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View Full Version : Bonds Blasts Kittle for Calling Him a Racist


Unregistered
06-09-2005, 04:48 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-giants-bonds&prov=ap&type=lgns "Who is Kittle? How long did he play? He played in our league?'' Bonds said, lying on a clubhouse couch before Thursday's game against the Kansas City Royals (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/kan/). "Ha! Do you guys believe that? ... Do you guys know my life history a little bit? ... One, you insult my children, who are half-white.

"I was married to a woman who was white, so let's get real. I don't even know the guy. Tell him he's an ... idiot. Somebody said he wanted a piece of me. Tell him I'm at 24 Willie Mays Plaza and he can come get me anytime he wants to -- with pleasure. Don't insult my family.''

Chisox003
06-09-2005, 04:51 PM
:rolleyes:

EastCoastSoxFan
06-09-2005, 04:55 PM
I wonder what Matt Williams (the supposed key eyewitness) would have to say...

LongLiveFisk
06-09-2005, 04:56 PM
When did this allegedly occur? Was it recent or like 15 years ago? :?:

EastCoastSoxFan
06-09-2005, 04:57 PM
According to Kittle's book, 1993.

LongLiveFisk
06-09-2005, 04:58 PM
According to Kittle's book, 1993.

So do you think it's possible Bonds might really not remember this or is he just being a jag? Obviously, someone is b.s'ing, and Kittle doesn't seem the type.

Baby Fisk
06-09-2005, 04:59 PM
I believe Barry. Why would he ever lie about something? :rolleyes:

DVsoxfan
06-09-2005, 05:03 PM
What a loser

IlliniSox
06-09-2005, 05:06 PM
I believe Barry. Why would he ever lie about something? :rolleyes:

Baby Fisk beat me to it. Barry and his FIVEhead could tell the world that E = MC2 and only fourteen blindly loyal Giants fans would believe him.

Foulke You
06-09-2005, 05:10 PM
I believe Barry. Why would he ever lie about something? :rolleyes:
Exactly, who is the more credible witness here? Why would Kittle lie about something like that? Answer: He wouldn't.

Juice16
06-09-2005, 05:10 PM
How long has Kittie's book been out and now his comments about Bonds are finally surfacing in the main stream? If you don't know, Kittle said he had asked Bonds to sign some game worn jerseys that he paid for out of his pocket for his charity. Bonds told him he doesn't sign for white people. Matt Williams and Dusty Baker had to turn Kittle's attention away from him before trouble started. Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion that the media will protect Bonds on this matter and burry Kittle. What do you guys think?

maurice
06-09-2005, 05:12 PM
"Don't insult my family.''

:?: That's a "STRETCH," as Hawk would say.

Barry must be taking public relations lessons from Dusty. Lesson One: Hide behind your kids.

Then he makes a hollow threat to fight the guy? Kittle's from Gary. I bet he'd wipe the floor with Barroid.

Risk
06-09-2005, 05:15 PM
Here we go again.:rolleyes:


Risk

SaltyPretzel
06-09-2005, 05:44 PM
"Don't insult my family"

He's a pretty big family man for one that fools around with a mistress for several years.

Greg1983
06-09-2005, 05:50 PM
Everyone needs to have a look at this.

Personally, I'd believe Bonds said this rotten crap regardless of the source. But given that it is my boyhood idol and one of the truly good guys to ever wear a Sox uniform, case closed.

I have a degree in communications and I'm now an English teacher, and yet I cannot summon the words to describe my contempt for that pill-popping, swollen-headed, philandering, tax-dodging moron in Frisco.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2081489

I have to admit, though, it was cool and a little surreal to see Ron Kittle as a lead story on the ESPN web site.

Greg1983

steff
06-09-2005, 05:51 PM
So do you think it's possible Bonds might really not remember this or is he just being a jag? Obviously, someone is b.s'ing, and Kittle doesn't seem the type.


JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

Well.. actually I know he's lying as Barry has signed many things for the MLBPAA charity events, not to mention things for me.. and I'm white.

NonetheLoaiza
06-09-2005, 05:56 PM
Barry Bonds is the most ridiculous human being. His act is old and uncalled for.

TaylorStSox
06-09-2005, 05:58 PM
JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

I definitely think he's embellishing the truth.


BTW, Since when has the media ever backed Bonds on anything?

mike squires
06-09-2005, 06:00 PM
JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

Ah Steff, I used to have respect for you. It's obvious Kittle wrote this book for the few die hard Whitesox fans that would buy it. Kittle had nothing to gain by telling a lie. He would have wrote the book much sooner than this and would have used more paper and ink on the story. I gotta side with Kittle on this one. IT would be a good fight though. Maybe they can fight the undercard on Saturday...

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:04 PM
What does Kittle have to gain making that up and putting it in the book? He has a lot to lose if he was making it up. Bonds has brought up race before, many times. Before I ever heard about this, I thought Bonds had a problem with white people.

34 Inch Stick
06-09-2005, 06:06 PM
Now I am not a journalist, investigative reporter or other sundry member of the media but isn't the next step to ask Matt Williams and Dusty Baker if they recall the incident. In fact, shouldn't somebody have asked these two before asking Bonds. When Bonds denied it the media could have asked a follow up question about corroborating sources.

But who am I?

steff
06-09-2005, 06:06 PM
Ah Steff, I used to have respect for you. It's obvious Kittle wrote this book for the few die hard Whitesox fans that would buy it. Kittle had nothing to gain by telling a lie. He would have wrote the book much sooner than this and would have used more paper and ink on the story. I gotta side with Kittle on this one. IT would be a good fight though. Maybe they can fight the undercard on Saturday...


GMAB.. Ron's been running all over town whoring this book and plugging those benches of his. Kittle had nothing but publicity to gain by embellishing on this story.

You "used to" have respect for me.. :rolleyes:

TaylorStSox
06-09-2005, 06:06 PM
What does Kittle have to gain making that up and putting it in the book? He has a lot to lose if he was making it up. Bonds has brought up race before, many times. Before I ever heard about this, I thought Bonds had a problem with white people.

Ummmmm. For one.... selling more books? (0_o)

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:06 PM
This is how I picture it:

Bonds is getting ready for a game and in walks some guy that he (claims) doesn't know asking for a bunch of stuff to be signed. Bonds wants to be left alone, and because he's a total douche and in his element (the clubhouse, surrounded by Baker, etc.), he says something to the effect of "I don't sign for white people" to make this guy go away.

In the end I think it was more about Bonds not wanting to sign anything for some guy and being a dick about it. Somehow I sincerely doubt Barry Bonds has played years and years of professional baseball refusing to sign for white people and only NOW does it come out in public.

StillMissOzzie
06-09-2005, 06:07 PM
JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

Well.. actually I know he's lying as Barry has signed many things for the MLBPAA charity events, not to mention things for me.. and I'm white.

Just because Bonds signed stuff for you and MLBPAA charity events does not automatically mean Kittle is lying. Mutually exclusive events...

As someone else said, has anyone checked with Matt Williams, the other eyewitness? With some of the weird stuff Dusty Baker has said recently, his word means nothing. JMO

SMO
:gulp:

34 Inch Stick
06-09-2005, 06:08 PM
and I'm white.

Not after a long summer day spent in one of those tank tops in your picture.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:08 PM
Now I am not a journalist, investigative reporter or other sundry member of the media but isn't the next step to ask Matt Williams and Dusty Baker if they recall the incident. In fact, shouldn't somebody have asked these two before asking Bonds. When Bonds denied it the media could have asked a follow up question about corroborating sources.

But who am I?


Eh.. when it comes to BB it's kind of like how the media here in Chicago deals with Frank... report the dirtiest dirt first and fast.. then print the itty bitty "oops, we were wrong" on the last page of the classifieds 2 months later.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:09 PM
Ummmmm. For one.... selling more books? (0_o)

How will it sell more books? For one thing, if Bonds and all the witnesses said it is an outright lie, people would think the whole book was fiction and he wouldn't sell anything. I don't see how putting this incident in a book is going to make people run to the bookstore and buy it. I doubt it is even being sold nationally, except for the internet.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:10 PM
Just because Bonds signed stuff for you and MLBPAA charity events does not automatically mean Kittle is lying. Mutually exclusive events...

As someone else said, has anyone checked with Matt Williams, the other eyewitness? With some of the weird stuff Dusty Baker has said recently, his word means nothing. JMO

SMO
:gulp:


I'm not a member so he didn't sign the items for me.. he signed for items that were auctioned off there for the charities. The outings are during the year so active players can not attend. Barry has signed stuff several of the past years..

Although he signed for me when I met him 7 years ago.. again when I saw him 2 years later and he remembered my name, and every time I've seen him since. Nice guy.. IMO.

TaylorStSox
06-09-2005, 06:11 PM
How will it sell more books? For one thing, if Bonds and all the witnesses said it is an outright lie, people would think the whole book was fiction and he wouldn't sell anything. I don't see how putting this incident in a book is going to make people run to the bookstore and buy it. I doubt it is even being sold nationally, except for the internet.


Well, nobody knew about this book nationally. If the national media reports anything then the nation will know about the book. It's free promotion. Even if he sells 1000 more copies, then it's worth it.

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:11 PM
Now I am not a journalist, investigative reporter or other sundry member of the media but isn't the next step to ask Matt Williams and Dusty Baker if they recall the incident. In fact, shouldn't somebody have asked these two before asking Bonds. When Bonds denied it the media could have asked a follow up question about corroborating sources.

But who am I?HA! Right, Dusty is gonna really come forward with the truth on this one...
http://www.harrywalker.com/photos/Baker_Dusty.jpg
"Aww, C'mon Dude... Barry's a cool cat..."

steff
06-09-2005, 06:11 PM
Not after a long summer day spent in one of those tank tops in your picture.


LOL. :D: :redface:

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:14 PM
Well, nobody knew about this book nationally. If the national media reports anything then the nation will know about the book. It's free promotion. Even if he sells 1000 more copies, then it's worth it.

Not if it isn't true.

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:14 PM
How will it sell more books? For one thing, if Bonds and all the witnesses said it is an outright lie, people would think the whole book was fiction and he wouldn't sell anything. I don't see how putting this incident in a book is going to make people run to the bookstore and buy it. I doubt it is even being sold nationally, except for the internet.Right, Jose Canseco's book didn't sell a single copy for that reason. :cool:

TaylorStSox
06-09-2005, 06:14 PM
Let me say that I'm a huge Kittle fan. He was my favorite player on that 83 team. But, when people accuse others of racism, without any factual evidence whatsoever, I lose a bit of respect for them. This is JMO.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:15 PM
Right, Jose Conseco's book didn't sell a single copy because of that. :cool:

Jose Canseco didn't tell any lies either. Notice all the lawsuits that were to be filed haven't been.

TaylorStSox
06-09-2005, 06:15 PM
Not if it isn't true.

Like people have ever let the facts get in the way of a good read. Come on now guy! This is America.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:15 PM
Not if it isn't true.


Paaallleeaaaseeee.... Controversy sells 10 times better than the truth.

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:20 PM
Jose Canseco didn't tell any lies either. Notice all the lawsuits that were to be filed haven't been.Right, but everyone in baseball is SAYING that his book was all lies. That didn;t hurt the sales any.

Just like Bonds is SAYING that Kittle is lying, we'll probably never know the truth for certain - and if you don't think this hitting the headlines on ESPN and other news sources is helping sales of his book, you're crazy.

Again, I think Bonds is a giant douchebag - I'm just playing devil's advocate.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:21 PM
Like people have ever let the facts get in the way of a good read. Come on now guy! This is America.

I am saying I believe Kittle. It is my belief Kittle didn't write the book or use the story to become the #1 seller on the NYT list. Do you have proof that the story isn't true? Bonds already has proven himself a liar with his admitted use of the cream and the clear after denying it for years. He also has brought race into play numerous times. Maybe he isn't like that all the time, but he obviously can be moody and act like an ass. Perhaps Kittle caught him on one of those days.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:22 PM
Right, but everyone in baseball is SAYING that his book was all lies. That didn;t hurt the sales any.

Just like Bonds is SAYING that Kittle is lying, we'll probably never know the truth for certain - and if you don't think this hitting the headlines on ESPN and other news sources is helping sales of his book, you're crazy.

Again, I think Bonds is a giant douchebag - I'm just playing devil's advocate.

The story in the book has been out for weeks and its just hitting ESPN today. Its not going to do too much for sales.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:23 PM
The story in the book has been out for weeks and its just hitting ESPN today. Its not going to do too much for sales.

It's doing a lot more than it would be doing without it.

TaylorStSox
06-09-2005, 06:25 PM
I am saying I believe Kittle. It is my belief Kittle didn't write the book or use the story to become the #1 seller on the NYT list. Do you have proof that the story isn't true? Bonds already has proven himself a liar with his admitted use of the cream and the clear after denying it for years. He also has brought race into play numerous times. Maybe he isn't like that all the time, but he obviously can be moody and act like an ass. Perhaps Kittle caught him on one of those days.


Proving the truth is in Kittle's corner. Accusing people of such nonsense without any proof is classless. I'm disappointed Kittle would even bring it up without any evidence. Why not bring it up earlier? Bonds doesn't have to prove anything. It's like prosecuting a defendant with nothing but heresay evidence and putting the burden of proof on him. It's backwards logic.

Like I said, I like Kittle. I don't like Bonds.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:28 PM
It's doing a lot more than it would be doing without it.

Then how come it hasn't hit the mainstream media until today? And where's the proof it isn't true? Bonds is a known liar. Kittle is now a suspected one. I would love Kittle to take a lie detector test. You know if they ask Dusty, he's not going to remember anything like that. If they give Kittle a lie detector test, like Canseco was willing to take, albiet on pay-per view, and he passed would your opinion change?

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:28 PM
The story in the book has been out for weeks and its just hitting ESPN today. Its not going to do too much for sales.Are you serious? A book written for a very small audience all of the sudden is newsworthy for its comments about one of the biggest "villians" in sports today - so much that said villian has responded in the press to the allegations and even CHALLENGED THE AUTHOR TO A FIGHT, and that's not gonna pick up sales a bit?

Come on, man. :rolleyes:

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:31 PM
Proving the truth is in Kittle's corner. Accusing people of such nonsense without any proof is classless. I'm disappointed Kittle would even bring it up without any evidence. Why not bring it up earlier? Bonds doesn't have to prove anything. It's like prosecuting a defendant with nothing but heresay evidence and putting the burden of proof on him. It's backwards logic.

Like I said, I like Kittle. I don't like Bonds.


What kind of proof is he supposed to have? Was he supposed to bring a tape recorder with him to get some things signed? This isn't a criminal trial. Its a book. For the record, I don't like either of these guys.

AZChiSoxFan
06-09-2005, 06:32 PM
In the end I think it was more about Bonds not wanting to sign anything for some guy and being a dick about it. Somehow I sincerely doubt Barry Bonds has played years and years of professional baseball refusing to sign for white people and only NOW does it come out in public.

Fine. Maybe he has signed lots of things for white people, but that still doesn't mean he didn't make the comment.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:32 PM
Then how come it hasn't hit the mainstream media until today? And where's the proof it isn't true? Bonds is a known liar. Kittle is now a suspected one. I would love Kittle to take a lie detector test. You know if they ask Dusty, he's not going to remember anything like that. If they give Kittle a lie detector test, like Canseco was willing to take, albiet on pay-per view, and he passed would your opinion change?

This quote's been out for weeks so I don't really understand why you're saying it wasn't in the mainstream.. Barry's response just happened today.. but Kittle's been whoring the book talking about this incident for weeks.

Where's the proof it is true..??

My opinion about Barry wont change, no. In all reality I don't give a crap what he does in his professional life. He's been a friend to me and that's how I choose to base my opinion of him. I try not to make a habit of ****ting on people I don't know.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:33 PM
Are you serious? A book written for a very small audience all of the sudden is newsworthy for its comments about one of the biggest "villians" in sports today - so much that said villian has responded in the press to the allegations and even CHALLENGED THE AUTHOR TO A FIGHT, and that's not gonna pick up sales a bit?

Come on, man. :rolleyes:

Let me ask you this, what would Bonds gain if he admitted the story was true? Do you think, at least while he is an active player he would ever admit to this? Come on, man back at you.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:33 PM
Fine. Maybe he has signed lots of things for white people, but that still doesn't mean he didn't make the comment.


Oh... I'm sure he said something. However I'm sure Kittle is embellishing on what he did say.

AZChiSoxFan
06-09-2005, 06:36 PM
Let me say that I'm a huge Kittle fan. He was my favorite player on that 83 team. But, when people accuse others of racism, without any factual evidence whatsoever, I lose a bit of respect for them. This is JMO.

Well then I guess you have no respect for BB, because he's played the race card so many times it's hard to even keep track.

steff
06-09-2005, 06:37 PM
Well then I guess you have no respect for BB, because he's played the race card so many times it's hard to even keep track.

He already said he wasn't a Bonds fan.

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:43 PM
Let me ask you this, what would Bonds gain if he admitted the story was true? Do you think, at least while he is an active player he would ever admit to this? Come on, man back at you.Bonds would never admit the story was true, whether it was or not. As you stated, he would have nothing to gain either way. The point is, that NO ONE CARES whether or not it's true - it's gonna sell books.

And that's my entire argument: that this being a headline is going to be a very good thing for book sales. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that this story is questionable, or true or false has NOTHING to do with the fact that about 5 million more people know about this book today than did yesterday.

How many people outside of White Sox fans between the ages of 28 and 80 even knew Kittle WROTE a book? Now EVERYONE knows, and at least A FEW of those people are going to be interested enough in the story to buy Kittle's book.

Unregistered
06-09-2005, 06:45 PM
Fine. Maybe he has signed lots of things for white people, but that still doesn't mean he didn't make the comment.I'm not saying he didn't make the comment, I'm just saying that the comment could have been taken out of context. And given how abrasive Bonds is, that might have been his charming way of saying "leave me alone."

Baby Fisk
06-09-2005, 06:46 PM
WSIers knew about it... linky (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48140&highlight=totally+biased+book+review) :redface:

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:46 PM
Not enough to make up for the PR hit he would take if the story was proven to be false. It would make the guy accusing someone of being racist of being racist himself. Does anyone know of any stories or incidents of Ron Kittle being a racist?

AZChiSoxFan
06-09-2005, 06:48 PM
Oh... I'm sure he said something. However I'm sure Kittle is embellishing on what he did say.

This is just one of those situations in which everybody is going to believe what (or in this case, who) they want to believe. However, the fact that a publishing company, that could be subjected to a libel suit, is willing to stand behind Kittle's comment suggests to me who is lying.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 06:49 PM
I'm not saying he didn't make the comment, I'm just saying that the comment could have been taken out of context. And given how abrasive Bonds is, that might have been his charming way of saying "leave me alone."

I agree with this. However, if he really didn't mean it but said it, and didn't sign the things for Kittle, Kittle would not be in the wrong for taking it like he took it. I think I'm becoming Yogi Berra.

32nd&Wallace
06-09-2005, 06:54 PM
JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

Well.. actually I know he's lying as Barry has signed many things for the MLBPAA charity events, not to mention things for me.. and I'm white. Bonds has been the biggest star in baseball for almost 20 years, odds are good that he probably has signed things for white people. Does not at all discount Kittle's story that he actually said those words.

32nd&Wallace
06-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Len Berman in a NYC based broadcaster who said a few years ago that when the Giants came to play the Mets at Shea a college intern approached Bonds. He may have calle dhim Mr. Bonds and requested an interview. Bonds told the kid that if he didn't turn that camera off he would slit his throat.

So nothing about Bonds would shock me.

dickallen15
06-09-2005, 07:20 PM
The funny thing is its not the story in the book that is causing it to become a sort of national story, its Bonds reaction to it. It appears that either most of the media wasn't informed about the book or they just figured it was a routine Bonds story. He has been known not be the easiest guy to be around.

pudge
06-09-2005, 07:29 PM
He's been a friend to me and that's how I choose to base my opinion of him.

That's certainly fine, but I can think of sooo many people who have been great to me, yet complete a-holes to other people. And just because I was lucky enough for them to be nice to me, they were still unfortunately flawed people.

Having said that, I doubt Kittle is blameless in this situation.

Jerko
06-09-2005, 07:30 PM
Bonds probably has signed stuff for white people, he just didn't do it knowingly.I think he just didn't want to be bothered that day and I think he said it. He could have been joking too and Kittle ran with it. Who knows, or cares really?

mccoydp
06-09-2005, 07:36 PM
* sigh *

Nothing Barry Bonds says these days surprises me.

I want Mags back
06-09-2005, 08:58 PM
Barry Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3918) blasted former White Sox slugger Ron Kittle, whose recently released book quotes the San Francisco Giants (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sfo) star as saying "I don't sign for white people" before a game at Wrigley Field 12 years ago.

"Who is Kittle? How long did he play? He played in our league?" Bonds said, lying on a clubhouse couch before Thursday's game against the Royals. "Ha! Do you guys believe that? ... Do you guys know my life history a little bit? ... One, you insult my children, who are half-white.

"I was married to a woman who was white, so let's get real. I don't even know the guy. Tell him he's an ... idiot. Somebody said he wanted a piece of me. Tell him I'm at 24 Willie Mays Plaza and he can come get me anytime he wants to -- with pleasure. Don't insult my family."

In Kittle's book, "Tales from the White Sox Dugout," he writes that he approached Bonds at his locker in the visitors' clubhouse at Wrigley Field about autographing some jerseys to be auctioned for a cancer charity. Kittle retired after the 1991 season, and Bonds and the Giants were in Chicago to face the Cubs.

"It's the truth. I don't lie," Kittle told The Associated Press in a phone interview Tuesday. "I tell it as it is. It's unfortunate it happened. And I didn't bring it up to sell the books."

Kittle said the book's co-author, Bob Logan, asked him to write about the good and bad aspects of the game.

"This was one of the rotten things that happened," Kittle said.
Come on, who r we gonna believe. Bonds. Kittle is a class act and would not make up a story like that to attract attention. Bonds is a *******, we all know it. I'm assuming 1991 was before his marriage to a white lady, so it's not insulting his family. I personally just finally bought the book, and can't wait to see what else Kits had to say

bobwsx
06-09-2005, 09:02 PM
i believe kittie!!!he's a stand up guy and bonds is a@#hole!!!

JohnBasedowYoda
06-09-2005, 09:49 PM
JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

Well.. actually I know he's lying as Barry has signed many things for the MLBPAA charity events, not to mention things for me.. and I'm white.


i remember bonds saying either last season or the season before last that he only wanted to break ruth's hr record because he's white.

StockdaleForVeep
06-09-2005, 10:08 PM
Roids do have a amnesiac effect on the brain i think

Lip Man 1
06-09-2005, 10:10 PM
I don't know Barry Bonds...have never met him or tried to interview him.

My only relationship with Ron is that fact that we conversed for a few hours for his WSI Interview and a few e-mails from time to time.

Personally I believe Kittle even though I don't know him that well. I base that on his 'stand-up' honesty during his Sox career as well as the way he was raised by his parents.

Unless Ron is a brilliant actor, I think he's telling the truth.

Lip

mike squires
06-09-2005, 10:14 PM
Has this story been on ESPN (sportscenter) yet?

Brian26
06-09-2005, 10:18 PM
JMO.. but I think Kittle is lying.

Well.. actually I know he's lying as Barry has signed many things for the MLBPAA charity events, not to mention things for me.. and I'm white.

Yes, you are white, but you also have boobs. The quote in Kitty's book, I believe is this:

Bonds: "Get away from me cracker. I don't sign stuff for white people....unless they have boobs."

I think that solves everything.

In all seriousness, I have to say I'm a little disappointed in the book. There are some decent stories in there, and I love the talk about some of the trades that didn't happen. However, the book is one of the most poorly written pieces I've ever seen. There's absolutely no structure to it whatsoever. Several...actually MANY of Kittle's stories are repeated twice (and sometimes even three times). There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the chronological order of the stories. Because everything is out of order, several items are repeated. It's strange. Kittle will tell a story or a thought on one page, and on the next page, under a different heading, he'll say the same thing but in a different way. It's like Bob Logan just threw all of this stuff together to fill up the 180 pages and never took the time to edit out stuff that was repeated.

CubsSuckMySox
06-09-2005, 10:18 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-giants-bonds&prov=ap&type=lgns


Hahaha, I'm on my way Barry, and I've got eggs and toilet paper with your house's name on it!


Blow hard.

Brian26
06-09-2005, 10:22 PM
Unless Ron is a brilliant actor, I think he's telling the truth.

Lip

There's no reason for Kittle to lie. Yes, he might sell more books if there's a controversial story, but Kittle donates so much to charity that I don't question his morals or his heart. Whether the extra sales were going to the charity or to his pocket, there's no way you can question him in this way. A man that does so much good for the community would not risk his reputation and everything he's worked so hard for on something so silly.

mike squires
06-09-2005, 10:23 PM
Yes, I agree the book is poorly put together. It's a decent read and I liked it cause it was quick. I don't have a lot of patience when it comes to reading books. I'm thinking there were a lot of other juicy stories could have said but he wanted to keep it good natured. I'm glad I have it just for the cover. It looks good on my shelf next to my Comiskey seat back and some other 83 stuff.

LongLiveFisk
06-09-2005, 10:32 PM
Not that I'm calling Kittle a liar (I've never met either man even once) but my only thing here is that it does seem a little strange that this was from way back in '93. When I first heard this story I just figured it was recent. I mean, if someone in a position like that pissed me off that much I think I'd want to leak it ASAP...I'd want everyone to know what a jag they were right away. Any idea why Kittle didn't mention this sooner? (Just curious).

Hitmen77
06-09-2005, 10:40 PM
By the way,

Richard Roeper wrote about this a few days ago:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep06.html

Bisco Stu
06-09-2005, 10:40 PM
Not sure if this has been addressed on WSI, but on the Razor & Mr T show today, they discussed how Bonds has said that "My kids are half-white, my ex-wife is white."

Brian26
06-09-2005, 10:45 PM
Not sure if this has been addressed on WSI, but on the Razor & Mr T show today, they discussed how Bonds has said that "My kids are half-white, my ex-wife is white."

Like I said before, "white people with boobs" don't count for Bonds. Take it to the bank.

Steelrod
06-09-2005, 10:51 PM
Not sure if this has been addressed on WSI, but on the Razor & Mr T show today, they discussed how Bonds has said that "My kids are half-white, my ex-wife is white."

This only proves that he sleeps with white women, not that he'll sign for them!

TornLabrum
06-09-2005, 11:16 PM
To me the key thing here is what Barry didn't say. He didn't say, "Tell him he's a ...liar." He said, "Tell him he's an...idiot." Notice that not once in the part of his tirade quoted, did he ever say Kittle was lying.

steff
06-09-2005, 11:51 PM
The funny thing is its not the story in the book that is causing it to become a sort of national story, its Bonds reaction to it. It appears that either most of the media wasn't informed about the book or they just figured it was a routine Bonds story. He has been known not be the easiest guy to be around.

I don't know where you've been but it was on ESPN weeks ago..

South Side
06-09-2005, 11:58 PM
To me the key thing here is what Barry didn't say. He didn't say, "Tell him he's a ...liar." He said, "Tell him he's an...idiot." Notice that not once in the part of his tirade quoted, did he ever say Kittle was lying.

They addressed Bonds comments on Sports Nite and Kittle issued a statement saying just that. Bonds doesn't deny it.

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 12:05 AM
This is how I picture it:

Bonds is getting ready for a game and in walks some guy that he (claims) doesn't know asking for a bunch of stuff to be signed. Bonds wants to be left alone, and because he's a total douche and in his element (the clubhouse, surrounded by Baker, etc.), he says something to the effect of "I don't sign for white people" to make this guy go away.

In the end I think it was more about Bonds not wanting to sign anything for some guy and being a dick about it. Somehow I sincerely doubt Barry Bonds has played years and years of professional baseball refusing to sign for white people and only NOW does it come out in public.

This is far too rational a post for this topic, if not this thread. It would explain both Kittle's story and Bonds's reaction. Have you thought of using Occam's Razor for your WSI handle?

steff
06-10-2005, 12:05 AM
To me the key thing here is what Barry didn't say. He didn't say, "Tell him he's a ...liar." He said, "Tell him he's an...idiot." Notice that not once in the part of his tirade quoted, did he ever say Kittle was lying.


Of course not.. because he probably can't remember what rude thing he said that day.. :D:

And I'm sure he did say something rude.. at least the Barry we've come to know the past 5 years anyway.. was Barry this way 12 years ago.. don't know.. didn't know him then, so I can't say.

JMO.. Ron is milking it making it worse that it really was.

steff
06-10-2005, 12:07 AM
i believe kittie!!!he's a stand up guy and bonds is a@#hole!!!


Just curious.. what did he do to you?

TornLabrum
06-10-2005, 12:09 AM
They addressed Bonds comments on Sports Nite and Kittle issued a statement saying just that. Bonds doesn't deny it.

Readers of the book (or even viewers of the movie) "All the President's Men" will recognize Bonds' statement as a non-denial denial.

mandmandm
06-10-2005, 12:09 AM
Not that I'm calling Kittle a liar (I've never met either man even once) but my only thing here is that it does seem a little strange that this was from way back in '93. When I first heard this story I just figured it was recent. I mean, if someone in a position like that pissed me off that much I think I'd want to leak it ASAP...I'd want everyone to know what a jag they were right away. Any idea why Kittle didn't mention this sooner? (Just curious).

Danny Mac on ESPN 1000 had mentioned that there was an incident that Kittle had an issue with Bonds that was told to Danny in private before the book came out. Go Sox!!!

santo=dorf
06-10-2005, 12:41 AM
Here's a story from the Yankee board.

I live in the bay area so I hear all kinds of Barry news, and he is just a truly disgusting human being. This may or may not be true but apparently he was in a circuit city up in San Carlos buying a new tv, and would only deal with a black salesman. They had to bring a guy from the home appliances department to sell him the tv because he was the only black guy working at the time. Then he was trying to get the TV for half price because he IS Barry Bonds. This may or may not be true, someone told me this in a bar, but it sounds consistent with everything else surrounding this guy. Either way, where there is smoke there is fire.

Dick Allen
06-10-2005, 01:00 AM
Clearly, Bonds has a track record of making racist comments. It would tend to make a logically minded person think Kittle is telling the truth. Maybe Bonds will just go away for good, and soon.

Nellie_Fox
06-10-2005, 03:13 AM
I am trained in interrogation. It's not flawless, of course, but Bonds' responses are classic "avoidance" responses. Never once does he say it's not true, or that Kittle is lying. It's all "why would I say something like that when I used to be married to a white woman" and "Kittle is a ***" kind of responses. Innocent people don't go looking for excuses; they just deny it.

Sorry Steff; he may have been good to you, but as has been pointed out, you're a good-looking white woman. Bonds has dragged race into many, many issues over the years. Every time he's criticized, no matter what, he blames it on racism. Bonds treats absolutely no one with respect unless he sees it as being to his advantage, but demands respect for himself.

steff
06-10-2005, 06:50 AM
Sorry Steff; he may have been good to you, but as has been pointed out, you're a good-looking white woman. Bonds has dragged race into many, many issues over the years. Every time he's criticized, no matter what, he blames it on racism. Bonds treats absolutely no one with respect unless he sees it as being to his advantage, but demands respect for himself.

So what's the excuse for him being nice to Jim..? Or any other men..? Or how about ugly females..?

Come on.. I am not defending Bonds.. he's been a ****, no argument there. But please.. 12 years later...? In all those 12 years with supposed witnesses no one else told the story..? Again.. I'm not saying something didn't happen, and I'd appreciate if you and the rest of you that are trying to imply that I am in someway defending Bonds would cut the ****.. but I choose to believe that Kittle is doing nothing more that whoring his book and stretttttttching the truth.

SOXPHILE
06-10-2005, 08:45 AM
Barry Bonds is a walking talking pile of excrement. I think the odds of what Kittle said being true are pretty good. Bonds has proven himself to be a liar when it comes to his steroids/human growth horomone use (grand jury testimony).
This is the same guy who during the 1994 strike, cried "poor" and asked to have his alimony payments to his ex-wife cut, because he had no income. How many times have we seen him be his usual arrogant, crabby self and treat reporters like something he's found underneath his shoe. He has also said that he wants to pass Babe Ruth because he's white, but not Hank Aaron. This guy is a festering sore on Major League Baseball, and a vile, wretched human being in general. The day he goes away will be a good one in the history of mankind.

dickallen15
06-10-2005, 08:52 AM
I don't know where you've been but it was on ESPN weeks ago..

Its wasn't much of a story until Bonds commented on it. If it was on ESPN weeks ago it sure didn't make many headlines until Bonds had a few weeks to come up with something to say about it.

The Racehorse
06-10-2005, 08:56 AM
Just another he said-he said argument exchange involving Barry Bonds... it's only the ten millionth time it's happened.

spawn
06-10-2005, 09:03 AM
OK, I've read every post in this thread, and some of the responses just leaves me extremely angry and ashamed at some of the people here. Barry Bonds has been an a-hole in the media, on the field, etc. Everyone knows this. But my issue is with Kittle. I've always been a fan of his. He's always been a stand up guy. But it pisses me off how most of you automatically jump to Kittle's defense and say he wouldn't make that story up, and yeah, Barry said it. If you're going to make accusations like that, you better damn well have the proof to back it up. If you don't, don't say a word. Especially in a book. And just from the reactions here, Kittle could easily make this up about the biggest villain in baseball and be believed.:angry: :angry:

1951Campbell
06-10-2005, 09:20 AM
Why would Kittle lie about something like that?

The easy retort is "to sell books."

Is Kitty lying? I don't know. Does Kitty have more credibility than Bonds? Yes.

Jerko
06-10-2005, 10:48 AM
I am trained in interrogation. It's not flawless, of course, but Bonds' responses are classic "avoidance" responses. Never once does he say it's not true, or that Kittle is lying. It's all "why would I say something like that when I used to be married to a white woman" and "Kittle is a ***" kind of responses. Innocent people don't go looking for excuses; they just deny it.

And that's the exact same M.O. that Bonds used when Van Slyke and Wendell stated their opinions about Bonds doing steroids. Never denied it, but "challenged" them to "come find me" and "say something to my face". Or his classic stand-by line "who is (insert name here). How long did he play" garbage. I'm sure he said something that day, but as I said earlier, Kittle may have overblown it.

Ol' No. 2
06-10-2005, 11:20 AM
And that's the exact same M.O. that Bonds used when Van Slyke and Wendell stated their opinions about Bonds doing steroids. Never denied it, but "challenged" them to "come find me" and "say something to my face". Or his classic stand-by line "who is (insert name here). How long did he play" garbage. I'm sure he said something that day, but as I said earlier, Kittle may have overblown it.This was supposed to have occurred in a crowded clubhouse, and there were many witnesses. Matt Williams is mentioned by name. I'm sure reporters are badgering him as we speak, but he may well just not comment.

EastCoastSoxFan
06-10-2005, 11:23 AM
OK, I've read every post in this thread, and some of the responses just leaves me extremely angry and ashamed at some of the people here. Barry Bonds has been an a-hole in the media, on the field, etc. Everyone knows this. But my issue is with Kittle. I've always been a fan of his. He's always been a stand up guy. But it pisses me off how most of you automatically jump to Kittle's defense and say he wouldn't make that story up, and yeah, Barry said it. If you're going to make accusations like that, you better damn well have the proof to back it up. If you don't, don't say a word. Especially in a book. And just from the reactions here, Kittle could easily make this up about the biggest villain in baseball and be believed.:angry: :angry:
I haven't read EVERY post in this thread, but I do know that Kittle claims to have several eyewitnesses, one of whom (Matt Williams) allegedly intervened to prevent the incident from escalating. So it seems to me that a simple phone call to Matt Williams for his version of the alleged incident would be everyone's best shot at getting relatively objective information...

EastCoastSoxFan
06-10-2005, 11:24 AM
lol, Ol' No.2 got his post in just before mine...

duke of dorwood
06-10-2005, 11:38 AM
What does Kittle have to gain making that up and putting it in the book? He has a lot to lose if he was making it up. Bonds has brought up race before, many times. Before I ever heard about this, I thought Bonds had a problem with white people.

He does-things he's said are way more abrasive, racially, than anything John Rocker said-how was Rocker treated by cause waving media?

Ol' No. 2
06-10-2005, 11:41 AM
lol, Ol' No.2 got his post in just before mine...There are two types of posters here, the quick and the double-posters.:redneck

Iguana775
06-10-2005, 11:45 AM
This was supposed to have occurred in a crowded clubhouse, and there were many witnesses. Matt Williams is mentioned by name. I'm sure reporters are badgering him as we speak, but he may well just not comment.

But that would require work on the part of the reporters.

Ol' No. 2
06-10-2005, 11:47 AM
But that would require work on the part of the reporters.One guy will do the work and everyone else will quote him as if they got the information on their own.

TDog
06-10-2005, 12:57 PM
Ron Kittle's book isn't about a Barry Bonds incident, but the allegation is consistent with dozens of stories I've heard from ex-teammates. He named a witness who can back him up to provide credibility. When I could listen to Ed Farmer, he used to talk about how much he disliked Barry Bonds. I have to wonder how he has responded on the air to the Kittle vs. Bonds story.

I am one of the MANY people fortunate enough to consider Ron a friend. He's a good man, a grounded man and "old school" in the respect that baseball literally saved him from the steel mills, where the jobs were diminishing anyway. I believe the incident happened exactly as Ron tells it.

As for Ron "whoring" his book, I haven't heard of any prostitutes who will give up any of their earnings to charity.

Frater Perdurabo
06-10-2005, 12:58 PM
:tomatoaward:

tomatoes at both Kittle and Bonds for slinging mud... :D:

Brian26
06-10-2005, 01:19 PM
As for Ron "whoring" his book, I haven't heard of any prostitutes who will give up any of their earnings to charity.

It's just a farce to think that Kittle would lie about this when the entire situation's origin centers around a charitable donation. Kittle is one of the most down-to-earth people you'll ever meet. There's no way Kittle would lie about this. No way.

nug0hs
06-10-2005, 01:20 PM
I'm not sure how many of you saw the report on ESPN.com, but this morning there was an article featuring some comments Barry Bonds made towards Ron Kittle and his reflection on an incident with Bonds in the early 90s.

Barry Bonds (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3918) blasted former White Sox slugger Ron Kittle, whose recently released book quotes the San Francisco Giants (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sfo) star as saying "I don't sign for white people" before a game at Wrigley Field 12 years ago.
"Who is Kittle? How long did he play? He played in our league?" Bonds said, lying on a clubhouse couch before Thursday's game against the Royals. "Ha! Do you guys believe that? ... Do you guys know my life history a little bit? ... One, you insult my children, who are half-white.

"I was married to a woman who was white, so let's get real. I don't even know the guy. Tell him he's an ... idiot. Somebody said he wanted a piece of me. Tell him I'm at 24 Willie Mays Plaza and he can come get me anytime he wants to -- with pleasure. Don't insult my family."

In Kittle's book, "Tales from the White Sox Dugout," he writes that he approached Bonds at his locker in the visitors' clubhouse at Wrigley Field about autographing some jerseys to be auctioned for a cancer charity. Kittle retired after the 1991 season, and Bonds and the Giants were in Chicago to face the Cubs.

"It's the truth. I don't lie," Kittle told The Associated Press in a phone interview Tuesday. "I tell it as it is. It's unfortunate it happened. And I didn't bring it up to sell the books."



The article can be found here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2081489

In this White Sox fan's opinion, this is just another example of Bonds whining about every instance his name gets brought up. He can't seem to just shut his mouth and let things go and it seems that everything is a huge issue for him. I guess its because the media ruined his life?:whiner:

steff
06-10-2005, 01:22 PM
As for Ron "whoring" his book, I haven't heard of any prostitutes who will give up any of their earnings to charity.




:whiner: :whiner:


I'm so sorry you don't like my analogy..

steff
06-10-2005, 01:24 PM
It's just a farce to think that Kittle would lie about this when the entire situation's origin centers around a charitable donation. Kittle is one of the most down-to-earth people you'll ever meet. There's no way Kittle would lie about this. No way.



GMAB Brian.. what does one have to do with the other.. nothing. Good for him he's giving the money to charity.. as he does so often.

It was an analogy.. a comparison.. a correlation of how he's all of a sudden out there promoting.

Good grief.. :tongue:

spawn
06-10-2005, 01:28 PM
Kittle is one of the most down-to-earth people you'll ever meet. There's no way Kittle would lie about this. No way.

I used to think my next door nieghbors were the All-American family...until the husband decided to cheat on his wife. I've learned to expect anything from anybody. Sure, it's possible that Bonds said that. but it's also possible that Kittle exaggerated the story as well.

Ron Karkovice
06-10-2005, 01:30 PM
Ha, this story was in the tribune this morning. My reaction was 1.) Barry Bonds is a POS, and 2.) It occured like 15 years ago so who cares.

TDog
06-10-2005, 01:31 PM
:whiner: :whiner:


I'm so sorry you don't like my analogy..

If you repeatedly want to compare a person with his own charitable foundation promoting a book or unique benches to someone selling sexual gratification for financial gain, it's a fairly lame analogy.

Obviously we disagree on the Kittle-Bonds thing.

steff
06-10-2005, 01:33 PM
Obviously we disagree on the Kittle-Bonds thing.


Which is typical when one can't see the field past the trees..

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-10-2005, 01:33 PM
I saw this last night on ESPN. Damn, Bonds is touchy - someone misses the limelight.


Good for Kittle for standing his ground.

steff
06-10-2005, 01:35 PM
If you repeatedly want to compare a person with his own charitable foundation promoting a book or unique benches to someone selling sexual gratification for financial gain, it's a fairly lame analogy.



Fairly lame to believe someone's version of something.. "just because".


Spawn.. excellent example ya got there.

Brian26
06-10-2005, 01:37 PM
I used to think my next door nieghbors were the All-American family...until the husband decided to cheat on his wife. I've learned to expect anything from anybody. Sure, it's possible that Bonds said that. but it's also possible that Kittle exaggerated the story as well.

Anything is possible. Let's start talking about track record and history though. You want to put percentages on it? I'd say 99% chance Kittle is telling the truth, and 1% chance he's lying. I'd change that to 1% chance "Bonds is telling the truth", but he really didn't deny the charges. All he did was call Kittle an idiot. And although Kittle is loopy sometimes and maybe really is an idiot, that doesn't mean he's a liar.

steff
06-10-2005, 01:40 PM
Anything is possible. Let's start talking about track record and history though. You want to put percentages on it? I'd say 99% chance Kittle is telling the truth, and 1% chance he's lying. I'd change that to 1% chance "Bonds is telling the truth", but he really didn't deny the charges. All he did was call Kittle an idiot. And although Kittle is loopy sometimes and maybe really is an idiot, that doesn't mean he's a liar.


Bri.. I don't think Ron is flat out lying.. but I do think he's made a mountian out of a molehill with this. Is Barry a jerk-off sometimes..? Absolutely. Did he probaly say something like this..? Likely. How Ron describes.. that's what I doubt.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-10-2005, 01:43 PM
I used to think my next door nieghbors were the All-American family...until the husband decided to cheat on his wife. I've learned to expect anything from anybody. Sure, it's possible that Bonds said that. but it's also possible that Kittle exaggerated the story as well.

Blah, blah, blah... "He said, she said." We'll know a lot more when (if) a third party comes forward to corroborate either Kittle's or Bonds' version of what happened. Both of them can't be telling the truth.

For now we can only go on past history on this subject. Bonds has injected race into any number of problems he has created for himself. As for his defense in this matter about his white ex-wife, he fails to also mention he has a WHITE MISTRESS who has publicly accused him of flat-out LYING about his knowledge of taking steroids -- yet another set of his whopper-sized stories you have to be incredibly gullible to believe.
:kukoo:

Marital infidelity? Good one, Spawn. You really nailed it with that silly analogy of yours!

:roflmao:

spawn
06-10-2005, 01:44 PM
Anything is possible. Let's start talking about track record and history though. You want to put percentages on it? I'd say 99% chance Kittle is telling the truth, and 1% chance he's lying. I'd change that to 1% chance "Bonds is telling the truth", but he really didn't deny the charges. All he did was call Kittle an idiot. And although Kittle is loopy sometimes and maybe really is an idiot, that doesn't mean he's a liar.
We all know Bond's track record. We all know he's an a-hole. That doesn't mean Kittle didn't exaggerate the story. You're all ready to crucify the man when no one posting here was even there. I'm not gonna join this lynch mob when I don't know fisthand what happened. And you want to talk about past records: why is Kittle bringing this up over a decade after it happened? If he's such a stand up guy like most here say he is, then why didn't he bring it to everyone's attention when it happened? You know why? He wasn't writing a book back then. As I said, maybe Bonds did say it. But don't doubt for a minute that Kittle is capable of making the whole story up.

Brian26
06-10-2005, 01:49 PM
We all know Bond's track record. We all know he's an a-hole. ......As I said, maybe Bonds did say it.

Thank you.

Bri.. I don't think Ron is flat out lying.. but I do think he's made a mountian out of a molehill with this. Is Barry a jerk-off sometimes..? Absolutely. Did he probaly say something like this..? Likely.

And thank you.

:D:

TDog
06-10-2005, 01:53 PM
Fairly lame to believe someone's version of something.. "just because".


Spawn.. excellent example ya got there.


I don't recall using the words "just because." Certainly it isn't just because Kittle's version of the incident is consistent with other incidents involving Bonds that I believe it, or that I know Ron to be an honest man that I believe it or that he provides the name of someone else to corroborate his version of the story that I believe it. It isn't that this is one item in a book otherwise devoid of the scandal in an age where people expect scandalous books.

Maybe it is just because of everything.

At the same time, I wouldn't disbelieve Ron Kittle just because I've had some positive experiences with Barry Bonds.

seanpmurphy
06-10-2005, 01:54 PM
I saw this last night on ESPN. Damn, Bonds is touchy - someone misses the limelight.


Good for Kittle for standing his ground.:tealtutor:

steff
06-10-2005, 01:56 PM
I don't recall using the words "just because." Certainly it isn't just because Kittle's version of the incident is consistent with other incidents involving Bonds that I believe it, or that I know Ron to be an honest man that I believe it or that he provides the name of someone else to corroborate his version of the story that I believe it. It isn't that this is one item in a book otherwise devoid of the scandal in an age where people expect scandalous books.

Maybe it is just because of everything.

At the same time, I wouldn't disbelieve Ron Kittle just because I've had some positive experiences with Barry Bonds.


You believe him "just because" you know him and choose to believe him.. is that not correct?


Twilight Zone music in the distance.. :?:

Unregistered
06-10-2005, 02:14 PM
Anything is possible. Let's start talking about track record and history though. You want to put percentages on it? I'd say 99% chance Kittle is telling the truth, and 1% chance he's lying. I'd change that to 1% chance "Bonds is telling the truth", but he really didn't deny the charges. All he did was call Kittle an idiot. And although Kittle is loopy sometimes and maybe really is an idiot, that doesn't mean he's a liar.70% of statistics are made up on the spot. :redneck

Realist
06-10-2005, 02:37 PM
I just skimmed this thread and I don't know if anybody posted an audio link of Ron Kittle talking to Dan Patrick about this issue, but here it is:

Audio of Ron Kittle discussing Bonds (http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/radio?id=2075276&rate=56&format=wmp)

Madvora
06-10-2005, 04:49 PM
Whoa!

I checked out the Giants official message board and people are actually defending this guy...

"Does anyone really believe anything the media says about Bonds anymore? The first time I heard this, not only did I laugh at it, but it seemed like it was a joke. Who in their right mind would say that they dont sign autographs for white people? Kittles is a very sad man."

- I guess this guy thinks Kittle is part of "the media."


"kittle....white
bonds....black
whos the racist"

- Another brilliant argument

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-giants&msg=55664.1&ctx=0

fquaye149
06-10-2005, 05:05 PM
someone misses the limelight.


.

Someone misses the little square that says "teal"

spawn
06-10-2005, 05:20 PM
Whoa!

I checked out the Giants official message board and people are actually defending this guy...



You mean the same way people here are defending Kittle? Barry Bonds is a member of the San Fancisco Giants. Of course they're going to defend their home team's star player. Why are you surprised by this? Barry Bonds does have fans. Not everyone dislikes him.

AZChiSoxFan
06-10-2005, 05:27 PM
Of course not.. because he probably can't remember what rude thing he said that day.. :D:

And I'm sure he did say something rude.. at least the Barry we've come to know the past 5 years anyway.. was Barry this way 12 years ago.. don't know.. didn't know him then, so I can't say.

JMO.. Ron is milking it making it worse that it really was.

Steff, I'm curious about something. It's apparant from the tons of articles over the years that BB is not the world's best teammate. You seem to be OK with the guy. Yet you are also one of the many who dislike Konerko, claiming he's a bad teammate. What gives? In your mind, is it OK to be a bad teammate if you are the best player of your era, but not OK if you are just a pretty good/decent player? Not trying to hijack the thread, just curious.

AZChiSoxFan
06-10-2005, 05:37 PM
OK, I've read every post in this thread, and some of the responses just leaves me extremely angry and ashamed at some of the people here. Barry Bonds has been an a-hole in the media, on the field, etc. Everyone knows this. But my issue is with Kittle. I've always been a fan of his. He's always been a stand up guy. But it pisses me off how most of you automatically jump to Kittle's defense and say he wouldn't make that story up, and yeah, Barry said it. If you're going to make accusations like that, you better damn well have the proof to back it up. If you don't, don't say a word. Especially in a book. And just from the reactions here, Kittle could easily make this up about the biggest villain in baseball and be believed.:angry: :angry:

Look, it's really not that complicated. Whenever you have a he said, he said case (it's actually not even that, because as many have pointed out, BB never even denied the comment) one typically then looks at past incidents that may serve to reveal each party's character. With BB, there have been numerous incidents over the years. With Kittle, I have yet to hear of a bad one (not saying there aren't any, I just haven't heard of them). Also, I don't buy your statement about him being a villian and being believed just because this is a Sox fans' site. I've seen threads in which people refer to meeting X or Y player and recounting what a jerk they were, even though they played for the Sox.

AZChiSoxFan
06-10-2005, 05:47 PM
Fairly lame to believe someone's version of something.. "just because".




Yeah, that's totally different than choosing to believe someone, just because you've met him a few times, despite the tons of articles over the years that suggest that the real BB is a different person from the one you met.

AZChiSoxFan
06-10-2005, 05:51 PM
You believe him "just because" you know him and choose to believe him.. is that not correct?


Twilight Zone music in the distance.. :?:


:kukoo: Did you even read what TDOG wrote????????

South Side
06-10-2005, 05:52 PM
GMAB Brian.. what does one have to do with the other.. nothing. Good for him he's giving the money to charity.. as he does so often.

It was an analogy.. a comparison.. a correlation of how he's all of a sudden out there promoting.

Good grief.. :tongue:

One has nothing to do with the other? Please... Why would someone who devotes so much time to helping others waste their time targeting someone with lies? This situation calls for a little bit of common sense. Usually when one writes a book they don't intend for it to sit on their bookshelf alone, that's generally where promotion comes into play... it's a bad thing??

South Side
06-10-2005, 05:55 PM
For those of you who think Kittle exaggerated the situation, how do you see the situation actually occured?

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 06:06 PM
For those of you who think Kittle exaggerated the situation, how do you see the situation actually occured?

See post #24. I don't know if the poster thinks Kittle exaggerated the situation, but it's the most rational explanation I've read so far . . .

South Side
06-10-2005, 06:24 PM
See post #24. I don't know if the poster thinks Kittle exaggerated the situation, but it's the most rational explanation I've read so far . . .


Well obviously his comment isn't to be taken literally b/c he's signed for a caucasian once or twice in his career... but the fact that it was said at all is the problem. I don't see why Kittle is being villianized b/c he was asked to describe some bad experiences he encountered in his career and oh yeah, for promoting his book :rolleyes:. Bonds, a known liar and cheater or Kittle a man dedicating his time to helping children with cancer... how is this even being debated?

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 06:45 PM
Well obviously his comment isn't to be taken literally b/c he's signed for a caucasian once or twice in his career... but the fact that it was said at all is the problem. I don't see why Kittle is being villianized b/c he was asked to describe some bad experiences he encountered in his career and oh yeah, for promoting his book :rolleyes:. Bonds, a known liar and cheater or Kittle a man dedicating his time to helping children with cancer... how is this even being debated?

I wasn't picking an argument. I hope you didn't think I "villianized" (sic) Kittle. You asked for alternative explanations. I offered one. (Not mine; I'm not that smart). Beyond that, golly, Americans debating a racial issue? Whowouldathunkit?

South Side
06-10-2005, 06:55 PM
I wasn't picking an argument. I hope you didn't think I "villianized" (sic) Kittle. You asked for alternative explanations. I offered one. (Not mine; I'm not that smart). Beyond that, golly, Americans debating a racial issue? Whowouldathunkit?

No, I wasn't referring to you but this whole topic in general. Apparently I am not that smart either with my inability to spell! :redface:

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 07:09 PM
No, I wasn't referring to you

I don't go to football games because before every play the offense always huddles to talk about me. (What do you mean, I'm paranoid?)

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 07:28 PM
i remember bonds saying either last season or the season before last that he only wanted to break ruth's hr record because he's white.

This was the quote I've seen on that:

[/QUOTE]
Willie's number is always the one that I've strived for. And if it does happen, the only number I care about is Babe Ruth's. Because as a left-handed hitter, I wiped him out. That's it. And in the baseball world, Babe Ruth's everything, right? I got his slugging percentage and I'll take his home runs and that's it. Don't talk about him no more.
[/QUOTE]

I don't see "white" there, but I'll grant you the racial subtext (and maybe there's another quote I don't know about). I'll even grant the racial subtext of this quote is at least 80 percent bull****. Ruth's pitching abilities, in addition to his slugging abilities, convince me he was the greatest player of all time. (My standard: if nine clones of a player could beat nine clones of any other player. Nine Babe Ruths, IMHO, would beat a team of nine Barry Bondses.) But I don't think the racial subtext is 100 percent bull****, because Barry Bonds (and Willie Mays and Hank Aaron, for that matter) had to compete against types of players Ruth didn't in the pre-Jackie Robinson era.

steff
06-10-2005, 07:38 PM
Steff, I'm curious about something. It's apparant from the tons of articles over the years that BB is not the world's best teammate. You seem to be OK with the guy. Yet you are also one of the many who dislike Konerko, claiming he's a bad teammate. What gives? In your mind, is it OK to be a bad teammate if you are the best player of your era, but not OK if you are just a pretty good/decent player? Not trying to hijack the thread, just curious.



I'm OK with both of them off the field. Does that help any..?

steff
06-10-2005, 07:39 PM
Yeah, that's totally different than choosing to believe someone, just because you've met him a few times, despite the tons of articles over the years that suggest that the real BB is a different person from the one you met.


Comprehension problem today..? I don't believe Bonds didn't say something.. but I believe more that Kittle is milking it.

steff
06-10-2005, 07:41 PM
:kukoo: Did you even read what TDOG wrote????????


Yes, I did. Thanks for your concern.

steff
06-10-2005, 07:42 PM
One has nothing to do with the other? Please... Why would someone who devotes so much time to helping others waste their time targeting someone with lies? This situation calls for a little bit of common sense. Usually when one writes a book they don't intend for it to sit on their bookshelf alone, that's generally where promotion comes into play... it's a bad thing??



Ummm... I think you misunderstood what I was referring to as one having nothing to do with the other..

The Racehorse
06-10-2005, 07:53 PM
Steff just went back to back to back to back. :cool:

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 08:02 PM
Blah, blah, blah... "He said, she said." We'll know a lot more when (if) a third party comes forward to corroborate either Kittle's or Bonds' version of what happened. Both of them can't be telling the truth.

For now we can only go on past history on this subject. Bonds has injected race into any number of problems he has created for himself. As for his defense in this matter about his white ex-wife, he fails to also mention he has a WHITE MISTRESS who has publicly accused him of flat-out LYING about his knowledge of taking steroids -- yet another set of his whopper-sized stories you have to be incredibly gullible to believe.
:kukoo:

Marital infidelity? Good one, Spawn. You really nailed it with that silly analogy of yours!

:roflmao:

Geez, this post bothers me--more than it should, I know--probably because of the reference to Bonds's mistress, er, I mean, WHITE MISTRESS. Three thoughts:

(1) I'll take your word for it that "Bonds has injected race into any number of problems he has created for himself." I don't know enough about him to know of these other incidents. But I don't think it's fair to say Bonds injected race into this incident. He was asked about a racial incident reported by Kittle. Is he supposed to respond by citing his work with the Rotary? Or by citing an intimate relationship with a white person? If a black man were to accuse me (white) of something similar, then one of my reactions probably would be to cite amicable relationships I've had with black persons. Of course, I would also hope I were to address the specifics of the incident, as Bonds apparently didn't.

(2) So I don't think Bonds discussing his white (ex-?) wife (or WHITE WIFE?) is irrelevant. Bonds apparently interpreted the question as one challenging his racial attitudes. I don't think he was wrong to do so. And openly acknowledged intimate interracial relationships (in contrast, say, to those of a Strom Thurmond, which weren't openly acknowledged at the time) are pretty good evidence, at least to me, that somebody isn't a thorough racist. Again, if I had a black wife and interracial children, I might well cite this as evidence I'm not the racist implied by such an incident.

(3) By contrast, I don't think his mistress (or WHITE MISTRESS) is relevant. Are we to think that Bonds is lying because he doesn't openly discuss her? It takes a special class of cad to not only have a mistress but discuss her openly. Bonds may well qualify for that class, but I'll give him a break (maybe more than I should) for not discussing any of his white (or black or brown or red or yellow or green or blue or purple) mistresses.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-10-2005, 09:29 PM
Geez, this post bothers me--more than it should, I know--probably because of the reference to Bonds's mistress, er, I mean, WHITE MISTRESS...

Get a clue. This was about debunking Spawn's silly assertion that Bonds was at least as believable as Kittle with an incredibly stupid analogy about an All-American family he knows divorcing over marital infidelity -- the exact same thing Bonds is guilty of, too.

And I didn't describe Bonds's wife as white. He did. Bonds never described his mistress one way or another, but that's because he didn't know his lawyer, Spawn, would step into a steaming pile of rhetorical **** trying to defend him by bringing up marital infidelity.

In other words, go soak your head.

Johnny Mostil
06-10-2005, 09:45 PM
Get a clue. This was about debunking Spawn's silly assertion that Bonds was at least as believable as Kittle with an incredibly stupid analogy about an All-American family he knows divorcing over marital infidelity -- the exact same thing Bonds is guilty of, too.

And I didn't describe Bonds's wife as white. He did. Bonds never described his mistress one way or another, but that's because he didn't know his lawyer, Spawn, would step into a steaming pile of rhetorical **** trying to defend him by bringing up marital infidelity.

In other words, go soak your head.

Soak my head? Get a clue? Only if you draw the water for me and present the clue on a silver platter, sugar plum. You *did* describe his mistress as WHITE, didn't you? I assume you did so for some reason, maybe best known, and kept, to yourself . . .

PaleHoseGeorge
06-10-2005, 09:50 PM
Soak my head? Get a clue? Only if you draw the water for me and present the clue on a silver platter, sugar plum. You *did* describe his mistress as WHITE, didn't you? I assume you did so for some reason, maybe best known, and kept, to yourself . . .

Umm... because the issue of RACE was raised by Kittle and reinforced by Bonds talking about his white wife and white kids. He described them as white. He didn't say who else he was sleeping with. But apparently Bonds thinks it's important to talk about their skin color, right?

Maybe Spawn would like to elaborate since Bonds wouldn't be stupid enough to make such a silly analogy.

Is that better for you?

Wsoxmike59
06-10-2005, 10:47 PM
By the way,

Richard Roeper wrote about this a few days ago:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep06.html

Rich Roeper is my favorite columnist in the city....heck in the whole entire country!

It will come out one day that Bonds used steroids or human growth hormones during his playing days, and it will render all his accomplishments meaningless in most fans eyes.

shoota
06-10-2005, 11:43 PM
:whiner: :whiner:


I'm so sorry you don't like my analogy..

nice response.

shoota
06-10-2005, 11:45 PM
Ron Kittle's book isn't about a Barry Bonds incident, but the allegation is consistent with dozens of stories I've heard from ex-teammates. He named a witness who can back him up to provide credibility. When I could listen to Ed Farmer, he used to talk about how much he disliked Barry Bonds. I have to wonder how he has responded on the air to the Kittle vs. Bonds story.

I am one of the MANY people fortunate enough to consider Ron a friend. He's a good man, a grounded man and "old school" in the respect that baseball literally saved him from the steel mills, where the jobs were diminishing anyway. I believe the incident happened exactly as Ron tells it.

As for Ron "whoring" his book, I haven't heard of any prostitutes who will give up any of their earnings to charity.

It's just a farce to think that Kittle would lie about this when the entire situation's origin centers around a charitable donation. Kittle is one of the most down-to-earth people you'll ever meet. There's no way Kittle would lie about this. No way.


These two quotes pretty much sum it up.

TDog
06-11-2005, 03:27 AM
Yes, I did. Thanks for your concern.

Thanks for the clarification. Your response failed to hint at the possibility that you may have read my post.

The fact is, I would probably believe Ron Kittle's account 100 percent if I didn't know him, considering the totality of the circumstances, some of which I noted in the post you read. Barry Bonds doesn't even seem to be denying it happened.

steff
06-11-2005, 09:32 AM
nice response.


Thanks. I thought so.

steff
06-11-2005, 09:33 AM
Steff just went back to back to back to back. :cool:


LMAO.. I did didn't I.. :D:

steff
06-11-2005, 09:35 AM
Thanks for the clarification. Your response failed to hint at the possibility that you may have read my post.

The fact is, I would probably believe Ron Kittle's account 100 percent if I didn't know him, considering the totality of the circumstances, some of which I noted in the post you read. Barry Bonds doesn't even seem to be denying it happened.


Hmmm.. it did. Pretty clear to me... clearing up that you didn't actually use "just because" but that it's obviously a factor in why you choose to side with Ron on this issue..

Oh well.

D. TODD
06-11-2005, 01:48 PM
I have to agree with Bonds more then Kittle on this one. Kittle has openly spoke of his total disdain for Barry as a person. At best I believe Kittle embellished a sarcastic remark Bonds made to get Kittle away from him. Kittle presents this in a way that I find impossible to believe, that Bonds will not sign or have anything to do with white people. I think Kittle's hatred of Bonds led him to use his book as a way to attack Bonds. In my humble opinion "kitty" loses some credibility on this one.

TDog
06-11-2005, 05:00 PM
I have to agree with Bonds more then Kittle on this one. Kittle has openly spoke of his total disdain for Barry as a person. At best I believe Kittle embellished a sarcastic remark Bonds made to get Kittle away from him. Kittle presents this in a way that I find impossible to believe, that Bonds will not sign or have anything to do with white people. I think Kittle's hatred of Bonds led him to use his book as a way to attack Bonds. In my humble opinion "kitty" loses some credibility on this one.

Of course, it is possible that the reason Ron Kittle has spoken with disdain about Barry Bonds is because of this incident that hadn't been made public until now. And it isn't like Ron doesn't know clubhouse etiquette or the possibility that players can be moody or sarcastic. And it isn't like this is the first time he's asked players to sign things for his charity foundation. Countless former players have signed for Ron.

But if you would rather believe someone with a documented history of making racist statements, of being as offensive in his personal life as he is between the lines, that is totally up to you.

I just find it hard to believe that suddenly Bonds has so much credibility,

bunnybrief
06-11-2005, 10:55 PM
Interesting...this happened at Wrigley in the visitor's clubhouse, the story says.

hmmmmmm........

Brian26
06-11-2005, 11:36 PM
Interesting...this happened at Wrigley in the visitor's clubhouse, the story says.

hmmmmmm........

Do explain.

Bonds was with the Giants, an NL team. The only time the Giants would play in Chicago back then (years before interleague play) would have been at Wrigley. Kittle is from NW Indiana. What's so fishy?

maurice
06-14-2005, 03:25 PM
I don't know who said what. I wasn't there.

However, Roper makes a great point. If it was untrue, Bonds should have denied it instead of pulling a Dusty and hiding behind his kids. Besides, his credibility was pretty low to begin with.