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View Full Version : Is the Bullpen Getting Thin?


FloridaSox
06-09-2005, 08:52 AM
Great quality at the top--Hermanson closing, Politte RH set-up man and Cotts LH set-up. But what after...Marte ailing, Vizcaino struggling and Shingo giving up homes like beer vendors passing out the beer.

Do we need another bullpen arm?

tschneid83
06-09-2005, 09:31 AM
Great quality at the top--Hermanson closing, Politte RH set-up man and Cotts LH set-up. But what after...Marte ailing, Vizcaino struggling and Shingo giving up homes like beer vendors passing out the beer.

Do we need another bullpen arm?

I think that something needs to happen sometime soon. Either make a trade or send some people down. I really dont care what happens but we need to maintain a healthy and strong bullpen. I dont want this to become a problem later in the year. We are doing fine now but Cliff, Dustin, and Cotts can only throw so much. The reason i lean towards sending people down to get back on track is that i dont see us being able to make a trade with us only giving up one player for one player of another team and well i like this team so i dont want to give anyone up.

Irishsox1
06-09-2005, 09:33 AM
If the Sox could get anything for the pen, I would say it would be a great lefty. But other than that, the pen is a lot stronger than other teams.

PatK
06-09-2005, 09:35 AM
I'm going to be an optimistic fan this season and not worry.

I have confidence that Marte and Shingo will get their control back. Politte and Cotts have been pitching well, and we all know about Dustin.

As long as we can continue to have the pitchers go 6+ innings, I don't think we should worry.

tschneid83
06-09-2005, 09:35 AM
If the Sox could get anything for the pen, I would say it would be a great lefty. But other than that, the pen is a lot stronger than other teams.

That is a good point we do have a very strong bullpen compared to other teams. We have a great lefty in the works in Cotts so marte can become the 2nd lefty (he will come around).

elrod
06-09-2005, 09:57 AM
Not many teams use more than 3 or 4 bullpen arms on a regular basis. So we have Dustin, Politte, Cotts and Marte that we can rely on most of the time. The Twins have Nathan, Crain, Romero and Roidboy. After that we have Viz, who's been a disappointment but should be able to turn it around, while the Twins have old Sox farm hand Guerrier. At the bottom we have Shingo - who was lights out last year, and could find his control again, while the Twins have Mulholland. Any way you look at it, our bullpen is not light. There are pitchers who are hot and cold. Who would put Cotts in the safe category until a week or so ago? But that's how it happens. Roid boy is starting to struggle in Minny, so maybe Guerrier will fill in more. Crain is their Politte (and better). Nathan is Dustin. Romero is Cotts or, when he's back on, Marte. Oh, and the Twins have the best bullpen in baseball.

The real issue is how long our starters go. If we can regularly get 6+ to 7 innings out of our starters then our bullpen is fine. If our starters are struggling to get through five innings then we have a bigger problem because there aren't many, outside Cotts, who I have confidence can throw multiple innings in relief.

Jurr
06-09-2005, 10:47 AM
I believe that after Jon Adkins and Rick White left, the bullpen HAS gotten thin. Shingo, Marte, Cotts, and Vizcaino all need to beef up a bit. Your thoughts?

Jjav829
06-09-2005, 10:54 AM
Not many teams use more than 3 or 4 bullpen arms on a regular basis. So we have Dustin, Politte, Cotts and Marte that we can rely on most of the time. The Twins have Nathan, Crain, Romero and Roidboy. After that we have Viz, who's been a disappointment but should be able to turn it around, while the Twins have old Sox farm hand Guerrier. At the bottom we have Shingo - who was lights out last year, and could find his control again, while the Twins have Mulholland. Any way you look at it, our bullpen is not light. There are pitchers who are hot and cold. Who would put Cotts in the safe category until a week or so ago? But that's how it happens. Roid boy is starting to struggle in Minny, so maybe Guerrier will fill in more. Crain is their Politte (and better). Nathan is Dustin. Romero is Cotts or, when he's back on, Marte. Oh, and the Twins have the best bullpen in baseball.

The real issue is how long our starters go. If we can regularly get 6+ to 7 innings out of our starters then our bullpen is fine. If our starters are struggling to get through five innings then we have a bigger problem because there aren't many, outside Cotts, who I have confidence can throw multiple innings in relief.

I don't think this line of thinking. Just because no one else has more than 3 or 4 good arms that they use regularly, why do we have to follow them? We can be different and go get a 5th quality arm that we can count on. It would make us a better team.

1951Campbell
06-09-2005, 10:58 AM
I don't think this line of thinking. Just because no one else has more than 3 or 4 good arms that they use regularly, why do we have to follow them? We can be different and go get a 5th quality arm that we can count on. It would make us a better team.

Agrred. And then the question becomes "what foolish GM can we get to take the Vizz?"

White Sox Josh
06-09-2005, 12:03 PM
What about trading Vizcaino for Derek Lee!:rolleyes::tongue:

balke
06-09-2005, 12:06 PM
Its admirable he wants to be a starter, but I say just pull up Adkins for a while if Marte is down. He looked pretty decent last season, we also have Bejanaro or however you spell it. That's only if Marte is hurt and didn't just say he was hurt so he could be pulled right away.

lowesox
06-09-2005, 12:10 PM
If anything, I'd like to see another closer come in who could work the 8th for us so that we could use Politte in earlier situations. I'm really not that concerned though, since I think Marte and Viz are going to bounce back and soon.

A lot of us were very suspicious of Dye for a long time. I think Vizquaino is going to be the next White Sox to get hot.

White Sox Josh
06-09-2005, 12:10 PM
Seriously though here is my take on the Bullpen. These are the grades that I would hand out so far.

A+ Hermanson: Has been much better than expected. Goes right after hitters and is fearless on the mound. Great addition

A+ Politte: He has improved so much. Attacks hitters with that 95-98 MPH fastball. has been dominant.

A Cotts: Really surprised me. Has replaced Marte as the LHP Set Up man. Us attacking hitters more and is not walking as many hitters.

B Marte: Was good to start the year however has started to get into one of those stretches where he walks hitters. has to attack hitters. He is probably now the LHP specialist.

C-/D+ Shingo: Has been up and down this year. He needs to throw 1st pitch strikes. He also needs to attack the hitters and stop nibling. His stuff is good enough to do so. He has started to throw more strikes his last couple outings.

D Vizcaino: He has been brutal this year. He can't throw strikes and this causes him to have to lay it right down the middle.

Frater Perdurabo
06-09-2005, 12:12 PM
If the Rangers do end up releasing Ryan Drese, I'd suggest the Sox take a look at him for a bullpen role. He was the Rangers' opening day starter this year but rapidly has fallen out of favor. He won 14 starts last year with a good sinker. I would think working with Cooper could get him straightened out. He'd be one of those low-risk, possibly high-reward guys.

Lip Man 1
06-09-2005, 12:13 PM
Yes...they need another quality bullpen arm.

Lip

gobears1987
06-10-2005, 08:48 AM
1 word: BAJENARU!

JB98
06-10-2005, 12:21 PM
1 word: BAJENARU!

I don't know. Baj had good AAA numbers last year too, but I was unimpressed during his September call-up. Maybe he'd do better the second time around, but I don't want to deal in maybes. I'd rather add a proven veteran, if we determine that we need another arm down there.

I'm satisfied with the two lefties. Cotts is throwing the ball better than he ever has in his White Sox career, and that's going to take some of the pressure off Marte. We've asked an awful lot of Damaso the last couple years, and maybe it's finally taken its toll. I think Marte will be OK, but we have to get away from these situations where he is called upon to pitch five times a week.

As for the righties, Hermanson and Politte are solid. We need someone to step up and help Cliff in that middle relief/set-up role. Maybe the answer comes from within. Maybe Shingo regains his form. Maybe Vizcainos steps up. I'm willing to give it another month. If we get to the All-Star break and Shingo and Viz are still struggling, it's time to add a RHP through a trade.

balke
06-10-2005, 12:45 PM
I don't know. Baj had good AAA numbers last year too, but I was unimpressed during his September call-up. Maybe he'd do better the second time around, but I don't want to deal in maybes. I'd rather add a proven veteran, if we determine that we need another arm down there.

I'm satisfied with the two lefties. Cotts is throwing the ball better than he ever has in his White Sox career, and that's going to take some of the pressure off Marte. We've asked an awful lot of Damaso the last couple years, and maybe it's finally taken its toll. I think Marte will be OK, but we have to get away from these situations where he is called upon to pitch five times a week.

As for the righties, Hermanson and Politte are solid. We need someone to step up and help Cliff in that middle relief/set-up role. Maybe the answer comes from within. Maybe Shingo regains his form. Maybe Vizcainos steps up. I'm willing to give it another month. If we get to the All-Star break and Shingo and Viz are still struggling, it's time to add a RHP through a trade.


Right now all I can think of is a playoff game going extra innings, us running through the bullpen, and being forced to bring in Viz. Yikes. SHingo I could at least tell myself"maybe he'll only give up one run." With Viz, I'd be thinking automatic run, with some insurance if it is the top of the inning.

seanpmurphy
06-10-2005, 01:07 PM
Right now all I can think of is a playoff game going extra innings, us running through the bullpen, and being forced to bring in Viz. Yikes. SHingo I could at least tell myself"maybe he'll only give up one run." With Viz, I'd be thinking automatic run, with some insurance if it is the top of the inning.

Is it me or does Viz make it a point to give up at least one run everytime he comes out? Ugh.

PAPChiSox729
06-10-2005, 01:16 PM
Is it me or does Viz make it a point to give up at least one run everytime he comes out? Ugh.

IIRC, he didn't do too bad last time out... Infact, he hasn't given up an ER his last 3 outings. That is a little encouraging.

shoota
06-10-2005, 03:14 PM
IIRC, he didn't do too bad last time out... Infact, he hasn't given up an ER his last 3 outings. That is a little encouraging.

I've noticed. I think I have slightly more confidence in Vizcaino than Takatsu right now. Though if someone is already on base when Viz comes in, I have no confidence in him.

Chisox003
06-10-2005, 03:35 PM
I've noticed. I think I have slightly more confidence in Vizcaino than Takatsu right now. Though if someone is already on base when Viz comes in, I have no confidence in him.

You're right, when Vizcaino comes in and inherits baserunners, he tends to struggle...Badly

But he isnt as bad as you would think judging from the way people talk about him on this site....(Viz the fiz=Worst name ever)....

He hasnt given up a run (of his own, anyway) in his last 4 outings, and besides that Cubs game (Popup HR, if you recall :angry: ), his only REAL bad outing is when Shingo blew the save against the Tribe and he was the only reliever left, on the 3rd game of the year!

He isnt that bad, his ERA is down to 5.60, but there is no doubt the pen needs to add another arm

elrod
06-10-2005, 03:46 PM
Viz is slowly improving. He's had other bad outings besides the Game Three extra inning meltdown. I don't really blame him for the Cubs HR because the pitch was well out of the zone and the wind carried it out. Just great hitting by Dubois. He was giving up about a run per inning before that game, and he gave up another run in the Ervin Santana game too. But since that game he has not allowed a run over 4 2/3 innings. His ERA dropped from 6.75 after the Anaheim loss to 5.60 now. He may have finally settled down, or he may have just gotten a bit lucky. I have more faith in him than I do Shingo at this point, though.

sircaffey1
06-10-2005, 04:12 PM
Viz's era wouldn't look so bad if he didn't have to take it on the chin early in the season when Ozzie ****ed the game up. What would his ere be excluding that one outing? Around 4.25? 4.00? Not bad for the last arm in the pen. I think Viz will come around some. Shingo, I'm not so sure about.