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CYGarland20
06-27-2005, 02:32 AM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but i read about it on foxsports.com. The article was posted by Ken Rosenthal and it says that The Marlins are in preliminary discussions with the Orioles and another "Undisclosed AL club", hmm wonder who that could be, to trade Burnett. Basically the Marlins are looking to add a few more parts to their team, as well as unloading Burnett since he will be a free agent after the end of the year, and will ask for alot of $. In exchange for Burnett, they want a young starting pitcher(McCarthy?), a left handed outfielder(Everett?) and a quality reliever(Takatsu and/or Vizcaino?) to help them in their push for the pennant. Now I know McCarthy has struggled, but his main problem has been giving up the long ball, which is not hard to do in Charlotte(which makes Coors field seem like Comerica Park), but Joe Robbie stadium is a fly ball pitcher's park, where i think he could possibly thrive. As for Vizcaino and Takatsu, both these guys have a proven track record, and were both closers, and have pitched better of late, so it's not like were pulling the wool over the Marlins eyes.......... If we were able to pull a deal like this off, we would have THE best starting staff in the league, It would also allow us to move El Duque to the BP, where at this point in his career may be best for him, and move Contreras down in the rotation. Now I'm really not sure if Florida would go for this trade, in fact probably not, but it is possible, isn't it :rolleyes:.... how's this starting 5......Burnett, Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras. Don't it give ya chills :cool:......Also, Boston is very interested as well, and if they were able to obtain him that would be very bad for us come playoff time.

Mr. White Sox
06-27-2005, 02:35 AM
yeah, i just don't see this happening. First of all, trading Carl away, as I've said before, probably isn't a good idea considering Frank is just back and there's no other backup DH. Plus, I don't think that A. McCarthy will be traded and B. The Marlins will bite on this trade. I don't think acquiring McCarthy, Everett and Vizcaino/Takatsu will HELP them at all, especially while they are making a playoff run

CYGarland20
06-27-2005, 02:39 AM
I don't think acquiring McCarthy, Everett and Vizcaino/Takatsu will HELP them at all I wouldn't say it won't help them, but they would probably want more in return. It would sure be nice if they bit on that, but it might be a pipe dream

Mr. White Sox
06-27-2005, 02:40 AM
I wouldn't say it won't help them, but they would probably want more in return. It would sure be nice if they bit on that, but it might be a pipe dream

Yeah, I didn't phrase that well. I mean, I don't think acquiring those three players will help them more than A.J. Burnett can.

CubKilla
06-27-2005, 02:44 AM
Burnett ain't going to the Sox..... BOOK IT..... literally.....

Joosh
06-27-2005, 02:51 AM
Burnett ain't going to the Sox..... BOOK IT..... literally.....

I wonder if you would have said that about Garcia too...

I find this to be very interesting. They might take Vizcaino and possibly Jeff Bajenaru if we threw them together. While I would rather not give them both up, If Kenny could do it I would pull the trigger in a second.

(http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jeff%20Bajenaru&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=milb&pid=434117)

Banix12
06-27-2005, 02:57 AM
Not going to happen unless they decide they can't compete in the NL East this year and raise the white flag. He and Willis are pretty much personally keeping the team in the playoff race with Beckett often injured and Leiter scuffling.

I especially think the three you suggest trading won't be traded. If the marlins would take one of the minor league hitters, Sweeney or Anderson, and a few of the other arms in the system then sure. I just think McCarthy is as close to untouchable as a prospect can get right now.

CubKilla
06-27-2005, 03:00 AM
I wonder if you would have said that about Garcia too...

I find this to be very interesting. They might take Vizcaino and possibly Jeff Bajenaru if we threw them together. While I would rather not give them both up, If Kenny could do it I would pull the trigger in a second.



I did say it..... and Garcia did us alot of good last season come playoff time.....

CYGarland20
06-27-2005, 03:02 AM
I just think McCarthy is as close to untouchable as a prospect can get right now. Your kidding right? McCarthy is NOT Beckett, Prior or Harden. He is a very good prospect, but if the right deal comes along, i'd pull the trigger in a second

Joosh
06-27-2005, 03:04 AM
Not going to happen unless they decide they can't compete in the NL East this year and raise the white flag. He and Willis are pretty much personally keeping the team in the playoff race with Beckett often injured and Leiter scuffling.

I especially think the three you suggest trading won't be traded. If the marlins would take one of the minor league hitters, Sweeney or Anderson, and a few of the other arms in the system then sure. I just think McCarthy is as close to untouchable as a prospect can get right now.

I would rather have Burnett locked up for 2 or 3 years rather than keepng McCarthy who could easily be a crapshoot. Burnett is proven.

All I'm saying, is if the right deal comes along, you have to pull the trigger for a team like this.

CubKilla
06-27-2005, 03:06 AM
Your kidding right? McCarthy is NOT Beckett, Prior or Harden.

You can check your 'Cub-loving' colors at the door.....

Banix12
06-27-2005, 04:03 AM
I still just have no understanding why Florida would even be dangling Burnett now when they are only 4.5 games out of first place and in second place for the wild card. I know he's gonna be a free agent but Beckett has been injured and Leiter ineffective. They need him to stay in the race more than a Lefty OF, a young pitcher, and a reliever.

beckett21
06-27-2005, 02:36 PM
I still just have no understanding why Florida would even be dangling Burnett now when they are only 4.5 games out of first place and in second place for the wild card. I know he's gonna be a free agent but Beckett has been injured and Leiter ineffective. They need him to stay in the race more than a Lefty OF, a young pitcher, and a reliever.

They will dangle him because he will bring a king's ransom in trade. Otherwise, they lose him for nothing at the end of the season.

Talk about an impact player.....Burnett is as good as advertised and he looks healthy. Bump him to the top of my wish list. :thumbsup:

SOXPHILE
06-27-2005, 02:46 PM
No way that happens. The Marlins, Braves, Phillies and Nationals are all battling it out in the N.L. East, not to mention the fact that the N.L. Wild Card will probably come from there as well. Why would they deal one of their best pitches ?

Jjav829
06-27-2005, 09:04 PM
No way that happens. The Marlins, Braves, Phillies and Nationals are all battling it out in the N.L. East, not to mention the fact that the N.L. Wild Card will probably come from there as well. Why would they deal one of their best pitches ?

A lot of people are missing the point here. I've seen a lot of posts like this, saying the Marlins wouldn't trade Burnett because they are contenders. These posts are completely missing the point. The Marlins aren't looking to dump Burnett for prospects. This isn't like the Freddy Garcia deal last year where the Mariners were looking to get good, young prospects. The Marlins are looking to do with Burnett what they did with Brad Penny last year. They took Penny and were able to acquire a starting catcher which they desperately needed, a good middle reliever to help them get the ball to Benitez and a starting OF. That allowed them to put Conine at 1B full-time and start Encarnacion in RF.

Well now they are looking to do the same thing again. Their bullpen is a mess. They were relying on Mota to successfully make the transition from setup man to closer. Mota did a decent job early but then he got hurt. While he was out, Todd Jones closed and did a good job. When Mota returned, McKeon left Jones in the closers role and had Mota setting up. Well now Mota has been bad as a setup man, leaving the Marlins bullpen in some trouble. They really don't have much in the bullpen that they can count on other than Jones. Alfonseca might be back in a couple weeks which would be a significant boost to their pen. Still, they need middle relief help and they don't want to go with Encarnacion everyday in right. Hence the idea of putting Burnett on the block.

What they're trying to do is trade Burnett, who they are most likely not going to be able to re-sign, for 3 major league ready pieces who can contribute right now. They'll be losing a very good pitcher, though I guess they feel that with Beckett returning soon, Willis dominating and Moehler pitching surprisingly well, they can afford to lose a little starting pitching to get more balance overall. That's why they want 3 major league ready players. The starting pitcher can take Burnett's spot and they'll upgrade their bullpen and outfield.

I can see the Sox and Marlins finding a match between the two clubs. Everett, while not the best defensive outfielder, would be a nice upgrade offensively, giving the Marlins another lefty in their lineup. I think Everett would be a must. The rest of the deal would be the question. The reliever included in the deal would most likely have to be Marte, Cotts or Politte. Politte is probably out of the question from the Sox perspective. The Marlins only have one lefty in their pen, and he's pitched well in only limited action. Both Marte or Cotts would make sense for them. The question is whether it makes sense for the Sox to give up either of them. The last piece would be the starting pitcher and that's where it gets a bit more interesting. Would the Marlins want McCarthy? He's probably not much of an upgrade over what they currently have. If they want to go with a rookie for this year, they can just stick with Scott Olsen. It depends on how highly they think of McCarthy. I would say that something like Everett, McCarthy and Marte/Cotts is probably what it would take to get a deal done.

MIgrenade
06-27-2005, 09:59 PM
Ya know what would be great...
If there was a 3 way deal with the Marlins and Orioles and the Sox could find a way to get Mora. I don't see the Sox getting Burnett because I think the Orioles have a lot of hitting to give up and are more desperate for pitching. They would have to part with someone of that caliber to get Burnett. I can't comprehend how this would work out because I don't know enough about their needs but that would help the Sox I think.

mdep524
06-27-2005, 10:12 PM
... I would say that something like Everett, McCarthy and Marte/Cotts is probably what it would take to get a deal done. Great post, Jjav, good rundown of why a Burnett trade could make the Marlins a better team.

Hypothetical: Would you trade Everett, McCarthy and Marte for AJ Burnett? I wouldn't.

Jurr
06-27-2005, 10:17 PM
Ya know what would be great...
If there was a 3 way deal with the Marlins and Orioles and the Sox could find a way to get Mora. I don't see the Sox getting Burnett because I think the Orioles have a lot of hitting to give up and are more desperate for pitching. They would have to part with someone of that caliber to get Burnett. I can't comprehend how this would work out because I don't know enough about their needs but that would help the Sox I think.
Sweeney or Anderson would have to go, along with McCarthy and/or someone like Cotts. It wouldn't make sense.

Banix12
06-27-2005, 10:56 PM
I think the Orioles have more to offer in the way of young major league ready hitting than the sox. If they package Penn, Jorge Julio, and one or two of their hitters, say from the group of Newhan, Matos or Bigbie, I think they get him.

Everett has a few strikes against him that wouldn't make him attractive to florida. Bad defense in that huge outfield is one. He is a free agent after this season who they would be unlikely to resign since they can get better players for the amount he would be asking for. The only player he can replace in the lineup is Encarnacion, who is having a season on par with Everett and has been hitting right handers better than everett so a platoon makes little sense. It's like trading to acquire an older version of the player you already have.

I think we can safely rule him out of any trade to florida.

Trading the starting pitcher who is leading your team in strikeouts for a 34 year old OF with bad knees (who would likely be a platoon player in Florida), a rookie pitcher, and a middle reliever does not improve the Marlins to the point where they compete this season. If they are ready to give up the season, then fine but that trade is not going to happen if they have any concept of going for it this year.

Jjav829
06-27-2005, 11:38 PM
I think the Orioles have more to offer in the way of young major league ready hitting than the sox. If they package Penn, Jorge Julio, and one or two of their hitters, say from the group of Newhan, Matos or Bigbie, I think they get him.

Everett has a few strikes against him that wouldn't make him attractive to florida. Bad defense in that huge outfield is one. He is a free agent after this season who they would be unlikely to resign since they can get better players for the amount he would be asking for. The only player he can replace in the lineup is Encarnacion, who is having a season on par with Everett and has been hitting right handers better than everett so a platoon makes little sense. It's like trading to acquire an older version of the player you already have.

I think we can safely rule him out of any trade to florida.

Trading the starting pitcher who is leading your team in strikeouts for a 34 year old OF with bad knees (who would likely be a platoon player in Florida), a rookie pitcher, and a middle reliever does not improve the Marlins to the point where they compete this season. If they are ready to give up the season, then fine but that trade is not going to happen if they have any concept of going for it this year.

Trading the starting pitcher who is leading your team in strikeouts? What the hell? Is he Kerry Wood now? They're not gonna trade him because he leads the team in strikeouts? That sounds like the reasoning Cubs fans use to argue that Kerry Wood is a better pitcher than Buehrle. If the Marlins don't trade Burnett, it's going to be because they believe they are a better team with him than with what they can get for him, or because they believe they can re-sign him. But I would almost guarantee you that leading the team in strikeouts is not going to be a significant factor in what they do with Burnett.

Obviously the biggest piece of a deal like this would be the starting pitcher.
There are very few teams that are going to give up a good, lefthanded hitting outfielder. Unless some team steps up with one, the deal isn't going to hinge on the outfielder. None of the Orioles outfielders you mentioned is going to make or break the deal. Newhan isn't young. He's a 31-year-old who bounced around in his career until finally putting together a decent season in 2004. He's no prize. Matos is a light hitting righty, which doesn't fit their supposed wish for a lefty, and he has never shown anything that would make the Marlins jump on him. Bigbie is a spare part. He's a decent player, and the best of the three you mentioned, but I doubt the Marlins are getting excited about possibly getting Larry Bigbie. Carl Everett, while old and not very good defensively, is about the best they are going to get for this year. True, he's struggled batting lefty this year, but he's been a much better left-handed hitter in his career. I suspect he will come around from the left side. If the Marlins are looking for a long term outfielder, then this wouldn't be a match. I don't believe that is the case though.

Like I said, any trade would hinge on the Marlins interest in whichever starting pitcher they can get. If they really like Cabrera or Penn more than McCarthy or whichever starting pitcher the Sox offer up, then the Orioles have a better shot. Penn is a rookie himself, so the Orioles have no advantage there, and Cabrera is only in his second year. I seriously doubt this trade is coming down to Everett or Bigbie. The Sox, if they are interested, have just as good of a chance to land Burnett as the Orioles.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 03:01 AM
Trading the starting pitcher who is leading your team in strikeouts? What the hell? Is he Kerry Wood now? They're not gonna trade him because he leads the team in strikeouts? That sounds like the reasoning Cubs fans use to argue that Kerry Wood is a better pitcher than Buehrle. If the Marlins don't trade Burnett, it's going to be because they believe they are a better team with him than with what they can get for him, or because they believe they can re-sign him. But I would almost guarantee you that leading the team in strikeouts is not going to be a significant factor in what they do with Burnett.

Ok, I'll expand. You don't trade away your starting pitcher who leads the team in K's, has a 3:1 strikeout to walk ratio, has an ERA slightly above 3.00, that teams are only hitting .250 against (tying with Dontrelle Willis on the team), for the afforementioned Rookie starter, 34 year OF with Bad Knees and the middle reliever and seriously think you are improving your team for a stretch run this season. They can get better. The reliever would help immediately. But as many have said on this board, McCarthy contributing this season is a crapshoot and Everett would be an expensive Platoon on the Marlins.

And now that I look at the Orioles roster, I believe the left handed OF they are targeting is Jay Gibbons. Which if that is true, then the OF would be a major factor in the trade.

Ol' No. 2
06-28-2005, 10:29 AM
A lot of people are missing the point here. I've seen a lot of posts like this, saying the Marlins wouldn't trade Burnett because they are contenders. These posts are completely missing the point. The Marlins aren't looking to dump Burnett for prospects. This isn't like the Freddy Garcia deal last year where the Mariners were looking to get good, young prospects. The Marlins are looking to do with Burnett what they did with Brad Penny last year. They took Penny and were able to acquire a starting catcher which they desperately needed, a good middle reliever to help them get the ball to Benitez and a starting OF. That allowed them to put Conine at 1B full-time and start Encarnacion in RF.

Well now they are looking to do the same thing again. Their bullpen is a mess. They were relying on Mota to successfully make the transition from setup man to closer. Mota did a decent job early but then he got hurt. While he was out, Todd Jones closed and did a good job. When Mota returned, McKeon left Jones in the closers role and had Mota setting up. Well now Mota has been bad as a setup man, leaving the Marlins bullpen in some trouble. They really don't have much in the bullpen that they can count on other than Jones. Alfonseca might be back in a couple weeks which would be a significant boost to their pen. Still, they need middle relief help and they don't want to go with Encarnacion everyday in right. Hence the idea of putting Burnett on the block.

What they're trying to do is trade Burnett, who they are most likely not going to be able to re-sign, for 3 major league ready pieces who can contribute right now. They'll be losing a very good pitcher, though I guess they feel that with Beckett returning soon, Willis dominating and Moehler pitching surprisingly well, they can afford to lose a little starting pitching to get more balance overall. That's why they want 3 major league ready players. The starting pitcher can take Burnett's spot and they'll upgrade their bullpen and outfield.

I can see the Sox and Marlins finding a match between the two clubs. Everett, while not the best defensive outfielder, would be a nice upgrade offensively, giving the Marlins another lefty in their lineup. I think Everett would be a must. The rest of the deal would be the question. The reliever included in the deal would most likely have to be Marte, Cotts or Politte. Politte is probably out of the question from the Sox perspective. The Marlins only have one lefty in their pen, and he's pitched well in only limited action. Both Marte or Cotts would make sense for them. The question is whether it makes sense for the Sox to give up either of them. The last piece would be the starting pitcher and that's where it gets a bit more interesting. Would the Marlins want McCarthy? He's probably not much of an upgrade over what they currently have. If they want to go with a rookie for this year, they can just stick with Scott Olsen. It depends on how highly they think of McCarthy. I would say that something like Everett, McCarthy and Marte/Cotts is probably what it would take to get a deal done.This is why this makes no sense for the Sox. The Fish are going to want several major-league ready players in return. Who can the Sox afford to part with that fills the Marlins' need?

Carl Everett - probably the best fitting piece, but leaves the Sox bench pretty thin.

Jose Contreras - probably the only starter the Sox could consider trading. McCarthy is too unproven for the Marlins to take if they're still in the race.

Marte/Cotts - might be acceptable for the Marlins, but would leave the Sox bullpen dangerously thin. Walker also fits the bill, but I doubt he'd be acceptable.

Besides, this deal is way too lopsided.

MIgrenade
06-28-2005, 10:45 AM
Hopefully these discussions can go on long enough to where maybe the Marlins fall out of it. That would move their focus to prospects which the Sox can afford.

DaleJRFan
06-28-2005, 11:42 AM
A.J. Burnett's time in South Florida isn't up yet, but there were indications Monday the Marlins contemplated accelerating that timeline in recent days. According to an Orioles source, the Marlins approached the team last week with a proposal that would have sent the hard-throwing right-hander and outfielder Juan Encarnacion, both potential free agents this winter, to Baltimore.

Jorge Julio is also rumored in the deal. As much as it would kick ass to have Burnett for the second half, I don't want to see KW give up what the Marlins are asking.

Foulke You
06-28-2005, 04:46 PM
Jose Contreras - probably the only starter the Sox could consider trading. McCarthy is too unproven for the Marlins to take if they're still in the race.

This is what I was thinking as a possibility. Could KW, Cooper, and Ozzie be losing patience with Jose and looking to upgrade? Could Ozzie be spearheading this possible push for Burnett due to his ties to the Marlins? Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also, has anyone else considered the ramifications of having two A.J.s on the same team?:D:

Ol' No. 2
06-28-2005, 04:58 PM
This is what I was thinking as a possibility. Could KW, Cooper, and Ozzie be losing patience with Jose and looking to upgrade? Could Ozzie be spearheading this possible push for Burnett due to his ties to the Marlins? Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

Also, has anyone else considered the ramifications of having two A.J.s on the same team?:D:I get as frustrated as anyone watching Contreras shaking off signs, but if you look at the numbers, Contreras isn't pitching badly. When he's on, he's almost unhittable. His 4.15 ERA is better than the AL average and he earned a QS in 8 of his 15 starts. Not All-Star numbers, but not a bum, either. He walks a lot and throws a lot of wild pitches, but seems to manage to pitch his way out of it.

Burnett would be a significant upgrade, but at what additional price? I'm assuming they're going to want a solid reliever (probably a lefty), and the Sox don't exactly have them to spare. Anyway, it looks like Burnett is going to the Orioles.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 05:37 PM
I was thinking about the teams that might qualify as the "Mystery Team".

It would likely have to have the following
1) Three current major leaguers on the roster that fit the Marlins needs.
2) A willingness to sign Burnett to a long term deal upon trading.
3) Must be an American League team.

Teams that fit the bill in my opinion.

Orioles - Not the mystery team since we already know they are interested, but i'll list them for the sake of completion. Been discussed at Nauseum

Cleveland - Was looking for a starter this offseason and finally got Millwood for a 1 year deal. Millwood is not really likely to resign and Burnett could fill that void next season as well as put them as wild card favorites. Better than getting snubbed in Free Agency again. They have a good pen and can afford to lose an Arthur Rhodes or Bob Howry and have some young expendable bats like Jody Gerut and Casey Blake. Cliff Lee could be sent as the starter.

Detroit - Again, got snubbed in the offseason and would like a starting pitcher, still in the wild card chase. They don't really have the outfielder other than Nook Logan but they have some relievers to ship. Might be some interest in a Mike Maroth or Ledezma.

Seattle - Not in the playoff chase but looking to rebuild the starting pitching for next season. Has the relievers. has expendable Left Handed outfielders in Randy Winn and Raul Ibanez. Not sure how willing they would be to part with young pitching.

Texas - They have the individual parts in a package of Laynce Nix, a young pitcher (likely asking for Chris Young), and one of their relievers. Nothing Texas really can afford to give up.

White Sox - Have the individual parts but nothing they can really afford to give up, especially the bullpen arm.

Anaheim - Has a young starting pitcher in Lackey, has plenty of bullpen help, not sure how thrilled the Marlins would be with acquiring Jeff Davanon, the only available lefty OF unless Anaheim decides Chone Figgins is worth it.


The best fits I can see where the marlins could get the most seems like Baltimore, Cleveland and Seattle if they are interested in acquiring for next season. Anaheim would be a dark horse if they would be willing to part with one of the top middle releivers like Donnelly or Shields.

Ol' No. 2
06-28-2005, 05:44 PM
I was thinking about the teams that might qualify as the "Mystery Team".

It would likely have to have the following
1) Three current major leaguers on the roster that fit the Marlins needs.
2) A willingness to sign Burnett to a long term deal upon trading.
3) Must be an American League team.

Teams that fit the bill in my opinion.

Orioles - Not the mystery team since we already know they are interested, but i'll list them for the sake of completion. Been discussed at Nauseum

Cleveland - Was looking for a starter this offseason and finally got Millwood for a 1 year deal. Millwood is not really likely to resign and Burnett could fill that void next season as well as put them as wild card favorites. Better than getting snubbed in Free Agency again. They have a good pen and can afford to lose an Arthur Rhodes or Bob Howry and have some young expendable bats like Jody Gerut and Casey Blake. Cliff Lee could be sent as the starter.

Detroit - Again, got snubbed in the offseason and would like a starting pitcher, still in the wild card chase. They don't really have the outfielder other than Nook Logan but they have some relievers to ship. Might be some interest in a Mike Maroth or Ledezma.

Seattle - Not in the playoff chase but looking to rebuild the starting pitching for next season. Has the relievers. has expendable Left Handed outfielders in Randy Winn and Raul Ibanez. Not sure how willing they would be to part with young pitching.

Texas - They have the individual parts in a package of Laynce Nix, a young pitcher (likely asking for Chris Young), and one of their relievers. Nothing Texas really can afford to give up.

White Sox - Have the individual parts but nothing they can really afford to give up, especially the bullpen arm.

Anaheim - Has a young starting pitcher in Lackey, has plenty of bullpen help, not sure how thrilled the Marlins would be with acquiring Jeff Davanon, the only available lefty OF unless Anaheim decides Chone Figgins is worth it.


The best fits I can see where the marlins could get the most seems like Baltimore, Cleveland and Seattle if they are interested in acquiring for next season. Anaheim would be a dark horse if they would be willing to part with one of the top middle releivers like Donnelly or Shields.Nice analysis, except I wouldn't automatically rule out a deal with a NL team. They did it last year with Brad Penny.

Mr. White Sox
06-28-2005, 05:48 PM
This, according to yahoo! sports
The Rangers, Yankees and Tigers are among the other A.L. clubs that could have interest in Burnett. The Red Sox, awaiting the return of righthander Curt Schilling (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4267/), are not currently pursuing a trade for a starting pitcher, be it Burnett or Giants righthander Jason Schmidt (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5340/).

The Yankees could get involved for Burnett if they were willing to trade setup man Tom Gordon (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4279/) and righthander Chien-Ming Wang (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7502/), but that move could do more harm than good. The Tigers have had past interest in Burnett. The Rangers need an ace for the present and future. The Angels, White Sox and Twins are not believed to be currently interested.


Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=insidedishmarlinsputburn&prov=tsn&type=lgns)

The Dude
06-28-2005, 06:04 PM
Jorge Julio is also rumored in the deal. As much as it would kick ass to have Burnett for the second half, I don't want to see KW give up what the Marlins are asking.

cant we just give them this guy again
http://i.cnn.net/si/2004/fantasy/03/15/zola.mailbag/p1_koch_getty.jpg
"I still have it, I swear!"

Tragg
06-28-2005, 06:11 PM
This is why this makes no sense for the Sox. The Fish are going to want several major-league ready players in return. Who can the Sox afford to part with that fills the Marlins' need?

Carl Everett - probably the best fitting piece, but leaves the Sox bench pretty thin.

Jose Contreras - probably the only starter the Sox could consider trading. McCarthy is too unproven for the Marlins to take if they're still in the race.

Marte/Cotts - might be acceptable for the Marlins, but would leave the Sox bullpen dangerously thin. Walker also fits the bill, but I doubt he'd be acceptable.

Besides, this deal is way too lopsided.

And all that for a 3 month Rent - that's all you get out of the deal, a rent. It's complete lunacy to even contemplate such a trade for a #4 rent a starter.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 06:24 PM
Nice analysis, except I wouldn't automatically rule out a deal with a NL team. They did it last year with Brad Penny.


I think the wild card chase this year limits who they would be willing to trade to in the NL but yeah, you're right.

There really aren't many NL Teams I think the Marlins would consider trading with. You can rule out the whole NL East. I think you can rule out the Cardinals as that would likely just hand the NL Crown to St. Louis if they acquired an arm like his. The Cubs don't have the bullpen arm or the need for another pitcher. Milwaukee likely would not be able to sign him long term and would be reluctant to trade young pitching. Arizona already is pretty maxed out contract wise and can't sign him as well as unwilling to part with young pitching.

To me it comes down to three teams in the NL that have outside chances.

Houston - Somehow they are back in the wild card hunt. Any package from them starts with Brandon Backe. Weak in the pen but might be willing to part with someone like a Dan Wheeler. Outfielder might be a problem cause parting all they have that fits the bill is Mike Lamb and Orlando Palmerio.

Los Angeles - Injury Riddled and desperate for starters. As such, they are a bit short on major league talent right now. They have the relievers and have Jason Grabowski to offer as the hitter. Would have to convince flordia to take a minor leaguer for the pitcher.

San Diego - They have a glut of Left Handed OF. They also have plenty of relievers. Most of their starters are untouchable however. Only Tim Stauffer fits the bill of a young starter and I don't think San Diego wants to trade him. They don't exactly need Burnett and would be reluctant to sign him to a long term deal

Foulke You
06-28-2005, 06:31 PM
I get as frustrated as anyone watching Contreras shaking off signs, but if you look at the numbers, Contreras isn't pitching badly. When he's on, he's almost unhittable. His 4.15 ERA is better than the AL average and he earned a QS in 8 of his 15 starts. Not All-Star numbers, but not a bum, either. He walks a lot and throws a lot of wild pitches, but seems to manage to pitch his way out of it.

Burnett would be a significant upgrade, but at what additional price? I'm assuming they're going to want a solid reliever (probably a lefty), and the Sox don't exactly have them to spare. Anyway, it looks like Burnett is going to the Orioles.
True. Contreras also would probably have at least 2 or 3 more wins if we scored a few more runs earlier for him. Another thing to consider is that Contreras is signed for the next couple years while Burnett could be gone in a few months and then we have another gaping hole in the rotation to fill again for 2006. We might just be better off keeping Contreras unless KW is confident in signing Burnett to an extension a la Freddy Garcia.

My gut feeling is that the Yankees will end up with Burnett. I can't see them holding out much longer without shaking things up and they need pitching. However, I see no way that they'd part with Gordon in the deal as was brought up in an earlier post.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 08:00 PM
My gut feeling is that the Yankees will end up with Burnett. I can't see them holding out much longer without shaking things up and they need pitching. However, I see no way that they'd part with Gordon in the deal as was brought up in an earlier post.

I just don't see the Yankees doing it. Not only because of Gordon but because they don't have any outfielders they would want. Bernie Williams is the only guy they have who might be available and they would have to eat all of his contract for this season. It would also cost them Chien-Ming Wang who they have said they do not want to deal. I think Burnett is a Yankee only if they can find a third team with an OF to join the deal

Foulke You
06-28-2005, 10:40 PM
I just don't see the Yankees doing it. Not only because of Gordon but because they don't have any outfielders they would want. Bernie Williams is the only guy they have who might be available and they would have to eat all of his contract for this season. It would also cost them Chien-Ming Wang who they have said they do not want to deal. I think Burnett is a Yankee only if they can find a third team with an OF to join the deal
Do you think there is a possibility they would move Sheffield for Burnett? Womack is probably their only other legitimate outfielder to take over for Sheffield unless they think Ruben Sierra can play RF or LF. Perhaps they might pull a "White Sox" and sacrifice some power for pitching? The Yanks have just dropped one to the O's in extras tonight. I just wonder how long Steinbrenner will let this continue without a shakeup.

Banix12
06-28-2005, 11:00 PM
Do you think there is a possibility they would move Sheffield for Burnett? Womack is probably their only other legitimate outfielder to take over for Sheffield unless they think Ruben Sierra can play RF or LF. Perhaps they might pull a "White Sox" and sacrifice some power for pitching? The Yanks have just dropped one to the O's in extras tonight. I just wonder how long Steinbrenner will let this continue without a shakeup.

I wonder if MLB will force Steinbrenner to stop making baseball decisions sometime soon like they did in the mid-ninties if he keeps tinkering like he has the last few years.

I don't think the Marlins can take on Sheffield's contract even if the Yankees pay a portion of it, I figure they would need to pay at least 75% of his yearly salary and take Juan Encarnacion back in return for the Marlins to be able to swing it. That wouldn't fix the Marlins hole in the bullpen too. I don't think there is any way a Sheffield-Burnett trade works.

Rumor has it that the Yankees are making a run at Mark Kotsay to play CF. If they wanted to acquire him and make him part of the deal that could work but I think they'd rather keep him than keep playing the CF they have.

Foulke You
06-28-2005, 11:10 PM
I wonder if MLB will force Steinbrenner to stop making baseball decisions sometime soon like they did in the mid-ninties if he keeps tinkering like he has the last few years.

I don't the Marlins can take on Sheffield's contract even if the Yankees pay a portion of it, I figure they would need to pay at least 75% of his yearly salary and take Juan Encarnacion back in return for the Marlins to be able to swing it. That wouldn't fix the Marlins hole in the bullpen too. I don't think there is any way a Sheffield-Burnett trade works.

Rumor has it that the Yankees are making a run at Mark Kotsay to play CF. If they wanted to acquire him and make him part of the deal that could work but I think they'd rather keep him than keep playing the CF they have.
One of the reasons I brought up Sheffield is apparently, despite his bloated contract, he is one of the few Yankee players that doesn't have a no-trade clause and therefore is much easier to trade than some of the others on the roster. I agree with you that the Marlins would not do that deal unless the Yanks were willing to bite the bullet on most of Sheffield's contract.

I don't envy Brian Cashman these days. You have to figure he is a goner if the Yanks don't turn this ship around.

Banix12
06-29-2005, 12:10 AM
One of the reasons I brought up Sheffield is apparently, despite his bloated contract, he is one of the few Yankee players that doesn't have a no-trade clause and therefore is much easier to trade than some of the others on the roster. I agree with you that the Marlins would not do that deal unless the Yanks were willing to bite the bullet on most of Sheffield's contract.

I don't envy Brian Cashman these days. You have to figure he is a goner if the Yanks don't turn this ship around.

Yeah all those no-trade clauses are gonna bite them in the butt. I could see them moving Sheffield, just not to the Marlins. I wonder if they get Kotsay if they are going to just give Bernie Williams his unconditional release. Nothing like having a 12 million dollar fifth OF on the bench. The only thing worse is having a 20 million dollar first baseman who can't play worth a lick.

I gotta think Brian Cashman has one of the tougher jobs in baseball, he has to act on every little whim of Steinbrenner and take the brunt of the blame when those moves fail. At least he gets paid well for it.