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View Full Version : i hope ya'll dont hate timo for tonight


petergriffen
06-13-2005, 12:33 AM
people love to hate timo perez. he did royally **** up tonight, allowing that triple, but i still dont hate him. i love every white sox player when we are playing like we are. what do you all think of timo and the other utility players? im trying to figure out if people on this forum want to change the roster around on the best team in baseball.

DumpJerry
06-13-2005, 12:38 AM
I missed that part of the game, so I don't know what he did or did not do, but, I don't care. We won. That's the only important fact that comes out of a game other than a bad injury to one of our guys. Nobody is perfect, so if a player scews up, but we still win, it's water under the bridge in my book.

RedPinStripes
06-13-2005, 01:03 AM
I'd be afraid to make any move right now. If anyone I'd like to add , it would be Eric Chavez .

TimoPerez
06-13-2005, 01:19 AM
Timo Rules!:)

Banix12
06-13-2005, 01:52 AM
I don't hate timo, however I have been dissapointed in his overall play this season.

1 pinch hit in 12 tries, he's not been a great pinch hitter over the last few years but it's still something he is asked to do.

.143 BA with runners in scoring position (.332 hitter with runners in scoring positon over the past three seasons)

his defense hasn't been all that great either, though he still has shown a good arm.

He's had some good games but this is a year when he is having more bad games than good. Timo is not doing well in the areas where he traditionally does well. For a reserve player that is not a good thing to happen.

Just to make it clear, i'm not advocating getting rid of Timo, but I'm just saying I've found his play disappointing overall during this campaign.

Falstaff
06-13-2005, 05:13 AM
Maybe be needs a 2 week vacation or something, needs to sharpen his focus on the game and on the ball. Or a strong cup of coffee helps too. Somebody tell him to try that.

JRIG
06-13-2005, 06:22 AM
Timo's defense has been piss-poor this year, his baserunning has been awful, and he can't hit his way out of a paper bag.

So yes. I'd be in favor of releasing Timo Perez.

nlentz88
06-13-2005, 11:27 AM
I like Timo. He's an asset to the team both on and off the field.

Ozuna has been key too. He's filled some unlikely rolls for the team this season.

Right now, I'm in favor of the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" cliche. However, if serious injuries (knock on wood) being to take their toll, then obviously I would be more than happy to see KW make some acquisitions.

But yeah, Chavez would be great. I'll believe it when I see it, though.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 01:36 PM
I'd be afraid to make any move right now. If anyone I'd like to add , it would be Eric Chavez .

But Chavez is hitting .220 with no power and he's not that big of an upgrade over Joe Crede.

FWIW, for those who were saying something like this a couple of weeks ago, Chavez is now hitting .253 with 10 HRs....

BaseballTonyght
06-13-2005, 01:39 PM
He made a pretty bad play on that ball... so it goes. That's why they play 162.

ATXBMX
06-13-2005, 01:58 PM
So Timo screwed up, but the run didn't score. That's why it's better to be lucky than good.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-13-2005, 02:13 PM
But Chavez is hitting .220 with no power and he's not that big of an upgrade over Joe Crede.

FWIW, for those who were saying something like this a couple of weeks ago, Chavez is now hitting .253 with 10 HRs....

joe crede - 189 AB, .238 BA, .308 OBP, 9 HR, 25 RBI, 29 SO, 14 BB
eric chavez-241 AB, .253 BA, .318 OBP, 10 HR, 37 RBI, 55 SO, 23 BB

joe crede - 139 total chances, 4 errors
eric chavez - 164 total chances, 10 errors

joe crede - 27 years old
eric chavez - 27 years old (turns 28 two days before i turn 21 in this upcoming december)

joe crede - 2005 salary, $400,000
eric chavez - 2005 salary, $8,500,000 ($46.5 mill over 5 years remaining on contract)


do you really want to make this guy you're only acquisition? because his salary would handicap the team and not allow them to make any other moves. and i know he's done some great things in the past, but we don't care about that, we want a winner right NOW who is playing like a winner.

and besides, doesn't kenny williams despise billy beane and thus them two talking trade would be a little tough? if this trade (crede/mccarthy for chavez) goes down, my initial reaction will be a very angry and disappointed one. but the fact that williams hates beane and the fact that williams loves mccarthy, i just don't see this happening at all. i hope i am right.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 02:24 PM
joe crede - 189 AB, .238 BA, .308 OBP, 9 HR, 25 RBI, 29 SO, 14 BB
eric chavez-241 AB, .253 BA, .318 OBP, 10 HR, 37 RBI, 55 SO, 23 BB

joe crede - 139 total chances, 4 errors
eric chavez - 164 total chances, 10 errors

joe crede - 27 years old
eric chavez - 27 years old (turns 28 two days before i turn 21 in this upcoming december)

joe crede - 2005 salary, $400,000
eric chavez - 2005 salary, $8,500,000 ($46.5 mill over 5 years remaining on contract)


do you really want to make this guy you're only acquisition? because his salary would handicap the team and not allow them to make any other moves. and i know he's done some great things in the past, but we don't care about that, we want a winner right NOW who is playing like a winner.

and besides, doesn't kenny williams despise billy beane and thus them two talking trade would be a little tough? if this trade (crede/mccarthy for chavez) goes down, my initial reaction will be a very angry and disappointed one. but the fact that williams hates beane and the fact that williams loves mccarthy, i just don't see this happening at all. i hope i am right.

Have you bothered to follow Chavez's career or even look at what he has done in the past few years? This is what Eric Chavez does every year. People kept making ridiculous posts trying to compare Crede to Chavez because of their averages and I kept saying that Chavez is a slow starter and he will come around. This is just what Chavez does. He starts off slow and then heats up and by the end of the year his numbers will be where they always are. You want a winner now? Eric Chavez is hitting .436 with 6 HRs, 14 RBI and a 1.496 OPS in the month of June. How's that for a winner now?

Don't make ridiculous comparisons. I've been as big a Joe Crede supporter as anyone on this site, but Joe Crede can't carry Eric Chavez's jock. You asked me if I would be comfortable making Chavez our only acquisition. To answer your question; yes. And since you brought it up, what exactly would you do?The rotation doesn't need to be touched. The outfield, catching situation, and right side of the infield are fine. The bullpen could use one extra reliever. It's not like this team has a bunch of holes that needed to be filled.

And no, Kenny's feelings about Beane would not keep him from making a deal with Beane. If Kenny thought Oakland had something that the Sox could use, you can bet he'd put aside any personal feelings he has for Beane to make the deal.

samram
06-13-2005, 02:30 PM
I can't stand him because he sucks at offense, defense, and baserunning. Other than that, I've got no problem with him.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 02:31 PM
I can't stand him because he sucks at offense, defense, and baserunning. Other than that, I've got no problem with him.
other than that.....lol.....yea i hear hes a pretty nice guy, lets keep him!

Sad
06-13-2005, 02:38 PM
But Chavez is hitting .220 with no power and he's not that big of an upgrade over Joe Crede.

FWIW, for those who were saying something like this a couple of weeks ago, Chavez is now hitting .253 with 10 HRs....

yeah he had one hell of a game Sunday...

balke
06-13-2005, 02:40 PM
Timo can go at anytime if he's upgraded. He's a horrible fielder, and if he wasn't clutch I'd be screaming for his head on a platter. IF we could trade some minor leaguers with him to another team, I'd be more than happy.


Chavez is the only suitable replacement for Joe right now (Besides A-rod or Mora or someone that is unattainable). He's got a great glove and bat. Right now though, Joe's glove is very valuable to the team. Our pitching staff is looking so good because of great defense, not solely but it has helped their ERA significantly. I wasn't welcoming the Chavez idea before, but after seeing how well he would fit into the team I'd be all about it if it didn't cost a starter besided Crede. Too bad that trades been shot to death, and Chavez is going nowhere.

mweflen
06-13-2005, 02:43 PM
Stick a fork in Timo, he's done. He's not doing what he was kept on the squad for - pinch hitting. We've all heard the hype about what a "professional hitter" he is. What a pile of Bull-dink. And he certainly can't play defense. All this for a mere $1 mil.

Ditto on Crede not holding Chavez' jockstrap. Having met him, I like Joe Crede personally, and hope for his success. But Chavez is a steady .280/30/100 guy with similar defensive skills, whereas Crede has regressed offensively every year.

Getting Chavez for 8.5 mil would be like getting Magglio in his prime for less money with a better glove, at age 27. And we'd be able to keep him for the rest of his contract.

If Chavez were our only acquisition via trade, I'd be THRILLED. He could be just the power bat to give our lineup some depth and take us deep into the playofs with a higher-powered offense.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 02:44 PM
why are we back on the "trade crede bandwagon," hes coming around nicely after a great april and bad may...hes batting .308 with 4 homers in june thus far and his glove is second to none. screw chavez, we dont need his high cost contract and i dont even wanna think about who we'd have to give up to get him

mweflen
06-13-2005, 02:46 PM
why are we back on the "trade crede bandwagon," hes coming around nicely after a great april and bad may...hes batting .308 with 4 homers in june thus far and his glove is second to none. screw chavez, we dont need his high cost contract and i dont even wanna think about who we'd have to give up to get him

How about Crede and BMac? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 02:50 PM
How about Crede and BMac? I'd do it in a heartbeat.
like i stated earlier, crede had a bad month, plain and simple...paulies had a bad two months and is now heating up, just like crede. and i know chavez has a gold glove or two, but only big name players seem to win those, how fishy. i still think that we need to keep crede bc of his glove, and hes heating up...again, just like the rest of the team

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 02:50 PM
why are we back on the "trade crede bandwagon," hes coming around nicely after a great april and bad may...hes batting .308 with 4 homers in june thus far and his glove is second to none. screw chavez, we dont need his high cost contract and i dont even wanna think about who we'd have to give up to get him

We're not talking about trading Joe Crede just to get rid of him. We're simply talking about upgrading the position of 3B. It's one of the few positions that can be upgraded. And Crede's glove isn't second to none. It's certainly second to Eric Chavez.

balke
06-13-2005, 02:52 PM
why are we back on the "trade crede bandwagon," hes coming around nicely after a great april and bad may...hes batting .308 with 4 homers in june thus far and his glove is second to none. screw chavez, we dont need his high cost contract and i dont even wanna think about who we'd have to give up to get him

Because the Sox haven't won a world series in a long long time. Chavez would be our automatic #3 or #4 hitter based on how Ozzie wants to do things. That puts Konerko in the 5 where he belongs, and gives Frank great protection in the lineup like last season.

Pods
Iguchi
Chavez
Frank/Everett
Konerko
Rowand
Dye
AJ
Uribe

Like I said, I'm happy with our team and Crede definitely is contributing. I also can't deny I think Chavez would be an upgrade (costly uprade, but upgrade). I appreciate Joe's glove and lately his bat, but Chavez may mean the difference between title now or title later.

The move I would like to see made would be if the Phillies stumble, and Wagner is available. THat's unlikely perhaps, but that's what I would like. Get one more great arm in there, end the controversy for closer, and let our bullpen be amazing for the rest of the year, no questions asked.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 02:52 PM
And Crede's glove isn't second to none. It's certainly second to Eric Chavez.
doubtful, chavez has almost three times the amount of errors so far this year

balke
06-13-2005, 02:54 PM
doubtful, chavez has almost three times the amount of errors so far this year

Chavez got all his errors in April I believe. He's been great lately. They are both pretty close in glove work. I won't dog Joe's glove.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 02:55 PM
like i stated earlier, crede had a bad month, plain and simple...paulies had a bad two months and is now heating up, just like crede. and i know chavez has a gold glove or two, but only big name players seem to win those, how fishy. i still think that we need to keep crede bc of his glove, and hes heating up...again, just like the rest of the team

Now you're just way off base. Eric Chavez is a great defensive 3B. He's right up there with Scott Rolen and Adrian Beltre. Crede isn't just a player who has had a bad 2 months. First off, he was fine in the month of April. He was awful in May. Konerko gets more of a break because he's proven that he can hit in the past. Joe Crede hasn't.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 02:55 PM
The move I would like to see made would be if the Phillies stumble, and Wagner is available. THat's unlikely perhaps, but that's what I would like. Get one more great arm in there, end the controversy for closer, and let our bullpen be amazing for the rest of the year, no questions asked.
im not saying trading for chavez is a bad idea, i guess its just not the smartest. balke seems to realize that there are greater areas of concern than third base

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 02:56 PM
doubtful, chavez has almost three times the amount of errors so far this year

You have to be joking. He's won four gold gloves for a reason. Check out an Oakland A's game once in a while. Then tell me Joe Crede comes close to Eric Chavez defensively.

Or you could just use the statistic of errors over two months of a season because that obviously proves who is better. GMAB.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 02:59 PM
im not saying trading for chavez is a bad idea, i guess its just not the smartest. balke seems to realize that there are greater areas of concern than third base

Like what? Our awful starting rotation? LF? CF? RF? DH? 1B? 2B? SS? Our closer who is 15 out of 16 in save opportunities? I've already said in this very thread as well as in numerous other threads that this team needs depth in the bullpen and that we need another right-handed setup man who can pitch late in games. Other than that, name me one area of bigger concern than 3B.

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 03:00 PM
You have to be joking. He's won four gold gloves for a reason. Check out an Oakland A's game once in a while. Then tell me Joe Crede comes close to Eric Chavez defensively.

Or you could just use the statistic of errors over two months of a season because that obviously proves who is better. GMAB.
sorry, i for one do not live on the west coast and am not able to catch very many A's games, only the ones in which our sox are playing...and for the last f'in time, im not saying its a bad move, its just not the smartest

WhiteSoxFan84
06-13-2005, 03:03 PM
Have you bothered to follow Chavez's career or even look at what he has done in the past few years? This is what Eric Chavez does every year. People kept making ridiculous posts trying to compare Crede to Chavez because of their averages and I kept saying that Chavez is a slow starter and he will come around. This is just what Chavez does. He starts off slow and then heats up and by the end of the year his numbers will be where they always are. You want a winner now? Eric Chavez is hitting .436 with 6 HRs, 14 RBI and a 1.496 OPS in the month of June. How's that for a winner now?

Don't make ridiculous comparisons. I've been as big a Joe Crede supporter as anyone on this site, but Joe Crede can't carry Eric Chavez's jock. You asked me if I would be comfortable making Chavez our only acquisition. To answer your question; yes. And since you brought it up, what exactly would you do?The rotation doesn't need to be touched. The outfield, catching situation, and right side of the infield are fine. The bullpen could use one extra reliever. It's not like this team has a bunch of holes that needed to be filled.

And no, Kenny's feelings about Beane would not keep him from making a deal with Beane. If Kenny thought Oakland had something that the Sox could use, you can bet he'd put aside any personal feelings he has for Beane to make the deal.


what would i do? personally, i think we have more than 1 question mark in the bullpen. i was probably the first one that wanted shingo to be let go and i still feel that way. luis vizcaino i really like and think he will slowly turn it around, but if he doesn't, i'd like to see him in AAA for a little bit. neal cotts has been tremendous and i love how he is pitching. i am a little worried he won't be this dependable the whole year, but the way he's going right now, leave him as is.

i'd first go to the phillies and see what they want for billy wagner. i think he'd be a great addition to the white sox. give them a few prospects as long as they pay for AT LEAST half of wagner's contract. i believe he's an FA after this season, so this would be the ideal KW situation (pick up a big arm who is on a contract year). i would consider making wagner the closer or have him split duties with hermanson. they would rotate roles, setup man to closer, closer to setup man.

second, i would talk to the devil rays about aubrey huff. i would try my best to convince them that crede and a solid prospect for huff would be a fair deal. the only problem i would have with this trade is huff's defense. it's a little shaky at 3B. but him being a left-handed power threat with a solid career OBP (.346) and average (.291).

with ross gload coming back to solidify the bench, there wouldnt be much else to do. two weeks ago i would've said we should also be looking to move carl everett, but with the way he's been hitting the ball lately and how he is sharing DH duties with frank, i think he's a valuable part of the team.

so that would be my idea. pick up billy wagner and aubrey huff.

mweflen
06-13-2005, 03:04 PM
:hijacked:I do so love a good "Trade Crede" thread...

Oh wait, wasn't this about Timo? He sucks.:redneck

ShoelessJoeS
06-13-2005, 03:06 PM
I've already said in this very thread as well as in numerous other threads that this team needs depth in the bullpen.
thats all im trying to say, sorry i even posted my thought j

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 03:15 PM
what would i do? personally, i think we have more than 1 question mark in the bullpen. i was probably the first one that wanted shingo to be let go and i still feel that way. luis vizcaino i really like and think he will slowly turn it around, but if he doesn't, i'd like to see him in AAA for a little bit. neal cotts has been tremendous and i love how he is pitching. i am a little worried he won't be this dependable the whole year, but the way he's going right now, leave him as is.

i'd first go to the phillies and see what they want for billy wagner. i think he'd be a great addition to the white sox. give them a few prospects as long as they pay for AT LEAST half of wagner's contract. i believe he's an FA after this season, so this would be the ideal KW situation (pick up a big arm who is on a contract year). i would consider making wagner the closer or have him split duties with hermanson. they would rotate roles, setup man to closer, closer to setup man.

second, i would talk to the devil rays about aubrey huff. i would try my best to convince them that crede and a solid prospect for huff would be a fair deal. the only problem i would have with this trade is huff's defense. it's a little shaky at 3B. but him being a left-handed power threat with a solid career OBP (.346) and average (.291).

with ross gload coming back to solidify the bench, there wouldnt be much else to do. two weeks ago i would've said we should also be looking to move carl everett, but with the way he's been hitting the ball lately and how he is sharing DH duties with frank, i think he's a valuable part of the team.

so that would be my idea. pick up billy wagner and aubrey huff.

The problem is that the Phillies might not give up Wagner. He's certainly not available at this point with the Phillies only a game and a half back of the Nationals for first place. The trade deadline is about 6 weeks away. Unless they fall drastically over the next 6 weeks, the Phillies figure to be buyers rather than sellers. Jim Thome is starting to come around. Abreu has been great all year. Burrell is hot. Utley is playing full time and Rollins has been better recently. The Phillies upgraded their bullpen with Urbina and at this point they figure to look to upgrade their rotation within the next 6 weeks.

Huff is likely going to be available though he is certainly a downgrade defensively from Crede. Chavez is an upgrade both offensively and defensively from Crede.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-13-2005, 03:16 PM
im with you shoeless joe

i just don't see the acquisition of eric chavez being such a great thing. if we're picking him up for his defense, it's a joke, i don't care how many gold gloves he has. crede's defense is amazing as is. but im pretty sure we'd be picking him up for his offense, and he has been a stud. but the fact that he plays for a team that is next door to BALCO and the fact that the guy would be making more than Konerko, Buehrle, Garcia, etc., I do not like. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve that much money, but this guy would handicap our team going into next year, ESPECIALLY IF WE DON'T EVEN WIN ANYTHING THIS YEAR.

like shoeless said, i dont think this is a bad idea at all. but there's other ways to make the team better without giving up so much (read below) and picking up such a huge tab.

and isn't it funny how all of a sudden some of you don't mind getting rid of mccarthy? haven't we all been whining about the white sox never developing a stud SP? finally we seem to have one in the makings and you want to trade him right away? let's not do with this guy what the cubs did with greg maddux.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-13-2005, 03:18 PM
The problem is that the Phillies might not give up Wagner. He's certainly not available at this point with the Phillies only a game and a half back of the Nationals for first place. The trade deadline is about 6 weeks away. Unless they fall drastically over the next 6 weeks, the Phillies figure to be buyers rather than sellers. Jim Thome is starting to come around. Abreu has been great all year. Burrell is hot. Utley is playing full time and Rollins has been better recently. The Phillies upgraded their bullpen with Urbina and at this point they figure to look to upgrade their rotation within the next 6 weeks.

Huff is likely going to be available though he is certainly a downgrade defensively from Crede. Chavez is an upgrade both offensively and defensively from Crede.

im hearing the main reason the phils acquired urbina was to trade wagner. urbina has been closing the last few games while wagner has been sitting in the dugout cheering him on. it would seem that wagner is as good as gone.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 03:20 PM
thats all im trying to say, sorry i even posted my thought j

Don't be sorry. Just understand that basing a comparison of Crede and Chavez on this years numbers alone is a horrible idea. And comparing players defensively solely based on errors is an equally bad idea.

If you think that trading for Chavez isn't the best idea, that's fine. You want to say that he's not worth his contact, fine. I disagree, but it's a valid argument. But don't try to justify the argument by saying that Crede is equal to Chavez.

balke
06-13-2005, 03:22 PM
The Phillies lineup is so sick, they should be in the race for awhile. They should actually be moving up in the race soon. As soon as they figure out Utley should be higher in the order.


Wagner is a mild pipe dream right now. But he's the best fit I can think of right now. Unless the Yanks are ready to dump Mariano hehe. There's always the off chance we do something like acquiring Guardado too. I want Wagner though, and would certainly take Chavez. No offense to Joe, who's really been good this year, no matter what his #'s say.

JRIG
06-13-2005, 03:24 PM
im hearing the main reason the phils acquired urbina was to trade wagner. urbina has been closing the last few games while wagner has been sitting in the dugout cheering him on. it would seem that wagner is as good as gone.

Don't let facts get in the way of your argument here...

Wagner picked up saves on June 8 and 9 after Urbina had been acquired. Yes, Urbina got the save on the 11th as Wagner took the day off. But on the 12th, Urbina pitched the 8th inning and Wagner the 9th in WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A SAVE SITUATION if the Phillies hadn't scored 4 in the 8th.

But you're right. Kiss Wagner goodbye, as he's not getting any saves anymore.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 03:25 PM
im hearing the main reason the phils acquired urbina was to trade wagner. urbina has been closing the last few games while wagner has been sitting in the dugout cheering him on. it would seem that wagner is as good as gone.

Just wondering, where are you hearing this? Because I don't believe it for a second. Urbina only closed one game and that was because Wagner had been used in 8 of 10 games so the Phillies wanted to rest him up for a couple days.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-13-2005, 03:28 PM
Don't let facts get in the way of your argument here...

Wagner picked up saves on June 8 and 9 after Urbina had been acquired. Yes, Urbina got the save on the 11th as Wagner took the day off. But on the 12th, Urbina pitched the 8th inning and Wagner the 9th in WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A SAVE SITUATION if the Phillies hadn't scored 4 in the 8th.



But you're right. Kiss Wagner goodbye, as he's not getting any saves anymore.



Just wondering, where are you hearing this? Because I don't believe it for a second. Urbina only closed one game and that was because Wagner had been used in 8 of 10 games so the Phillies wanted to rest him up for a couple days.


well im dumb for believing baseball tonight i guess. they were showing highlights of the phils game a few nights ago and said that urbina was in to close out the game as wagner watched from the dugout. they showed wagner and i believe it was karl ravech who said something to the likes of, "urbina came in to close as wagner was in the dugout. could this be a sign of things to come...." and peter gammons said something about, "he's certainly more available now than he ever was", the he was wagner.

balke
06-13-2005, 03:36 PM
they showed wagner and i believe it was karl ravech who said something to the likes of, "urbina came in to close as wagner was in the dugout. could this be a sign of things to come...." and peter gammons said something about, "he's certainly more available now than he ever was", the he was wagner.

Meh, ESPN tripe. I will say, someone like Mccarthy is what the Phils would want more than anything right now. They need young cheap starting pitching. Does that mean they'll dump Wagner and his salary to do so? I would if I were them. Doesn't mean they'll find someone to bite the bait though. I'd almost rather see Mccarthy in our pen then Wagner if that's what it came down to. It'll be interesting to see what Kenny is thinking, if anything before the trade deadline.

Back to Timo, I wish we could use him in a trade to fill out the bullpen. Then we could just bring up ANderson, or Gload and be like "Timo who?". I doubt anyone would want Timo though, even if we paid his salary.

DickAllen72
06-13-2005, 05:30 PM
I don't hate Timo. But we need a backup 1B, so as soon as Ross Gload is ready to return, Timo should go.

Both Willie Harris and Pablo Ozuna can play outfield as well as Timo, and both can also play infield which Timo can't, and both have great speed which Timo does not.

Timo's main value is as a LH pinch hitter, and Ross Gload is better in that role as well.

Nothing personal against Timo, but he should be the one to make room for Gload.

mweflen
06-13-2005, 05:33 PM
I don't hate Timo. But we need a backup 1B, so as soon as Ross Gload is ready to return, Timo should go.

Both Willie Harris and Pablo Ozuna can play outfield as well as Timo, and both can also play infield which Timo can't, and both have great speed which Timo does not.

Timo's main value is as a LH pinch hitter, and Ross Gload is better in that role as well.

Nothing personal against Timo, but he should be the one to make room for Gload.


This pretty well sums up the case against Timo "The One Million Dollar Man" Perez.

petergriffen
06-13-2005, 07:19 PM
joe crede - 189 AB, .238 BA, .308 OBP, 9 HR, 25 RBI, 29 SO, 14 BB
eric chavez-241 AB, .253 BA, .318 OBP, 10 HR, 37 RBI, 55 SO, 23 BB

joe crede - 139 total chances, 4 errors
eric chavez - 164 total chances, 10 errors

joe crede - 27 years old
eric chavez - 27 years old (turns 28 two days before i turn 21 in this upcoming december)

joe crede - 2005 salary, $400,000
eric chavez - 2005 salary, $8,500,000 ($46.5 mill over 5 years remaining on contract)


do you really want to make this guy you're only acquisition? because his salary would handicap the team and not allow them to make any other moves. and i know he's done some great things in the past, but we don't care about that, we want a winner right NOW who is playing like a winner.

and besides, doesn't kenny williams despise billy beane and thus them two talking trade would be a little tough? if this trade (crede/mccarthy for chavez) goes down, my initial reaction will be a very angry and disappointed one. but the fact that williams hates beane and the fact that williams loves mccarthy, i just don't see this happening at all. i hope i am right.

i have never heard anything about KW hating billy bean, but i agree with everything you say to a T. in fact, crede is more valuable than chavez just because of the fact that i am a completely biased sox fan. if we trade crede anytime soon, i will sh*t a brick

petergriffen
06-13-2005, 07:25 PM
Don't be sorry. Just understand that basing a comparison of Crede and Chavez on this years numbers alone is a horrible idea. And comparing players defensively solely based on errors is an equally bad idea.

If you think that trading for Chavez isn't the best idea, that's fine. You want to say that he's not worth his contact, fine. I disagree, but it's a valid argument. But don't try to justify the argument by saying that Crede is equal to Chavez.

man, you are so wrong. chavez is overrated as a mother ****er. in fact, i hate eric chavez. the a's suck. crede is not just equal to him, hes better.

samram
06-13-2005, 07:47 PM
man, you are so wrong. chavez is overrated as a mother fu*ker. in fact, i hate eric chavez. the a's suck. crede is not just equal to him, hes better.

I'm one of the bigger Crede supporters on these boards, and I think the Sox can win with him, but if you think he's better than Eric Chavez, you're delusional.

Also, trying to evade the language filters is just not a good idea.

Jjav829
06-13-2005, 08:27 PM
man, you are so wrong. chavez is overrated as a mother ****er. in fact, i hate eric chavez. the a's suck. crede is not just equal to him, hes better.

Wow, an intelligent opinion that is well supported. I can't argue against that.

I'm not sure if you're joking or just not very well informed. Also, don't evade the swear filter.