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View Full Version : Thomas Talks About His Contract and Future


RKMeibalane
06-14-2005, 09:41 AM
Link (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/141sd2.htm)

1951Campbell
06-14-2005, 10:19 AM
Wow. Sounds like it's "win the ring this year or I'm out" for Big Frank.

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-14-2005, 10:34 AM
Wow. Sounds like it's "win the ring this year or I'm out" for Big Frank.

I wouldn't say that. I think Thomas, in his own way, knows the market isn't much for a 37 yo DH'er with limited glove abilities at 1st base. Maybe he wants a "new" contract to show the team's continued committment to him. Let's be honest - "_______ ball" is winning without homers in the seats. It's nice to have him back, but they didn't get started winning WHEN he got back.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-14-2005, 10:37 AM
Take this with a grain of salt. In fact, take it with an ENTIRE SALT MINE.

It's Tailgunner Joe getting the quotes. How many times do we need to read his **** about "the real story inside the Sox clubhouse" before we realize he has an agenda all his own based only loosely on any sort of reality?

I'm honestly surprised Thomas doesn't come off as a total jerk. Cowley's fishing exhibition obviously didn't garner the Big One he was hoping for.

Willie Harris and Carlos Lee are two hatchet jobs Tailgunner Joe already has in 2005. He's still looking for the hat trick.

mantis1212
06-14-2005, 10:42 AM
I'm honestly surprised Thomas doesn't come off as a total jerk. Cowley's fishing exhibition obviously didn't garner the Big One he was hoping for.

I'm glad that's true, I haven't read the article yet...but when I read the title of this thread, I shuddered. "Thomas", "talking", "contract status" are words I don't ever want to see in the same sentence again.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2005, 10:48 AM
Even though he is 37 and limited with the glove (well, limited in his ability to turn the five 3-6-3 double plays a team might have chance to turn in a season), the Sox would be damn fools to let him leave. All we have to go on are his recent stats:

2003: .952 OPS
2004: .997 OPS
2005: 1.233 OPS (don't give me any limited sample size garbage, either)

Frank is a potent weapon, well worth $10 million per year. This has nothing to do with the fact that I want to keep him in a Sox uniform and head for the HOF after retiring as a member of the team (although I do want that).

It has everything to do with what's best for the team.

If it's a question of money, I'd much rather give up the five or so 3-6-3 double plays that Paul Konerko turns each year and put Ross Gload at first base full time if that means the Sox can spend the money on keeping Frank to DH and have a .900+ OPS. In fact, I'd be comfortable with that for 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - the likely length of Konerko's next contract.

Moreover, Frank has NEVER called out his teammates in the media and genuinely wants to get a ring, even if it means a diminished role for him personally. So much for the "clubhouse cancer" myth.

DumpJerry
06-14-2005, 10:48 AM
Never mind Big Hurt, what's this about Borchard at .250 now? Is this really a story to promote Borchard as Thomas' replacement? Now, that is a scary thought!

Palehose13
06-14-2005, 10:51 AM
From the article, I got the impression that Frank is willing to restructure his contract so that he would come back for less money. I think he wants to stay with the Sox...but then again maybe this entire post should be in deep pink.

voodoochile
06-14-2005, 10:59 AM
From the article, I got the impression that Frank is willing to restructure his contract so that he would come back for less money. I think he wants to stay with the Sox...but then again maybe this entire post should be in deep pink.

I got the same impression. At the least he seemed to be saying he is willing to forgo the 3.5M buyout and sign a contract that both sides can accept.

If the hot start he is off to is any indication, he is going to be a force this year. So much for coming back slow and working his way into the lineup. He is already the most potent power hitter the Sox have and has picked up right where he left off in terms of turning on the inside pitch.

mweflen
06-14-2005, 11:10 AM
Yes, I didn't see any "win it or leave" sentiment at all. Not even a shred. All I took from the article is:

-I know the Sox don't need me.
-I'm willing to restructure my deal again.
-I'd like to stay to finish my career.

Sounds pretty friggin' reasonable to me.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2005, 11:11 AM
If the hot start he is off to is any indication, he is going to be a force this year. So much for coming back slow and working his way into the lineup. He is already the most potent power hitter the Sox have and has picked up right where he left off in terms of turning on the inside pitch.

I've noticed the same thing. Why on Earth the Sox would want to cut ties with him in order to pay Paul Konerko quite frankly is beyond me.

(Unless Ozzie really wants to be like the 85 Cardinals and send both of them them away... :?: )

1951Campbell
06-14-2005, 11:23 AM
Yes, I didn't see any "win it or leave" sentiment at all. Not even a shred. All I took from the article is:

-I know the Sox don't need me.
-I'm willing to restructure my deal again.
-I'd like to stay to finish my career.

Sounds pretty friggin' reasonable to me.

Well, hopefully I'm taking Frank's comments the wrong way and hopefully you're right.

wdelaney72
06-14-2005, 11:36 AM
I've noticed the same thing. Why on Earth the Sox would want to cut ties with him in order to pay Paul Konerko quite frankly is beyond me.

(Unless Ozzie really wants to be like the 85 Cardinals and send both of them them away... :?: )

To pay Paul Konerko????

Paulie isn't even close to earning his current contrat. He'll be taking a pay cut just Frank will.

Overpaid power hitting 1B are dime-a-dozen. I have a feeling some other team is going to overpay for Paulie's services, which is fine with me.

Jjav829
06-14-2005, 11:41 AM
Wow. Sounds like it's "win the ring this year or I'm out" for Big Frank.

I didn't take it like that at all. Your statement would seem to imply that Frank has the upper hand here. I took it as Frank accepting that he doesn't have much leverage and knowing that he needs the Sox more than they need him.

rdwj
06-14-2005, 11:42 AM
Frank is a potent weapon, well worth $10 million per year.

You can't be serious!?! I want to keep Frank too, but NOBODY is going to give him $10 million a year - NOBODY!!!

Deadguy
06-14-2005, 11:47 AM
Yes, I didn't see any "win it or leave" sentiment at all. Not even a shred. All I took from the article is:

-I know the Sox don't need me.
-I'm willing to restructure my deal again.
-I'd like to stay to finish my career.

Sounds pretty friggin' reasonable to me.

That's pretty much what I got from the article as well.

I think Frank has been humbled by the game of baseball since 1998, and he knows that the Sox can win with or with out him.

History has shown us that Thomas gave up 17.5 million dollars of guaranteed money to restructure his current contract.

History has also shown that Thomas accepted a contract in 1997 that would have kept him as the 2nd highest player on his own team, per annum, despite the fact that he had just won a batting title and finished 3rd in the league in the MVP voting.

Thomas's past actions and his comments seem to indicate that he wants to remain a part of this organization.

As long as the Sox can guarantee Thomas money in 2007, I think Thomas will waive the option to be bought out in 2006. He just has to prove that he can remain healthy for extended periods of time, and things will work out.

This is hardly the same as Magglio's ridiculous, "I want to stay in Chicago", comment, from last June, which people actually bought into. :rolleyes:

ND_Sox_Fan
06-14-2005, 11:56 AM
He is already the most potent power hitter the Sox have and has picked up right where he left off in terms of turning on the inside pitch.

Don't forget about absolutely crushing balls out over the plate for a couple bombs to center.

I have confidence that he will be back next year and still in the 3-hole. The things he has done in the few games he has played in this season is very difficult to find - anywhere.

Jurr
06-14-2005, 12:02 PM
You can't be serious!?! I want to keep Frank too, but NOBODY is going to give him $10 million a year - NOBODY!!!
Yeah...I'd think he would be resigned at 3 years/7-8 mil per. That's a very reasonable contract for him to finish on. If he's asking for 10, he's nuts, unless there's a bunch of incentive clauses in the contract.

I'd much rather have Frank for 3 years than Paulie. Think about it, KW.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2005, 12:12 PM
You can't be serious!?! I want to keep Frank too, but NOBODY is going to give him $10 million a year - NOBODY!!!

If maintains an OPS of around 1.000 in 250+ at bats for the rest of the season, then he is worth every penny of $10 million. That kind of production is not just rare, but precious.

2005 AL OPS leaders (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=al&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=all)

Although he lacks the minimum number of at bats to qualify, Frank's 1.233 OPS this year would LEAD THE AMERICAN LEAGUE.

In fact, among ALL AL players (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=OPS&minpa=0&split=0&season=2005&pos=all&hand=a&league=al&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&qual=false) who have any at bats whatsoever in 2005, Frank is 10th in OPS. The nine ahead of him are pitchers who have gotten lucky in fewer than six at bats (C.C. Sabathia) and in most cases just 1, 2, or 3 trips to the plate (Cliff Politte has a 2.000 OPS!).

Yes, Frank has limited sample size so far in 2005, but in that limited duty so far, he has a higher OPS than Alex Rodriguez, Derrek Lee and Brian Roberts. Given the fact that he was fourth with a .997 OPS last year, his performance is not a fluke or outlier, but rather in line with his career OPS!

A DH with a 1.000 OPS definitely is worth $10 million.

Jurr
06-14-2005, 12:16 PM
If maintains an OPS of around 1.000 in 250+ at bats for the rest of the season, then he is worth every penny of $10 million. That kind of production is not just rare, but precious.

2005 AL OPS leaders (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=al&season=2005&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=all)

Although he lacks the minimum number of at bats to qualify, Frank's 1.233 OPS this year would LEAD THE AMERICAN LEAGUE.

In fact, among ALL AL players (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=OPS&minpa=0&split=0&season=2005&pos=all&hand=a&league=al&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&qual=false) who have any at bats whatsoever in 2005, Frank is 10th in OPS. The nine ahead of him are pitchers who have gotten lucky in fewer than six at bats (C.C. Sabathia) and in most cases just 1, 2, or 3 trips to the plate (Cliff Politte has a 2.000 OPS!).

Yes, Frank has limited sample size so far in 2005, but in that limited duty so far, he has a higher OPS than Alex Rodriguez, Derrek Lee and Brian Roberts. Given the fact that he was fourth with a .997 OPS last year, his performance is not a fluke or outlier, but rather in line with his career OPS!

A DH with a 1.000 OPS definitely is worth $10 million.
Very well put, but he won't get any offers of 10 million per with his injury history. That foot problem could resurface at any time, and it's not worth that huge a risk.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2005, 12:22 PM
Very well put, but he won't get any offers of 10 million per with his injury history. That foot problem could resurface at any time, and it's not worth that huge a risk.

What's the risk? It's ONE season. Still, I agree the Sox SHOULD renegotiate a multiyear deal for Frank to DH full time for $7-$8 million per year through 2008 or 2009 so he can (1) anchor the lineup batting behind Podsednik and Iguchi in order to help the Sox continue to win, (2) surpass 500 home runs and (3) retire in a Sox uniform, set for a 2014 HOF induction.

voodoochile
06-14-2005, 12:24 PM
Very well put, but he won't get any offers of 10 million per with his injury history. That foot problem could resurface at any time, and it's not worth that huge a risk.

I don't think anyone will offer it to him, but Frank is worth it.

The two seem to be different discussions, IMO.

Jurr
06-14-2005, 12:39 PM
What's the risk? It's ONE season. Still, I agree the Sox SHOULD renegotiate a multiyear deal for Frank to DH full time for $7-$8 million per year through 2008 or 2009 so he can (1) anchor the lineup batting behind Podsednik and Iguchi in order to help the Sox continue to win, (2) surpass 500 home runs and (3) retire in a Sox uniform, set for a 2014 HOF induction.
Exactly...a couple of posts ago, that's what I said I thought would happen. 3 years at 7-8 million per. That's reasonable. I just can't see a team breaking double digits a year for him, though he IS worth it.

Flight #24
06-14-2005, 12:49 PM
Exactly...a couple of posts ago, that's what I said I thought would happen. 3 years at 7-8 million per. That's reasonable. I just can't see a team breaking double digits a year for him, though he IS worth it.

Another factor to consider is what teams have needs at DH and which of those might be interested in a 37-year old hitter. Boston, NY, Baltimore all have decent or better guys there and are unlikely to spend the $$$ to upgrade to a Frank. Anaheim & Texas are possibilities. Twins are out.

All of this makes it more likely that Frank would take the 7-8mil to stay because there are few alternatives unless he wants to go to a non-contender. And at 7-8mil per year, Frank Thomas production is a bargain, and for 2006, keeping Frank at a net increase of 4.5mil (8 mil less the 3.5 buyout) - well, that's about as much of a no-brainer as you can get.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2005, 01:26 PM
Exactly...a couple of posts ago, that's what I said I thought would happen. 3 years at 7-8 million per. That's reasonable. I just can't see a team breaking double digits a year for him, though he IS worth it.

Your original proposal of $7M-$8M/year prompted me to "second" you motion. Glad to see we think alike! All in favor, please say AYE....

BaseballTonyght
06-14-2005, 01:36 PM
-I know the Sox don't need me.
-I'm willing to restructure my deal again.
-I'd like to stay to finish my career.


That's exactly what I took from it. Frank has to retire on the South Side... he just has to.

wdelaney72
06-14-2005, 01:46 PM
Frank will be lucky to get $5 million per year. I want him back, but
a) He can't play the field... at all.
b) His health IS unreliable and it has been for more than one season.
c) No other team will pay him what the Sox will. He's already tried that one.

Like I said, I want him back, and I think he will be back. I just think your salary projections are a little high. Guaranteeing him $15 million over 3 years is way more than any other team will be willing to do.

Frater Perdurabo
06-14-2005, 01:50 PM
Frank will be lucky to get $5 million per year. I want him back, but
a) He can't play the field... at all.
b) His health IS unreliable and it has been for more than one season.
c) No other team will pay him what the Sox will. He's already tried that one.


Your "a" and "b" points are completely related. He's been injured because he's been asked to play the field specifically because both Jerry Manuel and Ozzie Guillen so preferred to have his bat in the lineup that they were willing to give up Konerko's ability to turn the 3-6-3 double play. Both his injuries came from playing first base. Two years ago I would have said to have him at first base. But now, they need to keep his bat in the lineup "at all costs." Thankfully, they should be able to get him to be the full-time DH at $7M-$8M per season.

Jurr
06-14-2005, 01:53 PM
Your "a" and "b" points are completely related. He's been injured because he's been asked to play the field specifically because both Jerry Manuel and Ozzie Guillen so preferred to have his bat in the lineup that they were willing to give up Konerko's ability to turn the 3-6-3 double play. Both his injuries came from playing first base. Two years ago I would have said to have him at first base. But now, they need to keep his bat in the lineup "at all costs." Thankfully, they should be able to get him to be the full-time DH at $7M-$8M per season.
Frank's torn triceps muscle came from playing first base. His navicular fracture was a stress fracture developed from his swinging motion. His front foot takes all of the impact of his swing, and at his weight, the bone couldn't take it anymore.

wdelaney72
06-14-2005, 02:03 PM
Frank's torn triceps muscle came from playing first base. His navicular fracture was a stress fracture developed from his swinging motion. His front foot takes all of the impact of his swing, and at his weight, the bone couldn't take it anymore.

I agree health and playing the field are related, but I still think the market for a full time DH of his age will be $5 million or less. You have to take into consideration the trouble he is still having simply running the bases. He's not any younger and his health needs to be handled with kid gloves. Most teams will look at that and stay away, which will in fact lower his overall value. $15 million guaranteed over three years is good money for a player his age with his limited abilities. I could see something like that with incntives to escalate the value of the contract, should he be able to stay healthy and hit like he obviously still is capable of doing.

Jurr
06-14-2005, 02:06 PM
I agree health and playing the field are related, but I still think the market for a full time DH of his age will be $5 million or less. You have to take into consideration the trouble he is still having simply running the bases. He's not any younger and his health needs to be handled with kid gloves. Most teams will look at that and stay away, which will in fact lower his overall value. $15 million guaranteed over three years is good money for a player his age with his limited abilities. I could see something like that with incntives to escalate the value of the contract, should he be able to stay healthy and hit like he obviously still is capable of doing.
Yeah..I think the one thing that will scare teams away is the fact that he did get a stress fracture in his ankle due to his front foot swing. You get into weight management issues and all kinds of crap, and you don't want to break the bank on a guy that may succumb to another stress fracture in that foot.

I'd still drop 7 or 8 million on him to stay in chicago. Those guys are rare (the guys that stay with the team that drafted them).

wdelaney72
06-14-2005, 02:09 PM
If it comes down to Frank or PK, I'll take Frank in a heartbeat.

Jurr
06-14-2005, 02:34 PM
If it comes down to Frank or PK, I'll take Frank in a heartbeat.
What the hell are you talking about? Frank can't turn a 3-6-3, and you know it!!

Iguana775
06-14-2005, 03:39 PM
Even though he is 37 and limited with the glove (well, limited in his ability to turn the five 3-6-3 double plays a team might have chance to turn in a season), the Sox would be damn fools to let him leave. All we have to go on are his recent stats:

2003: .952 OPS
2004: .997 OPS
2005: 1.233 OPS (don't give me any limited sample size garbage, either)

Frank is a potent weapon, well worth $10 million per year. This has nothing to do with the fact that I want to keep him in a Sox uniform and head for the HOF after retiring as a member of the team (although I do want that).

It has everything to do with what's best for the team.

If it's a question of money, I'd much rather give up the five or so 3-6-3 double plays that Paul Konerko turns each year and put Ross Gload at first base full time if that means the Sox can spend the money on keeping Frank to DH and have a .900+ OPS. In fact, I'd be comfortable with that for 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - the likely length of Konerko's next contract.

Moreover, Frank has NEVER called out his teammates in the media and genuinely wants to get a ring, even if it means a diminished role for him personally. So much for the "clubhouse cancer" myth.

But he's only played in a few games this year!


:redneck

CubsSuckSoBad
06-14-2005, 04:37 PM
You can't be serious!?! I want to keep Frank too, but NOBODY is going to give him $10 million a year - NOBODY!!!

If konerko is getting just under 10 right now, how is frank not worth 10 million?

Frank is getting paid less than Konerko this year...the only reason you can justify this is because of the injuries, but when Frank is in there, he's a MAN...

American League clubs would love to DH him and have him just hit for the next 3 years...

wdelaney72
06-15-2005, 08:22 AM
If konerko is getting just under 10 right now, how is frank not worth 10 million?

Frank is getting paid less than Konerko this year...the only reason you can justify this is because of the injuries, but when Frank is in there, he's a MAN...

American League clubs would love to DH him and have him just hit for the next 3 years...

And once again, I'll point out, Konerko is not earning the value of his current contract. (Even though he's hitting better as of late). Frank had his chance to see exactly how many American League clubs would love to him DH for the next 3 years just 2 seasons ago The number of interested teams... ZERO. Frank is a constant injury risk / concern. He's not going to get anywhere near that kind of money... anywhere. Neither will Paulie. His numbers have cooled off a bit, and I think most teams will shy away from giving him big money cause he's too damn streaky.

Cubbiesuck13
06-15-2005, 06:46 PM
If it comes down to Frank or PK, I'll take Frank in a heartbeat.

For $10 million a year I will take neither. Gload will be an adaquate replacement for Pauly (if he can get healthy) and the $10 million can be better spent on a replacement for Crede.

RKMeibalane
06-15-2005, 09:46 PM
For $10 million a year I will take neither. Gload will be an adaquate replacement for Pauly (if he can get healthy) and the $10 million can be better spent on a replacement for Crede.

Agreed. Frank is a great player, but his recent injury problems raise too many questions about his availibity for whichever team he ends up playing for. He's not worth ten million dollars. I expect the Sox to work out a deal for Frank at 5-6 million for two or three seasons, in order to keep him in Chicago for the rest of his career (Frank says that he's hoping to play about four more seasons). The remainder of the money can be used to, as Cubbiesuck13 said, find an upgrade for 3B, or sign a more experienced closer.

RedPinStripes
06-15-2005, 10:11 PM
If they pay Paulie, they better pay Frank at least the same amount.

MERPER
06-15-2005, 10:39 PM
Nobody is going to give Frank $10 million per... he is 37 and has been suffering injuries the past few years...

That being said, I would be terribly upset if Frank parted ways with the team... he is already a great story for laying off roids in this era, what could be better than him playing with 1 team his whole career...

It's only right that he hit HR #500 wearing the white and black... I'd personally be crushed if he didn't

Also, I heard he has purchased a new house in Chicago somewhere... I know players can play elsewhere and still own houses in other cities, but if Frank really knew/thought he'd be leaving, why purchase another one?

Come back Frank!

White Sox Josh
06-15-2005, 11:23 PM
Nobody is going to give Frank $10 million per... he is 37 and has been suffering injuries the past few years...

That being said, I would be terribly upset if Frank parted ways with the team... he is already a great story for laying off roids in this era, what could be better than him playing with 1 team his whole career...

It's only right that he hit HR #500 wearing the white and black... I'd personally be crushed if he didn't

Also, I heard he has purchased a new house in Chicago somewhere... I know players can play elsewhere and still own houses in other cities, but if Frank really knew/thought he'd be leaving, why purchase another one?

Come back Frank!There is no way in hell that he goes anywhere after the year if he keeps hitting like this. BOOK IT! And Don't worry Frank won't pull a Magg$ on the Sox. He isn't a greedy S.O.B.
:maggs
Why you looking at me?

Flight #24
06-16-2005, 10:20 AM
For $10 million a year I will take neither. Gload will be an adaquate replacement for Pauly (if he can get healthy) and the $10 million can be better spent on a replacement for Crede.

It's not an option to "save" $10mil on Frank. It's an option to possibly save $6.5mil. That is well, well, well worth it. Heck - he's on pace to hit 40HR this year in just over half a season, which would be worth the Sox $12mil option.

I'm with RK though - I think they get an extension done. But I'd guess it's at more like $7-8MM/yr, not $5-6MM.

Cubbiesuck13
06-16-2005, 05:28 PM
It's not an option to "save" $10mil on Frank. It's an option to possibly save $6.5mil. That is well, well, well worth it. Heck - he's on pace to hit 40HR this year in just over half a season, which would be worth the Sox $12mil option.

I'm with RK though - I think they get an extension done. But I'd guess it's at more like $7-8MM/yr, not $5-6MM.

Well Thomas is not worth 7-8 M a year on this team. I don't care how many homres he is 'on pace to hit' because that is such a B.S. stat I can't believe you acaully use that to justify him making $10 million next year. I want Frank on the team next year and all the years he is playing ball but not at the expense of the team. That money would be better off going towards a third baseman or a more consistant 1st baseman. I would rather see the SOX win a WS than see Frank play in a SOX jersey next year.

Flight #24
06-16-2005, 05:48 PM
Well Thomas is not worth 7-8 M a year on this team. I don't care how many homres he is 'on pace to hit' because that is such a B.S. stat I can't believe you acaully use that to justify him making $10 million next year. I want Frank on the team next year and all the years he is playing ball but not at the expense of the team. That money would be better off going towards a third baseman or a more consistant 1st baseman. I would rather see the SOX win a WS than see Frank play in a SOX jersey next year.

The point is that he's quite likely to hit 20-odd HR in just over half a season, while hitting around .300 with a .400OBP. Who exactly are you going to get for $6.5mil that gives you your "more consistant 1st baseman" or 3d baseman?

I'll assume that your "more consistant 1st baseman" entails combining Konerko's $$$ with the savings from Frank. The issue there is - do you really think you're better off with say Todd Helton and then Ross Gload at DH or with Koney & Frank? (Or another 1B for $9mil and Frank?).

Or if you're talking about upgrading from Crede, who exactly is this stud 3B you'll get for the $6.5mil you can save on Frank (and again - it's NOT $10mil, it's $6.5mil)?

Frank will put up an OPS around 1.000. That's a top 10-15 result among all batters. You're desperate enough to swap Joe Crede for a guy like Shea Hillebrand, Vinny Castilla, or Mike Lowell that you'll give up a 1.000 OPS hitter?

You can't sign a hitter for $7mil that'll give you anywhere near Frank's #s. And unfortunately, that's not enough $$$ to get you a true stud at another position. And you're certainly not closer to a WS by replacing Frank with Carl Everett and taking the net savings of 1.5mil and applying that towards upgrading from Joe Crede. Or by using Ross Gload and spending $7mil on a 3B.

Jurr
06-16-2005, 05:59 PM
The point is that he's quite likely to hit 20-odd HR in just over half a season, while hitting around .300 with a .400OBP. Who exactly are you going to get for $6.5mil that gives you your "more consistant 1st baseman" or 3d baseman?

I'll assume that your "more consistant 1st baseman" entails combining Konerko's $$$ with the savings from Frank. The issue there is - do you really think you're better off with say Todd Helton and then Ross Gload at DH or with Koney & Frank? (Or another 1B for $9mil and Frank?).

Or if you're talking about upgrading from Crede, who exactly is this stud 3B you'll get for the $6.5mil you can save on Frank (and again - it's NOT $10mil, it's $6.5mil)?

Frank will put up an OPS around 1.000. That's a top 10-15 result among all batters. You're desperate enough to swap Joe Crede for a guy like Shea Hillebrand, Vinny Castilla, or Mike Lowell that you'll give up a 1.000 OPS hitter?

You can't sign a hitter for $7mil that'll give you anywhere near Frank's #s. And unfortunately, that's not enough $$$ to get you a true stud at another position. And you're certainly not closer to a WS by replacing Frank with Carl Everett and taking the net savings of 1.5mil and applying that towards upgrading from Joe Crede. Or by using Ross Gload and spending $7mil on a 3B.
Well friggin' said!!!!!! You keep Crede, 'cause he's a damn bargain considering his glove and power. You keep Thomas, extending him to 3 yrs. at 7-8. Then, after all that's done, you go after Paulie. If Paulie tries to ask for over 9 million a year, he's done. Keep Gload and bide your time until the NEXT trading deadline. Crede is fine..Frank is worth keeping. Paulie is the one we need to look at.

Cubbiesuck13
06-16-2005, 06:19 PM
The point is that he's quite likely to hit 20-odd HR in just over half a season, while hitting around .300 with a .400OBP. Who exactly are you going to get for $6.5mil that gives you your "more consistant 1st baseman" or 3d baseman?

I'll assume that your "more consistant 1st baseman" entails combining Konerko's $$$ with the savings from Frank. The issue there is - do you really think you're better off with say Todd Helton and then Ross Gload at DH or with Koney & Frank? (Or another 1B for $9mil and Frank?).

Or if you're talking about upgrading from Crede, who exactly is this stud 3B you'll get for the $6.5mil you can save on Frank (and again - it's NOT $10mil, it's $6.5mil)?

Frank will put up an OPS around 1.000. That's a top 10-15 result among all batters. You're desperate enough to swap Joe Crede for a guy like Shea Hillebrand, Vinny Castilla, or Mike Lowell that you'll give up a 1.000 OPS hitter?

You can't sign a hitter for $7mil that'll give you anywhere near Frank's #s. And unfortunately, that's not enough $$$ to get you a true stud at another position. And you're certainly not closer to a WS by replacing Frank with Carl Everett and taking the net savings of 1.5mil and applying that towards upgrading from Joe Crede. Or by using Ross Gload and spending $7mil on a 3B.

I agree that we can't find a hitter like Frank. But Frank is not a sure thing to last untill the end of this year let alone an entire year for the next two or three seasons. That on top of the fact that he is not someone who can play the field means that his role on this team is severly diminished. I am sure there is a guy who can hit with consistancy and play the field if needed even though he may not hit as many homers or his average is not up there with Frank's.

When I say more consistant 1B I am only talking about Konerko and his slumping ability not at all about Frank because he is clearly not a 1B anymore. I don't doubt Frank's hitting ability at all. PK is going to have to take a pay cut or hit the road. I don't know the exact numbers but I would guess that Frank's salary + Paul's salary = enough money to sign someone who is more versitile than Frank and can equal Paul's numbers. And if there is a guy like that out there then he would be a better fit on this team than either of the current two.

Flight #24
06-16-2005, 10:32 PM
I agree that we can't find a hitter like Frank. But Frank is not a sure thing to last untill the end of this year let alone an entire year for the next two or three seasons. That on top of the fact that he is not someone who can play the field means that his role on this team is severly diminished. I am sure there is a guy who can hit with consistancy and play the field if needed even though he may not hit as many homers or his average is not up there with Frank's.

When I say more consistant 1B I am only talking about Konerko and his slumping ability not at all about Frank because he is clearly not a 1B anymore. I don't doubt Frank's hitting ability at all. PK is going to have to take a pay cut or hit the road. I don't know the exact numbers but I would guess that Frank's salary + Paul's salary = enough money to sign someone who is more versitile than Frank and can equal Paul's numbers. And if there is a guy like that out there then he would be a better fit on this team than either of the current two.

I'll grant you that if Frank can't stay healthy and play most of the rest of the year, it changes things. But if he can (and given his injuries, IMO he probably can as long as he doesn't play the field), then I think you're missing the bigger picture if you let him go to try and upgrade elsewhere.

Put it this way - are you going to get a replacement for $6.5mil that's measurably better than Ross Gload? And if you can resign him for $7mil in '06, your potential savings drop to 3.5mil. Either way, I don't think you can get someone who's a ton better than Gload - it'll be someone like Carl/Dye DHing. Or you'll get yourself a whopping Hillebrand/Hinske/Randa type at 3B instead of Crede.

So your choices become: Dye/Everett(DH)+Hillebrand or Frank/Gload+Crede. IMO, that's a no-brainer to keep Frank.

As for Paulie, I agree with Frank's $$$ added to Paulies you could get a stud 1B, say a Todd Helton type. But then you have Gload or another minimum salaried guy DHing. So your choice there is Frank/Gload+Konerko or Helton+Gload. Again, IMO it's a no-brainer to keep Frank. Even if you replace Paulie.

As I said, if you play Frank appropriately and carefully, you can probably get the rest of '05 and at least 2/3 of '06. Keep him off the field (DH only), and you minimize the chance of injury. And if healthy, he's going to put up an OPS around 1.000. That production's a steal at 7-8mil, which IMO he'd take in a heartbeat on a 3-yr deal to stay and retire here.

Cubbiesuck13
06-16-2005, 10:48 PM
I'll grant you that if Frank can't stay healthy and play most of the rest of the year, it changes things. But if he can (and given his injuries, IMO he probably can as long as he doesn't play the field), then I think you're missing the bigger picture if you let him go to try and upgrade elsewhere.

Put it this way - are you going to get a replacement for $6.5mil that's measurably better than Ross Gload? And if you can resign him for $7mil in '06, your potential savings drop to 3.5mil. Either way, I don't think you can get someone who's a ton better than Gload - it'll be someone like Carl/Dye DHing. Or you'll get yourself a whopping Hillebrand/Hinske/Randa type at 3B instead of Crede.

So your choices become: Dye/Everett(DH)+Hillebrand or Frank/Gload+Crede. IMO, that's a no-brainer to keep Frank.

As for Paulie, I agree with Frank's $$$ added to Paulies you could get a stud 1B, say a Todd Helton type. But then you have Gload or another minimum salaried guy DHing. So your choice there is Frank/Gload+Konerko or Helton+Gload. Again, IMO it's a no-brainer to keep Frank. Even if you replace Paulie.

As I said, if you play Frank appropriately and carefully, you can probably get the rest of '05 and at least 2/3 of '06. Keep him off the field (DH only), and you minimize the chance of injury. And if healthy, he's going to put up an OPS around 1.000. That production's a steal at 7-8mil, which IMO he'd take in a heartbeat on a 3-yr deal to stay and retire here.


Well this may sound ignorant but here is goes. If and big if we get a stud 1B then you can have Dye DH because people are saying that Brian Anderson is ready to play in the MLB this year. I like Dye and wouldn't mind seeing him DH if Anderson does pan out and if Thomas is not in the picture. I hope they sign the Hurt for 3 years at no more than $6 per and all this talk is avoided.

Flight #24
06-16-2005, 10:53 PM
Well this may sound ignorant but here is goes. If and big if we get a stud 1B then you can have Dye DH because people are saying that Brian Anderson is ready to play in the MLB this year. I like Dye and wouldn't mind seeing him DH if Anderson does pan out and if Thomas is not in the picture. I hope they sign the Hurt for 3 years at no more than $6 per and all this talk is avoided.

Well, the differences between your scenario and mine is the combination of Anderson+Helton(or similar FA) v. Thomas+Konerko. IMO the latter is better, but we can agree to disagree.

Or, you get Dye to move to 1B (should be doable given his athleticism and an offseason+ST to practice), call up Anderson, and put Paulie's 9mil towards upgrading 3B, or adding depth to the 'pen and rotation.

Cubbiesuck13
06-16-2005, 11:03 PM
Well, the differences between your scenario and mine is the combination of Anderson+Helton(or similar FA) v. Thomas+Konerko. IMO the latter is better, but we can agree to disagree.

Or, you get Dye to move to 1B (should be doable given his athleticism and an offseason+ST to practice), call up Anderson, and put Paulie's 9mil towards upgrading 3B, or adding depth to the 'pen and rotation.

Well I agree that Thomas+Konerko is better just not for the money. Compound that with the fact that The Oz likes players who he can slot in different places and you have trouble. I like both Frank and Paul and hope that the SOX can win with them.

flo-B-flo
06-16-2005, 11:32 PM
I'd much rather have Frank for 3 years than Paulie. Think about it, KW. No brainer. Frank over Paulie all day.