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View Full Version : Time to Look at the Pitching, If We're Gonna Win


LVSoxFan
07-05-2005, 11:54 AM
What a weekend for pitching, and I'm startin' to worry. Last year it was the fifth starter hole; this year it's The Cubans.

I think we all agree that Buehrle, Garland and Freddy are fine. Buehrle's game at Oakland was a fluke--I think DJ's right as he now starts referring to Oakland as our "Bermuda Triangle."

Brandon McCarthy I was worried about from the beginning. People forget, but in that first start at Wrigley they were really hitting that ball deep on him. Then came the Texas shelling, now this. I almost fell over when our five run first inning lead was suddenly gone. He's just not there yet.

And I don't know what to think of JC or El Duque anymore. Conteras can be lights out, but Friday was a joke. And somebody please tell me this: why does nobody tell him to pitch out of the stretch? The big windup? Hawk or DJ pointed out early this season that when he goes to that side windup, it's awful. And there he was Friday night, going back and forth. We literally watched as he'd struggle from the side and then he'd go to the stretch and all of a sudden he's throwing it in there.

That aside, I can't decide if he's a head case or not, to boot.

El Duque does seem to be a head case, and he can be lights out (like in Minnesota early on) or all over the place. And man, does he take a long time to pitch games, LOL.

I'm okay with the bullpen; Shingo and Viz seem to have come around as of late. Marte is iffy, but I'm not feeling the need to get rid of him.

But I really, really feel the big move we should get is another starter. I'm not sure what that would take or if we have something to trade for that, but I'm tired of feeling dread when we get to the Cubans.

What do you guys think?

Steakpita
07-05-2005, 12:00 PM
Marte's only been 'iffy' this year because he's been hurt half the time. As long as the rest of the 'pen can hold the line long enough for him to rehab all the way to 100%, which he has avoided in the past and come back too soon, he'll be lights-out for the last few months. The rest of the staff looks good. Four out of five starters are a real joy to watch out there... Jose's starts, on the other hand, each are taking about six months off my lifespan. You make a great point about his style... I dunno how Cooper hasn't fixed that yet.

mdep524
07-05-2005, 12:02 PM
What a weekend for pitching, and I'm startin' to worry. Last year it was the fifth starter hole; this year it's The Cubans.

I think we all agree that Buehrle, Garland and Freddy are fine. Buehrle's game at Oakland was a fluke--I think DJ's right as he now starts referring to Oakland as our "Bermuda Triangle."

Brandon McCarthy I was worried about from the beginning. People forget, but in that first start at Wrigley they were really hitting that ball deep on him. Then came the Texas shelling, now this. I almost fell over when our five run first inning lead was suddenly gone. He's just not there yet.

And I don't know what to think of JC or El Duque anymore. Conteras can be lights out, but Friday was a joke. And somebody please tell me this: why does nobody tell him to pitch out of the stretch? The big windup? Hawk or DJ pointed out early this season that when he goes to that side windup, it's awful. And there he was Friday night, going back and forth. We literally watched as he'd struggle from the side and then he'd go to the stretch and all of a sudden he's throwing it in there.

That aside, I can't decide if he's a head case or not, to boot.

El Duque does seem to be a head case, and he can be lights out (like in Minnesota early on) or all over the place. And man, does he take a long time to pitch games, LOL.

I'm okay with the bullpen; Shingo and Viz seem to have come around as of late. Marte is iffy, but I'm not feeling the need to get rid of him.

But I really, really feel the big move we should get is another starter. I'm not sure what that would take or if we have something to trade for that, but I'm tired of feeling dread when we get to the Cubans.

What do you guys think? I've never really liked Contreras and I probably never will- he's too scared, stubborn and stupid to be successful against good teams in big game situations. If we lost him in a Schmidt deal I wouldn't shed a tear. That said, I still think he is a serviceable 5th or maybe 4th starter for the Sox. Remember how well he was pitching in April and May?

As for El Duque, as long as he is very well-rested and healthy I think he will be a major asset come playoff time.

kevingrt
07-05-2005, 12:08 PM
I have faith in KW that if the Cuban Pitching Crisis continues until mid-late July, KW will find someone on the trade market to sure up the staff. I have more faith in El Duque when he comes back if he is healthy then Contreras. Jose scares the crap out of me everytime he steps to the mound.

As for the bullpen, I am very happy with them. Shingo and Luis are finally starting showing signs of coming around. Cotts and Politte have been exceptional nearly all season long, and I have no worries about them. Dustin is Dustin. The only spot I kind of worry about at this point is Damaso Marte. I love Damaso, but I think with this rehab start he should be good to come back after the All-Star break, with his mid 90's fastball and back-door curve working brilliantly. As for Bobby Jenks, I don't know what he can contribute this year, but this guy WILL be our closer in two years, and be an AMAZING closer for the Chicago White Sox.

But how nice is it to see our hitters crushing the ball. I love watching the fireworks go off at The Cell. I would like to see like a 15-2 demolition of the Rays with Garcia on the mound tonight.

Chez
07-05-2005, 01:47 PM
I hate to state the obvious, but the only reason to pursue a starting pitcher is if you don't think your rotation is solid enough to GET you to the playoffs (or if you can get a guy who has multiple years left on his contract). Given our current lead in the division, I think our starting pitching is good enough to get us to the playoffs -- though Contreras and El Duque are far from reliable. Once we're in, Buehrle, Garland and Garcia are all we'll need. My biggest concern is the bullpen. If Marte returns to form, then we're set. But if not, I'd like another lefthander -- Cotts has been hit his last three outings.

wdelaney72
07-05-2005, 01:59 PM
Contreras IS a head case. This is why the NYY dumped hm. Very interesting commentary from DJ and Hawk during the Oakland game. They basically railed him, calling him "stubborn" and my favorite...

HAWK: "Jose's pitching like he's afraid they were going to hit the ball. Well, they didn't, he just walked them all."

Also, DJ was talking about how AJ was firing the ball back to the mound at about 90 mph, indicating he was growing very frustrated with JC.

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but it appears that he has own agenda on the mound, which has been quite different than what the catcher has planned. If this guy continues to refuse to listen to the catcher, he needs to be moved into the pen. Having #26 out has been bad enough, but it feels like we've got glaring holes at #4 and #5 in the rotation.

No, I don't think the sky is falling. I'm just hoping (and I think he will) Kenny upgrades the starting pitching with one more arm.

As far as Marte goes, he was less than spectacular last year, as well, so I wouldn't be that optimistic that he'll "return to form".

fledgedrallycap
07-05-2005, 02:05 PM
El Duque is valuable, head case or not, and regardless it doesn't appear to be souring the clubhouse; but the guy has genuine post season experience and rises to the top when a big performance is needed. The guy can be shelved until late August in my opinion, as long as we have him down the stretch and in the post season.

Flight #24
07-05-2005, 02:39 PM
If I'm wrong, please correct me, but it appears that he has own agenda on the mound, which has been quite different than what the catcher has planned. If this guy continues to refuse to listen to the catcher, he needs to be moved into the pen. Having #26 out has been bad enough, but it feels like we've got glaring holes at #4 and #5 in the rotation.



IIRC, someone (Daver?) had said that JC was on strict orders to not shake off the catcher and work fast, which is basically Coop's mantra. Same goes for Garland. That seems to have faded somewhat recently.

IMO as the weather's warmed up and balls have started flying more, he could be more concerned about getting hit hard. Hopefully Coop & Ozzie can get him back in gear to remember that getting hit hard with no one on base is much preferable to getting hit hard after walking 2-3 guys, and infinitely preferable to simply walking those guys in.

Lip Man 1
07-05-2005, 02:45 PM
Go out and get a starter. Hernandez slides into the back end of the rotation. The new guy becomes the #4. Contreras goes to long relief until he shows otherwise.

Lip

balke
07-05-2005, 03:07 PM
Dark Cloud this sucker please. Or at least Score it. Kenny has us covered. El Duque will probably be back after the break. Marte will be back, and the deadline is far away.

NO WORRIES. Chill pills people.

MIgrenade
07-05-2005, 03:11 PM
They need a starter but they don't need another ace type who will cost them everything unless he's a true difference maker. They need someone who can give them a chance to win behind Garland, Buerhle, and Garcia and I think there are more of those out there. Right now the back end of the rotation isn't even giving them a chance and something has to change.

mdep524
07-05-2005, 03:47 PM
El Duque is valuable, head case or not, and regardless it doesn't appear to be souring the clubhouse; but the guy has genuine post season experience and rises to the top when a big performance is needed. The guy can be shelved until late August in my opinion, as long as we have him down the stretch and in the post season. I agree, there is absolutely no hurry to get El Duque back on the mound. He basically has a limited number of innings he can put on that arm, so we should "save" them now so we can use them in the playoffs.

Steakpita
07-05-2005, 03:52 PM
El Duque's being treated like Shaq right now... let him relax on the IR and save that arm (for Shaq, save those legs) for the playoffs. I sincerely doubt that he is really that sore, but he is old, and the Sox are playing it exactly right with him, no matter what reports to the contrary. I see absolutely no problem with this. Thank goodness for Jon, Mark, Freddy, and the 'pen.

PAPChiSox729
07-05-2005, 04:08 PM
Dark Cloud this sucker please. Or at least Score it. Kenny has us covered. El Duque will probably be back after the break. Marte will be back, and the deadline is far away.

NO WORRIES. Chill pills people.

I am not worried in the least bit. It would just be nice to have another quality starter if El Duque or Contreras can't do the job. It probably should be in What's the Score, but I really don't think too many people are panicking.

na_na_na_na
07-05-2005, 04:23 PM
This will probably draw alot of heat but the Clemens rumor (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3739034) is very interesting. Of course it is highly unlikely.

Hagan
07-05-2005, 04:40 PM
I dont think roger will come here. I think we should go wild and go after AJ burnett

LVSoxFan
07-05-2005, 04:53 PM
I'd like to see Schmidt. Along with every other MLB team I'm sure.

balke
07-05-2005, 04:59 PM
The Lilly idea still interests me. Its concievable, and he has nowhere to go but up. Had a good outing last week I believe. I wouldn't want to lose a starter for him though. I still believe in Contreras, he's dropped 2-3 bad outings before, just to come out and dominate 5. I'd like to see him do it again.

S.S. Lumber Yard
07-05-2005, 07:15 PM
Roger Clemens and Dany Baez

We have young players at every position. Our future is set except for maybe RF and 1B. We're running laps around this league. We actually have an opportunity to bring a title to the South Side. What is the farm for? To package together in a trade to net that final piece of the puzzle.

JB98
07-05-2005, 07:19 PM
With Buerhle, Garcia, Garland and El Duque, we have all the starting pitching we need to make the playoffs and to make some noise once we get there. I have no worries about the rotation. Maybe Contreras will come around. Maybe he won't. It doesn't matter because you don't need five starters in the playoffs anyway.

Falstaff
07-05-2005, 11:16 PM
Well I suggested it a few days ago, got shot down, but now the rumor swirls about Roger Rocket. Look at it this way: he wants to win it all one more time.
We (the White Sox) are his best opportunity this year. SO heck ya he'd OK the deal. Just what would it take? What Houston need what we got?:gulp:
Anyone got phone number Houston GM? I'll get this club thumppin!!

Lip Man 1
07-05-2005, 11:29 PM
Falstaff:

I just don't think Roger would come to the Sox for any price. He's got his series ring, his 300 wins his Hall of Fame spot reserved. What he may want to do is play with his son, an 18 year old 3rd baseman drafted by, yep, you guess it the Astros.

We'll see...

Lip

JB98
07-05-2005, 11:34 PM
Falstaff:

I just don't think Roger would come to the Sox for any price. He's got his series ring, his 300 wins his Hall of Fame spot reserved. What he may want to do is play with his son, an 18 year old 3rd baseman drafted by, yep, you guess it the Astros.

We'll see...

Lip

Also, the Astros are now 40-42 and can't be counted out in the wide-open NL wild-card race. They have come from way, way back to almost reach the .500 mark. I agree with you, Lip. The reasons for Roger to stay put outweight the reasons for him to request a trade.