie since career #'s won't back you up. It comes down to whether you like RBI's and HR's behind Frank, or a slapper hitting .280 in Iguchi. Or a Slapper hitting .290 in Pods behind Frank. Or a 12 HR DH who's walked 16 times total this season in Everett, then there's Dye who about a month and a half ago was the coldest player in baseball who is due to come off his hot streak at any moment. Dye is the only one hitting wise to come close to Paulie, but there is noone that is going to replace Dye's #'s in the field.

Your proposed trade would Move Dye behind Frank, but would also move Pierzynski's strikeouts lower in the order along with Crede, and would put Everett in the field. OH WAIT, you're bringing up Anderson to save the day, even though he's hit only 12 HR's with his 87 K's in THE MINORS. I would rather give Gload a shot after being rookie of the month last season, and playing one hell of a first base defensively, since we are planning on playing "Small ball" heck give it a shot. By your logic he's already a better hitter than Konerko since he's hitting .429 in the minors right now.

ANYWAYS. All PK is doing is leading the team in HR, he's 1st in OBP for players with 100 AB's, and while slumping he's 2 one thousands off from Everett's Slugging %. He's also the RBI leader, Walk leader, and Runs leader on the team. Dye's been great, but so has Paulie. Why would you want to lose one of your best 3 bats on the team? Its insane. Not only that, you want to package a great pitching prospect, and a lefty from the pen that this team is counting on coming back for a Pitcher, when we have one of the best starting rotations in baseball. STUPID. Only way to describe it.

JB98
07-08-2005, 02:48 AM
That's fine. But this thread wasn't about Konerko long-term. It was about some irrational idea to move our RF to first base based on how he played in one single freaking game.

Long term, I can take or leave Konerko. Either way, I don't really care. He's not good enough that I'm going to say we have to keep him but there are also certainly worse options. If the price is right and if it makes sense with the building of next years team, I'd welcome him back. Otherwise, I'd be fine with going to get another first baseman or giving Dye a full offseason, plus Spring Training, to make the transition.

But for now we're worrying about this years team. Next year is next year. Let loser Cubs fans obsess over what they need to do in order to win next year. Our only focus should be on what this team needs to do to win the World Series this year. We can worry about next year in the offseason and I'm quite certain that KW's only concern right now is what is best for this team for this year.

Jjav, I just want to let you know you're doing a great job in this thread. I find myself agreeing with everything you've posted.

Personally, I'm very, very tired of these Konerko "discussions," and I'm very, very tired of people who want to make major changes to a team that is 31 games over .500 and possesses an 11-game lead in its division. What are we since Frank came back? 24-9? It's pretty clear to me that we are an outstanding team with JD in right, PK at first, Frank at DH and Crazy Carl playing three or four times a week as a super sub.

We are having the season of a lifetime, yet several posters want to go Jerry Manuel on us and tinker around. It's ridiculous.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 10:37 AM
Because you're suggesting we move a player who has never played 1B on a regular basis to 1B in the middle of the season. Sure, it isn't the toughest position to play. But what happens if he struggles? What if he isn't ready to play 1B full time? It's too late to go back. Not only that, what if his struggles defensively carry over to his hitting. What if he becomes the player we saw in April again? Now not only have we shipped out our full-time 1B, we've made our right fielder into a first baseman and in the process completely ruined him offensively and defensively. These are the moves you make when you are looking for a shakeup. These are the moves you make when you are an underachieving team looking for a boost. These are not the moves you make when you have the best record in baseball.

Now you want to argue that we should trade Konerko for pitching and look to acquire Aubrey Huff or someone like that for 1B, fine. Make that argument. But deciding to make a major shakeup such as trading your 1B who made the All-Star team, moving your starting RF to 1B and possibly bringing in a rookie to play RF (which all constitute a MAJOR shakeup) is quite possibly one of the most insane ideas I've ever read on this board. And that is exactly the reason why this ridiculous thread is in WTS.
And when Konerko hits .210 in the post-season in the #4 hole we'll all be scratching our heads that we didn't do something earlier.

I'm not arguing about anything other than this:

1) the FANS have seen Jermaine Dye at 1st base for 1 game
2) The Sox have seen him take infield practice regularly there for a while now
3) Don't 1+2 mean that the Sox have a much better idea of what he is or isn't capable of than the fan who only has 1 to go off of?
4) Based on that, along with a million other factors like, PK's contract is up, he's hitting under .250, he's as slow as a sloth, etc, why is it patently absurd to suggest you move PK and that Dye might be able to do the job at 1st base? He's 6'5" in very athletic. Did the Cardinals freak out about moving Pujols all over the place?

This is exactly why I said "if the Sox feel comfortable". I would have to see him over there 5-10 more times before I personally could make a judgement on if he could handle it now or not, but I also don't have the benefit of having seen him take regular IF practice.

I started responding in this thread because of the insanely illogical defense of Paul Konerko at all costs. Who give a rat's ass if he's an All-Star or not? Do people really still see the President of the Royce Clayton fan club as a clubhouse leader? Is his bat irreplaceable in the order?

So, moving Dye to 1st base (same bat in the order, again, only if he proves to be able to handle it), adding a bat in RF, and a starting pitcher, constitute a "major shake-up"? Basically, we'e talking about dealing a single player on the major league club, not 4.

Sorry, but color me unconvinced that Paul Konerko has made such a difference this year in any aspect of the game of baseball that he can not be traded if it allows Kenny Williams to make this team better. That is the goal, is it not?

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 11:44 AM
NOOOO. I said I'd retire my fandom if KW did a move like this... which he won't because he's not an absolute MORON. Unless you are KW and are planning on doing this? No... wait... Kenny doesn't think of making trades that are so absurd.



Reading is a skill. Randar was saying that he was surprised that you would retire your fandom if a proven all star hitter who happens to be an athlete were to play first, but if a career minor leaguer like Gload had been put at first you would be just fine with it.

That's what the quote meant.

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 11:48 AM
Jjav, I just want to let you know you're doing a great job in this thread. I find myself agreeing with everything you've posted.

Personally, I'm very, very tired of these Konerko "discussions," and I'm very, very tired of people who want to make major changes to a team that is 31 games over .500 and possesses an 11-game lead in its division. What are we since Frank came back? 24-9?

Oh so you're against major changes to a team that is in first place by a wide margin (like the Sox were before Frank came back), and to back up your case you cite our record since Frank came back, one of the most radical changes made to any team in baseball this year.

Oh, but we were sure wringing our hands worrying about the chemistry of gaining Frank.

As bad as the initial post was, even it didn't say Give Paulie Away. It said TRADE him. Assumingly for someone of value. But the Friends of Paulie want to pretend like the success this season couldn't have been achieved without him. I think there are plenty of first basemen who could have done a similar job, not to mention the myriad outfielders, catchers, third baseman who could learn first base in about a week.

White Sox Josh
07-08-2005, 11:48 AM
:walnuts
"If I am traded please trade me to Arizona so I can play with the greatest defensive shortstop ever."

:hitless
"See I am the best defensive shortstop ever."

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 12:02 PM
And when Konerko hits .210 in the post-season in the #4 hole we'll all be scratching our heads that we didn't do something earlier.

I'm not arguing about anything other than this:

1) the FANS have seen Jermaine Dye at 1st base for 1 game
2) The Sox have seen him take infield practice regularly there for a while now
3) Don't 1+2 mean that the Sox have a much better idea of what he is or isn't capable of than the fan who only has 1 to go off of?
4) Based on that, along with a million other factors like, PK's contract is up, he's hitting under .250, he's as slow as a sloth, etc, why is it patently absurd to suggest you move PK and that Dye might be able to do the job at 1st base? He's 6'5" in very athletic. Did the Cardinals freak out about moving Pujols all over the place?

This is exactly why I said "if the Sox feel comfortable". I would have to see him over there 5-10 more times before I personally could make a judgement on if he could handle it now or not, but I also don't have the benefit of having seen him take regular IF practice.

I started responding in this thread because of the insanely illogical defense of Paul Konerko at all costs. Who give a rat's ass if he's an All-Star or not? Do people really still see the President of the Royce Clayton fan club as a clubhouse leader? Is his bat irreplaceable in the order?

So, moving Dye to 1st base (same bat in the order, again, only if he proves to be able to handle it), adding a bat in RF, and a starting pitcher, constitute a "major shake-up"? Basically, we'e talking about dealing a single player on the major league club, not 4.

Sorry, but color me unconvinced that Paul Konerko has made such a difference this year in any aspect of the game of baseball that he can not be traded if it allows Kenny Williams to make this team better. That is the goal, is it not?

You still don't understand my point. Back off from your hate of Konerko for a second and realize that my argument has nothing to do with getting rid of Konerko. I know you love to rip Konerko whenever possible. You've proved that over and over and over and over and over again. My whole argument is how this effects Jermaine Dye. As I said before, and even assuming that the Sox know more about his defense at 1B than we do, what if the Sox are wrong? What if Dye struggles at 1B? What if he can't handle it full-time? Our team is built around having a solid defense, yet you want to move our RF to 1B, even though he's played just one career game at 1B. And what if this effects Dye's offense? What if he has a few bad plays or games and suddenly starts doubting himself? What if he takes those defensive lapses with him to the plate and we see the same Jermaine Dye we saw in April? Is this risk really worth it? Do you really think a team with the best record in baseball should be taking these types of risks? I know I sure as hell don't.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:12 PM
You still don't understand my point. Back off from your hate of Konerko for a second and realize that my argument has nothing to do with getting rid of Konerko. I know you love to rip Konerko whenever possible. You've proved that over and over and over and over and over again.

What does this have anything to do with my perceived hatred of Konerko? I have not commented on any of his media babbling. I have stuck only to his performance, which aside from a couple of half-seasons, has been minor-league-worthy.


My whole argument is how this effects Jermaine Dye. As I said before, and even assuming that the Sox know more about his defense at 1B than we do, what if the Sox are wrong? What if Dye struggles at 1B? What if he can't handle it full-time? Our team is built around having a solid defense, yet you want to move our RF to 1B, even though he's played just one career game at 1B. And what if this effects Dye's offense? What if he has a few bad plays or games and suddenly starts doubting himself? What if he takes those defensive lapses with him to the plate and we see the same Jermaine Dye we saw in April? Is this risk really worth it?

You're really basing your whole argument on the "What If?" game? Wow. I have to deal with extremely risk-averse people in my career, and that is the kind of attitude that results in failure.

The only "If" in my point is that "If the Sox feel Dye can handle it"... Under that scenario, why the hell should they not try to improve the team?

They have a chance to win the World Series, yet you're happy to be complacent and see how it all unfolds instead of being aggressive and going for the gold?

You and balke keep saying Kenny would never be "moronic" or "stupid" enough to do something like this, yet this is the same, extremely aggressive GM who ignored all of these same people complaining about the off-season moves and did what he thought was best for the team.

If that includes putting Dye at 1st and trading Konerko, which I see as a realistic option, then so be it.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:16 PM
You still don't understand my point.

BTW, I completely understand your point. I just find it to be maddeningly parochial...

Mickster
07-08-2005, 12:21 PM
You're really basing your whole argument on the "What If?" game? Wow. I have to deal with extremely risk-averse people in my career, and that is the kind of attitude that results in failure.

The only "If" in my point is that "If the Sox feel Dye can handle it"... Under that scenario, why the hell should they not try to improve the team?

They have a chance to win the World Series, yet you're happy to be complacent and see how it all unfolds instead of being aggressive and going for the gold?

You and balke keep saying Kenny would never be "moronic" or "stupid" enough to do something like this, yet this is the same, extremely aggressive GM who ignored all of these same people complaining about the off-season moves and did what he thought was best for the team.

If that includes putting Dye at 1st and trading Konerko, which I see as a realistic option, then so be it.

I by no means am an APaulogist. I don't want him sniffing 1B next season.

Who do you think you could possible get for PK? The only team that might want him is a team that is heading to the playoffs and is in need of a power bat at 1B (or DH). And what do these playoff contenders have to offer? Minor leaguers which we don't need. Teams that we are likely to trade with are typically out of contention and are giving us star-caliber players for ML's with a high ceiling or MLB ready players. PK is neither of those. For the same reason that the anti-PK sox fans dislike him, those are the reasons that many teams will not be interested in an $8M 3 month rental.

I am against the idea this season simply because I can not picture a single scenario where we make a trade and get anyone that can help us win this year.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 12:21 PM
What does this have anything to do with my perceived hatred of Konerko? I have not commented on any of his media babbling. I have stuck only to his performance, which aside from a couple of half-seasons, has been minor-league-worthy.

Because you keep bringing this argument back to Konerko when my argument has nothing to do with Konerko. You keep trying to make this into a debate about whether to trade Konerko rather than an argument of if Dye should play 1B.

You're really basing your whole argument on the "What If?" game? Wow. I have to deal with extremely risk-averse people in my career, and that is the kind of attitude that results in failure.

Failure? LOL. We're 31 games over .500!!! This team has been far from a failure. Yet you seem to think we're under .500 and that we need to drastically shake things up to win. Right now the chances of this team getting much worse from making the wrong moves are a lot higher than the chances of actually getting better from making the right moves.

The only "If" in my point is that "If the Sox feel Dye can handle it"... Under that scenario, why the hell should they not try to improve the team?

They have a chance to win the World Series, yet you're happy to be complacent and see how it all unfolds instead of being aggressive and going for the gold?

When have I ever said I am happy being complacement? I've said numerous times that this team needs another starter and another reliever. I've said I would be in favor of considering any upgrade at any position. I was one of the biggest advocates of the trade for Eric Chavez. I said yesterday that I would consider getting Vizquel to upgrade short. I said in the Vizquel thread that I would consider any trade for a 1B that is better than Konerko. Yet somehow I'm happy being complacent because I don't want to take this huge risk of moving our RF to 1B? *****.

You and balke keep saying Kenny would never be "moronic" or "stupid" enough to do something like this, yet this is the same, extremely aggressive GM who ignored all of these same people complaining about the off-season moves and did what he thought was best for the team.

If that includes putting Dye at 1st and trading Konerko, which I see as a realistic option, then so be it.

And if Kenny does decide this would be best for the team, I would hope that he is right again. But I'm fairly certain that Kenny wouldn't even consider this. In fact, if Kenny is reading this thread, he's probably having a good laugh over the main idea of this thread.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 12:21 PM
WHY SHOULD WE PUT DYE ON FIRST THIS SEASON? Maybe next season if Konerko doesent sign, but this year Dye should stay in right.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:34 PM
I am against the idea this season simply because I can not picture a single scenario where we make a trade and get anyone that can help us win this year.

KW has worked 3-way deals more than once and with talks about Burnett, Schmidt, and others, why not? Heck, Gload may, in-fact, end up being a better option, and he's free.

PK has 2 things that are attractive to different kinds of teams. He may be able to help a contender needing help at 1B, and he is also an expiring contract, which makes him attractive to teams looking to deal long-term dollars and players...

I'm just saying, it should be considered an option. It may not end up being the best option or come to fruition, but it should not be discounted because he made an All-Star team or that it creates a need somewhere else (which is impossible to say until we see how things fell after any deals) or that Dye's only played one game there as of July 8th...

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 12:35 PM
KW has worked 3-way deals more than once and with talks about Burnett, Schmidt, and others, why not? Heck, Gload may, in-fact, end up being a better option, and he's free.

PK has 2 things that are attractive to different kinds of teams. He may be able to help a contender needing help at 1B, and he is also an expiring contract, which makes him attractive to teams looking to deal long-term dollars and players...

I'm just saying, it should be considered an option. It may not end up being the best option or come to fruition, but it should not be discounted because he made an All-Star team or that it creates a need somewhere else (which is impossible to say until we see how things fell after any deals) or that Dye's only played one game there as of July 8th...

To be fair, the only real three way deal of note he pulled was the Colon deal...and most people felt as if Cashman was kind of holding his hand on that one.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:42 PM
Failure? LOL. We're 31 games over .500!!! This team has been far from a failure. Yet you seem to think we're under .500 and that we need to drastically shake things up to win. Right now the chances of this team getting much worse from making the wrong moves are a lot higher than the chances of actually getting better from making the right moves.

This is no longer about how many regular season games this team wins. This team is going to the playoffs unless the pitching staff totally disintegrates. This is now about building the best possible post-season team you can. Yet, you keep saying that making a change like trading Konerko and moving Dye to first is more likely to result in making us a worse team without any knowldege about other moves or how the corresponding RF-hole would be filled or if added pitching were acquired, etc.

We're going to the playoffs, now what can Kenny do to make this team even better for those games in October? He only has until the end of July to make a splash in that area, he cannot wait until mid-September.



And if Kenny does decide this would be best for the team, I would hope that he is right again. But I'm fairly certain that Kenny wouldn't even consider this. In fact, if Kenny is reading this thread, he's probably having a good laugh over the main idea of this thread.

So, not only can you see the future and make judgements about what trading Konerko and moving Dye to first would do to the order and in terms of how the rest of the roster may change, but you can also read Kenny Williams' mind?

Keep in mind, this is the same Kenny Williams who did not bring-up or acquire a 1st baseman when Gload got hurt, rather, started having Jermaine Dye take grounders and now Dye has started a game at 1st base. Luckily, with your mystical powers, we now know that Kenny is laughing at the suggestion that Dye could play 1st base despite his having had a hand in it...

Can you tell me this week's lottery numbers while you're at it?

:cleo

Randar68
07-08-2005, 12:47 PM
When have I ever said I am happy being complacement? I've said numerous times that this team needs another starter and another reliever. I've said I would be in favor of considering any upgrade at any position. I was one of the biggest advocates of the trade for Eric Chavez. I said yesterday that I would consider getting Vizquel to upgrade short. I said in the Vizquel thread that I would consider any trade for a 1B that is better than Konerko. Yet somehow I'm happy being complacent because I don't want to take this huge risk of moving our RF to 1B? *****.


And yet, despite those other suggestions, you think, even "IF" the Sox feel comfortable with Jermaine Dye at 1st base, that it would still be a "huge risk" as compared to the other moves listed here?:rolleyes:

Every moves has risks involved, and while there may not be realistic options in the market at 1st base to replace Konerko at 1st, there may be many more attractive options in the OF. It's all a part of the balance. There is simply no reason, whatsoever, to limit your playing hand on July 8th.

maurice
07-08-2005, 12:58 PM
Statements indicating that certain fans would stop rooting for the Sox if they trade Konerko really sheds a lot of light on the length of these threads. Apparently, we have a handful of posters who are Konerko fans and not Sox fans. This explains why they think Konerko can do no wrong and must defend him to the death . . . not only against stupid nit-picky claims, but also against reasoned fact-based arguments indicating that he's not as valuable as many believe.

santo=dorf
07-08-2005, 01:03 PM
Can you tell me this week's lottery numbers while you're at it?

:cleo

I find this funny because you previously posted:

And when Konerko hits .210 in the post-season in the #4 hole we'll all be scratching our heads that we didn't do something earlier.

Randar, normally I'm with you, and lately I have been imagining a scenario of bringing back Everett ($5.5 million option for 2006) to play 1st and letting Konerko walk (very slowly) from the Sox in the offseason. I like the idea of Dye at first with Everett in the OF, but I wouldn't mess with something that isn't broken yet. Maybe next year, but please not this year.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 01:11 PM
This is no longer about how many regular season games this team wins. This team is going to the playoffs unless the pitching staff totally disintegrates. This is now about building the best possible post-season team you can. Yet, you keep saying that making a change like trading Konerko and moving Dye to first is more likely to result in making us a worse team without any knowldege about other moves or how the corresponding RF-hole would be filled or if added pitching were acquired, etc.

We're going to the playoffs, now what can Kenny do to make this team even better for those games in October? He only has until the end of July to make a splash in that area, he cannot wait until mid-September.

And you keep saying that trading Konerko and moving Dye to 1B would make us a better team, despite any knowledge of how Dye would play at 1B or who we would acquire to fill the RF or pitching roles. Now we've summarized each others arguments.

So, not only can you see the future and make judgements about what trading Konerko and moving Dye to first would do to the order and in terms of how the rest of the roster may change, but you can also read Kenny Williams' mind?

Keep in mind, this is the same Kenny Williams who did not bring-up or acquire a 1st baseman when Gload got hurt, rather, started having Jermaine Dye take grounders and now Dye has started a game at 1st base. Luckily, with your mystical powers, we now know that Kenny is laughing at the suggestion that Dye could play 1st base despite his having had a hand in it...

Can you tell me this week's lottery numbers while you're at it?

:cleo

And you can see the future and know that Dye will be just fine at 1B and that Konerko will continue to hit in the .240s rather than coming back to his career average of .276.

:cleo

Wow, isn't this fun.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 01:17 PM
And yet, despite those other suggestions, you think, even "IF" the Sox feel comfortable with Jermaine Dye at 1st base, that it would still be a "huge risk" as compared to the other moves listed here?:rolleyes:

Every moves has risks involved, and while there may not be realistic options in the market at 1st base to replace Konerko at 1st, there may be many more attractive options in the OF. It's all a part of the balance. There is simply no reason, whatsoever, to limit your playing hand on July 8th.

Yeah, you're right. You know what. Screw experience. Experience is overrated anyway. Let's have some fun. I say we put Politte at 3B. Did you see the way he swung the bat in Colorado? And I'm sure he probably had some quality hacks in BP that the Sox saw. Give him a few days of taking ground balls at 3rd and he'll be fine. I also think we should give Neal Cotts a look at shortstop. He can really handle the bat. And Uribe's cannon arm won't go to waste because he's our new 5th starter. :rolleyes:

And yes, playing a right fielder who has played a career total of one game at first base to that new position has much greater risk than acquiring players who have actually played the position before.

daveeym
07-08-2005, 01:20 PM
I find this funny because you previously posted:



Randar, normally I'm with you, and lately I have been imagining a scenario of bringing back Everett ($5.5 million option for 2006) to play 1st and letting Konerko walk (very slowly) from the Sox in the offseason. I like the idea of Dye at first with Everett in the OF, but I wouldn't mess with something that isn't broken yet. Maybe next year, but please not this year. Seriously, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Adorn it, add in a Bose subwoofer and tweeters if at all possible but don't start playing 2 guys out of position for the sake of moving Konerko. This is looney tunes. Instead of getting that upgrade at third or on the hill, let's take a team that as is will have the best record in baseball and 100+ wins at the end of the season and has amazing team chemistry and change 1/3 of the starting lineup by adding new players and playing people out of position and in the process WEAKEN THE F'N BENCH and DEFENSE that has been phenomal for us this year. Brilliant!!

We're not the scrubs that teams give players away to and even Kenny won't be able to fill the 3 semi holes we have now plus another 2 holes that trading konerko would open up, aka rf/1b and bench, by the deadline.

daveeym
07-08-2005, 01:22 PM
Yeah, you're right. You know what. Screw experience. Experience is overrated anyway. Let's have some fun. I say we put Politte at 3B. Did you see the way he swung the bat in Colorado? And I'm sure he probably had some quality hacks in BP that the Sox saw. Give him a few days of taking ground balls at 3rd and he'll be fine. I also think we should give Neal Cotts a look at shortstop. He can really handle the bat. And Uribe's cannon arm won't go to waste because he's our new 5th starter. :rolleyes:

And yes, playing a right fielder who has played a career total of one game at first base to that new position has much greater risk than acquiring players who have actually played the position before. Hey Jordan's looking to unretire again, hell he's a 5 tool player, offensive punch and defensive prowess, and he'll be GREAT FOR ATTENDANCE. I mean he's a phenom athelete, he could pick up 1st base in a snap, and at 6'6" Wow what a wingspan over there at first.

balke
07-08-2005, 01:23 PM
Statements indicating that certain fans would stop rooting for the Sox if they trade Konerko really sheds a lot of light on the length of these threads. Apparently, we have a handful of posters who are Konerko fans and not Sox fans. This explains why they think Konerko can do no wrong and must defend him to the death . . . not only against stupid nit-picky claims, but also against reasoned fact-based arguments indicating that he's not as valuable as many believe.


Well if you're talking about me, you're dead wrong, I'm anything but a Konerko fan. As stated several times earlier, I was calling for his head in the offseason, so we Could keep Lee. I am a Sox fan, and realize how stupid an idea it is to trade one of your best power hitters on a team that has such great pitching already, just because Dye looked good one day at 1B and some people think Brian Anderson is an answer in RF in that situation, or Everett when they aren't. Of course I'm forgetting trading Konerko Marte and Mccarthy gets us Delgado and Burnett in return :rolleyes:

balke
07-08-2005, 01:30 PM
Reading is a skill. Randar was saying that he was surprised that you would retire your fandom if a proven all star hitter who happens to be an athlete were to play first, but if a career minor leaguer like Gload had been put at first you would be just fine with it.

That's what the quote meant.


Thanks interpreter. Speaking of taking things out of context, I mentioned I was okay with Gload at 1b in the offseason if it meant dealing Konerko and keeping CLee. I DID NOT SAY GLOAD NOW. I SAID KEEP ONE OF THE BEST 1B IN THE AL AT 1B WHERE HE BELONGS SINCE WE ARE WINNING A LOT OF GAMES THERE, AND WILL NEED HIS BAT AND 1B EXPERIENCE IN THE POSTSEASON. So read that professor.

After the season do whatever you want with Paulie, you don't mess with the team like this now though.

JB98
07-08-2005, 01:30 PM
Oh so you're against major changes to a team that is in first place by a wide margin (like the Sox were before Frank came back), and to back up your case you cite our record since Frank came back, one of the most radical changes made to any team in baseball this year.

Oh, but we were sure wringing our hands worrying about the chemistry of gaining Frank.

As bad as the initial post was, even it didn't say Give Paulie Away. It said TRADE him. Assumingly for someone of value. But the Friends of Paulie want to pretend like the success this season couldn't have been achieved without him. I think there are plenty of first basemen who could have done a similar job, not to mention the myriad outfielders, catchers, third baseman who could learn first base in about a week.

We were wringing our hands about the chemistry of gaining Frank? Maybe you were, but I wasn't. The only thing I worry about with Frank is keeping him healthy. This notion that Frank is a clubhouse cancer is a bunch of crap. It was invented by media members who resent Frank for personal reasons. I had confidence that Ozzie would find enough at-bats for Frank and Carl, and he has.

Since when have I ever cared about team chemistry? I've always argued that it's a cliche that athletes use to explain a winning streak, and in the past, it's been pretty obvious you disagree with me on that point.

Personally, I look at our everyday lineup and feel that it's good enough to win a championship. We have a quality player at every position, IMO. We are 57-26, even though Konerko, Rowand, AJ and Uribe have not produced up to their capabilities offensively. Hopefully, we'll get a big second half from a couple of those guys.

Look, if we could trade Konerko for Helton, I'd do it. But it ain't going to happen. I wouldn't trade anyone in our everyday lineup unless I could be certain I was getting a significant upgrade. I'm not sure that's out there. I'm not one of these people who wants Joe Randa or Omar Vizquel.

I certainly don't see any reason for KW to make any desperation moves. To me, taking our best outfield arm (Dye) and putting him a first base not only weakens our defense, but it also qualifies as a desperation move. Having Everett play outfield every day weakens our defense. Someone in here suggested putting Everett at first base. Has Carl even played first base at any point in his career? At least JD played there some in the minors. Why would you ask a player to learn a new position midseason? Answer: Desperation. And desperation is uncalled for when you have 57 wins at midseason and an 11-game lead in the division.

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 01:31 PM
Hey Jordan's looking to unretire again, hell he's a 5 tool player, offensive punch and defensive prowess, and he'll be GREAT FOR ATTENDANCE. I mean he's a phenom athelete, he could pick up 1st base in a snap, and at 6'6" Wow what a wingspan over there at first.

red herrings aren't just great in conversation, they're also lo-cal and high in protein

daveeym
07-08-2005, 01:45 PM
red herrings aren't just great in conversation, they're also lo-cal and high in proteinIt's about as rational as the arguments you've been making the last few days, someone's obviously pissed in your cheerios making you an unhappy camper.

JB98
07-08-2005, 01:50 PM
It's about as rational as the arguments you've been making the last few days, someone's obviously pissed in your cheerios making you an unhappy camper.

That someone is Konerko. If KW releases PK and brings Russ Morman or Psycho Lyons out of retirement to play 1B, fquaye149 will rejoice.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 01:56 PM
That someone is Konerko. If KW releases PK and brings Russ Morman or Psycho Lyons out of retirement to play 1B, fquaye149 will rejoice.

Lol Lmao :rolling:

maurice
07-08-2005, 01:58 PM
Bonus points for the Russ Mormon reference.

JB98
07-08-2005, 02:15 PM
Bonus points for the Russ Mormon reference.

Is it "Morman" or Mormon"? I was racking my brain trying to remember how to spell it. I was just a little guy when that idiot was on the team....

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 02:18 PM
It's about as rational as the arguments you've been making the last few days, someone's obviously pissed in your cheerios making you an unhappy camper.

so now because my arguments are irrational, it's rational to compare Michael Jordan as a baseball player to Jermaine Dye as a baseball player?

I can't imagine anything I have said was that irrational...though I admit we seldom think so ungodly negatively about ourselves.

Jordan and Jermaine Dye. LOL...

The only piss in my cheerios is from the piss poor pro paulie arguments I keep seeing from the ****ing FOGIDPK.

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 02:18 PM
That someone is Konerko. If KW releases PK and brings Russ Morman or Psycho Lyons out of retirement to play 1B, fquaye149 will rejoice.

I bet they go to their right better than Paulie. And if Thomas can beat them at a footrace, who knows.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 02:23 PM
I bet they go to their right better than Paulie. And if Thomas can beat them at a footrace, who knows.

U had to admit that was f'n Hilarious

Randar68
07-08-2005, 02:25 PM
And you keep saying that trading Konerko and moving Dye to 1B would make us a better team, despite any knowledge of how Dye would play at 1B or who we would acquire to fill the RF or pitching roles. Now we've summarized each others arguments.

No, I am not arguing that. Yet, you're the one who said I didn't understand your argument? Ummmm, ok.

What I have said all along is based solely on the contingency that the Sox are comfortable with Dye at first base. I have also repeatedly said that I would personally have to see him play 5-10 more games there to be able to judge for myself...

However, keep going ahead and making ridiculous leaps in this argument and reading way too much into what I've said...

Konerko is an average first baseman defensively. IF Dye can be equivalent, and you can improve the club elsewhere, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU DON'T DO THAT! If you can't explain that in a reasonable manner, just make sure your FOGIDP dues are paid up and that you're always in attendence for your little group meetings about the best way to glorify the Greek God of Perfection...

There is no logical reason other than your fear of change WRT Paul Konerko. None. Zero. Zilch.

This irrational fear of not having Konerko on this team is beyond foolish. "Best power hitter", "One of the Best 1st basemen in baseball"... these kinds of statements basically discredit anything else some of you are typing.

And of course, we love to fall back to bickering one-line childish responses here...

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 03:04 PM
No, I am not arguing that. Yet, you're the one who said I didn't understand your argument? Ummmm, ok.

What I have said all along is based solely on the contingency that the Sox are comfortable with Dye at first base. I have also repeatedly said that I would personally have to see him play 5-10 more games there to be able to judge for myself...

However, keep going ahead and making ridiculous leaps in this argument and reading way too much into what I've said...

Konerko is an average first baseman defensively. IF Dye can be equivalent, and you can improve the club elsewhere, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU DON'T DO THAT! If you can't explain that in a reasonable manner, just make sure your FOGIDP dues are paid up and that you're always in attendence for your little group meetings about the best way to glorify the Greek God of Perfection...

There is no logical reason other than your fear of change WRT Paul Konerko. None. Zero. Zilch.

This irrational fear of not having Konerko on this team is beyond foolish. "Best power hitter", "One of the Best 1st basemen in baseball"... these kinds of statements basically discredit anything else some of you are typing.

And of course, we love to fall back to bickering one-line childish responses here...

Funny how you end the post talking about one-line childish responses after making several of them yourself. Then again, you are the master.

But hey, thanks for the typical condescending, holier-than-thou Randar post. I know I've missed reading these.

I also love the way that because I don't believe in making some irrational move to the best team in baseball, I'm a FOGIDP or whatever you obsessed Konerko haters are labeling anyone who disagrees with you these days. But, hey, gotta love strawman arguments I guess....

daveeym
07-08-2005, 03:05 PM
so now because my arguments are irrational, it's rational to compare Michael Jordan as a baseball player to Jermaine Dye as a baseball player?

I can't imagine anything I have said was that irrational...though I admit we seldom think so ungodly negatively about ourselves.

Jordan and Jermaine Dye. LOL...

The only piss in my cheerios is from the piss poor pro paulie arguments I keep seeing from the ****ing FOGIDPK. If you needed my Jordan reference to be in Teal I feel sorry for you. You're the one trying to turn this into a FOGIDPK thread when if you stick to the point of the initial posters thread It's THE STUPIDEST IDEA EVER for a midseason move when you've got the best record in baseball. In years past it wouldn't be so laughable, after the season is over it wouldn't be so laughable, RIGHT NOW it's laughable and pathetic.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 03:20 PM
Funny how you end the post talking about one-line childish responses after making several of them yourself. Then again, you are the master.

But hey, thanks for the typical condescending, holier-than-thou Randar post. I know I've missed reading these.

I also love the way that because I don't believe in making some irrational move to the best team in baseball, I'm a FOGIDP or whatever you obsessed Konerko haters are labeling anyone who disagrees with you these days. But, hey, gotta love strawman arguments I guess....

You're joking, right? The posts of zero value are the one-line snipes. I've tried to discuss this reasonably, but there is no rhyme or reason why Konerko should be untouchable, let alone IF THE SOX FEEL (maybe I need to repeat it 17 more times for you to grasp this concept) he can be a capable replacement for Paul at 1st base (you know, the topic of this thread)...

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with my like or dislike of Konerko, although you seem to be hell-bent on dragging this thread down that road for some reason. IN addition, your description of whatever like or dislike I have for Pauly is beyond inaccuracte and stems solely from his contribution on the diamond relative to what is expected from him and what he is paid to do so. I think Sox fans greatly overvalue Paul Konerko and refuse to see him for what he is... an inconsistent hitter who leads the world in GIDP's and can and most likely will absolutely tank for at least half of every season, all the while being the worst base-clogger in the game. He's never walked 80 times in a season and only once driven in over 100 runs...

WHY IS THIS PLAYER SO IRREPLACEABLE? It's utterly irrational. And, for the record, the last line in my post wasn't a childish shot, let alone directed at you, rather the several posters in this thread who basically just go back and forth with one-line sarcastic snipes. Where have I made any childish insults in this thread?

You're not a FOGIDP, yet all you do is repeat that I have some kind of irrational hatred of Paul Konerko. All the while, you refuse to justify this protectionist attitude about him in relation to the season we are having.

Maybe we can make some progress here is we spell things out very clearly. Answer these 2 simple questions:

1) What has Paul Konerko done that makes him too risky to move right now?

2) If the Sox feel Dye can be a capable replacement at 1st base and can address needs by making the move suggested at the start of this thread, why shouldn't they do it?

Randar68
07-08-2005, 03:21 PM
But hey, thanks for the typical condescending, holier-than-thou Randar post. I know I've missed reading these.


You're welcome. It's what happens when one is dealing with people who can't use logic and reason beyond a third grade level.

Now you can scamper away with glee knowing you succeeded in drawing it into an insult contest. Glad I could help you feel better about yourself while directing attention away from the topic at hand.

White Sox Josh
07-08-2005, 03:22 PM
When will this thread be moved to the ****house? Can we please stop personally attacking everybody. If that is someone's opinion than they can have their opinion. It might sound stupid but everybody has had stupid ideas once in a while.:wink:

NSSoxFan
07-08-2005, 03:26 PM
When will this thread be moved to the ****house? Can we please stop personally attacking everybody. If that is someone's opinion than they can have their opinion. It might sound stupid but everybody has had stupid ideas once in a while.:wink:

Let the mods worry about what goes to the roadhouse and what doesn't. In the meantime, go post some more.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 03:26 PM
When will this thread be moved to the ****house? Can we please stop personally attacking everybody. If that is someone's opinion than they can have their opinion. It might sound stupid but everybody has had stupid ideas once in a while.:wink:

Seriously man I been thinkin' the same thing.

fquaye149
07-08-2005, 03:28 PM
If you needed my Jordan reference to be in Teal I feel sorry for you. You're the one trying to turn this into a FOGIDPK thread when if you stick to the point of the initial posters thread It's THE STUPIDEST IDEA EVER for a midseason move when you've got the best record in baseball. In years past it wouldn't be so laughable, after the season is over it wouldn't be so laughable, RIGHT NOW it's laughable and pathetic.

As I've stated time and again, I agree it's a stupid trade idea. Like Randar, I just am rubbed the wrong way by the people giving Paulie so much credit for this season and saying how much chemistry would suffer if he would be moved.

daveeym
07-08-2005, 03:29 PM
Seriously man I been thinkin' the same thing.Ok you two need to go play quietly with your xbox now and leave the moderating to the mods and the namecalling to the adults. It's so nice to see that young Josh has made a new friend.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 03:33 PM
You're joking, right? The posts of zero value are the one-line snipes. I've tried to discuss this reasonably, but there is no rhyme or reason why Konerko should be untouchable, let alone IF THE SOX FEEL (maybe I need to repeat it 17 more times for you to grasp this concept) he can be a capable replacement for Paul at 1st base (you know, the topic of this thread)...

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with my like or dislike of Konerko, although you seem to be hell-bent on dragging this thread down that road for some reason. IN addition, your description of whatever like or dislike I have for Pauly is beyond inaccuracte and stems solely from his contribution on the diamond relative to what is expected from him and what he is paid to do so. I think Sox fans greatly overvalue Paul Konerko and refuse to see him for what he is... an inconsistent hitter who leads the world in GIDP's and can and most likely will absolutely tank for at least half of every season, all the while being the worst base-clogger in the game. He's never walked 80 times in a season and only once driven in over 100 runs...

WHY IS THIS PLAYER SO IRREPLACEABLE? It's utterly irrational. And, for the record, the last line in my post wasn't a childish shot, let alone directed at you, rather the several posters in this thread who basically just go back and forth with one-line sarcastic snipes.

You're not a FOGIDP, yet all you do is repeat that I have some kind of irrational hatred of Paul Konerko. All the while, you refuse to justify this protectionist attitude about him in relation to the season we are having.

Maybe we can make some progress here is we spell things out very clearly. Answer these 2 simple questions:

1) What has Paul Konerko done that makes him too risky to move right now?

2) If the Sox feel Dye can be a capable replacement at 1st base and can address needs by making the move suggested at the start of this thread, why shouldn't they do it?

Ok, let me spell it out for you then. I don't know how many more times I have to say this. I don't care about Paul Konerko. Period. I've said this at least twice today. Show me one time where I said it's risky to move Paul Konerko. Just one time. If you can do that, then I'm wrong and I won't make another post in this topic. But I'll save you the trouble. I never did. Not once did I say anything about it being risky to trade Konerko. Every single post I've made in this thread has been based around the idea of putting Dye at 1B. Yet you continue to equate me not wanting to put Dye at 1B to not wanting to trade Konerko. Those are two different thoughts. Yet you continue to link them. I've said multiple times that I don't care about trading Konerko. I've said I would trade him if a deal came along for a better 1B. Yet for some reason you continue to think because I don't want Dye at 1B, I must want Konerko there, despite the fact that I've said otherwise at least 3 different times. I have not once said anything close to resembling a statement that Konerko should be untouchable.

You want to know why I keep bringing it back to your hate of Konerko? This is why. Because no matter how many times I spell it out that I don't care about Konerko and that my opinion is based solely on not wanting Dye at 1B, you continue to think that means I don't want to trade Konerko. I have absolutely no protectionist attitude about trading Konerko. I have not once made any statement about Konerko's value to this team. I haven't made one statement about Konerko being too valuable to this team to trade or replace. If he was gone tomorrow for a better 1B, I wouldn't shed a single tear. That doesn't mean that I am in favor of moving our RF to 1B.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 03:34 PM
Ok you two need to go play quietly with your xbox now and leave the moderating to the mods and the namecalling to the adults. It's so nice to see that young Josh has made a new friend.

Dued get some respect for younger people, we don't do anything to you, so don't diss us! Because all of us have opinions too, even people our age, that's all we are doing is stating an opinion.

daveeym
07-08-2005, 03:35 PM
As I've stated time and again, I agree it's a stupid trade idea. Like Randar, I just am rubbed the wrong way by the people giving Paulie so much credit for this season and saying how much chemistry would suffer if he would be moved. Fair enough. I can live with that. Though Paulie does deserve some credit....lost track of which thread i'm fighting with you in right now, scrolled up, ok...All that aside, proposed thread idea of moving konerko by the trade deadline etc. etc. makes no sense, God may be able to hit a curveball but even he couldn't fill the holes that would create plus fill the holes that already exist on this squad. I'll walk Paulie to the amtrak station after the season to make sure he gets on the train out of town but not before then.

And I'm done with both these threads.

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 03:38 PM
You're welcome. It's what happens when one is dealing with people who can't use logic and reason beyond a third grade level.

Now you can scamper away with glee knowing you succeeded in drawing it into an insult contest. Glad I could help you feel better about yourself while directing attention away from the topic at hand.

I don't take any glee in any insults. I hate when these boards become filled with this crap. Yet you started it here with something about dues and meetings for FOGIDPK. You just couldn't leave it at civil discourse about why Dye should/shouldn't be at 1B. You had to drag it into this crap about me being a FOGIDPK because I'm not willing to go along with some move that I believe is irrational. And it's not just this time. This happens in nearly every thread where Konerko is involved.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 03:49 PM
Ok, let me spell it out for you then. I don't know how many more times I have to say this. I don't care about Paul Konerko. Period. I've said this at least twice today. Show me one time where I said it's risky to move Paul Konerko. Just one time. If you can do that, then I'm wrong and I won't make another post in this topic. But I'll save you the trouble. I never did. Not once did I say anything about it being risky to trade Konerko. Every single post I've made in this thread has been based around the idea of putting Dye at 1B. Yet you continue to equate me not wanting to put Dye at 1B to not wanting to trade Konerko. Those are two different thoughts. Yet you continue to link them. I've said multiple times that I don't care about trading Konerko. I've said I would trade him if a deal came along for a better 1B. Yet for some reason you continue to think because I don't want Dye at 1B, I must want Konerko there, despite the fact that I've said otherwise at least 3 different times. I have not once said anything close to resembling a statement that Konerko should be untouchable.

You want to know why I keep bringing it back to your hate of Konerko? This is why. Because no matter how many times I spell it out that I don't care about Konerko and that my opinion is based solely on not wanting Dye at 1B, you continue to think that means I don't want to trade Konerko. I have absolutely no protectionist attitude about trading Konerko. I have not once made any statement about Konerko's value to this team. I haven't made one statement about Konerko being too valuable to this team to trade or replace. If he was gone tomorrow for a better 1B, I wouldn't shed a single tear. That doesn't mean that I am in favor of moving our RF to 1B.

Fine. Great.

You don't want Dye at first base based on a single game that he just happenned to do very well in at the position. Perfectly understandable and I agree, based on one game it's silly for anyone to draw a concrete conclusion.

However, we've got a huge lead yet you don't want to take this chance to experiment a little to see if it broadens the options available at the deadline. You don't think we should find out if Dye can play there by giving him more opportunities between now and the trade deadline.

You're happy with the way things are and see no reason to see if doing so could help this club. Not only that, but anyone who thinks it might be a good idea to try it out while we have the opportunity to see if it might allow us to make a move to make this a better team for the post-season is irrational, illogical, and blinded by Konerko-hate...

Super. Think I've got it, thanks.

daveeym
07-08-2005, 03:51 PM
I don't take any glee in any insults. I hate when these boards become filled with this crap. Yet you started it here with something about dues and meetings for FOGIDPK. You just couldn't leave it at civil discourse about why Dye should/shouldn't be at 1B. You had to drag it into this crap about me being a FOGIDPK because I'm not willing to go along with some move that I believe is irrational. And it's not just this time. This happens in nearly every thread where Konerko is involved. And between you 2 and me and fquaye the same exact arguments have been made twice.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 03:52 PM
I don't take any glee in any insults. I hate when these boards become filled with this crap. Yet you started it here with something about dues and meetings for FOGIDPK.

That was a personal insult and childish? Talk about sensitive.

Then again, "I started it"...

"NO I didn't, you did!"

"You are!"

unreal.

IhaveNoBallsandGirlfriendhasCancer
07-08-2005, 03:57 PM
Alright Alright Alright............ Lets chill and Just talk about maybe making a move like this. No sense arguing about it, Lets just be one, lol. Wow I am so ready for the game to start already.

Iwritecode
07-08-2005, 04:06 PM
You're happy with the way things are and see no reason to see if doing so could help this club.

This team is 11 games up in first place. Obviously whatever it is they are doing must be working. Why even consider such a drastic change now?

The only way I could see upgrading this team would be to get another starting pitcher and maybe another reliever. If they move Dye to first and trade Konerko, they would just open up ANOTHER hole that would need to be filled.

Unless you think there is another player on the team (or in the minors) that could fill the hole in RF left by Dye???

Jjav829
07-08-2005, 04:29 PM
Fine. Great.

You don't want Dye at first base based on a single game that he just happenned to do very well in at the position. Perfectly understandable and I agree, based on one game it's silly for anyone to draw a concrete conclusion.

However, we've got a huge lead yet you don't want to take this chance to experiment a little to see if it broadens the options available at the deadline. You don't think we should find out if Dye can play there by giving him more opportunities between now and the trade deadline.

You're happy with the way things are and see no reason to see if doing so could help this club. Not only that, but anyone who thinks it might be a good idea to try it out while we have the opportunity to see if it might allow us to make a move to make this a better team for the post-season is irrational, illogical, and blinded by Konerko-hate...

Super. Think I've got it, thanks.

The idea of the thread wasn't just a couple games. Read the title again. It's, "Dye at First..TRADE KONERKO NOW!" That's a permanent move, not just a couple games to see how Dye can handle the position.

I don't think it's a smart move to mess with the best team in baseball this much. That's all I'm saying.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 04:51 PM
This team is 11 games up in first place. Obviously whatever it is they are doing must be working. Why even consider such a drastic change now?

The only way I could see upgrading this team would be to get another starting pitcher and maybe another reliever. If they move Dye to first and trade Konerko, they would just open up ANOTHER hole that would need to be filled.

Unless you think there is another player on the team (or in the minors) that could fill the hole in RF left by Dye???

Specifics have not really been a part of this discussion. That said, all I am saying is, if a RF'er is easier to acquire than a 1B, and you could move Dye to first.

Like I had said before, does anyone really think Brian Anderson can't come up today and hit in the .250-.275 range with some power?

Most know I really like Todd Helton and think he'd be very resurgent in this order if you could simply swap he and Konerko.

Basically, if KW's looking at pitching, with Konerko being a FA, why not move him in a deal instead of Chris Young, McCarthy, one or 2 guys like that if you don't have to? There don't appear to be any premium 1st basemen on the market other than perhaps Helton, and the hurdles related to his contract status are well documented.

Would I like Eric Chavez? SURE! Where do I sign up? Same with Helton, or a guy like Delgado... But those guys aren't available. Meanwhile, a RF'er of CF'er are much easier to come by.

By playing Dye at 1st enough to know if he's a capable replacement now, you allow yourself a much wider range of options at the deadline, being able to address CF, RF, 1B and 3rd or SS, adding 2 or 3 more positions you could fit a player in at.

That is not insignificant when you are exploring those options and want to have a plethora of options to weigh against eachother. That is the primary focus of my argument on this issue.

Randar68
07-08-2005, 04:55 PM
The idea of the thread wasn't just a couple games. Read the title again. It's, "Dye at First..TRADE KONERKO NOW!" That's a permanent move, not just a couple games to see how Dye can handle the position.


The first post was a bit over-the-top, sure, the guy even admitted it a few minutes later. I've never attempted to defend that point of view and I don't think it is reasonable to do so. However, you've got 20+ days to figure out what you are going to do if you are Ken Williams.


I don't think it's a smart move to mess with the best team in baseball this much. That's all I'm saying.

Ok, I understand that, I just agree to disagree on this specific example...

Iwritecode
07-08-2005, 04:59 PM
Specifics have not really been a part of this discussion. That said, all I am saying is, if a RF'er is easier to acquire than a 1B, and you could move Dye to first.

Like I had said before, does anyone really think Brian Anderson can't come up today and hit in the .250-.275 range with some power?

Most know I really like Todd Helton and think he'd be very resurgent in this order if you could simply swap he and Konerko.

Basically, if KW's looking at pitching, with Konerko being a FA, why not move him in a deal instead of Chris Young, McCarthy, one or 2 guys like that if you don't have to? There don't appear to be any premium 1st basemen on the market other than perhaps Helton, and the hurdles related to his contract status are well documented.

Would I like Eric Chavez? SURE! Where do I sign up? Same with Helton, or a guy like Delgado... But those guys aren't available. Meanwhile, a RF'er of CF'er are much easier to come by.

By playing Dye at 1st enough to know if he's a capable replacement now, you allow yourself a much wider range of options at the deadline, being able to address CF, RF, 1B and 3rd or SS, adding 2 or 3 more positions you could fit a player in at.

That is not insignificant when you are exploring those options and want to have a plethora of options to weigh against eachother. That is the primary focus of my argument on this issue.

You didn't mention pitching which IMO, is the one thing on this team that needs to be strengthened.

What would be easier?

trade some high level minor league guys and possibly a major leaguer or 2 for more pitching.

OR

trade some lower level minor guys and Konerko for more pitching and an outfielder.

daveeym
07-08-2005, 05:06 PM
Like I had said before, does anyone really think Brian Anderson can't come up today and hit in the .250-.275 range with some power?
Well let's see now we all know how well the messiah part deux has worked out this year aka McCarthy (AND THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION FOR OTHERS TO START UP A MCCARTHY DISCUSSION). Why would you even consider whimsically f'n with this team for the sake of getting rid of Potty Mouth Paulie. I guess I better start hitting on 17's and 18's in blackjack now because, if not, I'm risk adverse. Yeah man 17 and 18 is a great hand but I might be able to get 21. Then no one can beat me.

maurice
07-08-2005, 06:43 PM
Yet you started it here with something about dues and meetings for FOGIDPK.

That was a personal insult and childish? Talk about sensitive.

It appears that the mod-approved term is "aPaulogist."
:duck:

Tragg
07-09-2005, 09:39 AM
Like I had said before, does anyone really think Brian Anderson can't come up today and hit in the .250-.275 range with some power?
It certainly wouldn't be unusual if a player with his minor league credentials couldn't. Leaving RF for him at this point would be a needless risk.