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EdHerman12
06-19-2005, 10:27 AM
Hello everyone. I've recently started posting on this site, and so this discussion might've been brought up before so my apologies if it has. I've been a life long (42 yrs) White Sox fan, and I still don't understand why in the world MLB moved the Milwaukee Brewers to the NL. I can tolerate the fact that both the AL and the NL split into 3 divisions, and came up with the wild card format. Anyway I was looking at the standings the other day, and I'm wondering why can't the Brewers move back into the AL Central? The NL Central has 6 teams and that would give them 5 across the league.

I realize that it would give the AL Central 6 teams, but someone would have to move to the AL West and the logical team would be Kansas City. That would leave the Sox, Twins, Brewers, Tigers, and Indians left to fight it out....it's almost a Big Ten type set up geographically! Besides losing KC to the West wouldn't be that big of a loss would it?

I can remember going to see the Sox in the great seasons of '83, and '93 up in Milwaukee...what a great time!:gulp::cheers: :drunken: Not only that, the fans up in Milwaukee were cool to hang out with before and after. Great places to go after the game.

Would anyone else like to see the same thing? I know it'll never happen....but I really hope some day it will. :rolleyes:

GO SOX!:bandance:

SaltyPretzel
06-19-2005, 11:03 AM
I'd love to see the Brewers back in the AL where they belong. However, with an odd number of teams in each league, it would be a scheduling nightmare.

CallMeNuts
06-19-2005, 11:30 AM
You've really hit a nerve here. This is one of my biggest indictments against Bud. If you want to have meaningful regular seasons, and some semblance of equal chances of reaching the playoffs, then how on earth can there be one 4-team division and another 6-team division? And there are several scheduling quirks that occur because of the unequal number of teams in each division.

You ask how it got this way: MLB didn't want an off number of teams in a league. This would require at least one interleague game the whole season long. MLB wanted to have all of the interleague games to occur in a period of a few weeks. IMHO, this is dumb. If the interleague games are truly special attractions that the networks are interested in broadcasting, then there is no reason to have a "rivals" weekend, with the NY, Chicago, LA series all occurring at the same time. Spread these out to generate more interest throughout the year. Put rivals games on Thursday nights and you can create another package to sell the networks. But I guess I'm digressing. The main point is that MLB decided there had to be even numbers in each league, so we are stuck with 16 in the NL and 14 in the AL.

So why did Milwaukee move? Bud wanted to be in the NL, thinking it would get him greater attendance. It's hard to tell if this has worked, since the Brewers moved into their new ballpark in 2001, but it does appear as though the NL has given Bud an additional 3 to 4 hundred thousand tickets sold per year. Of course, this move came at the direct expense of the Sox, as the Sox versus Brewers series is a great natural rivalry for us. But JR is a very loyal person (no teal), and approved of giving away his own best rival. We gave the Cubs one more good rivalry, when they already had the Cardinals.

I agree almost completely with the 5 teams in each of 6 division alignment that you propose. I might move Minnesota to the AL West instead of KC. I like it when interleague rivalries such as KC / StL, can stay in the same division.

doublem23
06-19-2005, 11:33 AM
A) Having an odd number of teams in each league would make scheduling near impossible without resorting to at least some sort of interleague play all season long (which would suck).

B) Bud, whose daughter still owes the Brew Crew IIRC, loves the revenue the Brewers rake in whenever Miller Park is infested with vermin Cub fans.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-19-2005, 12:24 PM
You can't have two leagues of 15 teams each unless you're prepared to watch interleague games every day of the season from April through September.

<gag wretch>

Selig deftly moved Milwaukee back to the N.L. back in 1998 using the excuse of 30 teams and scheduling issues.

:tool
"For my next trick, I'm going to change their name to 'The Original Braves' and swipe the old uniforms back from Atlanta, too! Nobody can stop me from playing with my peter and reliving my childhood! I'm the Commissioner of Baseball!!! Bwahahahahahaha!"

CallMeNuts
06-19-2005, 12:25 PM
A) Having an odd number of teams in each league would make scheduling near impossible without resorting to at least some sort of interleague play all season long (which would suck).

B) Bud, whose daughter still owes the Brew Crew IIRC, loves the revenue the Brewers rake in whenever Miller Park is infested with vermin Cub fans.

A) I agree that it would be ideal for all teams to be playing the end of the season against divisional foes, with the final series being the 1st and 2nd place teams going head to head. But with 4 of the 6 divisions having an odd number of teams, this doesn't happen anyway. I don't think the season is diminished if KC is playing Colorado on the last weekend.

But I do think the season would be improved if the big rivalry series were spread out more. I'd probably be interested watching the Yankees versus the Mets, but I'm busy watching the Sox beat the Cubs.

B) I thought Wendy and partners sold out. Per http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=mil
Mark Attanasio is the Chairman and Principal Owner. But Bud's heart is still where his pocketbook used to be.

doublem23
06-19-2005, 12:29 PM
:tool
"For my next trick, I'm going to change their name to 'The Original Braves' and swipe the old uniforms back from Atlanta, too! Nobody can stop me from playing with my peter and reliving my childhood! I'm the Commissioner of Baseball!!! Bwahahahahahaha!"

:rolling:

TheOldRoman
06-19-2005, 12:44 PM
A) Having an odd number of teams in each league would make scheduling near impossible without resorting to at least some sort of interleague play all season long (which would suck).

B) Bud, whose daughter still owes the Brew Crew IIRC, loves the revenue the Brewers rake in whenever Miller Park is infested with vermin Cub fans.They finally sold the team this offseason. The new ownership looks committed to winning.

MIgrenade
06-19-2005, 01:43 PM
Instead of having interleague all year, you could cut the number of games down and give more off days. I don't know exactly how this would work but there would be one team off in each league for 3 games during every set of series. If you cut back to 144 games it might work. Since most teams only get 2 days off a month, roughly, it might reduce injuries too.
Maybe this won't work, I haven't thought too much about it.

CallMeNuts
06-19-2005, 02:20 PM
Instead of having interleague all year, you could cut the number of games down and give more off days. I don't know exactly how this would work but there would be one team off in each league for 3 games during every set of series. If you cut back to 144 games it might work. Since most teams only get 2 days off a month, roughly, it might reduce injuries too.
Maybe this won't work, I haven't thought too much about it.

We know they won't cut back on the number of games. But even if they did, you'd still have a problem on weekends. Nobody wants an off day on Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Off days are almost always on Mondays & Thursdays.

With 2 leagues of 15, I think you've got one interleague match-up every day, all season long. If it ends up being the same number of interleague games, just spread out instead of all at once, I don't see why this would be so objectionable.

C-Dawg
06-19-2005, 06:08 PM
B) Bud, whose daughter still owes the Brew Crew IIRC, loves the revenue the Brewers rake in whenever Miller Park is infested with vermin Cub fans.

I've always been convinced this is the real reason they moved to the NL. Heck, they could schedule every Cub series to be day games only, Monday-Wednesday, and the park will be sold out every game. But to whom? In some ways its a slap in the face to their own fans to switch leagues just to draw from another team's fanbase.

EdHerman12
06-19-2005, 06:40 PM
I think another aspect of Milwaukee being in the same division as the Cardinals and Cubs is the "Beer Wars" factor of two huge sponsors in MLB Miller and Budweiser....which is a dream come true for advertisers, although I don't see how anyone can stomach that slop Anheuser Bush brews!

:gulp: Gotta be Miller Lite, or nothing! GO SOX!

shortwavez
06-20-2005, 04:45 PM
yeah that would be ugly scheduling to deal with

dcb33
06-20-2005, 05:58 PM
We know they won't cut back on the number of games. But even if they did, you'd still have a problem on weekends. Nobody wants an off day on Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Off days are almost always on Mondays & Thursdays.

With 2 leagues of 15, I think you've got one interleague match-up every day, all season long. If it ends up being the same number of interleague games, just spread out instead of all at once, I don't see why this would be so objectionable.

Season long interleague would really suck. There's no doubt it could be done, but since baseball is drawing what it was pre-strike I see no reason for interleague to continue, let alone making a season-long circus out of it.

The only plan I think we might see in the next 10-25 years would be for baseball to expand by 2 teams and realigning NFL-style with 8 divisions that have 4 teams apiece. I don't like the thought of something like that happening, but if I were a betting man I'd say that's the direction the sport will take because they could easily justify adding more playoff teams with that type of alignment.

brewcrew/chisox
06-20-2005, 07:27 PM
The warm and fuzzy feelings some people have about the Brewcrew here on WSI would IMMEDIATELY change. The Brewers/Whitesox rivalry in the 70's and 80's was one of the most intense rivalries in Baseball. My father used to work those games at County Stadium as a Milwaukee Cop, and he would tell me stories of HUGE brawls, beer thrown on him, and general bad blood. i went to my share of Brewer Whitesox games in the 80's and remember first hand the bitterness and the fights. In a strange way, it was these experiences that contributed to my becoming a Sox fan when I moved to Chicago 10 years ago.

I know I am being selfish, but I like being a Brewer fan & a Sox fan; Some of you will disagree (and I have arguments with Brewer & Sox fans from time to time about this) but the typical Sox fan is a lot like the typical Brewer fan and I love this site and the friends I've made because of it. I love the mutual hatred the teams' fans have for the Cubs(and the twins), and I like the hardworking, blue collar history of the fanbase. I like that most Sox/Brewer fans have a clue about the game and care passionately, but do not follow like lemings to the sea. I will be happy when either team puts an end to this long history of losing baseball.

so in short, no, the Brewers should not move back to the AL. My mental health would suffer too much as a result :tongue:

I do like it when the Sox play the Brewers every 3 or 4 years, and I like the exhibition games, BUT THAT"S ENOUGH!!

I would gladly take a Sox/Brewcrew WS though Although It would be interesting to see how attitudes toward my posts would probably change as a result. How fickle fans can be!

Daver
06-20-2005, 07:35 PM
The Brewers were moved to the NL because Jerry Coangelo insisted that his D-backs be a National League team, and was paying a huge franchise fee for the team, therefore an AL team had to move to the NL to even it out, and the easiest to move was the Brewers, because BUD "owned" the team.

Hangar18
06-20-2005, 07:49 PM
Hello everyone. I've recently started posting on this site, and so this discussion might've been brought up before so my apologies if it has. I've been a life long (42 yrs) White Sox fan, and I still don't understand why in the world MLB moved the Milwaukee Brewers to the NL. I can tolerate the fact that both the AL and the NL split into 3 divisions, and came up with the wild card format. Anyway I was looking at the standings the other day, and I'm wondering why can't the Brewers move back into the AL Central? The NL Central has 6 teams and that would give them 5 across the league.

I realize that it would give the AL Central 6 teams, but someone would have to move to the AL West and the logical team would be Kansas City. That would leave the Sox, Twins, Brewers, Tigers, and Indians left to fight it out....it's almost a Big Ten type set up geographically! Besides losing KC to the West wouldn't be that big of a loss would it?

I can remember going to see the Sox in the great seasons of '83, and '93 up in Milwaukee...what a great time!:gulp::cheers: :drunken: Not only that, the fans up in Milwaukee were cool to hang out with before and after. Great places to go after the game.

Would anyone else like to see the same thing? I know it'll never happen....but I really hope some day it will. :rolleyes:

GO SOX!:bandance:

In a nutshell: Pud Selig grows up a huge Milwaukee Braves fan. He is :(:
that they leave. Cubs help run out commissioner, and Jerry Reinsdorf appoints him as puppet/commissioner. Last expansion was 2 NL teams,
meaning 2 AL teams were due, Arizona and Tampa Bay. However, because
there is no REAL Commissioner, the DBacks decide they would like to be in the NL and demand that they be put there. A REAL commissioner wouldve said "Oh im sorry Mr Colangelo, You want to be in the NL? We will reserve a space for your team in the NL, we will be due to expand again in 12 years, so either wait 12 years for an NL slot, or Shut Your Piehole and go where we put you!"

However, the crooked one, Mr Selig saw an opportunity, albeit a very
conflict-of-interested opportunity, to recreate the Milwaukee Braves. Selig "Allowed" the DBacks to whine and get put in the NL, but thereby creating
an open spot in the NL and able to realize a decades-long dream of having an NL team in Milwaukee. "Milwaukee has always been a National League town" crowed Selig on the eve of their 1st opening day in the NL. "Look at all the fans and the rivalries that have been created now" said a smug Selig, overseeing the full-house at County Stadium for a weekend series
against the Cubs, a team located just 90 miles south.

Its all a sham. The DBacks are supposed to be in the AL, along with the Brewers. WWFD? What would Fay (Vincent) do? He surely wouldnt
have the Brewers martyring themselves to go the the NL thats for sure.
I do miss the rivalry.

cubhater
06-20-2005, 11:17 PM
The warm and fuzzy feelings some people have about the Brewcrew here on WSI would IMMEDIATELY change. The Brewers/Whitesox rivalry in the 70's and 80's was one of the most intense rivalries in Baseball. My father used to work those games at County Stadium as a Milwaukee Cop, and he would tell me stories of HUGE brawls, beer thrown on him, and general bad blood. i went to my share of Brewer Whitesox games in the 80's and remember first hand the bitterness and the fights. In a strange way, it was these experiences that contributed to my becoming a Sox fan when I moved to Chicago 10 years ago.



Yep, I was at one of those games at County Stadium around '93 or '94 and it put our infamous Monday and Tuesday night games to shame. I couldn't tell you how many fights I saw in the stands and in the parking lot after the game. You could see cops in golf carts with blue lights throughout the parking lot and fans cuffed in the back where golf clubs belong.