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petergriffen
06-13-2005, 08:14 AM
though i called it the day before the second game of the sox-pads series, i think politte should close for a few games until hermanson looks more confidant. politte is just automatic right now, like hermanson has been for most of the year. all pitchers go through rough times. the next time we slaughter some .500 team, throw hermy in for an inning or two at the end (this will probably happen at least once when the dbacks come to town). hopefully that will get the kinks out of hermy's system. GO SOX!

rdwj
06-13-2005, 08:24 AM
He's not good at it. Something about those 9th inning close games makes him very nervous. We don't want to turn a productive pitcher into LaTroy Hawkins by asking him to do something he's not comfortable doing.

Baby Fisk
06-13-2005, 08:43 AM
No! In the past, Politte has shown that he's allergic to the 9th inning. It was horrible watching him start the 9th yesterday just because of his history of 9th inning collapses in years past. I mean look at the guy: his face already looks like he's got the Alien about to burst out of his chest cavity. Less 9th inning stress makes for a better Politte. :thumbsup:

fquaye149
06-13-2005, 08:46 AM
wind appears to be blowing north-northwest today.


that means....bench hermy and make borchard the closer.

Madvora
06-13-2005, 08:51 AM
Hermanson hasn't done nearly enough to lose his job. Everybody can't be Eric Gagne. We were just spoiled by Hermanson's streak that we never even expect a runner on base anymore.
Stick with him. He'll be fine. Politte is doing fine for himself where he is. No matter where we have these guys pitching, all of them have to do their jobs for this team to be successful.

Sad
06-13-2005, 09:00 AM
Hermanson is our closer...

DarkCloudDropo
06-13-2005, 09:14 AM
Hermanson hasn't done nearly enough to lose his job. Everybody can't be Eric Gagne. We were just spoiled by Hermanson's streak that we never even expect a runner on base anymore.
Stick with him. He'll be fine. Politte is doing fine for himself where he is. No matter where we have these guys pitching, all of them have to do their jobs for this team to be successful.

His era is 7.11 for this month! Some might interpret that to mean he should lose his job.

wdelaney72
06-13-2005, 09:37 AM
In a word... no.

DarkCloudDropo
06-13-2005, 09:39 AM
In a word... no.

Actually I agree. It's too soon. But i can see why some would feel that way.

elrod
06-13-2005, 09:41 AM
I would not make Politte the close, but I wouldn't hesitate to let him or Cotts finish a game here and there. Hermy needs to work some things out right now. He's not in Shingo territory but his command is just not there right now.

mccoydp
06-13-2005, 09:46 AM
Any closer can blow any game...even the greats blew a few saves.

It's funny how Hermanson had "ice water" in his veins just a month or so ago, and now some people are calling for his head.

If Cliff blows a save or two, some will be calling for hm to be "Knighted".

Hermanson will get his mojo back soon enough.

lowesox
06-13-2005, 09:48 AM
I don't like the idea of switching closers again. A world series team should have a dominant closer. Lets stick with Hermanson and see what happens. If he continues to slide, maybe we'll need to go out and get a bonafide closer by the deadline.

MisterB
06-13-2005, 10:55 AM
His era is 7.11 for this month! Some might interpret that to mean he should lose his job.

His era was 0.00 the previous 2 months. Some might interpret that to mean he's just had a few bad games in a short period of time.

samram
06-13-2005, 11:01 AM
Why are there so many threads proposing making drastic changes? Hermanson has been fantastic this year and should be the closer for the rest of the year unless he just turns into Koch, which I don't think will happen. As was mentioned before, Politte can't close games, and I wouldn't trust Cotts to do it yet.

Hey, what does everyone think of Carl Everett at third base?

itsnotrequired
06-13-2005, 11:19 AM
Probably worth pointing out that the Padres have seen Hermy quite a few times back when he was playing for the Giants. On average, teams will do better against pitchers they have seen as opposed to not seen.

Hermy will be just fine. Might want to be a little careful in the Dodgers series (see reasons above).

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2005, 11:21 AM
I don't think the Sox necessarily have to have one person close every game in which they have a lead of less than three runs. I prefer going with a "commimttee" approach based on situations, like so:

For example, if the Sox have a lead of three or more runs in the 7th, and the starter is out of the game, and, say, Vizcaio, Shingo, Cotts or Politte come in and pitch a scoreless seventh, let them start the eighth (but have Marte and/or Hermanson warming in the pen). If someone pitches a scoreless eighth, let them pitch the ninth (again, with Marte or Hermanson warming). Why mess with success? Why make a change just because someone is slotted for a particular "role" or inning?

However, if a guy allows two base runners (walks, hits or homers) before they record two outs, then make the change. One walk, hit or homer sometimes can be just bad luck or a simple mistake. With two, it's a trend.

If someone always is warming up, the guy on the mound won't lose confidence because having guys warming up will have been established as the "normal" course of events.

This kind of approach will build confidence in all the bullpen guys. Eventually, all of them should record saves. In that case, the Sox would have three or four guys - or more - who legitimately would have the "mental ability" to close out a win. Conversely, every one of them also would stay focused, because any one of them could be asked to warm up and/or come in to a game at any time with runners on base and less than two outs. It also would keep opposing teams on edge, because they would never know three innings in advance who they would face late in the game. That kind of thing would drive opposing managers nuts and give the Sox a psychological edge as well.

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 11:22 AM
Let Shingo close. The Sox have pretty much made him a mop up guy after a HR given up to Cantu. Before that he was the Closer. He was doing a good job as it to. 8 for 9 in Save Situations. Mix things up a bit.

DaleJRFan
06-13-2005, 11:38 AM
I'm the biggest Cliff Politte fan here. Hermanson is the closer. We need to NOT mess with roles. This team is clicking on all cylinders right now. Politte is the best 7th and 8th inning guy in baseball. That's his role. Hermanson is an effective closer. He has blown one game out of how many?? 13?? That is on par with the best closers in baseball. Leave 'em be...

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 11:39 AM
Let Shingo close. The Sox have pretty much made him a mop up guy after a HR given up to Cantu. Before that he was the Closer. He was doing a good job as it to. 8 for 9 in Save Situations. Mix things up a bit. Use both he and Hermy.

DaleJRFan
06-13-2005, 11:42 AM
:tealpolice:

DannyCaterFan
06-13-2005, 11:43 AM
All I can say is "YIKES!

kevingrt
06-13-2005, 11:44 AM
Let Shingo close. The Sox have pretty much made him a mop up guy after a HR given up to Cantu. Before that he was the Closer. He was doing a good job as it to. 8 for 9 in Save Situations. Mix things up a bit. Use both he and Hermy.

If you are really thinking of giving Hermanson a break, which he doesn't need at all, why would you put Shingo in the closers role? Polittle or Cotts would be much more reliable. But I don't even really know why I am replying to a post so out there.

PAPChiSox729
06-13-2005, 11:44 AM
I'm the biggest Cliff Politte fan here. Hermanson is the closer. We need to NOT mess with roles. This team is clicking on all cylinders right now. Politte is the best 7th and 8th inning guy in baseball. That's his role. Hermanson is an effective closer. He has blown one game out of how many?? 13?? That is on par with the best closers in baseball. Leave 'em be...


Actually, I think Hermanson is 15/16 in save opprotunities. I will give Hermanson a few more chances before I call for a new closer. I think he is just hitting a rough spot. I think he'll be back in another groove soon enough.
:cool:

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 11:46 AM
If you are really thinking of giving Hermanson a break, which he doesn't need at all, why would you put Shingo in the closers role? Polittle or Cotts would be much more reliable. But I don't even really know why I am replying to a post so out there.Just like maybe for tonight or something.

voodoochile
06-13-2005, 11:47 AM
The cool thing is that the Sox have several guys who can close. Politte, Hermanson, Shingo, Marte have all closed games this season and Cotts is showing signs of being able to do it too. No reason to burn any of them out. Play the matchups and keep the arms fresh.

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 11:49 AM
The cool thing is that the Sox have several guys who can close. Politte, Hermanson, Shingo, Marte have all closed games this season and Cotts is showing signs of being able to do it too. No reason to burn any of them out. Play the matchups and keep the arms fresh.That's what i'm trying to say. I'm not saying Shingo should be the perminant closer because he shouldn't.

petergriffen
06-13-2005, 12:27 PM
Any closer can blow any game...even the greats blew a few saves.

It's funny how Hermanson had "ice water" in his veins just a month or so ago, and now some people are calling for his head.

If Cliff blows a save or two, some will be calling for hm to be "Knighted".

Hermanson will get his mojo back soon enough.

you all are taking my opinion on this matter as too extreme. i dont think we should bench hermanson; i think we should give him some rest and let politte close for one or two games. i can understand, however, some people's aversion to that in regards to politte's 9th inning problems. i just think politte seems really confidant right now.

The Racehorse
06-13-2005, 12:34 PM
Contented cows give more milk... [players] pitchers who know their roles perform best. :wink:

RKMeibalane
06-13-2005, 12:38 PM
No, no, and no.

petergriffen
06-13-2005, 12:39 PM
Let Shingo close. The Sox have pretty much made him a mop up guy after a HR given up to Cantu. Before that he was the Closer. He was doing a good job as it to. 8 for 9 in Save Situations. Mix things up a bit. Use both he and Hermy.

it seems like he gives up a home run every time he comes in. with all the 1 run games we play, i am not so sure thats a great idea.

duke of dorwood
06-13-2005, 12:42 PM
Once we are thru with NL teams, I wouldnt consider it at all

brewcrew/chisox
06-13-2005, 12:57 PM
Contented cows give more milk... [players] pitchers who know their roles perform best. :wink:

In the words of Yogi, "It's dejavu all over again"
:wink:

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 12:57 PM
i say if shingo can go a couple outings (hopefully start with one) where he doesnt give up a dong to build back his confidence in his nasty stuff then, sure, why not?

Baby Fisk
06-13-2005, 12:59 PM
Enough with the swarming of Hermanson. The guy has a couple of bad outings and folks are ready to march him off the plank. He pitched two months without giving up a run. He'll be fine. Give it a rest.

The Racehorse
06-13-2005, 01:00 PM
Contented cows give more.... yeah, keep Hermy as the closer. :D:

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 01:01 PM
who cares about what role is whos. whats in a name? let the situation dictate the who needs to pitch. i thought that hermy might not have been the right choice against san diego since he came from SF and they saw him like 20-some times last year, and not just in the closer role

Lip Man 1
06-13-2005, 01:01 PM
Just my opinion but I think unless something drastic happens, Shingo will be pitching in 'mop up' or 'blow out' type games the rest of the season.

This is also his final year contract wise so you have probably heard the last of the 'gong' show.

Lip

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 01:03 PM
i dont like the idea of putting hermanson in "just bc hes our closer." let the situation dictate who pitches

PAPChiSox729
06-13-2005, 01:06 PM
Contented cows give more.... yeah, keep Hermy as the closer. :D:

Yeah, this is getting kind of ridiculous. Just leave Hermanson as closer. He's had a few rough outings but he'll be fine. I hope this is the last of the 'Who's Closing" threads for a while...

The Racehorse
06-13-2005, 01:06 PM
who cares about what role is whos. whats in a name? let the situation dictate the who needs to pitch. i thought that hermy might not have been the right choice against san diego since he came from SF and they saw him like 20-some times last year, and not just in the closer role

:jerry
"I agree"

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 01:06 PM
Just my opinion but I think unless something drastic happens, Shingo will be pitching in 'mop up' or 'blow out' type games the rest of the season.

This is also his final year contract wise so you have probably heard the last of the 'gong' show.

Lipactually he is protected through 09 so it's not. He doesn't have an out clause. Just because Japanese players came over as Free Agents doesn't mean that they will be eligable once there contract expires. The only player who had an out clause in his contract after it expired was Kaz Matsui. Hideki has a little different thing. If he doesn't get a contract extension than he has to be put on wavers.

Iguana775
06-13-2005, 01:21 PM
Just like maybe for tonight or something.

Wow, you joined in April and already have almost 800 posts. damn!

Reminds me of Jerry Manuel the poster. is he still around? lol

Iguana775
06-13-2005, 01:23 PM
I think we should give Uribe a chance to close. I bet he would do good! He has a cannon from SS.

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 01:23 PM
Wow, you joined in April and already have almost 800 posts. damn!

Reminds me of Jerry Manuel the poster. is he still around? lolWell you know how Mark Buehrle is an Innings Eater, well I'm a Posts Eater.:tongue:

Lip Man 1
06-13-2005, 01:24 PM
The Sox signed Shingo to a two year deal last year. This is the second year. At the end of the season therefore he becomes a free agent no?

And unless he starts turning things around I would anticipate he will not be back.

Lip

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 01:27 PM
The Sox signed Shingo to a two year deal last year. This is the second year. At the end of the season therefore he becomes a free agent no?

And unless he starts turning things around I would anticipate he will not be back.

LipNo because he was a rookie last year. Therefore he comes back next year making around 2 Million because he will probably be eligable for arbitration. He has 2 years of service. He needs 6 to be a Free Agent. He will either be eligable for arbitartion or will make the minimum next year.

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 01:28 PM
I think we should give Uribe a chance to close. I bet he would do good! He has a cannon from SS.I knew we shouldn't have traded Olivo. He would've been the closer of the future with his cannon arm.

gobears1987
06-13-2005, 01:49 PM
All I can say is "YIKES!
Let me say that better:
:bundy

BigEdWalsh
06-13-2005, 01:57 PM
Hermanson is definately the closer, period. However, yesterday with the 8-5 lead, I was really hoping Shingo would come in to close it out and notch a Save. I think it would have helped to boost his confidence and I felt good about his chances since the Padres are unfamilar with him.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Hermanson is definately the closer, period. However, yesterday with the 8-5 lead, I was really hoping Shingo would come in to close it out and notch a Save. I think it would have helped to boost his confidence and I felt good about his chances since the Padres are unfamilar with him.
shingo hasnt pitched in a while it seems and hopefully the sox can give him a nice cushion to come in and finish the game off..."clean up on isle 4"

patbooyah
06-13-2005, 02:00 PM
shingo should be the closer... in AAA, where he can get his stuff back on track with regular playing time.

Lip Man 1
06-13-2005, 02:19 PM
Shingo has a two year deal right? He hasn't pitched in the major leagues long enough to be eligible for arbitration...even if he is, the Sox have the choice of whether they want to re-sign him or not, no? His deal is up... they do not have to re-sign him if they don't want to.

If they don't, then he is free to sign with whomever he chooses.

Lip

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Shingo has a two year deal right? He hasn't pitched in the major leagues long enough to be eligible for arbitration...even if he is, the Sox have the choice of whether they want to re-sign him or not, no? His deal is up... they do not have to re-sign him if they don't want to.

If they don't, then he is free to sign with whomever he chooses.

Lipi guess i didn't explain myself clearly enough. He is not eligable for Free Agency until 09 because he doesn't have enough Service time in the Big Leagues. It doesn't matter if you are coming from Japan or not. He isn't eligable for Free Agency next year.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 02:37 PM
What does everyone think about bringing back Billy Koch to be our closer? :redneck

Hermanson is the closer until he proves he shouldn't be. And by "proves he shouldn't be," I don't mean "blows 2 saves." I mean he should be the closer until he is unable to get batters out on a consistent basis and starts failing in closing situations. The only other reason Hermanson should lose the job of closer is if Kenny is able to acquire a true front-line closer and at this point, I don't see any front-line closers available. The best available closers at this time would seem to be Danys Baez, Jose Mesa and Bob Wickman. If, and that's a big if, Brad Lidge becomes available, he's the type that would be an upgrade over Hermanson. Eddie Guardado is another possibility that could become available and would be an upgrade to the bullpen. But the likes of Wickman and Baez aren't enough to take Hermanson out of the closer's job.

MRKARNO
06-13-2005, 02:47 PM
i guess i didn't explain myself clearly enough. He is not eligable for Free Agency until 09 because he doesn't have enough Service time in the Big Leagues. It doesn't matter if you are coming from Japan or not. He isn't eligable for Free Agency next year.

I'm almost positive that this is not correct. I think players who come directly to the major leagues from the Japanese leagues are treated as free agents from day 1, or else Iguchi would be getting paid about 300,000 right now. Only players who are drafted or come up through the minor leagues have to go through the service time thing.

Shingo is in fact a Free Agent at the end of this year and it would not surprise me to see him go back to Japan because I think his family never relocated to Chicago, unlike Iguchi.

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 03:02 PM
I'm almost positive that this is not correct. I think players who come directly to the major leagues from the Japanese leagues are treated as free agents from day 1, or else Iguchi would be getting paid about 300,000 right now. Only players who are drafted or come up through the minor leagues have to go through the service time thing.

Shingo is in fact a Free Agent at the end of this year and it would not surprise me to see him go back to Japan because I think his family never relocated to Chicago, unlike Iguchi.no he isn't. I emailed Scott Merkin at the beginning of the Season and he said that players who come from pro leagues outside of the US aren't treated differently. Case in point with Hideki Matsui. His contract is up however he won't be a free agent at the end of the year. He does have a clause in his contract though that says that if he hasn't gotten an extension by October 28 he has to be put on Waivers. THe only Japansese player to be a Free Agent when his contract is done will be Kaz Matsui because he has a an out clause in his contract when it's up.

DaleJRFan
06-13-2005, 03:48 PM
No because he was a rookie last year. Therefore he comes back next year making around 2 Million because he will probably be eligable for arbitration. He has 2 years of service. He needs 6 to be a Free Agent. He will either be eligable for arbitartion or will make the minimum next year.

KW can choose not to not offer him arbitration, non-tender him... too. I can assure you, he will not be back.

voodoochile
06-13-2005, 04:02 PM
KW can choose not to not offer him arbitration, non-tender him... too. I can assure you, he will not be back.

Why?

Mark'sBrokenFoot
06-13-2005, 04:22 PM
Hermanson has a WHIP of 2.23 against left handers. They are slugging .522 against him. They are on base .434. I think that if there is a lefty on the bench or one coming up in the 9th, Dustin has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can't do the job. The only reason he lasted so long without giving up a run was because Ozzie did a tremendous job protecting him from the lefties (which Ozzie took a lot of heat for against the Angels.)

If we're looking at an all right handed 9th, Hermanson is awesome. He is lights out against the righties. Until the trade deadline at least, I think we'll be best off going with the matchups in the 9th. If the Marniners continue to suck, Eddie Guardado will probably be shopped around. Hermy is much more valuable as a setup man, as is Politte and Marte. Eddie would really solve most of the bullpen problems we have by moving everybody back into a slot they are more suited for.

elrod
06-13-2005, 04:22 PM
It depends on what's bothering the closer at the moment. If it's something mechanical, or a hidden health issue, or lost velocity then you have a serious problem and should consider a change. If it's just a matter of not having command a few times out there then there's no reason to change. Koch and Shingo ran into serious problems where their velocity was off and their control was off. Hermy's just getting beat a few times even though his stuff is still there and his mindset is fine. He should be alright.

Realist
06-13-2005, 04:28 PM
I have no problem with Hermanson being the regular closer, however, I didn't like the idea of bringing him in in game two against the Padres. I thought that was one of the "situations" where Politte or Marte or even Shingo would fare better.

The Padres know Hermanson very well after facing him so much because he was in their same division before, and the guys that were coming to bat in that ninth inning all seemed to have great success against him. I was actually very nervous when Hermanson was brought in.

I think a little "Frisbee" action might have been a better call under those circumstances. Then again, if it would have been Shingo that blew that save we'd all be calling for Ozzie's head... or at least to have it examined.

Second guessing is so much fun. :bandance:

DickAllen72
06-13-2005, 05:42 PM
Let Shingo close. The Sox have pretty much made him a mop up guy after a HR given up to Cantu. Before that he was the Closer. He was doing a good job as it to. 8 for 9 in Save Situations. Mix things up a bit. Use both he and Hermy.

I agree. Before it's all said and done, Shingo will be the Sox' closer again.

Shingo is a victim of circumstance. If we were a .500 team early in the year, and Hermanson wasn't pitching a perfect 0.00 ERA, Shingo would have probably been allowed to pitch through his troubles, maybe blowing another save or two along the way, but he would have gotten his control back by now. Ozzie going with Hermanson was the right thing to do, and that's one reason why we have the best record in baseball right now. But Hermanson wasn't really brought here to be The Closer, although he has filled in exceptionally.

We need Shingo to get his control back. With him as closer, we have an awesome bullpen. With Shingo struggling, everthing in the pen is slightly out of place. The only way he's going to get back in his groove, is to pitch. He did strike out the last three batters he's faced, so it's not like he's totally lost it. But it's hard for him to be sharp pitching only once a week.

FloridaSox
06-13-2005, 05:53 PM
Actually, I think Hermanson is 15/16 in save opprotunities. I will give Hermanson a few more chances before I call for a new closer. I think he is just hitting a rough spot. I think he'll be back in another groove soon enough.
:cool:

...but the guy is tired. Pitching a reliever 7 of 9 games (which is what Hermy did at the start of June) is a great way to burn out an arm. We have four pitchers who have closed from time to time and the other two could if called upon. Let's keep our relievers fresh and not use a guy just because he is the "closer".

Tony LaRussa is honest about the fact that he likes having a closer so that he will take no heat if his team blows a game in the 9th..."I used my closer, didn't I".

We have a great bullpen...let's keep them fresh and not be afraid to use several as closers as the situation calls for.

White Sox Josh
06-13-2005, 05:54 PM
I agree. Before it's all said and done, Shingo will be the Sox' closer again.

Shingo is a victim of circumstance. If we were a .500 team early in the year, and Hermanson wasn't pitching a perfect 0.00 ERA, Shingo would have probably been allowed to pitch through his troubles, maybe blowing another save or two along the way, but he would have gotten his control back by now. Ozzie going with Hermanson was the right thing to do, and that's one reason why we have the best record in baseball right now. But Hermanson wasn't really brought here to be The Closer, although he has filled in exceptionally.

We need Shingo to get his control back. With him as closer, we have an awesome bullpen. With Shingo struggling, everthing in the pen is slightly out of place. The only way he's going to get back in his groove, is to pitch. He did strike out the last three batters he's faced, so it's not like he's totally lost it. But it's hard for him to be sharp pitching only once a week.I agree. If Hermy hadn't been lights out for two months Shingo would still be closing games. They were just going with the hot hand.