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Lip Man 1
06-16-2005, 12:58 AM
Just a head up. According to White Sox.com the Dodgers are scheduled to start D.J. Houlton Friday night.

Who?

Exactly....and that's my point.

According to the print edition of The Sporting News this week, Houlton is 'the first rule 5 draft pick in 25 years to remain with the Dodgers.' The story also says Manager Jim Tracy rarely uses him in 'tight situations.'

Let's hope the Sox can figure him out better then Sanata from the Angels and that unknown from the Padres.

Lip

elrod
06-16-2005, 01:03 AM
Houlton pitched a solid game against the Twins last week and got the victory. We better get some good scouting reports on this guy because I'm sick and tired of our guys laying eggs against rookies.

Frater Perdurabo
06-16-2005, 09:28 AM
Houlton pitched a solid game against the Twins last week and got the victory. We better get some good scouting reports on this guy because I'm sick and tired of our guys laying eggs against rookies.

Agreed!

FRANK FORT
06-16-2005, 12:35 PM
Especially since Mark's pitching and has what, (4) no decisions in the last (4) games. Give the guy some runs once in a while.

kittle42
06-16-2005, 12:58 PM
Damn. I knew I should have picked him up in my fantasy league! :smile:

JB98
06-16-2005, 01:20 PM
Houlton pitched a solid game against the Twins last week and got the victory. We better get some good scouting reports on this guy because I'm sick and tired of our guys laying eggs against rookies.

So, the Twins lost to a rookie? I thought the White Sox were the only team that did that.

Obviously, that Minnesota defeat represents a huge failing by the Twins' advance scouting department. Their GM better take a hard look at what they're doing and make drastic changes.

Lip Man 1
06-16-2005, 01:40 PM
JB:

Without having the numbers in front of me perhaps the point is that the Sox seem to have been doing this a lot over the past three seasons.

Lip

bigdommer
06-16-2005, 02:18 PM
Just a head up. According to White Sox.com the Dodgers are scheduled to start D.J. Houlton Friday night.

Who?

Exactly....and that's my point.

According to the print edition of The Sporting News this week, Houlton is 'the first rule 5 draft pick in 25 years to remain with the Dodgers.' The story also says Manager Jim Tracy rarely uses him in 'tight situations.'

Let's hope the Sox can figure him out better then Sanata from the Angels and that unknown from the Padres.

Lip

The unknown from the Padres, Tim Stauffer, was the 4th pick overall in the draft. Although not considered as polished as Mark Prior, Stauffer was even more dominant in college than Prior. Like Prior, he only pitched one season of minor league ball. My point, he is no Rule V sleeper. This kid will be an ace and all-star.

fquaye149
06-16-2005, 02:24 PM
Let's hope the Sox can figure him out better then Sanata from the Angels and that unknown from the Padres.

Lip

Earvin "moonlight" Sanata? :)

Lip Man 1
06-16-2005, 02:28 PM
Dommer:

But as of yet he's not an All Star nor an ace is he?

With as little experience as he's had one would think bona fide major league hitters would be able to solve him and others of his ilk no matter how much 'potential' they may have.

Ever hear of Brian Keyser?

Lip

bigdommer
06-16-2005, 02:42 PM
Dommer:

But as of yet he's not an All Star nor an ace is he?

With as little experience as he's had one would think bona fide major league hitters would be able to solve him and others of his ilk no matter how much 'potential' they may have.

Ever hear of Brian Keyser?

Lip

San Diego was helpless against Jon Garland. I doubt they felt embarrassed because Jon wasn't an all-star or an ace.

Stauffer's hype is not based on potential, as he does not have a monstrous ceiling. His reputation has been based on domination at every previous level. He is also an intellectual guy, a workhorse, and a good person (shown by his admission of injury and concession of signing bonus).

Lip Man 1
06-16-2005, 04:46 PM
Dommer:

And he has practically zero experience or knowledge about how to pitch at the major league level. In time he may be very, very good...but right now he's not. Garland however has won 12 games a season at the big league level for the past three seasons. At least he has some credibility and knowledge of say where the pitching mound is in a major league field.

I just don't think you should lose as often as the Sox have been losing, to these type of pitchers over the past three seasons that's all.

Lip

fquaye149
06-16-2005, 05:05 PM
Dommer:

And he has practically zero experience or knowledge about how to pitch at the major league level. In time he may be very, very good...but right now he's not. Garland however has won 12 games a season at the big league level for the past three seasons. At least he has some credibility and knowledge of say where the pitching mound is in a major league field.

I just don't think you should lose as often as the Sox have been losing, to these type of pitchers over the past three seasons that's all.

Lip

the thing, lip, is that when a pitcher has electric stuff, even if he's inexperienced he can dominate IFF(if and only if) he's on. Did you see the elbow macaroni stauffer was putting on that charlie? It was unbelievable. He was throwing it exactly where he wanted it.

it's certainly not the case of the bats going to sleep - he was just dominant and the only thing to be ashamed of is that we scheduled the game for the wrong day.

beckett21
06-16-2005, 07:11 PM
Ahhh, good 'ol Lip being....well, Lip.

All is right with the world again. :D:

I see your point Lip, but it's pretty hard for me to complain about anything right now. You can't win 'em all. I would think that the pitcher usually has the advantage the first time a team sees him. After all, they ARE Major League pitchers.

Stauffer and Santana will take their lumps, but every once in awhile they are going to do what got them to the Show in the first place. Tip your cap and move on. Please.

Jurr
06-16-2005, 07:15 PM
Ahhh, good 'ol Lip being....well, Lip.

All is right with the world again. :D:

I see your point Lip, but it's pretty hard for me to complain about anything right now. You can't win 'em all. I would think that the pitcher usually has the advantage the first time a team sees him. After all, they ARE Major League pitchers.

Stauffer and Santana will take their lumps, but every once in awhile they are going to do what got them to the Show in the first place. Tip your cap and move on. Please.
Yes, I do believe we have a winner here.

elrod
06-16-2005, 07:39 PM
It will be interesting to see what the Twins do against Stauffer tomorrow night. For the record, Houlton didn't dominate the Twins the way Santana did us (or even Stauffer). The Twinks got 3 runs but that wasn't enough. Santana shut us out, and Stauffer allowed a 1st inning run and nothing else.

owensmouth
06-16-2005, 08:43 PM
Hey, if you really wanta get psycho, consider this: the Dodgers are gonna start Elmer Dressens in the second game (Dressens has two major league starts). Oh, and they have three rookies in their bullpen...

fquaye149
06-16-2005, 09:23 PM
Hey, if you really wanta get psycho, consider this: the Dodgers are gonna start Elmer Dressens in the second game (Dressens has two major league starts). Oh, and they have three rookies in their bullpen...

are you sure that's not elemer DESsens late of the d-backs and cincy reds who has quite a few career starts?

JB98
06-16-2005, 09:27 PM
JB:

Without having the numbers in front of me perhaps the point is that the Sox seem to have been doing this a lot over the past three seasons.

Lip

I don't have the numbers in front of me either, but I know we hammered Jeff Francis in Colorado. We also took care of Gustavo Chacin in Toronto. I'm not buying this business about us being doomed to fail every time we face a rookie pitcher. That Stauffer kid was featuring some nasty stuff in San Diego. I'm more inclined to just give him credit for a good game. I didn't see the game in Anaheim against Santana, but I'm pretty sure we experienced an emotional letdown after the series with the Cubs and a long flight to the West coast. Stuff happens.

JB98
06-16-2005, 09:29 PM
are you sure that's not elemer DESsens late of the d-backs and cincy reds who has quite a few career starts?

Yes, it is the same Elmer Dessens. He's been in the big leagues for several years, and certainly, he has started more than two games at the Major League level.

We'll face Houlton, Dessens and Weaver. We miss Penny and Lowe. Matchup-wise, we are in good shape for this series.

FarWestChicago
06-16-2005, 09:49 PM
I don't have the numbers in front of me either, but I know we hammered Jeff Francis in Colorado. We also took care of Gustavo Chacin in Toronto. I'm not buying this business about us being doomed to fail every time we face a rookie pitcher. That Stauffer kid was featuring some nasty stuff in San Diego. I'm more inclined to just give him credit for a good game. I didn't see the game in Anaheim against Santana, but I'm pretty sure we experienced an emotional letdown after the series with the Cubs and a long flight to the West coast. Stuff happens.Please, you're being rational. This is a Lip is Afraid of His Own Shadow Thread. They are a time honored tradition around here. :rolleyes:

JB98
06-16-2005, 10:03 PM
Please, you're being rational. This is a Lip is Afraid of His Own Shadow Thread. They are a time honored tradition around here. :rolleyes:

I'd also add the two games we lost to those rookies were played on the West coast, which is a traditional pit for us. I don't ever expect an offensive explosion when we play out there. If I'm not mistaken, we're 5-5 in the Pacific time zone this year. That's a dramatic improvement over previous years. If we win half the games we play out there, I'll take it, regardless of which pitchers we face.

MRKARNO
06-16-2005, 10:10 PM
Houlton has actually been pretty solid in his first two starts:

Jun 4 vs Mil 5.1 IP 1 ER 2 K W
June 12 vs Min 7 IP 3 ER 8K W

Then again, we're sending Buehrle against Houlton and Buehrle hasn't given up more than 3 ER since May 3 vs KC, nor has he lost a decision since April 10th and his ERA is 2.32 in 8 starts since the beginning of May.

I like our chances, especially if the wind is neutral or blowing in. If not, keep the ball on the ground, Mark!

THE_HOOTER
06-16-2005, 10:16 PM
Dommer:

But as of yet he's not an All Star nor an ace is he?

With as little experience as he's had one would think bona fide major league hitters would be able to solve him and others of his ilk no matter how much 'potential' they may have.

Ever hear of Brian Keyser?

Lip


How many games have the Sox lost to an unknown rookie?

Even with the best hitting lineup, it has been consistent over the last 4-5 years it seems.

JB98
06-16-2005, 10:21 PM
How many games have the Sox lost to an unknown rookie?

Even with the best hitting lineup, it has been consistent over the last 4-5 years it seems.

The lineup is completely different this year. Podsednik, Iguchi, Dye, AJ, and to some extent Rowand and Uribe, weren't a part of whatever futility there was against unknown rookies in the past.

I promise you, Iguchi is not affected by any of the nonsense we're discussing in this thread. He hasn't seen ANY of the pitchers in the American League, and he's still been hitting between .280 and .300 for most of the year.