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View Full Version : The Official "Who should KW trade for IF El Duque is out for the duration?" thread


ThinWhiteDuque
06-21-2005, 12:42 AM
Hopefully, "The Duke" :smile: comes back healthy and sound, and relatively soon.

If he does not, however, McCarthy is obviously not the answer THIS YEAR. He's a great prospect, but he needs more seasoning in the minors, or in MLB long relief.

I say we go get Brandon Backe from the Astros. He's young (26), cheap (both in terms of salary and what it would take to get him), he has great stuff, and he's shown to be clutch in playoff situations. Remember his brilliant playoff outings for the 'Stros?

Anyway, he's just one of several possibilities. Looking forward to hearing yours...

Maybe the answer lies within the organization (i.e., Neal Cotts)?...

JDsDirtySox
06-21-2005, 12:43 AM
How about Kip Wells or Mark Redman from the Bucs?

SouthSide4Life
06-21-2005, 12:44 AM
:jerry.

doublem23
06-21-2005, 12:44 AM
The Official this thread is headed to What's the Score post.

Continue speculating.

P.S. "El Duque" means The Duke, not the Count.

NealCotts4Life
06-21-2005, 12:45 AM
They should throw in a minor leauger for Bill Mueller.

Banix12
06-21-2005, 01:00 AM
They should throw in a minor leauger for Bill Mueller.

Wow fifth post into the thread and someone already suggests trading for Bill Mueller. And the thread isn't even about 3rd basemen. I thought we covered Mueller trades last week

Anyway, welcome to the site.

Banix12
06-21-2005, 01:07 AM
Jaime Moyer or Mark Redman, there really isn't much else pitching worth having that looks to be available this trade deadline, unless Kenny works a miracle and talks Clemens into taking a shot with a team that isn't the yankees.

I doubt Backe is on the market since the Astros own him right now through his cheap years and they are likely to have many holes in the rotation next season. Anyway, they don't really need to be looking for youth, just someone who can keep them in games for a couple months since next year's rotation seems about set.

NealCotts4Life
06-21-2005, 01:09 AM
Oh man. I'm sorry about that i didnt read the title the closely.

If they need a pitcher, they should bring up Neal into the rotaion and trade for a reliver.

rowand33
06-21-2005, 01:12 AM
Kip Wells, come on home.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesplayers/wellskip.jpg

Others include:
Roy Oswalt, Doug Davis, Barry Zito.

:AJ:

"I say we go out and get Brett Tomko!"

Banix12
06-21-2005, 01:21 AM
Oh man. I'm sorry about that i didnt read the title the closely.

If they need a pitcher, they should bring up Neal into the rotaion and trade for a reliver.

No prob dude. Just a having some fun. But seriously... :welcome:

I figure Cotts has become too valuable in the bullpen to move into the rotation this season, and there is the matter he hasn't really been stretched out to work as a starter this year. They especially can't move him since the team can't entirely trust Shingo and Vizcaino yet and if he gets moved out that means there is just another hole to fill in the bullpen. Not this year, though next season or the season after that I could see cotts become a starter again.

Hopefully, "The Duke" comes back healthy and sound, and relatively soon.

If he does not, however, McCarthy is obviously not the answer THIS YEAR. He's a great prospect, but he needs more seasoning in the minors, or in MLB long relief.


Welcome to you as well ThinWhiteDuque, just noticed that you were new as well. I wouldn't be sticking a fork in McCarthy's chances of helping the sox this season yet. He's only made three major league starts and only one of those was an unmitigated disaster. He did well against the cubs and was doing ok tonight until he walked the guy with 2 outs in the fifth.

He might not be the answer this season but three starts really isn't enough time. though I admit he hasn't been filling me with confidence.

kittle42
06-21-2005, 01:36 AM
If I ever see Kip Wells in a Sox uniform again, I will gouge my eyes out with a fork.

Dan H
06-21-2005, 07:49 AM
Eventually the Sox will need a veteran pitcher to give them some help this season. They can't count on Hernandez and actually never could. The victories they already got out of him is a plus. McCarthy is not ready no matter how much potential he has. Problem teams may not be ready to deal for a few more weeks.

The Dude
06-21-2005, 08:36 AM
If I ever see Kip Wells in a Sox uniform again, I will gouge my eyes out with a fork.

Why the hate?? I hope that was supposed to be in teal.
Hes a pretty decent pitcher who would pitch much better with some run support.
I for one would gladly welcome him back if it turns out Duque will be a recurring problem. I've always held a soft spot for the kipper even after he was traded.

The Dude
06-21-2005, 08:38 AM
Eventually the Sox will need a veteran pitcher to give them some help this season. They can't count on Hernandez and actually never could. The victories they already got out of him is a plus. McCarthy is not ready no matter how much potential he has. Problem teams may not be ready to deal for a few more weeks.

I think we will need Duque in the long haul, especially come playoff time. Hes a veteran, and when healthy...can be a very nasty pitcher. I think the Sox are being extra extra cautious when he gets even a little tweak in his shoulder.

munchman33
06-21-2005, 09:56 AM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.

Chisox003
06-21-2005, 10:01 AM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.

1) Thats a pretty big IF - He hasnt been the same this whole year...Plus, the Giants would want WAY too much for an oft injured (steroids?) pitcher

2) Better than anyone on our staff? We have a guy named Mark Buehrle...He's pretty good too

samram
06-21-2005, 10:03 AM
Why the hate?? I hope that was supposed to be in teal.
Hes a pretty decent pitcher who would pitch much better with some run support.
I for one would gladly welcome him back if it turns out Duque will be a recurring problem. I've always held a soft spot for the kipper even after he was traded.

The problem with Wells is he has never pitched well in a pennant race. Remove 2000 due to his youth. The Pirates have never been in contention, so he's been able to pitch pretty much pressure-free for four years.

34 Inch Stick
06-21-2005, 10:05 AM
I vote for nobody. The Sox are poised to run away with the division this year. That means the 5th starter will be irrelevant down the stretch and will not come into play in the playoffs.

Once Gload gets back for a lefthanded bat off the bench, I would have no problem going into the playoffs with the team we have right now.

samram
06-21-2005, 10:06 AM
If I ever see Kip Wells in a Sox uniform again, I will gouge my eyes out with a fork.

Use a spoon. The round edges will hurt more, lessening the relative pain of Kip's being back.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2005, 10:28 AM
The Pirates have a chance at the .500 mark or better this season for the first time in years. I don't think they will be trading anyone unless someone overpays for Wells (who can be a FA I think this year) or Redman.

There are a number of teams like that around MLB including Milwaukee and Detroit.

At this point in time the only clubs I see as definate 'sellers' are Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Houston, Cincinnati, San Francisco and Colorado.

That may change in a few weeks. We'll see.

Lip

beckett21
06-21-2005, 10:34 AM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.

Schmidt will be quite a prize for someone if this is true. Assuming he is healthy, of course. The way he has pitched thus far seems to be screaming *injury*.

Nonetheless, if he were to pass a physical I'd take my chances and welcome him to the Sox staff with open arms.

spiffie
06-21-2005, 10:56 AM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.

:burly

Am I invisible over here?

The Dude
06-21-2005, 12:16 PM
The problem with Wells is he has never pitched well in a pennant race. Remove 2000 due to his youth. The Pirates have never been in contention, so he's been able to pitch pretty much pressure-free for four years.

Well you just answered yourself, 2000 was due to his youth. So where else can he get a chance to prove himself? Obviously he hasnt had the chance yet, so I wouldnt write him off as a bad pitcher because he hasnt had the opportunity and has had 4 pressure-free years. He has great stuff, and at the right price...hell, the Pirates owe us one!

The Dude
06-21-2005, 12:18 PM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.

I sure as hell dont agree that hes a better pitcher than MB. Obviously, injuries play a big role in telling how much a pitcher is worth. Schmidt has been hurt the past two years now....thats not a durable pitcher.
Give me burlymon anyday!

daveeym
06-21-2005, 12:21 PM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff. That's pretty :dtroll: from a regular.

socko82
06-21-2005, 12:30 PM
Why the hate?? I hope that was supposed to be in teal.
Hes a pretty decent pitcher who would pitch much better with some run support.
I for one would gladly welcome him back if it turns out Duque will be a recurring problem. I've always held a soft spot for the kipper even after he was traded.

Wells is a good pitcher as long as no one's watching, which is why he's pitched his best in Pittsburgh. His rectum tightens up at the slightest hint of pressure and people start paying attention to him. Last week he pitched in front of big crowds in Yankee Stadium and Fenway and got shelled twice.

SoxSpeed22
06-21-2005, 12:44 PM
Wells is a good pitcher as long as no one's watching, which is why he's pitched his best in Pittsburgh. His rectum tightens up at the slightest hint of pressure and people start paying attention to him. Last week he pitched in front of big crowds in Yankee Stadium and Fenway and got shelled twice.Coincidentally by teams with strong lineups. The problem is you're gonna be facing strong lineups when it matters. I don't know how much Zito has left in him, but he seems like the guy I'd trade for. Assuming Beane doesn't try and scam KW again like he did with Koch.

Flight #24
06-21-2005, 12:45 PM
Here's the key. Unless you're getting a true stud ala Oswalt (which is a pipedream that no pink is deep enough for), you do NOT trade any of your top guys. Go for Aaron Harang, Jason Jennings, Redman/Wells, Kirk Rueter, Ted Lilly or someone of that ilk who won't command a high return in talent.

Do NOT go for Zito/Schmidt. They will cost you at least one top prospect, and they're not currently pitching worth that. You'd be paying for past history, which wouldn't do you much good.

There's nothing that says Duque won't be back, but it seems likely he'll be in & out some.

ma_deuce
06-21-2005, 12:48 PM
[Deep Pink] :bcolon [/Deep Pink]

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 12:51 PM
Offer the farm for Roger. Oswalt is their future, so no way that would happen. I just don't see anyone else out there who is enough of a difference maker to justify the price. Roger is deep pink, too, but more reasonable that Oswalt, IMO.

The Dude
06-21-2005, 01:02 PM
Offer the farm for Roger. Oswalt is their future, so no way that would happen. I just don't see anyone else out there who is enough of a difference maker to justify the price. Roger is deep pink, too, but more reasonable that Oswalt, IMO.

Not about to trade the future for a 1 yr pitcher. No thanks

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 01:03 PM
Not about to trade the future for a 1 yr pitcher. No thanks

Um, the future is now, sorry. Adding Roger would SIGNIFICANTLY increase this year's chances of winning a World Series. That's worth it, for me. If we win a World Series this year, I can live with a handful of down years, which of course wouldn't happen b/c the rest of our pitching staff is locked up thru next year.

EDIT: Think about it. Roger. MB. Freddy. And Jon. Roger and MB throwing 4 games of a 7 game series? Backed up by Freddy and JG? No one can come close to touching that.

Jjav829
06-21-2005, 01:24 PM
That's pretty :dtroll: from a regular.

I don't know about that. I think the "way better" part was a bit overboard, but Schmidt has been the best pitcher in the NL over the past two years. Yeah, he's been on the DL a few times, but he's still racked up over 200 innings in each year. If healthy, he'd make a great 1-2 punch with Buehrle. I don't know if the Giants will consider trading Schmidt, or how healthy he really is, but you put a healthy Schmidt in this rotation with Buehrle and the Sox become a lot scarier team.

The Dude
06-21-2005, 01:26 PM
Um, the future is now, sorry. Adding Roger would SIGNIFICANTLY increase this year's chances of winning a World Series. That's worth it, for me. If we win a World Series this year, I can live with a handful of down years, which of course wouldn't happen b/c the rest of our pitching staff is locked up thru next year.

EDIT: Think about it. Roger. MB. Freddy. And Jon. Roger and MB throwing 4 games of a 7 game series? Backed up by Freddy and JG? No one can come close to touching that.

Well regardless to how good that looks, Roger had said himself that hed maybe consider going to the Yanks and thats it. So i guess the Roger should be in deep pink.

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 01:36 PM
Well regardless to how good that looks, Roger had said himself that hed maybe consider going to the Yanks and thats it. So i guess the Roger should be in deep pink.

I agree it's deep pink. But I also think that Roger would consider going to a team with an 8 game lead and the best record in baseball in July (if we keep this up).

beckett21
06-21-2005, 02:11 PM
I don't know about that. I think the "way better" part was a bit overboard, but Schmidt has been the best pitcher in the NL over the past two years. Yeah, he's been on the DL a few times, but he's still racked up over 200 innings in each year. If healthy, he'd make a great 1-2 punch with Buehrle. I don't know if the Giants will consider trading Schmidt, or how healthy he really is, but you put a healthy Schmidt in this rotation with Buehrle and the Sox become a lot scarier team.

:yup:

Schmidt was dominant the second half of last year IIRC. He always seems to pitch better in the second half for some reason. He is definitely worth a serious look if available. Seem to be some short memories around here. I'm not saying he's better than Buehrle, but the guy is a legitimate ace in his own right.

Flight #24
06-21-2005, 02:16 PM
:yup:

Schmidt was dominant the second half of last year IIRC. He always seems to pitch better in the second half for some reason. He is definitely worth a serious look if available. Seem to be some short memories around here. I'm not saying he's better than Buehrle, but the guy is a legitimate ace in his own right.

IMO it's not that anyone forgets what he's done, it's that his performance to date this year leads one to believe that he might not give you a 2d half in line with his "usual" performance - whether that's because of injury or because he's just having a down year. IMO he'll cost too much to take that risk when all you really need is a solid #4 or 5 starter.

But if KW is convinced that he's healthy and ready to put up #s like he can, then he would obviously be a great addition.

gobears1987
06-21-2005, 02:36 PM
Roger Clemens, JR said he'd increase payroll
No need to explain the deep pink here. I'm not saying JR is cheap, but Clemens has a clause where a $3 million bonus has to be paid if he's traded. That's in addition to his already huge contract. I doubt even the Yankees could easily pay him.

daveeym
06-21-2005, 02:44 PM
I don't know about that. I think the "way better" part was a bit overboard, but Schmidt has been the best pitcher in the NL over the past two years. Yeah, he's been on the DL a few times, but he's still racked up over 200 innings in each year. If healthy, he'd make a great 1-2 punch with Buehrle. I don't know if the Giants will consider trading Schmidt, or how healthy he really is, but you put a healthy Schmidt in this rotation with Buehrle and the Sox become a lot scarier team. It was in reference to the "Way Better" part.

Edit not to mention he's got ten years in the league with most of his years being pre 2005 garlandesque. He's more loiza than clemens.

TheOldRoman
06-21-2005, 02:46 PM
While the Astros and the Giants suck it hard right now, I don't look at them as sellers. They are both 8 back in the wild card. Who else is 8 back? None other than the eventual World Series Champion Minnesota Twins. While I think the Sox are going to run away with the division, it is in no way over yet. The Astros and Giants are roundly dismissed, but most of America still thinks the Twins will win the central.

The Astros have been playing better ball lately. Berkman will continue improving as he gets back into things, and the Astros still have awesome pitching. If they can pick up a hitter or two, they will be right back in the thick of things.
The Giants suck really bad, but they have a lot of veteran talent (a little too much), and they could be getting Barroids back in the second half. Bonds would greatly improve their offensive outlook, but they would still have bullpen problems. If they can pick up an arm or two, they will be in the thick of things.

DaleJRFan
06-21-2005, 02:48 PM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6525.jpg
"That's news to me."

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 03:09 PM
Roger Clemens, JR said he'd increase payroll
No need to explain the deep pink here. I'm not saying JR is cheap, but Clemens has a clause where a $3 million bonus has to be paid if he's traded. That's in addition to his already huge contract. I doubt even the Yankees could easily pay him.


Well, Roger would be owed about $10MM. If you think about it, I am guessing the budget for this team was based on about 1.8 million fans. We're looking at actually drawing around 2.3 million. An extra half million fans brings in at least an extra $10MM in revenue (500,000 fans average AT LEAST $20 a person in revenue).

Again, all deep pink, but fun none the less.

DickAllen72
06-21-2005, 04:47 PM
Offer the farm for Roger. Oswalt is their future, so no way that would happen. I just don't see anyone else out there who is enough of a difference maker to justify the price. Roger is deep pink, too, but more reasonable that Oswalt, IMO.

I don't know about the whole farm, but I'd trade BMac for Clemens straight up in a heartbeat. If the Astro's scouts think as highly of BMac as our organization does, they would probably take it since they would be saving a ton of money and they are going nowhere this year. BMac in the rotation with Oswalt gives them two aces for years to come (providing BMac is the real deal).

Clemens added to the Sox staff gives them the best rotation around. If KW believes this is THE year, he should try to pull this off.

DickAllen72
06-21-2005, 04:52 PM
Apparently, Jason Schmidt is available. If gets back to being himself, he's way better than anyone else on our staff.
Paulie, is that you?

DickAllen72
06-21-2005, 04:57 PM
Well, Roger would be owed about $10MM. If you think about it, I am guessing the budget for this team was based on about 1.8 million fans. We're looking at actually drawing around 2.3 million. An extra half million fans brings in at least an extra $10MM in revenue (500,000 fans average AT LEAST $20 a person in revenue).

Again, all deep pink, but fun none the less.

Clemens is one of the few pitchers around who would actually put asses in the seats. Can you imagine the buzz acquiring him would cause?

I know he supposedly only would consider going to the Yankees or maybe Rangers, but I think under the present circumstances he would seriously consider the White Sox.

Of course,
it's all deep pink that this ever occurs, but it would be nice.

MIgrenade
06-21-2005, 05:44 PM
I hope you guys realize that Clemens has been pitching in the NL, which just happens to SUCK REALLY BAD!! He also has the option of not traveling with the team and gets to go home to his family after the games. You have no idea if he is going to be as effective in the AL and in any other city. Chances are that he will be very good in the playoffs because he thrives on that pressure, but I don't think he is worth giving up the entire farm system for because he may leave Houston and become Randy Johnson...which won't do us much good right now.

Just be careful what you wish for.

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 05:48 PM
I hope you guys realize that Clemens has been pitching in the NL, which just happens to SUCK REALLY BAD!! He also has the option of not traveling with the team and gets to go home to his family after the games. You have no idea if he is going to be as effective in the AL and in any other city. Chances are that he will be very good in the playoffs because he thrives on that pressure, but I don't think he is worth giving up the entire farm system for because he may leave Houston and become Randy Johnson...which won't do us much good right now.

Just be careful what you wish for.

The NL may be bad, but a 1.53 ERA is a 1.53 ERA.

Oh no! He'd have an ERA of 2.50 in the American League, so he isn't a top of the line starter.

SOXSINCE'70
06-21-2005, 05:53 PM
How about acquiring Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez??:roflmao: :roflmao: :D:

DickAllen72
06-21-2005, 06:58 PM
He also has the option of not traveling with the team and gets to go home to his family after the games.

That part does bother me.

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 06:59 PM
That part does bother me.

I agree that part is bothersome. But if he is gonna go out there and twirl a gem every 5th day for a half season and post season run, I'd go for it.

munchman33
06-21-2005, 07:20 PM
Wow. I'm taking a lot of heat here. I love Buehrle as much as the next guy, but Schmidt is a proven ace who's won in the playoffs. His stuff is way better than Buehrle's, and he's been the best pitcher in the national league for the last few years.

2002 era 3.45 in 185 innings, 196 K
2003 era 2.34 in 207 innings, 208 K
2004 era 3.20 in 225 innings, 251 K


Interesting bit on Schmidt's contract. He has a $10 million team option next year, with a $3 million buyout. Reasonable price if he's the pitcher he's been the last few years.

ilsox7
06-21-2005, 07:21 PM
Wow. I'm taking a lot of heat here. I love Buehrle as much as the next guy, but Schmidt is a proven ace who's won in the playoffs. His stuff is way better than Buehrle's, and he's been the best pitcher in the national league for the last few years.

2002 era 3.45 in 185 innings, 196 K
2003 era 2.34 in 207 innings, 208 K
2004 era 3.20 in 225 innings, 251 K


Interesting bit on Schmidt's contract. He has a $10 million team option next year, with a $3 million buyout. Reasonable price if he's the pitcher he's been the last few years.

But that's a BIG if given the first 2 1/2 months of this season.

soxwon
06-21-2005, 07:30 PM
Schmidt will be quite a prize for someone if this is true. Assuming he is healthy, of course. The way he has pitched thus far seems to be screaming *injury*.

Nonetheless, if he were to pass a physical I'd take my chances and welcome him to the Sox staff with open arms.


we wont get SCHMIDT, though i do work with his cousin.
i could have him talk to jason HMMMM

SouthSideHitman.
06-21-2005, 07:46 PM
:jerry.:rolling::rolling::rolling:

ATXBMX
06-21-2005, 08:07 PM
Last year it was Johnson, this year it's Clemens. That whole thing about not traveling with the team/going home is a bunch of BS. He's pitching for personal stats at this point. He doesn't seem like a team player, and that would hurt this team's chemistry. It won't happen. The best we can hope for is someone like Redman, Wells, etc. Buehrle is the ace, and it's going to stay that way.