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View Full Version : What about Aaron Rowand


RedPinStripes
11-17-2001, 05:54 AM
This topic may have come accross already before my time. I was wondering if everyone thinks as highly of Aaron as I do. I haven't seen a more aggressive Sox rookie then him in many years. I hate to use the comparrison now, but Ray Durham was an aggressive little bastard when he came up. Seems like he gives up on balls a lot, or just gets caught snoozin.

Anyway. My opinion is Rowand should be in LF next season. I do like him in Cf, but I think those plans are for the golden child Borchard who I think is going to suck unfortunatly.

How can you not like a guy that dives after any ball near him and crashes into walls to make a catch while Singleton would play it off the wall? Yeah, it's dangerous, but who doesn't like watching this kid play? He has every tool a good ball player needs. I don't think he will put up 30-35 hr's like some people think. Speed, great bat speed, decent arm, some power, and seemed to have a good ob% for a young guy who was a power hitter in the minors.

I will be VERY pissed off if I see Carlos the dumb ass lee In LF next year. How about you?

oldcomiskey
11-17-2001, 01:21 PM
I wont be pissed off--just disappointed if they dont get a lefty power hitter----with the new short porch in right--I still say that Higgenson is the answer

Soxheads
11-17-2001, 01:23 PM
Sorry CLR, but I say get rid of Singleton and play Rowand in CF til Borchard is ready and have Rowand be the fourth outfielder.

kermittheefrog
11-17-2001, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum
This topic may have come accross already before my time. I was wondering if everyone thinks as highly of Aaron as I do. I haven't seen a more aggressive Sox rookie then him in many years. I hate to use the comparrison now, but Ray Durham was an aggressive little bastard when he came up. Seems like he gives up on balls a lot, or just gets caught snoozin.

Anyway. My opinion is Rowand should be in LF next season. I do like him in Cf, but I think those plans are for the golden child Borchard who I think is going to suck unfortunatly.

How can you not like a guy that dives after any ball near him and crashes into walls to make a catch while Singleton would play it off the wall? Yeah, it's dangerous, but who doesn't like watching this kid play? He has every tool a good ball player needs. I don't think he will put up 30-35 hr's like some people think. Speed, great bat speed, decent arm, some power, and seemed to have a good ob% for a young guy who was a power hitter in the minors.

I will be VERY pissed off if I see Carlos the dumb ass lee In LF next year. How about you?

So let me get this straight:

You think Borchard who right now is a great minor league hitter will suck.

And you think Rowand who sucked a caribou's ass in the minors is going to have a career.

I don't follow your logic. I think Joe Borchard is going to go nuts in Charlotte next year. He'll be a home run hitter in a launch pad, the place made Rowand look good so I can only imagine how Borchard will look there.

As for Rowand, he'll probably keep running into walls.

Spiff
11-17-2001, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Rowand sucked a caribou's ass in the minors

Scandalous.

RedPinStripes
11-17-2001, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


So let me get this straight:

You think Borchard who right now is a great minor league hitter will suck.

And you think Rowand who sucked a caribou's ass in the minors is going to have a career.

I don't follow your logic. I think Joe Borchard is going to go nuts in Charlotte next year. He'll be a home run hitter in a launch pad, the place made Rowand look good so I can only imagine how Borchard will look there.

As for Rowand, he'll probably keep running into walls.

I've just got a bad feeling about Borchard. WAY too much pressure on him. I think he might be a very expensive Russel Branyon or Rob Deer. I can't say he's going to suck for sure. It's just typical since JR called him the next Mantle. I haven't seen Borchard play yet. I like Rowand just because he seems to have more fire then anyone on that team.

I hear Borchard can catch anything in his area code and has a rifle for an arm, but I also hear that he can't hit any ball with a break to it. That can change in time. I hope you can pull this post up later when the golden child is here and prove me wrong. I'd be happy if he could play great D, hit .280 and hit 40 hr. Some scouts are predicting more then that out of him. Look what is expected of this guy. He was given 5 mill by RIENSDORF before he even played rookie ball.

doublem23
11-18-2001, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
I wont be pissed off--just disappointed if they dont get a lefty power hitter----with the new short porch in right--I still say that Higgenson is the answer

Higginson? Higginson?

That bastard!

Bmr31
11-18-2001, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


So let me get this straight:

You think Borchard who right now is a great minor league hitter will suck.

And you think Rowand who sucked a caribou's ass in the minors is going to have a career.

I don't follow your logic. I think Joe Borchard is going to go nuts in Charlotte next year. He'll be a home run hitter in a launch pad, the place made Rowand look good so I can only imagine how Borchard will look there.

As for Rowand, he'll probably keep running into walls.

I agree. I dont get his logic either. Oh wait, i just read his reponse. He has a "Feeling" . LOL , yeah, thats much more important than talent..... :)

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
I agree.

Is this the real BMR? You have been agreeing with almost everything Kermit has been saying as of late. I agree that Borchard will be a better player then Rowand.

Bmr31
11-18-2001, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Is this the real BMR? You have been agreeing with almost everything Kermit has been saying as of late. I agree that Borchard will be a better player then Rowand.

I dont gun for people. Kermie has been saying a lot of things i agree with, lately. Im just always honest...

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
I dont gun for people. Kermie has been saying a lot of things i agree with, lately. Im just always honest...

I think I should be heading off to bed now, you and Kermit agreeing just doesn't happen.

Bmr31
11-18-2001, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I think I should be heading off to bed now, you and Kermit agreeing just doesn't happen.


It must be the common link of owning the BP book.... :)

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
It must be the common link of owning the BP book.... :(


I'm glad to see you finally got it.

Bmr31
11-18-2001, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



I'm glad to see you finally got it.

:) :) :) :) :)

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
:( :( :( :( :(

Now why did you have to go and do that?

Bmr31
11-18-2001, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Now why did you have to go and do that?

to **** with you.... :) :) :)

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
to **** with you.... :( :( :(

I'm going to remember everyone who is doing this to me then when I break out the anti smiley then we'll see who is ****ing with who!

Bmr31
11-18-2001, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I'm going to remember everyone who is doing this to me then when I break out the anti smiley then we'll see who is ****ing with who!


k

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
k

I'm sure your not scared and think I'm nuts. But when I unleash the anti smiley you will be see the light.

RedPinStripes
11-18-2001, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


I agree. I dont get his logic either. Oh wait, i just read his reponse. He has a "Feeling" . LOL , yeah, thats much more important than talent..... :)

I guess we'll see how Borchard turn out then. I just get a chill through my body when I think of all the hype JR and the media gives him and it might be well deserved. I'll have to remember this topic when Borchard gets to the bigs because I'm not going to argue with you about a guy that I haven't seen play much. I would hope that I'm wrong about him for the sake of the organization because JR won't be giving money like that away to a draft pick if he flops.

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I think I should be heading off to bed now, you and Kermit agreeing just doesn't happen.

Maybe it's the sign of a new age on the board. What's next? Jerry becomes a stathead and all hell breaks lose? This could get scary, better be ready for anything.

RedPinStripes
11-18-2001, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Maybe it's the sign of a new age on the board. What's next? Jerry becomes a stathead and all hell breaks lose? This could get scary, better be ready for anything.

Glad to see I already have a few posters to argue with.

Spiff
11-18-2001, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum


Glad to see I already have a few posters to argue with.

Meh, don't pay attention to kermit. I don't.

:kermit

I wonder what the bunny's on-base percentage is! Ha-ha!

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Maybe it's the sign of a new age on the board. What's next? Jerry becomes a stathead and all hell breaks lose? This could get scary, better be ready for anything.

Oh man if I ever became a stat head all hell would break loose. I don't even want to imagine it.

duke of dorwood
11-18-2001, 11:25 AM
Aaron reminds me a lot of Ken Berry, good old #16. He was Kenny Loftin defensively taking HR away over our old bullpen fence. Aaron did not take charge in center like he will with experience. I sit in left, and you could see him giving way to Lee on flies and tweeners.

LongDistanceFan
11-18-2001, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum


Glad to see I already have a few posters to argue with. ref to the mickey mantle comparsion, i don't recall that was said, was it really????

be careful of your wish to argue with poster, this board has some great talented poster who can do a great job.......... you just came in the end of the season.

ref to jm............. :):):):):):):):)

why do you hate it

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
ref to the mickey mantle comparsion, i don't recall that was said, was it really????

be careful of your wish to argue with poster, this board has some great talented poster who can do a great job.......... you just came in the end of the season.

ref to jm............. (smiley's were here)
why do you hate it

I recall hearing that the Sox scouts said he was the best power hitter they have seen in the draft since McGwire. I think the Mantle comparsion comes into play due to the fact that they were/are switching hitting power hitters. At least I believe Mantle was a switch hitter. Indeed there a quite of few people here who can argue with the best of em. I'm not one of those people though just ask Daver. As to why I hate the smiley, I don't hate the smiley itself. I dislike the fact that it rotates.

JoeBatters
11-18-2001, 12:58 PM
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/images/familys.jpg

Hey ComiskeyBum , I did find a rare photo of Rowand at a family picnic .

And o yeah , ***** at that kermit animation !

Paulwny
11-18-2001, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Is this the real BMR? You have been agreeing with almost everything Kermit has been saying as of late. .


Ah yes, Kermie has gained another year in baseball maturity. Wait 35 more years, when he's West's age now, everyone will agree with his posts.

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Ah yes, Kermie has gained another year in baseball maturity. Wait 35 more years, when he's West's age now, everyone will agree with his posts.

I think Kermit is 17 + 35 = 52.
I must be reading you wrong Paul, I don't think West is 52.

Paulwny
11-18-2001, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I think Kermit is 17 + 35 = 52.
I must be reading you wrong Paul, I don't think West is 52.

I know but, how does the saying go, wiser then one's years.
Now that West's turned 40, 52 doesn't seem that old to him anymore.

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I know but, how does the saying go, wiser then one's years.
Now that West's turned 40, 52 doesn't seem that old to him anymore.

I follow you now. George just turned 40, West is a few years past that.

Paulwny
11-18-2001, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I follow you now. George just turned 40, West is a few years past that.

Thanks, I had it reversed. The memory goes when you're an old fart.
Just for you, no rotating smiley.

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Just for you, no rotating smiley.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if you were aware of my campaign to rid WSI of the rotating smiley.

Daver
11-18-2001, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Thanks, I wasn't sure if you were aware of my campaign to rid WSI of the rotating smiley.

And I am forming the STS coalition.


:) :) :)
:):):) :)
:) :) :)

Jerry_Manuel
11-18-2001, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by daver
And I am forming the STS coalition.


I laugh at your coalition. Anway I hope Rowand is the starter in center if there is baseball in 2002. I would like to see Joe but I doubt he is ready.

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Aaron reminds me a lot of Ken Berry, good old #16. He was Kenny Loftin defensively taking HR away over our old bullpen fence. Aaron did not take charge in center like he will with experience. I sit in left, and you could see him giving way to Lee on flies and tweeners.

It's really hard for me to believe that Rowand is going to be a good centerfielder. He isn't especially fast and more importantly, it's a tougher position than right. Generally if an outfielder can play center, that's where he plays. So since Rowand had been a rightfielder I think it's pretty safe to asume that no one thought he could handle center or he was tried in center before but failed.

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Meh, don't pay attention to kermit. I don't.

:kermit

I wonder what the bunny's on-base percentage is! Ha-ha!

Man, I love that pic.

doublem23
11-18-2001, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
It's really hard for me to believe that Rowand is going to be a good centerfielder. He isn't especially fast and more importantly, it's a tougher position than right. Generally if an outfielder can play center, that's where he plays. So since Rowand had been a rightfielder I think it's pretty safe to asume that no one thought he could handle center or he was tried in center before but failed.

Same here. I'd like to think that Rowand can handle it, but I just don't see it happening. As hard as it may be for us to realize now, the best defensive centerfielder in the Sox organization is probably Julio Ramirez. Now if he would just stop going to the Royce Clayton School of Hitting, we'd be set.

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Same here. I'd like to think that Rowand can handle it, but I just don't see it happening. As hard as it may be for us to realize now, the best defensive centerfielder in the Sox organization is probably Julio Ramirez. Now if he would just stop going to the Royce Clayton School of Hitting, we'd be set.

Ha, fat chance of that. Julio has great "tools" that means he'll never actually be a ballplayer.

doublem23
11-18-2001, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Ha, fat chance of that. Julio has great "tools" that means he'll never actually be a ballplayer.

I think Julio's got some mad defensive skills, but he's just so crappy with the bat...

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


I think Julio's got some mad defensive skills, but he's just so crappy with the bat...

Oh I completely agree about Julio's defense. I remember when I saw him play for the first time and there were two balls I assumed off the bat would be doubles and he chased both down, although he did drop one. Of course he got an error for that showing the flaw in assessing errors. Most centerfielders won't even get to the ball but Ramirez got an error on it. He has a pretty good arm too.

Daver
11-18-2001, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Oh I completely agree about Julio's defense. I remember when I saw him play for the first time and there were two balls I assumed off the bat would be doubles and he chased both down, although he did drop one. Of course he got an error for that showing the flaw in assessing errors. Most centerfielders won't even get to the ball but Ramirez got an error on it. He has a pretty good arm too.

Pretty good arm?

Name one player in he Sox system that has a better arm,both in length and accuracy.

doublem23
11-18-2001, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Oh I completely agree about Julio's defense. I remember when I saw him play for the first time and there were two balls I assumed off the bat would be doubles and he chased both down, although he did drop one. Of course he got an error for that showing the flaw in assessing errors. Most centerfielders won't even get to the ball but Ramirez got an error on it. He has a pretty good arm too.

Well, at least we agree with that.. The real question concerning Julio is how much offense does this guy have to produce? I mean, realistically, if he could hit .250-.270 with 10 dingers, 50-60ish RBIs, I'd seriously consider him as a starting CF.

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Well, at least we agree with that.. The real question concerning Julio is how much offense does this guy have to produce? I mean, realistically, if he could hit .250-.270 with 10 dingers, 50-60ish RBIs, I'd seriously consider him as a starting CF.

If he did that and walked 50 or 60 times a season I'd be happy with him. Unfortunately for us he hit .216 in AAA last season with an OPS of 598. That makes him the Rey Ordonez of the International League. He's still young but he's pretty far along in the minors to not know a damn thing about hitting.

Spiff
11-18-2001, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
I wonder what the bunny's on-base percentage is! Ha-ha!

I don't think anyone got that joke.

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


I don't think anyone got that joke.

Maybe it just wasn't that funny.

Spiff
11-18-2001, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Maybe it just wasn't that funny.

Maybe you'd think it was if you got it.

Daver
11-18-2001, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Maybe you'd think it was if you got it.

I got it,what do you want me do with it?

kermittheefrog
11-18-2001, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by daver


I got it,what do you want me do with it?

Apparantly he wants you to clutch it and treat it like a good joke.

doublem23
11-19-2001, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Unfortunately for us he hit .216 in AAA last season with an OPS of 598.

Um.... I'm just going to assume you hit the 5 instead of the 2.

kermittheefrog
11-19-2001, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


Um.... I'm just going to assume you hit the 5 instead of the 2.

Huh? Julio had a .266 on-base percentage and a .332 slugging average. Comes out to a 598 OPS.

doublem23
11-19-2001, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Huh? Julio had a .266 on-base percentage and a .332 slugging average. Comes out to a 598 OPS.

D'oh! OPS! Don't pay any attention to the stupid stupid person over here.

Bmr31
11-19-2001, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Huh? Julio had a .266 on-base percentage and a .332 slugging average. Comes out to a 598 OPS.

who cares? lol

Randar68
11-20-2001, 01:13 AM
I hear Borchard can catch anything in his area code and has a rifle for an arm, but I also hear that he can't hit any ball with a break to it. That can change in time. I hope you can pull this post up later when the golden child is here and prove me wrong. I'd be happy if he could play great D, hit .280 and hit 40 hr. Some scouts are predicting more then that out of him. Look what is expected of this guy. He was given 5 mill by RIENSDORF before he even played rookie ball.


*****!!! I wasn't going to post, since I am in Korea, but you have to be the most foolish and fickle person ever to walk the face of this earth. Borchard is a very mature and confident PERSON, who has shown to be capable of handling the pressure.

Did he strike out a lot????? Yes! Did he also draw a lot of walks and have a high OBP???? YES!!!!! Please look back at Branyan and Deer's careers.

Does Sammy strike out a lot???? Yes, does that make him an offensive liability??? Let me check....NO!!!!

Please, come back when you have met or at least have first hand information about players, their personalities, or their talent level.

In one post, you essentially have destroyed your credibility. You probably think Corey Patterson is still going to be a super star in the majors, too....


"You ARE the WEAKEST LINK! Goodbye!!!!!"










bla!

LongDistanceFan
11-20-2001, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I hear Borchard can catch anything in his area code and has a rifle for an arm, but I also hear that he can't hit any ball with a break to it. That can change in time. I hope you can pull this post up later when the golden child is here and prove me wrong. I'd be happy if he could play great D, hit .280 and hit 40 hr. Some scouts are predicting more then that out of him. Look what is expected of this guy. He was given 5 mill by RIENSDORF before he even played rookie ball.


*****!!! I wasn't going to post, since I am in Korea, but you have to be the most foolish and fickle person ever to walk the face of this earth. Borchard is a very mature and confident PERSON, who has shown to be capable of handling the pressure.

Did he strike out a lot????? Yes! Did he also draw a lot of walks and have a high OBP???? YES!!!!! Please look back at Branyan and Deer's careers.

Does Sammy strike out a lot???? Yes, does that make him an offensive liability??? Let me check....NO!!!!

Please, come back when you have met or at least have first hand information about players, their personalities, or their talent level.

In one post, you essentially have destroyed your credibility. You probably think Corey Patterson is still going to be a super star in the majors, too....


"You ARE the WEAKEST LINK! Goodbye!!!!!"










bla! whats up in korea?

LongDistanceFan
11-20-2001, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
whats up in korea? what does bla means?

FarWestChicago
11-20-2001, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
"You ARE the WEAKEST LINK! Goodbye!!!!!"Use the quote feature. I don't even know who you are ripping on. :smile:

Randar68
11-20-2001, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
whats up in korea?

Not much. As one of my colleagues says, "Every country looks the same from the inside of a Lab!"

As for the "bla" question, long story, no time, someone else can explain it maybe...

LongDistanceFan
11-20-2001, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Use the quote feature. I don't even know who you are ripping on. :smile: me thinks it the one who started this thread, first page all the way down.

LongDistanceFan
11-20-2001, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Not much. As one of my colleagues says, "Every country looks the same from the inside of a Lab!"

As for the "bla" question, long story, no time, someone else can explain it maybe... cool

Randar68
11-20-2001, 01:41 AM
Use the quote feature. I don't even know who you are ripping on.

The originator of this thread, ComiskeyBum...







bla!

FarWestChicago
11-20-2001, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Use the quote feature. I don't even know who you are ripping on.

The originator of this thread, ComiskeyBum... Oh, a wise guy, huh? Still not using the quote feature. Quit being such an engineer and use the canned features. :D:

RedPinStripes
11-20-2001, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
whats up in korea?

Nothing good I would imagine. He's very confident of his OPINION, and quite bitter.

Randar68
11-20-2001, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum


Nothing good I would imagine. He's very confident of his OPINION, and quite bitter.


*****!!!! Simmer Down NOW Tool-boy!

You have what, a whopping 53 worthless posts? How long you been paying attention. I have been to many minor league games and seen Borchard and Rowand play in person many times. I think if you ask around, you'll find that my "OPINION" is more based on facts than having just a "feeling".

Please, maye you should check with your mommy before you get back on the computer and start spouting worthless drivle.

BTW, I am from Chicago, and am currently in Korea on business.

Because I have not been around a lot lately does not mean much. Bitter, no, tired, crabby, and stressed, well yes, that's what happens when you are running at 100% stress and working levels for 16 hours a day.

Please, when you show up for 2 weeks, you usually don't get off on a good foot when you insult long-time posters...

I take a lot of time and pride in knowing and disseminating as much info about the Sox minor leagues as possible, so think before you speak, and next time you have a "feeling", stick it in your pocket and shut your PC off if you know nothing about what you are talking.

RedPinStripes
11-20-2001, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by Randar68



*****!!!! Simmer Down NOW Tool-boy!

You have what, a whopping 53 worthless posts? How long you been paying attention. I have been to many minor league games and seen Borchard and Rowand play in person many times. I think if you ask around, you'll find that my "OPINION" is more based on facts than having just a "feeling".

Please, maye you should check with your mommy before you get back on the computer and start spouting worthless drivle.

BTW, I am from Chicago, and am currently in Korea on business.

Because I have not been around a lot lately does not mean much. Bitter, no, tired, crabby, and stressed, well yes, that's what happens when you are running at 100% stress and working levels for 16 hours a day.

Please, when you show up for 2 weeks, you usually don't get off on a good foot when you insult long-time posters...

I take a lot of time and pride in knowing and disseminating as much info about the Sox minor leagues as possible, so think before you speak, and next time you have a "feeling", stick it in your pocket and shut your PC off if you know nothing about what you are talking.

Why would I care of what foot I get started off on with you when your first reply was a direct shot at me? I'm supposed to back down and show respect to you because you've had more posts? Get real.

You might be right about Borchard and Rowand. Nothing is proven yet. So it's still your opinion just like every other post here.

Spiff
11-20-2001, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I am a *******

Essentially.

Randar68
11-20-2001, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


I enjoy eating ******* *** ***...

Wow, see, I can do it too!

Why would I care of what foot I get started off on with you when your first reply was a direct shot at me? I'm supposed to back down and show respect to you because you've had more posts? Get real.

Some peoples opinions are based on facts and first-hand observations, others' are based on "feelings" and reports they read from the Sporting News and writers who themselves are writing off 2nd and 3rd hand info...

You figure out which ones carry weight, and which ones are total crap...

RedPinStripes
11-20-2001, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Wow, see, I can do it too!

Why would I care of what foot I get started off on with you when your first reply was a direct shot at me? I'm supposed to back down and show respect to you because you've had more posts? Get real.

Some peoples opinions are based on facts and first-hand observations, others' are based on "feelings" and reports they read from the Sporting News and writers who themselves are writing off 2nd and 3rd hand info...

You figure out which ones carry weight, and which ones are total crap...

Like I have said to other people who disagree witth my "feeling".
I hope to hell that you're right because Jerry won't be getting anyone with the talant of Borchard out of college for 5 million and he could be worth it.

I think of the pressure on this guy. That's my main concern. If he is strong enough mentally to handle the media and the fans constantly waiting for superstar numbers, I don't have an arguement with you.

LongDistanceFan
11-20-2001, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum


. hey no offense to anybody, but randar is our resident expert on the minor leaguer, with his friend that starts with a "v". "v" is an acknowledge cubs fan.

as i said before, be careful of what you wish for, (some one to argue with), this board has some really good ones.

peace

FarWestChicago
11-20-2001, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Bitter, no, tired, crabby, and stressed, well yes, that's what happens when you are running at 100% stress and working levels for 16 hours a day.It's obvious you are crabby from your treatment of CB. I will certainly be glad when you get back to the US and have a chance to return to the kinder, gentler Randar. :smile:

Bmr31
11-20-2001, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum


Like I have said to other people who disagree witth my "feeling".
I hope to hell that you're right because Jerry won't be getting anyone with the talant of Borchard out of college for 5 million and he could be worth it.

I think of the pressure on this guy. That's my main concern. If he is strong enough mentally to handle the media and the fans constantly waiting for superstar numbers, I don't have an arguement with you.

Like i said before, you may want to go with more than "feelings" when making off the wall comments. randar is a very knowledgable baseball person.

Spiff
11-20-2001, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Wow, see, I can do it too!

Some peoples opinions are based on facts and first-hand observations, others' are based on "feelings" and reports they read from the Sporting News and writers who themselves are writing off 2nd and 3rd hand info...

You figure out which ones carry weight, and which ones are total crap...

Jeez Randar I never thought you'd be able to figure out how. Except I didn't do it just to do it, I did it to prove a point.

Re: CB

If anything you should be easier on him because he is new on the boards. He hasn't had the opportunity to be graced with your awesome scouting skills and your wonderful opinions that aren't ever wrong.

Everyone's allowed to voice their opinions and you should be bigger than to flame him like that. Who knows, maybe it is the stress or whatever that's making you crabby but it's no excuse for jumping on him when all he was saying was that he wonders if Borchard can handle the pressure on him and become the all-star he could be. Not even you can be 100% sure that he will.

Bmr31
11-20-2001, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Jeez Randar I never thought you'd be able to figure out how. Except I didn't do it just to do it, I did it to prove a point.

Re: CB

If anything you should be easier on him because he is new on the boards. He hasn't had the opportunity to be graced with your awesome scouting skills and your wonderful opinions that aren't ever wrong.

Everyone's allowed to voice their opinions and you should be bigger than to flame him like that. Who knows, maybe it is the stress or whatever that's making you crabby but it's no excuse for jumping on him when all he was saying was that he wonders if Borchard can handle the pressure on him and become the all-star he could be. Not even you can be 100% sure that he will.

and maybe CB should show more respect........

FarWestChicago
11-20-2001, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


and maybe CB should show more respect........ Huh? CB made a post. Randar went off on him. Where did CB not show respect? Everybody, and I mean everybody, needs to calm down.

Spiff
11-20-2001, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


and maybe CB should show more respect........

Oh so next time he should ask whether he can say something different than what everyone else wants to believe?

His opinion is just as valid as anyone; whether it's you, me, randar, george whoever.

Bmr31
11-20-2001, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Oh so next time he should ask whether he can say something different than what everyone else wants to believe?

His opinion is just as valid as anyone; whether it's you, me, randar, george whoever.


i didnt say that. all im saying is he got what he deserved.

Spiff
11-20-2001, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



i didnt say that. all im saying is he got what he deserved.

the sad thing is you're being honest.

Bmr31
11-20-2001, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


the sad thing is you're being honest.



absolutely. I got randars back here. we may have differences, but hes a long time poster, who has great baseball knowledge.

Spiff
11-20-2001, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31




absolutely. I got randars back here. we may have differences, but hes a long time poster, who has great baseball knowledge.

Nobody said he didn't.

But that doesn't always make him right.

Bmr31
11-20-2001, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Nobody said he didn't.

But that doesn't always make him right.

and speaking the truth, no matter how harshly, doesnt always make him wrong, either.

FarWestChicago
11-20-2001, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


and speaking the truth, no matter how harshly, doesnt always make him wrong, either. What's wrong with speaking the truth in a polite manner? It works for me.

ma-gaga
11-20-2001, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
What's wrong with speaking the truth in a polite manner? It works for me.

Randar is pretty abrasive at times. Even if you agree with what he says, you don't have to agree with how he says it. or even better, if you don't agree with what he says, you can agree with how he says it.

:)


I think I'll go hide in a corner now... :cool:

Spiff
11-20-2001, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga


Randar is pretty abrasive at times. Even if you agree with what he says, you don't have to agree with how he says it. or even better, if you don't agree with what he says, you can agree with how he says it.

:)


I think I'll go hide in a corner now... :cool:

Good idea.

They're attacking from all sides! http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/smilies/puzzled.gif

Jerry_Manuel
11-20-2001, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
It's obvious you are crabby from your treatment of CB. I will certainly be glad when you get back to the US and have a chance to return to the kinder, gentler Randar. :smile:

I like this version of Randar better. Feel free to fire on the rotating smiley next Randar :D:

Jerry_Manuel
11-20-2001, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
absolutely. I got randars back here. we may have differences, but hes a long time poster, who has great baseball knowledge.

See I'm the opposite of Randar, I'm a long time poster but I'm a putz when it comes to baseball knowledge. Just thought I would drop that in.

Iwritecode
11-20-2001, 04:13 PM
I'm reading this thread and starting to feel like I'm watching an episode of COPS. Everyone is having a shouting match and FWC is stuck in the middle trying to get everyone to calm down...

For Jerry:
:smile:

RedPinStripes
11-20-2001, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Good idea.

They're attacking from all sides! http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/smilies/puzzled.gif


Hey. Let them attack. I won't get wound up about it. This was one post of bad choice and I will admit it. It's still my opinion.

As far as showing respect goes. I treat you the way you treat me . That's my deal. Take shots at me. Don't expect me to kiss anyone's ass either. This is one post I'm getting jumped on for . so what? I've posted many other times and ther's not 75 replies telling me how wrong I am.

And for the few who can't give an opinion in a polite manner, that's a personal problem. Go ahead and insult people over something that's not agreed on. I'll go on and not show the great respect you think you deserve. I don't care if Tony LaRussa had 100,000 posts on these boards. If he couldn't argue his opinion without insulting people, I'll never back away because of his knoledge or posts. This is getting way off the topic after points have been made.

guillen4life13
11-20-2001, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I hear Borchard can catch anything in his area code and has a rifle for an arm, but I also hear that he can't hit any ball with a break to it. That can change in time. I hope you can pull this post up later when the golden child is here and prove me wrong. I'd be happy if he could play great D, hit .280 and hit 40 hr. Some scouts are predicting more then that out of him. Look what is expected of this guy. He was given 5 mill by RIENSDORF before he even played rookie ball.


*****!!! I wasn't going to post, since I am in Korea, but you have to be the most foolish and fickle person ever to walk the face of this earth. Borchard is a very mature and confident PERSON, who has shown to be capable of handling the pressure.

Did he strike out a lot????? Yes! Did he also draw a lot of walks and have a high OBP???? YES!!!!! Please look back at Branyan and Deer's careers.

Does Sammy strike out a lot???? Yes, does that make him an offensive liability??? Let me check....NO!!!!

Please, come back when you have met or at least have first hand information about players, their personalities, or their talent level.

In one post, you essentially have destroyed your credibility. You probably think Corey Patterson is still going to be a super star in the majors, too....


"You ARE the WEAKEST LINK! Goodbye!!!!!"










bla!

Now look. I'm new here, so I don't really have much authority or anything but listen. Aaron Rowand has shown that he is very good defensively, but he hasn't proven anything really offensively. He didn't get many AB's. Face it. He has to prove himself with a full year, and there's only one way to do that, right? Let him have one year in center field and see how he fares. Singleton is as good as gone, so let's not worry about him, even though I feel that he is good enough to be our center fielder. Rowand has speed, decent power, and very good defensive skills (and they'll hopefully evolve into not having to run into a wall when there's a hard hit ball). Borchard hit .290 in AA. In AAA, he'll probably have a BA of around there. That's decent, but in the majors, that doesn't equal out. Rowand is the CF for 2002, and Borchard can be the 4th outfielder and play him once every 4 days. I think that sounds good, don't you?

FarWestChicago
11-20-2001, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13


Now look. I'm new here, so I don't really have much authority or anything but listen.Welcome to WSI! You sure picked a great thread to jump in on. :smile:

doublem23
11-21-2001, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Now look. I'm new here, so I don't really have much authority or anything but listen. Aaron Rowand has shown that he is very good defensively, but he hasn't proven anything really offensively. He didn't get many AB's. Face it. He has to prove himself with a full year, and there's only one way to do that, right? Let him have one year in center field and see how he fares. Singleton is as good as gone, so let's not worry about him, even though I feel that he is good enough to be our center fielder. Rowand has speed, decent power, and very good defensive skills (and they'll hopefully evolve into not having to run into a wall when there's a hard hit ball). Borchard hit .290 in AA. In AAA, he'll probably have a BA of around there. That's decent, but in the majors, that doesn't equal out. Rowand is the CF for 2002, and Borchard can be the 4th outfielder and play him once every 4 days. I think that sounds good, don't you?

As good as Rowand is defensively, I haven't fully bought into the "Aaron Rowand is the centerfielder of the future." Yeah, he's slightly insane what with the running into walls and such, but I don't buy into his "mad defensive skills." He's not extremely fast, he doesn't have a great arm, and to top it off, he's never been an everyday centerfielder before. Hello? Isn't this why we HAVE minor league teams? Why would we want to test Rowand at CF in the majors? As for offense, he had a decent season. He has an eye, which is huge, especially in this free-swingin' lineup.

What's the final verdict? I don't see Rowand developing into a star outfielder, and I think the Sox know this. The best option our Pale Hose can take isn't to force-feed this kid a tough position jyst to fill the lineup card. The smart thing to do is bring in a solid CF. It's time this organization realizes it can't develop a solid player at every position. Look at the Yankees. Yeah, we may hate them, but they know how to build a winner. They systematically develop the core of the team (Rivera, Jeter, Williams, etc.) and then make wise trades and bring in free agents to fill the holes. All we've done so far is make a few trades, but the majority of the players on this team never had any big league expierence before they made it to 35th St. and Shields.


BTW, guillen4life13, WELCOME TO WSI!!! :)

kermittheefrog
11-21-2001, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


As good as Rowand is defensively, I haven't fully bought into the "Aaron Rowand is the centerfielder of the future." Yeah, he's slightly insane what with the running into walls and such, but I don't buy into his "mad defensive skills." He's not extremely fast, he doesn't have a great arm, and to top it off, he's never been an everyday centerfielder before. Hello? Isn't this why we HAVE minor league teams? Why would we want to test Rowand at CF in the majors? As for offense, he had a decent season. He has an eye, which is huge, especially in this free-swingin' lineup.

What's the final verdict? I don't see Rowand developing into a star outfielder, and I think the Sox know this. The best option our Pale Hose can take isn't to force-feed this kid a tough position jyst to fill the lineup card. The smart thing to do is bring in a solid CF. It's time this organization realizes it can't develop a solid player at every position. Look at the Yankees. Yeah, we may hate them, but they know how to build a winner. They systematically develop the core of the team (Rivera, Jeter, Williams, etc.) and then make wise trades and bring in free agents to fill the holes. All we've done so far is make a few trades, but the majority of the players on this team never had any big league expierence before they made it to 35th St. and Shields.


BTW, guillen4life13, WELCOME TO WSI!!! :)

Wow this Rowand thing has brought up a lot of discussion. I still think the guy is gonna fall on his face in center and at the plate. The plate discipline is a facade, in his minor league days he never had any plate discipline.

LongDistanceFan
11-21-2001, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Wow this Rowand thing has brought up a lot of discussion. I still think the guy is gonna fall on his face in center and at the plate. The plate discipline is a facade, in his minor league days he never had any plate discipline. i don't think he is all that good either.

welcome aboard.

doublem23
11-21-2001, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
The plate discipline is a facade, in his minor league days he never had any plate discipline.

This is ture. I think I did the math right, but according to the 2001 Media Guide, Rowand's minor league OBA was around .330 (just like the Sox to not give the stat that shows how bad some of their players are).

What is OBA again? (H+BB)/(AB+BB+SF) ? right? Where's that Joe Morgan book when you really need it?

kermittheefrog
11-21-2001, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


This is ture. I think I did the math right, but according to the 2001 Media Guide, Rowand's minor league OBA was around .330 (just like the Sox to not give the stat that shows how bad some of their players are).

What is OBA again? (H+BB)/(AB+BB+SF) ? right? Where's that Joe Morgan book when you really need it?

It's (H+BB+HBP)/PA. Joe Morgan has the formula for OBP in his book? Wow.

doublem23
11-21-2001, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
It's (H+BB+HBP)/PA. Joe Morgan has the formula for OBP in his book? Wow.

Yeah, its in his Baseball for Dummies book. Worst $20 I ever spent.

kermittheefrog
11-21-2001, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


Yeah, its in his Baseball for Dummies book. Worst $20 I ever spent.

Ha, what'd he write about?

I think it's pretty amusing Johnny Bench wrote the competitors book, the Complete Idiots Guide to Baseball. I leafed through that once at Barnes and Noble, the best part were the baseball nicknames for every decade. But Bill James does a lot better job of that in the Historical Baseball Abstract.

doublem23
11-21-2001, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Ha, what'd he write about?

There's some good stuff in there. He shows how to throw an assortment of different pitches and he also includes his condensed playbook (like what would he have his defense do with runners at the corners, no outs and the ball hit in the gap between left and center field.)

Its only real problem is that it never gets too in depth with anything. He only really grazes the surface, like he's afraid to spill too much knowledge. Anyone that has played the game as long as I have already knew a good 90% of the things he talks about directly relating to the game.

And then he has a whole lot of stupid "Top Ten" lists. Boring.

The only part of the book I really did like is he makes some good suggestions on other baseball books. I have used that book a lot in seeing what books he says are good while I try to build a mini-baseball library. Though I only have 6 books (and 3 of them are exclusivley about the White Sox :smile:..) Some of his suggestions are very good.

Overall, though, I don't think it's worth buying if you know the sport. If you want the book suggestions, just go to the library flip through the book and photocopy any pages that have Joe's personal book endorsements. It ain't worth buyin. I was really hoping for a book aimed at guys who are already learned in the sport, and I got a book aimed at those who've never even seen the game played (Cub fans). But then again, it is a For Dummies book, so I should have probably seen that coming.

Randar68
11-21-2001, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Borchard hit .290 in AA. In AAA, he'll probably have a BA of around there. That's decent, but in the majors, that doesn't equal out. Rowand is the CF for 2002, and Borchard can be the 4th outfielder and play him once every 4 days. I think that sounds good, don't you?


No I don't, and I doubt many baseball people would either. Nothing against you, it's your opinion, but you don't bring up a player who has obvious flaws and parts of the game they need to work on, to play once every 4 games. That's how you ruin a young player. As much as I've thought they've been too careful with Crede, I would much prefer that than they way they handled Kip. Also, as much as I would like to see Borchard open the season in CF, if he is going to ride the bench 75% of the time, I would much rather see him playing every day in AAA.

Again, just my opinion, but I think it is one shared by most people who follow player development closely...

Iwritecode
11-21-2001, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Borchard hit .290 in AA. In AAA, he'll probably have a BA of around there. That's decent, but in the majors, that doesn't equal out. Rowand is the CF for 2002, and Borchard can be the 4th outfielder and play him once every 4 days. I think that sounds good, don't you?

I have to agree with Randar here. From what I understand, Borchard is just as good as Rowand on defense and much better on offense. Plus, I don't think Jerry is gonna pay a guy 5 million to play every 4 days.

FarWestChicago
11-21-2001, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Randar68



No I don't, and I doubt many baseball people would either. Nothing against you, it's your opinion, but you don't bring up a player who has obvious flaws and parts of the game they need to work on, to play once every 4 games. That's how you ruin a young player. As much as I've thought they've been too careful with Crede, I would much prefer that than they way they handled Kip. Also, as much as I would like to see Borchard open the season in CF, if he is going to ride the bench 75% of the time, I would much rather see him playing every day in AAA.

Again, just my opinion, but I think it is one shared by most people who follow player development closely... I'm with Randar on this one. I don't want to see Borchard rushed along too fast. Let him develop a little. There has to be a happy medium between Kip and Crede.

guillen4life13
11-21-2001, 06:09 PM
Yeah, I see the sense in what Randar says. I didn't think about the $5 for playing once every four days either. That would be a big waste of money. I have high hopes for borchard, but I agree with whoever it was who said that Borchard has way too much pressure on his back right now. I think that Singleton is right now the answer, but they've all but let go of him already, so that doesn't fit. Say, maybe we can bring Ozzie Guillen outta retirement and make him play center field! (just kidding). I feel that the Sox should pursue someone like Johnny Damon at this point, because his worth won't be too much due to his subpar year. The white sox leadoff spot hasn't produced, and we need a center fielder, so... Kenny Williams had better think for a change.

Say, who approved of the Siro-Wells trade?
I sure as hell didn't.

guillen4life13
11-21-2001, 06:11 PM
Oh yeah. Thanks for the warm welcome from you all. I'm probably the youngest one in this whole thing, but at least I feel like I'm a part of it.

Oh yeah, if you think I'm being sarcastic, I'm not. Just telling you that so you don't get suspicious.

Spiff
11-21-2001, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Yeah, I see the sense in what Randar says. I didn't think about the $5 for playing once every four days either. That would be a big waste of money. I have high hopes for borchard, but I agree with whoever it was who said that Borchard has way too much pressure on his back right now. I think that Singleton is right now the answer, but they've all but let go of him already, so that doesn't fit. Say, maybe we can bring Ozzie Guillen outta retirement and make him play center field! (just kidding). I feel that the Sox should pursue someone like Johnny Damon at this point, because his worth won't be too much due to his subpar year. The white sox leadoff spot hasn't produced, and we need a center fielder, so... Kenny Williams had better think for a change.

Say, who approved of the Siro-Wells trade?
I sure as hell didn't.

I did at the time, even though I hated to see Siro go.

czalgosz
11-21-2001, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Yeah, I see the sense in what Randar says. I didn't think about the $5 for playing once every four days either. That would be a big waste of money. I have high hopes for borchard, but I agree with whoever it was who said that Borchard has way too much pressure on his back right now. I think that Singleton is right now the answer, but they've all but let go of him already, so that doesn't fit. Say, maybe we can bring Ozzie Guillen outta retirement and make him play center field! (just kidding). I feel that the Sox should pursue someone like Johnny Damon at this point, because his worth won't be too much due to his subpar year. The white sox leadoff spot hasn't produced, and we need a center fielder, so... Kenny Williams had better think for a change.

Say, who approved of the Siro-Wells trade?
I sure as hell didn't.

I didn't like the trade at all. Sirotka (when healthy) is better than David Wells any day of the week. About the only thing that Wells brought to the table was a veteran presence.

I would love to see Damon in a Sox uniform, but KW has already said that he won't be going after any big free agents (which leads me to believe that he knows something we don't re: the labor situation), so that won't happen.

Clayton right now is our best option at short. As much as I love Valentin's clutch hitting, there's a reason that he hasn't played every day before 2000.

As things are right now, we better hope that Clayton learns to put two halves of an offensive season together and Durham learns to get on base and Singleton learns to shorten his swing, because that's who is going to be out there when baseball starts again.

Randar68
11-21-2001, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz

I would love to see Damon in a Sox uniform, but KW has already said that he won't be going after any big free agents (which leads me to believe that he knows something we don't re: the labor situation), so that won't happen.


Well, I think we have plenty of our own guys who struggle to top the .330 OBP mark and don't make 10+ million per year. Damon would only add to that. He's not that impressive defensively in CF, either, in my opinion...

As for the Wells trade, I questioned the move only because of Wells' health. I think he definitely helped the young guys, and I don't have such a short memory that I don't remember Sirotka as the big, whiny, finger-pointing baby.

More than anything, I liked the fact that they piulled the trigger on a big trade to try to take it to the next level. I will not recant my optimism simply because it didn't work out.

ok, my .02 won!

Daver
11-21-2001, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Well, I think we have plenty of our own guys who struggle to top the .330 OBP mark and don't make 10+ million per year. Damon would only add to that. He's not that impressive defensively in CF, either, in my opinion...

As for the Wells trade, I questioned the move only because of Wells' health. I think he definitely helped the young guys, and I don't have such a short memory that I don't remember Sirotka as the big, whiny, finger-pointing baby.

More than anything, I liked the fact that they piulled the trigger on a big trade to try to take it to the next level. I will not recant my optimism simply because it didn't work out.

ok, my .02 won!

Based on that Randar would you re-sign him to an incentive laden deal for next year?
That is if there is baseball next year.

Randar68
11-21-2001, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by daver


Based on that Randar would you re-sign him to an incentive laden deal for next year?
That is if there is baseball next year.

Looking at what's out there this year, I would do it in a second...if he bought you half a year to let Rauch/Wright/Guerrier/Malone/?etc develop further, it would be worth it in and of itself...

Daver
11-21-2001, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Looking at what's out there this year, I would do it in a second...if he bought you half a year to let Rauch/Wright/Guerrier/Malone/?etc develop further, it would be worth it in and of itself...

That's what I was thinking,but more as someone to put in till Biddle is fully recovered.

LongDistanceFan
11-21-2001, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by daver


That's what I was thinking,but more as someone to put in till Biddle is fully recovered. the reports last season, wells help mark b, maybe he can do the same for the other young arms.

Randar68
11-21-2001, 09:52 PM
That's what I was thinking,but more as someone to put in till Biddle is fully recovered.

Hey, i think you and I are about the only ones here that think he will become a solid starter when healthy.

HEHEHEHE! I still think Rauch/Malone/Wright will be better, but I think those guys are top-of-the-rotation good. I think Biddle could be a great #4 or 5 pitcher on a W.S. quality team

Daver
11-21-2001, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hey, i think you and I are about the only ones here that think he will become a solid starter when healthy.

HEHEHEHE! I still think Rauch/Malone/Wright will be better, but I think those guys are top-of-the-rotation good. I think Biddle could be a great #4 or 5 pitcher on a W.S. quality team

I caught Varsity baseball for four years in H.S.,and the pitching coach we had is now employed in the A's minor league system,he told me something that I will always rate pitchers by,look for the guys that have no fear of going at the hitter,no matter what the count is and what they throw.I see a lot of nads when Rocky is on the mound.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Spiff
11-21-2001, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hey, i think you and I are about the only ones here that think he will become a solid starter when healthy.

HEHEHEHE! I still think Rauch/Malone/Wright will be better, but I think those guys are top-of-the-rotation good. I think Biddle could be a great #4 or 5 pitcher on a W.S. quality team

I also think Biddle is a good pitcher when he's healthy.

foulkesfan11
11-25-2001, 01:24 PM
:rowand

Rowand is my favorite Sox player from last year's team. He worked very hard & deserves to be a starter. I like him in Center, but if Borchard does come up, maybe they should see which one does better in Left & Center. I think Lee should be traded or made a DH. His fielding stinks. Rowand is GOD!

duke of dorwood
11-25-2001, 01:32 PM
Last year Lee did not come thru when we needed him to pick it up for Frank. If Frank was in the 260's most of the second half like Lee was, everyone would want him gone.

RedPinStripes
11-25-2001, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Last year Lee did not come thru when we needed him to pick it up for Frank. If Frank was in the 260's most of the second half like Lee was, everyone would want him gone.


It wouldn't bother me at all if Lee would be traded.

foulkesfan11
11-25-2001, 06:29 PM
:rowand

Lee has had his moments, but he is defintitely tradeable!

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by foulkesfan11
:rowand

Rowand is my favorite Sox player from last year's team. He worked very hard & deserves to be a starter. I like him in Center, but if Borchard does come up, maybe they should see which one does better in Left & Center. I think Lee should be traded or made a DH. His fielding stinks. Rowand is GOD!

Rowands overrated but I have to admit it's fun watching him run into walls.

LongDistanceFan
11-25-2001, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Rowands overrated but I have to admit it's fun watching him run into walls. i am still trying to see what others see in him........... for me, he has nothing.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
i am still trying to see what others see in him........... for me, he has nothing.

Just my opinion here but I think people see him like Valentin. Someone who busts his ass every game and plays hard all the time.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Just my opinion here but I think people see him like Valentin. Someone who busts his ass every game and plays hard all the time.

And really he got this reputation by crashing into walls, which doesn't mean he's playing his ass off it means he isn't aware enough of his surroundings to not run into things. I think we should call him Klutz.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
And really he got this reputation by crashing into walls, which doesn't mean he's playing his ass off it means he isn't aware enough of his surroundings to not run into things. I think we should call him Klutz.


You really hate him don't you Kermit?

foulkesfan11
11-25-2001, 09:23 PM
:rowand

He busts his ass all of the time and he produces!

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



You really hate him don't you Kermit?


I hate that damn goatee.

doublem23
11-25-2001, 09:31 PM
I dunno... I kind of agree with kermit.... I like Rowand's hustle and I like his heart, but I just don't think he has the skills to be a starting outfielder on a championship caliber team....

But then again, Paul O'Neill is, so all bets are out the window...

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I hate that damn goatee.

We can agree there.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I dunno... I kind of agree with kermit.... I like Rowand's hustle and I like his heart, but I just don't think he has the skills to be a starting outfielder on a championship caliber team....


I wasn't trying to say Rowand will be a star. Kermit just seems so hell bent on wanting to see Rowand fall flat on his ass so he can say "I told ya so".

Bmr31
11-25-2001, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I wasn't trying to say Rowand will be a star. Kermit just seems so hell bent on wanting to see Rowand fall flat on his ass so he can say "I told ya so".

kermie has no idea whether rowand will be a star, or a flop. He is just guessing like the rest of us. Is rowand extremely talented? no. Does that mean he wont succeed? Not always. Is Jim Edmonds extremely talented?

RedPinStripes
11-25-2001, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I wasn't trying to say Rowand will be a star. Kermit just seems so hell bent on wanting to see Rowand fall flat on his ass so he can say "I told ya so".

There's gonna be some fun around here everytime I say something good about Rowand. Good. Keeps things exciting around here.

doublem23
11-25-2001, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Is Jim Edmonds extremely talented?

On defense, yes. He's easily in the Top 5 in the MLB, and probably Top 3.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I wasn't trying to say Rowand will be a star. Kermit just seems so hell bent on wanting to see Rowand fall flat on his ass so he can say "I told ya so".

I'm not gonna deny the "I told ya so" thing isn't a part of it but DAMN do I hate that goatee.

Bmr31
11-25-2001, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


On defense, yes. He's easily in the Top 5 in the MLB, and probably Top 3.

lol he isnt in the top 100 until he plays everyday. get real.

Spiff
11-25-2001, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


On defense, yes. He's easily in the Top 5 in the MLB, and probably Top 3.

I dunno you hear players talk about how he kinda slows up on the ball to make the everyday catch look spectacular.

There's at least 5 better than him.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by ComiskeyBum
There's gonna be some fun around here everytime I say something good about Rowand. Good. Keeps things exciting around here.

Yeah you and Kermit should get along just fine. :D:

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'm not gonna deny the "I told ya so" thing isn't a part of it but DAMN do I hate that goatee.

Remember when he shaved his head? That wasn't a pretty sight.

doublem23
11-25-2001, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
lol he isnt in the top 100 until he plays everyday. get real.

Uh, he played in 150 games in 2000 and 152 in 2001...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/edmonji01.shtml

Bmr31
11-25-2001, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Uh, he played in 150 games in 2000 and 152 in 2001...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/edmonji01.shtml

oh i thought you meant rowand...

doublem23
11-25-2001, 10:41 PM
The only two off the top of my head that are obviously better than Edmonds are Ichiro (he's got a cannon) and Andruw Jones. Hmmm... Maybe Torii Hunter, too, but I am a bit biased.

:gun
What about me?

doublem23
11-25-2001, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
oh i thought you meant rowand...

Ahhh... I see...

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


kermie has no idea whether rowand will be a star, or a flop. He is just guessing like the rest of us. Is rowand extremely talented? no. Does that mean he wont succeed? Not always. Is Jim Edmonds extremely talented?

I'm not saying there is any credance to this but for a long time it was said that Edmonds was extremely talented but his attitude was too lacksidasical. When has Edmonds ever been considered not extremely talented or an overachiever?

Bmr31
11-25-2001, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I'm not saying there is any credance to this but for a long time it was said that Edmonds was extremely talented but his attitude was too lacksidasical. When has Edmonds ever been considered not extremely talented or an overachiever?


from what ive seen, edmonds has decent talent, but works hard.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
The only two off the top of my head that are obviously better than Edmonds are Ichiro (he's got a cannon) and Andruw Jones. Hmmm... Maybe Torii Hunter, too, but I am a bit biased.

:gun
What about me?

I'd say Jones, Hunter and Cameron are easily better. The next tier would be Edmonds, Beltran, Griffey and maybe a couple others.

doublem23
11-25-2001, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I'd say Jones, Hunter and Cameron are easily better. The next tier would be Edmonds, Beltran, Griffey and maybe a couple others.

I can buy that. What about Ichiro, though? You can't ignore that arm.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I can buy that. What about Ichiro, though? You can't ignore that arm.

Kermit is talking about guys who play center. Your talking about guys who are better who play anywhere in the outfield.

kermittheefrog
11-25-2001, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Kermit is talking about guys who play center. Your talking about guys who are better who play anywhere in the outfield.

Jerry hit the nail on the head. I bet Ichiro could be a very good centerfielder but at least at the moment he's not one.

doublem23
11-25-2001, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Jerry hit the nail on the head. I bet Ichiro could be a very good centerfielder but at least at the moment he's not one.

Ahhh... I was talking about outfielders in general... My bad.

Jerry_Manuel
11-25-2001, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
My bad.

That's ok were used to it :smile:

Spiff
11-25-2001, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I'd say Jones, Hunter and Cameron are easily better. The next tier would be Edmonds, Beltran, Griffey and maybe a couple others.

Carl Everett is an underrated fielder.

But if you do not agree don't bother with the barrage of insults/numbers.

LongDistanceFan
11-26-2001, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Carl Everett is an underrated fielder.

But if you do not agree don't bother with the barrage of insults/numbers. why not. when do you or anybody think they can post and not be exposed to that barrage?

kermittheefrog
11-26-2001, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
why not. when do you or anybody think they can post and not be exposed to that barrage?

Seriously LDF. Isn't it great for someone to make a post and say "If you disagree with what I have to say, don't say anything." Makes a great message board. "Damn we don't agree, let's all shut up about it."

rdivaldi
11-26-2001, 10:58 AM
I'm surprised you guys aren't more encouraged by Rowand. I don't know who had posted that he hadn't done squat in the minors, but I can't agree with that at all. He has consistently shown power and the ability to drive in runs. The knock on him was way too many strikeouts and not enough walks. He was very much improved in 2001 in showing good patience at the plate.

He has a good, compact swing with power. I don't see why he wouldn't be considered a good prospect to take over CF or LF in the future.

LongDistanceFan
11-26-2001, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Seriously LDF. Isn't it great for someone to make a post and say "If you disagree with what I have to say, don't say anything." Makes a great message board. "Damn we don't agree, let's all shut up about it." what a way with words........... how do you like that post with all w's.

FarWestChicago
11-26-2001, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
I'm surprised you guys aren't more encouraged by Rowand. I don't know who had posted that he hadn't done squat in the minors, but I can't agree with that at all. He has consistently shown power and the ability to drive in runs. The knock on him was way too many strikeouts and not enough walks. He was very much improved in 2001 in showing good patience at the plate.

He has a good, compact swing with power. I don't see why he wouldn't be considered a good prospect to take over CF or LF in the future. Welcome back RDiv. Haven't seen you in a while. :smile:

rdivaldi
11-26-2001, 12:47 PM
Thanks FWC, I lurk occaisionally but haven't too much time to discuss as of late.

I am definitely surprised by the lack of hope in Rowand. I really liked what I saw in him during the course of the season.

Of course as I write this, Aaron really hasn't torn the cover off the ball in Puerto Rico. He started off horribly but has begun to hit a little better as of late. Here are his numbers to date:

.232
.299 OBP
.391 SLG
69 AB
2 2B
3 HR
12 RBI
5 BB
10 SO

Not good, but hopefully he will continue to stay hot.

FarWestChicago
11-26-2001, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
I am definitely surprised by the lack of hope in Rowand. I really liked what I saw in him during the course of the season.Actually, there has been a very strong Dump Caballo and Start Rowand movement over the last few months. I must admit, I am not in that camp. I still think it's far too soon to give up on Caballo. As far as Rowand goes, I like the kid, but I don't know if he'll be as good as some think he will. Only time will tell how good he'll be at the major league level.

rdivaldi
11-26-2001, 01:08 PM
The thing about Carlos is that he might get caught in a numbers crunch. "If" Rowand and Borchard are able to perform at the major league level, Carlos' lack of defense will get him traded.

I agree that it's way too early to write Carlos off though. I just hope that Singleton is gone, he is a waste of time in my mind. Give someone else the at bats.

Joel Perez
11-26-2001, 01:37 PM
Carlos, although he carries a great bat, is a one-dimensional player at this time...he can improve defensively, but who's to say? He's gotta work on his footwork and for him to be a little more mobile in the outfield. Although he had more than ten stolen bases last year, his speed is average at best right now.

I think the Sox and a lot of fans see POTENTIAL in Rowand. He can flash some glove in the outfield, plus the power numbers are there, and he shows a little more throwing arm than Lee. If he can get on a hot streak, it's lights out.

Man, this thread has more shtuff than an average Valentin/Clayton "Who's at SS" thread.

For the Sox to acquire a vet pitcher, they need to have a package involving either Lee or Rowand plus a young pitcher. Too bad Javier Vasquez is "hands off" for now until the owners/players sort this mess out...whenever that will be.

Spiff
11-26-2001, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Seriously LDF. Isn't it great for someone to make a post and say "If you disagree with what I have to say, don't say anything." Makes a great message board. "Damn we don't agree, let's all shut up about it."

I was under the impression that LDF was kidding but maybe he wasn't.

And I said "Don't bother," as in "Save your breath because I really don't care about his fielding percentage on Tuesday afternoons in cities that start with 'C' so you aint gonna change my mind."

LongDistanceFan
11-26-2001, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


I was under the impression that LDF was kidding but maybe he wasn't.

And I said "Don't bother," as in "Save your breath because I really don't care about his fielding percentage on Tuesday afternoons in cities that start with 'C' so you aint gonna change my mind." in my response to you, i never meant to come strong, only wanted to say, "if you post expect to see a rebuttal".............. not with "don't bother to respond if you don't agree with me"......... ref to why you wrote it........... i had no discussion to add to that......... topic didn't interest me......... did i clarify things at least from my side? i hope so.

ref to the post of all the w's.......... i was teasing.......... with it aim at no one .

Spiff
11-26-2001, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
in my response to you, i never meant to come strong, only wanted to say, "if you post expect to see a rebuttal".............. not with "don't bother to respond if you don't agree with me"......... ref to why you wrote it........... i had no discussion to add to that......... topic didn't interest me......... did i clarify things at least from my side? i hope so.

ref to the post of all the w's.......... i was teasing.......... with it aim at no one .

No I didn't think you were coming on strong, in fact I thought you were being sarcastic til kermit said something. But yeh now I understand what you meant, that I can't really be immune to it even if I say something.

I was just trying to nip the PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPES's at the bud. (Like smoking crack makes you have outlandish baseball opinions in the first place... :smile: )

LongDistanceFan
11-26-2001, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


No I didn't think you were coming on strong, in fact I thought you were being sarcastic til kermit said something. But yeh now I understand what you meant, that I can't really be immune to it even if I say something.

I was just trying to nip the PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPES's at the bud. (Like smoking crack makes you have outlandish baseball opinions in the first place... :smile: ) why, when people who had a few refreshement, do have a tendency to know a whole lot of nothing in that state. :)

the old rival days on fri or sat night was very funny. i was guilty of a few outlandish post myself in that state, when the morning after i was embarrass....... :) but it was fun and the jokes were funny too........... no-one took it serious......

Jerry_Manuel
11-26-2001, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
And I said "Don't bother," as in "Save your breath because I really don't care about his fielding percentage on Tuesday afternoons in cities that start with 'C' so you aint gonna change my mind."


LOL!!!!!!!

kermittheefrog
11-26-2001, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


I was under the impression that LDF was kidding but maybe he wasn't.

And I said "Don't bother," as in "Save your breath because I really don't care about his fielding percentage on Tuesday afternoons in cities that start with 'C' so you aint gonna change my mind."

I hate those cracks because I have never ever tried to use some innane number like that. Just because you don't care or never heard of some stats doesn't mean they are meaningless, just means you're shortsighted.

Daver
11-26-2001, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I hate those cracks because I have never ever tried to use some innane number like that. Just because you don't care or never heard of some stats doesn't mean they are meaningless, just means you're shortsighted.

Or that you are a firm beleiver in NOT basing talent,or lack thereof,strictly on numbers.All numbers lie to a certain extent.Chuck Knoublauch puts up good numbers but has a tendency to hit Keith Olberman's mother with a throw from second to first.It affects the stats little,but it affects the player in a huge way.

Paulwny
11-26-2001, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by daver


.Chuck Knoublauch puts up good numbers but has a tendency to hit Keith Olberman's mother with a throw from second to first.

Now that's a yankmee memory I'll always cherish.

Spiff
11-26-2001, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by daver


Or that you are a firm beleiver in NOT basing talent,or lack thereof,strictly on numbers.All numbers lie to a certain extent.Chuck Knoublauch puts up good numbers but has a tendency to hit Keith Olberman's mother with a throw from second to first.It affects the stats little,but it affects the player in a huge way.

Yes, daver put it right. Numbers aren't everything.

And shortsighted is one thing I am not. In some instances I'm a huge believer in stats, but you have to believe your instincts too.

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by daver


Or that you are a firm beleiver in NOT basing talent,or lack thereof,strictly on numbers.All numbers lie to a certain extent.Chuck Knoublauch puts up good numbers but has a tendency to hit Keith Olberman's mother with a throw from second to first.It affects the stats little,but it affects the player in a huge way.

But I don't base talent or lack thereof strictly on numbers, if I was I'd be an idiot and just as shortsighted as WhiteSox00. The problem is extremes. Statheads that only believe in the numbers are throwing out useful subjective information that obviously has merit. And anti-statheads that hate the numbers and believe they hold no truths which is also obviously wrong.

Bmr31
11-27-2001, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


But I don't base talent or lack thereof strictly on numbers, if I was I'd be an idiot and just as shortsighted as WhiteSox00. The problem is extremes. Statheads that only believe in the numbers are throwing out useful subjective information that obviously has merit. And anti-statheads that hate the numbers and believe they hold no truths which is also obviously wrong.

stats are a guide, and nothing more....

kermittheefrog
11-27-2001, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


stats are a guide, and nothing more....

Stats are one kinda guide, objective analysis is another. Ignoring either one is stupid.

Keystone Combo
07-22-2002, 01:29 PM
Joe Borchard in leftfield
Aaron Rowand in centerfield
Magglio Ordonez in rightfield

That's what it should be, Borchard is a left or rightfielder not a centerfielder and the White Sox should let Rowand play centerfield.

Randar68
07-22-2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
Joe Borchard in leftfield
Aaron Rowand in centerfield
Magglio Ordonez in rightfield

That's what it should be, Borchard is a left or rightfielder not a centerfielder and the White Sox should let Rowand play centerfield.


*****! How many times must it be proven that Rowand is NOT an everyday player?

Paulwny
07-22-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

*****! How many times must it be proven that Rowand is NOT an everyday player?

The J Paul thread should be coming up soon.

Iguana775
07-22-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Randar68



*****! How many times must it be proven that Rowand is NOT an everyday player?

so what are you saying, randar?? he can't play everyday? :)

Keystone Combo
07-22-2002, 02:37 PM
How about we try once!!!!!!!!!

How many games in a row has Aaron Rowand played in his career? Come on ...... how can you say he had a chance, that's BS.

If you can stick with Carlos Lee playing the terrible leftfield he does everyday, than I believe that we could give Aaron Rowand a COMPLETE OPPORTUNITY to prove whether he can or can't play everyday. Why not do it now......... we're out of the race and we will probably have 3 rookies in the lineup next season so do it now so we don't have to have 4?

You have to admit that White Sox defense sux....... and Rowand would improve it immediately.

Randar68
07-22-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
You have to admit that White Sox defense sux....... and Rowand would improve it immediately.

I don't have to admit anything. BTW, how has he looked at the plate this year? Pretty Clayton-esque if I do say so myself....

Can the FOR please crawl back into the hole from which they came?

Keystone Combo
07-22-2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I don't have to admit anything. BTW, how has he looked at the plate this year? Pretty Clayton-esque if I do say so myself....

Can the FOR please crawl back into the hole from which they came?

Now that's a joke right??????


One of the toughest things to do in baseball is to play once or maybe twice a week. To evaluate you have to play everyday for awhile to evaluate accurately.

Now you may go back to your own hole...... lol

Iguana775
07-22-2002, 09:05 PM
i agree with Key, randar. it is hard for a player to come out and play when he has sat on the bench for a week. last year, i thought he did pretty well. i would like to see what he could do if given a chance....whether it be on the sox of some other team. but, we all have our opinion. :D:

RedPinStripes
07-22-2002, 10:22 PM
Jeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz. They had to bring up my fist thread again that half the posts were moved to the parking lot. I had a fresh start at WSI! :)

Mathew
07-23-2002, 03:44 AM
I don't buy this it's hard to hit when you don't play crap. I play on a very good team(still, and I'm not that good, I come off the bench to hit and I had better hit.) In batting practice you get your swing down, in the box you time yourself with the pitcher if you can't do that you're not a good hitter. Everyday might help some but if you don't hit .220 you plain suck. You suck and you don't play unless you play for the Sox I hit .555 in pinch hit situations and got into the starting lineup I keep it up and I'll play otherwise tough. As West(I think) once said "I'll run into the wall on every ball that's hit if they pay me the Major League minimum, I'll hustle like crazy" something sort of like that and it is %100 true!

Pardon my grammer and spelling Canadian beer is like moonshine, or so I've heard?

No-Neck
07-23-2002, 09:29 AM
I have to agree 100% with Randar68 on this one,

Rowand is not a starting outfielder for a contending club. Maybe in Tampa Bay or Detroit, but if he was in a winning organization, he'd be in the minors. The guy misjudges the outfield dimensions regularly, colliding in walls and not getting a good angle on fly balls, and this is in his HOME park.

And his hitting speaks for itself, in today's majors, your starting outfielders have to put up solid numbers. Rowand will have trouble hitting .250 over the course of a couple years, and this guy is in his prime.

Just more Chicago fans settling for mediocrity, I guess. I'll pick CLee over Rowand as a starter any given day.

Cuck the Fubs. :)

Randar68
07-23-2002, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by No-Neck
And his hitting speaks for itself, in today's majors, your starting outfielders have to put up solid numbers. Rowand will have trouble hitting .250 over the course of a couple years, and this guy is in his prime.


You have a point. In addition, if anyone on here thinks Rowands defense and just as "average" arm as CLee gets him in there before Carlos, they are only hitting the bong all too regularly.

This is a case of people wanting change and they are latching on to a guy who plays with heart and is a somewhat exciting player in the field. However, this fascination is simply a matter of people wanting something drastic to change.

Nobody in baseball thinks Aaron Rowand is an everyday OF'er for a contending team. Yet, people on this board, who continue to contend that a player who never took walks or hit over .300 in the minors, should be our everyday CF/LF'er.

Keystone Combo
07-23-2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Jeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz. They had to bring up my fist thread again that half the posts were moved to the parking lot. I had a fresh start at WSI! :)


Golllllllllyyyyyyyyy........ you're a star and didn't even know it!!!
:D:

Randar68
07-23-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo



Golllllllllyyyyyyyyy........ you're a star and didn't even know it!!!
:D:

Keep living in your fairy Cubbie world where players who aren't currently on the field are sure HOF'ers....

AUGIE OJEDA and AARON ROWAND for the HOF, 2020!

You FOC's are unreal. If you ever come back to reality, maybe you can gain a little credibility!

doublem23
07-23-2002, 02:51 PM
Crashing into walls doesn't make one a good outfielder. It makes one a moron.

Rowand will never be more than a platoon OFer at best.

Randar68
07-23-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Crashing into walls doesn't make one a good outfielder. It makes one a moron.

Rowand will never be more than a platoon OFer at best.

The voice of reason! (did I just say that??? LOL!)

We need a FOC tag!

RedPinStripes
07-23-2002, 05:35 PM
Ok. he sucks. I had no idea this thread would come back and bite me in the ass 8 months later. :)

Keystone Combo
07-23-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Keep living in your fairy Cubbie world where players who aren't currently on the field are sure HOF'ers....

AUGIE OJEDA and AARON ROWAND for the HOF, 2020!

You FOC's are unreal. If you ever come back to reality, maybe you can gain a little credibility!

You really do have a problem don't you with giving a guy a chance to play........ and it sounds like you have a hard time handling someone else's opinion without wanting to act like you're a kid yourself.

Take your Cubbie comment and eat it...... Give Rowand a chance before we decide he is good enough or not.... ok Randar68, your turn......... lol

Keystone Combo
07-23-2002, 10:18 PM
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD.......YESSSSSSSSSS

Aaron Rowand goes yard....... into White Sox bullpen for a 2 run shot tonight.

Just got to give him a chance to play........

Daver
07-23-2002, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD.......YESSSSSSSSSS

Aaron Rowand goes yard....... into White Sox bullpen for a 2 run shot tonight.

Just got to give him a chance to play........

And he will prove that he is an AAAA player.......

Maggliosfan09
07-23-2002, 11:33 PM
doesn't it seem like Aaron does well when he plays all/most of the game?

Keystone Combo
07-24-2002, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by daver


And he will prove that he is an AAAA player.......

Hey Daver......... still won't give the guy any credit?

We probably won't ever agree on this one, and by the way that still don't make you right or me wrong..... :D:

You are consistent though...... lol

Randar68
07-24-2002, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


Hey Daver......... still won't give the guy any credit?

We probably won't ever agree on this one, and by the way that still don't make you right or me wrong..... :D:

You are consistent though...... lol

He hit A HR that barely cleared the fence that was moved in before last season.

I have followed Rowand for 4 years, throughout the minors and into the bigs. He is NOT patient, he has boderline power, and doesn't hit for a very high average.

Low OBP, weak AVG, and questionable power...not to mention average speed.

Boy, sounds like an outstanding everyday major leaguer....



There is no need to give a guy a shot when he doesn't have the tools. Why don't we promote all of our AA outfielders in September, hell, they haven't been given a chance either. Your logic is flawed, and you are praying for a savior whom you know nothing about.

Keystone Combo
07-24-2002, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


He hit A HR that barely cleared the fence that was moved in before last season.

I have followed Rowand for 4 years, throughout the minors and into the bigs. He is NOT patient, he has boderline power, and doesn't hit for a very high average.

Low OBP, weak AVG, and questionable power...not to mention average speed.

Boy, sounds like an outstanding everyday major leaguer....



There is no need to give a guy a shot when he doesn't have the tools. Why don't we promote all of our AA outfielders in September, hell, they haven't been given a chance either. Your logic is flawed, and you are praying for a savior whom you know nothing about.

What gives you the impression that you are so much more intelligent than I am? Because you and I don't agree doesn't make either you or I more intelligent. These boards are open for all of us to express our opinions...... I won't challenge your intelligence, don't challenge mine. Make your point and I will make mine.... but let's try to act like Sox fans who both care about the same team, ok?

All I'm saying is we aren't going anywhere right now ....... so let the guy play and then let the pieces fall where they may.


Daver will tell you that he and I don't always agree either as most White Sox fans don't always agree..... see boards. We came to a conclusion that we can agree to disagree.

One last thing........ the distance of Rowands homerun would not even be close to qualifying as the shortest distance to hit a homerun in the majors. Besides, the boxscores don't give distances and the runs and RBIs still count. Peace.

Randar68
07-24-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
What gives you the impression that you are so much more intelligent than I am? Because you and I don't agree doesn't make either you or I more intelligent. These boards are open for all of us to express our opinions...... I won't challenge your intelligence, don't challenge mine. Make your point and I will make mine.... but let's try to act like Sox fans who both care about the same team, ok?



Look, I am tired of arguing this point. Rowand sucks. On top of that, every time one of our OF'ers struggles in the least, there are Chicken Little's everywhere calling for trades just to get Rowand PT. The fact that his abilities are unknown to MOST is the reason...

However, he does not have Major League abilities. He may be a starting OF'er on a Tampa or Colorado, but never on a contender. If I am wrong, I'll eat my shorts.

By no means is Aaron Rowand a better player than any of our current starters in the OF. The fact that he hasn't had much PT does not equate to "better find out". I remember all the people calling for Jeff Abbott for cryin' out loud!

One of the things I always thought of White Sox fans are they are one of the more informed and level-headed groups of fans. Lately around here, the FOC and FOB have made this place look like the Cubs board. I don't always look forward to coming here because the intelligence factor has been steadily dwindling over the past 3 months.

Yes, we disagree, but I've seriously had it with armchair managers and GM's around here thinking that an unproven or one-dimensional player is the next All-Star. Wake up folks. Augie Ojeda fans turn north.

Jerry_Manuel
07-24-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
By no means is Aaron Rowand a better player than any of our current starters in the OF. The fact that he hasn't had much PT does not equate to "better find out". I remember all the people calling for Jeff Abbott for cryin' out loud!

One of the things I always thought of White Sox fans are they are one of the more informed and level-headed groups of fans. Lately around here, the FOC and FOB have made this place look like the Cubs board. I don't always look forward to coming here because the intelligence factor has been steadily dwindling over the past 3 months.

Yes, we disagree, but I've seriously had it with armchair managers and GM's around here thinking that an unproven or one-dimensional player is the next All-Star. Wake up folks. Augie Ojeda fans turn north.

Bravo, Randar.

That's a perfect person to compare him to. Jeff Abbott was a guy who hit well in the minors, but never showed that in the majors when he got a chance to play.

guillen4life13
07-27-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


What gives you the impression that you are so much more intelligent than I am? Because you and I don't agree doesn't make either you or I more intelligent. These boards are open for all of us to express our opinions...... I won't challenge your intelligence, don't challenge mine. Make your point and I will make mine.... but let's try to act like Sox fans who both care about the same team, ok?

All I'm saying is we aren't going anywhere right now ....... so let the guy play and then let the pieces fall where they may.


Daver will tell you that he and I don't always agree either as most White Sox fans don't always agree..... see boards. We came to a conclusion that we can agree to disagree.

One last thing........ the distance of Rowands homerun would not even be close to qualifying as the shortest distance to hit a homerun in the majors. Besides, the boxscores don't give distances and the runs and RBIs still count. Peace.

keystone... i'm just gonna say this: watch out which waters you swim through.

if you look into the older posts on this board (the posts back from 2001)... you will see that randar and some other people (this was back when I just joined WSI) had a heated argument about evaluating minor league talent.

randar actually goes to minor league games, and has seen the talent that we have only heard about (as far as I know). he has seen rowand before he made the big league club, and he is probably the most knowledgeable person in WSI when it comes to evaluating the minor league talent of this club. i should just say that, if you didn't know that... now you do, and if you feel he is questioning your intelligence, he probably has more of a right to question anyone's intelligence on these boards (at least when it comes to the White Sox farm system).

i'm just telling you this so that you somewhat know where he's coming from also. believe me... i think many of us have lost our patience with randar... but most of the time it's because we really don't know as much as he does regarding a lot of this stuff (you can bet that randar and I have argued before... I threw a hissy fit hehe).

guillen4life13
07-28-2002, 10:32 PM
i think this thread is now a very important one, considering we have no kenny lofton patrolling cf.

Daver
07-28-2002, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
i think this thread is now a very important one, considering we have no kenny lofton patrolling cf.

Aaron Rowand is still a AAAA player,no matter how you slice it.

He is at best a bench player on a good team.

guillen4life13
07-28-2002, 10:54 PM
i am not disputing that daver... but a lot of people seem to be saying that "we're finally gonna get a long term look @ rowand in cf"

i think that some other threads are gonna turn into this one... and maybe we should just keep it in this one (btw... what's the longest WSI thread in its history?)

CLR01
07-28-2002, 11:12 PM
Baseball related i believe it is this one. Non-basebaall it would be the WTC thread.

WinningUgly!
07-28-2002, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

By no means is Aaron Rowand a better player than any of our current starters in the OF. The fact that he hasn't had much PT does not equate to "better find out". I remember all the people calling for Jeff Abbott for cryin' out loud!


It's the "back up quarterback mentality" with fans. Back-ups are always the fan favorites. They never get enough playing time to prove they can't do the job, & when they do play, they have the luxury of doing so with the built-in excuse of not playing often enough! Rowand is a very good 4th outfielder.

Daver
07-28-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


It's the "back up quarterback mentality" with fans. Back-ups are always the fan favorites. They never get enough playing time to prove they can't do the job, & when they do play, they have the luxury of doing so with the built-in excuse of not playing often enough! Rowand is a very good 4th outfielder.

He is a serviceable 4th outfeilder,but not great.

Keystone Combo
07-29-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


It's the "back up quarterback mentality" with fans. Back-ups are always the fan favorites. They never get enough playing time to prove they can't do the job, & when they do play, they have the luxury of doing so with the built-in excuse of not playing often enough! Rowand is a very good 4th outfielder.

You people may be right about Aaron Rowand (great 4th outfielder, AAAA outfielder, I seen him play in the minors etc.) and guess what people........

YOU JUST COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG....... OR IS THIS THE WRONG THREAD TO SAY THAT TOO........LOL

RANDAR....... MAYBE YOU'RE A GENIUS, AND MAYBE YOU THINK YOU ARE........ BUT EVEN GENIUSES....... CAN BE WRONG FROM TIME TO TIME. YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'RE AN INTELLENT INDIVIDUAL NOW CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG........LOL

Daver
07-29-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


You people may be right about Aaron Rowand (great 4th outfielder, AAAA outfielder, I seen him play in the minors etc.) and guess what people........

YOU JUST COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG....... OR IS THIS THE WRONG THREAD TO SAY THAT TOO........LOL

RANDAR....... MAYBE YOU'RE A GENIUS, AND MAYBE YOU THINK YOU ARE........ BUT EVEN GENIUSES....... CAN BE WRONG FROM TIME TO TIME. YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'RE AN INTELLENT INDIVIDUAL NOW CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG........LOL

Ummm,history does not lie,look at his career stats in the minors and project them into the majors and you get a serviceable 4th outfieder.

Randar68
07-29-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


You people may be right about Aaron Rowand (great 4th outfielder, AAAA outfielder, I seen him play in the minors etc.) and guess what people........

YOU JUST COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG....... OR IS THIS THE WRONG THREAD TO SAY THAT TOO........LOL

RANDAR....... MAYBE YOU'RE A GENIUS, AND MAYBE YOU THINK YOU ARE........ BUT EVEN GENIUSES....... CAN BE WRONG FROM TIME TO TIME. YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'RE AN INTELLENT INDIVIDUAL NOW CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG........LOL

I am no genius. However, I am a realistic indivual and do not partake in the Sox form of Cubbie crack. If you can't handle reality, there's no use trying to deal with it.

Rowand spent several years in the minors doing nothing to indicate he was going to be anything other than average. Here he is in the majors, again doing nothing in part-time duties, as a 26 year old.

Take it for what it's worth, but you have the bigger handful of talent evaluators on this board telling you he's nothing better than a serviceable 4th outfielder, and you keep insisting we waste our time giving him a look at CF.

You will get your wish. However, you will not like the result.

Paulwny
07-29-2002, 03:12 PM
Rowand is another John Cangelosi, plenty of hustle, not enough talent.

Keystone Combo
07-30-2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


You will get your wish. However, you will not like the result.

Tell me oh wise GENIE......... what does Aaron Rowand or any player have to do for you to think he is a MAJOR LEAGUER???

Seriously, would like to know what it is that you look for in a ballplayer.

Since I am new to the board I will forgive you for your Cubbie cracks and take it with a grin.... but can you show me a thread in the past here Randar were you predicted a super major league player from the minors? Did you project Buehrle for his success? How about Magglio? Konerko? If you have tell where it is so I can see how you called it before they hit the field in the majors...

Randar68
07-30-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
Since I am new to the board I will forgive you for your Cubbie cracks and take it with a grin.... but can you show me a thread in the past here Randar were you predicted a super major league player from the minors? Did you project Buehrle for his success? How about Magglio? Konerko? If you have tell where it is so I can see how you called it before they hit the field in the majors...

I have been with most of these posters for over 2 years, including back in the Rivals and ESPN days. Over this amount of time, yes, I did predict good things for Buehrle. Maggs was already here, and since the day he was drafted, every scouting service has raved about Konerko, so he was never a surprise. I reported on the progress/future of Garland, Wells, Wright, Biddle, etc, many of them from the time they were in A ball.

I am extremely excited to see Harris and Crede play everyday. I have followed Crede since his A-ball MVP season. I am just as excited to some day see Tim Hummel and Casey Rogowski in the lineup.

I do not waste my time with players who have no talent or who have severe deficiencies in their game. Rowand has less than average speed for a CF'er, no plate patience, and little Big League power.

However you want to cut it, I am a realist. I don't think we need to waste our time with a player that every baseball person around thinks is barely a 4th outfielder on a good club. At this point, however, we have exhausted all other options until a new CBA is reached, and you will get your wish. If you choose to ignore history, that's your perogative.

I am blunt, and straight to the point. I don't think you will find many instances of players I write off becoming Major League regulars. I don't have all the answers, but my statements are based on my knowledge of the situation and in many cases, first-hand accounts of players.

Rowand has a great attitude. One I wish many of our stars had. However, he has barely a fraction of the abilities and talent they do. I have nothing against him as a person. He's a great guy who loves Chicago. However, I'm not foolish enough to believe a no speed, no power, and no OBP guy can be an everyday player for a contender.

I can not be more straightforward about it. This is my opinion, and that of every other person around here who has followed him through his minor league career. If you chose to ignore history and people who have better information, that's your choice. Ignorance is Bliss.

hold2dibber
07-30-2002, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


Tell me oh wise GENIE......... what does Aaron Rowand or any player have to do for you to think he is a MAJOR LEAGUER???

Seriously, would like to know what it is that you look for in a ballplayer.

Since I am new to the board I will forgive you for your Cubbie cracks and take it with a grin.... but can you show me a thread in the past here Randar were you predicted a super major league player from the minors? Did you project Buehrle for his success? How about Magglio? Konerko? If you have tell where it is so I can see how you called it before they hit the field in the majors...

I have a bit more faith in Rowand than do Randar or Daver, but I don't think he's a starter. I wonder, Keystone, what makes you think Rowand will be a good everyday outfielder at the MLB level? Are you basing your opinion just on his play last season? On his minor league stats? On something else?