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View Full Version : Konerko says Royce is his Choice at shortstop


Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 09:34 AM
Paul Konerko is working hard to mend fences with Juan Uribe.

Konerko defended former Sox teammate Royce Clayton, whose two miscues for Arizona fueled a 10-run sixth inning Wednesday.

"He's the best shortstop I ever played with, period," Konerko said. "No one is even close to him. I think the wetness of the ball had something to do with [the throwing error]."

Link (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050616soxbits,1,6755119.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

Any aPaulogists or FOGIDPK care to defend this great clubhouse chemistry-building comment?
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 09:36 AM
Paul Konerko is working hard to mend fences with Juan Uribe.



Link (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050616soxbits,1,6755119.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

Any aPaulogists or FOGIDPK care to defend this great clubhouse chemistry-building comment?
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Nice, Paulie! Now why don't you go rip one of your fellow players to even things up...Oh, right! You already did!

Rocky Soprano
06-17-2005, 09:36 AM
Does Konerko know how to shut his mouth?

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 09:38 AM
oh GOD. Just when I'd forgotten about this stupid mother****er's bull**** comment about Uribe.

Paulie: Go away. You can take your ****ing 17 homeruns and 11 game hitting streak. I'm sick of your ****.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 09:38 AM
Evidently not. He just hit a big three-run homer in Wednesday's win, and generally has hit much better than he did during his awful slump, so frankly I'm quite surprised it's taken him this long to chirp.

Paul Konerko = :dtroll:

rdwj
06-17-2005, 09:40 AM
I think even Juan Uribe knows he's not as good of a shortstop as Clayton. Not a big deal

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 09:40 AM
Evidently not. He just hit a big three-run homer in Wednesday's win, and generally has hit much better than he did during his awful slump, so frankly I'm quite surprised it's taken him this long to chirp.

Paul Konerko = :dtroll:

You've got that right. As PHG has pointed out on numerous occasions, whenever Paulie starts going well, the **** starts flying out of his mouth.

Baby Fisk
06-17-2005, 09:42 AM
I predict double tomatoes, minimum.

Hey Paulie: ****! :angry:

:hitless
"Ha ha, you suckaz know I'm the best you ever had. Yo own teammates bow before me. I am the greatest!"

:hurt
*breathing*

:hitless
"Remember, I am the greatest, aight?!"

:hurt
*angrily tightens his grip on the bat in his hands*

:hitless
"Peace out, fools. You suck. Ha ha..."

*trys to make it look like he's not running away scared*

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 09:48 AM
Konerko is a Grade 1 idiot, and I guarantee his teammates are tired of his media whoring and grandstanding, too. And as Frater already noted, he starts chirping once his ungodly slumps are over.

Slump = Konerko hang dog

Streak = Konerko diarrhea mouth

Yeah, he's the guy I want on my team!
:kukoo:

If Konerko can't do anything but talk down his own shortstop while talking up a worthless piece of **** who got cut from the team for pouting on the bench with sneakers on his feet during a game, he needs to be gone just like Royce.

Meanwhile GIDPauleee, here's a WSI gift shop you ought to enjoy. Hell, go on a major spending spree, you dope.

Royce the Choice Gear! (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/RoyceChoice/roycechoice.htm)

Jerko
06-17-2005, 09:54 AM
I saw a blurb in SI with Rowand. They asked him what he would do if he were commissioner for a day. His answer: "Get rid of the designated hitter". I hope these guys go back "under the radar" soon with some of these comments.

harwar
06-17-2005, 10:00 AM
I'm not sure if Konerko has anything against Uribe or if hes' just really stupid.
At any rate,this guy could go from a huge favorite among the hard-core fan base to a guy that gets booed quite often.
Some of these guys should do their talking to the bartenders and stay away from the media.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:01 AM
You've got that right. As PHG has pointed out on numerous occasions, whenever Paulie starts going well, the **** starts flying out of his mouth.

Quick, get the Imodium AD for Paulie's oral diarrhea!

The worst part is that the media knows Paulie is good for some choice comments (no pun intended) whenever he starts hitting the ball well. So, they seek him out and I'm sure they try to bait him into doing what he apparently does best: provide them with controversial space-filling fodder by either directly criticizing his teammates or damning them with back-handed "compliments."

Headline grabbing mediots like "Tailgunner" Joe Cowley, Jay Moronotti's worker bees and other fine representatives of the human race who occupy positions in sports media deliberately seek out Paulie and try to bait him... I know this because I work every day with professional big-city sports journalists who have told me they do this very same thing and/or work with colleagues and competitors who do it in order to "get the scoop."

To be perfectly clear, Lip, hsnterprize and others in the field, I'm not saying you guys personally are guilty of this, or that all sports reporters do it either. However, I'm certain you folks know plenty of whorish colleagues who insert themselves into the story and "manufacture news" in order to get a juicy scoop.


I have a hunch (and it's nothing more) that there are "factions" in the Sox clubhouse, and we've just not heard about them because the Sox have been winning. (Thank goodness!) Were there not some reports about Frank giving Uribe advice about his swing? Hmmm. Plus, hasn't Rowand said nice things about Frank as a teammate? Hmmm. I wonder if Konerko is a just bit frosted that Frank is back, hitting very well, getting props from his teammates as a good guy and getting loud ovations from the fans. And so rather than calling out Frank (yet, anyway), he's either directly calling out or giving back-handed "compliments" to a member of Frank's circle. Hmmm.

Madvora
06-17-2005, 10:03 AM
I don't get it. What's the contoversy and all this anger about?
I'm aware of what he said about Uribe, but this has nothing to do with that. I didn't even think that was a big deal.
So what, he thinks Royce is good.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 10:03 AM
i think you guys take some things said a little too much to heart.

Deadguy
06-17-2005, 10:11 AM
I think even Juan Uribe knows he's not as good of a shortstop as Clayton. Not a big deal

Who cares if he does know that or not (you're just inferring here, you can't read Uribe's mind).

Why does Paul K(ingman)onerko feel the need to defend a guy like Royce anyway? Who gives a damn about Royce's feelings? He screwed up royally in the last game.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:12 AM
If Konerko can't do anything but talk down his own shortstop while talking up a worthless piece of **** who got cut from the team for pouting on the bench with sneakers on his feet during a game, he needs to be gone just like Royce.

Geroge, you are the one who first pointed out Konerko's "mouth/prodcution equation" to me. You are right that Konerko is a damned fool. This would have been a perfect opportunity for him to say something like:

"I enjoyed playing with Royce. He is a good defensive shortstop and didn't deserve all the criticism he got. I'm sure his throwing errors on Wednesday were due to a wet ball. Still, I wouldn't trade any of my teammates this year for anyone I've played with in the past. I'd go to war with guys like Frank, Uribe, Rowand, Everett, Mark and all the rest of the guys. We've got something special going on here and everyone's a big part of it. Our guys just won't quit."

In that case he still would have been able to say something nice about Royce, while showing solidarity with his teammates this year AND making sure to say something nice about Uribe.

But instead, he had to open his mouth and let the feces fly....

Konerko = :troll

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:15 AM
I think even Juan Uribe knows he's not as good of a shortstop as Clayton. Not a big deal

Wow. Just wow. :nuts:

infohawk
06-17-2005, 10:19 AM
I don't get it. What's the contoversy and all this anger about?
I'm aware of what he said about Uribe, but this has nothing to do with that. I didn't even think that was a big deal.
So what, he thinks Royce is good.

I agree. I don't see how this is a big deal. He was praising Royce, not taking a shot at Uribe. Its not like he said, "Royce Clayton was the only good shortstop I've ever played with." Royce is, in fact, one of the premier defensive shortstops in the game.

ma_deuce
06-17-2005, 10:24 AM
I think even Juan Uribe knows he's not as good of a shortstop as Clayton.

Just because something is true does not mean it should be said. Frank Thomas doesn't go around saying he was a much better first baseman than Pauly (which he is). The entire team doesn't go around saying how much faster they are than Pauly (which they are). Its not good for the team. And the last time I checked, the Choice is not a White Sox anymore.

Deuce

Jurr
06-17-2005, 10:32 AM
Though I do agree it could've been worded a LOT better, I don't think Paulie's comment will piss too many people off. You see this stuff all the time with veteran guys on other teams. "Yeah...Paul Molitor was the best hitter I'd ever seen." or "Nobody comes close to Roberto Alomar at second." Nobody says, "Hey...I'm on your team..don't you think I am the best???"

Royce Clayton does have a lot of notoriety for his glove. I think that's what PK was getting at.

Though, I do agree.......****, Paulie.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:35 AM
I agree. I don't see how this is a big deal. He was praising Royce, not taking a shot at Uribe. Its not like he said, "Royce Clayton was the only good shortstop I've ever played with." Royce is, in fact, one of the premier defensive shortstops in the game.

If this was just a random comment from, say, Joe Crede, it might not be a big deal. If Konerko didn't already have a history of diarrhea mouth or of criticizing Uribe's deke of Derrek Lee, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. If Paulie's aPaulogists and FOGDIPK didn't consistely praise him as a "clubhouse leader" and "great teammate" who was "vital to team chemistry," it wouldn't be a big deal.

But combine this with his history of running his mouth when he actually does produce (interrupted by silent epochs when he is terrible), his recent history of criticizing Uribe, his massive salary, his base-clogging inability to score from second on a single or from first on a double, and his aPaulogists' undying love for him and desire to defend him at every turn (in some cases for reasons that have nothing to do with baseball as PHG and kittle42 can attest), and we have the recipe for a guy who deserves utter condemnation for his troll-ish idiocy and one-tool ability.

I really don't know which is worse: his prolonged slumps of utter garbage at the plate, or his "hot streaks" when he runs his mouth. Honestly, I'd rather the Sox do without, thank you very much.

Maybe I'm being too hard on him. He really does have more than one tool: pull hitting for power and running his mouth. Nah, on second thought, he's just a tool.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 10:36 AM
Royce is, in fact, one of the premier defensive shortstops in the game.

:roflmao:

You know why Konerko probably made Royce his Choice? Because GIDPauleee could always count on Royce to send over one of those lazy, easy to catch arched throws across the diamond.

And what about all those plays where the Choice needed to throw a laser beam to get the hitter at first base? GIDPauleee could count on the Choice to put those balls in his pocket. The Choice wouldn't even attempt the throw, the better to preserve his "Greatest Fielding Percentage record that will probably last forever."

Royce's range SUCKS! His last year with the Sox he was playing so far up the middle, he was practically backing up the pitcher. Forget about him EVER going in the hole to make a play. If he was lucky enough to knock it down (and he usually wasn't), he would just put the ball in his pocket... no error of course -- BECAUSE HE NEVER EVEN TRIED!!!

Clayton sucked. Factoring in his slumps and mouth, Konerko might suck even worse.

:cool:

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 10:40 AM
If this was just a random comment from, say, Joe Crede, it might not be a big deal. If Konerko didn't already have a history of diarrhea mouth or of criticizing Uribe's deke of Derrek Lee, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. If Paulie's aPaulogists and FOGDIPK didn't consistely praise him as a "clubhouse leader" and "great teammate" who was "vital to team chemistry," it wouldn't be a big deal.

But combine this with his history of running his mouth when he actually does produce (interrupted by silent epochs when he is terrible), his recent history of criticizing Uribe, his massive salary, his base-clogging inability to score from second on a single or from first on a double, and his aPaulogists' undying love for him and desire to defend him at every turn (in some cases for reasons that have nothing to do with baseball as PHG and kittle42 can attest), and we have the recipe for a guy who deserves utter condemnation for his troll-ish idiocy and one-tool ability.

I really don't know which is worse: his prolonged slumps of utter garbage at the plate, or his "hot streaks" when he runs his mouth. Honestly, I'd rather the Sox do without, thank you very much.

Maybe I'm being too hard on him. He really does have more than one tool: pull hitting for power and running his mouth. Nah, on second thought, he's just a tool.

It's not just that - it's not just PRAISING royce - it's saying that he was the BEST ss he played with. That's a chip at Jose and Uribe both of whom are superior defensive shortstops to Royce "Ryne Sandberg" Clayton. Yes, that's right - you heard me IDIOTS IN THIS THREAD - SUPERIOR to Royce.

Good God. I bet you believe Nomar and Jeter are great defensive SS's too.

Get out of town.

Brian26
06-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Konerko is really starting to annoy me.

Jurr
06-17-2005, 10:41 AM
:roflmao:

You know why Konerko probably made Royce his Choice? Because GIDPauleee could always count on Royce to send over one of those lazy, easy to catch arched throws across the diamond.

And what about all those plays where the Choice needed to throw a laser beam to get the hitter at first base? GIDPauleee could count on the Choice to put those balls in his pocket. The Choice wouldn't even attempt the throw, the better to preserve his "Greatest Fielding Percentage record that will probably last forever."

Royce's range SUCKS! His last year with the Sox he was playing so far up the middle, he was practically backing up the pitcher. Forget about him EVER going in the hole to make a play. If he was lucky enough to knock it down (and he usually wasn't), he would just put the ball in his pocket... no error of course -- BECAUSE HE NEVER EVEN TRIED!!!

Clayton sucked. Factoring in his slumps and mouth, Konerko might suck even worse.

:cool:
Damn..that is VERY true. He used to put a LOT of balls in his pocket. His fielding % was great. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...coincidence? I think not.

rdwj
06-17-2005, 10:43 AM
Why does Paul K(ingman)onerko feel the need to defend a guy like Royce anyway? Who gives a damn about Royce's feelings? He screwed up royally in the last game.

They were former teammates and may very well still be friends.

As far as screwing up the game - that happens to the best of them.

And everyone is reading WAY too much into this. Saying Royce is a great shortstop is not an insult to Uribe. Juan is a nice player, but he doesn't have the tools of Clayton.

Because he plays for the Sox, should he be bound to say that our guys are the very best at every position? Personally, I don't think so.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:45 AM
Though I do agree it could've been worded a LOT better, I don't think Paulie's comment will piss too many people off. You see this stuff all the time with veteran guys on other teams. "Yeah...Paul Molitor was the best hitter I'd ever seen." or "Nobody comes close to Roberto Alomar at second." Nobody says, "Hey...I'm on your team..don't you think I am the best???"

Royce Clayton does have a lot of notoriety for his glove. I think that's what PK was getting at.

Though, I do agree.......****, Paulie.

Paul Molitor is a Hall of Famer, for crying out loud!

I used to think Royce was the "Choice" at shortstop. But WSI-ers who know far more about baseball than me pointed out that Clayton may not make many errors, but has limited range even when compared to "butchers" like Valentin.

If Konerko had any brains at all, he would know that the left side of the Sox infield this year is the best it's been since he's been with the team. That last time the Sox had a SS-3B combo this good was when Ventura and Guillen were in their prime in the early 90s. He ought to know that it's been Crede and Uribe who have started a whole lot of double plays to get Sox pitchers out of jams. Maybe Clayton will make fewer errors in a season, but he gets to far fewer balls than Uribe and therefore doesn't prevent as many hits (and therefore runs) as Uribe does.

But then again, when he called out Uribe for deke-ing Derrek Lee, Paulie proved that trying to prevent the opponent from scoring runs isn't all that important to him.

Maybe Paulie prefers Royce's softer tosses because Uribe's cannon shots give him stingers in his glove hand, making it much harder for him to adjust the velcro of his batting gloves between pitches when he's up to bat.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 10:46 AM
Damn..that is VERY true. He used to put a LOT of balls in his pocket. His fielding % was great. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...coincidence? I think not.

Most infield errors are handed out for throwing miscues, not fielding ones. The ball practically has to bounce between an infielder's legs before the official scorer will give him an error. Nobody knew it better than the guy with "The Greatest Fielding Percentage record that will probably last forever."

Ah, but even now he still has his defenders... no doubt layabouts who wear sneakers on the bench because they, too, are pouting over not starting.

:roflmao:

:hitless
"You start cutting guys for stuff like that and lots of guys are gonna be gone."
:roflmao:

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:47 AM
Here, let me fix this for you:

Juan is a nice player, but he's not a tool like Clayton.

Jurr
06-17-2005, 10:48 AM
Paul Molitor is a Hall of Famer, for crying out loud!

I used to think Royce was the "Choice" at shortstop. But WSI-ers who know far more about baseball than me pointed out that Clayton may not make many errors, but has limited range even when compared to "butchers" like Valentin.

If Konerko had any brains at all, he would know that the left side of the Sox infield this year is the best it's been since he's been with the team. That last time the Sox had a SS-3B combo this good was when Ventura and Guillen were in their prime in the early 90s. He ought to know that it's been Crede and Uribe who have started a whole lot of double plays to get Sox pitchers out of jams. Maybe Clayton will make fewer errors in a season, but he gets to far fewer balls than Uribe and therefore doesn't prevent as many hits (and therefore runs) as Uribe does.

But then again, when he called out Uribe for deke-ing Derrek Lee, Paulie proved that trying to prevent the opponent from scoring runs isn't all that important to him.

Maybe Paulie prefers Royce's softer tosses because Uribe's cannon shots give him stingers in his glove hand, making it much harder for him to adjust the velcro of his batting gloves between pitches when he's up to bat.
Yeah..it IS true. I had to think back a little, and it became much clearer. Royce reminds one of Carlos Lee. Good fielding percentage..makes the plays around him....doesn't friggin' TRY at the ones where a possible error is at stake. He definitely has little going on in his sac, if you get my drift.

Chez
06-17-2005, 10:48 AM
This is insane. People want to lynch and or trade Konerko (who leads the team in homers, RBI and runs scored) because he said Clayton was the best defensive shortstop he's played with?! Not only was Konerko's statement simply his opinion (which he's entitled to), but likely came in response to some reporter's question trying to get Konerko to dump on Clayton after the two misplays Clayton made in the 6th. I read it more as Konerko defending Clayton rather than ripping Uribe. C'mon. Enough already -- this is really no big deal.

BaseballTonyght
06-17-2005, 10:50 AM
I don't get it. What's the contoversy and all this anger about?
I'm aware of what he said about Uribe, but this has nothing to do with that. I didn't even think that was a big deal.
So what, he thinks Royce is good.

Don't fret, this is just what goes on around here - people blow everything out of proportion. It is the true to form fanatical nature of this message board. Hey, a little passion never hurt anyone :smile:.

wdelaney72
06-17-2005, 10:51 AM
Maybe Paulie prefers Royce's softer tosses because Uribe's cannon shots give him stingers in his glove hand, making it much harder for him to adjust the velcro of his batting gloves between pitches when he's up to bat.

LOL!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/wdelaney72/CaddyshackCarl.bmp"He got all of that one!"

Jurr
06-17-2005, 10:53 AM
This is insane. People want to lynch and or trade Konerko (who leads the team in homers, RBI and runs scored) because he said Clayton was the best defensive shortstop he's played with?! Not only was Konerko's statement simply his opinion (which he's entitled to), but likely came in response to some reporter's question trying to get Konerko to dump on Clayton after the two misplays Clayton made in the 6th. I read it more as Konerko defending Clayton rather than ripping Uribe. C'mon. Enough already -- this is really no big deal.
Well..Paulie's got this little problem.....I'll illustrate.

Replace the guy shown here with Paul Konerko....
:chunks Replace the fluid with a dark brown, smelly butt mud.

Clear?

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 10:57 AM
Damn..that is VERY true. He used to put a LOT of balls in his pocket. His fielding % was great. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...coincidence? I think not.

Did you notice how he avoided a second error the other night with Dye on third. He held on to the ball until he couldn't throw it. No hit. No error. Score it FC.

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 10:58 AM
They were former teammates and may very well still be friends.

As far as screwing up the game - that happens to the best of them.

And everyone is reading WAY too much into this. Saying Royce is a great shortstop is not an insult to Uribe. Juan is a nice player, but he doesn't have the tools of Clayton.

Because he plays for the Sox, should he be bound to say that our guys are the very best at every position? Personally, I don't think so.

Yeah, that could be true. While Konerko was busy trashing Thomas, Clayton was busy doing something else with Thomas's ex.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 11:01 AM
This is insane. People want to lynch and or trade Konerko (who leads the team in homers, RBI and runs scored) because he said Clayton was the best defensive shortstop he's played with?! Not only was Konerko's statement simply his opinion (which he's entitled to), but likely came in response to some reporter's question trying to get Konerko to dump on Clayton after the two misplays Clayton made in the 6th. I read it more as Konerko defending Clayton rather than ripping Uribe. C'mon. Enough already -- this is really no big deal.

Why does Paulie feel it necessary to defend a player on the other team? This is the SECOND time he's done so in the media this year.

Also, yes he is entitled to his opinion. And my opinion of him is that he's crapped on his teammates one time too many and needs to be traded. Let some other team deal with his oral diarrhea and his prolonged slumps.

Paulie is a tool with one tool: pull hitting for power. Many of his singles come from blooping a ducksnort into right-center because he just missed hitting a screamer down the 3B line. He hits his fair share of home runs and leads the team in runs scored because he's taken walks. IMHO, many of his walks are of the "unintentional" intentional variety. Opposing pitchers know he can hit for power and therefore have pitched around him. Unfortunately, rather than taking more walks, he's swung at some inopportune times and lined or grounded into rally-killing double plays.

Moreover, even when he does take walks, he clogs the bases. It takes three hits/walks to score him when he's on first. He can't score from first on a double. He can't score from second on a single. Even gimpy Frank Thomas can outrun him. Most of the runs he's scored have come on his own homers or when someone behind him has hit a home run, or when the Sox have gotten really lucky to string together a bunch of hits and/or walks. Any other player who hits cleanup on the Sox would have a similar number of runs and RBIs even if they didn't have as many home runs.

Because he is so slow, opposing pitchers like their odds of getting out of the inning unscathed by putting him on base and therefore throw him garbage.

BedfordChisox
06-17-2005, 11:01 AM
Hey Frater,

This is unbelievable. I spent about an hour defending Konerko in front of you at Ameriquest, and then I read this. This is just damn inappropriate, and it's not defensible. Between this comment, and the comments about Juan deking the Flub baserunner, you have to think Paul has some kind of problem with Juan. Personally, I think Juan is the best "entire package" shortstop we've had since Ozzie... and he's a better power hitter than Ozzie ever was.

Speaking of clubhouse cancers, wasn't Royce widely regarded as one? Geez louise, of all the guys to defend at the detriment of your fellow players.

Paulie: Shut your freaking mouth and play.

I will now renounce my membership in the FOGDIPK, and take my starstrick allegiances over to the other corner of the infield. Please welcome the newest member of the Friends of Joe Crede club.

Frater - When we hook up again at Ameriquest in late August, and if I start frothing at the mouth about defending Paul, just tell me to go drink another beer. It's what I do best anyway.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 11:03 AM
Well..Paulie's got this little problem.....I'll illustrate.

Replace the guy shown here with Paul Konerko....
:chunks Replace the fluid with a dark brown, smelly butt mud.

Clear?

:roflmao::rolling:

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 11:03 AM
Don't fret, this is just what goes on around here - people blow everything out of proportion. It is the true to form fanatical nature of this message board. Hey, a little passion never hurt anyone :smile:.


I've only been here a few months, but i definitely have noticed this. blow losses out of proportion, blow wins out of proportion, and blow comments out of proportion.


Oh well, it's still the best sox chat site anywhere, and there are some damn good posters here.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 11:13 AM
Hey Frater,

This is unbelievable. I spent about an hour defending Konerko in front of you at Ameriquest, and then I read this. This is just damn inappropriate, and it's not defensible. Between this comment, and the comments about Juan deking the Flub baserunner, you have to think Paul has some kind of problem with Juan. Personally, I think Juan is the best "entire package" shortstop we've had since Ozzie... and he's a better power hitter than Ozzie ever was.

Speaking of clubhouse cancers, wasn't Royce widely regarded as one? Geez louise, of all the guys to defend at the detriment of your fellow players.

Paulie: Shut your freaking mouth and play.

I will now renounce my membership in the FOGDIPK, and take my starstrick allegiances over to the other corner of the infield. Please welcome the newest member of the Friends of Joe Crede club.

Frater - When we hook up again at Ameriquest in late August, and if I start frothing at the mouth about defending Paul, just tell me to go drink another beer. It's what I do best anyway.

:roflmao::rolling:

Bedford,

Truth be told, I really want Konerko to do well. I don't hate any player who is on the Sox. I just want him to produce at a level representative of what he is paid and shut his pie hole as well. You weren't really "defending" Konerko per se, and even though it was a "loaded" conversation, you still made valid points with which I still agree.

Bedford and I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, so we both know about all the crap Royce Clayton pulled when he a member of the Rangers. He is Juan Gonzalez's equal when it comes to clubhouse demeanor. So for Paulie to go out of his way to talk up his "Choice," really smacks of oral diarrhea, or at the very least a severe case of cerebral flatulence.

By the way, I agree that Juan is the best "total package" at short, and welcome to Crede's Crew, Bedford!

:bandance:

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 11:13 AM
Yeah, that could be true. While Konerko was busy trashing Thomas, Clayton was busy doing something else with Thomas's ex.

Okay, this is news to me. Royce and Frank's ex were an item?
:?: :o: :redface: :tongue:

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 11:14 AM
I've only been here a few months, but i definitely have noticed this. blow losses out of proportion, blow wins out of proportion, and blow comments out of proportion.


Oh well, it's still the best sox chat site anywhere, and there are some damn good posters here.

or maybe it's when a ****ing ******* like paul konerko runs his "educated" mouth about things he is proving he doesn't know a goddamn thing about ("unwritten rules in baseball" "royce is the best shortstop i ever played with") he WILL get called out by people who know a lot more than he does.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 11:15 AM
Did you notice how he avoided a second error the other night with Dye on third. He held on to the ball until he couldn't throw it. No hit. No error. Score it FC.

Royce doesn't deserve HOF induction, but an Academy Award for lifetime achievement may be in order.
:roflmao:

mweflen
06-17-2005, 11:18 AM
Good thing Juanie doesn't really understand english or spanish very well (according to his recent profile) :smile:

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 11:22 AM
Speaking of clubhouse cancers, wasn't Royce widely regarded as one? Geez louise, of all the guys to defend at the detriment of your fellow players. Yes, The Choice has a loooong history as a clubhouse cancer. Is it any wonder he's so tight with Paulie? :rolleyes:

It's nice to see the reappearance of the fielding percentage obsessed Friends of Buddy Lee, the original FO's.

rdwj
06-17-2005, 11:24 AM
... he WILL get called out by people who know a lot more than he does.

Like you? :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 11:25 AM
Okay, this is news to me. Royce and Frank's ex were an item?
:?: :o: :redface: :tongue:

Yes, they were.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 11:27 AM
or maybe it's when a ****ing ******* like paul konerko runs his "educated" mouth about things he is proving he doesn't know a goddamn thing about ("unwritten rules in baseball" "royce is the best shortstop i ever played with") he WILL get called out by people who know a lot more than he does.

or maybe half you guys should stop reading into things that aren't there.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 11:30 AM
Yes, they were.

[wild speculation] Wow. This makes me think it's even more likely there are pro-Frank factions in the Sox clubhouse, and that Konerko doesn't like it one bit. What better way to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm.[/wild speculation]

Again, Konerko = :dtroll:

EDIT: I've amended this post to demonstrate that I'm just wildly speculating based on evidence available to me. This is no worse than the aPaulogists and FOGIDPK (and the fans of The Choice) who speculate, despite his patently stupid public comments about his own teammates, that Konerko is a "great teammate" and "clubhouse leader."

mweflen
06-17-2005, 11:32 AM
Maybe Troy Glaus is available for trade? Can he play 1B? I overheard KW on his cellphone at the airport...

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 11:32 AM
or maybe half you guys should stop reading into things that aren't there.

Royce Clayton is a sore subject around WSI from YEARS before you were here. Konerko is following in his footsteps.

Put the two together ----> dynamite.

Do a few searches of old WSI threads and you'll understand this better. As for your current problem not understanding why this is true, just plead ignorance. You haven't a clue.
:cool:

SoxFanTillDeath
06-17-2005, 11:35 AM
Wow. This makes me think it's even more likely there are pro-Frank factions in the Sox clubhouse, and that Konerko doesn't like it one bit. What better way to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm.

Again, Konerko = :dtroll:

Do you believe that dinosaurs never existed and that we never landed on the moon too? Honestly, do you really think that Konerko sits there and figures out ways to attack Frank publicly without ever mentioning his name? Sure, the guy makes stupid comments, but to actually believe that is crazy in itself.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 11:39 AM
Royce Clayton is a sore subject around WSI from YEARS before you were here. Konerko is following in his footsteps.

Put the two together ----> dynamite.

Do a few searches of old WSI threads and you'll understand this better. As for your current problem not understanding why this is true, just plead ignorance. You haven't a clue.
:cool:

I'll be sure to do that. No, not search old WSI threads, but plead ignorance. Because I'm just that ignorant. Yes, I promise, I really am.



Next time I'll try to fit in and overreact to everything.

SoxFanTillDeath
06-17-2005, 11:39 AM
Maybe Troy Glaus is available for trade? Can he play 1B? I overheard KW on his cellphone at the airport...

He he...nice touch.

Does anyone know how management feels about Paulie? I always thought that he was a really nice guy and that he was well-liked throughout the organization. If he's not, then who's gonna play 1B in the future? Ross Gload? I say trade Konerko & Crede & a prospect (not Sweeney, Anderson, or McCarthy) for Chavez and teach Crazy Carl how to play 1B. Then you have Thomas, Chavez, and Carl instead of Thomas/Carl, Konerko, and Crede.

rdwj
06-17-2005, 11:43 AM
Next time I'll try to fit in and overreact to everything.

:kneeslap:

mweflen
06-17-2005, 11:58 AM
I wonder if the delay on an extension has anything to do with management's changing attitude towards GIDPK.

On the one hand, he has publicly stated he'll be a cheap and easy re-sign - which must be music to JR and KW's ears.

OTOH, he's not really earning his 8.75 mil now, and certainly wouldn't be worth the same over an extended period. Plus, it sure seems like he is evolving into a nice big cancerous growth, at least in the media and in what is reported to us .It is very hard to judge these things as a fan - as Crazy Carl says, if the media reports lies or distortions to us, that's what the fans will spout back... so I try hard not to buy into "clubhouse" stories.

If we could get him for 8 mil a year and he could hit .260 with 40 dingers and 60 GIDPs, I guess that might be worth it. I'm so torn on Paulie. He is absolute murder to watch some times, but 45 RBI are 45 RBI.

JoseCanseco6969
06-17-2005, 11:58 AM
Wow. Just wow. :nuts:

I'm sure he means at defense, which is true. Although the choice might be a little better at defense, I'd much rather have a Uribe at SS. Guys relax about PK, you all know he has a big mouth so this shouldnt come as a shock. He has taken the reins from big frank. I dont really care if PK likes the choice or not as long as he keeps hitting and helping us win. I really dont think of him as a cancer at all and his attitude has always been to do whatever it takes to win. Foot in mouth once in a while, hey...we let Frank get away with worse. I'm used to it.

JoseCanseco6969
06-17-2005, 12:01 PM
Wow. This makes me think it's even more likely there are pro-Frank factions in the Sox clubhouse, and that Konerko doesn't like it one bit. What better way to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm.

Again, Konerko = :dtroll:

Yes we get it, you hate PK. How many time do you need to rehash it?? Also the Frank comments are just out of line with no merit at all. You need some xanax to help you with your anxiety problems. Geezzzz!

kittle42
06-17-2005, 12:04 PM
I loooooooove the Konerko venom on this site.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 12:05 PM
Royce doesn't deserve HOF induction, but an Academy Award for lifetime achievement may be in order.

Presented by Paul Konerko.... with Jerry Manuel as the emcee.

http://www.sportsfrog.com/jerrymanuel.jpg
And now, to present the lifetime achievement award for impersonating a Gold-Glove shortstop, clubhouse leader Paul Konerko....

http://www.sportsfrog.com/jerrymanuel.jpg

Ummm, Paul Konerko!

http://www.sportsfrog.com/jerrymanuel.jpg

Ahh... I've been told Paulie's been detained in the men's room...something about having to wash his face.... hey, here he is! Paul Konerko! Paulie, didn't I tell you to wipe off all the chocolate ice cream from your lips when we went out for tinkering and TCBY last night?

:walnuts

<wipes mouth full of brown stains with sleeve>
Thanks, Jerry. Hey everybody, did you hear the one about the shortstop and the Cubs game?

<crickets>

:walnuts
Ah, yes, tough crowd. Hey, where's my fan club?

:hurt
Oh, you mean the FOGIDPK and the aPaulogists? They're busy trolling WSI right now...

:walnuts
Well then. I never! In any case, the lifetime achievement award for acting in the role of shortstop goes to Royce the Choice Clayton. Royce? Royce? Where are you, buddy?

:sahaf (http://misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)
WSI is full of lies. The Choice has more important things to do, like getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. Pay no attention to last Wednesday's game in Chicago. The ball was wet, undoubtedly caused by his sworn enemies who had the audacity to marry and divorce women who loved The Choice and "The Thong Song" from the beginning.


:hawk
And Paulie adjusts the velcro on his batting glove, digs in, waits for the pitch, swings at a fastball over the plate and hits a sharp grounder to the third baseman, who throws to second to get Sahaf, who throws out Paulie by a mile at first.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 12:10 PM
I loooooooove the Konerko venom on this site.If GIDPK were not backstabbing his teammates in the press with some frequency you would hear nothing from me other than an occasional plate tectonics reference. What is shocking is the Apaulogists were once kind of amusing, more like the Friends of Crash than anything. However, they have been waxing ever more venemous and now appear to be forming an unholy alliance with the Friends of Buddy Lee (who were mistakenly believed to be extinct). Nothing good can come of this cancerous union. :o:

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:10 PM
My God, did you actually take the time to write that?

Flight #24
06-17-2005, 12:11 PM
or maybe half you guys should stop reading into things that aren't there.

You miss the point. Allow me to summarize...

- Paul Konerko is a supposed "offensive cornerstone"....who goes into extended slumps

- Paul Konerko is a supposed "run producer".....who hits <.250 with RISP but gets RBIs anyway because of the guys in front of him

- Paul Konerko is a "team leader".....who glibly slams teammates while passionately defending guys on other teams, including slamming the best player in team history for sitting out with a legitimate injury!!!!

The problem isn't what Paul Konerko is, it's what his defenders and the media make him out to be. What he is is a good but not great offensive player, a guy with power but weaknesses in the areas of average, consistency, and obviously speed. He's a complementary player, not a core one. And he's NOT a team leader. That would be a guy who HELPS teammates, and sees his responsibility with the media as DEFENDING them regardless of what the situation is.

However, he's media-friendly and quick with a quote, especially when he hits. So he's made out to be a lot more.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:12 PM
You miss the point. Allow me to summarize...

- Paul Konerko is a supposed "offensive cornerstone"....who goes into extended slumps

- Paul Konerko is a supposed "run producer".....who hits <.250 with RISP but gets RBIs anyway because of the guys in front of him

- Paul Konerko is a "team leader".....who glibly slams teammates while passionately defending guys on other teams, including slamming the best player in team history for sitting out with a legitimate injury!!!!

The problem isn't what Paul Konerko is, it's what his defenders and the media make him out to be. What he is is a good but not great offensive player, a guy with power but weaknesses in the areas of average, consistency, and obviously speed. He's a complementary player, not a core one. And he's NOT a team leader. That would be a guy who HELPS teammates, and sees his responsibility with the media as DEFENDING them regardless of what the situation is.

However, he's media-friendly and quick with a quote, especially when he hits. So he's made out to be a lot more.


I've already conceded that I'm going to fit in and overreact to everything. what more do you want from me?

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 12:13 PM
I've already conceded that I'm going to fit in and overreact to everything. what more do you want from me?Silence would be nice. :D:

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:15 PM
Silence would be nice. :D:


Oh my God, I can't believe you just said that. We should trade you along with a poster to be named later. The season's going down the tubes. Hell is freezing over.


what? I'm working hard at this overreaction thing.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 12:17 PM
Oh my God, I can't believe you just said that. We should trade you along with a poster to be named later. The season's going down the tubes. Hell is freezing over.


what? I'm working hard at this overreaction thing.

:hawk
And the 0-2 pitch....

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 12:18 PM
Oh my God, I can't believe you just said that. We should trade you along with a poster to be named later. The season's going down the tubes. Hell is freezing over.


what? I'm working hard at this overreaction thing.Are you insane? You're sitting here all wound up and asked what more we could want from you. So I replied. And as somebody who has led the battle against Dark Clouds and Chicken Littles for years, I think you are seriously attacking the wrong person. I would advise getting a grip.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:20 PM
Are you insane? You're sitting here all wound up and asked what more we could want from you. So I replied. And as somebody who has led the battle against Dark Clouds and Chicken Littles for years, I think you are seriously attacking the wrong person. I would advise getting a grip.


Do you guys really need blue to see sarcasm. That's all I do is sarcasm. Maybe i'll put a footnote in my signature.

Palehose13
06-17-2005, 12:21 PM
I'll be sure to do that. No, not search old WSI threads, but plead ignorance. Because I'm just that ignorant. Yes, I promise, I really am.


Yes, you are. You haven't been here that long and you don't know the history behind this. Do you even know what ignorant means?

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:22 PM
Yes, you are. You haven't been here that long and you don't know the history behind this. Do you even know what ignorant means?

what? Ig-no-no-no-rant? who?

Jerko
06-17-2005, 12:27 PM
It started out ok, but alas,

http://webpages.charter.net/dexerion/ThisThreadSucks.gif

Uncle_Patrick
06-17-2005, 12:28 PM
Do you guys really need blue to see sarcasm. That's all I do is sarcasm. Maybe i'll put a footnote in my signature.

Not blue. Teal.

SoxFanTillDeath
06-17-2005, 12:28 PM
:hijacked:

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:33 PM
Not blue. Teal.

As mostly males here there should be like 9 colors in our vocabulary. black, white, brown, green, red, orange, blue, purple, yellow. Your basic six color chart, added black white and brown.

screw mauve and pumpkin.

Flight #24
06-17-2005, 12:35 PM
I've already conceded that I'm going to fit in and overreact to everything. what more do you want from me?

Huh? no one's saying to dump Konerko, no one's saying to cut Konerko. What people are saying is that he's not this immensely valuable tema player that needs to be resigned at a similar or greater salary. This is where knowing some of the history involved would come in handy as this is pretty much a continuation of past discussions that apparently you are not familiar with.

And railing at mods about their overreactions is not a great way to start off.

whitesoxfan
06-17-2005, 12:38 PM
As mostly males here there should be like 9 colors in our vocabulary. black, white, brown, green, red, orange, blue, purple, yellow. Your basic six color chart, added black white and brown.

screw mauve and pumpkin.

right...

anyway, does Paulie really not want to come back with the Sox next year or what? I'm hating this guy's attitude more and more each day. How can some of you say that Clayton is better then Uribe? There's no comparison. Royce was terrible when he was here and he's been terrible ever since. Why can't Paulie stick up for our guys at all?? He's definitely becoming the least favorite player on the Sox more and more each day.

Here's one for you Paulie, get some wheels and learn how to run before you say that one of the worst hitting SS's in a long time is a "great" SS.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 12:40 PM
Huh? no one's saying to dump Konerko, no one's saying to cut Konerko. What people are saying is that he's not this immensely valuable tema player that needs to be resigned at a similar or greater salary. This is where knowing some of the history involved would come in handy as this is pretty much a continuation of past discussions that apparently you are not familiar with.

And railing at mods about their overreactions is not a great way to start off.


I didn't say anything bad to any mods, and if i did it was in a joking fashion, and I apologize.

And I totally agree about not paying PK more than he is making now.. he slumps too often. It's just that some posters here would have us believe that he may, in fact, be the worst baseball player ever, which is just not the case. Which is why i get a little frustrated at the overreactions.


It's like a football game. Your team makes the last second field goal, everything is good, they did just enough to win, they're playing solid. They miss that last second field goal, that team sucks, they're no good, blah blah blah. When in reality all it was was one kicker making or missing a field goal that changes the whole perception of a team. I've seen it a million times. mostly because i've been chatting on sports sites with chicago fanatics for years.

BaseballTonyght
06-17-2005, 12:48 PM
And now back to your regularly scheduled "PK Lambasting" thread...


Would the owner of a dark grey Chevy Avalanche license plate "GIDP4U" please report to guest services, your dome light is continually OFF.

:walnuts
"DOH!"

mdep524
06-17-2005, 12:49 PM
Paulie is showing more and more how little his worth is to this team.

Bad sometimes defeatist attitude, poor defense, no wheels, huge slumps, dead pull hitter, consistently fooled by offspeed pitches..... the only thing he does is hit fastballs to left field. Is that an $8.5M player?

By the way, another stat on Paulie: for a supposed power hitter, he only has 6 doubles so far this season. 6! David Ortiz, who's no speed burner either, has 19 doubles for comparison.

Deadguy
06-17-2005, 12:56 PM
Do you guys really need blue to see sarcasm. That's all I do is sarcasm. Maybe i'll put a footnote in my signature.

No, we need teal. That is a universal rule on this board.

It's just text on a screen, so we can't detect the pitch of your voice or the manner in which you speak, in order to detect sarcasm. That is why the teal rule exists here. If you don't use it, expect everything you type to be taken for face value, and expect your posts to spawn numerous pointless arguments about what you were trying to say.

If you don't like it, then leave. Big Loss.

Fungo
06-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Wow. This makes me think it's even more likely there are pro-Frank factions in the Sox clubhouse, and that Konerko doesn't like it one bit. What better way to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm.

Again, Konerko = :dtroll:

From an episode of Seinfeld where George hides a tape recorder in his briefcase to hear what members of the Foundation set up in his late fiance, Susan's honor...

JERRY: Just give me some idea of what you think it could be.

GEORGE: I don't know if you're ready for it.

JERRY: Please.

GEORGE: I believe that I am about to become the target of a systematic process of intimidation and manipulation, the likes of which you have never -

JERRY: Hold it, hold it! You're right, I'm not ready for this


I think some of you are really reaching here. Maybe if we record his comments and then play them backwards, we'll find out some other hidden message or scandal.

Konerko is the same guy who said last year that Justin Miller had the best slider he had ever seen (which I'm sure was a under-handed slap in the face to the entire White Sox pitching staff). The guy makes stupid comments occasionally. Really, nothing more, nothing less.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Like you? :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

how about PHG, you moron, someone whose knowledge i'll trust 18fold over paul "footmouth *******" konerko.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 01:05 PM
From an episode of Seinfeld where George hides a tape recorder in his briefcase to hear what members of the Foundation set up in his late fiance, Susan's honor...

JERRY: Just give me some idea of what you think it could be.

GEORGE: I don't know if you're ready for it.

JERRY: Please.

GEORGE: I believe that I am about to become the target of a systematic process of intimidation and manipulation, the likes of which you have never -

JERRY: Hold it, hold it! You're right, I'm not ready for this


I think some of you are really reaching here. Maybe if we record his comments and then play them backwards, we'll find out some other hidden message or scandal.

Konerko is the same guy who said last year that Justin Miller had the best slider he had ever seen (which I'm sure was a under-handed slap in the face to the entire White Sox pitching staff). The guy makes stupid comments occasionally. Really, nothing more, nothing less.


And yet, George was right. The foundation did think he killed Susan.

It's not whether Paul has a vendetta against Uribe or not. I doubt he does. He's just being a stupid ******* who thinks this team's about him.

Or maybe he's upset because he knows it's not.

LuvSox
06-17-2005, 01:08 PM
Geez, am I late on this thread. :(:


Good riddance to PK whenever he finally goes.

He swings for the fence most of the time.
He rarely hits the opposite way.
He is an 'average at best' 1st baseman.
He couldn't win a foot race in a nursing home.
He doesn't know when to shut the hell up.

Screw you Konerko.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 01:10 PM
No, we need teal. That is a universal rule on this board.

It's just text on a screen, so we can't detect the pitch of your voice or the manner in which you speak, in order to detect sarcasm. That is why the teal rule exists here. If you don't use it, expect everything you type to be taken for face value, and expect your posts to spawn numerous pointless arguments about what you were trying to say.

If you don't like it, then leave. Big Loss.


I never knew teal could sting so much.


See? more sarcasm.

rdwj
06-17-2005, 01:12 PM
how about PHG, you moron, someone whose knowledge i'll trust 18fold over paul "footmouth *******" konerko.

Nothing says I'm not very bright like swearing and name calling.

You can have your little man-crush on PaleHoseGeorge if you like - but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Paulie or most other pros for that matter. It was a fairly innocent comment.

JoseCanseco6969
06-17-2005, 01:15 PM
I never thought that we would have such a good team and record going that we would feel the need to take so much time bashing Konerko for a dumb comment. That being said, I'm glad that this is the worst we have. If a guy like PK is the most hated on a team, we're doing something right. GO SOX!! lets hope for a 1 hr 30 minute game tonight by Mark.

Lip Man 1
06-17-2005, 01:18 PM
Frater:

No offense taken. I regret the way the situation in the media in many places has deteriorated to the point where 'reporters' are now the story. I also regret and get angry that so many reporters work for multiple stations and in multiple positions.

What they aren't getting paid enough in Chicago to just do one job? I could see Pocatello, or Cedar Rapids or Monroe, but Chicago?

There's an old saying...I'm paraphrasing. "One can not serve two masters..." true statement...sooner or later there is bound to be a conflict of intrest on information. When it happens who do you give it to? and how do you make that decision?? (i.e. does the newspaper get the info or does say the radio station...)

Also there are many deserving sports people out there in the business who will never get the chance because so many of these folks are working for a radio station and doing a column for a newspaper and moonlighting at a TV station...it's garbage.

What ever happened to the days when say Johnny Morris worked strickly for WBBM-TV (a CBS affiliate) and for CBS doing color on the Bears games? Or Jack Brickhouse worked strickly for the WGN company? Or nationally when Curt Gowdry worked solely for NBC-TV. (He was forced to give up his job as Red Sox announcer...) or Howard Cosell for ABC?

Now one doesn't know who works for whom and more importantly what there loyalties are.

Sigh...

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 01:21 PM
Konerko is the same guy who said last year that Justin Miller had the best slider he had ever seen (which I'm sure was a under-handed slap in the face to the entire White Sox pitching staff). The guy makes stupid comments occasionally. Really, nothing more, nothing less.


But Konerko doesn't face Sox pitchers very often, if at all. He wouldn't know that much about what kind of slider they throw when he's never at the plate facing them when they are throwing their best stuff in a game situation.

He does, however, have to work closely with the rest of his infielders, including Uribe!

It would be one thing the Clayton comment were an isolated incident. But it was just a few weeks ago that Paulie criticized Uribe for deke-ing Derrek Lee! If he's the clubhouse leader and great teammate that his aPaulogists and FOGIDPK make him out to be, you'd think he'd tread carefully when asked to talk about another shortstop!

And I really love how many of the FOGIDPK accept as fact that he's a great clubhouse guy when I'll bet not one of them has ever set foot in the Sox clubhouse! We on the outside of the organization only can judge it by his public comments, and those have been a "choice" selection of utter feces during his stellar career with the Sox.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 01:21 PM
one last post in this thread... unless someone quotes me and I feel the need to respond.


Remember how big of a deal PK's comment about Uribe's deke of lee was around here?
Remember how little anyone on the sox cared?

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 01:22 PM
Remember how big of a deal PK's comment about Uribe's deke of lee was around here?
Remember how little anyone on the sox cared?

I remember that no one on the Sox cared to comment about Paulie's comment about Uribe publicly through the media.....

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 01:25 PM
Frater:

No offense taken. I regret the way the situation in the media in many places has deteriorated to the point where 'reporters' are now the story. I also regret and get angry that so many reporters work for multiple stations and in multiple positions.

What they aren't getting paid enough in Chicago to just do one job? I could see Pocatello, or Cedar Rapids or Monroe, but Chicago?

There's an old saying...I'm paraphrasing. "One can not serve two masters..." true statement...sooner or later there is bound to be a conflict of intrest on information. When it happens who do you give it to? and how do you make that decision?? (i.e. does the newspaper get the info or does say the radio station...)

Also there are many deserving sports people out there in the business who will never get the chance because so many of these folks are working for a radio station and doing a column for a newspaper and moonlighting at a TV station...it's garbage.

What ever happened to the days when say Johnny Morris worked strickly for WBBM-TV (a CBS affiliate) and for CBS doing color on the Bears games? Or Jack Brickhouse worked strickly for the WGN company? Or nationally when Curt Gowdry worked solely for NBC-TV. (He was forced to give up his job as Red Sox announcer...) or Howard Cosell for ABC?

Now one doesn't know who works for whom and more importantly what there loyalties are.

Sigh...

Lip

Lip, I really mean it when I say I wish you (or at least straight-shooter guys like you) were working the Sox beat for the Trib or Sun Times.

Sxy Mofo
06-17-2005, 01:27 PM
I remember that no one on the Sox cared to comment about Paulie's comment about Uribe publicly through the media.....


but you obviously know what every sox player is thinking so i'll be busy not arguing with you about the sox players thoughts.

BaseballTonyght
06-17-2005, 01:29 PM
Anyone have the over/under on a trip to the RH? :redneck

PBRWarrior
06-17-2005, 01:31 PM
YOu guys are acting like PK said the Uribe was garbage or something. All PK ever said to badmouth Uribe is that his deek of the scrubs was uncalled for. I will admit that you should never comment on how great a former teammate was until your career is over. Uribe is 5 times a better batter then Rolls Royce. Everyone can see defensivly uribe is out of position and came up as a 2b. I think uribe has done a fine job this year. This PK bashing needs to stop. I beat none of you were bashing him last season.

TheOldRoman
06-17-2005, 01:33 PM
"GIDP4U"
:rolling:

JB98
06-17-2005, 01:37 PM
I couldn't even stomach more than two pages of this thread. You are all a bunch of crybabies. Konerko thinks Clayton is a good SS. Big deal. It isn't like he said, "Uribe sucks."

You people all thought the deke issue was "going to destroy team chemistry" too. It didn't happened. People thought Frank's return was "going to destroy team chemistry." It didn't happen. Carl's comments about gays are not "going to destroy team chemistry" and neither is this comment by Konerko. As you might be able to tell, I'm sick of hearing about "chemistry." It doesn't amount to a hill of beans between the white lines.

Apparently, I give Uribe a lot more credit than several of the posters here. It isn't like he's going to stop playing hard because Konerko thinks Clayton is good. With the way people act around here, you'd have to guess Juan is sobbing his eyes out in the clubhouse in the wake of these comments. My guess is he doesn't even care. This isn't junior high girls basketball. These players are grown men, and I think they have thicker skin than some of you realize. If there's a problem, which I doubt, it will be handled out of view of the public. PK and Juan are both good players. I'm glad they're on our team.

Elsewhere on this board, we have people arguing that Buerhle made a "big mistake" by speculating that a Cubs pitcher doctors the ball. Supposedly, this is "bad press for the White Sox." Honestly, as a fan base, we have to stop being so sensitive about what players say and what is written in the papers and said on TV. I'm guilty of it sometimes too, but the fact of the matter is wins and losses are the only things that matter. We're doing extremely well in that category this year, and when I see lengthy threads like this one, my reaction is we're just trying to find something to be pissed off about. It's unhealthy and unnecessary to have all this anger.


</rant>

Fungo
06-17-2005, 01:40 PM
And yet, George was right. The foundation did think he killed Susan.

It's not whether Paul has a vendetta against Uribe or not. I doubt he does. He's just being a stupid ******* who thinks this team's about him.

Or maybe he's upset because he knows it's not.

Yes, but to think Konerko has masterminded a plot to give credit to each of Frank's nemesis because he is so against the "pro-Frank factions in the Sox clubhouse" is ridiculous.

Maybe tomorrow's headline in Bash Paulie Weekly will be...

Konerko: "Giambi hands down MVP in 2000, period. No one was even close."

Just to spite Frank of course.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 01:40 PM
:tomatoaward:

And the pitcher lobs a tomato, which Paulie promptly hits to the third baseman, who throws to the second baseman, who steps on the bag for one out, turns around three times, and runs backward to first base for the double play.

JoseCanseco6969
06-17-2005, 01:44 PM
And I really love how many of the FOGIDPK accept as fact that he's a great clubhouse guy when I'll bet not one of them has ever set foot in the Sox clubhouse! We on the outside of the organization only can judge it by his public comments, and those have been a "choice" selection of utter feces during his stellar career with the Sox.

Yes, all we know about a clubhouse is what the media lets out. And I also will bet that YOU have never set foot in the Sox clubhouse either, so where is your 1st hand experience that he is indeed a clubhouse cancer?? Have you heard any other player bitch about PK??? I doubt Uribe cares about the comment.
If this is indeed PK's last with the Sox, we probably will and SHOULD find out after he is gone if he was a CLee in the clubhouse.

And for the record, I'm not a FOGIDPK, but I am going to support my team and whoever plays for my team. I'm not going to be a Cubs fan and start booing my players for stupid comments, a bad play on the field, slump, etc.

clee-hegone
06-17-2005, 01:45 PM
people do develop friendships when they play together. possibly konerko was defending his friend. people make comments like that all time "so-so is the best player at (name position) so you guys gotta stop making such a big deal over nothing.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 01:47 PM
Let's revisit Paulie's quote, for good measure:

"He's the best shortstop I ever played with, period," Konerko said. "No one is even close to him. I think the wetness of the ball had something to do with [the throwing error]."

Paulie should have said, "and I've played with some really great ones, too" instead of "No one is even close to him."

Now, how exactly is Juan Uribe supposed to take that comment, just three weeks after Paulie called him out for fooling Derrek Lee? As an expression of undying love and an effort to build up team solidarity?

:kukoo:

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 01:48 PM
Nothing says I'm not very bright like swearing and name calling.

You can have your little man-crush on PaleHoseGeorge if you like - but I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Paulie or most other pros for that matter. It was a fairly innocent comment.

well it's no swearing and name calling, but insinuating homosexuality is wonderful in its own way. i would apologize for the cursing and name calling, but really, i don't want to. anyway:

Paulie is a dumb ox. He can hit a baseball (I'm told - I sure haven't seen it this year). Yeah yeah i know: ken harrelson thinks he's "one of the most intelligent players in baseball." The problem is - the proof is in the pudding.

paulie has just this season proven he doesn't know a thing about "the unwritten rules of the deke" or who's a better shortstop - buddy lee or juan uribe.

What a maroon.

You are too.

Nard
06-17-2005, 01:48 PM
Konerko thinks Clayton is a good SS. Big deal.

"He's the best shortstop I ever played with, period."

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 01:50 PM
YOu guys are acting like PK said the Uribe was garbage or something. All PK ever said to badmouth Uribe is that his deek of the scrubs was uncalled for. I will admit that you should never comment on how great a former teammate was until your career is over. Uribe is 5 times a better batter then Rolls Royce. Everyone can see defensivly uribe is out of position and came up as a 2b. I think uribe has done a fine job this year. This PK bashing needs to stop. I beat none of you were bashing him last season.

ok how about this: jeremyb1 is the best poster WSI has ever seen.

by calling his moronic posts the best, I am insulting everyone else on this site.

When you call a **** player better than everyone else you've played with, that's low.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 01:50 PM
Yes, all we know about a clubhouse is what the media lets out. And I also will bet that YOU have never set foot in the Sox clubhouse either, so where is your 1st hand experience that he is indeed a clubhouse cancer?? Have you heard any other player bitch about PK??? I doubt Uribe cares about the comment.
If this is indeed PK's last with the Sox, we probably will and SHOULD find out after he is gone if he was a CLee in the clubhouse.

And for the record, I'm not a FOGIDPK, but I am going to support my team and whoever plays for my team. I'm not going to be a Cubs fan and start booing my players for stupid comments, a bad play on the field, slump, etc.

I've never set foot in the clubhouse, nor have I ever claimed to have done so. As I said, all I can go by is what I read and hear in the media. And Paulie definitely has destroyed any mirage he once may have projected to the public as a "clubhouse leader" with his public comments in the media.

Maybe other players haven't complained about Paulie to a reporter because they don't want to follow his example of calling out a teammate in the media!

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 01:51 PM
You people all thought the deke issue was "going to destroy team chemistry" too. It didn't happened. People thought Frank's return was "going to destroy team chemistry." It didn't happen. Carl's comments about gays are not "going to destroy team chemistry" and neither is this comment by Konerko. As you might be able to tell, I'm sick of hearing about "chemistry." It doesn't amount to a hill of beans between the white lines.



</rant>
Oh GOD what a stupid comment. If I hit a support on the Brooklyn bridge with a hammer day after day after day, does it make it a smart career move just because the bridge never fell?

daveeym
06-17-2005, 01:58 PM
Wow. This makes me think it's even more likely there are pro-Frank factions in the Sox clubhouse, and that Konerko doesn't like it one bit. What better way to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm.

Again, Konerko = :dtroll: OMFG you and Joe Cowley could be twins. Only difference is his diarrhea coming from his keyboard is about Frank and yours is about Paulie. Talk about blowing things out of proportion, tin foil hat responses, looking for and making **** up about a clubhouse. :rolleyes:

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 02:01 PM
OMFG you and Joe Cowley could be twins. Only difference is his diarrhea coming from his keyboard is about Frank and yours is about Paulie. Talk about blowing things out of proportion, tin foil hat responses, looking for and making **** up about a clubhouse. :rolleyes:

You know what, daveeym, you're right. I'm going to go back at add these tags to that post:

[wild speculation] text [/wild speculation]

Fungo
06-17-2005, 02:01 PM
But Konerko doesn't face Sox pitchers very often, if at all. He wouldn't know that much about what kind of slider they throw when he's never at the plate facing them when they are throwing their best stuff in a game situation.

He does, however, have to work closely with the rest of his infielders, including Uribe!

It would be one thing the Clayton comment were an isolated incident. But it was just a few weeks ago that Paulie criticized Uribe for deke-ing Derrek Lee! If he's the clubhouse leader and great teammate that his aPaulogists and FOGIDPK make him out to be, you'd think he'd tread carefully when asked to talk about another shortstop!

And I really love how many of the FOGIDPK accept as fact that he's a great clubhouse guy when I'll bet not one of them has ever set foot in the Sox clubhouse! We on the outside of the organization only can judge it by his public comments, and those have been a "choice" selection of utter feces during his stellar career with the Sox.

I'm no FOGIDPK, he drives me just as nuts as the next guy. I was simple responding to this plot you've schemed up that Knoerko is trying "to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm."

Just a bit far fetched in my book is all.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 02:05 PM
I'm no FOGIDPK, he drives me just as nuts as the next guy. I was simple responding to this plot you've schemed up that Knoerko is trying "to get in a dig at Frank than to call out the guy who takes hitting tips from him (Uribe) and then say one of his positional predecessors - the one who fooled around with Frank's ex-wife - is his choice at shortstop? Hmmm."

Just a bit far fetched in my book is all.

You're right, and I've amended that post to make it clear that I'm just wildly speculating.

But, my larger point is that my speculation is no worse or more hyperbolic than the comments that the FOGIDPK and the aPaulogists make that Paulie is a "clubhouse leader" and "great teammate" when there simply is no evidence available to support that assertion, and when the only evidence available to us (his media comments) point to the exact opposite conclusion!

Fungo
06-17-2005, 02:10 PM
You're right, and I've amended that post to make it clear that I'm just wildly speculating.

But, my larger point is that my speculation is no worse or more hyperbolic than the comments that the FOGIDPK and the aPaulogists make that Paulie is a "clubhouse leader" and "great teammate" when there simply is no evidence available to support that assertion, and when the only evidence available to us (his media comments) point to the exact opposite conclusion!

Gotcha. I caught it before you amended it and thought it was way over the top.

JB98
06-17-2005, 02:19 PM
"He's the best shortstop I ever played with, period."

You know what, I find a lot of irony in all this discussion. Back when we failed to sign Omar Vizquel, there was all this gnashing of teeth about how we'd better find another shortstop. Quite a few argued Juan couldn't handle the position. I knew that he could, and I was mocked for holding that opinion. Now, people are arguing that Juan is superior to Choice. My, my. How things change.

If we're talking about defense (and I assume PK was), Choice is the best shortstop we've had since Ozzie. The problem was he couldn't hit his weight. Manos was a good offensive SS. Choice was a good defensive SS. Uribe is not as good a hitter as Manos was and he's not as good as Choice defensively. However, he is above average in both categories. Therefore, we're better off with Juan because we don't have to put up with Manos' errors or Choice's wretched batting average.

Again, assuming Paulie was talking about defense only, Choice is the best SS he's played with. We just couldn't live with Choice hitting .099 two months into the season any longer. That's why we got rid of him.

JB98
06-17-2005, 02:27 PM
Oh GOD what a stupid comment. If I hit a support on the Brooklyn bridge with a hammer day after day after day, does it make it a smart career move just because the bridge never fell?

I find your post equally stupid. If you look through the history of sports, there are plenty of teams that didn't get along off the field and still managed to win championships. The Oakland A's of the 1970s are the most often cited example in baseball. For a more local example, see the Bulls dynasty. Trust me, the rank-and-file members of that team had no use for Jordan and Pippen off the court. Players don't have to like each other to win.

I think "team chemistry" is an overused cliche that jocks use to explain a winning streak. Chemistry doesn't win baseball games. Pitching, timely hitting and defense win baseball games.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 02:29 PM
You know what, I find a lot of irony in all this discussion. Back when we failed to sign Omar Vizquel, there was all this gnashing of teeth about how we'd better find another shortstop. Quite a few argued Juan couldn't handle the position. I knew that he could, and I was mocked for holding that opinion. Now, people are arguing that Juan is superior to Choice. My, my. How things change.

If we're talking about defense (and I assume PK was), Choice is the best shortstop we've had since Ozzie. The problem was he couldn't hit his weight. Manos was a good offensive SS. Choice was a good defensive SS. Uribe is not as good a hitter as Manos was and he's not as good as Choice defensively. However, he is above average in both categories. Therefore, we're better off with Juan because we don't have to put up with Manos' errors or Choice's wretched batting average.

Again, assuming Paulie was talking about defense only, Choice is the best SS he's played with. We just couldn't live with Choice hitting .099 two months into the season any longer. That's why we got rid of him.

he was the best at not getting the scorers to score balls hit to him as "errors". There's a difference between that and being the best shortstop.

listen carefully FOGIDPK and (oddly) Friends Of Royce Clayton's Defense:

ROYCE HAS LOUSY RANGE

ROYCE OFTEN POCKETS THROWS HE WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE A PLAY ON

ROYCE IS THE SS EQUIVALENT OF RYNE SANDBERG

Is it that hard to understand? Baseball is not played on a piece of paper with a pretty little fielding pct. Baseball is played on the field where Uribe makes plays Royce wouldn't even be moving towards because

a.) he'd be way too out of position
b.) he'd know he couldn't get there without diving.

I've seen this chump play in person in 3 different uni's:

Brewers, Rockies, and Sox and he's played lousy, lazy, selfish baseball (YES: including defense) in every single one of them.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 02:30 PM
I find your post equally stupid. If you look through the history of sports, there are plenty of teams that didn't get along off the field and still managed to win championships. The Oakland A's of the 1970s are the most often cited example in baseball. For a more local example, see the Bulls dynasty. Trust me, the rank-and-file members of that team had no use for Jordan and Pippen off the court. Players don't have to like each other to win.

I think "team chemistry" is an overused cliche that jocks use to explain a winning streak. Chemistry doesn't win baseball games. Pitching, timely hitting and defense win baseball games.

but when a player is doing bonehead teammate stuff like paulie and he's not exactly mr. october, then we have to evaluate what exactly is so endearing about mr. walnuts.

SoxSpeed22
06-17-2005, 02:31 PM
"He's the best shortstop I ever played with, period."Considering that he played with Manos (de Piedras) for 4 years and doesn't know what Juan can do. This still wasn't necessary.:rolleyes:

infohawk
06-17-2005, 02:36 PM
This is insane. People want to lynch and or trade Konerko (who leads the team in homers, RBI and runs scored) because he said Clayton was the best defensive shortstop he's played with?! Not only was Konerko's statement simply his opinion (which he's entitled to), but likely came in response to some reporter's question trying to get Konerko to dump on Clayton after the two misplays Clayton made in the 6th. I read it more as Konerko defending Clayton rather than ripping Uribe. C'mon. Enough already -- this is really no big deal.

Well said. Konerko's comment had nothing to do with Uribe, nothing to do with how anyone feels about Clayton's tenure with the Sox, nothing to do with Paulie's statistics or how he is hitting right now or any other comments he has ever made in a Sox uniform. Let's focus on the issue at hand. He was asked about Royce Clayton's error, and he offered his opinion that Clayton is the best defensive shortstop with whom he has played. That translates into praise for Clayton. Some may believe that Paulie should have phrased it differently, which is fair, but let's not endeavor to read more into the statement than was actually there.

Flight #24
06-17-2005, 02:45 PM
I think "team chemistry" is an overused cliche that jocks use to explain a winning streak. Chemistry doesn't win baseball games. Pitching, timely hitting and defense win baseball games.

Exactly the point.

1) Timely hitting is not Paulie's strong suit, as evidenced by his .231BA with RISP - FWIW, lowest among the regulars
2) He is prone to extended slumps, again - see "timely hitting" (or lack thereof)
3) Defense is not Paulie's strong suit as he's merely adequate


And his defenders and the media like to characterize him as a "team leader", which he obviously is not since you've never heard him a)defend a teammate, b)talk much when he's struggling, c)help out/mentor younger players. In fact, what you can gauge from his public comments is that at best, the other guys can ignore what he says rather than getting upset about it.

So even if you accept that chemistry is important, the best that you can say is that he's not a cancer - he's certainly not adding anything to the clubhouse with his behavior.

And this is an $8.75mil, "cornerstone" player?:?: Sounds a lot more like a $5-7mil complementary guy who needs to be told to **** to me.

Juice16
06-17-2005, 02:59 PM
Why does Paulie have to shut his mouth? He didn't rip a teammate. So he feels Royce was the best shortstop he played with. I happen to agree that defensively, he is the best the Sox have had in awhile. Too bad he couldn't hit. It amazes me how people bash athletes when they have opinions like they have no right saying anything.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 03:06 PM
I think the word "deke" is stupid. I cringe every time I see it or hear it.

Why can't we say "decoy" or just "fake?" Why do we have to make up words when there are better substitutes to be had? It's not like "decoy" is 8 sylables or something.

cheeses_h_rice
06-17-2005, 03:06 PM
Why does Paulie have to shut his mouth? He didn't rip a teammate. So he feels Royce was the best shortstop he played with. I happen to agree that defensively, he is the best the Sox have had in awhile. Too bad he couldn't hit. It amazes me how people bash athletes when they have opinions like they have no right saying anything.

Allow me to stand with you on the side of reasonableness and back your take that Paul probably didn't mean much by his comment other than he liked the way Royce gobbled up easy ground balls, which was his forte. It's also possible that, from a first baseman's perspective, Royce had more accurate throws to him than Manos, Uribe or Mike Caruso, the other Sox SSs in GIDPK's tenure.

DC Sox Fan
06-17-2005, 03:06 PM
DING, DING!!!! ALL ABOARD THE
http://img153.echo.cx/img153/1530/pkda6sz.jpg

mweflen
06-17-2005, 03:12 PM
This thread is getting into "Should I cell, I mean sell" territory for comedy...

ja1022
06-17-2005, 03:26 PM
Wow. So if Juan Uribe responds to a reporters line of questioning, that Todd Helton is the best defensive first baseman he has ever seen, Konerko has a problem with that? I don't think so.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 03:30 PM
Wow. So if Juan Uribe responds to a reporters line of questioning, that Todd Helton is the best defensive first baseman he has ever seen, Konerko has a problem with that? I don't think so.

hurray for missing the point.

if andy van slyke came out and said "bobby bonilla is the best outfielder i ever played with" what would that mean?

or are you going to say that andy wouldn't be meaning to snub a certain other outfielder?



that's the point. now stop missing it.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 03:33 PM
So: how much is GIDPK worth to keep around?

If I could write him a contract and be guaranteed he'd accept it, I'd give him $6 mil per year for 4 years, with incentives for average and RBI which could raise it to as much as $8.

But I'd never give him more than $8 mil, because of the type of hitter he is(i.e. GIDPK, streaky awful, RISP, never the other way, etc.), and his awful speed on the basepaths.

tacosalbarojas
06-17-2005, 03:52 PM
Frater:

No offense taken. I regret the way the situation in the media in many places has deteriorated to the point where 'reporters' are now the story. I also regret and get angry that so many reporters work for multiple stations and in multiple positions.

What they aren't getting paid enough in Chicago to just do one job? I could see Pocatello, or Cedar Rapids or Monroe, but Chicago?

There's an old saying...I'm paraphrasing. "One can not serve two masters..." true statement...sooner or later there is bound to be a conflict of intrest on information. When it happens who do you give it to? and how do you make that decision?? (i.e. does the newspaper get the info or does say the radio station...)

Also there are many deserving sports people out there in the business who will never get the chance because so many of these folks are working for a radio station and doing a column for a newspaper and moonlighting at a TV station...it's garbage.

What ever happened to the days when say Johnny Morris worked strickly for WBBM-TV (a CBS affiliate) and for CBS doing color on the Bears games? Or Jack Brickhouse worked strickly for the WGN company? Or nationally when Curt Gowdry worked solely for NBC-TV. (He was forced to give up his job as Red Sox announcer...) or Howard Cosell for ABC?

Now one doesn't know who works for whom and more importantly what there loyalties are.

Sigh...

LipOutstanding post! Signed, a stringer looking to do more.

maurice
06-17-2005, 04:10 PM
Despite Konerko's recent comments re. how a good SS plays the game, I seriously doubt that he has a personal vendetta against Uribe. Unfortunately, that leaves only one other explanation: he actually believes that Clayton is a much, much better SS than Uribe, and he actually believes that saving runs by tricking a stupid opponent is bad. Those are jaw-droppingly absurd positions to take.

Cancer or dumbass? You make the call. I don't care. Either way, I want him gone by next year.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 04:15 PM
ummm..... I vote dumbass. :D:

daveeym
06-17-2005, 04:16 PM
Can we at least make this thread somewhat productive and have some of the stat heads throw out some range factors between the two and **** like that?

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 04:17 PM
ummm..... I vote dumbass. :D:

I agree. He's closer to a pimple than a cancer.

maurice
06-17-2005, 04:19 PM
I don't think I qualify as a stat head, but these things are pretty simply to pull up . . .

Uribe's career RF as a SS: 5.06.
Clayton's career RF as a SS: 4.71.

That's a pretty significant difference supporting the argument that Uribe has more range. Also, despite Clayton's fanatical efforts to maximize his FPCT through any means necessary, the two players have virtualy the same FPCT (and "zone rating").

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 04:22 PM
Can we at least make this thread somewhat productive and have some of the stat heads throw out some range factors between the two and **** like that?

Sure, but it is at all positions rather than just SS, and this is career:

RFg lgRFg
Clayton 4.46 4.02
Uribe 4.64 3.96

Playing shortstop with the Sox:

Yr RFg lgRFg
Clayton 2001 4.23 4.03
2002 4.20 4.15

Uribe 2004 4.45 4.12

daveeym
06-17-2005, 04:28 PM
Sure, but it is at all positions rather than just SS, and this is career:

RFg lgRFg
Clayton 4.46 4.02
Uribe 4.64 3.96

Playing shortstop with the Sox:

Yr RFg lgRFg
Clayton 2001 4.23 4.03
2002 4.20 4.15

Uribe 2004 4.45 4.12

Ok but this is no good without links.

daveeym
06-17-2005, 04:29 PM
I don't think I qualify as a stat head, but these things are pretty simply to pull up . . .

Uribe's career RF as a SS: 5.06.
Clayton's career RF as a SS: 4.71.

That's a pretty significant difference supporting the argument that Uribe has more range. Also, despite Clayton's fanatical efforts to maximize his FPCT through any means necessary, the two players have virtualy the same FPCT (and "zone rating"). Ok those need to be taken into consideration as well.

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 04:30 PM
Ok but this is no good without links.

http://www.baseball-reference.com

Type in the name of each player.

maurice
06-17-2005, 04:31 PM
ESPN.com breaks down the career #s by position.

Assuming that defensive stats mean anything at all (a thought that would cause daver and randar to LOL), the stats cumulatively indicate that Urbe is the superior defensive SS, because he has more range. Uribe also has a much stronger arm. He's ugly but effective.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 04:32 PM
I think Captain Picard has a way better range factor that Captain Kirk.:redneck

brewcrew/chisox
06-17-2005, 04:33 PM
Uribe doesn't even speak english so someone would have to tell him PK said it. Even if someone did, who gives a sh*t?


Uhmm, I wouldn't do that if I were you. A little FYI so as to preserve your longivity here. Read the rules of posting, particularly the rule on trying to avoid the language filters. Just use all *******.

:wink:

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 04:35 PM
Friends Of Royce Clayton's DefenseThis group has existed for a long time, the original FO's, the FOB's (Friends of Buddy Lee).

:buddylee

That's right WSI. My FOB's still got my back after all these years!

daveeym
06-17-2005, 04:37 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/)

Type in the name of each player.
YES for Juan Uribe

Similar Batters through Age 24
Compare Stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=uribeju01:Juan+Uribe&st=age&compage=24)

Wil Cordero (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cordewi01.shtml) (955)
Miguel Tejada (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tejadmi01.shtml) (946)
Frankie Crosetti (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/crosefr01.shtml) (941)
Eric McNair (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcnaier01.shtml) (939)
Dick McAuliffe (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcauldi01.shtml) (936)
Juan Samuel (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/samueju01.shtml) (936)
Duke Farrell (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/farredu01.shtml) (935)
Johnny Berardino (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/berarjo01.shtml) (933)
Germany Smith (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/smithge01.shtml) (930)
Jimmy Rollins (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rolliji01.shtml) (928)
Wil Cordero but best yet my homeboy Juan Samuel.

Now all these numbers are confusing though.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 04:37 PM
This group has existed for a long time, the original FO's, the FOB's (Friends of Buddy Lee).

:buddylee

That's right WSI. My FOB's still got my back after all these years!

FWC... can you or someone else enlighten me, who the heck is Buddy Lee?

Since I'm an elder now, I should be initiated into some of the mysteries!:wink:

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 04:40 PM
FWC... can you or someone else enlighten me, who the heck is Buddy Lee?

Since I'm an elder now, I should be initiated into some of the mysteries!:wink:The Choice (http://www.flyingsock.com/glossary/index.php?a=term&d=1&t=207). He and Buddy Lee have the same range. :cool:

Buddy Lee (http://www.flyingsock.com/glossary/index.php?a=term&d=1&t=5)

FOB's (http://www.flyingsock.com/glossary/index.php?a=term&d=1&t=139)

TornLabrum
06-17-2005, 04:41 PM
YES for Juan Uribe

Similar Batters through Age 24
Compare Stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=uribeju01:Juan+Uribe&st=age&compage=24)

Wil Cordero (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cordewi01.shtml) (955)
Miguel Tejada (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tejadmi01.shtml) (946)
Frankie Crosetti (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/crosefr01.shtml) (941)
Eric McNair (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcnaier01.shtml) (939)
Dick McAuliffe (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcauldi01.shtml) (936)
Juan Samuel (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/samueju01.shtml) (936)
Duke Farrell (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/farredu01.shtml) (935)
Johnny Berardino (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/berarjo01.shtml) (933)
Germany Smith (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/smithge01.shtml) (930)
Jimmy Rollins (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rolliji01.shtml) (928)
Wil Cordero but best yet my homeboy Juan Samuel.

Now all these numbers are confusing though.

Ooooooo! John Berardino! Maybe Uribe can star in a soap opera in the D.R. when he retires!

DC Sox Fan
06-17-2005, 04:41 PM
only 52 more posts, and our northern neigbhorly nostradamus' prediction comes true!!! :cool:

longwood
06-17-2005, 04:43 PM
Exactly the point.

1) Timely hitting is not Paulie's strong suit, as evidenced by his .231BA with RISP - FWIW, lowest among the regulars
2) He is prone to extended slumps, again - see "timely hitting" (or lack thereof)
3) Defense is not Paulie's strong suit as he's merely adequate


And his defenders and the media like to characterize him as a "team leader", which he obviously is not since you've never heard him a)defend a teammate, b)talk much when he's struggling, c)help out/mentor younger players. In fact, what you can gauge from his public comments is that at best, the other guys can ignore what he says rather than getting upset about it.

So even if you accept that chemistry is important, the best that you can say is that he's not a cancer - he's certainly not adding anything to the clubhouse with his behavior.

And this is an $8.75mil, "cornerstone" player?:?: Sounds a lot more like a $5-7mil complementary guy who needs to be told to **** to me.

Timely hitting? Leading the team in RBIs while batting .230 sounds like timely hitting to me. Yes, that's because he has guys on base in front, but they have to score somehow. BTW: He's up to .251 and climbing. I agree that he is a streaky hitter, but Everett, Dye, and Uribe all have struggle the first 2 months of the season.

Prone to extended slumps. I'll concede this point with a caveat. 2003 is really the year that you can point to, and he was down the entire year. Only 18 HR/ .234 BA/65 RBIs. However, I'm not sure I'd call this year a extended slump yet. Its only 1/3 away over and he is already at 17HR/.251 BA/and 45 RBIs.

I agree that Paul is an average defensive 1st baseman, but he does the job.

Its funny that the only place I hear that Pauly is a cancer in the clubhouse and not a team leader is here at WSI. Roony and Farmer consider him a leader, and I think they have a pretty good handle of what goes on in the clubhouse. Paul has defended/praised teamates many a times in the media, but it goes unnoticed as a 10 second soundbyte. Leadership is not always defending your teammates at all cost. Sometimes you have to call out someone. Sometimes you have to be the spokesman for what your other teammates are feeling. (Personally I felt embarrassed at Uribe's Decoy, although D LEE is just as much to blame as he should be paying attention to his 3rd base coach.) Sometimes, you have to lead by example. Getting to the clubhouse early. Taking extra BP. Doing whatever the coach asks you to do.

What's keeping quiet when he's slumping and speaking up when he's not have to do with anything?

Is he worth 8.75 mil? I think so.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Personally I felt embarrassed at Uribe's Decoy, although D LEE is just as much to blame as he should be paying attention to his 3rd base coach.If you move really fast you might be able to catch your credibility going out the window. :D:

cheeses_h_rice
06-17-2005, 04:46 PM
FWC... can you or someone else enlighten me, who the heck is Buddy Lee?

Since I'm an elder now, I should be initiated into some of the mysteries!:wink:

Buddy Lee was the inanimate Lee Jeans mascot. Arguably, his range was about as good as Royce's.

:wink:

JB98
06-17-2005, 04:48 PM
but when a player is doing bonehead teammate stuff like paulie and he's not exactly mr. october, then we have to evaluate what exactly is so endearing about mr. walnuts.

Newsflash: We don't have anybody who is Mr. October. We haven't been in the playoffs in five years. Thomas is a first ballot HOF'er, and he sucked in the 2000 postseason, just like Konerko did. If that's the qualification we're using, we don't have anybody who is worth a damn.

What is so endearing about Konerko? Well, since the start of 2004, he's the most productive offensive first baseman this side of Pujols. That simple. Look at the HRs and RBIs. I have never once in my life argued that Konerko is "a great teammate and a clubhouse leader." I've never been in the clubhouse, and I have no freaking clue what Konerko's teammates think of him. I have never once argued that Konerko is "great at turning the 3-6-3 double play." I'm not blind. I know that he is only average at first base, and that's putting it kindly. I am arguing that he is a key offensive presence in the middle of the lineup. Nothing more, nothing less.

In case you haven't noticed, we've been scoring a lot more runs the last few weeks since Konerko and Dye started hitting. I hate to tell you, but this team is better off with Konerko than without him.

Flight #24
06-17-2005, 05:04 PM
Timely hitting? Leading the team in RBIs while batting .230 sounds like timely hitting to me. Yes, that's because he has guys on base in front, but they have to score somehow. BTW: He's up to .251 and climbing. I agree that he is a streaky hitter, but Everett, Dye, and Uribe all have struggle the first 2 months of the season.

Perhaps you misinterpreted my statistic. He is hitting .231 with RISP, not overall. And that's inclusive of his raising his overall avg to .251. My definition of "timely" would be "with men in scoring position", during which time he is not hitting well (unless you consider .231 "well"). Your comparison to Dye, Uribe, Everett is an excellent one. Konerko does have many similarities to them as a hitter, and I wouldn't pay any of them $9mil. However, in at least 2 of the cases (Dye, Uribe), you're also talking about some pretty good defenders at difficult positions.


Prone to extended slumps. I'll concede this point with a caveat. 2003 is really the year that you can point to, and he was down the entire year. Only 18 HR/ .234 BA/65 RBIs. However, I'm not sure I'd call this year a extended slump yet. Its only 1/3 away over and he is already at 17HR/.251 BA/and 45 RBIs.

...

Is he worth 8.75 mil? I think so.

Well, I'd call 2 months "extended", but we can differ on that. He also had a bad 2d half in 2002 IIRC.

For about half of that, I can easily get a guy who hits fewer HRs, but gets a higher avg, plays better D, and drives in as many runs. And that woudl let me upgrade in a number of other areas.

DickAllen72
06-17-2005, 05:05 PM
I have a hunch (and it's nothing more) that there are "factions" in the Sox clubhouse, and we've just not heard about them because the Sox have been winning. (Thank goodness!) Were there not some reports about Frank giving Uribe advice about his swing? Hmmm. Plus, hasn't Rowand said nice things about Frank as a teammate? Hmmm. I wonder if Konerko is a just bit frosted that Frank is back, hitting very well, getting props from his teammates as a good guy and getting loud ovations from the fans. And so rather than calling out Frank (yet, anyway), he's either directly calling out or giving back-handed "compliments" to a member of Frank's circle. Hmmm.


I don't know if this is true, but you may be right. Just about anytime you get 25 people working together daily, there's bound to be "factions". Anyway, that's why it's great to have a guy like Carl in that clubhouse and why it's so important to keep him around. Carl will keep that clubhouse straight and won't be afraid to get on a teammate who's causing trouble. Plus Carl seems like a guy who always has his teammate's backs when it comes to the media or anyone outside the White Sox "family" as he calls it.

JB98
06-17-2005, 05:08 PM
he was the best at not getting the scorers to score balls hit to him as "errors". There's a difference between that and being the best shortstop.

listen carefully FOGIDPK and (oddly) Friends Of Royce Clayton's Defense:

ROYCE HAS LOUSY RANGE

ROYCE OFTEN POCKETS THROWS HE WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE A PLAY ON

ROYCE IS THE SS EQUIVALENT OF RYNE SANDBERG

Is it that hard to understand? Baseball is not played on a piece of paper with a pretty little fielding pct. Baseball is played on the field where Uribe makes plays Royce wouldn't even be moving towards because

a.) he'd be way too out of position
b.) he'd know he couldn't get there without diving.

I've seen this chump play in person in 3 different uni's:

Brewers, Rockies, and Sox and he's played lousy, lazy, selfish baseball (YES: including defense) in every single one of them.

And just who would you rank ahead of Choice among players that Konerko has played with? Caruso? Manos? Graffanino? Dransfeldt? Valdez? Not exactly a who's who of shortstops. Uribe is the only other one that belongs in this discussion.

Look, I think Juan is doing a helluva job this year. In fact, I've been consistent in defending him and Crede. Even though they haven't hit as much as I would like, grounders to the left side of the infield are being turned into outs this year. That's a HUGE part of our success. However, let's remember that Uribe has only been our full-time shortstop for 65 games. He's a better athlete than Choice. He has better tools than Choice. He's still a young player and a work in progress. Most people around the league would probably rank Choice ahead of him, although that will change if Juan continues to play the type of SS he has through the first 65 games of this season.

All this is beside the point anyway. Konerko paid Choice a compliment. It wasn't intended as an insult to Uribe. The thin-skinned people on this board are spinning it around to support their hypothesis that we're better off without Konerko. To me, that's ludicrous.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 05:29 PM
All this is beside the point anyway. Konerko paid Choice a compliment. It wasn't intended as an insult to Uribe. The thin-skinned people on this board are spinning it around to support their hypothesis that we're better off without Konerko. To me, that's ludicrous.:?: Konerko publicly rips Uribe (this is not open to any debate whatsoever) defending a Flub. A brief time later Konerko sings the praises of former Sox cancer Buddy Lee. Connected? Not 100%, but the possibility is certainly there. You can defend him all you want, but he's definitely a media whore with a big mouth. I never said we were better off without him at this point in time. I would not pay him huge money going forward. I find defending his less than team oriented, attention grabbing behavior, as the Apaulogists do, ludicrous.

yoester
06-17-2005, 05:41 PM
I don't know why Paulie is so revered among Sox fans? I just can't stand his slowness! Why does he run so slow? He's not overweight, he looks sort of fast. I'm just sick of his slow grounders deep in the hole, and he gets thrown out by a mile at first base. I remember he hit a soft gorunder to short, the SS bobbled, kicked it twice, paused because he thought he made an error, and then threw Konerko out at first. Why is he so slow?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 05:42 PM
Buddy Lee was the inanimate Lee Jeans mascot. Arguably, his range was about as good as Royce's.

And just like Royce Clayton...

:buddylee
"I've got a fielding percentage record that will probably last forever!"

:ohno
"I wonder if Buddy Lee wears tennis shoes on the bench, too?"

mweflen
06-17-2005, 05:46 PM
And just like Royce Clayton...

:buddylee
"I've got a fielding percentage record that will probably last forever!"

:ohno
"I wonder if Buddy Lee wears tennis shoes on the bench, too?"

Okay, I get this part... now why is there a "Friends of Buddy Lee" nickname? Was there some thread along the lines of "Cell I mean Sell" that inspired this?

PicktoCLick72
06-17-2005, 05:47 PM
Wow so Paul Konerko thinks Royce is a good shortstop. How dare he not say Uribe was. Some people think Paul Konerko should leave becasue he says stuff. Shutup. Paul is allowed to have an opinion. Just because people don't like Konerko does not mean he is a bad player. I'm sick of people going crazy over Paul quotes. His job is too play baseball and that is the only thing we should judge him on.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 05:48 PM
Okay, I get this part... now why is there a "Friends of Buddy Lee" nickname? Was there some thread along the lines of "Cell I mean Sell" that inspired this?The wars between the FOB's and the BOM's (Backers of Manos) in 2001-2 were truly cataclysmic. There has never been anything like them since.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 05:50 PM
Wow so Paul Konerko thinks Royce is a good shortstop. How dare he not say Uribe was. Some people think Paul Konerko should leave becasue he says stuff. Shutup. Paul is allowed to have an opinion. Just because people don't like Konerko does not mean he is a bad player. I'm sick of people going crazy over Paul quotes. His job is too play baseball and that is the only thing we should judge him on.You shut up. Who died and put you in charge? Does being a good teammate enter into the job description? Some of us think it does.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 05:50 PM
The wars between the FOB's and the BOM's (Backers of Manos) in 2001-2 were truly cataclysmic. There has never been anything like them since.

But why Buddy Lee? What is the origin of the reference? Did Manos not like to wear Lee Jeans? Or does "Buddy Lee" refer to Royce the Choice in some extremely abstract way?

This is tantalizing me. It's like the references to the Clone Wars in Episode 4. I just hope this story turns out much better than Ep's 1-3...:redneck

Flight #24
06-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Wow so Paul Konerko thinks Royce is a good shortstop. How dare he not say Uribe was. Some people think Paul Konerko should leave becasue he says stuff. Shutup. Paul is allowed to have an opinion. Just because people don't like Konerko does not mean he is a bad player. I'm sick of people going crazy over Paul quotes. His job is too play baseball and that is the only thing we should judge him on.
Oy. Once again, and slowly...

It's not that Konerko should have said "nope, best ever is Uribe". It's just interesting that the "team leader", "clubhouse guy" has in a couple of instances, jumped to attack teammates, going at least slightly overboard in doing so (i.e. not saying "I don't know, I'll have to talk to Juan and see what happened", but rather "You don't do that"). Similarly, he goes at least slightly beyond the call to defend Royce, who's not only not a teammate, but was also pretty much acknowledged to be a cancer when he was here.

That combination should tell you that his #1 priority is NOT defending his teammates. I.e., he's NOT the "clubhouse" or "good team" guy. That doesn't mean he's a cancer, but he's certainly a lot closer to that than a team leader.

Meanwhile, his performances in the field and at the plate speak for themselves. And they say "I'm good, but not great, and certainly not worth $9mil".

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 05:54 PM
But why Buddy Lee? What is the origin of the reference? Did Manos not like to wear Lee Jeans? Or does "Buddy Lee" refer to Royce the Choice in some extremely abstract way?The FOB's loved Buddy Lee, the BOM's wanted him off the team and Manos moved back to short.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 05:54 PM
You shut up. Who died and put you in charge? Does being a good teammate enter into the job description? Some of us think it does.

It's amazing, isn't it? First we're told we need GIDPauleee because he's a good teammate. Now we have an aPaulogist claiming we ought to judge him strictly on his playing performance only.

Why am I laughing about this new twist in defense from the aPaulogists since it was never invoked last month when GIDPauleee was floating at the Mendoza Line?

:roflmao:

mweflen
06-17-2005, 05:54 PM
The FOB's loved Buddy Lee, the BOM's wanted him off the team and Manos moved back to short.

Okay - so Buddy Lee is some weird reference to Royce the Choice?

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 05:55 PM
Okay - so Buddy Lee is some weird reference to Royce the Choice?Cheeses explained it and I posted links. Buddy Lee and The Choice have the same range.

cheeses_h_rice
06-17-2005, 05:58 PM
FWC and Daver give birth to the Legend of Buddy Lee (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=44153&postcount=30).

Flight #24
06-17-2005, 05:59 PM
Okay - so Buddy Lee is some weird reference to Royce the Choice?

Buddy Lee = Royce Clayton because they have similar range, and would have similar FPcts. Coincidentally, they'd also hit for a similar average, but Choice would have a lower OBP because while he'd jump out of the way of an inside pitch, BLee would take one for the team.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 06:00 PM
Newsflash: We don't have anybody who is Mr. October. We haven't been in the playoffs in five years. Thomas is a first ballot HOF'er, and he sucked in the 2000 postseason, just like Konerko did. If that's the qualification we're using, we don't have anybody who is worth a damn.

What is so endearing about Konerko? Well, since the start of 2004, he's the most productive offensive first baseman this side of Pujols. That simple. Look at the HRs and RBIs. .

um - do you hear what you're saying? man, i bet both sides of your mouth are sore from you talking out of them so much:

a.) you said "chemistry doesn't matter - look at the 70 A's and the Michael Jordan Bulls"

b.) you said "we don't have any mr. octobers" (I assume you would concede we have no MJ's either

So what then? If you'll notice - winning teams without stars need to have a good chemistry - or at least not be backstabbing.

I hate Torii Hunter and Dougie Doug, but at least they save their **** talking for the other teams. JESUS. When will the GIDPK love affair end?

As for your productivity comment...well I don't know how to deal with that assertion rationally

JRIG
06-17-2005, 06:01 PM
It's amazing, isn't it? First we're told we need GIDPauleee because he's a good teammate. Now we have an aPaulogist claiming we ought to judge him strictly on his playing performance only.

Why am I laughing about this new twist in defense from the aPaulogists since it was never invoked last month when GIDPauleee was floating at the Mendoza Line?

:roflmao:

GIDPaulie is a great teammate. Who else would pass up on all those RBI chances just to let the 5 and 6 hitters some chances? Who else is better at turning the 3-6-3 double play, both in the field and at the plate? Who else can shoot his mouth off in the clubhouse, insulting the best player in franchise history while injured, defending a Flub, and then singing the praises of one of the worst acquisitions in club history?

Man. Some people just don't get it.

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 06:01 PM
Buddy Lee = Royce Clayton because they have similar range, and would have similar FPcts. Coincidentally, they'd also hit for a similar average, but Choice would have a lower OBP because while he'd jump out of the way of an inside pitch, BLee would take one for the team.:rolling:

MRKARNO
06-17-2005, 06:03 PM
FWIW, Clayton's Zone Rating is the worst among all major league shortstops.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 06:03 PM
Wow so Paul Konerko thinks Royce is a good shortstop. How dare he not say Uribe was. Some people think Paul Konerko should leave becasue he says stuff. Shutup. Paul is allowed to have an opinion. Just because people don't like Konerko does not mean he is a bad player. I'm sick of people going crazy over Paul quotes. His job is too play baseball and that is the only thing we should judge him on.

ok. let's judge him as a player.

he's hitting .2-****ty, playing below average defense...oh and as a PLAYER, a big part of whose job is talking to the press, he says stupid, frustrating verbal vomit.

I give him a...well, a bad grade. AS A PLAYER.

mweflen
06-17-2005, 06:03 PM
FWC and Daver give birth to the Legend of Buddy Lee (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=44153&postcount=30).

Now there's an image I could have done without...
:kermit

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 06:03 PM
FWC and Daver give birth to the Legend of Buddy Lee (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=44153&postcount=30).LMAO!! Between Buddy Lee at short and the Fire Hydrant at second, those Sox had to cover less ground than a postage stamp.

JRIG
06-17-2005, 06:05 PM
FWIW, Clayton's Zone Rating is the worst among all major league shortstops.

:thud:

{I don't think I can put one of those in teal}

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 06:07 PM
:thud:

{I don't think I can put one of those in teal}:roflmao:

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 06:08 PM
FWIW, Clayton's Zone Rating is the worst among all major league shortstops.

Yep, that Paul Konerko sure knows his baseball!

:roflmao:

Where's rdwj to straighten out those propellerheads at STATS, Inc.? How dare they second-guess our Clubhouse Cato, the man that put the "G" into "GIDP", our guy Paulie!!!

:cool:

Jjav829
06-17-2005, 06:18 PM
O god. I'm not even going to bother reading this thread because I can sense the overreaction without even reading it.

:whocares

It's his opinion. Who the **** cares? He's not obligated to lie in order to defend his teammate. If someone asked Juan Uribe who the best first baseman he's even played with is, I'm sure he'd say Todd Helton. Who gives a flying ****? It's Konerko's opinion. He's allowed to have his opinion on who is the best shortstop he's played with. It's just his opinion. Saying Clayton is a good SS isn't even necessarily an insult to Uribe.

Man, I thought the overreaction around here was limited to postgame threads....:rolleyes:

MRKARNO
06-17-2005, 06:21 PM
Yep, that Paul Konerko sure knows his baseball!

:roflmao:

Where's SkyMofo to straighten out those propellerheads at STATS, Inc.? How dare they second-guess our Clubhouse Cato, the man that put the "G" into "GIDP", our guy Paulie!!!

:cool:

And to boot, Uribe's Zone Rating is the second highest among AL Shortstops behind Angel Berroa and more than 100 pts higher than that of Clayton.

Since 2000, Clayton was most probably the worst SS that Konerko played with, defensively and offensively.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 06:31 PM
O god. I'm not even going to bother reading this thread because I can sense the overreaction without even reading it.

:whocares

It's his opinion. Who the **** cares? He's not obligated to lie in order to defend his teammate. If someone asked Juan Uribe who the best first baseman he's even played with is, I'm sure he'd say Todd Helton. Who gives a flying ****? It's Konerko's opinion. He's allowed to have his opinion on who is the best shortstop he's played with. It's just his opinion. Saying Clayton is a good SS isn't even necessarily an insult to Uribe.

Man, I thought the overreaction around here was limited to postgame threads....:rolleyes:

the issue isn't that he didn't lie to defend a teammate.

it's that he ignored reality in order to defend a non-teammate...opponent in fact.

i hardly think it's overreaction when placed in line with all the other crap paulie's pulled in his career.

Jurr
06-17-2005, 06:31 PM
I'll tell you what. The Paul Konerko/ FOGIDPK schism in the church should be sponsored by Heinz...no doubt. Every time it comes up, it rains tomatoes!!!

DickAllen72
06-17-2005, 06:33 PM
I don't know why Paulie is so revered among Sox fans? I just can't stand his slowness! Why does he run so slow? He's not overweight, he looks sort of fast. I'm just sick of his slow grounders deep in the hole, and he gets thrown out by a mile at first base. I remember he hit a soft gorunder to short, the SS bobbled, kicked it twice, paused because he thought he made an error, and then threw Konerko out at first. Why is he so slow?

He has a chronic problem with his hips. He doesn't have the normal full range of motion with his hips, if I remember what I once read correctly.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 06:36 PM
I'll tell you what. The Paul Konerko/ FOGIDPK schism in the church should be sponsored by Heinz...no doubt. Every time it comes up, it rains tomatoes!!!

:roflmao:

Excellent post!

maurice
06-17-2005, 06:37 PM
Nobody's saying that he should have lied to defend a teammate. In fact, he didn't have to say anything along these lines at all. He wasn't asked whether Clayton was better than Uribe, et al. He volunteered the comparison.

Besides, it's hardly a lie to say that Uribe is better than Buddy Lee.

maurice
06-17-2005, 06:45 PM
Well, since the start of 2004, [Konerko]'s the most productive offensive first baseman this side of Pujols.

Leading the team in RBIs while batting .230 sounds like timely hitting to me.

Personally I felt embarrassed at Uribe's Decoy

Is he worth 8.75 mil? I think so.

:tealtutor: :tealpolice:

let's remember that Uribe has only been our full-time shortstop for 65 games.

But before that he was the starting SS for Colorado, where he was excellent defensively but couldn't hit. It's not like he's been a 2B his whole life and suddenly started playing SS well.

Jjav829
06-17-2005, 06:53 PM
the issue isn't that he didn't lie to defend a teammate.

it's that he ignored reality in order to defend a non-teammate...opponent in fact.

i hardly think it's overreaction when placed in line with all the other crap paulie's pulled in his career.

It's still his opinion! You can disagree with him if you want, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is simply his opinion. And he's talking about defense, possibly the most subjective part of baseball. I seriously doubt Konerko sat down and did a study of the zone ratings and range factors of every shortstop he has played with before he came to this conclusion. He's simply speaking from his experiences on the field. What he is drawing from, I don't know. Maybe Clayton gave him the most accurate throws. Who knows.

It just seems like at this point, anything Konerko says gets blown out of proportion. Or should I say anything that can be blown out of proportion gets blown out of proportion. When Konerko calls Frank Thomas a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer, everyone gets quiet. In referencing Konerko, everyone talks about his comments on Thomas. No one talks about Konerko calling Thomas a good person.

I guess it's kind of like the Frank situation. Some people choose to take the things Frank says out of proportion. Only it seems like nowadays, anything Konerko says gets blown out of proportion by some.

maurice
06-17-2005, 06:56 PM
What if somebody asked him about Valentin's injury and he said "Jose Valentin is the best hitter I ever played with; it's not even close"? Would that be okay too? After all, it's just his opinion.

I, for one, would react the same way . . . defending Frank and criticizing Konerko for his inability to differentiate between excellent and mediocre.

It probably doesn't deserve a 190-post thread, but neither does a positive comment. After all, you're supposed to make positive comments concerning your current teammates (as opposed to negative comments favoring non-teammates).

JB98
06-17-2005, 07:00 PM
:?: Konerko publicly rips Uribe (this is not open to any debate whatsoever) defending a Flub. A brief time later Konerko sings the praises of former Sox cancer Buddy Lee. Connected? Not 100%, but the possibility is certainly there. You can defend him all you want, but he's definitely a media whore with a big mouth. I never said we were better off without him at this point in time. I would not pay him huge money going forward. I find defending his less than team oriented, attention grabbing behavior, as the Apaulogists do, ludicrous.

Well, if we're going to railroad less-than-team-oriented, attention-grabbing behavior, then we have to railroad both Konerko and Thomas. I'm not willing to do that because I like both of them.

JB98
06-17-2005, 07:04 PM
um - do you hear what you're saying? man, i bet both sides of your mouth are sore from you talking out of them so much:

a.) you said "chemistry doesn't matter - look at the 70 A's and the Michael Jordan Bulls"

b.) you said "we don't have any mr. octobers" (I assume you would concede we have no MJ's either

So what then? If you'll notice - winning teams without stars need to have a good chemistry - or at least not be backstabbing.

I hate Torii Hunter and Dougie Doug, but at least they save their **** talking for the other teams. JESUS. When will the GIDPK love affair end?

As for your productivity comment...well I don't know how to deal with that assertion rationally

Since the start of 2004, Pujols is the only player in baseball with more homers than Konerko. Currently, Paul ranks third in the AL in HRs and fifth in RBIs. Given the opportunities he's had, he should probably be leading in RBIs. I'll give you that. But the run-production numbers still rank among the best in the league.

Chemistry is a cliche, and we don't have any Mr. Octobers. I stand by my comments.

EDIT: Paul is fourth in HRs and ninth in RBIs. Quite a few guys bunched together on the AL leaderboard.

Realist
06-17-2005, 07:05 PM
Another Konerko thread? Okay. Here's my contribution:

:dancers:

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 07:11 PM
Well, if we're going to railroad less-than-team-oriented, attention-grabbing behavior, then we have to railroad both Konerko and Thomas. I'm not willing to do that because I like both of them.How did Frank get into this? Which current teammates has he been publicly ripping? I must have missed something. :?:

Jjav829
06-17-2005, 07:13 PM
What if somebody asked him about Valentin's injury and he said "Jose Valentin is the best hitter I ever played with; it's not even close"? Would that be okay too? After all, it's just his opinion.

I, for one, would react the same way . . . defending Frank and criticizing Konerko for his inability to differentiate between excellent and mediocre.

It probably doesn't deserve a 190-post thread, but neither does a positive comment. After all, you're supposed to make positive comments concerning your current teammates (as opposed to negative comments favoring non-teammates).

Well, he'd be an idiot for having that opinion, just like you can say he's an idiot for thinking Clayton is the best defensive shortstop he has played with. But he wouldn't be any worse a teammate because he's complimenting a player on a different team.

No, it doesn't deserve a 190-post thread, which was exactly my point. This is a complete overreaction about a comment that isn't even very harmful. The next time Konerko makes a positive comment about a teammate, I'm going to start a thread on it. I bet it doesn't reach 50 posts.

Also, don't fool yourself. There are plenty of positive comments made by players in baseball when talking about players on other teams. I suppose all these players are cancers? I suppose when a player calls Barry Bonds the best player in baseball, that player is being a bad teammate. I could probably find 50 examples of this type of bad teammate if I wanted to. In fact, on a very brief search I can find Jeff Bagwell, Curt Schilling and Bobby Cox calling Bonds the best player ever. Shouldn't Jeff Bagwell be reserving comments like that for Lance Berkman? Shouldn't Curt Schilling be saying such things about Manny Ramirez? Why isn't Bobby Cox calling Chipper Jones the best player ever?

maurice
06-17-2005, 07:14 PM
This year, Konerko is tied for 5th in HR . . . but he's only 41st in SLG, mostly because he has only 6 2Bs (not a typo) -- tied for 243rd in the league. Every single player ranked in front of him in these categories is capable of playing 1B. Most make less than $8.75 mil / year.

Konerko also is tied for 18th in RBI. Given his crappy AVE w/ RiSP, this is due almost entirely to the excellent play of the players batting in front of him.

maurice
06-17-2005, 07:19 PM
Well, he'd be an idiot for having that opinion, just like you can say he's an idiot for thinking Clayton is the best defensive shortstop he has played with. . . . No, it doesn't deserve a 190-post thread, which was exactly my point.

Then we're in complete agreement.

There are plenty of positive comments made by players in baseball when talking about players on other teams.

I think you need to go back and read the other posts. If he just said that Clayton was a good SS, there probably still would be a thread about it, but it wouldn't be nearly this long. The primary complaint, as I understand it, is that he foolishly turned his praise into a comparison, which tacitly insults evey other SS he played with, including his current SS.

Malicious? Probably not. Dumb? Absolutely.

JB98
06-17-2005, 07:28 PM
How did Frank get into this? Which current teammates has he been publicly ripping? I must have missed something. :?:

Don't play dumb, West. You know Frank's history. How many times has he talked to the media about his contract at just the worst possible moment? He has foot-in-the-mouth disease just like Konerko. Frank is often too candid for his own good, just like Konerko.

However, I just don't care about what is said in the papers. I just want them to hit the ball.

RallyBowl
06-17-2005, 07:30 PM
:walnuts "Jerry Manuel was the best coach I ever played for."

Norberto7
06-17-2005, 07:34 PM
I predict double tomatoes, minimum.


:cleo

"Just call me Baby Fisk, ya?"

:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

:worship:

Jjav829
06-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Then we're in complete agreement.

I think you need to go back and read the other posts. If he just said that Clayton was a good SS, there probably still would be a thread about it, but it wouldn't be nearly this long. The primary complaint, as I understand it, is that he foolishly turned his praise into a comparison, which tacitly insults evey other SS he played with, including his current SS.

Malicious? Probably not. Dumb? Absolutely.

I'd rather not read 190 posts on this subject. I took a minute to look at some more posts and saw what I expected. More of the same crap that has been in about 700 threads by now. It's a typical overblown Konerko thread. It's about the only thing that challenges the overblown postgame threads after a loss.

Hell, this isn't even the worst thing that has been said by a Sox player in the past 3 days.

JB98
06-17-2005, 07:41 PM
I'd rather not read 190 posts on this subject. I took a minute to look at some more posts and saw what I expected. More of the same crap that has been in about 700 threads by now. It's a typical overblown Konerko thread. It's about the only thing that challenges the overblown postgame threads after a loss.

Hell, this isn't even the worst thing that has been said by a Sox player in the past 3 days.

You really summed it up well, Jjav. I have to admit that. This is a tempest in a teapot, just like the Everett thing.

Is it game time yet? Let's all move on....

RKMeibalane
06-17-2005, 07:51 PM
Yes, they were.

Oh, geez...

nedlug
06-17-2005, 07:52 PM
Wow, this topic really blew up fast...

Guys, all Paulie said was that Rolls-Royce was the best defensive SS he's ever played with. This is true! However, the mediots took him a bit out of context and are trying to rain on the WS's parade because they want 'the scoop'... this thread is ridiculous, and everyone talking about trading Paulie needs to relax...

RKMeibalane
06-17-2005, 07:53 PM
As expected, we've arrived at double-tomato land...

:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

It seems as though every thread that has "Konerko" included in the title generates at least one hundred replies. To test this theory, I'm going to post a thread that just says "Paul Konerko," in order to see how many people bother to respond to it.

nedlug
06-17-2005, 07:54 PM
:walnuts "Jerry Manuel was the best coach I ever played for."

:walnuts
"Rick White was the best RP I ever saw."

RKMeibalane
06-17-2005, 07:59 PM
:walnuts
"Rick White was the best RP I ever saw."

:walnuts

"Julio Ramirez has the talent to win a batting title."

FarWestChicago
06-17-2005, 08:04 PM
Don't play dumb, West. You know Frank's history. How many times has he talked to the media about his contract at just the worst possible moment? He has foot-in-the-mouth disease just like Konerko. Frank is often too candid for his own good, just like Konerko.

However, I just don't care about what is said in the papers. I just want them to hit the ball.:?: What the heck does Frank's contract have to do with Paulie back stabbing teammates? I see absolutely no connection at all.

RKMeibalane
06-17-2005, 08:05 PM
:?: What the heck does Frank's contract have to do with Paulie back stabbing teammates? I see absolutely no connection at all.

I don't, either. People complain about money all the time, but most people have enough class to avoid trashing their collegues behind their backs. Konerko doesn't. End of story.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 08:10 PM
Don't play dumb, West. You know Frank's history. How many times has he talked to the media about his contract at just the worst possible moment? He has foot-in-the-mouth disease just like Konerko. Frank is often too candid for his own good, just like Konerko.

Dumb? Who's dumb? Since when is "C-o-n-t-r-a-c-t" pronounced "teammate"?
:o:

You're obviously confused. It was KONERKO talking about his TEAMMMATE Frank Thomas when he went bellyaching to the press about what THOMAS was saying about his CONTRACT.

:nuts:

But GIDPauleee is still a great TEAMMATE, right?
:kukoo:


However, I just don't care about what is said in the papers. I just want them to hit the ball.

And once again, yet another aPaulogist wants us to ignore his ****ing motormouth and pretend it's all about hitting skill -- nevermind this line of thinking last month when he was Mario Mendoza reincarnate.
:kukoo:

And then they complain that we're the ones overreacting, responding to this sort of delusional nonsense.
:cool:

RallyBowl
06-17-2005, 08:14 PM
PHG- where is todays game thread?

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 08:31 PM
PHG- where is todays game thread?

Hey! No hijacking this thread!

Go look again.

:wink:

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 08:33 PM
It's still his opinion! You can disagree with him if you want, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is simply his opinion. And he's talking about defense, possibly the most subjective part of baseball. I seriously doubt Konerko sat down and did a study of the zone ratings and range factors of every shortstop he has played with before he came to this conclusion. He's simply speaking from his experiences on the field. What he is drawing from, I don't know. Maybe Clayton gave him the most accurate throws. Who knows.
.


that's still not the point. notice how most of this board disagrees with carl's opinion, and yet most will let him hold it.

the POINT. Is. Paul. Is. Eager. To. Jump. To. The. Defense. Of. Opponents. (Lee and Royce). He. Has. Yet. To. Defend. His. Own. Teammates. In. Any. Way. Shape. Or. Form.

Why? I would think because he loves the sound of his own voice? Maybe?

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 08:35 PM
Since the start of 2004, Pujols is the only player in baseball with more homers than Konerko. Currently, Paul ranks third in the AL in HRs and fifth in RBIs. Given the opportunities he's had, he should probably be leading in RBIs. I'll give you that. But the run-production numbers still rank among the best in the league.

Chemistry is a cliche, and we don't have any Mr. Octobers. I stand by my comments.

EDIT: Paul is fourth in HRs and ninth in RBIs. Quite a few guys bunched together on the AL leaderboard.
let me explain to you how you are being moronic:

you use the 1993 bulls and 1970 a's as examples of why chemistry does not exist. Those teams did not need chemistry as much as a lesser team because they had reggie and michael. Other teams with no stars have been successful beyond their means (some might say 1959 white sox). Most people call that chemistry. You might call it an outlier you throw away because it does not fit your conclusion. I call you moronotti if that's the case. either that or jeremyb. Whichever.

at any rate:

home runs and rbis are not production. ops is production.

learn your terms. Paulie's slg is not even up with the big boys. Get out of here please.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-17-2005, 08:43 PM
I think you need to go back and read the other posts. If he just said that Clayton was a good SS, there probably still would be a thread about it, but it wouldn't be nearly this long. The primary complaint, as I understand it, is that he foolishly turned his praise into a comparison, which tacitly insults evey other SS he played with, including his current SS.

Malicious? Probably not. Dumb? Absolutely.

You missed one. Good teammate? Not on your life.

shoota
06-17-2005, 09:46 PM
The next time Konerko makes a positive comment about a teammate, I'm going to start a thread on it. I bet it doesn't reach 50 posts.

Konerko made very complimentary comments about Frank Thomas pregame on Comcast. He responded to a question asking how Frank could hit so well so soon after injury, by saying something like, "Because Frank's a great hitter." Konerko followed that with more positive comments about Thomas.

Earlier in the interview he went out of his way to compliment Thomas when he wasn't even prompted to talk about him. Konerko was asked how it feels to be done with the away interleague schedule. Konerko responded saying it's good because the team will benefit by having Thomas in the lineup on a regular basis.

For the record, Paulie is not a dead pull hitter. He's been hitting behind runners for years, playing smartball before Ozzie even returned to Chicago. And he does look the other way often, including tonight when his single to right drove in the first two runs of the night.

JB98, thanks for the statistics on Konerko. I didn't know that since 2004, Konerko's second in MLB to Pujols in home runs. Or that he ranks as high as he does in power numbers this season.

voodoochile
06-17-2005, 10:08 PM
How did Frank get into this? Which current teammates has he been publicly ripping? I must have missed something. :?:

It's SOP for th aPaulogists whenever they start getting roundly trashed in an argument. GIDPK sucks... well... how's your mother... I mean... Frank sucks too... I mean... I know you are, but what is Paul?

Thanks for the laugh folks, this thread is a total winner... 3 maybe 4 posts that qualify as POTW material...

Jurr
06-17-2005, 10:15 PM
........and the beat goes on.


We could be approaching 1,000 posts on this subject.

Frater Perdurabo
06-17-2005, 10:28 PM
including tonight when his single to right drove in the first two runs of the night.

I think Paulie is a member or lurker at WSI. I think all the negative comments he reads motivate him. It's uncanny! Every time I new triple-tomato Paulie thread comes up, he has a good game! You all can thank me later.... :redneck

Seriously, though. I congratualte Paulie on his RBI single tonight. I sincerely hope he surges for the rest of the season, because it likely will mean great things for the Sox offense and the team's ability to win more games even when the pitching may be less than we've come to expect (although it's nice to see both timely hitting and GREAT pitching from Buehrle tonight!).

:supernana:

Thank you, Paulie, for coming through when needed tonight!

jake27
06-17-2005, 11:19 PM
i really dont get why everyone here doesnt like clayton. yeah he didnt hit much, but his defense was golden. i would have him over jose "error" valentin. if konerko thinks clayton was good, let him think that. he was with him every day for a few years, in practice and in games. he saw him play a heck a lot more than we have. konerko is entitles to his opinion, and we shouldnt be critizing someones opinion especially if he knows more about the guy than we do.

fquaye149
06-17-2005, 11:33 PM
i really dont get why everyone here doesnt like clayton. yeah he didnt hit much, but his defense was golden. i would have him over jose "error" valentin. if konerko thinks clayton was good, let him think that. he was with him every day for a few years, in practice and in games. he saw him play a heck a lot more than we have. konerko is entitles to his opinion, and we shouldnt be critizing someones opinion especially if he knows more about the guy than we do.

if you still don't understand why royce sucks in the field give me your paypal address so i can send you enough $$$ to buy a clue

Tragg
06-17-2005, 11:48 PM
i really dont get why everyone here doesnt like clayton. yeah he didnt hit much, but his defense was golden.
Clayton was terrible on this team.

Not much in the clubhouse either. Maybe that's the link.

My favorite was Manuel not wanting to pinch hit for this 15 year veteran because that might "hurt his confidence."

Chisox003
06-17-2005, 11:58 PM
Im not about to go through 200+ posts of garbage, but I can tell you all over reacting that there was absolutely nothing to this comment.

Granted Paulie is a moron for persisting to make these comments to the media, but still....Clayton was a good fielder, and is better than any Paulie has played with (Oh no, wait, Valentin? :rolleyes: )

All this comment is is ammunition for the MANY Konerko haters on this site...By tomorrow there will be a handful of "Trade Konerko for JT Snow and cash" threads...Please :rolleyes:

44-22 people, wouldnt worry about it....

Norberto7
06-18-2005, 12:23 AM
:walnuts "Jerry Manuel was the best coach I ever played for."

:walnuts
"Rick White was the best RP I ever saw."

:walnuts

"Julio Ramirez has the talent to win a batting title."

Haha, I want to play this game, too!

:walnuts

"Jose Paniagua is automatic....best I've ever seen."

FarWestChicago
06-18-2005, 02:41 AM
i really dont get why everyone here doesnt like clayton. yeah he didnt hit much, but his defense was golden.Oh my, I would seriously advise not posting when drunk or stoned. You can leave VERY embarrassing things behind. :o:

FarWestChicago
06-18-2005, 02:42 AM
Clayton was a good fielder, and is better than any Paulie has played with Same bong as jake27? Jesus, what are you guys smoking?

doublem23
06-18-2005, 03:02 AM
Same bong as jake27? Jesus, what are you guys smoking?

The fielding percentage, West! The fielding percentage.

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_112381.jpg
That's right, boys and girls. Remember, you don't get an error if you don't throw the ball to anyone.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_117244.jpg
Yup, and if you're going to make the throw, make sure you loft a lollipop so you don't sting your first baseman's hand. I got a pair of RBIs today, so I'm going to head into the locker room and talk about all the guys that don't speak any English.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-18-2005, 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by Chisox003
Clayton was a good fielder, and is better than any Paulie has played with


Same bong as jake27? Jesus, what are you guys smoking?

Ignorance is bliss. At least 003 was honest enough to admit he hadn't read the thread. However it is truly scary that the Friends of Buddy Lee have reemerged at WSI.
:(:

I'll say one thing about this sorry mess. When "baseball fans" so gleefully show off their ignorance, it makes it easy to understand why the Cubune is so successful selling their line of **** at the Urinal.
:cool:

Set a fielding percentage record that will probaby last forever ---> :buddylee

CubsSuckSoBad
06-18-2005, 10:03 AM
Maybe we don't want Konkero to shut up...


Only time he shuts up is when he's not hitting...Get the point?


His teammates are used to that ish by now and probably tune him out....

We need him to hit for now and in the offseason, he can be some other team's problem
Konerko what a :dtroll:

LET's go tonight Mr. Garcia:bandance:

FarWestChicago
06-18-2005, 11:44 AM
However it is truly scary that the Friends of Buddy Lee have reemerged at WSI.I feel like I'm in a George Romero movie. :o: