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View Full Version : Nice Piece about The Duke/B-MAC saga


Cubbiesuck13
06-20-2005, 05:30 AM
A trip to the playoffs for the Sox seems a safe bet. If they miss the postseason after this start, it would be a choke of Cubs-sized proportions.

Nice quote in a nice article by De Luca

http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca20.htm

Iguana775
06-20-2005, 07:16 AM
Nice quote in a nice article by De Luca

http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca20.htm




The rumor mill is stuffed with big-name players supposedly available -- pitchers such as Eric Milton, Roy Oswalt, Brandon Backe and Kip Wells and offensive threats such as Preston Wilson, Mike Cameron, Eric Chavez, Aubrey Huff and Matt Lawton.


If KW could pull off a trade for Oswalt, i would crap my pants.

SSN721
06-20-2005, 07:21 AM
Nice little article there, thanks for the post. As I stated in the other EL Duque thread today, and many others have posted, this is a guy we need to pitch in the playoffs. I still hope McCarthy goes back down again to get as many starts as possible unless he ends up being lights out with the big league club while he is here. As far as this team being World Series ready? I dont know, I dont know how many people I would want to pick up that wouldnt disrupt whatever magic the team has going right now. Everyone has either been exceptional or adequate enough that it isnt worth trading for a replacement that isnt much better, or to trade away the farm to get a big name player. And I dont consider many players on the list in that article as real big-name players worthy of giving up a lot for to replace adequate ones already filling their positions.

SSN721
06-20-2005, 07:22 AM
If KW could pull off a trade for Oswalt, i would crap my pants.

Oswalt or Backe would make me very happy though if KW could swing that.

gobears1987
06-20-2005, 08:11 AM
Oswalt or Backe would make me very happy though if KW could swing that.
Why get Oswalt when the Rocket is on the trading block?

Frater Perdurabo
06-20-2005, 08:32 AM
When Hernandez comes off the disabled list in two weeks, McCarthy likely will move to the bullpen and ride out the season with the Sox -- unless he collapses in the next two weeks.

I'm going to suggest again that when El Duque returns, the Sox put McCarthy in the pen and tell him that he will relieve Hernandez every fifth day and occasionally start for him. I think McCarthy would give the Sox four to five quality innings each time, meaning Hernandez would only have to pitch four or five innings in each start. This would save the rest of the bullpen to relieve the other four starters, allow McCarthy to cut his teeth against MLB hitters while pitching every fifth day for several innings at a time and keep El Duque sharp without overusing him.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2005, 12:18 PM
'Big Name' players?

Brandon Backe....you mean THE Brandon Backe is available? Kip Wells???

Oh my stars!

Lip

kevingrt
06-20-2005, 12:40 PM
'Big Name' players?

Brandon Backe....you mean THE Brandon Backe is available? Kip Wells???

Oh my stars!

Lip

Who doesn't want Kip Wells back? Do we get Todd Ritchie with him too?

soxfan43
06-20-2005, 12:42 PM
Everyone keeps bringing up pitching as a need. One think I was thinking about last night is the weather in october is typically cold. Our hitters typically suck in the cold. I think another bat would be idea, we don't want another collapse like in seattle

SOXSINCE'70
06-20-2005, 12:46 PM
'Big Name' players?

Brandon Backe....you mean THE Brandon Backe is available? Kip Wells???

Oh my stars!

Lip

I'm a big Elmer Dessens fan.:roflmao: :roflmao: Especially after the Sox
made him look like Joe Mays and Don Drysdale combined Saturday night.

Frater Perdurabo
06-20-2005, 12:51 PM
Everyone keeps bringing up pitching as a need. One think I was thinking about last night is the weather in october is typically cold. Our hitters typically suck in the cold. I think another bat would be idea, we don't want another collapse like in seattle

Yes, the hitters seem to do better when the heat is on, but I think that has more to do with power hitters. The Sox seemed to do very well during the first six weeks of the season when the weather was cool. This team manufactures runs and doesn't need the long ball to do it.

Another hitter may mean the difference between winning the Wild Card or the division by 2-3 games versus winning the division by 15 games, but when it comes to the playoffs I want the best starting pitching, period.

Also, although "chemistry" sometimes can be overrated, look what happened when the Sox added Charles Johnson in 2000. Although he performed well batting ninth during August and September, the Sox kind of coasted through the rest of the season. A starting pitcher, however, who only pitches once every five days, isn't crucial to the offense's "chemistry." Meanwhile, another starter would make the rotation solid and push the sixth-best starter to the bullpen!

Randar68
06-20-2005, 01:07 PM
Yes, the hitters seem to do better when the heat is on, but I think that has more to do with power hitters. The Sox seemed to do very well during the first six weeks of the season when the weather was cool. This team manufactures runs and doesn't need the long ball to do it.

Another hitter may mean the difference between winning the Wild Card or the division by 2-3 games versus winning the division by 15 games, but when it comes to the playoffs I want the best starting pitching, period.

Also, although "chemistry" sometimes can be overrated, look what happened when the Sox added Charles Johnson in 2000. Although he performed well batting ninth during August and September, the Sox kind of coasted through the rest of the season. A starting pitcher, however, who only pitches once every five days, isn't crucial to the offense's "chemistry." Meanwhile, another starter would make the rotation solid and push the sixth-best starter to the bullpen!


More OBP, please...

Too many guys on this team K too much and walk too infrequently. I'll take another middle-of-the-order hitter who can get on base at a great clip...

How much salary would Colorado eat now that Todd Helton has faltered for the last few weeks? The way people are pitching him, you put him back into an order with some legit hitters in it, and he's a couple weeks from being back at previous levels IMO...

Frater Perdurabo
06-20-2005, 01:43 PM
More OBP, please...

Too many guys on this team K too much and walk too infrequently. I'll take another middle-of-the-order hitter who can get on base at a great clip...

How much salary would Colorado eat now that Todd Helton has faltered for the last few weeks? The way people are pitching him, you put him back into an order with some legit hitters in it, and he's a couple weeks from being back at previous levels IMO...

More OBP definitely would be great, and left-handed OBP batting third behind Pods and Iguchi and in front of Frank would be phenomenal.

What I don't want to see is the Sox go after another "Robbie Alomar" or "Carl Everett" type of player. Don't get me wrong, Carl's been an important part of this team at times, but an aging player with a comparatively low OBP and limited defensive skills is not what this team needs.

DaleJRFan
06-20-2005, 01:48 PM
I find it hard to believe that the Astros would part with Oswalt or Backe. As much as any of us would love to see them come to the south side, don't get your hopes up. Remember how the Sox built this year's team, pitching first. Oswalt is 28 and a top-tier starter. Backe is 27 and a year off of stardom (5.70 era kinda stinks though). Why would Houston, seemingly needing to rebuild, trade away the foundation of any rebuilding process? It's highly unlikely .

Ol' No. 2
06-20-2005, 01:49 PM
More OBP definitely would be great, and left-handed OBP batting third behind Pods and Iguchi and in front of Frank would be phenomenal.

What I don't want to see is the Sox go after another "Robbie Alomar" or "Carl Everett" type of player. Don't get me wrong, Carl's been an important part of this team at times, but an aging player with a comparatively low OBP and limited defensive skills is not what this team needs.I'm fine with the hitting as-is. Look at the BP ERA and Takatsu and Vizcaino really stick out from the others. I still put another reliever as the #1 priority. A stud like Billy Wagner would be great, but even a decent 4 ERA pitcher would be an improvement.

Frater Perdurabo
06-20-2005, 02:56 PM
I'm fine with the hitting as-is. Look at the BP ERA and Takatsu and Vizcaino really stick out from the others. I still put another reliever as the #1 priority. A stud like Billy Wagner would be great, but even a decent 4 ERA pitcher would be an improvement.

Unless we're talking about a dominant closer, I'd still go for another starting pitcher before pursuing a reliever, because starters almost always are better pitchers than relievers. Getting a better starter pushes the weakest starter to the bullpen, which improves the bullpen as well. It's like getting two improvements by adding just one player.

PaulDrake
06-20-2005, 03:16 PM
Hernandez may have this great postseason record but at this point in his career I start feeling ill when he is on the mound. I'm not sure he's got much left in the tank. The White Sox haven't clinched anything yet. If KW can get a half way decent starter before the deadline then I say go for it.

Ol' No. 2
06-20-2005, 03:21 PM
Unless we're talking about a dominant closer, I'd still go for another starting pitcher before pursuing a reliever, because starters almost always are better pitchers than relievers. Getting a better starter pushes the weakest starter to the bullpen, which improves the bullpen as well. It's like getting two improvements by adding just one player.Not so simple. Who would you push to the bullpen? Contreras or Hernandez? I'm not so sure either would do well in a relief role and getting someone better than either would be very costly. OTOH, it shouldn't be that hard to get another good reliever. Remember, in the playoffs, one or two starters go to the pen anyway.

Possibilities:

Eddie Guardado
Miguel Batista
Danys Baez
Derrick Turnbow
Brad Lidge
Ugeth Ubina

All are on teams going nowhere.

MIgrenade
06-20-2005, 03:49 PM
Not so simple. Who would you push to the bullpen? Contreras or Hernandez? I'm not so sure either would do well in a relief role and getting someone better than either would be very costly. OTOH, it shouldn't be that hard to get another good reliever. Remember, in the playoffs, one or two starters go to the pen anyway.

Possibilities:

Eddie Guardado
Miguel Batista
Danys Baez
Derrick Turnbow
Brad Lidge
Ugeth Ubina

All are on teams going nowhere.

It's not just "who do you want" it's who are you willing to give up? I don't see the Sox dealing Anderson but they might have to for a real good closer. You can't just trade away El Duque or Shingo or Vizcaino. I don't see any move happening unless KW is going to trade the farm system again.

TaylorStSox
06-20-2005, 03:51 PM
I'd like somebody in the pen to eat innings. Our starters get stretched an awful lot. I don't want them to be used by September.

Randar68
06-20-2005, 03:51 PM
Not so simple. Who would you push to the bullpen? Contreras or Hernandez? I'm not so sure either would do well in a relief role and getting someone better than either would be very costly. OTOH, it shouldn't be that hard to get another good reliever. Remember, in the playoffs, one or two starters go to the pen anyway.

Possibilities:

Eddie Guardado
Miguel Batista
Danys Baez
Derrick Turnbow
Brad Lidge
Ugeth Ubina

All are on teams going nowhere.

Turnbow and Lidge = going nowhere

Guardado and Baez? AAAAACK!

Batista and Urbina? If Urbina is healthy, I'd take him, but that's really about it out of your list. Batista? Don't know...

The quality and quantity of available hitters is likely to be much better than what you can get in the pen, and legit bullpen guys usually cost you a lot, as they are in high demand...

Randar68
06-20-2005, 03:54 PM
I'd like somebody in the pen to eat innings. Our starters get stretched an awful lot. I don't want them to be used by September.

:?:

Huh? They get stretched a lot? They throw a lot of innings because they are quality pitchers. Take a look at pitch counts for a basic, yet relatively untrustworthy measure. Nobody goes more than 110-115 without being in the middle of a dominant outing...

Contreras is a horse, Garland, Buehrle and Garcia have all shown to be very durable over their careers, and Garcia and El Duque have had their innings/pitches monitored closely...

What's the point of having good starters if you're going to turn it over to the bullpen after 5-6 innings and just 80 pitches just because you can? You think that will set up well for the playoffs and pitchers going deep into games? YIKES!

GAsoxfan
06-20-2005, 03:59 PM
The only two guys I would want out of his list is Oswalt and Chavez. Urbina was just traded, so I don't think the Phillies would trade him again.

Ol' No. 2
06-20-2005, 03:59 PM
Turnbow and Lidge = going nowhere

Guardado and Baez? AAAAACK!

Batista and Urbina? If Urbina is healthy, I'd take him, but that's really about it out of your list. Batista? Don't know...

The quality and quantity of available hitters is likely to be much better than what you can get in the pen, and legit bullpen guys usually cost you a lot, as they are in high demand...Guardado is having a very good year and has been very consistent over the years, so I don't know why you'd say "AAAAACK!". Baez is also a solid, if unspectacular reliever that will probably be dealt. He'd come cheaper than Guardado. Oogie is already gone to Philly, but it could be they're stocking arms to trade later.

santo=dorf
06-20-2005, 04:02 PM
Turnbow and Lidge = going nowhere

Guardado and Baez? AAAAACK!

Batista and Urbina? If Urbina is healthy, I'd take him, but that's really about it out of your list. Batista? Don't know...

Guardado's rotator cuff is still giving him problems too.
Baez and Batista have high ass WHIP's and are able to get away with it because they are in a closer's role. Put in those guys in the 7th and 8th inning and they are no better than what we have now.

Urbina has been very good since the beginning of May, but I don't see the Phils out of it, so it would be hard to get Wagner too. :mad:

BeviBall!
06-20-2005, 04:07 PM
I'd like somebody in the pen to eat innings. Our starters get stretched an awful lot. I don't want them to be used by September.

Yep... we need a McCaskill.

Lip Man 1
06-20-2005, 05:20 PM
No. 2:

It doesn't look like the Phils are 'out' of the race by any means. They are going to hang on to Urbina.

Lip

Cubbiesuck13
06-20-2005, 06:44 PM
This whole thread should be in deep pink. My goodness with all the names being thrown out there I can't believe no one has mentioned Jason Schmidt. He has been struggling and the Giants are unsure if they want to sign him long-term. He has said that he doesn't care if he leaves. After his last start, a dominating performance against the Tigers (yeah-I know) he clearly has it back. Well it won't happen but it makes as much sense as the names you guys are talking about. Roy Oswalt!

If we make a trade, say goodbye to Brian Anderson and B-MAC. I would gladly give these guys up for someone like Oswalt or the Rocket (ha!) but I must have missed the memo where all the other GM's are comeplete idiots.