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Gym Shoe
06-09-2005, 10:28 AM
Gentlemen, all this to-do about how great Ozzie is, how chemistry is wonderful, how we're winning because of a small ball mentality? It's all horse poop. The reason why this team is winning is that it has far superior pitching than the teams of the last 3 years. It's got barely anything to do with chemistry and defense, although a lot of you guys and the media act like it. We had fine defense for the past 3 years, maybe not the greatest, but not the worst by any means. Recall that last year we started guys like Felix Diaz, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart every 5 days out, while Schoenweis was the 4th starter? And we still played well until Frank and Maggs got hurt.

The stupid thing is, you can win with a lineup that bashes the ball. You just have to have some decent pitching to back it up. And the difference between this year and years past is night and day. So don't go attributing it to any other reason than the pitching, because it's just BS baseball cliche, then. The people that don't follow the White Sox used to claim all these things because they didn't watch them (ahem, ESPN). We've been up in the top 10 in defense in the league, at least, the last few seasons. They just needed a reason to conjure up as to why we weren't winning like the Twins, and it was BS. A lot of times we're doing just enough to win; this is great. Just win baby, just win.

Gym Shoe

ps - quit singing the praises of KW until he actually takes a team to the playoffs. He's done well, but he still has time to make trades ... if it holds up, I'll be the first to give him credit. When we actually have won something.

NonetheLoaiza
06-09-2005, 10:31 AM
To totally discount chemistry and defense as not being a factor this year is kind of goofy. Winning does not just happen because of one thing, it is a combination of things, and so far this year it appears the Sox have found the right combination that they have been looking for for a couple years now.

Irishsox1
06-09-2005, 10:38 AM
Winning in sports is never one thing, its a mixture of things. Yes, the pitching is the best its ever been in a long, long time, but chemisty is important when you play 162 games. Also important is the defense, the offense...oh, and a little bit of luck.

Mickster
06-09-2005, 11:01 AM
Gentlemen, all this to-do about how great Ozzie is, how chemistry is wonderful, how we're winning because of a small ball mentality? It's all horse poop. The reason why this team is winning is that it has far superior pitching than the teams of the last 3 years. It's got barely anything to do with chemistry and defense, although a lot of you guys and the media act like it. We had fine defense for the past 3 years, maybe not the greatest, but not the worst by any means. Recall that last year we started guys like Felix Diaz, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart every 5 days out, while Schoenweis was the 4th starter? And we still played well until Frank and Maggs got hurt.

The stupid thing is, you can win with a lineup that bashes the ball. You just have to have some decent pitching to back it up. And the difference between this year and years past is night and day. So don't go attributing it to any other reason than the pitching, because it's just BS baseball cliche, then. The people that don't follow the White Sox used to claim all these things because they didn't watch them (ahem, ESPN). We've been up in the top 10 in defense in the league, at least, the last few seasons. They just needed a reason to conjure up as to why we weren't winning like the Twins, and it was BS. A lot of times we're doing just enough to win; this is great. Just win baby, just win.

Gym Shoe

ps - quit singing the praises of KW until he actually takes a team to the playoffs. He's done well, but he still has time to make trades ... if it holds up, I'll be the first to give him credit. When we actually have won something.

Maybe it's just me but I really don't understand why this thread was started. If you were to take a poll, I bet that 95% of the people on this board would equate the Sox success in 2005 to their pitching. It seems like you are trying to convince us of that... :dunno:

skottyj242
06-09-2005, 11:03 AM
Don't mean to hijack the thread but didn't Schoenweis get the win against the Cubs the other day?

Jurr
06-09-2005, 11:33 AM
:mg: :wired: Don't mean to hijack the thread but didn't Schoenweis get the win against the Cubs the other day?
Wow. You absolutely killed us with that one. One of the most out of the blue comments ever.

skottyj242
06-09-2005, 11:37 AM
:mg: :wired:
Wow. You absolutely killed us with that one. One of the most out of the blue comments ever.

I wasn't meaning to kill anyone, I was asking a question, note the question mark and the end of the sentence. If you really think that by stating the above that I want Schoenweis back you're crazy.

Jurr
06-09-2005, 11:39 AM
I wasn't meaning to kill anyone, I was asking a question, note the question mark and the end of the sentence. If you really think that by stating the above that I want Schoenweis back you're crazy.
No. I just thought it was funny.
By the way, you don't want Schoney back? When he's healthy, he's lights out!!!!!!

White_Sock
06-09-2005, 11:53 AM
Originally quoted by Gym Shoe

Gentlemen, all this to-do about how great Ozzie is, how chemistry is wonderful, how we're winning because of a small ball mentality? It's all horse poop. The reason why this team is winning is that it has far superior pitching than the teams of the last 3 years. It's got barely anything to do with chemistry and defense, although a lot of you guys and the media act like it. We had fine defense for the past 3 years, maybe not the greatest, but not the worst by any means. Recall that last year we started guys like Felix Diaz, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart every 5 days out, while Schoenweis was the 4th starter? And we still played well until Frank and Maggs got hurt.

The stupid thing is, you can win with a lineup that bashes the ball. You just have to have some decent pitching to back it up. And the difference between this year and years past is night and day. So don't go attributing it to any other reason than the pitching, because it's just BS baseball cliche, then. The people that don't follow the White Sox used to claim all these things because they didn't watch them (ahem, ESPN). We've been up in the top 10 in defense in the league, at least, the last few seasons. They just needed a reason to conjure up as to why we weren't winning like the Twins, and it was BS. A lot of times we're doing just enough to win; this is great. Just win baby, just win.

Gym Shoe

ps - quit singing the praises of KW until he actually takes a team to the playoffs. He's done well, but he still has time to make trades ... if it holds up, I'll be the first to give him credit. When we actually have won something.

To say that chemistry and defense have barely anything to do with success is just assinine. To attribute the Sox success to one thing alone is rediculous. The kind of success the Sox have has taken all of the above. Their defense could have blown any one of those one-run victories with errors quicker than shingo can say "hi." Have you ever played baseball? Do you know what it's like to play with a bunch of whiners and arrogent bastards? It changes things whether you would like to think so or not. To say the the Sox's success comes soley from one aspect of the game is unintelligent sportstalk blab. Success in baseball takes such a harmony of things working together most of which the Sox have this year.

Jjav829
06-09-2005, 11:58 AM
Hey guys, can I start tomorrow's, "It's the pitching, stupid," thread?

Jurr
06-09-2005, 12:35 PM
Hey guys, can I start tomorrow's, "It's the pitching, stupid," thread?
Damn! Beat me to it! I got dibs for Saturday!

Gym Shoe
06-09-2005, 06:24 PM
To say that chemistry and defense have barely anything to do with success is just assinine. To attribute the Sox success to one thing alone is rediculous. The kind of success the Sox have has taken all of the above. Their defense could have blown any one of those one-run victories with errors quicker than shingo can say "hi." Have you ever played baseball? Do you know what it's like to play with a bunch of whiners and arrogent bastards? It changes things whether you would like to think so or not. To say the the Sox's success comes soley from one aspect of the game is unintelligent sportstalk blab. Success in baseball takes such a harmony of things working together most of which the Sox have this year.

Um, can you define chemistry enough to tell me it's more important than pitching? To say that pitching is at least 80% of baseball is "unintelligent sportstalk blab"? Ha!

I played baseball, yes, this is not an issue you should even bring up for people to defend. For all you know I may have played SEC baseball or little league. Do you think it's just a coincidence that in Vegas when they tried to bring down favorite lines in baseball to around 70% advantage in pitching the bettors took it right back up to 80%? It's definitely not. To say that the most important thing in baseball isn't pitching is actually the dumbest thing one can say. You don't even have to know baseball to know that. How ironic that you know less than someone who doesn't even know baseball. Hmm..

Gym

FarWestChicago
06-09-2005, 11:01 PM
Hey guys, can I start tomorrow's, "It's the pitching, stupid," thread?Crap!! I thought it was my turn to show my brilliance by starting the daily "It's the pitching, stupid" thread. :(:

chisoxfanatic
06-10-2005, 12:46 AM
Damn! Beat me to it! I got dibs for Saturday!

You've got dibs on Saturday...But I've got dibs for the rest of time post-Saturday. :cool:

ShoelessJoeS
06-10-2005, 12:51 AM
Gentlemen, all this to-do about how great Ozzie is, how chemistry is wonderful, how we're winning because of a small ball mentality? It's all horse poop. The reason why this team is winning is that it has far superior pitching than the teams of the last 3 years. It's got barely anything to do with chemistry and defense, although a lot of you guys and the media act like it. We had fine defense for the past 3 years, maybe not the greatest, but not the worst by any means. Recall that last year we started guys like Felix Diaz, Danny Wright, Josh Stewart every 5 days out, while Schoenweis was the 4th starter? And we still played well until Frank and Maggs got hurt.

The stupid thing is, you can win with a lineup that bashes the ball. You just have to have some decent pitching to back it up. And the difference between this year and years past is night and day. So don't go attributing it to any other reason than the pitching, because it's just BS baseball cliche, then. The people that don't follow the White Sox used to claim all these things because they didn't watch them (ahem, ESPN). We've been up in the top 10 in defense in the league, at least, the last few seasons. They just needed a reason to conjure up as to why we weren't winning like the Twins, and it was BS. A lot of times we're doing just enough to win; this is great. Just win baby, just win.

Gym Shoe

ps - quit singing the praises of KW until he actually takes a team to the playoffs. He's done well, but he still has time to make trades ... if it holds up, I'll be the first to give him credit. When we actually have won something.
how can you be serious with this thread. you are giving props to the pitching staff but you say dont give any credit to KW just yet. let me remind you he is the one who brought most of our pitching staff to chicago...whats the deal?

seanpmurphy
06-10-2005, 02:41 AM
Dude we all know the Sox are winning cause they made a deal with Satan, just like in the commercial.

I would post the pic but I'm too lazy. This thread sucks. You can have the best pitching in the world, but without offense, you won't win. Example: Roger Clemens. It's yin and yang brother, a good balance of everything is essential.

Gym Shoe
06-10-2005, 11:09 AM
Last I did my math, 80% of one thing and 20% the rest isn't balance. And my point was, by the way, that we had plenty of offense in the past. So I don't know why you're bringing offense up. And by the way boys, we haven't won anything yet ... so just wait, then dish out the credit.

Mickster
06-10-2005, 11:31 AM
Last I did my math, 80% of one thing and 20% the rest isn't balance. And my point was, by the way, that we had plenty of offense in the past. So I don't know why you're bringing offense up. And by the way boys, we haven't won anything yet ... so just wait, then dish out the credit.

:?: :?: :?:

I'll give KW credit now for assembling a team with the best record in baseball through the 1st 60 games and doing so with a $75M payroll. It's up to the players to preform at this point.

Frater Perdurabo
06-10-2005, 11:40 AM
Gym? What's a Gym?

Anyway, yes, the pitching has been the biggest part of their success. However, given the fact that Garland and Buehrle tend to allow a fair share of hit balls, the defense's importance is magnified. Of course the defense wouldn't be as important if the Sox had a starting staff full of strikeout pitchers, but the Sox have turned a significant number of double plays, and left side of the infield has been huge with that. The outfield also seems to have pretty good range, and Dye has been solid since his spate of RF errors earlier this year. Good fielding helps the pitchers because they know their defense to back them up. Garland can throw his sinker with confidence, and the rest of the staff knows they don't have to nibble around the corners because they know the fielders have their backs. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't underestimate the significance of the gloves this year.

Also, I'm becoming more pleased with the Sox offense. Yes, Coors field and Rockies pitching helps pad anyone's stats, but Rowand and Dye have been on an extended run for several weeks now. Even Konerko's improving. This too will help the starting pitchers even more to know the Sox lineup can bail them out if they struggle.

So yes, pitching still is the name of the game, but the gloves and the bats have helped the pitching in obvious and subtle ways, too.

Oh, a Gym! :D:

Gym Shoe
06-10-2005, 01:20 PM
agreed. I don't know how many times it takes me to say this, but I never argued that the defense this year (I think Uribe may be the best fielding shortstop in the league, definitely the most underrated, he's outstanding) and the new players had nothing to do with the winning. They have been great. All I meant was that all the other factors were there in other years, where, if we had this type of staff, we'd have won going away too.

In any case, go go Sox! I love watching this team win. While I believe I will be giving KW credit at season's end, there's no reason for me to give any credit now. Who cares about anything until we're in the playoffs.

G

JDub35
06-10-2005, 07:12 PM
Worst thread I have read in awhile...mercy.

FarWestChicago
06-10-2005, 09:48 PM
Worst thread I have read in awhile...mercy.While this thread is horrible and up with a root canal in terms of enjoyable experiences, this one (http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51751) is an even bigger assault on the ol' neurons.

balke
06-10-2005, 10:05 PM
As FWC said, we have pitchers that give up hits, and like the groundout. Pitching is our strong suit, Defense is an extension to that, it also is very strong. You know what else is big? Consistant scoring, which the Sox have had. Not only is the team as a whole balanced, but the individual parts are balanced.

We don't have two or 3 pitchers collecting all the wins, we have 5 pitchers who have been consistant. The Bullpen has a good closer, a dominant righty set-up man, and two good lefties. The hitting lineup has a great speedy leadoff man, the perfect #2 hitter, (with Frank) a good OBP+power #3, a Power #4, a power #5 and some decent hitters at the back end of the lineup.

They have good infielders coming on in late innings, and as relief. They have a good player in Everett who can take the field, and a great back-up catcher. The outfield has a lot of range, the infield plays great D. The catcher seems to call a great game, and has the confidence of his pitching staff. There's enough hitters now that a good batter will be able to pinch hit in many games this season.

Balance and depth are winnings games for the sox.