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infohawk
06-22-2005, 11:47 AM
I apologize if this has already been posted somewhere, but it appears that the Sox are at least moderately interested in possibly trading for Ted Lilly. Here's the link:

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2005/06/22/1099252-sun.html

Lilly certainly wouldn't be very expensive, and could provide some additional pitching depth. I guess it depends on who the Sox would have to give up.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2005, 11:51 AM
I apologize if this has already been posted somewhere, but it appears that the Sox are at least moderately interested in possibly trading for Ted Lilly. Here's the link:

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2005/06/22/1099252-sun.html

Lilly certainly wouldn't be very expensive, and could provide some additional pitching depth. I guess it depends on who the Sox would have to give up.And Lilly is better than which of the Sox current starters?:?:

aniceItch
06-22-2005, 11:53 AM
Wouldnt it be sweet if we could get Shoeneweis back in that deal?

dcb33
06-22-2005, 11:59 AM
Wouldnt it be sweet if we could get Shoeneweis back in that deal?

:tealpolice:
"That color isn't even close to being teal. See you in court!"

Unregistered
06-22-2005, 12:02 PM
And Lilly is better than which of the Sox current starters?:?:
Well, I guess he's better than the guy who is on the DL right now (by default)... and likely better than his replacement...

kittle42
06-22-2005, 12:03 PM
I am interested in Ted Lilly....staying in Toronto.

SoxxoS
06-22-2005, 12:13 PM
Better insurance policy than BMAC going down the stretch if El Duque or one of the starters gets hurt. Im for it.

The guy was an all-star last year...

mjharrison72
06-22-2005, 12:15 PM
Better insurance policy than BMAC going down the stretch if El Duque or one of the starters gets hurt. Im for it.

The guy was an all-star last year...
So was Esteban Loaiza.

BeviBall!
06-22-2005, 12:15 PM
There must be better options out there. He once looked like the second coming of Jimmy Key, but, as it turns out, he's just Ted Lilly.

sircaffey1
06-22-2005, 12:15 PM
I would be MUCH more interested in Miguel Batista. Adding him to the pen would be great. He's having a very solid year as the closer for them, and has started in the past. He could very well be another Hermanson type, but actually act like that in long relief, 6/7 inning, spot start, etc. He could be very valuable to our team. I hope we were there scouting him. Lilly wouldn't be bad choice if El Duque can't get healthy, but Batista would be a much better addition at this time, in my opinion...

Kogs35
06-22-2005, 12:16 PM
Better insurance policy than BMAC going down the stretch if El Duque or one of the starters gets hurt. Im for it.

The guy was an all-star last year...

former yankee

Madvora
06-22-2005, 12:28 PM
Going by his numbers year by year, I don't see anything impressive. Plus, this year is his worst so far.
I don't really know too much about this guy, but his numbers don't t look like we should be all out to get this guy. On the other hand, if the Duke is out for a long stretch, I think I would rather have a major leaguer in there that McCarthy. I would like another option though.

danjames
06-22-2005, 12:35 PM
Isn't Robert Person somewhere in AAA right now? How is he doing?

Maybe he could fit the bill.

maurice
06-22-2005, 12:41 PM
Isn't Robert Person somewhere in AAA right now?

Not any more. He sucked his way straight out of Charlotte, and that's quite an accomplishment in suckiness.

SOXSINCE'70
06-22-2005, 12:45 PM
I am interested in Ted Lilly....staying in Toronto.

So am I.He doesn't do too much for me.His ERA is wayyyyyy
too high for my liking.Why would you want Lilly??:?: :?:

I think they should trade a bag of old baseballs and Brandon
McCarthy for Roger Clemens and Roy Oswalt. :roflmao: :roflmao:

JermaineDye05
06-22-2005, 01:04 PM
I was just on prosports daily and they were talking about 4 teams looking very closely at Ted Lilly and possibly trading for him the teams included the Red Sox, Braves, Twinkies, and White Sox, also they had players the Sox could possibly trade for before july 31 names included, Chavez once again, Jose Mesa, Vinny Castilla, and Brad Lidge

White Sox Josh
06-22-2005, 01:05 PM
hey dude, What's the Score?

PAPChiSox729
06-22-2005, 01:06 PM
I was just on prosports daily and they were talking about 4 teams looking very closely at Ted Lilly and possibly trading for him the teams included the Red Sox, Braves, Twinkies, and White Sox, also they had players the Sox could possibly trade for before july 31 names included, Chavez once again, Jose Mesa, Vinny Castilla, and Brad Lidge

I was just thinking about trading for Ted Lilly. I doesn't seem like too bad of an idea. I'm not taking any of these ideas seriously, though. It is all speculation at this point.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2005, 01:07 PM
I was just on prosports daily and they were talking about 4 teams looking very closely at Ted Lilly and possibly trading for him the teams included the Red Sox, Braves, Twinkies, and White Sox, also they had players the Sox could possibly trade for before july 31 names included, Chavez once again, Jose Mesa, Vinny Castilla, and Brad LidgeRead the back page of the Trib sports section. All old stuff, and mostly just speculation. They have about as much credibility as what you read in a message board. (Except here, where we rely on such impeccable sources as overheard cell phone conversations in airports.)

TheOldRoman
06-22-2005, 01:11 PM
I was just on prosports daily and they were talking about 4 teams looking very closely at Ted Lilly and possibly trading for him the teams included the Red Sox, Braves, Twinkies, and White Sox, also they had players the Sox could possibly trade for before july 31 names included, Chavez once again, Jose Mesa, Vinny Castilla, and Brad Lidge
First of all, Mesa blows. The Nationals are contenders, and Castilla is a big part of that. He isn't going anywhere. Chavez has arm problems, and may need reconstructive surgery which would put him out a year. Brad Lidge is a stud. He has several years of arbitration left, so if we got him would would have to pay a king's ransom.

sircaffey1
06-22-2005, 01:13 PM
Mmmmm, Lidge :gulp:

Baby Fisk
06-22-2005, 01:17 PM
Just say no to Lilly.

Any player we get in a trade will have to be outstanding and not a filler, because the trading away of any current player (barring perhaps Vizcaino) will cause explosive outrage here because things have been going so well. I mean seriously, the Garcia-Davis-Olivo-Reed trade still reverberates around here. Imagine if we gave up a McCarthy for a Lilly. :o:

PAPChiSox729
06-22-2005, 01:31 PM
Imagine if we gave up a McCarthy for a Lilly. :o:

Well it's obvious that Brandon won't ever pitch at the major league level. Lilly would seem like an OK pickup if he came at the right price. But if we are shopping for another front-line starter, I would go for a better pitcher than Lilly. The problem is that we don't know if El Duque will be playing this DL game all season, so looking at some cheaper backups really doesn't seem like too bad of an idea to me.

beckett21
06-22-2005, 02:45 PM
I realize this is all purely speculative, but if El Duque is down for the count I don't think Lilly would be a bad #5. He has major league stuff and he has some experience. Going to a winning club and getting the tutelege of Don Cooper could do wonders for the guy. He has shown recent signs of putting himself back together in his last couple starts.

There are worse options out there than Lilly IMHO. There are better ones too, but he would not be the worst option.

The Dude
06-22-2005, 05:16 PM
I realize this is all purely speculative, but if El Duque is down for the count I don't think Lilly would be a bad #5. He has major league stuff and he has some experience. Going to a winning club and getting the tutelege of Don Cooper could do wonders for the guy. He has shown recent signs of putting himself back together in his last couple starts.

There are worse options out there than Lilly IMHO. There are better ones too, but he would not be the worst option.

I agree that Lilly would be great as a #5 pitcher/ insurance policy for us. I don't think KW wants to ruin this magical season with another minor league 5th starter go-round. I believe hes learned from his mistakes. I think Lilly could be had for a couple AA players and possible a mid range AAA player.

beck72
06-22-2005, 06:29 PM
Just say no to Lilly.

Any player we get in a trade will have to be outstanding and not a filler, because the trading away of any current player (barring perhaps Vizcaino) will cause explosive outrage here because things have been going so well. I mean seriously, the Garcia-Davis-Olivo-Reed trade still reverberates around here. Imagine if we gave up a McCarthy for a Lilly. :o:

A Lilly trade would have him take over the 5th starters spot [until El Duque was/ if he's healthy, and then go to the bullpen], and put BMac back in AAA until 2006. No top talent would be needed to acquire Lilly, who'll be a FA in 2006.

FredManrique
06-22-2005, 06:43 PM
All indications are that Lilly is kind of a head case. I think he'd moan about having an uncertain role, and probably clash with AJ. I'd pass on Lilly. Plus it kind of reminds of getting Tim Belcher in 1993, who wound up contributing nothing.

I'd rather go for a swing man type, who could start or relieve. But there's not that many out there...

iamkoza
06-22-2005, 06:47 PM
How is a guy who is grossly inconsistent going to help the team? Not a fan of this idea

SoxFan76
06-22-2005, 07:55 PM
I'd kinda like that. A proven starter, proven to be mediocre, but still proven, to be a long reliever. I'm talking 3-4 inning long reliever. Not 1-2 like Viz and Shingo-san. The only comparison I can think of is John Halama in BOS. When their rotation is healthy, Halama isn't in the rotation, he is a long reliever. I don't know either of Halama or Lilly's stats, but I hope you all get the picture. I'd like 1 more starter to fill the long relief role.

MeanFish
06-22-2005, 08:13 PM
I'd kinda like that. A proven starter, proven to be mediocre, but still proven, to be a long reliever. I'm talking 3-4 inning long reliever. Not 1-2 like Viz and Shingo-san. The only comparison I can think of is John Halama in BOS. When their rotation is healthy, Halama isn't in the rotation, he is a long reliever. I don't know either of Halama or Lilly's stats, but I hope you all get the picture. I'd like 1 more starter to fill the long relief role.

Some things to consider:

1.) Neal Cotts has serious swingman potential.
2.) If Shingo returns to form, Hermanson can fill the gap. That's half of why we got him.
3.) Brandon McCarthy, so far, has kept us in two out of three games. He's looked pretty good against major league batters but seems to have trouble closing the door. He's better than the rotating door we had at 5th starter last year by a lot.

I'm actually for giving Brandon McCarthy time to learn at the major league level. He has the stuff and the control to handle MLB hitters, but seems to lack something in his approach. Sorta like Jon Garland pre-2005. As long as our other four starters are doing this well, there's absolutely no reason not to use him. Sure, it might make the numbers look a little worse, but I think the team will be better off in the end for it.

beckett21
06-22-2005, 08:37 PM
All indications are that Lilly is kind of a head case. I think he'd moan about having an uncertain role, and probably clash with AJ. I'd pass on Lilly. Plus it kind of reminds of getting Tim Belcher in 1993, who wound up contributing nothing.

I'd rather go for a swing man type, who could start or relieve. But there's not that many out there...

I'd be curious to know what you base that statement on. Brett Tomko, is that you?

I don't know Ted Lilly, but he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would shy away from a pennant race, unlike a certain 1B teammate of his in Toronto last year did. Again I could be wrong--I don't know him and don't follow him too closely.

If we can count on Hernandez, great. That is Plan A. I think Plan B needs to involve someone who can pitch every 5th day and give us a chance to win between July and September. None of this 5th starter merry-go-round crap. If we can get Roger Clemens, great. That is not going to happen.

As for a swing man, not a bad idea but who is available? Not that it means anything at all, but the fact that Boston, Atlanta and Minnesota are allegedly looking at Lilly as well tells me that someone sees something in him.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Some things to consider:

1.) Neal Cotts has serious swingman potential.
2.) If Shingo returns to form, Hermanson can fill the gap. That's half of why we got him.
3.) Brandon McCarthy, so far, has kept us in two out of three games. He's looked pretty good against major league batters but seems to have trouble closing the door. He's better than the rotating door we had at 5th starter last year by a lot.

I'm actually for giving Brandon McCarthy time to learn at the major league level. He has the stuff and the control to handle MLB hitters, but seems to lack something in his approach. Sorta like Jon Garland pre-2005. As long as our other four starters are doing this well, there's absolutely no reason not to use him. Sure, it might make the numbers look a little worse, but I think the team will be better off in the end for it.I agree. As shaky as McCarthy has looked, he still looks to me like he can get the job done with some minor tweaking. I heard Pierzynski on the post-game show on Monday night saying McCarthy was struggling with the things most young pitchers struggle with. He throws two great pitches, gets ahead 0-2, then tries to get too fine, and the next thing you know he's 3-2 and winds up walking the guy or serving one up. (Remind you of anyone?) And he was pitching slower than Kip Wells, which also indicates a lack of confidence. He just needs to learn to trust his stuff. I would not mind seeing McCarthy get a few more chances this season.

beckett21
06-22-2005, 08:49 PM
Some things to consider:

1.) Neal Cotts has serious swingman potential.
2.) If Shingo returns to form, Hermanson can fill the gap. That's half of why we got him.
3.) Brandon McCarthy, so far, has kept us in two out of three games. He's looked pretty good against major league batters but seems to have trouble closing the door. He's better than the rotating door we had at 5th starter last year by a lot.

I'm actually for giving Brandon McCarthy time to learn at the major league level. He has the stuff and the control to handle MLB hitters, but seems to lack something in his approach. Sorta like Jon Garland pre-2005. As long as our other four starters are doing this well, there's absolutely no reason not to use him. Sure, it might make the numbers look a little worse, but I think the team will be better off in the end for it.

1) Cotts has been trememdous so far. Not sure I would be comfortable with taking him out of his current role.

2) Ditto for Hermanson. He is the closer and should remain so.

3) McCarthy is not a bad option if nothing else is available, but I'd hate to see the kid go out and get his brains beaten in every 5 days and have his confidence shattered. He seems pretty tough mentally and there is no reason to expect him to get battered around, but it is a lot of pressure to put on the kid all at once IMO. I am far from a talent evaluator, but seems to me that he is just not quite ready.

I understand your point, but a shot at the World Series does not come around every year. Have to grab it when you can get it. I don't care about next year....let's get this done NOW. :smile:

Hopefully Hernandez is OK, but there is already enough concern that there has to be a contingency plan in place. KW's whole premise this offseason was based on having 5 quality, experienced Major League starters. I can't imagine that he will not address this with a trade of some sort.

Banix12
06-23-2005, 12:18 AM
Not really impressed with Ted Lilly, he'd be a decent fifth starter if El Duque is out for a long period of time but when healthy El Duque is better than Lilly. He's kinda got the same knock on him Garland had before this year, never won more than 12 games a season.

If he's still around come trading deadline and El Duque hasn't returned and we haven't seen any progress out of McCarthy then sure. I just don't see much reason to jump the gun right now after the kid has only made three major league starts.

The only starter out there who seems like he should be available that I would like to see if they need a fifth starter would be Jaime Moyer. An experienced Vet. He's been having a good season this year with the exception of 4 bad starts in late april - early may. He has the power to veto any trade so not exactly on the market, but he would be my choice.

I like the idea of Miguel Batista as well, he can close games, start if you need him, a decent swingman/long releiver and he has playoff experience.

I find it bizzare to suggest two ex-cubs but they seem like pretty good choices

downstairs
06-23-2005, 11:24 AM
Score is reporting that the Sox are talking to the Jays about Ted Lilly...

5-7
6.08 ERA
57 SO
31 BB


Unless they're looking to pick him up to be a batboy.... I don't know if he helps us? Can't McCarthy put up numbers like that?!?

chitownhawkfan
06-23-2005, 11:33 AM
Although Ted Lilly isnt going to win a Cy Young I would rather see him in the fifth spot than a rotating group of minor leaguers. I do like the idea of Jamie Moyer, what would it take to get him?


:andy

twinsuck1
06-23-2005, 12:58 PM
The Score has reported that the White Sox have scouts down In Toronto checking out pitcher Ted Lilly.. What are your thoughts on this?

dcb33
06-23-2005, 01:02 PM
What are your thoughts on this?

Hey, dude, What's the Score?


Ted Lilly? Ummmm, no. He's not the type of guy that would put the Sox over the top in terms of ability to win it all.

JB98
06-23-2005, 01:08 PM
The Score has reported that the White Sox have scouts down In Toronto checking out pitcher Ted Lilly.. What are your thoughts on this?

If the price is right, I'd say pull the trigger. We're talking about an experienced left-handed pitcher who can work in long relief or fill the fifth spot in the rotation if El Duque continues to have injury woes. McCarthy is not ready to pitch in the big leagues. His spring training performance was fools gold, and it's apparent now that we need an insurance policy for the rotation.

Unlike past years, we're not in search of a top-of-the-rotation starter. With the emergence of Garland, I feel we can match anybody with the trio of Buerhle-Garland-Garcia. However, it would be nice to add some depth. You can never have enough pitching.

balke
06-23-2005, 01:11 PM
I don't see what's wrong with Ted Lilly. I like El Duque for the playoffs, but if he's going to be unable to play for a while, Lilly is only 29 and has put up decent numbers in the past 3 years. If the sox are legitimately worried about whether El Duque is going to be able to play all season, it wouldn't be a bad move IMO. Lilly is no ace, but as our 4th or 5th best pitcher he wouldn't be bad at all.

As far as helping us win the World Series, he's no ace... but he wouldn't cost us Mccarthy or anything either. The Sox could get a decent pitcher like Lilly while giving up very little in return. This is a move that could ensure that the sox don't have 5th starter woes for the second half of the season.

TDog
06-23-2005, 01:11 PM
Someday one of these media rumors will turn out to be true, if only coincidentally.


The law of averages, you know.

JB98
06-23-2005, 01:11 PM
Hey, dude, What's the Score?


Ted Lilly? Ummmm, no. He's not the type of guy that would put the Sox over the top in terms of ability to win it all.

We already have the pitchers to put us over the top in terms of ability to win it all. Their names are Buehrle, Garland and Garcia. What we need is some depth, somebody to eat innings in the absence of El Duque. McCarthy can't be relied upon to do the job.

JB98
06-23-2005, 01:14 PM
Score is reporting that the Sox are talking to the Jays about Ted Lilly...

5-7
6.08 ERA
57 SO
31 BB


Unless they're looking to pick him up to be a batboy.... I don't know if he helps us? Can't McCarthy put up numbers like that?!?

From what I've seen, no. McCarthy couldn't beat the Royals.

balke
06-23-2005, 01:17 PM
In about 200 innings last season, his ERA was 4.06 in the AL. If anything, his current 6.-- ERA helps the sox buy low.

Unregistered
06-23-2005, 01:19 PM
From what I've seen, no. McCarthy couldn't beat the Royals.Yeah, McCarthy hasn't gotten ONE win. EVER.

Lily is 5-7. Right now, that seems light years ahead of BMac.

twinsuck1
06-23-2005, 01:19 PM
Is this the best we can do? TED LILLY????????? Does this guy help us to win a world series? (assuming we get that far of course). Who else Is out there (pitchers) that we can realistically pick up before the trading deadline that you think can put us over the top?

Unregistered
06-23-2005, 01:26 PM
Is this the best we can do? TED LILLY????????? Does this guy help us to win a world series? (assuming we get that far of course). Who else Is out there (pitchers) that we can realistically pick up before the trading deadline that you think can put us over the top?How many times would your #5 pitcher pitch in the World Series?

PAPChiSox729
06-23-2005, 01:41 PM
Is this the best we can do? TED LILLY????????? Does this guy help us to win a world series? (assuming we get that far of course). Who else Is out there (pitchers) that we can realistically pick up before the trading deadline that you think can put us over the top?

I really don't think that KW is shopping for another starter that can put us over the top. He has done some unexpected things in the past, but I really don't think that a trade for a front-of-the-rotation starter is in the works. The weakness with our rotation is filling that #5 when El Duque is down. So we aren't exactly looking for an ace, just a guy who can pitch successfully at this level and will can relatively cheap. Ted Lilly seems like an OK option to me.

balke
06-23-2005, 02:00 PM
Putting a front runner to this rotation is almost impossible. But if Clemens or Pedro wanna give it a shot, by all means.

beckett21
06-23-2005, 02:02 PM
How many times would your #5 pitcher pitch in the World Series?

Exactly.

We just need someone to consistently go 6 innings a start through September.

Ol' No. 2
06-23-2005, 02:02 PM
Hernandez' status is uncertain, but there does not appear to be anything structurally wrong - it's just muscle soreness. Those of us with a few more tree rings can empathize. He's had 11 starts up till now. If he starts 12 more, that leaves no more than 4-5 starts to be filled up by another pitcher. Even with McCarthy pitching, at worst, I'd expect the Sox to win 2-3 of those 4-5 starts. What's the net gain if they get Lilly instead? Remember, McCarthy pitched well enough to win in Wiggley Field. And he pitched pretty decently on Monday for the first few innings. I think McCarthy is going to be fine. I'd certainly like to see him pitch a few more times before concluding he can't cut it this year in a fill-in role.

Of course, if Hernandez is out for the year, the situation is completely different, but I see no reason to conclude that.

beckett21
06-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Hernandez' status is uncertain, but there does not appear to be anything structurally wrong - it's just muscle soreness. Those of us with a few more tree rings can empathize. He's had 11 starts up till now. If he starts 12 more, that leaves no more than 4-5 starts to be filled up by another pitcher. Even with McCarthy pitching, at worst, I'd expect the Sox to win 2-3 of those 4-5 starts. What's the net gain if they get Lilly instead? Remember, McCarthy pitched well enough to win in Wiggley Field. And he pitched pretty decently on Monday for the first few innings. I think McCarthy is going to be fine. I'd certainly like to see him pitch a few more times before concluding he can't cut it this year in a fill-in role.

Of course, if Hernandez is out for the year, the situation is completely different, but I see no reason to conclude that.

I think that's the point. It's called insurance.

He wouldn't be replacing Buehrle, Garland, Garcia or Contreras. That much is obvious.

JohnBasedowYoda
06-23-2005, 02:07 PM
just heard on the score that the sox got ted lilly? anyone else hear this? news via the toronto paper

Ol' No. 2
06-23-2005, 02:08 PM
I think that's the point. It's called insurance.

He wouldn't be replacing Buehrle, Garland, Garcia or Contreras. That much is obvious.But what are they going to do with him when Hernandez comes off the DL? If he goes to the bullpen, then he's going to go off the starter schedule and he soon will not be able to spot start anyway. If Hernandez goes to the pen he's not going to be ready to start post season games. I just don't see how this is going to work.

cheeses_h_rice
06-23-2005, 02:09 PM
Already being discussed in one of the other forums...where trade speculation type threads go. He hasn't been signed, btw, just a report that the White Sox are scouting him.

JohnBasedowYoda
06-23-2005, 02:11 PM
Already being discussed in one of the other forums...where trade speculation type threads go. He hasn't been signed, btw, just a report that the White Sox are scouting him.

my bad

Tekijawa
06-23-2005, 02:13 PM
Todd Ritchie part II! If this team is going to trade it better be for an IMPACT player, Ted Lilly is about 14 notches below this status... Trade for someone big or Don't trade at all... It's not worth risking the team Chemistry over a player of Ted Lilly Caliber!

beckett21
06-23-2005, 02:14 PM
But what are they going to do with him when Hernandez comes off the DL? If he goes to the bullpen, then he's going to go off the starter schedule and he soon will not be able to spot start anyway. If Hernandez goes to the pen he's not going to be ready to start post season games. I just don't see how this is going to work.

From KW's tone El Duque is far from guaranteed keeping his rotation spot.

In a perfect world, El Duque is the guy. But the stakes are as high as they have ever been this year. I think the idea is that if El Duque is going to be on the DL every other week, then he is out of the starting mix. We need a RELIABLE arm that will be ready to roll every 5th day for the duration of the regular season to save wear and tear on the bullpen and the other starters.

BMac, unfortunately, does not seem to be the answer for a long-term stopgap. KW wants a proven veteran. Some may dispute Lilly's qualifications as such, but he does have a bit of experience and could fill the role nicely IMO. If the team wasn't a serious WS contender, fine. But a rookie is not going to cut it this year unless BMac steps it up quickly.

I'd obviously settle for Jason Schmidt or Roger Clemens, but that is not going to happen. Lilly to me fits the bill perfectly: young, affordable, expendable.

JRIG
06-23-2005, 02:17 PM
Lilly had major delivery issues earlier in the year, which is why he completely sucked for a while. But he's worked them out and has been much much better over the past 5 starts or so.

There are far worse options if we go this route. Say, like Tom Glaine, who is so done wyou can see the fork in his back and would (in my opinion) get his brains beat in here in the AL.

beckett21
06-23-2005, 02:17 PM
Todd Ritchie part II! If this team is going to trade it better be for an IMPACT player, Ted Lilly is about 14 notches below this status... Trade for someone big or Don't trade at all... It's not worth risking the team Chemistry over a player of Ted Lilly Caliber!

The difference here is that Lilly is cheap, and he would be asked to be the 5th starter, not the "ace" or a front-end of the rotation guy.

We're not getting Clemens, people.

Lilly and Redman would be my two top choices from the names that seem to be bandied about.

I guess I am becoming the unofficial spokesman for the FOTL...:redneck

balke
06-23-2005, 02:32 PM
Lilly had a 4.06 ERA 197 IP and like 180 K's last season in the AL East. Aren't those the type of numbers Garcia had last season? If he's back to last year's form, he'd be a great addition and fill in for the Sox. I like a healthy El Duque more, if there is a healthy El Duque to be had. But Lilly is 29, and has shown good stuff that past 3 seasons. Not great stuff perhaps, but good. The only thing that puts me off is that this season I am struggling to find a game he's gone longer than 5 IP. His ERA is so bad because he's had about 3 games where he didn't make it out of the 1st inning.

cheeses_h_rice
06-23-2005, 02:42 PM
If the Sox are scouting him and showing interest, I'm going to assume that they see something that the stats don't reveal.

I assume he's had some postseason experience, since he was on the Yanks -- anyone know for sure?

LauraJ14
06-23-2005, 03:09 PM
If the Sox are scouting him and showing interest, I'm going to assume that they see something that the stats don't reveal.

I assume he's had some postseason experience, since he was on the Yanks -- anyone know for sure?


He pitched for the A's in the 2003 playoffs, 9 innings pitched and 0.00 ERA

beckett21
06-23-2005, 03:14 PM
He pitched for the A's in the 2003 playoffs, 9 innings pitched and 0.00 ERA

Yep.

Went 7 innings in a Game 3 ND against the BoSox that year.

Lilly's Playoff Stats (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_postseason.jsp?playerID=1504 04)

Somebody has too much time on their hands this afternoon...:redface:

DickAllen72
06-23-2005, 05:15 PM
He pitched for the A's in the 2003 playoffs, 9 innings pitched and 0.00 ERA

Bring him here! You can never have enough "Mr. Zeros" on your staff! :smile:

Irishsox1
06-23-2005, 05:29 PM
I saw that Ted Lilly was mentioned as someone the Sox were interested in. He doesn't really sound too interesting, but he could be used out of the pen and he is a lefty. But my dream pitcher this year for the Sox to pick up would be....Roger Clemens. I doubt he would agree to be traded to the Sox and leave Texas, but the thought of having that guy for the stretch run...WOW!

JermaineDye05
06-23-2005, 05:36 PM
it'd be gr8 to gete clemens but the chances of getting him are remote, but there have been talks of the sox interested in a diff astros pitcher, that being brad lidge

batmanZoSo
06-23-2005, 05:44 PM
Ted Lilly isn't going to bring us to the promised land. I'm not against minor moves, in fact I'm all for getting another great reliever to take the load off Cliff and Damaso in bridging the gap to Hermanson. But this is the year, we should make a big move (Oswalt, Clemens, Garcia '04) and go for the throat if it's at all possible.

soxjim
06-23-2005, 05:45 PM
it'd be gr8 to gete clemens but the chances of getting him are remote, but there have been talks of the sox interested in a diff astros pitcher, that being brad lidge

I herd the Liily one this morning on the score. Lidge would be good in the pen he has 17 saves. A starter would be nice in case El Duque's injury remains a concern some one like Roy Oswalt or Jason Scmidt.

balke
06-23-2005, 05:50 PM
There's already a thread about LIlly, and he's not being acquired to take over the pitching staff or go into the bullpen. He'd only be coming here if El Duque is going to be out for too long, and really he'd be a great pickup if he's anything close to what he was last season. He'd be a solid starter, who can K a lot of batters, and keep his ERA at about 4.

twinsuck1
06-23-2005, 05:51 PM
Todd Ritchie part II! If this team is going to trade it better be for an IMPACT player, Ted Lilly is about 14 notches below this status... Trade for someone big or Don't trade at all... It's not worth risking the team Chemistry over a player of Ted Lilly Caliber!

AMEN!:D:

balke
06-23-2005, 06:05 PM
I hope you people realize an "Impact guy" would cost "impact prospects" and "impact money" and possibly "Impact starters" or "impact bench players". THis team is really well balanced. If the Blue Jays are wanting to dump Lilly, I'm all for nabbing him cheap.

twinsuck1
06-23-2005, 06:30 PM
I hope you people realize an "Impact guy" would cost "impact prospects" and "impact money" and possibly "Impact starters" or "impact bench players". THis team is really well balanced. If the Blue Jays are wanting to dump Lilly, I'm all for nabbing him cheap.

I suppose winning the World Series Is not worth all those "Impact Losses":?:
Look I am as big of SOX fan as the next guy, but do you honestly beleive this team can stand pat and win It all? My personal feeling Is maybe, but I think we are 1 stud starter and 1 solid bullpen guy away from me being forsure.... I think we have a REAL chance this year and I would hate to not to take advantage of this situation because we are scared of letting some players go or forking out some $$$. LETS WIN NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ol' No. 2
06-23-2005, 06:44 PM
I suppose winning the World Series Is not worth all those "Impact Losses":?:
Look I am as big of SOX fan as the next guy, but do you honestly beleive this team can stand pat and win It all? My personal feeling Is maybe, but I think we are 1 stud starter and 1 solid bullpen guy away from me being forsure.... I think we have a REAL chance this year and I would hate to not to take advantage of this situation because we are scared of letting some players go or forking out some $$$. LETS WIN NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Sorry, but all this talk about being willing to trade all the best prospects away because we want to win now is silly. There is no player or group of players who would guarantee a WS victory. There is no "forsure". At best they would slightly improve their chances. Would you think it was worth it to trade away the farm if the Sox DIDN'T win the WS? Because the fact of the matter is that no matter how stacked you think the team is, their chances of winning a WS are much less than 50-50. It hasn't worked for the Yankees for the last few years, and the Sox aren't going to go nearly as far in adding impact players.

I'm all for adding the right impact player, but I'm not willing to give away the entire future to do it.

beckett21
06-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Sorry, but all this talk about being willing to trade all the best prospects away because we want to win now is silly. There is no player or group of players who would guarantee a WS victory. There is no "forsure". At best they would slightly improve their chances. Would you think it was worth it to trade away the farm if the Sox DIDN'T win the WS? Because the fact of the matter is that no matter how stacked you think the team is, their chances of winning a WS are much less than 50-50. It hasn't worked for the Yankees for the last few years, and the Sox aren't going to go nearly as far in adding impact players.

I'm all for adding the right impact player, but I'm not willing to give away the entire future to do it.

You just inadvertently made the argument for Ted Lilly. :D:

I knew you'd come around. :cool:

Ol' No. 2
06-23-2005, 07:04 PM
You just inadvertently made the argument for Ted Lilly. :D:

I knew you'd come around. :cool:No, I said I'm in favor of adding an impact player. And it will cost one or more good prospects. Fine. But there are a few untouchables that I would not trade away for anyone.

My problem with Lilly is that once Hernandez comes off the DL, Lilly becomes a fifth wheel. Does he go to the pen? How will he take to that and what do they do if it doesn't work out? Lots of question marks. I could live with Vizcaino + a low prospect for Lilly. I just don't think it's really the move that's going to make a difference. If Hernandez can start 12 more games, and if they can skip over his spot in the rotation a few times when they have off-days, another starter wouldn't be needed more than 3-4 times. I just don't think it's worth getting Lilly for those few games.

I'd rather go after a solid reliever and live with McCarthy for the few starts he's going to be necessary. Get someone like Eddie Guardado. He'd cost more in trade, but I think could still be gotten without trading any of the "untouchables".

mccoydp
06-23-2005, 07:12 PM
Bring him here! You can never have enough "Mr. Zeros" on your staff! :smile:

*GONG*

beckett21
06-23-2005, 07:15 PM
No, I said I'm in favor of adding an impact player. And it will cost one or more good prospects. Fine. But there are a few untouchables that I would not trade away for anyone.

My problem with Lilly is that once Hernandez comes off the DL, Lilly becomes a fifth wheel. Does he go to the pen? How will he take to that and what do they do if it doesn't work out? Lots of question marks. I could live with Vizcaino + a low prospect for Lilly. I just don't think it's really the move that's going to make a difference. If Hernandez can start 12 more games, and if they can skip over his spot in the rotation a few times when they have off-days, another starter wouldn't be needed more than 3-4 times. I just don't think it's worth getting Lilly for those few games.

I'd rather go after a solid reliever and live with McCarthy for the few starts he's going to be necessary. Get someone like Eddie Guardado. He'd cost more in trade, but I think could still be gotten without trading any of the "untouchables".

That's the gamble.

My fear is that El Duque's situation is worse than he is letting on. Hopefully it's not.

Ol' No. 2
06-23-2005, 07:19 PM
That's the gamble.

My fear is that El Duque's situation is worse than he is letting on. Hopefully it's not.I agree. That's what we don't know. Presumably, KW has a better handle on the situation. If, indeed, Herndandez' situation is worse that what we've heard, then a guy like Lilly makes perfect sense. It could be that KW knows more than he's saying because if everyone knew the Sox needed another starter they'd drive a much harder bargain.

twinsuck1
06-23-2005, 07:32 PM
Sorry, but all this talk about being willing to trade all the best prospects away because we want to win now is silly. There is no player or group of players who would guarantee a WS victory. There is no "forsure". At best they would slightly improve their chances. Would you think it was worth it to trade away the farm if the Sox DIDN'T win the WS? Because the fact of the matter is that no matter how stacked you think the team is, their chances of winning a WS are much less than 50-50. It hasn't worked for the Yankees for the last few years, and the Sox aren't going to go nearly as far in adding impact players.

I'm all for adding the right impact player, but I'm not willing to give away the entire future to do it.

How are you going to know unless you try? Prospects are just that, PROSPECTS!I am personally sick of waiting to win it all! Let KW do the worrying about what he has to give up, thats his job.

RedPinStripes
06-23-2005, 08:04 PM
Please no. Unless there's nothing better we can do. KW can do better then that **** bag.

chidonez
06-23-2005, 08:23 PM
Just heard the Score report that the Sox have been scouting Ted Lilly of Toronto.

His line:

W 5
L 7
ERA 6.08
G 14
GS 14
CG 0
SHO 0
SV 0
SVO 0
IP 71
H 78
R 48
ER 48
HR 13
HBP 2
BB 31
SO 57

balke
06-23-2005, 08:28 PM
I would presume El Duque would be part of the trade for Lilly if he is hurt. Maybe not, but I'd see something like El Duque for Lilly, and either a salary exchange, or some low level prospects.

It would be foolish to blow Mccarthy or Anderson for Lilly, and I don't think the type of pitcher "worth" them is available. Clemens won't come here, and I can't think of another pitcher in the league that is supposed to "lead" the Sox or whatever. Lilly's having a rough season, but I don't see him as any more a gamble than Zito. He'd probably come at a cheaper price as well.

White Sox Josh
06-23-2005, 08:31 PM
Just heard the Score report that the Sox have been scouting Ted Lilly of Toronto.

His line:

W 5
L 7
ERA 6.08
G 14
GS 14
CG 0
SHO 0
SV 0
SVO 0
IP 71
H 78
R 48
ER 48
HR 13
HBP 2
BB 31
SO 57And what does the tittle have to do with the thread?:dunno::dunno:

Ron Karkovice
06-23-2005, 08:36 PM
http://www.virgoinservice.com/articles/images/fan3_03.jpg
http://baseball301434.tripod.com/Athletics/Lilly1.jpg

thats better!

21whitesoxway
06-23-2005, 08:42 PM
I would presume El Duque would be part of the trade for Lilly if he is hurt. Maybe not, but I'd see something like El Duque for Lilly, and either a salary exchange, or some low level prospects.

It would be foolish to blow Mccarthy or Anderson for Lilly, and I don't think the type of pitcher "worth" them is available. Clemens won't come here, and I can't think of another pitcher in the league that is supposed to "lead" the Sox or whatever. Lilly's having a rough season, but I don't see him as any more a gamble than Zito. He'd probably come at a cheaper price as well.

yeah, except u can't trade an injured player.

chidonez
06-23-2005, 08:45 PM
And what does the tittle have to do with the thread?:dunno::dunno:

It's a well-known Who song, at least to some people.

Optipessimism
06-23-2005, 11:17 PM
it'd be gr8 to gete clemens but the chances of getting him are remote, but there have been talks of the sox interested in a diff astros pitcher, that being brad lidge

How much time does it really save to type '8' instead of '-eat?'

Just wondering.

FarWestChicago
06-23-2005, 11:32 PM
I saw that Ted Lilly was mentioned as someone the Sox were interested in. He doesn't really sound too interesting, but he could be used out of the pen and he is a lefty. But my dream pitcher this year for the Sox to pick up would be....Roger Clemens. I doubt he would agree to be traded to the Sox and leave Texas, but the thought of having that guy for the stretch run...WOW!Sigh, how many times must people post duplicate threads? Do you people really think we have nothing better to do than merge the threads you start out of pure laziness. I've got news for you. Some of us have a lot more on our plates than you could ever dream of. ****ing read before you post an old, tired scoop. :rolleyes:

Banix12
06-23-2005, 11:43 PM
Beyond the 6.00+ ERA there are just a few things that make me nervous about Lilly this year. In half of his starts so far he has failed to go at least six innings. He's only thrown over 90 pitches in 4 of his 14 starts. Is he coming off an injury or something? Has he caught David Weathers disease? (when he was a starter he was usually good for five innings but then in the sixth would get rocked)

It's hard to judge without seeing the games but they certainly aren't taxing his arm much.

Hendu
06-24-2005, 12:30 AM
No, I said I'm in favor of adding an impact player. And it will cost one or more good prospects. Fine. But there are a few untouchables that I would not trade away for anyone.

My problem with Lilly is that once Hernandez comes off the DL, Lilly becomes a fifth wheel. Does he go to the pen? How will he take to that and what do they do if it doesn't work out? Lots of question marks. I could live with Vizcaino + a low prospect for Lilly. I just don't think it's really the move that's going to make a difference. If Hernandez can start 12 more games, and if they can skip over his spot in the rotation a few times when they have off-days, another starter wouldn't be needed more than 3-4 times. I just don't think it's worth getting Lilly for those few games.

I'd rather go after a solid reliever and live with McCarthy for the few starts he's going to be necessary. Get someone like Eddie Guardado. He'd cost more in trade, but I think could still be gotten without trading any of the "untouchables".

It seemed to me that KW & Ozzie were contemplating putting El Duque in the pen anyways if B Mac pitched well in his starts. Since that doesn't look like a probability anymore, Kenny is probably looking for back-up options.

If we could get Lilly for low-level prospects, fine. I'd expect a Roy Oswalt-type pitcher for any of our big-time prospects. Then the El Duque situation will be dealt with when he gets off the DL and he'll probably be used like the yankees used him last year

21whitesoxway
06-24-2005, 12:50 AM
looking through jays fans forums is retarded. i can't beilieve these fools think we would trade paulie in any way for ted lilly. personally, i think the best they can hope for professionally from our team is wee-willy, they do :tongue: need a lead-off style batter in front of o-dog.

Soxrockhead2BANNEDagain
06-25-2005, 12:54 AM
We need a back up starter but I don't know if Lilly is the Answer.

Lip Man 1
06-25-2005, 02:27 AM
It was posted tonight on the Tribune web site in a story that the Sox had a scout at Lilly's last start where he struck out 10 Orioles.

Apparently it's now confirmed the Sox are at least looking at him.

Lip

Soxrockhead2BANNEDagain
06-26-2005, 04:21 PM
this is the link.... http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/48998.htm

The tribune also reported our scout watched Lilly pitch and might be interested.

Fenway
06-26-2005, 04:30 PM
White Sox are NOT alone


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2005/06/26/look_deeper_on_homer_totals/?page=full


The Jason Schmidt-to-the-Red Sox rumors refuse to die, though indications are that the Sox have not pushed for the Giants ace, who has strung together 17 scoreless innings after getting off to a rocky start that included a shoulder strain. Schmidt's velocity has been down -- much like Carl Pavano of the Yankees, who has given up 16 home runs -- but he touched 95 in his last start and had plenty of juice in the late innings.

One major league executive insisted that the Sox, intent on moving Bronson Arroyo to the pen and still uncertain how long it will take Curt Schilling to regain his form, and the White Sox, who just placed Orlando Hernandez on the disabled list and are not sure that young Brandon McCarthy is ready to do the job, are both in on Schmidt, and each has kids who might interest the Giants. The Yankees, with Jaret Wright and Kevin Brown both on the DL, also could get in the picture. The Orioles are another team that would likely have interest, though injuries may finally be taking their toll on the Birds.

Sammy Sosa hasn't helped the Baltimore cause. Sosa was just 1 for 16 in Toronto last week, his average is down to .246, and his swing is so bad ''you could time it with an hourglass," said one scout. The most stunning aspect of Sosa's performance this season is that he has only two home runs in 98 at-bats in cozy Camden Yards.

sthbndsox
06-26-2005, 04:34 PM
Oh my god, if we had Schmidt in the rotation, our 4-man playoff rotation would be unbelieveable. Buehrle, Schmidt, Garcia, Garland..... Gives me chills just thinking about it.

Iguana775
06-26-2005, 04:49 PM
I would LOVE to see him in a Sox uni.

SpartanSoxFan
06-26-2005, 04:52 PM
This poll completely sucks. Lilly is not anywhere in the same league as Jason Schmidt. *****.

Soxrockhead2BANNEDagain
06-26-2005, 05:07 PM
well i hope we get him.

batmanZoSo
06-26-2005, 05:13 PM
Oh my god, if we had Schmidt in the rotation, our 4-man playoff rotation would be unbelieveable. Buehrle, Schmidt, Garcia, Garland..... Gives me chills just thinking about it.

And Contreras for long relief. Hehehe. Sweet.

SOXSINCE'70
06-26-2005, 05:59 PM
I guess my trade Crede,Uribe,El Duque,Contreras and a bag
of old baseballs for Mike Mussina,Randy Johnson and Mariano Rivera
idea is out the window now,huh??:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :rolling: :rolling:

Jjav829
06-26-2005, 06:06 PM
White Sox are NOT alone



Leave Schmidt alone. He's ours. You guys had your fun last year.

Fenway
06-26-2005, 06:21 PM
Leave Schmidt alone. He's ours. You guys had your fun last year.

Red Sox have to keep up with the Patriots :tongue:

Dan H
06-26-2005, 06:32 PM
If the White Sox somehow get Schmidt, they won't have anything to worry about. We Sox fan won't either.

ChiSoxRowand
06-26-2005, 06:36 PM
I would love to have Schmidt, if he shows he is healthy and his velocity is up. We would have to give up a lot though. From what I am hearing they want 3 top prospects. Maybe McCarthy, Anderson, and Fields?

Joosh
06-26-2005, 07:00 PM
How bout that Can't-Miss Prospect Joe Borchard? They better eat some of Schmidts salary if we have to send him over.

batmanZoSo
06-26-2005, 07:02 PM
Just get it done.

ChiSoxGreg
06-26-2005, 07:43 PM
My friend told me about this site and I have benn a long-time reader and now first time poster. I live in the LA area and was listening ESPN Radio 710 in LA and they were talking about Jason Schmidt and specifically who he would accept a trade to. The baseball beat guy said he would only accpet a trade to nine teams: Yankees, Mets, White Sox, Cubs, Angels, Tigers, Cardinals, Orioles, Red Sox. Nice to see the White Sox on the list and they also mentioned that from talking to Schmidt, he doesn't want to leave San Fran, but thinks he will be traded. I just found this interesting, so wanted to pass it along.

NonetheLoaiza
06-26-2005, 07:47 PM
If the Sawx get him, I'll be mad. I mean, c'mon...CA MOOONNN.

Any time a big name pitcher is on the market, either Boston or NY will be mentioned. If the real Sox get Schmidt, I would like to see us not overpay.

Podzilla_40
06-26-2005, 07:51 PM
Rogowski, McCarthy, Liotta, Fields for Schmidt?

Soxrockhead2BANNEDagain
06-27-2005, 01:30 PM
thats my pole.

CYGarland20
06-27-2005, 04:35 PM
it appears that the Sox are at least moderately interested in possibly trading for Ted Lilly. No thanks. If were going to go after pitcher, than it should be a # 1 type starter or top notch closer, and nothing else.

White Sox Josh
06-27-2005, 04:36 PM
No thanks. If were going to go after pitcher, than it should be a # 1 type starter or top notch closer, and nothing else.what about Lilly's teamate Miguel Batista. He is a guy who the Sox can put in the Bullpen when El Duque is healthy and effective but when someone goes down or isn't effective put Batista in the rotation.

CYGarland20
06-27-2005, 04:38 PM
The baseball beat guy said he would only accpet a trade to nine teams: Yankees, Mets, White Sox, Cubs, Angels, Tigers, Cardinals, Orioles, Red Sox The Tigers?? why the hell would he want to go there? He must be from there or something. I sure would LOVE to get him though. That would be AWESOME!!

White Sox Josh
06-27-2005, 04:44 PM
Some things to consider:

1.) Neal Cotts has serious swingman potential.
2.) If Shingo returns to form, Hermanson can fill the gap. That's half of why we got him.
3.) Brandon McCarthy, so far, has kept us in two out of three games. He's looked pretty good against major league batters but seems to have trouble closing the door. He's better than the rotating door we had at 5th starter last year by a lot.

I'm actually for giving Brandon McCarthy time to learn at the major league level. He has the stuff and the control to handle MLB hitters, but seems to lack something in his approach. Sorta like Jon Garland pre-2005. As long as our other four starters are doing this well, there's absolutely no reason not to use him. Sure, it might make the numbers look a little worse, but I think the team will be better off in the end for it.Wouldn't Hermy have to be stretched out a bit before he would start.

Chisox003
06-27-2005, 04:47 PM
Wouldn't Hermy have to be stretched out a bit before he would start.

Wouldnt you say the same about Batista, who you seem to be obsessed with? Even if we did get him (which isnt happening), he would only be used in the pen

Meanfish is crazy if he thinks Shingo should be closing again....

I hope he returns to form or close to his 2004 self just to have another effective reliever, but who in their right mind would remove Hermanson from the closer's role? Hes been, for the most part, unhittable

Hes our closer

sthbndsox
06-27-2005, 08:35 PM
I dont know if I'm wrong in my opinions or not, but I dont really care who we'd have to give up as long as they aren't a big important part of our major league roster. It would all be worth it for Schmidt, IMO.

Soxrockhead2BANNEDagain
06-28-2005, 12:23 PM
If we are to go after anyone it should be schmidt. Lilly sucks and Burnett is going to go to Baltimore. The question is who would we have to give up.

21whitesoxway
06-28-2005, 10:28 PM
Rogowski, McCarthy, Liotta, Fields for Schmidt?

This would indeed be the stupidest trade ever, truly moronic for us to do.

Soxrockhead2BANNEDagain
06-29-2005, 12:37 PM
This would indeed be the stupidest trade ever, truly moronic for us to do.

Dued me and you are on the same page here. *** kinda trade is that?