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View Full Version : El Duque out till after All Star Break!


GiveMeSox
06-28-2005, 12:08 AM
This is according to rotoworld.

Orlando Hernandez (shoulder) may be out until after the All-Star break.
Hernandez initially said he expected to return this week, but the White Sox are playing it very safe with his recovery. Hernandez played catch yesterday and will only be allowed to throw long toss during Chicago's upcoming road trip. ''We're going to go a little slow with him,'' trainer Herm Schneider said.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=6019

Crap I really think we need another starter, McCarthy isn't the answer. We need a solid guy who can perform day in and day out and give us a chance to win. Maybe someone from the brewers like Doug Davis or Capuano. Possibly sele or franklin from Seattle.

The Dude
06-28-2005, 12:14 AM
This is according to rotoworld.

Orlando Hernandez (shoulder) may be out until after the All-Star break.
Hernandez initially said he expected to return this week, but the White Sox are playing it very safe with his recovery. Hernandez played catch yesterday and will only be allowed to throw long toss during Chicago's upcoming road trip. ''We're going to go a little slow with him,'' trainer Herm Schneider said.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=6019

Crap I really think we need another starter, McCarthy isn't the answer. We need a solid guy who can perform day in and day out and give us a chance to win. Maybe someone from the brewers like Doug Davis or Capuano. Possibly sele or franklin from Seattle.


Yeah it is looking like we might need another pitcher. I hope he will recover soon, but if he cant be reliable, we need someone who can. BMac doesnt seem ready, we will see how he fairs in his next start.

Jjav829
06-28-2005, 12:27 AM
This is according to rotoworld.

Orlando Hernandez (shoulder) may be out until after the All-Star break.
Hernandez initially said he expected to return this week, but the White Sox are playing it very safe with his recovery. Hernandez played catch yesterday and will only be allowed to throw long toss during Chicago's upcoming road trip. ''We're going to go a little slow with him,'' trainer Herm Schneider said.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&leaguenum=&id=6019

Crap I really think we need another starter, McCarthy isn't the answer. We need a solid guy who can perform day in and day out and give us a chance to win. Maybe someone from the brewers like Doug Davis or Capuano. Possibly sele or franklin from Seattle.


This isn't really big news. I don't quite understand the exclamation mark. I think it was pretty likely from the time El Duque was put on the DL that he would be out until the All-Star break. That's only one, possibly two more starts that he is missing. McCarthy starts on Wednesday. El Duque isn't eligible to come off the DL until June 30th. If he was going to start on June 30th, Garcia could pitch on normal rest on Wednesday and El Duque on Thursday. That would mean he would make 2 starts before the break. With Bmac pitching Wednesday, he will throw again on July 4th and the Sox could then skip him in the rotation and throw Garcia on normal rest in the final game before the break. So either way you look at it, we're only talking about two starts. This is the right move.

Second, there is no way Chris Capuano or Doug Davis is getting traded. You can forget about that.

Foulke You
06-28-2005, 12:29 AM
I'm starting to wonder if El Duque's future in baseball is going to be a setup man or converted closer a la John Smoltz. I just don't think his shoulder can take the pounding of throwing 100 pitches every 5 days. When you think about it, he has the makeup of a late innings relief man: A) He is a fierce competitor with a ton of experience B) He has ice flowing through his veins as big playoff games don't faze him in the slightest C) He throws from several different arm angles and has the high leg kick...both of which could really throw off hitters after seeing a guy like Buehrle or Garland who have fluid motions to the plate.

The only thing that puts a wrench into that plan is whether El Duque would warm up to a relief position considering he has a potential $4 million in performance bonuses worked into his contract which I'm pretty sure he won't reach from the bullpen. Those performance bonuses I'm pretty sure are the reason El Duque tried to hide his shoulder soreness from the team. Also, it depends on whether KW is willing to accept that he is paying $8 million over 2 years for a relief man. In any case, if El Duque is converted to a reliever, KW needs to land a serviceable starter like Ted Lilly or Ryan Franklin to take over that spot.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 12:38 AM
Any thoughts on making a deal for a starter can wait till around the all-star break. Give McCarthy a couple more starts to prove whether he can or can't contribute. I'm not ready to completely write him off for the season based on only three starts.

And Jjav is right, there is no way that the Brewers part with Davis or Capuano. In general, the Brewers are not looking to trade any pitching especially cheap, effective pitching.

Foulke You
06-28-2005, 12:45 AM
Any thoughts on making a deal for a starter can wait till around the all-star break. Give McCarthy a couple more starts to prove whether he can or can't contribute. I'm not ready to completely write him off for the season based on only three starts.

And Jjav is right, there is no way that the Brewers part with Davis or Capuano. In general, the Brewers are not looking to trade any pitching especially cheap, effective pitching.
As far as McCarthy, I just wouldn't be comfortable floating a rookie in our rotation in a team that is poised to go deep in the playoffs regardless of how well Brandon does. I would just feel better having a veteran on the bump when we go up against the Twins, Red Sox, Orioles, and Yankees in the 2nd half of the season. This is just my opinion. I would be much more confident sending a Ted Lilly/Ryan Franklin type guy to face a Radke or Mussina in a key series down the stretch.

You and Jjav are dead on about the Brewers not dealing Davis or Capuano. If anything, I could see the Brewers being a buyer since they are still within striking distance of the wild card and they have new ownership who might want to show their fans that they are trying to win.

BRDSR
06-28-2005, 12:49 AM
Yeah it is looking like we might need another pitcher. I hope he will recover soon, but if he cant be reliable, we need someone who can. BMac doesnt seem ready, we will see how he fairs in his next start.

This next start should be a real test for BMac. An average team in a cavernous ballpark should spell success for a flyball pitcher. If BMac gets lit up against the Tigers this week then I think the Sox have two options: Send him back to the minors and keep him on track to be a starter in a year or two or trade him while he's worth something. Anything less than a quality start and I think the Sox need to end the BMac experiment for 2005.

MUsoxfan
06-28-2005, 01:03 AM
This is the middle of the season rest we should have ALL expected when he was signed. We all know the track record he has the past few years. Let's just be thankful we have the record where we can afford to rest him for a bit.

Falstaff
06-28-2005, 02:00 AM
What if
1) Roger Clemens would OK trade to White Sox - knowing it would essentially
guarantee another WS appearance
2) What do you think it would take to get this deal done?

KW- listen to the answers and consider....:dtroll:

MUsoxfan
06-28-2005, 02:02 AM
What if
1) Roger Clemens would OK trade to White Sox - knowing it would essentially
guarantee another WS appearance
2) What do you think it would take to get this deal done?

KW- listen to the answers and consider....:dtroll:

1) He'd NEVER approve a trade to the Sox

2) His asking price would be through the roof

Banix12
06-28-2005, 02:23 AM
This is the middle of the season rest we should have ALL expected when he was signed. We all know the track record he has the past few years. Let's just be thankful we have the record where we can afford to rest him for a bit.

Exactly, he's had these little tired arm bouts in the middle of the season throughout his career. Give it time and I think most of us should get the finger off the panic button.


As far as McCarthy, I just wouldn't be comfortable floating a rookie in our rotation in a team that is poised to go deep in the playoffs regardless of how well Brandon does. I would just feel better having a veteran on the bump when we go up against the Twins, Red Sox, Orioles, and Yankees in the 2nd half of the season. This is just my opinion. I would be much more confident sending a Ted Lilly/Ryan Franklin type guy to face a Radke or Mussina in a key series down the stretch.

Oh, I agree entirely. I would rather have a veteran arm over a rookie however nobody has ever said El Duque would not return to the team indefinitely. he could probably start this week but the sox are erring on the side of caution. McCarthy is likely only temporary and there seems to be no reason to panic.

Ryan Franklin is an interesting idea since he could act as a swingman/longman since he does have recent experience in the bullpen. I don't know if Lilly or El duque would be so willing to do so.

MHOUSE
06-28-2005, 03:21 AM
Let BMac fill in until the allstar break and then we have 2-3 weeks to evaluate the El Duque situation and decide if he can go the distance and into October. There's no need to panic and get another guy because he's missing two starts right now and then be stuck with a starter pitching mop-up out of the bullpen. There's no need to mess with the Politte, Marte, Hermanson combo (El Duque pitching relief was mentioned) and Cotts has been stellar also. Get someone to replace Vizcaino and IF NEEDED pickup someone on July 30th if Orlando can't go.

Flight #24
06-28-2005, 09:38 AM
Just IMO, but with a 9 game lead and the way the schedule works out (in terms of the teams he'd face), I think they want to try and figure out if Brandon's the guy or if they need to make a move for another starter in the event Duque has another setback. KW probably figures that pitching @DET and v.TAM is as good of an opportunity for BMac to show his stuff as any.

If he can be at least decent against those 2, then they'll probably stand pat until/unless something amazing comes their way(i.e. Schmidt, Clemens). If he can't, then they'll take a harder look at a Lilly/Redman type to provide some insurance.

Jurr
06-28-2005, 10:08 AM
Just IMO, but with a 9 game lead and the way the schedule works out (in terms of the teams he'd face), I think they want to try and figure out if Brandon's the guy or if they need to make a move for another starter in the event Duque has another setback. KW probably figures that pitching @DET and v.TAM is as good of an opportunity for BMac to show his stuff as any.

If he can be at least decent against those 2, then they'll probably stand pat until/unless something amazing comes their way(i.e. Schmidt, Clemens). If he can't, then they'll take a harder look at a Lilly/Redman type to provide some insurance.
Hell, I'd take Mark Redman's 3.42 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 57 K/21BB any day.
He'd be the guy to get if KW's smart.

Steakpita
06-28-2005, 10:41 AM
Redman's been pretty solid all year long - good groundball pitcher who would probably benefit from being on the same staff as MB, just like Garland did. He would be a good pickup, if the Pirates would part with him... however, what do you think the asking price would be? I bet we'd have to at least give up one top prospect and maybe Everett, and that's a lot to pay. They have the right idea - try McCarthy out now while the games don't mean much, and either you know that you have to go after one more starter, or you know you'll be fine. In this case, I think we'll be fine. But the TRADE LUIS VIZCAINO bandwagon is taking off here in a minute... let's give him to a contender for a young talented pitcher, a la Garland for Karchner, Alfonseca for Willis... do the cubs have anyone like that in their farm system now that they want to throw away? :cool:

Flight #24
06-28-2005, 11:05 AM
Redman's been pretty solid all year long - good groundball pitcher who would probably benefit from being on the same staff as MB, just like Garland did. He would be a good pickup, if the Pirates would part with him... however, what do you think the asking price would be? I bet we'd have to at least give up one top prospect and maybe Everett, and that's a lot to pay. They have the right idea - try McCarthy out now while the games don't mean much, and either you know that you have to go after one more starter, or you know you'll be fine. In this case, I think we'll be fine. But the TRADE LUIS VIZCAINO bandwagon is taking off here in a minute... let's give him to a contender for a young talented pitcher, a la Garland for Karchner, Alfonseca for Willis... do the cubs have anyone like that in their farm system now that they want to throw away? :cool:

redman's not likely to come cheap because he is relatively cheap. About 4.5mil this year and a mutual option that would tap out at about 5mil for '06. Given the pitching market, that's not an incredible value, but it's decent and it's likely something the Pirates can afford. This isn't an Aramis Ramirez situation where they's worried about him breaking the bank and looking to dump the salary.

Ol' No. 2
06-28-2005, 11:14 AM
Just IMO, but with a 9 game lead and the way the schedule works out (in terms of the teams he'd face), I think they want to try and figure out if Brandon's the guy or if they need to make a move for another starter in the event Duque has another setback. KW probably figures that pitching @DET and v.TAM is as good of an opportunity for BMac to show his stuff as any.

If he can be at least decent against those 2, then they'll probably stand pat until/unless something amazing comes their way(i.e. Schmidt, Clemens). If he can't, then they'll take a harder look at a Lilly/Redman type to provide some insurance.That's pretty much the way I see it, too. Give Hernandez a good rest and see if he can pitch effectively after the break. I figured at the start of the season that 25 starts and 150 IP was the maximum safe level for him if they want him around for the playoffs. He's almost halfway to that now. With off-days in August they might be able to skip over him to give him another break. But they need to find out if McCarthy is an adequate fill-in or if they need a Plan B. His next two starts should go a long way toward answering that question.

Flight #24
06-28-2005, 11:34 AM
FWIW - this might be a good time to make a move on Redman. Pirates just had Oliver Perez break his toe kicking a cart, & he's on the 15-day (at least). That could be the impetus for them to start looking at '06.

Irishsox1
06-28-2005, 12:32 PM
The biggest issue is Jose Contreas. That guy has a nack for giving up the key homerun, a wild pitch or just bad pitching. If the Sox do pick up another starter, I'm infavor of Contreas to the pen or trade him.

skottyj242
06-28-2005, 12:40 PM
I'm still praying that somehow, someway KW can land Jason Schmidt.

Steakpita
06-28-2005, 02:49 PM
Schmidt'd break the bank... I bet there's no way he pulls the trigger. Besides, we already have an Ace (capital-A Ace) and two other guys pitching like #1's. Granted, it would be nice, but so would trading for Halladay, and I don't think that's goanna happen.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 04:10 PM
The biggest issue is Jose Contreas. That guy has a nack for giving up the key homerun, a wild pitch or just bad pitching. If the Sox do pick up another starter, I'm infavor of Contreas to the pen or trade him.

In no way is Contreras the White Sox biggest problem. He still has the knack for giving up a bad homerun here and there but he's still been amazingly effective 75% of the time. Everybody here forgets that while Contreras is older and has been pitching longer than say Jon Garland, he still has a few years less major league experience than Garland. Contreras is just starting to come into his own and finally seems to be adjusting to the league.

MIgrenade
06-28-2005, 04:17 PM
Schmidt'd break the bank... I bet there's no way he pulls the trigger. Besides, we already have an Ace (capital-A Ace) and two other guys pitching like #1's. Granted, it would be nice, but so would trading for Halladay, and I don't think that's goanna happen.

Everyone is worried about breaking the bank but remember that KW said that their payroll left room for adding at the deadline. I think they have the money to make a big move if they feel it will win a World Series, and deffinitely if they think he can be re-signed.

hold2dibber
06-28-2005, 04:38 PM
Everyone is worried about breaking the bank but remember that KW said that their payroll left room for adding at the deadline. I think they have the money to make a big move if they feel it will win a World Series, and deffinitely if they think he can be re-signed.

I think the "breaking the bank" reference when referring to Schmidt meant the talent the Sox would have to give up to get him, not the $ he'd be paid once he arrived.

FarWestChicago
06-28-2005, 04:58 PM
This isn't really big news. I don't quite understand the exclamation mark.Yep, much ado about nothing. :D:

Tragg
06-28-2005, 05:08 PM
If we do anything, get a #5 on the cheap. A lilly, burnett is exactly what we don't need.
I like the idea above to give El D a rest and see if we can do without having to overreact in the trade market.