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Cowhead418
07-01-2005, 08:32 PM
I'm not sure where this thread belongs but I wanted to start a discussion on what makes a "fan". I know plenty of White Sox "fans" who cheer for the Sox but barely watch any games. Are these people considered fans? I also went to a Sox/Cubs game last Saturday with a friend who claims to be a Sox fan but kept sending these gems my way:

"The Cubs would be one of the best teams in baseball without injuries"
"Having Frank Thomas on the team is hurting the Sox. Just like last year he was taking away quality ABs from more deserving players. (Everett '05, C Lee '04) Plus he has only played like 50 games over the past 4 seasons.":rolleyes:
After they lost the game: "You are the only fan I know that gets genuinely upset when their team loses (claims to be a huge Bears fan too).":rolleyes:
Plus he hates US Cellular and says that he'd rather see a well-played baseball game by both teams than see the Sox win (he was happy that his favorite pitcher Maddux won and couldn't care less that the Sox lost).

I know that people like this obviously aren't fans but he brings up a point: There are numerous baseball fans that don't get genuinely happy when their team wins or genuinely upset when their team loses and I know quite a few of them. Do they qualify as "fans"? What exactly are these qualifications?

RallyBowl
07-01-2005, 08:37 PM
Hmmmmmmmm. Good question. Support? Dedication? Expression? Everyone will have a different answer, because being a fan has a different meaning from person to person. I'm curious to see the responses, though.....

kevingrt
07-01-2005, 08:44 PM
Hmmmmmmmm. Good question. Support? Dedication? Expression? Everyone will have a different answer, because being a fan has a different meaning from person to person. I'm curious to see the responses, though.....

I totally agree about the great question. I have no clue the answer, but to add to the question what about people like the Ligue brothers? Were they fans, are they fans? I don't understand when ESPN goes look at thos White Sox fans, I don't even think they are fans of the team, they are just looking to find somewhere to get drunk or something.


But greta question

chisoxfan64
07-01-2005, 08:44 PM
I consider myself to be a true fan of the White Sox, because win or lose I`m always gonna cheer for them. I`ll attend the same number of games regardless of their record. I remember going to games back at Old Comiskey and you would call to ask what time the game started and they`d say what time can you be here? I start getting excited in January thinking its getting close to spring training. I get excited about the Sox driving past the park. All in all I just think a fan supports the team, win or lose and doesn`t just become gung-ho when things are going well.

Buehrle > Wood
07-01-2005, 08:46 PM
I think there are 3 main types of fans:

Die-hard
Causual
Fair-weather/Bandwagon

BRDSR
07-01-2005, 09:06 PM
Duh...The more money you spend on a team, the bigger fan you are. Thus, as holder of two partial season ticket plans, I would be among the 10,000 biggest current White Sox fans.

chitownhawkfan
07-01-2005, 09:23 PM
Being that fan is short for fanatic, I dont think anybody that shows less than a live or die attitude regarding said team should be considered a real fan. The urinal might pack in 35,000 a night but I consider those sheep to be casual observers or as I like to call them, muppets. A true fan is someone that is die hard, if you are anything less, dont bother me.

:andy
"I went to every damn game in a clown suit, you better believe I'm a fanatic"

MIgrenade
07-01-2005, 09:40 PM
Being that fan is short for fanatic, I dont think anybody that shows less than a live or die attitude regarding said team should be considered a real fan. The urinal might pack in 35,000 a night but I consider those sheep to be casual observers or as I like to call them, muppets. A true fan is someone that is die hard, if you are anything less, dont bother me.

I'm agreeing with you more and more. I know a lot of people who say they are Sox or Cubs fans but have to ask me what their records are or how they are playing. For me though I just hate people asking me things so maybe that's the real problem.
Anyway, I think if someone claims to be a fan they should be able to hold a conversation about the team even if it isn't in depth.

Daver
07-01-2005, 09:51 PM
None of us that work for the site are fans, we do this strictly for the money.

Bisco Stu
07-01-2005, 09:59 PM
I'm high when they win.

Sick to my gut when they lose.

But always loyal.

That's a fan.

lbtigerfan
07-02-2005, 12:04 AM
I'm high when they win.

Sick to my gut when they lose.

But always loyal.

That's a fan.

Couldn't have said it better. Loyalty would be my answer as well. Win or lose.. they're your team. Trust me, I know. I'm a SAINTS fan!:redneck

TornLabrum
07-02-2005, 12:38 AM
None of us that work for the site are fans, we do this strictly for the money.

I know I wouldn't be writing a weekly column here if George wasn't paying me the big bucks.

White Sox Josh
07-02-2005, 12:48 AM
Supporting your team through thick and thin.

SSN721
07-02-2005, 08:43 AM
Supporting your team through thick and thin.

THick and Thin

EdHerman12
07-02-2005, 09:49 AM
For me if the Sox were to say move to another town or fold....I wouldn't watch baseball anymore....the main thing is that as a fan you experience the joys and sorrows of the team. Many folks here on this site have some great things to say. At the same time, it's not life or death. I want the boys to win just as much as everyone else does. The one thing I cannot and will not accept though is a lack of effort...not when these guys are getting paid the big greenbacks they are. I understand there are days when things will not go right, but there have been, there are and there always will be players out there who go in the tank from time to time, and that's just not acceptable for me. Does it make me a bad fan to feel that way? I certainly hope we all demand an honest effort. I have to admit I don't get to as many games as I used to in days past. I'm more of a TV watcher which gives me through modern technology the ability to see what's going on without the distraction of the "Jack-In-the-Box" fan, the vendors in your way, or having to wait in line in the washroom after tossing down a few brews :gulp:


I think our fans are really into baseball and not just showing up to be seen like another place we all know....and hate:angry:

I've been watching the Sox since I was old enough to understand what was going on...I've seen a lot of great players come and go...had my share of cheering, and crying :whiner: ....but I wouldn't have it any other way...the Chicago White Sox are my team to back and as long as they're taking the field....life is good guys..:supernana:

downstairs
07-02-2005, 10:13 AM
One barometer I use (only applicable in certain cities) is those unfortunate years when the Flubs have a playoff run, or actually make the playoffs and the Sox don't.

Real Sox fans cheer on the team playing the Flubs, or ignore them. Non-fans are happy when "any Chicago team does well."

And I have no problem with it in reverse. If we make the playoffs, I'd expect real Flubs fans to be donning Angels, Baltimore, Twins hats for a few days. Nothing wrong with that.

jehosaphat
07-02-2005, 10:22 AM
I think there are 3 main types of fans:

Die-hard
Causual
Fair-weather/Bandwagon

Good typology! I'd add that all 3 types can be obnoxious, which I define as someone who is so self-centered that they take away the opportunity for other fans to enjoy the game. Someone can be mildly obnoxious (e.g., constant loud cursing throughout the game - f this or f that while you are sitting with your mom or your kids) or severely obnoxious (runs onto the field and attacks players or umps). Every team has their share of good fans and obnoxious fans. Unfortunately, the media has focused on Sox's obnoxious fans but has given Cub's obnoxious fans a free ride. Wrigley is filled with drunk frat boy types who are mildly annoying. Honestly, I feel sorry for the old time Cub fans who were loyal to the team before it became what it is today. I'm glad the Sox are marketing to families; this is a good long-term strategy for building a loyal fan base.

samram
07-02-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm not sure where this thread belongs but I wanted to start a discussion on what makes a "fan". I know plenty of White Sox "fans" who cheer for the Sox but barely watch any games. Are these people considered fans? I also went to a Sox/Cubs game last Saturday with a friend who claims to be a Sox fan but kept sending these gems my way:

"The Cubs would be one of the best teams in baseball without injuries"
"Having Frank Thomas on the team is hurting the Sox. Just like last year he was taking away quality ABs from more deserving players. (Everett '05, C Lee '04) Plus he has only played like 50 games over the past 4 seasons.":rolleyes:
After they lost the game: "You are the only fan I know that gets genuinely upset when their team loses (claims to be a huge Bears fan too).":rolleyes:
Plus he hates US Cellular and says that he'd rather see a well-played baseball game by both teams than see the Sox win (he was happy that his favorite pitcher Maddux won and couldn't care less that the Sox lost).

I know that people like this obviously aren't fans but he brings up a point: There are numerous baseball fans that don't get genuinely happy when their team wins or genuinely upset when their team loses and I know quite a few of them. Do they qualify as "fans"? What exactly are these qualifications?

I would say a fan is the exact opposite of whatever your friend is. If I were you, I would never hold a sports conversation with that person again, and if I did, I would lie through my teeth about stuff so that when he repeated it to other people, he would sound like a moron.

Red Barchetta
07-02-2005, 10:44 AM
One barometer I use (only applicable in certain cities) is those unfortunate years when the Flubs have a playoff run, or actually make the playoffs and the Sox don't.

Real Sox fans cheer on the team playing the Flubs, or ignore them. Non-fans are happy when "any Chicago team does well."

And I have no problem with it in reverse. If we make the playoffs, I'd expect real Flubs fans to be donning Angels, Baltimore, Twins hats for a few days. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm more of a Cub Ignorer than a Cub Hater. To me, they're just another team that unfortunately is in my face because they share the same market as the SOX. I don't take any immense pleasure when they lose, however I do enjoy watching the media trip over themselves when they fail. The "Bartman Game" was classic. I laughed for days, not because I'm a SOX fan, but because the huge let down after the big build-up was pure entertainment!

That's why I agree with the earlier thread on Inter-League play. To me, it's over, we tried it, let's move on. The SOX have the best record in baseball and continue to impress me, us and slowly the national media with their staying power.

As to the definition of a fan, I don't think attendance alone is a true barometer. My elderly uncle listens to or watches every game. If he feels well enough, he will try to attend a few games, however it's hard for him.

Same argument applies for all the empty Scout Seats each game....

soxruleEP
07-02-2005, 12:19 PM
I grew up in upstate New York surrounded by Yankee fans--including my brother and father. I quickly became a Yankee-hater for two reasons: to deveil my father (it was the '60s after all) and when September rolled around every year, NY would call up the best players from my beloved Syracuse Chiefs (the hometown minor league club) so they could sit on the Yankee bench and screw up the Chiefs' chances in the International League. In those days, minor league fans had more loyalty to their home town teams than to major league teams because there were only two games on tv a week (yes, Virginia, there was a time when there were only three tv channels).

When I left NY for college and met my wife--a life-long Sox fan--then moved to Chicago when we married, I became a Sox fan as well. As my friends will testify, I am as "fanatic" as any Chicago-native. Most people think I am a Southside native because of my fandom. The Sox are my team.

That's the long way around to answering the question: What does it mean to be a fan?

You want your team to win. If they are going great--like our boys are this season--you are concerned with today. If they are rebuilding, you are interested in the future. When they screw up, you say so. But the next day, you're back, hoping against hope for a win.

But people who are not fans of your team better not criticize them.

It's like being a parent. You always know your children's failings, but no body else better point them out.

bunnybrief
07-02-2005, 01:28 PM
What makes a fan, or what makes a White Sox fan?

I'm asking cos White Sox fans have a culture all their own - they don't seem to be the optimistic types.

Optimistic for a Sox fan just means, 'yeah, maybe we'll win the division this year'. And when they suck, they suck. Your friend who would rather see a well-played game is right. Why waste your money otherwise?

DarkCloudDropo
07-02-2005, 01:35 PM
If a person claims to be a fan, then he's a fan. Funny, it's only the fanatics that believe they need to catagorize other fans. Why? Is there a fan competition?

The term "fan' may derive from the word fanatic, but it doesn't mean the same thing. Unless you believe there can be a 'casual fanatic'.
It's a pet peeve of mine that others feel they can tell you what kind of fan you really are.

Here's an idea! Let everyone else root they way they want to root. Is that too much to ask?

bludupree
07-02-2005, 01:58 PM
If a person claims to be a fan, then he's a fan. Funny, it's only the fanatics that believe they need to catagorize other fans. Why? Is there a fan competition?

The term "fan' may derive from the word fanatic, but it doesn't mean the same thing. Unless you believe there can be a 'casual fanatic'.
It's a pet peeve of mine that others feel they can tell you what kind of fan you really are.

Here's an idea! Let everyone else root they way they want to root. Is that too much to ask?

I agree that people have the right to be whatever kind of fan they want to be. If you are a wrigley fan and want to just have a good time then fine. Baseball games are a form of entertainment. The problem is when these people get loud and obnoxious and are covered in the ugliest color in the world (aka cubbie blue) and start talking crap about the sox to a die hard. If you don't know anything about your team or baseball then you need to keep your mouth shut when you are around people who do.

As far as a definition of a fan goes I don't think you can base it on a person's attendance. I personally go to as many games as I can. I have a 27-game package and I live in St. Louis. However there are people who do not have the money and/or the time to make this happen. I like the post a lot that said in good years you think about today and in bad you think about the future. I think this is a good barometer of a die hard fan. If you are watching games in a sub .500 season to learn about the young guys and the direction of the team's future then that is a good sign.

Attending games in a bad season is a sign I don't like to use. A lot of people will say "Cub fans are the best because they pack the stadium when the team is bad". I say that "Cub fans are the stupidest because the team has absolutely no incentive to put a winning team on the field." In reality most of those people are Wrigley fans who could care less either way. Real fans do need to attend games when the team is bad, but attendance alone doesn't tell the story.

Go Sox

Cellview22
07-02-2005, 02:14 PM
If a person claims to be a fan, then he's a fan. Funny, it's only the fanatics that believe they need to catagorize other fans. Why? Is there a fan competition?



I know a lot of people who claim to be fans, but in all honesty, they're not.

They're known as a Sox or Cubs fan among their friends because they're in it for the image. It's all just an image thing. They don't sit down and watch the games on tv, they don't follow the standings, in fact they have to ask me if the Sox won. They want to be known as a Sox fan, or Cubs fan, just because it's cool, or it fits their personality. For example, Mancow tells everyone he's a Sox fan, but still he has to ask Al Roeker what happened. The majority of "fans" are just like that; I wouldn't consider them fans, because they haven't invested any emotion into the team. They've invested zero emotion! Like the friend of the initial poster, they have no concept of what it's like to be a fan. To be an actual fan, you have to have invested emotion into your team...feel sick when they choke, feel elated when they win. Sorry if it offends anyone, that's just my opinion.

Cubs fans are the worst when it comes to this. So many of them love going to games just so they can dress up, gotta wear a Cubs hat, and being among a huge crowd. ..."It was sooo fun, I felt so cool wearing all that blue, we gotta go back, tell me when they're back in town". :rolleyes:

soxjim
07-03-2005, 11:41 AM
I have a tendency to go overboard in supporing the SOX. Anyway I can I will listen, watch or go on the chat line to see what they are doing. Just saw the SOX sweep the Tigers earlier this week. Have been on the red line going to SOX games and see cub fans heading to wrigley; they could not even name their starting pitcher. All they can talk about is how they can get on TV. A Real SOX fan will discuss strategies and are truly upset when the SOX lose.

chitownhawkfan
07-03-2005, 12:58 PM
What makes a fan, or what makes a White Sox fan?

I'm asking cos White Sox fans have a culture all their own - they don't seem to be the optimistic types.

Optimistic for a Sox fan just means, 'yeah, maybe we'll win the division this year'. And when they suck, they suck. Your friend who would rather see a well-played game is right. Why waste your money otherwise?

:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:
Is this guy serious, he would rather see a loss by the White Sox in a close game, than watch the Sox pound the hell out of somebody. Look at this guys bio, he rubs.
:andy
Get this loser out of here