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ChiSoxGirl
07-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Just in from Bryan Dolgin on the postgame show: Brandon McCarthy has been sent down to AAA Charlotte and AA pitcher Bobby Jenks has been called up. Jenks has a 1-2 record with a ERA of around 3.00 and will be in a Sox uniform for tomorrow night's game. McCarthy just hasn't been consistent enough; well, not in the good way. Let the Jenks experiment begin! El Duque... where are you???

ChiSoxRowand
07-04-2005, 11:44 PM
Why not Bajeneru? Maybe they want him to play in the AAA all-star game.

Stroker Ace
07-04-2005, 11:45 PM
I hope Jenks does well. IIRC, ESPN did a piece on him a few years back, and one of the things they touched on was how one time he got drunk and burned cigarettes out on his arm. I hope that those days are behind him and I wish him nothing but success.

batmanZoSo
07-04-2005, 11:51 PM
This guy isn't even close to ready. How anyone thought so, I have no idea. Of course, he's probably the most talented pitcher we have on the AAA club, but he wasn't even doing that well in AAA to begin with. See ya next year...maybe.

whitesoxwilkes
07-04-2005, 11:55 PM
This guy isn't even close to ready. How anyone thought so, I have no idea. Of course, he's probably the most talented pitcher we have on the AAA club, but he wasn't even doing that well in AAA to begin with. See ya next year...maybe.

Just got back from the game.

There's no doubt in my mind that McC has the raw talent to be a big league pitcher. He's got Priorlike mound presence, and is not afraid to come after guys on the inside corner. He hits spots well, but he's sorely lacking any kind of movement. If he fires one down the pipe, it's gonna stay down the pipe and turn into a gopherball.

PicktoCLick72
07-04-2005, 11:56 PM
Surprised it wasn't Baj. Maybe Kenny is auditioning Jenks for perspective trading partners.

TornLabrum
07-04-2005, 11:56 PM
I think McCarthy's performance tonight belies the idea that his outing in Detroit was a good one. Those long flies in Detroit were gopher balls tonight.

professionalfan
07-04-2005, 11:59 PM
Why not Bajeneru? Maybe they want him to play in the AAA all-star game.


because that's so important?

brewcrew/chisox
07-05-2005, 12:00 AM
This guy isn't even close to ready. How anyone thought so, I have no idea. Of course, he's probably the most talented pitcher we have on the AAA club, but he wasn't even doing that well in AAA to begin with. See ya next year...maybe.

Are Jenks numbers from AAA or AA? Someone on the postgame thread posted his numbers and it shows him in AA?

SoxFan76
07-05-2005, 12:01 AM
....good. He will be good, this isn't the year to let him get used to facing major league batters. McCarthy can wait. I want a proven major league pitcher out there. I didn't see the game today (I was at a 4th of July party) but his last start was hard to watch. Warning track shot after warning track shot....painful.

professionalfan
07-05-2005, 12:03 AM
Are Jenks numbers from AAA or AA? Someone on the postgame thread posted his numbers and it shows him in AA?


AA

Nard
07-05-2005, 12:03 AM
I'm very excited about Bobby Jenks.

He's a bigot and a complete and utter headcase but he can simply throw the heat. If this kid's head is screwed on straight, I think he'll be up here the rest of the year.

ilsox7
07-05-2005, 12:05 AM
I'm very excited about Bobby Jenks.

He's a bigot and a complete and utter headcase but he can simply throw the heat. If this kid's head is screwed on straight, I think he'll be up here the rest of the year.

A bigot? Hello, Roadhouse.

bafiarocks03
07-05-2005, 12:06 AM
yea i'd like to see Baj up here, i dont' know how good he'd do but still.....i don't know about this Jenks....hopefully he'll do good!

TaylorStSox
07-05-2005, 12:08 AM
It's probably Jenks over Baj because Jenks has the potential to make a much greater impact on this team. Worst case scenario is that he's a RH Rocker and we can send him back down and call Baj up. The best case scenario is that he has a major impact like Rodriguez had for the Angels. He has the stuff to be downright dominant.

On a side note, I'm glad that 95% of WSI isn't the GM for our team. It was unreal how many guys wanted to get rid of one of the Cubans in favor of McCarthy after spring training.

owensmouth
07-05-2005, 12:10 AM
....good. He will be good, this isn't the year to let him get used to facing major league batters. McCarthy can wait. I want a proven major league pitcher out there. I didn't see the game today (I was at a 4th of July party) but his last start was hard to watch. Warning track shot after warning track shot....painful.
We could trade for Nomo

FarWestChicago
07-05-2005, 12:15 AM
On a side note, I'm glad that 95% of WSI isn't the GM for our team. It was unreal how many guys wanted to get rid of one of the Cubans in favor of McCarthy after spring training.That was astonishing silliness. An IQ low point for this board.

Chips
07-05-2005, 12:19 AM
I heard with the demotion of McCarthy, that Cotts might get a nod to start, although I do not see why with Thursday being a day off.

Banix12
07-05-2005, 12:21 AM
I heard with the demotion of McCarthy, that Cotts might get a nod to start, although I do not see why with Thursday being a day off.

Where did you hear this? That just doesn't really sound likely since he isn't stretched out and as you said, the off day.

GiveMeSox
07-05-2005, 12:21 AM
It's probably Jenks over Baj because Jenks has the potential to make a much greater impact on this team. Worst case scenario is that he's a RH Rocker and we can send him back down and call Baj up. The best case scenario is that he has a major impact like Rodriguez had for the Angels. He has the stuff to be downright dominant.

On a side note, I'm glad that 95% of WSI isn't the GM for our team. It was unreal how many guys wanted to get rid of one of the Cubans in favor of McCarthy after spring training.

I would at this point rather see Adkins get the start and call up from AAA. He has plenty of major league experience and is due for his spot start. He was pretty solid in spring training and has been fine in AAA this year. Anyway i just think he would be the better option at this point. The last thing we need is another experiement every 5th day, rather go with a more proven guy from our roster last year.

TaylorStSox
07-05-2005, 12:23 AM
I would at this point rather see Adkins get the start and call up from AAA. He has plenty of major league experience and is due for his spot start. He was pretty solid in spring training and has been fine in AAA this year. Anyway i just think he would be the better option at this point. The last thing we need is another experiement every 5th day, rather go with a more proven guy from our roster last year.


Jenks won't be starting.

Chips
07-05-2005, 12:23 AM
Where did you hear this? That just doesn't really sound likely since he isn't stretched out and as you said, the off day.

My buddy called me as I was leaving the game and said he heard it on the radio. It sounded funny to me, still does.

Banix12
07-05-2005, 12:28 AM
McCarthy still has the talent he showed in preseason. He just needs more time in the minors, the guy for all intents and purposes was basically rushed from A-ball due to his preseason heroics. He's still very young in both age and baseball experience.

I still like him and hope he stays in the sox system, but he just isn't as major-league ready as everybody thought.

FarWestChicago
07-05-2005, 12:30 AM
I still like him and hope he stays in the sox system, but he just isn't as major-league ready as everybody thought."Everybody" didn't think he was. Basically just a bunch of goofballs. :D:

soxfanreggie
07-05-2005, 12:32 AM
We need guys in the pen who can throw the heat. With Marte down, Walker isn't a power pitcher like Marte who can throw the heat. Jenks can fit that role even though he isn't left handed.

Wasn't Jenks the guy that was throwin' well over 100. I think I remember that special...he lived out back in the woods and played for the Angels lower minor league teams. Obviously, we have harnessed his power. Getting called up means bigger money for him, and a chance to secure his family. I think he'll take the most of this opportunity for a financially secure future.

elrod
07-05-2005, 12:37 AM
We don't need a start from the El Duque position until after the AS Break. Freddy goes tomorrow, JC on Wednesday, Garland on Friday, Buehrle on Saturday and Freddy on Sunday.

Banix12
07-05-2005, 12:38 AM
"Everybody" didn't think he was. Basically just a bunch of goofballs. :D:

Cmon, you had to have seen his preseason performances. It was very easy to be convinced that he would have an explosive year in the major leagues when you see a rookie strike out Vlad Guerrero multiple times and have multiple dominating performances. He was one of the bigger national stories in preseason. It's hard not to buy into the hype so I don't blame anyone for thinking that way.

PeteWard
07-05-2005, 12:39 AM
We need guys in the pen who can throw the heat. With Marte down, Walker isn't a power pitcher like Marte who can throw the heat. Jenks can fit that role even though he isn't left handed.

Wasn't Jenks the guy that was throwin' well over 100. I think I remember that special...he lived out back in the woods and played for the Angels lower minor league teams. Obviously, we have harnessed his power. Getting called up means bigger money for him, and a chance to secure his family. I think he'll take the most of this opportunity for a financially secure future.

I vaguely remember that but may be confused with something else. Was he the one with alcohol problems or something?

jake27
07-05-2005, 12:46 AM
We need guys in the pen who can throw the heat. With Marte down, Walker isn't a power pitcher like Marte who can throw the heat. Jenks can fit that role even though he isn't left handed.

Wasn't Jenks the guy that was throwin' well over 100. I think I remember that special...he lived out back in the woods and played for the Angels lower minor league teams. Obviously, we have harnessed his power. Getting called up means bigger money for him, and a chance to secure his family. I think he'll take the most of this opportunity for a financially secure future.yup thats jenks. if i recall, in that espn thing someone said he has thorn like 103 or somehting. but that was also like 2 years ago the espn thing was on

Lip Man 1
07-05-2005, 12:47 AM
Kevin Walker needs to be shown the door immediately, if not sooner.

Lip

TheOldRoman
07-05-2005, 12:48 AM
How in the world is Kevin Walker still on the team? I don't care if we need a lefty to replace Marte, he is HORRIBLE. I really think McCarthy would have benefitted from getting regular major league action as long relief.

DumpJerry
07-05-2005, 12:48 AM
Same thread is in Minor Observations.

ShoelessJoeS
07-05-2005, 01:02 AM
[QUOTE=TheOldRoman]How in the world is Kevin Walker still on the team? QUOTE]
i was wondering the same thing, hes garbage :?:

California Sox
07-05-2005, 01:13 AM
According to the Birmingham site, Jenks was throwing 100 last night.

Banix12
07-05-2005, 01:20 AM
According to the Birmingham site, Jenks was throwing 100 last night.

That's nice, however 100 MPH fastballs are not a guarantee of major league success, just ask Matt Anderson. Can't wait to see him pitch, I just hope he is a real pitcher and not just another thrower.

Mr. White Sox
07-05-2005, 01:21 AM
That's nice, however 100 MPH fastballs are not a guarantee of major league success, just ask Matt Anderson. Can't wait to see him pitch, I just hope he is a real pitcher and not just another thrower.

yeah, like Farnsworth when he was on the Cubs. 0 control, and a headcase.


EDIT: Looking at his stats in AA, he's had 20BB in 40.0IP...eh...

SABRSox
07-05-2005, 01:22 AM
CBS Sportsline claimed that Walker was in consideration for the open spot in the rotation. I just laughed and laughed and laughed... that's quality sports journalism right there...

Foulke You
07-05-2005, 01:27 AM
Kevin Walker needs to be shown the door immediately, if not sooner.

Lip
Agreed. I was at the game tonight and the guy's stuff just isn't there. He isn't really fooling anyone (including lefties) and it seems he has control problems with every appearance. Of course, to KW's defense, Walker wouldn't be with the team right now if Marte was healthy. BTW, am I the only one who sees the irony of a relief pitcher with control problems who has the last name "Walker"?:cool:

dcb33
07-05-2005, 01:34 AM
I would at this point rather see Adkins get the start and call up from AAA. He has plenty of major league experience and is due for his spot start. He was pretty solid in spring training and has been fine in AAA this year. Anyway i just think he would be the better option at this point. The last thing we need is another experiement every 5th day, rather go with a more proven guy from our roster last year.

With the off day this week, I would be dumbfounded if Freddy doesn't get the Sunday afternoon start (would've been B-Macs next scheduled outing) against the A's. The Sox have no business throwing any minor leaguer out there before the break.

StillMissOzzie
07-05-2005, 01:37 AM
BTW, am I the only one who sees the irony of a relief pitcher with control problems who has the last name "Walker"?:cool:

Nope, I thought the same thing back when the Pirates had a pitcher named Bob Walk.

SMO
:gulp:

Banix12
07-05-2005, 01:41 AM
Agreed. I was at the game tonight and the guy's stuff just isn't there. He isn't really fooling anyone (including lefties) and it seems he has control problems with every appearance. Of course, to KW's defense, Walker wouldn't be with the team right now if Marte was healthy. BTW, am I the only one who sees the irony of a relief pitcher with control problems who has the last name "Walker"?:cool:

He won't be around for long. He'll be gone once Marte returns if not sooner. Best case scenario he's given his walking papers tomorrow. the likely scenario is he'll be the last guy out of the pen until the all-star break, at which time either Marte or El Duque will be healthy and Walker will be sent down. The only way he stays is if Jenks does worse than him and Marte isn't ready

JB98
07-05-2005, 01:58 AM
With the off day this week, I would be dumbfounded if Freddy doesn't get the Sunday afternoon start (would've been B-Macs next scheduled outing) against the A's. The Sox have no business throwing any minor leaguer out there before the break.

I'm very certain Freddy is going to start Sunday. Otherwise, he'd have a full 10 days in between starts, and I don't think Ozzie wants to do that.

This is a weird thread. We have people suggesting Cotts is going to get a start. That idiotic. We have Jenks accused of being a bigot, which I know nothing about. And we have people still thinking that it was sensible to believe McCarthy deserved a roster spot out of spring training. You should never evaluate players on the basis of what happens during spring training, or during a September call-up. It's fools gold. McCarthy got rocked by Kansas City and Tampa Bay during this recent stint. That proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that he isn't ready for the majors yet.

And, yes, Kevin Walker needs to go. The guy doesn't have the stuff to get big-league hitters out.

Optipessimism
07-05-2005, 02:35 AM
McCarthy got rocked by Kansas City and Tampa Bay during this recent stint. That proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that he isn't ready for the majors yet.

After today, I actually would like to see McCarthy hang around in the bullpen just because he throws strikes. I'd actually rather see him come in with the bases loaded and risk giving up the longball then see Ozzie go to Walker and Vizcaino who each walk in a run like the other day.

owensmouth
07-05-2005, 03:51 AM
"Everybody" didn't think he was. Basically just a bunch of goofballs. :D:

Goofballs, led by Ozzie and Kenny Williams? I admit that I thought McCarthy might be the answer to the continuing failure that is Contreras. If Williams does trade for a starter, it's JC whose job is in jeopardy, not El Duque. He might be the most expensive minor leaguer in history, but that's where Jose really belongs. He needs to be sent down and told to pitch strictly out of the stretch. Once he proves that he has mastered pitching from the stretch, then maybe he comes back up.

Until Hernandez is ready, willing and able to resume his starting chores, JC will remain on the starting staff, even if KW is able to bring in another starter.

MHOUSE
07-05-2005, 04:34 AM
We can re-evaluate the 5th starter position and bullpen during the allstar break. McCarthy isn't ready for fulltime duty at the MLB level and we don't need a fifth starter until well after the break. Hopefully El Duque can get healthy and go the distance and if not I am positive that KW will make a play for another starter.

Aside from the Marte injury, which doesn't seem too serious, the bullpen has been solid. Vizcaino is coming around and Takatsu has done well in the 7th inning. If all we POSSIBLY have to trade for is a LH bullpen arm and a decent 5th starter then we're in great shape. I'd like to see Jenks work in 2 or 3 games before next week and showcase his stuff. Also, Bajenaru was awful last year, why is everyone so gung ho for him to get shelled again?

JRIG
07-05-2005, 05:24 AM
Also, Bajenaru was awful last year, why is everyone so gung ho for him to get shelled again?

He pitched a whole 8 1/3 innings last year with the big club. Hardly even close to enough to judge someone who's had good minorleague numbers.

And this year at AAA? 1.16 ERA in 46 2/3 IP, 29 H, 22 BB, 56K, opponents batting .182 off of him.

That's an even better K rate than Bobby "Mr. 100 MPH" Jenks.

SpringfldFan
07-05-2005, 06:03 AM
Oh, where's Danny Wright when you need him?

Randar68
07-05-2005, 07:46 AM
He pitched a whole 8 1/3 innings last year with the big club. Hardly even close to enough to judge someone who's had good minorleague numbers.

And this year at AAA? 1.16 ERA in 46 2/3 IP, 29 H, 22 BB, 56K, opponents batting .182 off of him.

That's an even better K rate than Bobby "Mr. 100 MPH" Jenks.

Jenks has 2 pitches better than anything Baj throws. I understand the love for Baj, but he doesn't have anywhere near the potential Jenks does. Jenks has been nearly unhittable for the last month in AA. 100 mph fastball and a 12-6 curve in the mid-80's that's off-the-table.

Baj could be a decent RH'd releiver Jenks has the potential to be one of the best closers in baseball.

Are we trying to win or are we just here to promote guys who have been "good guys"?

infohawk
07-05-2005, 09:00 AM
I heard with the demotion of McCarthy, that Cotts might get a nod to start, although I do not see why with Thursday being a day off.

Hopefully it wouldn't be one of those "let's let everyone out of the bullpen throw two or three innings" games.

Steakpita
07-05-2005, 10:51 AM
Anyone else really, really glad we're not talking about Jon Rauch/Felix Diaz right now?

McCarthy impressed me, even while getting shelled. It really sounds and looks like he learned a lot from spending some time with the "big boys" (Buehrle-Garland-Garcia). I hope we keep him, give him another year in AAA to work on that breaking ball and he will be a good one. Plus, I mean, he's tall, skinny, and sort of... well... I mean, he looks a little bit like a young Randy Johnson. That's pretty cool. It IS about time for RJ to pass the "I look like a giant evil bird on the mound" title belt to someone new, maybe Brandon's the man.

One other thing. I would MUCH rather see any number of pitchers out there for us than Jose right now. That first Oakland game was flat out painful. Maybe the only game for us this year, win or lose, that I really haven't enjoyed at least a little bit. Just thinking about it makes me sorta sick right now... Props to BMac for looking like a pro out there, throwing strikes, and taking a lot from the experience. Here's hoping next time he can keep that ERA under 8.

kevingrt
07-05-2005, 10:55 AM
I'm so excited to see the former Halos prospect come up for the good guys. This kid can really pitch and throw the ball. I'm so exciterd for this kid, maytbe a couple years he can become an amazing closer. One that stays in the role for awhile, Mariano Riveria type closer.

I don't know why but I have a very good feeling about Bobby Jenks.

JB98
07-05-2005, 12:04 PM
After today, I actually would like to see McCarthy hang around in the bullpen just because he throws strikes. I'd actually rather see him come in with the bases loaded and risk giving up the longball then see Ozzie go to Walker and Vizcaino who each walk in a run like the other day.

Walker sucks. I'll give you that. But do you honestly think we're better off with McCarthy in the bullpen than Vizcaino? I sure don't. Vizcaino was a big reason we won the game last night. He came in with first and second and no outs in the fourth. He put out the fire and held a tenuous 6-5 lead. I don't believe McCarthy has the experience to do that.

I suppose you could argue that we're better off with McCarthy than Walker. However, Brandon would just be sent back to the minors when Marte comes back, and he'd be pitching only sparingly in long relief or mop up in the meantime. What good would that do? IMO, McCarthy is better off getting his innings as a starter down in Charlotte.

White Sox Josh
07-05-2005, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Optipessimism
After today, I actually would like to see McCarthy hang around in the bullpen just because he throws strikes. I'd actually rather see him come in with the bases loaded and risk giving up the longball then see Ozzie go to Walker and Vizcaino who each walk in a run like the other day.
HE IS NOT MAJOR LEAGUE READY YET PERIOD!!! And if these games that McCarthy has pitched don't prove it than I don't know what is.

gobears1987
07-05-2005, 12:12 PM
We will likely go with a 4 man rotation until El Duque is ready. When he was healthy earlier in the year he was dominant. Now that he has healed, he will likely look as he did in April and early May.

Brian26
07-05-2005, 12:29 PM
He hits spots well, but he's sorely lacking any kind of movement. If he fires one down the pipe, it's gonna stay down the pipe and turn into a gopherball.

This is exactly what I noticed last night watching on tv. When he makes a mistake with his heater, it's right down the pipe and straight as an arrow.

Banix12
07-05-2005, 01:20 PM
Also, Bajenaru was awful last year, why is everyone so gung ho for him to get shelled again?

I remember being at the first game Bajenaru played in last season against Seattle. He wasn't shelled but he gave up a couple runs due to some pathetic defense that night by the middle infield. Since they were miscues, not errors, they got tacked on to his ERA.

As I recall he only had two really bad outings last season, the rest of the time he was ok. Certainly though it looks like he has solved something down in the minors this year so he looks like he would be worth a look.

TaylorStSox
07-05-2005, 02:08 PM
This is exactly what I noticed last night watching on tv. When he makes a mistake with his heater, it's right down the pipe and straight as an arrow.

He does a few things wrong. First, he doesn't pitch up in the zone. Everything is down, down, down. That's fine if you have a sinker or a splitter. He needs to make guys move their eyes and their feet and keep them honest. Second, he has a good curve but he can't get guys to chase it because they're always looking down in the zone. He rarely throws it for strikes so hitters know they can lay off it. When he does throw the curve for strikes, it flattens out. Third, he needs to have faith in his change. It actually has better movement than it did in Spring Training. Then, it was all motion, now it bites more. Lastly, AJ's pitch selection wasn't good for McCarthy. He wasn't calling for fastballs up. He was so worried about getting ahead of hitters that he grooved too many pitches.

He'll put it all together, but not now.

MisterB
07-05-2005, 02:51 PM
He does a few things wrong. First, he doesn't pitch up in the zone. Everything is down, down, down.

That's kind of funny, because his first couple of starts everything he threw was up in the zone. Once batters (Texas in particular) figured out they weren't going to see any strikes at the knees, they just sat on something up and teed off on it.

TaylorStSox
07-05-2005, 02:55 PM
That's kind of funny, because his first couple of starts everything he threw was up in the zone. Once batters (Texas in particular) figured out they weren't going to see any strikes at the knees, they just sat on something up and teed off on it.

Hanging breaking balls don't count for pitching effectively up in the zone.

MisterB
07-05-2005, 04:21 PM
Hanging breaking balls don't count for pitching effectively up in the zone.

And neither do straight, 92 mph fastballs at the belt for more than one time through a major league lineup. The fact is that until recently, McCarthy had lived up in the zone and gave up a lot of fly balls (some longer than others) as a consequence. Then again, if he can't get his curve over for a strike or hangs it often, it doesn't matter where he throws it...

TaylorStSox
07-05-2005, 04:28 PM
And neither do straight, 92 mph fastballs at the belt for more than one time through a major league lineup. The fact is that until recently, McCarthy had lived up in the zone and gave up a lot of fly balls (some longer than others) as a consequence. Then again, if he can't get his curve over for a strike or hangs it often, it doesn't matter where he throws it...


Pitching belt high isn't pitching up. I'm not talking about him pitching up in the zone for strikes. He needs to move hitters eyes and feet. He wasn't keeping guys honest.

Sonik22
07-05-2005, 04:41 PM
Does anybody know how old bobby jenks is? Also i dont think the white sox should go into the 4 man rotation until el duque gets back. I dont want to risk one of them getting hurt.

Randar68
07-05-2005, 04:45 PM
Does anybody know how old bobby jenks is? Also i dont think the white sox should go into the 4 man rotation until el duque gets back. I dont want to risk one of them getting hurt.

They have the off days to set it up so nobody is going on shorter-than-usual rest. No biggie.

Randar68
07-05-2005, 04:48 PM
McCarthy lived inside in the minors and I've yet to see him effectively establish that in his major league starts. He threw some great strike-3 curves last night that were not called and without using his change effectively, he had nothing to do to move a hitter's eyes.

I'm surprised nobody has talked about his lack of inside pitching, it's crucial when you're not a flame-thrower. He needed to go to the change instead of trying to throw curves higher in the zone to get them called as strikes. That's why he was hanging them, IMO. Early inning or 2 he was much more down in the zone but seemed to get impatient with not being able to get them called for strikes.

maurice
07-05-2005, 05:07 PM
The pitch that Huff crushed should have been inside on his hands. Once it caught the plate, the result was predictable.

There's also a bit of bad luck involved. In addition to the "strike 3 curves" that weren't called, lots of the hits were ground balls to the left side just out of the reach of Crede. In fact, one big hit would have been a GiDP if Crede were properly positioned.

StockdaleForVeep
07-05-2005, 06:14 PM
:rauch
"hey guys, miss me!??!!?"